New Trailer Out

[Catwoman]

One thing I hope that happens is they're not chummy chummy buddy buddy at the end of this. It's their first round together, let that draw out a bit before you have them being close like in Public Enemies (which I love but is obviously deep into their relationship). I think this movie should (and probably will) end with them having something of a grudging respect and a realization that they're on the same side, but not exactly friends. That should come later. Make sense? lol.

Yes, it does make sense. Some comics I've read fit that description perfectly. In chapter three of the 1986 Man of Steel comic reboot, Superman comes looking for Batman with the intention of bringing him to the police, but he ends up working with Batman to stop a violent thief instead. Superman didn't quite appreciate Batman's way of doing things along the way, but the respect was there.



In the under-rated Batman & Superman: World's Finest (1999), Superman and Batman got off to a very tense start, where they didn't even begin to have a friendship until seven years after they met. Before that, they agreed to work together once a year on the anniversary where a friend of theirs got killed despite stopping his psychotic kidnapper. As you can see in the screenshot below, Superman was completely out of touch with what Batman is capable of and how dangerous Gotham City is. Much to our beloved Caped Crusader's annoyance.

Those were cool. I especially loved Batman's argument against being a public guy.

I guess at that point they wouldn't have known one another's identities but if they did I would have preferred how in private moments they call one another "Bruce" and "Clark."

[The Laughing Fish]

Wow, really? Guess I missed people saying that. Honestly most of the anti-MOS hysteria comes from butt-hurt fans of Donner and/or Reeve who are all mad because their version just went the way of the dodo. Their opposition is less about MOS and more about their personal preferences. At least in my observation.

I've been reading people giving their opinions on garbage dumps like Comic Book Movie and Superhero Hype. Although to be fair, I've noticed that more people on SH are beginning to appreciate MOS nowadays.

The most common complaint I've read from these forums is that Superman is too reactive, and never becomes his own man. And you know what is so funny about this? These people praise Batman Begins, despite the fact that the same criticism can easily be applied to that movie too! Of course, the same thing can certainly be said of Superman 78 too, but I notice that people love to compare MOS to BB because of Nolan and Goyer's involvement.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the criticisms toward Clark's reactive nature is fair because most of all live action media (never mind the comics I've read) never show him growing up with the intention to become a hero without any guidance from the Kents or his biological parents. In contrast, Bruce Wayne in BB doesn't become fully aware of how corrupt Gotham is until Rachel brought it up, and only begins a journey to explore the world of crime because Falcone taunted him that he'll never understand it. And from there, he ends up meeting Ra's al Ghul to train him and Lucius Fox much later.  To me, this is a massive departure of the comics because the original backstory was simple - Bruce swore an oath to fight crime in Gotham for the rest of his life to honour his dead parents; using his personal tragedy as a motivation to keep his city as safe as he can.

If you must play Batman and Superman as virtual adversaries, to me it makes sense to frame their conflict as an ideological clash. Heroes in the Marvel universe beat each other senseless all the time. But if it happens in the DC universe, there needs to be a cause for it. Looks like Snyder and co. have found one. I appreciate this.

Another common complaint I see from people is that they'd rather see a team-up movie more than a Dark Knight Returns-style beat-up. But I don't quite understand that either because the two will eventually team-up.

Those were cool. I especially loved Batman's argument against being a public guy.

I guess at that point they wouldn't have known one another's identities but if they did I would have preferred how in private moments they call one another "Bruce" and "Clark."

Right again. They didn't even know what their backstories were until four years later, when they stopped a gang from Metropolis trying to take over territory in Gotham, as well as dealing with the Metropolis-based vigilante Thorn, who wanted to kill the gangsters. When Batman mentioned his surprise that a "bright and sunny" place like Metropolis could create somebody as dark as Thorn, Superman assumes how anything tragic could have happened to make her vengeful and asks Batman if something like that happened to him too. Of course, Batman halfheartedly answers and suggests he might tell him the story one day. 

This is something I expect to see in Batman and Superman's friendship for this new DC film series. If not this upcoming film, it has to be somewhere down the line in the future.

[Edd Grayson]

I never had a big problem with MoS, actually. I don't think the "criticism" of the film on the internet is very objective.

I love the Chris. Reeve films, but I didn't expect or demand to see another Superman film like those. MoS worked well for me.

[thecolorsblend]

I've been reading people giving their opinions on garbage dumps like Comic Book Movie and Superhero Hype. Although to be fair, I've noticed that more people on SH are beginning to appreciate MOS nowadays.

I'm no expert on CBM but SHH is a known Singer suckfest site. Their core membership may have changed in the last ten years but in 2006 and 2007, they were one of the major pro-Singer Superman websites to be found anywhere. It eventually came out that a few members had conspired with a mod to provoke anti-Superman Returns types into a foaming rage, they'd do something ban-worthy and then the mod would dutifully ban them.

How petty is that? But it happened.

The most common complaint I've read from these forums is that Superman is too reactive, and never becomes his own man. And you know what is so funny about this? These people praise Batman Begins, despite the fact that the same criticism can easily be applied to that movie too! Of course, the same thing can certainly be said of Superman 78 too, but I notice that people love to compare MOS to BB because of Nolan and Goyer's involvement.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the criticisms toward Clark's reactive nature is fair because most of all live action media (never mind the comics I've read) never show him growing up with the intention to become a hero without any guidance from the Kents or his biological parents. In contrast, Bruce Wayne in BB doesn't become fully aware of how corrupt Gotham is until Rachel brought it up, and only begins a journey to explore the world of crime because Falcone taunted him that he'll never understand it. And from there, he ends up meeting Ra's al Ghul to train him and Lucius Fox much later.  To me, this is a massive departure of the comics because the original backstory was simple - Bruce swore an oath to fight crime in Gotham for the rest of his life to honour his dead parents; using his personal tragedy as a motivation to keep his city as safe as he can.

It's an incomprehensible criticism to begin with. Every character in every movie reacts to what's happening around them.

The entire thrust of MOS is Clark is operating on-the-sly so that he can use his powers to help without really and truly going public. That itself is action rather than reaction.

And S78 has all kinds of double standards going for it. For example, if ANY other version of Superman had this big, triumphal moment where Clark finally dons the full Superman outfit... and gets immediately interrupted and made fun of by a pimp, people would burn that thing in effigy. "But, dude, that's SUCH a classic moment from Superman- The Movie!" Indeed it is. But, again, no other adaptation of Superman would dare try something like that. Fans would riot. But S78 gets a free pass because something something Williams theme. It's just retarded.

Another common complaint I see from people is that they'd rather see a team-up movie more than a Dark Knight Returns-style beat-up. But I don't quite understand that either because the two will eventually team-up.

That, plus word 'round the water cooler is Superman wins the fight. It's only "close" because he doesn't really fight back much... just like in TDKR, where Superman worked Bruce into a heart attack while barely lifting a finger. It's a brief thing and the rest of the movie either builds up to that moment or moves on to something else after that moment. If that's true, I'm okay with it.

[The Laughing Fish]

I'm no expert on CBM but SHH is a known Singer suckfest site. Their core membership may have changed in the last ten years but in 2006 and 2007, they were one of the major pro-Singer Superman websites to be found anywhere. It eventually came out that a few members had conspired with a mod to provoke anti-Superman Returns types into a foaming rage, they'd do something ban-worthy and then the mod would dutifully ban them.

How petty is that? But it happened.

It does come across as a very cliquey forum. From what I've heard, Batman-On-Film is exactly the same.

Speaking of which, I heard that the head of BOF is now suddenly in favour of Batman co-starring in a Justice League film after spending a long time arguing against it. How convenient.

CBM is a place where man-children go and provoke each other by starting Marvel vs DC flame wars, make sexist remarks towards women and mistake their opinions as facts. They're the same trolls who think a movie is good because it grossed this amount of money at the BO, and how big its Rotten Tomatoes score is. Worse than SH. And that site was often cited in online articles when its members were making offensive remarks against Shailene Woodley for being cast as Mary-Jane in TASM2. Pigs.

It's an incomprehensible criticism to begin with. Every character in every movie reacts to what's happening around them.

Indeed.

The entire thrust of MOS is Clark is operating on-the-sly so that he can use his powers to help without really and truly going public. That itself is action rather than reaction.

The way you describe that reminds me of John Byrne's MOS mini-series. I recall a scene where the Kents used to keep a newspaper scrapbook archiving Clark's heroics around Smallville while he was keeping a low profile. Although unlike the film, the comic had Clark revealing himself to everyone in Metropolis when he rescued Lois from a crashing spaceship. The closest we got to that kind of scene in the film was Clark rescuing that group of oil rig workers, but it's not the same.

