BvS Video Essay - Allegory & Allusion

Started by The Laughing Fish, Wed, 9 Nov 2016, 04:35

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A couple of things I've noticed in the scene where Superman arrives at the Capitol building in front of an angry mob.



The two hateful signs in the bottom right corner resembles the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church, who are notorious for displaying hostile messages in black bold font with saturated colours. Like in the example above, most of their obscene slogans say "God hates [insert identity group here]".

There's also the pun on another discriminating banner saying "Superman = Illegal Alien". Which is quite fitting as Superman is a symbol of the immigrant story. One thing that MOS doesn't get enough credit for is alluding to the struggles a person may face when dealing with identity between their place of birth and their heritage, and the tension the immigrant feels when they're of the subject for discrimination is explored in BvS.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon,  9 Jul  2018, 12:28
A couple of things I've noticed in the scene where Superman arrives at the Capitol building in front of an angry mob.



The two hateful signs in the bottom right corner resembles the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church, who are notorious for displaying hostile messages in black bold font with saturated colours. Like in the example above, most of their obscene slogans say "God hates [insert identity group here]".

There's also the pun on another discriminating banner saying "Superman = Illegal Alien". Which is quite fitting as Superman is a symbol of the immigrant story. One thing that MOS doesn't get enough credit for is alluding to the struggles a person may face when dealing with identity between their place of birth and their heritage, and the tension the immigrant feels when they're of the subject for discrimination is explored in BvS.
I find this analogy flawed. I can only think of one type of immigrant who are famous for bringing destruction with them upon their arrival. I guess the major difference is they do it on purpose while the destruction involving Superman happened in spite of his best efforts.

Still, the bit with the mob is a little amusing. There's a reaction shot of Lois surrounded by the crowd. One of them is a very SJW-looking protester. (A) Nobody would feel the least bit threatened by him and (B) I don't think SJW's would necessarily oppose living side-by-side with an alien.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 14 Jul  2018, 23:57
I guess the major difference is they do it on purpose while the destruction involving Superman happened in spite of his best efforts.

Yep.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 14 Jul  2018, 23:57
Still, the bit with the mob is a little amusing. There's a reaction shot of Lois surrounded by the crowd. One of them is a very SJW-looking protester. (A) Nobody would feel the least bit threatened by him and (B) I don't think SJW's would necessarily oppose living side-by-side with an alien.

Sure, SJWs are complete dropkicks and deserved to be laughed. But in this context, anybody can be an angry protestor. You can be as scrawny as that guy in the glasses, and you can still be as dangerous just by being part of an angry mob. Mix that together with a strong sense of paranoia and fear, that can potentially lead to disastrous consequences.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 14 Jul  2018, 23:57
I find this analogy flawed.
Completely agree.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 14 Jul  2018, 23:57
I can only think of one type of immigrant who are famous for bringing destruction with them upon their arrival. I guess the major difference is they do it on purpose while the destruction involving Superman happened in spite of his best efforts.
Again, completely agree.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 14 Jul  2018, 23:57
Still, the bit with the mob is a little amusing. There's a reaction shot of Lois surrounded by the crowd. One of them is a very SJW-looking protester. (A) Nobody would feel the least bit threatened by him and (B) I don't think SJW's would necessarily oppose living side-by-side with an alien.
These types of hecklers are a joke. It's not protesting. It's about insurgency. There's a difference. These sorts are harassing, agitating and looking for trouble. Rip off their masks, tear the clubs away from their hands and knock them the f*** out.

I found another video from a fan analysing the use of drones in MOS and BvS, specifically how they're introduced for surveillance at the end of first movie and then they're compared to the CIA and military's use of drone strikes during the extended Nairomi scene in the Ultimate Edition. The video specifically points out the parallels between the CIA's actions with that of the US government's drone program during the War on Terror. It might be the narrator projecting his own critique of the government's actions on foreign soil, but it's worthwhile analysis to listen to. Check it out on 3:28.

QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

Following up to the last video, here's another one comparing the CIA, Batman, and Lex's motives to the Gordian Knot - a legend involving Alexander the Great.

QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei


Has there been any more recent videos going over the DCEU that anyone would recommend?

This thread gives access to some good ones. Which is great, and appreciated. Especially since finding one that's positive and/or objective takes some digging since more than 90% found on youtube are nitpicky & overtly negative (or seems that way).



"Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humour was provided to console him for what he is."

You can check out the JLU Podcast with Samuel Otten online, he does scene breakdowns analysis of every DCEU film thus far. You can even type his name on YouTube to look at his content.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 07:48 #38 Last Edit: Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 09:08 by The Laughing Fish
I found this video essay breaking down the Batman-Superman fight scene, by comparing how each moment is adapted from The Dark Knight Returns - both the comic and animated versions. It also includes pinpointing several moments that pay homage to past Batman and Superman movies and various comics too.



Good video. But my only criticism is instead of comparing the Wayne murders flashback with Golden Age and Year One comic examples, they should've used The Dark Knight Returns again, because the BvS version is a lot more identical to that comic e.g. Thomas Wayne rolling his fist as Bruce looks on before getting shot, Martha's pearl necklace wrapping around the shooter before she gets shot, and the bullet casing flying out of the firing gun. Frankly, the same thing goes with the BB example of Bruce falling down in the hole, instead of that, I would've shown the panel from The Dark Knight Returns too, because it's the source where both BB and BvS got the idea from.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

Here is a video analysing how the Bagua symbol is referenced throughout BvS.



Whether the filmmakers intended this or not, its fascinating to see how fans read a lot into this movie.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei