The Star Trek Thread

Started by Silver Nemesis, Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 15:20

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In further celebration of TWOK's 40th anniversary, it's been announced that Nicholas Meyer's Star Trek: Khan – Ceti Alpha V audio drama has been given the go ahead. The series, penned by Meyer, takes place during the years of Khan's exile and will be presented as a scripted podcast.


Khan's exile has already been explored in other mediums. First there was Greg Cox's 2005 novel To Reign in Hell: The Exile of Khan Noonien Singh. Then there was the Star Trek: Khan – Ruling in Hell comic book miniseries published by IDW in 2011. I don't need to know more about that part of Khan's story, but since this is Meyer writing I'm willing to give it a listen.

I'm generally not into fan fiction, but for years now I've been seeing recommendations everywhere for Star Trek Continues, a TOS fan series produced between 2013 and 2017. I finally decided to give it a shot, and I'm glad I did. It's by far the best fan production I've seen for any franchise. And it's the first Star Trek production of the past twenty years that I've actually enjoyed. A testament to its quality lies in the fact I can forget it's a fan-made series about a minute into each episode. It's so absorbing, I feel like I'm watching missing episodes of TOS.


The show does a great job of capturing the look and feel of sixties Trek. I've read that the people behind it managed to get hold of the set designs from the original series in order to recreate the Enterprise precisely. It's also lit, shot and edited to look like the classic series, using the original score, and they've applied some kind of digital grain filter to approximate the look of 1960s 35mm film stock. It's uncanny how similar it feels to TOS Trek. The production values are excellent.

The cast is also good. Vic Mignogna manages to capture Kirk's mannerisms well, and from certain camera angles he even resembles a young Shatner. Scottie is played by Chris Doohan, the son of the original Scottie James Doohan. The first episode features Michael Forest reprising his role as Apollo from the original series episode 'Who Mourns for Adonais?' Several TNG actors also make guest appearances (playing new characters), including Michael Dorn, Marina Sirtis and John de Lancie.


Jason Isaacs, Lou Ferrigno, Erin Gray and Mark Rolston all guest star in episodes, and Doctor Who actors Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant also make appearances. I mentioned years ago in the Doctor Who thread that I was featured in a newspaper article with Colin Baker when I was 10 years old, where we were photographed and interviewed together, so it was nice for me to see someone I've met in a Star Trek production.

It's not just the cast and production values that are impressive. The quality of the writing is also high and each episode has a central idea at its core, which is a hallmark of classic Trek. I've only watched four of the eleven episodes so far, but I've enjoyed all of them. There's a particularly strong episode titled 'Fairest of Them All' which is a direct continuation of the original series episode 'Mirror, Mirror'. It begins with a recreation of the final conversation between Kirk and the Mirror Universe Spock in 'Mirror, Mirror', and from there we witness what happens when the evil Kirk is returned to his ship, with the entire episode taking place in the Mirror Universe. It's a superb sequel to one of Star Trek's greatest episodes.


I might post more about this series when I've watched the other episodes, but for now I just wanted to recommend it. Gene Roddenberry's son, Rod Roddenberry, has endorsed the show and said that he thinks his father would have considered it canon. I have no problem accepting it as such. If, like me, you've found that official Trek over the past couple of decades has left you cold, then this fan series is the perfect antidote. TOS fans need to see it.

All eleven episodes are available free on YouTube.

I've been watching TNG over the last few months, and I'm nearly finished the third season, and about to watch the two-part episode of Captain Picard getting abducted by the Borg. I grew up watching standalone episodes of this show, but never got the opportunity to watch its entirety till now.

Luckily, Gene Roddenberry didn't his way and turned Patrick Stewart down for Jean-Luc Picard. Stewart, being the accomplished stage actor he is, brings that level of gravitas and power into this show. As much as I enjoy the humourous moments surrounding Picard, it's scenes such as the moment he feels Sarek's overwhelming grief and anger after undergoing that mind-melding spell make you feel the raw emotion. Such a scene could easily be melodramatic and badly acted, but Stewart nails it.

