Daredevil: Born Again (Disney+)

Started by Silver Nemesis, Sun, 24 Jul 2022, 11:06

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What we know so far:

•   Cox and D'Onofrio are returning.

•   It'll have 18 episodes, which will make it the longest MCU show to date (not counting Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.).

•   They're aiming for a Spring 2024 release.

•   It will be part of the MCU's Phase 5.

The title is a little confusing. Born Again is arguably the greatest Daredevil comic story ever, but they already adapted it in season 3 of the Netflix show (I'll get around to posting a comic analysis of that at some point). The use of the 'Born Again' title here could be merely symbolic, to represent Daredevil being reborn on the screen, so to speak. It could also just be fan service, since that story is so beloved.

Alternatively, Marvel might be ignoring aspects of the Netflix show in favour of a retelling. I actually wouldn't mind this, as it would seal off the brilliance of the Netflix series in its own universe while giving us a spiritual continuation with the same cast members. That way if the new Daredevil content is bad, it won't retroactively tarnish the earlier show. This approach would also allow them to bring back deceased characters like Wesley and Ben Urich, and to do better and more faithful adaptations of villains that were mishandled in other Netflix shows (e.g. Nuke and Typhoid Mary).

My guess is that the new series will vaguely acknowledge the canonicity of the Netflixverse, while allowing itself the freedom to contradict it in places. I can't imagine this series will be just a straight up adaptation of Miller and Mazzucchelli's Born Again, since 18 episodes is far too long for that. But there have been other Born Again-like storylines in the comics, such as Ann Nocenti's Typhoid Mary arc. Perhaps this new series will combine some of those stories into a single epic narrative.

Here are some things on my wish list:

•   Keep it dark, spooky and gritty. Daredevil can be light and funny, and I don't mind them exploring that side of the character in other shows. But keep the light-hearted goofy Silver Age stuff in the She-Hulk and Spider-Man shows. For Echo and Born Again, keep it serious and dark.

•   Bring back Bullseye.

•   Bring back Joanne Whalley as Maggie and finish exploring the back story of why she abandoned Jack and Matt.

•   Focus on darker, scarier comic villains like Muse, Mister Fear, Death-Stalker and Hellspawn, perhaps even tapping into elements of supernatural horror like the second season of the Netflix show did.

•   Keep it TV-MA/R-rated.

•   Keep it apolitical. I know this is asking a lot from the modern entertainment industry, but there's no need for this show to be divisive. Know your audience and don't alienate them.

•   Make good use of the increased Disney+ budget, but not at the expense of the excellent action that characterised the Netflix show. Keep the one-shot hallway fights and amazing fight choreography and only use CG effects where absolutely necessary.

•   Don't focus too much on Frank Miller. They covered his work comprehensively in the Netflix show. Many other great writers have written Daredevil comics over the years, so draw from their work.

Right now, I'm cautiously optimistic.

Some impressive fan posters are already cropping up online.

Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio appeared on stage at D23 today with an updated title card for the new show.

Filming is expected to occur next year.

As much as I doubt the show will be as good as the original Netflix show, I still hope it will turn out to be worthwhile. It's best to remain cautiously optimistic until proven otherwise. To me, Wilson Fisk's appearance in Hawkeye alone is proof enough we're dealing with different characters here. His strength may have amped up, but I still have a hard time he'd keep a low profile after the events of the Netflix show, never mind that he'd ever associate himself with those cartoonish Tracksuit Mafia gangsters. I've no doubt Cox's Daredevil appearance in She-Hulk will be a change in personality.

The MCU defenders will argue "let Matt Murdock be happy for once". I say if you want to go lighter, fine, but don't make embarassing, cringworthy jokes and dialogue. That nonsense ruined Thor, Hulk and even made Iron Man overstay his welcome, in my opinion. The die-hard Netflix Daredevil fans won't tolerate if Cox's return is sullied by the MCU comedy formula.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

Here are some quotes from Cox concerning Born Again. Firstly, on whether or not this is the same Daredevil from the Netflixverse:

Quote"I don't know anything. I haven't seen a script... My feeling is, based on the title 'Born Again,' I think that the sense is it is a new beginning, it is going to be different, it is going to be totally different. It is going to be new stories, and new ideas."

