Matrix 4 Coming Soon

Started by thecolorsblend, Tue, 20 Aug 2019, 23:08

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Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 29 Feb  2020, 00:13
Matrix merchandise is really special because there's not much of it. So when something new is announced I get really excited. I have all the McFarlane toys from 2003 still in their boxes unopened. I recently bought a 1/43 scale Lincoln Continental die cast model car that appears in the films, and have kept it in the Matrix packaging too. I already have the Art of the Matrix hardcover and the new Matrix comics hardcover, along with the two PS2 games. I am optimistic more merchandise will be produced closer to the new film's release.

I'd forgotten there were two Matrix PS2 games. I remember playing Enter the Matrix, but I never played Path of Neo.

One thing that stands out in my memory about The Matrix tie-ins was how they connected with the main films in a meaningful way. Enter the Matrix and The Animatrix both featured actors from the movies reprising their roles and Enter the Matrix included specially filmed live action scenes that took place concurrent with the movies.


The events of The Animatrix were directly referenced in the films, such as Neo freeing the 'Kid', or the Final Flight of the Osiris getting namedropped in The Matrix Reloaded. My favourite films from The Animatrix were The Second Renaissance Parts I & II.




There's some really excellent world building going on in these short films. They make a substantial contribution to the mythology and feel totally canonical. Compare that with something like Batman: Gotham Knight (2008), which didn't feel canonical and in no way impacted the films it was purportedly connected to. Hopefully the new Matrix movie will get some similarly high quality tie-ins to get fans hyped.

Enter The Matrix was way ahead of its time. It enriches Reloaded and was not a lazy cash in that most movie games tend to be. Having Niobe as the driver and Ghost as the gunner allowed a different perspective on the same story which actually warranted the player to experience the both of them.

The events of The Final Flight of the Osiris directly factor into the opening segment.

Ghost and Trinity were released from the Matrix roughly around the same time. He loves her, but she views him as a brother. As a result, Ghost chooses to live the life of a celibate monk. I find that rather fascinating.

Niobe clearly hasn't moved on from Morpheus based on her encounter with Persephone.

The mission to shut down the power plant is shown in great detail.

The captains fleeing the sewers is shown in greater detail.

The Keymaker had already tried to escape from the Chateau before Neo arrived, saving Ghost and Niobe. His key to the Architect is destroyed, and the key he ends up giving Neo is a reforge. Not knowing this during a viewing of Reloaded doesn't change anything, but I'm a really glad these side stories exist. It fits in cleanly to the timeline and gives the characters more material.

The Revolutions sequence of the Hammer racing back to Zion is so much better when you've played ETM. Niobe doing some of her best piloting and Ghost manning the guns.

With that said, Path of Neo, however, is my favorite game. It's not canon, but it gave the fans what they wanted: playing as Neo in a greatest hits type package. Both of the games are solid and I'm hoping we get another. A game set before The Matrix 4 or during it, ala ETM, would be great.

The Animatrix is not to be forgotten. The Second Renaissance is brilliant. Final Flight of the Osiris is also brilliant, and Kid's Story. The stories have a sophisticated depth to them that probably wouldn't satisfy general audiences, or would simply go over their head. The predictable meme is that the sequels 'sucked', but once I hear that I tune out. I really think we're in for something special with Matrix 4. A true science fiction story that RESPECTS the past and the characters. Lana doesn't bring the franchise back and play it safe.


The Second Renaissance is an essential part of The Matrix mythos. I might've preferred that the story be fleshed out as a live action feature. But that's not much of a criticism, really. When the most substantial complaint you have about a story is, essentially, that you wish it was longer, you're actually complimenting the storytellers.

Still, there are little chestnuts that I wouldn't mind seeing an Animatrix companion series explore. The Nightmare Matrix hinted at by Smith, The Merovingian and The Architect, for example. We never find out much about it but it sounds interesting.

My guess though is that any new peripheral media will most likely deal with story elements integral to Matrix 4. Which is sensible enough.

As a side note, is it too much to hope for that the original Matrix comics finally get released on Comixology? Those were some amazing stories in many cases.

Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 03:00 #13 Last Edit: Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 03:02 by The Dark Knight
The film has been delayed but my fire hasn't gone away. Even just this project would be enough to keep me satisfied cinematically for the next few years, but add in Keaton's return, ZSJL and The Batman? I'm eating very, very well.

I'm seeing things like this:

The Matrix: Birth
Reloaded: Life
Revolutions: Death
Matrix 4: Afterlife

The afterlife component being Neo and Trinity's mental insertion into the system, not knowing one another or their past, and reconnecting. Keanu has said the movie is "a bit of a love story", which is absolutely fantastic from my point of view. It places them high on the totem pole of importance. Imagine 'Trinity Definitely' playing during their courtship.

Filming has shown Neo (I think he'll be called Thomas again for the most part), walking up to an edge and rubbing his hands together, ala the original. This suggests he's waking up again and testing his abilities. And of course, we see a pair of people, who I assume to be Neo and Trinity, leaping off a skyscraper. Trinity, by the way, looks to be called Tiffany. The first time her civilian/non pseudonym name has been revealed. I like it. It expands upon the lore and feels like a natural progression given the name she later adopts.

I'm really thinking Morpheus has been killed since the events of Revolutions. I'm unsure if this will be a standalone film or a new trilogy. But if it's a new trilogy, I wouldn't rule out an appearance in a fifth or sixth film. Or at least a reference in 4 about what has happened. But as it stands, while I love Morpheus, Neo and Trinity are the true heart and soul of the franchise.

Details have been revealed that state payphones won't play a huge role in the film, if it all. Which shows the world has continued on from 2003 without reverting back to 1999, and it's the modern current day. For a second I felt a little hurt by this revelation, given just how iconic those phones are in the franchise. But then I had to stop and check myself. This is great news. The whole point should be doing something fresh with the concept, unlike DisneyWars. I'm interested to see how they tackle it.

It's been revealed Zion is also going to look different in terms of evolution, which I'm eager to see. I don't think many people know Zion was dug out by the Machines, even though the concept makes complete sense. The red doors are meant to resemble the red pods in the fields. I think it's brilliant – I hate the Matrix within a Matrix theories, and this strikes a nice balance. You get out of the Matrix, but even then, Zion was created by the Machines, and you're essentially still a slave staying in your new quarters.

Apparently The Twins are back too, which I really hope is true. It would fit with the Merovingian's return.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 11 Sep  2020, 03:00
The film has been delayed but my fire hasn't gone away. Even just this project would be enough to keep me satisfied cinematically for the next few years, but add in Keaton's return, ZSJL and The Batman? I'm eating very, very well.

I'm seeing things like this:

The Matrix: Birth
Reloaded: Life
Revolutions: Death
Matrix 4: Afterlife

The afterlife component being Neo and Trinity's mental insertion into the system, not knowing one another or their past, and reconnecting. Keanu has said the movie is "a bit of a love story", which is absolutely fantastic from my point of view. It places them high on the totem pole of importance. Imagine 'Trinity Definitely' playing during their courtship.

Filming has shown Neo (I think he'll be called Thomas again for the most part), walking up to an edge and rubbing his hands together, ala the original. This suggests he's waking up again and testing his abilities. And of course, we see a pair of people, who I assume to be Neo and Trinity, leaping off a skyscraper. Trinity, by the way, looks to be called Tiffany. The first time her civilian/non pseudonym name has been revealed. I like it. It expands upon the lore and feels like a natural progression given the name she later adopts.

I'm really thinking Morpheus has been killed since the events of Revolutions. I'm unsure if this will be a standalone film or a new trilogy. But if it's a new trilogy, I wouldn't rule out an appearance in a fifth or sixth film. Or at least a reference in 4 about what has happened. But as it stands, while I love Morpheus, Neo and Trinity are the true heart and soul of the franchise.

Details have been revealed that state payphones won't play a huge role in the film, if it all. Which shows the world has continued on from 2003 without reverting back to 1999, and it's the modern current day. For a second I felt a little hurt by this revelation, given just how iconic those phones are in the franchise. But then I had to stop and check myself. This is great news. The whole point should be doing something fresh with the concept, unlike DisneyWars. I'm interested to see how they tackle it.

It's been revealed Zion is also going to look different in terms of evolution, which I'm eager to see. I don't think many people know Zion was dug out by the Machines, even though the concept makes complete sense. The red doors are meant to resemble the red pods in the fields. I think it's brilliant – I hate the Matrix within a Matrix theories, and this strikes a nice balance. You get out of the Matrix, but even then, Zion was created by the Machines, and you're essentially still a slave staying in your new quarters.