Even putting aside Stewart's acting range and diplomacy, it's how he conveys the dignity and concern for other species that puts him a class above. Whether Picard angrily rejects a recommendation to go along as the god that a primitive Vulcan race perceived him to be because he refuses to undermine their progress and have them return to superstitious thinking, or shows exasperation, concern and fighting for the custody of Data's constructed android daughter, Picard showed integrity and I have a hard time believing anyone other than Stewart would've pulled it off.

I've heard some mixed reactions to the Picard show. I'll get around to seeing at some point in the near future. But no matter what, nothing will undermine my perception of Stewart as Captain Picard in TNG.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 12 Jun  2022, 17:58This month marks the 40th anniversary of The Wrath of Khan (1982), and director Nicholas Meyer recently tweeted that a new book chronicling its production is being published later in the summer. I might pick up a copy.


This book was delayed by over a year, but it's finally out. I got a copy for my birthday earlier this month and finished reading it a few nights ago. It's a beautiful collectable for fans of TWOK, filled with rare pictures and interesting behind-the-scenes info from a wide variety of sources.

There were several things in the book that I hadn't heard before. For example, an alternate fight scene was shot between Kirk and David. You can see an image from this scene on one of the posters, and there are more images from it in the book.


David would've attacked Kirk and knocked him to the ground before holding a knife to his throat. Carol would then have intervened to reveal that Jim is David's father. In this version of the scene it's made clear that both Kirk and David are unaware of their familial connection until that moment, whereas in the finished film Kirk already knew that David was his son. I like how Kirk casually disarms David in the finished film, so I prefer the reshot version. The reshot scene also better emphasises the theme of middle-aged regret, with Kirk reflecting on his decision to be absent from David's life with a note of sadness and remorse.

Speaking of fight scenes, most of the earlier screenplays featured a one-on-one bout between Kirk and Khan. It would've taken place in the Genesis cave after the scene where the Ceti eel emerges from Chekov's ear. In the finished film Kirk tries baiting Khan into beaming down to Regula and facing him in person, but Khan chooses to remain on the Reliant and leave his nemesis 'buried alive'.

The making of book presents four pages of script from an earlier draft which offers a different turn of events. In this version Kirk would've successfully lured Khan to the Genesis cave with the promise of some information he needed. Khan agrees to duel Kirk ('winner take Genesis') and beams down to Regula accompanied by two seconds. Khan brings swords with him, one of which he gives to Kirk. He then attacks Kirk furiously, and it quickly becomes clear that Jim is 'outclassed' by his superior adversary.

The script describes Khan knocking Kirk off ledges to drive him deeper into the Genesis cave before shattering his weapon. Kirk falls to the ground, bloodied and exhausted, and it's then that Khan deduces he's been tricked. Kirk does not possess the information he wants. Kirk closes his eyes and awaits the coup de grâce, but Khan relents at the last moment and delivers a speech about how he'd rather leave Kirk marooned as his foe once left him. Much of this monologue was reworked into Khan's 'buried alive' speech in the finished film. Kirk doesn't yell 'Khaaaaan!' in this version.

It would've been cool to see Khan and Kirk fight in person, but as the book points out, neither of them actually profits from this bout. They're both in exactly the same position after the fight as they were before it. The only difference is that Khan has the satisfaction of beating Kirk to a bloody pulp. But his decision to deny Kirk the satisfaction of facing him in the finished film feels truer to Khan's character. Kirk exploits Khan's ego and rage to lure him into the Mutara Nebula for the final battle, and that would've seemed less plausible if he'd already lured him into a one-on-one fight earlier in the film. The fact Khan didn't rise to the challenge the first time makes it more believable that he would do so the second time. When he takes the Reliant into the Mutara Nebula it's to make absolutely certain that Kirk is dead. He doesn't want to repeat his earlier mistake of giving Kirk a chance to live. So again, I'd say the finished version is better.

Another interesting thing I learnt from the book is that Montalban's stunt double, and the main stunt coordinator on TWOK, was Bill Couch, Sr., whose brother Chuck Couch had doubled for Montalban in 'Space Seed'.

