The Star Trek Thread

Started by Silver Nemesis, Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 15:20

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Not only has William Shatner still got all his marbles at the age of 90 – he's just been into space for real!


Absolute legend.

Overdue. Trek in general and Shatner in particular have done a lot more for the space program(s) than even some government agencies. I'm happy that he got the chance to visit space. We should all be so lucky.

Here's an excellent video from The Critical Drinker decrying the infantilization of modern film and TV audiences. He uses the Star Trek franchise as a case study – contrasting the emotional maturity of classic Trek against the juvenile writing in modern Trek – but the critique is equally applicable to modern commercial entertainment in general. It's well worth a watch if you've fifteen minutes to spare.


Sun, 12 Jun 2022, 17:58 #13 Last Edit: Sun, 12 Jun 2022, 18:00 by Silver Nemesis
This month marks the 40th anniversary of The Wrath of Khan (1982), and director Nicholas Meyer recently tweeted that a new book chronicling its production is being published later in the summer. I might pick up a copy.


In the meantime, I just read Star Trek: Hell's Mirror, a one-shot comic by J. M. DeMatteis that depicts the conflict between the mirror universe versions of Khan and Kirk.


DeMatteis is one of my favourite American comic writers, and there's no one better when it comes to pinning down characters and getting inside their heads. He does a good job here of capturing the ruthless voices of the mirror universe characters, and he presents Khan as something of an Earth-3 heroic counterpart to his more villainous namesake in the prime universe. He's still mostly the same Khan, by and large, but here he's reacting to circumstances in which his ambitions constitute the lesser of two evils when weighed against those of the Terran Empire.

Certain parts of the story reminded me of Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451, which is fitting since the mirror universe is very much a dystopian counterpoint to the typically utopian prime universe, and it also reminded me of the Star Trek: Khan – Ruling in Hell comic miniseries IDW published between October 2010 and January 2011. The art work and colouring do a great job of capturing the distinctive look of Star Trek TOS, and the character designs accurately reflect the likenesses of the actors. Thankfully the overall tone is very much that of 'Classic Trek' rather than 'NuTrek', and that alone is reason enough to read it. The relationship between Kirk and Khan is one of the greatest hero/villain rivalries in science fiction, and in writing this story DeMatteis has contributed an interesting new chapter to that saga; one which in no way damages or detracts from 'Space Seed' or Star Trek II. As an alternate universe retelling of their conflict, it's infinitely more satisfying than Jar Jar Abrams' atrocious Star Trek Into Darkness.


My one major problem with the story is the obvious plot twist. I could see it coming from the first few pages. It was so obvious in fact that I have a hard time believing Khan, with his superior intellect, would not have foreseen it. I kept expecting there to be another twist right at the end, where we would find out that Khan was one step ahead of Kirk the entire story. But that never happens. That's my one major criticism. I suppose you just have to accept that the mirror universe Khan is more naive than the prime universe version. Aside from that, it's an enjoyable comic that fans of Khan and the mirror universe should appreciate.

On a related note, here's an interesting video analysing the first battle between the Enterprise and the Reliant in Star Trek II, highlighting the various techniques used by the filmmakers to generate suspense.


Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 12 Jun  2022, 17:58
This month marks the 40th anniversary of The Wrath of Khan (1982), and director Nicholas Meyer recently tweeted that a new book chronicling its production is being published later in the summer. I might pick up a copy.


Amazon is now saying that this book's been delayed until September 2023. Oh well. On the bright side, there's a new book about the entire Genesis Trilogy coming out in less than a fortnight. I've pre-ordered a copy.







It's good to see more recognition for Star Treks II-IV as a trilogy and not just standalone entries in a thirteen-film series. 'Space Seed' is the prologue to that trilogy, and Star Trek VI is the coda. But Star Treks II, III and IV share a narrative thread that's unique among the franchise's cinematic offerings. I've already made my case for why the Genesis Trilogy is one of the best science fiction film trilogies of all time, and why I think it deserves to be ranked up there with the classic Star Wars and Back to the Future trilogies. Hopefully this new book will encourage others to discover or revisit it.

I just got back from seeing the 40th anniversary theatrical rerelease of The Wrath of Khan (Director's Cut), and all I can say is wow. I love that movie anyway, but seeing it on the big screen was one of the best cinematic experiences I've had in years. The Battle of the Mutara Nebula was particularly impressive, and hearing James Horner's score blasting out of the theatre speakers was incredible. The changes for the Director's Cut are surprisingly innocuous. There are no entirely new scenes, just a few extended exchanges of dialogue. But whether it's the original cut or the DC, it's worth seeing in theatres if you get the chance. Truly one of the greatest sci-fi films ever made.

Apparently Jaws (1975) is getting an IMAX rerelease starting on the 9th of September, so I'm going to try and get tickets for that next. A Batman-Online Jaws thread is long overdue.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat,  3 Sep  2022, 21:50I just got back from seeing the 40th anniversary theatrical rerelease of The Wrath of Khan (Director's Cut), and all I can say is wow. I love that movie anyway, but seeing it on the big screen was one of the best cinematic experiences I've had in years. The Battle of the Mutara Nebula was particularly impressive, and hearing James Horner's score blasting out of the theatre speakers was incredible. The changes for the Director's Cut are surprisingly innocuous. There are no entirely new scenes, just a few extended exchanges of dialogue. But whether it's the original cut or the DC, it's worth seeing in theatres if you get the chance. Truly one of the greatest sci-fi films ever made.
What I came to eventually realize is that I love Wrath Of Khan for kind of similar reasons for why I love the 'Where No Man Has Gone Before' pilot. In context, they're both great Trek stories.

But out of a Trek context, they're both sterling examples of great pieces of science-fiction that are exemplary of the genre's promises and highest aspirations. Yes, WOK has lots of ships buzzing around shooting lasers at each other. But the core of WOK is a story of accepting old age. That's how sci-fi should be. A common and relatable theme or conflict set against an otherwise completely impossible (for now) backdrop.

I'm recovering from covid at the moment. Otherwise, I would've been very interested in hitting up a WOK screening since I've never seen it on the big screen.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat,  3 Sep  2022, 21:50Apparently Jaws (1975) is getting an IMAX rerelease starting on the 9th of September, so I'm going to try and get tickets for that next. A Batman-Online Jaws thread is long overdue.
Perhaps it is. If you start that thread, count me in. Because I've spent decades trying to figure out exactly which genre Jaws fits into. And I'm no closer to figuring it out now than when I started.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat,  3 Sep  2022, 22:19What I came to eventually realize is that I love Wrath Of Khan for kind of similar reasons for why I love the 'Where No Man Has Gone Before' pilot. In context, they're both great Trek stories.

But out of a Trek context, they're both sterling examples of great pieces of science-fiction that are exemplary of the genre's promises and highest aspirations.

I watched 'Where No Man Has Gone Before' a couple of weeks ago, and it's still frightening. Just the other day I was mentally compiling a list of the best Star Trek episodes, and I was trying to decide whether to include WNMHGB or 'Charlie X'. I figured I'd pick just one, since they're quite similar. 'Charlie X' is the slicker of the two, but it's quite derivative of The Twilight Zone episode 'It's a Good Life'. WNMHGB is a bit rougher around the edges, what with it being the pilot, but overall I think it's the more iconic episode. Gary's transformation, from Kirk's trusted friend to a hubristic monster that can no longer empathise with human suffering, still makes for unsettling viewing.


I also revisited 'Space Seed' the night before I went to see TWOK on the cinema. In just one TV episode and one movie, they managed to craft a superb storyline about Kirk and his greatest nemesis. There are other Trek villains who made more appearances, but Khan only needed those two to create one of the best hero-villain narratives in modern fiction. Khan started out as an elegant and honourable prince ruling a substantial percentage of the Earth's surface, and he ended up a deranged, disfigured cutthroat renegade willing to unleash a WMD just to avenge himself against one man. That's one hell of an arc.


And just to reiterate what I've said in earlier posts, Montalban's performance is magnificent. The intensity, charm, simmering fury and physical grandeur he brought to Khan made the character intimidating and likeable at the same time. TWOK might have had the smallest budget of all the Trek movies, but after seeing the theatrical re-release I realise that it's actually one of the most cinematic. The nuances of Montalban's performance were among the qualities that really shone through on the big screen.

In the recently published Genesis Trilogy Anniversary Book there's an interview with Nicholas Meyer in which he's asked if he regrets not having a face-to-face confrontation between Kirk and Khan. Meyer answers no, saying that it would have been "cheesy, stereotyped and familiar" to have them duke it out like gladiators. Fun though it would have been to see Khan and Kirk fight in person again, I agree that it's better they didn't. Kirk shouldn't really be able to compete with Khan in physical terms anyway. The only advantage he has over Khan is his knowledge of 23rd century technology. There's a line to this effect in the Director's Cut, where after surviving their first encounter with the Reliant Kirk says something like, "The only reason we're still alive is because I know more about these ships than he does."

In the same way that you can only use an energy weapon once against the Borg before they adapt to it, you can only exploit knowledge against Khan once. With his superior intellect, he'll quickly assimilate that knowledge and take away your advantage. When he was marooned on Ceti Alpha V he had no way of studying 23rd century science. But if Khan had been granted just a few days to study the Genesis device and the scientific information stored in the Reliant's databanks, he might have become unstoppable. Kirk had to take him down quickly, just like he had to take down Gary Mitchell quickly before he evolved into an even more powerful being.

A major reason for Kirk being the best Star Trek captain is that he had the best villains, and the greatest of those was Khan.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat,  3 Sep  2022, 22:19Yes, WOK has lots of ships buzzing around shooting lasers at each other. But the core of WOK is a story of accepting old age. That's how sci-fi should be. A common and relatable theme or conflict set against an otherwise completely impossible (for now) backdrop.

Classic Trek was always about ideas. TWOK tackles a lot of themes to do with revenge, exile and no-win scenarios, but you're absolutely correct that at its core it's a film about accepting old age, and about confronting, acknowledging and accepting the inevitability of death. Kirk spends most of the film running away from death – he cheated the simulated death of the Kobayashi Maru test, now he's grappling with a midlife crisis and desperately trying to survive Khan's repeated attempts to kill him – but in the end death catches up with him and claims the life of his best friend. As David says, this is the first time Kirk's had to confront the death of someone truly important in his life. Edith Keeler's death in 'The City on the Edge of Forever' was a matter of historical fact, and he never seemed too broken up about his brother dying in 'Operation -- Annihilate!'. In both of those stories, he simply put their deaths behind him and resumed his adventures. But the death of Spock is not so easily brushed off.

The experience of losing Spock allows him to accept his own mortality, and in doing so also accept the responsibilities of fatherhood. He knows his life is moving on, and that such motion will eventually bring him to death, but he's no longer struggling against life's current or the changes it brings. There's an interesting line towards the end of the film where Kirk says, "And if Genesis is indeed life from death, I must return to this place again." You could interpret this as meaning Kirk knows he'll have to return to the Genesis Planet to recover Spock, although the beginning of Star Trek III makes it clear that he didn't know that. But I interpret the "life from death" line as a reference to Kirk's own mortality, and the undiscovered country into which he knows he will one day have to journey. It's Kirk recognising that he too will eventually die.

It's heavy stuff for a blockbuster film. But while TWOK is certainly a dark movie, it never feels depressing or downbeat. The film isn't saying 'you're going to die, so live in fear of death.' Quite the opposite, it's saying 'death is a necessary part of life, so there's no need to fear or worry about it – just make the most of the time you have and cherish the people you care about while they're still with you.' I actually find it to be an uplifting movie, especially when viewed in the context of the wider trilogy. It's the beginning of an exciting new chapter in Kirk's life, where he accepts his middle age and starts putting it to good use. He loses Spock, but he wins the affection and respect of his son.

Anyway, I'm rambling now. Sorry for the overlong post, but I've been thinking about this movie a lot lately. It's got a good deal of substance for thoughtful viewers to contemplate.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat,  3 Sep  2022, 22:19I'm recovering from covid at the moment. Otherwise, I would've been very interested in hitting up a WOK screening since I've never seen it on the big screen.

I hope you get well soon, colors. I had COVID myself about six weeks ago. It's rotten. But on the upside, your immunity should be boosted once you're over it. Use the isolation time to catch up on your reading and watch plenty of films.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat,  3 Sep  2022, 22:19Perhaps it is. If you start that thread, count me in. Because I've spent decades trying to figure out exactly which genre Jaws fits into. And I'm no closer to figuring it out now than when I started.

That's going to be a fun thread. I'm keen to mount a defence of Murray Hamilton's character. He gets a bad rap these days, but I reckon he was an underrated mayor who did his best under difficult circumstances.

The 'which genre' question is interesting too. If you count Jaws as a horror movie, as opposed to a thriller or disaster film, then it's technically a Universal monster movie.

