The Joker's Psychological Profile

Started by thecolorsblend, Wed, 1 Jul 2020, 22:00

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Mon, 20 Jul 2020, 02:43 #1 Last Edit: Mon, 20 Jul 2020, 02:44 by The Dark Knight
I gave TDK a spin yesterday, mainly to check out Ledger's Joker in comparison to Phoenix. Ledger's fine, but it reminded me how overall, I don't like how Nolan filmed him. A good chunk of content is just his voice, with close-ups of other characters reacting to him.

When he's on screen we mainly see the side of his face, the camera is spinning around or the camera doesn't stay centred on him long enough. It's all a bit too brief for me. There isn't enough meat on the bones to feel a connection.

I do feel the performance could have been presented better – one example is the "here's my card" moment which should've been a different take. The film version is cut too quickly and the joke isn't truly communicated. You don't need to tell me the intent of this Joker – I get it. But the character and his threat level is mostly driven through the writing.

As always, all of this is IN MY OPINION.

Mon, 20 Jul 2020, 03:31 #2 Last Edit: Mon, 20 Jul 2020, 13:05 by thecolorsblend
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 20 Jul  2020, 02:43
I gave TDK a spin yesterday, mainly to check out Ledger's Joker in comparison to Phoenix. Ledger's fine, but it reminded me how overall, I don't like how Nolan filmed him. A good chunk of content is just his voice, with close-ups of other characters reacting to him.

When he's on screen we mainly see the side of his face, the camera is spinning around or the camera doesn't stay centred on him long enough. It's all a bit too brief for me. There isn't enough meat on the bones to feel a connection.

I do feel the performance could have been presented better – one example is the "here's my card" moment which should've been a different take. The film version is cut too quickly and the joke isn't truly communicated. You don't need to tell me the intent of this Joker – I get it. But the character and his threat level is mostly driven through the writing.

As always, all of this is IN MY OPINION.
This is a fair point. And it emphasizes that in JOKER, the camera lingers on Phoenix's performance and the entire film basically lives inside his head. His dance scenes are great examples of the camera's relentless focus on the character. When you think about it, the dance sequences don't really advance the story all that much. But they do a lot to advance the character.

Nolan's preference is to avoid things like that, unless it's for Bruce. And then you get occasional camera work that says something about the character.

But you're right, Ledger gives a chilling performance in TDK and that's almost in spite of the restrictions Nolan put on him. If it wasn't for Ledger setting the pace for each of his scenes, there's a strong argument that he would've gotten swept away in TDK's forward momentum.

For the sake of comparison, I've often said that I thought Bale phoned it in with TDK. But now, I have to reassess that. Did he actually sleep through TDK? Or did Nolan's style simply not showcase the fullness of Bale's performance?

If you think about the standout bits from TDK, they usually feature one actor doing a brief monologue where the actor himself sets the pace and the rhythm so that Nolan doesn't necessarily have the choice to cut around him. Here I'm thinking of Caine's "Watch the world burn" bit, Freeman's "Your plan is blackmail?" thing, Oldman's final soliloquy and similar things. Ledger was given bunches of those things and the movie is the better for it. But is it the best it can possibly be?

As you say, the answer might be no.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 20 Jul  2020, 03:31
But you're right, Ledger gives a chilling performance in TDK and that's almost in spite of the restrictions Nolan put on him. If it wasn't for Ledger setting the pace for each of his scenes, there's a strong argument that he would've gotten swept away in TDK's forward momentum.
Yes. His best scenes are with Gordon in the dark and the subsequent interrogation scene, because he gets a sustained period of time to strut his stuff. Same goes for the hospital meeting with Dent. Even with the scene with Gambol I feel Nolan used the wrong "why so serious" take.  The original theatrical trailer version is much better - full frontal and forceful. The film has the side of his face for the majority of the line, then a quick cut to his face as he ends the line.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 20 Jul  2020, 03:31
For the sake of comparison, I've often said that I thought Bale phoned it in with TDK. But now, I have to reassess that. Did he actually sleep through TDK? Or did Nolan's style simply not showcase the fullness of Bale's performance?
The strength of Bale's TDK performance is his egotistical billionaire act. If you look at that as being the main aspect of the performance it's rather good. Models always by his side, driving a Lamborghini, arriving by helicopter, "I own the place", and so forth.

The pure Batman stuff doesn't carry as much weight to me as does in TDK Rises.

In TDK, Batman doesn't get as much opportunity in the context of the narrative. I find it's all about Bruce clinging to the façade (throwing his drink over the balcony) and quietly suffering because he wants to retire and be with Rachel. Dent is the hero for the majority of the film, and literally takes Batman's place when he surrenders himself.