Montalban's daughter contributed some input to the book prior to her death in 2021. She recalls how her father worked out for three hours every morning from 3 am to 6 am before filming in order to maintain his muscular physique. The book contains pictures of the makeup artists applying the blood and scars to his torso for the film's finale, clearly showing that his physique was real and not prosthetic as some fans have claimed. There's also a quote from Nicholas Meyer in which he definitively lays that rumour to rest and confirms Montalban's muscles were real.

There's an interesting section about the movie's novelisation and how the studio withheld the final chapters from the publisher to prevent spoilers about Spock's death from spreading. They considered various options about how to handle the novelisation, with one idea being to omit the ending of the film from the novel altogether, and another being to allow people who bought the book to collect the missing chapters after the film's release. Ultimately they decided to include the ending of the film in the novelisation, but withheld the relevant chapters from the publisher for as long as possible.

There are lots of other interesting things in the book, such as the deleted subplot about Khan's young son, or the unused idea of bringing back the character Janet Wallace (played by Sarah Marshall) from the TV episode 'The Deadly Years' to be David's mother before Carol Marcus was created. For Wrath of Khan fans it's well worth owning.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 14 Nov  2020, 22:47I'll also defend Star Trek- The Motion Picture until Armageddon. There are tons of movies out there that I absolutely adore but wish would be longer. TMP is basically a really ambitious episode of TOS spread out into a feature length movie. That plays for me. The slower pace, the more cerebral tone, the ponderous nature of the plotting, for me those are features, not bugs.

I watched TMP for the first time in twenty-odd years a few weeks ago and I concur with this sentiment. I reckon it got a bad wrap because it was compared unfavourably to Star Wars. It's a lot more artistic and not the kind of film to make action figure merchandise for.

I reckon if TMP had been released in the early seventies, the reaction would've been much more positive. It's a very well-crafted film, not just for the special effects but the context of the film itself. The theme surrounding sentience within the V'Ger satellite is something I'm not really sure how any Star Trek fan could dislike, and the tension between Kirk and Decker shows the former isn't as infallible as one would've thought.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

https://youtu.be/9K5fa_C5jnQ

https://youtu.be/bdT9NbqN5tY

When Star Trek is at its best, it can give thought-provoking themes that mirror reality and foreshadow future events, such as Picard fighting for Data's civil rights in a tribunal and arguing his ability to gain sentience is proof he is a living entity in the TNG episode The Measure of a Man. Knowing now AI and androids is a reality, I can easily imagine someone taking a page out of Picard's book.

I give Trekkers massive credit for keeping this franchise alive over the decades, but they were very lucky that studio execs weren't as petty as they are today. If Star Trek was a new show that came out today, the fans would be dismissed as "cultists" and "toxic". I know they may have been dismissed in the past, but in today's climate, the narrative against them would be much worse.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei


First Contact is streaming for free on YouTube.

Always had a major soft spot for this film. It told a story in Trek canon that needed to be told but hadn't gotten much attention up to that point. Which is strange when you think about what obvious subject matter the episode is. You'd think the story of mankind's first contact with an alien race in the Trek universe would've been done years earlier. But afaik, this is the only telling of that story.

In the main, I enjoy TOS more than TNG. And in my book, Trek TOS films have a stronger batting average than the Next Gen films. What I mean, Wrath Of Khan is amazing and The Final Frontier isn't that bad. Meanwhile, First Contact is very enjoyable but I'd hesitate to call it great and Insurrection is really just a long version of an average episode of TNG.

Still, First Contact is a fun Trek adventure and it puts a bow around a dangling plot thread left over from TNG. For those things alone, it's highly recommended.

Even tho most of you reading this probably saw it in theaters back in 1996. So, hmm.

I enjoyed First Contact when I watched it years ago, even more so now that I've completed watching TNG and everything that Picard had gone through when he was assimilated with the Borg. I do wonder though - if the Borg are destroyed, does that mean Hugh and the others who broke away from the collective are gone too?
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

Wed, 27 Dec 2023, 19:11 #28 Last Edit: Thu, 28 Dec 2023, 14:22 by Silver Nemesis
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 25 Dec  2023, 18:11Even tho most of you reading this probably saw it in theaters back in 1996. So, hmm.

I actually missed First Contact during its theatrical run. I can't remember why I didn't go to see it. I saw The Undiscovered Country and Generations when they first came out, and I remember going to see Insurrection with my brother on the final day of the Christmas holidays in early January 1999. But for some reason I didn't see First Contact until it was released on video. Now I wish I had seen it on the big screen, because it's clearly the best of the TNG films.

While Generations had one foot stuck in the past – both in terms of Kirk's role and also the sets and uniforms carried over from The Next Generation TV series – First Contact draws a line of demarcation and establishes a new aesthetic to distinguish the TNG movies from the TV show that preceded them. We get stylish new Starfleet uniforms, the Enterprise E is introduced, and Geordi gets cybernetic implants to replace his iconic visor. If Generations was a transitional movie, then First Contact feels like the first 100% TNG movie. It's a much more confident film, benefiting from a pacy script and slick direction by Jonathan Frakes. First Contact establishes a distinctive look and tone that would continue to characterise the movies throughout the remainder of the Picard era.


If Generations has parallels with The Motion Picture (both are often dismissed as weaker entries in the franchise, both are sometimes said to have created false starts for their respective TV casts transitioning to the big screen, and both movies are IMO underrated), then First Contact mirrors the success of The Wrath of Khan. Like TWOK, it brings back an old foe from the TV series, has more action than its predecessor and a darker tone. Alice Krige gives a menacing performance as the sinister and seductive Borg Queen, probably the most memorable villain of the TNG movie era. The whole idea of a collective like the Borg having a queen who identifies as 'I' rather than 'we' is a little strange, but if we can accept the idea of the Borg singling out an individual to serve as their mouthpiece, as in the case of Picard/Locutus, then it's feasible they might single out an individual to serve as a sort of figurehead for their collective.

First Contact contains several impressive action set pieces, with the two most memorable being the space battle against the Borg cube and the zero-gravity shootout on the Enterprise's deflector dish. The latter scene is particularly creative and well staged. The storyline does a good job of giving each of the main cast members something to do, and it's nice to see Dwight Schultz make an appearance as Barclay, one of my favourite characters from the Next Gen era. Picard is a lot more emotional here than in earlier appearances, and I like the fact the film portrays him in such a flawed way. Usually he's always calm and in control, but here his emotional equanimity is compromised by his PTSD. Some fans have taken issue with his aggressive emotionality in this film, but I'm ok with it. His PTSD, resulting from his de-assimilation, was hinted at in the TV series but never fully resolved. The movie shows that repressed trauma rising to the surface in a way that feels believable.

I don't have too many criticisms of First Contact, but there are a few. I was never sure how the Borg captured Data. One moment he's slapping them all over the place with minimum effort, then we see him get dragged under a door. Then what? The next time we see him he's awakening in the Borg's lair. How did they subdue him? I don't know if there's a deleted scene that fills the gap, but it feels like something's missing from the story there. James Cromwell gives an entertaining performance as Zefram Cochrane, but I prefer the more conventionally heroic version of the character Glenn Corbett played in the TOS episode 'Metamorphosis'. I'm also not keen on the use of Captain Ahab as an analogy for Picard's thirst for revenge. That particular literary allusion was already used very effectively in The Wrath of Khan, and here it feels recycled.

Other than that, First Contact is a really good sci-fi film. I'd rank it as the second best Star Trek movie of the nineties after The Undiscovered Country. Actually scratch that – Galaxy Quest is the best Star Trek movie of the nineties. But if we're talking official entries, then Treks VI and VIII are the best that decade offered.

I re-watched all the TNG movies on Blu-ray back in 2022, and I think they hold up rather well. I'm primarily a TOS fan and I consider the original Kirk films to be peak Trek. Even The Final Frontier, for all its faults, is a really entertaining movie. The Next Gen films aren't on that level for me, but they're still enjoyable and a little underrated these days. Picard's later cinematic stories were overshadowed by trendier franchises when they first came out (The Lord of the Rings, the Star Wars Prequels, The Matrix, Spider-Man and Harry Potter), but they're worth revisiting now.


They're unlikely to convert non-Trekkies, and they don't reach the highs of the TNG TV series, but fans of nineties sci-fi cinema should give them another chance. I'd certainly rank them above the Kelvin Timeline stuff that came afterwards.