Mon, 5 Sep 2022, 21:31 #18 Last Edit: Mon, 5 Sep 2022, 22:01 by Kamdan
QuoteIn the recently published Genesis Trilogy Anniversary Book there's an interview with Nicholas Meyer in which he's asked if he regrets not having a face-to-face confrontation between Kirk and Khan. Meyer answers no, saying that it would have been "cheesy, stereotyped and familiar" to have them duke it out like gladiators. Fun though it would have been to see Khan and Kirk fight in person again, I agree that it's better they didn't. Kirk shouldn't really be able to compete with Khan in physical terms anyway. The only advantage he has over Khan is his knowledge of 23rd century technology. There's a line to this effect in the Director's Cut, where after surviving their first encounter with the Reliant Kirk says something like, "The only reason we're still alive is because I know more about these ships than he does."

Always wondered if the fight between Kirk and Kruge in the subsequent film was added to appease Shatner, who I'm sure was all in for another brawl with Montalban. Judging from Meyer's prior interviews and commentaries, it sounded like he had his work cut out for him to make Shatner play Kirk the way he did in Wrath of Khan so that he didn't come off as his exuberant self, which is not what this Kirk is supposed to be. 

Wed, 7 Sep 2022, 15:51 #19 Last Edit: Wed, 7 Sep 2022, 15:58 by Silver Nemesis
Quote from: Kamdan on Mon,  5 Sep  2022, 21:31
Always wondered if the fight between Kirk and Kruge in the subsequent film was added to appease Shatner, who I'm sure was all in for another brawl with Montalban.

Possibly. Shatner's often said that he would have liked to have shot a scene with Montalban. But from what I've read about their acting styles, it might have proved difficult. Nicholas Meyer said both actors required direction, albeit in different ways. In Montalban's case, he was so used to playing Mr. Roarke in Fantasy Island that he initially approached the role in a theatrical manner, projecting his voice loudly as though he were on stage. Meyer pointed this out and helped him scale back his performance to the pitch-perfect level we see in the finished film.

And as you say, Shatner would usually attack each scene with a level of energy inconsistent with the character's midlife ennui. So Meyer would make him do take after take after take, until eventually he was so worn down that his lack of energy would manifest in his performance. The tiredness he expressed was then perfect for the world weariness Kirk was meant to be experiencing at that stage of his life. People can make fun of Shatner's acting all they like, but I think his performance in TWOK is excellent. He'd played that character so many times, and yet still managed to reveal different emotional sides of him that audiences hadn't seen before.

I've read that to get those iconic performances out of them, Meyer had to take a different approach with each actor. Supposedly Montalban would usually get his scenes in the first few takes, while Shatner would require a larger number of takes to hit the right note. For that reason, having them appear together in the same scene might have been tricky. But I don't regret not seeing them slug it out again. We already saw them fight mano a mano in 'Space Seed'. They duel one another at the end of TWOK too, only they use their starships instead of their fists. Elsewhere we get to see a small amount of Kirk-fu during the fight scene in the Regula cave.

I do enjoy the fight in The Search for Spock. Kruge lacked Khan's finesse and superior intellect. Khan was obviously well versed in violence, as evidenced by the way he took down the Enterprise security guards in 'Space Seed' and the way he massacred the crew of Regula One in TWOK, but he typically favoured manipulating others into doing his dirty work for him. Whether it was seducing McGivers to help him hijack the Enterprise or taking control of Terrell and Chekov with the Ceti eels, he wouldn't needlessly endanger himself if he could use manipulation to achieve his aims. By contrast, Kruge would needlessly place himself in harm's way just for the glory of getting blood on his hands. A good example of this is when he stops one of his underlings from shooting the Genesis worm so he can test his strength against it.


It makes sense for someone like that to want to settle his score with Kirk in hand-to-hand combat. Meyer contrasts Khan with General Chang in the Genesis Trilogy Anniversary Book, saying that while Khan is all heart, Chang is all head. If that's so, then Kruge is somewhere in the middle. He's passionate like Khan, but shares Chang's tactical inclination towards realpolitik. He's certainly no diplomat. The final fight between him and Kirk is an expression of pure rage and hatred. Kirk killed most of Kruge's crew, and Kruge killed Kirk's son. They're like two animals going at it as the world disintegrates around them. The bestial nature of that dénouement offers a counterpoint to the more tactical showdown between the Enterprise and the Reliant at the end of TWOK.

One of the strengths of the Genesis Trilogy is that the three films don't just lazily repeat one another. The fact they have very different finales is a good example of this. The Wrath of Kahn ends with a space battle. The Search for Spock ends with a hand-to-hand fight. The Voyage Home ends with the Bounty crashing in the ocean and the sequence where Kirk has to swim through the flooded decks to release the whales. All three finales are exciting in their own way, and they each exemplify a different type of Star Trek story.