And also:

Quote"It is a Season 1, it is not Season 4, so it is a whole new thing. Which I think is the way to go. If you are going to do it again, do it differently."

On how dark the new series will be:

Quote"I have no idea. I don't know that it will be any darker. Will it be less dark? What does dark even mean? Where is that tonal shift? There will be a tonal shift, I'm sure, because we're doing more episodes, it's a whole new deal, and we're now on a different platform. But, I don't know. I haven't read anything yet."

A trailer for Echo was shown at D23 that included brief clips of both Daredevil and Kingpin. Audio of the trailer has leaked online, but not the full thing.

It rly is sounding like this is a reboot using some of the same cast.

My enthusiasm for this thing is waning.

That separation might be a good thing, depending on how badly Marvel screws up Daredevil in the She-Hulk series. If it is a separate universe, then at least the original Netflix DD will be safe from contamination. If Marvel does a good job handling DD moving forward, then fans can always connect the new material with the old via headcanon.

Eiza Gonzalez has denied the rumours about her being cast as Elektra, as she is getting harassed online by fans.


It sucks when some idiotic fans cross the line.

Elektra was quite the thrillseeker in the Netflix show. If the MCU use her in Born Again, they better not make her into a Valley girl.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

Charlie Cox Confirms 'Daredevil: Born Again' Mostly a Reboot

Well, there it is. The actual article doesn't bury the lead but the headline tells the tale.

This... is just irritating. Putting aside my outrage over deleting the perfectly good Netflix canon, any way you want to slice it, Born Again is a storyline that must be EARNED. The Netflix series riffed on Born Again and, honestly, I question how much even they earned it. But at least they had a season 01.

Using Born Again as a warm reboot... it's just low effort, frankly.

After the way the character was handled in She-Hulk, I'd be glad if this was a hard reboot. That way the definitive Daredevil adaptation from the Netflixverse remains unspoilt.

Daredevil season 4 should have come out in 2019. It should have featured Bullseye and the Larry Cranston Mister Fear as the main villains, and it should have ended on a cliffhanger with Matt paralysing Bullseye and Mister Fear exposing Daredevil's secret identity to the public.

Season 5 would have been delayed owing to Covid, so it probably would have come out in 2021. It should have been based on Bendis's Out storyline and Brubaker's The Devil in Cell Block D. Matt would have faced the legal ramifications of his vigilantism and been sent to prison, where he, Melvin Potter and Frank Castle would have faced off against Kingpin behind bars.

The show could have ended there, or else they could have made one final season to end the saga on a happier note. That would have come out in 2022 and wrapped the whole thing up.

I suspect many fans who are currently defending the character's portrayal in She-Hulk are in The Force Awakens stage of denial, where they're just so jazzed to see a beloved actor back in an iconic role that they're not thinking critically and are giving the writers a free pass. Once the excitement has settled down, and the initial thrill of seeing Charlie back in the costume has waned, I expect a lot more fans will start to appreciate just how bad She-Hulk's treatment of the character was.

I don't trust Marvel Studios to do Daredevil justice anymore. The MCU peaked years ago and has been in decline ever since. I enjoyed No Way Home, but that film was made by Sony Pictures and it's to Sony we should attribute its success. Marvel Studios' content has been consistently poor of late, with She-Hulk representing the nadir. It's possible the MCU could rebound. But if you count Blade (1998) or X-Men (2000) as the beginning of the Marvel movie trend, then the brand has dominated mainstream American cinema for over two decades now. I think it's had its moment in the sun. Now it's time for something different.

Regarding Born Again, Charlie Cox recently said:

Quote"Because of the tone of our show, I think there's a place for Daredevil to show up in Deadpool 3."

Fans are interpreting this in two different ways. The optimistic interpretation is that by 'tone' he's referring to the level of violence, suggesting this will be a brutal hard-R show like the Netflix series. That'd be swell.

The pessimistic interpretation is that he's alluding to the series having a comedic tone similar to Deadpool, with Matt possibly breaking the fourth wall and speaking directly to the audience. If this is the case, then... sigh:(