That, plus word 'round the water cooler is Superman wins the fight. It's only "close" because he doesn't really fight back much... just like in TDKR, where Superman worked Bruce into a heart attack while barely lifting a finger. It's a brief thing and the rest of the movie either builds up to that moment or moves on to something else after that moment. If that's true, I'm okay with it.

Interesting. We'll see if this is true. How will this go down with people? Will they complain that Superman is too powerful, or use that an excuse to attack Affleck's portrayal?

[thecolorsblend]

It does come across as a very cliquey forum. From what I've heard, Batman-On-Film is exactly the same.

Were I in a charitable mood, I'd let it go on the grounds that Jett isn't here to defend himself.

I'm not in a charitable mood.

Yeah, BOF is pretty much full of Jett's hangers-on and other lapdogs. It may have improved since the Nolan franchise ended... but I doubt it. That bunch bear a huge amount of responsibility for Nolan fans having such a lousy reputation online. If you don't mind a police state where you obey your Glorious Supreme Leader or else you'll get sent to a re-education center.

Around here if you're not a jerk Paul will probably leave you alone because he has better things to do.

It's just a completely different culture over there, dude. I don't recommend it. To anybody. Ever.

Speaking of which, I heard that the head of BOF is now suddenly in favour of Batman co-starring in a Justice League film after spending a long time arguing against it. How convenient.

Hadn't heard that, actually. Not surprising though. If there was a cause for which he wasn't willing to shill himself, I never heard of it.

Don't misunderstand me, in his place I'd sell out so fast it'd make your head spin. But what I wouldn't do is pretend I was an independent fansite anymore. He does. That's the difference.

Interesting. We'll see if this is true. How will this go down with people? Will they complain that Superman is too powerful, or use that an excuse to attack Affleck's portrayal?

Fault will be found. Lacking that it will be created. We both know this.

[Dagenspear]

Were I in a charitable mood, I'd let it go on the grounds that Jett isn't here to defend himself.

I'm not in a charitable mood.

Yeah, BOF is pretty much full of Jett's hangers-on and other lapdogs. It may have improved since the Nolan franchise ended... but I doubt it. That bunch bear a huge amount of responsibility for Nolan fans having such a lousy reputation online. If you don't mind a police state where you obey your Glorious Supreme Leader or else you'll get sent to a re-education center.

Around here if you're not a jerk Paul will probably leave you alone because he has better things to do.

It's just a completely different culture over there, dude. I don't recommend it. To anybody. Ever.

Every side of the fandom has their less than kind apples.

Fault will be found. Lacking that it will be created. We both know this.

I don't know what Affleck has to do with it. He didn't write the character that I know of.

It's an incomprehensible criticism to begin with. Every character in every movie reacts to what's happening around them.

The entire thrust of MOS is Clark is operating on-the-sly so that he can use his powers to help without really and truly going public. That itself is action rather than reaction.

And S78 has all kinds of double standards going for it. For example, if ANY other version of Superman had this big, triumphal moment where Clark finally dons the full Superman outfit... and gets immediately interrupted and made fun of by a pimp, people would burn that thing in effigy. "But, dude, that's SUCH a classic moment from Superman- The Movie!" Indeed it is. But, again, no other adaptation of Superman would dare try something like that. Fans would riot. But S78 gets a free pass because something something Williams theme. It's just retarded.

That's a little unkind, don't you think?

That, plus word 'round the water cooler is Superman wins the fight. It's only "close" because he doesn't really fight back much... just like in TDKR, where Superman worked Bruce into a heart attack while barely lifting a finger. It's a brief thing and the rest of the movie either builds up to that moment or moves on to something else after that moment. If that's true, I'm okay with it.

I'm not sure about the comic, but the impression I got from the movie was that that was faked.

One thing you can definitely noticed with Cavill's Clark Kent/Superman in the trailers is how assertive he is. He's not afraid to express his opinion about Batman being a pest.

The problem is that the guy who is complaining about Batman being scary in the trailer is also the guy that is a superpowered alien that fought another superpowered through alien through buildings, collapsing, but Batman is the the one who is scary because he brands criminals.

Wow, really? Guess I missed people saying that. Honestly most of the anti-MOS hysteria comes from butt-hurt fans of Donner and/or Reeve who are all mad because their version just went the way of the dodo. Their opposition is less about MOS and more about their personal preferences. At least in my observation.

I'm not really a fan of the Donner movies and I don't like MOS. I don't like it because the characters are either thinly written, driven by theme or both.

I've been reading people giving their opinions on garbage dumps like Comic Book Movie and Superhero Hype. Although to be fair, I've noticed that more people on SH are beginning to appreciate MOS nowadays.

The most common complaint I've read from these forums is that Superman is too reactive, and never becomes his own man. And you know what is so funny about this? These people praise Batman Begins, despite the fact that the same criticism can easily be applied to that movie too! Of course, the same thing can certainly be said of Superman 78 too, but I notice that people love to compare MOS to BB because of Nolan and Goyer's involvement.

Hardly. Bruce is active in the movie. He starts out without the desire to be a hero and reacts to what he's told. But his actions aren't based on what he's told to do, but what he's told he's not. Really, every character is reactive if you use that approach. Clark in MOS, though this isn't really a problem I have with the movie, seeks someone to tell him what he should do several times and does it. He becomes Superman because live action Jor-El AI#3 tells him to put on the suit and become that. He asks the priest what he should do and does what he tells him. Jor-El AI tells him how to defeat Zod and he does. Jonathan tells him not to save him and he doesn't. Even him killing Zod is something that happens because Zod refuses to stop otherwise. At least Batman made the choice the leave Ra's there, although it wasn't really a good thing to do. Clark isn't like this throughout the whole movie yes, but it's still something that happens a lot. But my problem is it's characters are either kinda bland and empty or make choices based on theme or both. Also, that the movie makes big deals about things and then doesn't pay them off.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the criticisms toward Clark's reactive nature is fair because most of all live action media (never mind the comics I've read) never show him growing up with the intention to become a hero without any guidance from the Kents or his biological parents. In contrast, Bruce Wayne in BB doesn't become fully aware of how corrupt Gotham is until Rachel brought it up, and only begins a journey to explore the world of crime because Falcone taunted him that he'll never understand it. And from there, he ends up meeting Ra's al Ghul to train him and Lucius Fox much later.  To me, this is a massive departure of the comics because the original backstory was simple - Bruce swore an oath to fight crime in Gotham for the rest of his life to honour his dead parents; using his personal tragedy as a motivation to keep his city as safe as he can.

And that's all good. It's not a big deal and presents an interesting idea for the character in the movie, where Bruce is more interested in revenge at first, but realizes at the end that that was wrong. Bruce had already had a lot of training. He already had a goal of fighting criminals though. Ra's just gave him the more fear based tactics theatrical approach he would use. The idea of being taunted about never understanding what it really means to be desperate is actually interesting. I like the idea of Bruce Wayne forcing himself to be a starving alone living on the streets thief so he could understand the kind of environment that creates criminals.

Another common complaint I see from people is that they'd rather see a team-up movie more than a Dark Knight Returns-style beat-up. But I don't quite understand that either because the two will eventually team-up.

I would prefer a team up without a beat up personally.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

[The Dark Knight]

To be completely honest, I haven't thought about Jett or BoF for a very long time.

I prefer this place, obviously, and Batman-News seems okay to me.

[Edd Grayson]

I only visit this forum and IMDb for Batman discussion, and I don't check the BvS board on the latter site.

And on Facebook there are other pages, but the opinions are quite divided and I've no real interest in joining another group. Needless to say I prefer Batman-Online.

[Catwoman]

Y'all make me glad I've never discovered this "other world" of fans lol. Everyone here, well, for the most part everyone here is really intelligent and fun to talk to. From the sounds of it I'd be banned in like 2 hours from BOF or whatever it's called.

I actually think I remember that site coming up in a discussion during the 20th anniversary celebration of the first Batman (which was when I first joined here) and I thought of going over there and doing my best annoying Ice Princess-type character impression just to be annoying and acting dumb. Which I did a lot of here too for a while since playing cutesy and dumb was more fun (at the time) than trying to be smart and intelligent and showing I knew what I was talking about. Which I think most of y'all probably still think I'm just cutesy and dumb and have no clue what I'm talking about. lol. I don't feel like I get taken very seriously, but that's another argument for another day.