Apparently The Twins are back too, which I really hope is true. It would fit with the Merovingian's return.
Matrix 4 sounds like a breath of fresh air for all the reasons you mention.

I was never a fan of the whole Matrix Within A Matrix fan theory. For one, it nullifies the peace Neo brokers at the end of Revolutions. For two, it's cheap BS that removes all drama and peril from the proceedings. For three, it makes Zion itself redundant since, as you say, Zion has already been factored into the machines' plans and was initially created by the machines. The MWAM theory basically renders the entire trilogy obsolete since the machines have basically won and that's that.

It is my understanding that the Wachowskis said from the start that all Matrix video games are genuine canon and that any future Matrix film (or whatever) would take the video games into account. That was said back in, like, 2004 or something. So it is possible that there are clues (or at least sign posts) in those video games that fans should consider.

There are also the rumors about time travel figuring into the story. They're making the rounds. Is it possible that machine hardliners went full Skynet by sending an assassin back in time to eliminate Morpheus before he could make contact with Trinity and Neo? That might explain his apparent absence from the film. Speaking of nullifying the entire trilogy, it simply seems a little too similar to Terminator. People can say anything they want about Reloaded and Revolutions. But one thing nobody can accuse the Wachowskis of is blatantly ripping off a hugely successful film series like Terminator.

Separately, there was apparently some kind of effort made to bring Hugo Weaving back as Smith. When it comes to the Red Skull, V, Elrond or others of Weaving's more famous characters, he's made it clear that he's not really interested in reprising any of those roles. He's done. But he has said (repeatedly) that he would happily return as Smith. And that was even the original plan! The issue, though, was that Weaving had a massive scheduling conflict with Matrix 4. And so, Weaving had to decline. For that reason alone, the character has been written out of the film. Nevertheless, I find it telling that Smith was originally intended to be included. One can only wonder what role he might've played.

And since COVID has thrown literally everything up into the air, who's to say that Smith might not appear in M4 after all?

One thing that I hope the movie at least touches upon is the history. From the looks of things, M4 is designed to move the characters and the story forward. You don't get there by dwelling too much upon the backstory. Still, there are many questions left unanswered in the trilogy, not least of which relate to the Merovingian's true identity/nature. His lust for power and control is self-evident. His function as a necessary evil that the machines and the rebels must accept is also obvious. But less obvious is what exactly his history is. Theories abound that the Merovingian is essentially the OS from Matrix ver. 2.0 (The Nightmare Matrix), hence his adamant refusal to account for the element of free will. It's an interesting theory (and one I happen to subscribe to, frankly) but specificity in this would be welcome. But not mandatory.

CGI, action scenes, gun battles, martial arts fights, etc, have all been done to death in action cinema recently. Specifically, it's a bit much to hope for something in M4 that's equally as culturally resonant as Bullet Time was in its day. Therefore, I don't need Another Bullet Time gimmick. Over and above everything, I would want the world to be expanded upon in a way that's just as invigorating as the sequels were.

And honestly, considering what Neo and Trinity sacrificed to bring about peace, I would want them to have some kind of happy ending.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 16 Sep  2020, 05:40
There are also the rumors about time travel figuring into the story. They're making the rounds. Is it possible that machine hardliners went full Skynet by sending an assassin back in time to eliminate Morpheus before he could make contact with Trinity and Neo? That might explain his apparent absence from the film. Speaking of nullifying the entire trilogy, it simply seems a little too similar to Terminator. People can say anything they want about Reloaded and Revolutions. But one thing nobody can accuse the Wachowskis of is blatantly ripping off a hugely successful film series like Terminator.
I don't think it would be time travel in the traditional sense. We're dealing with a computer system. It may be revisiting old versions of the Matrix, or Neo being shown information about the past, much like the training program scenes from the original. I'm up for any of that.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 16 Sep  2020, 05:40
Separately, there was apparently some kind of effort made to bring Hugo Weaving back as Smith. When it comes to the Red Skull, V, Elrond or others of Weaving's more famous characters, he's made it clear that he's not really interested in reprising any of those roles. He's done. But he has said (repeatedly) that he would happily return as Smith. And that was even the original plan! The issue, though, was that Weaving had a massive scheduling conflict with Matrix 4. And so, Weaving had to decline. For that reason alone, the character has been written out of the film. Nevertheless, I find it telling that Smith was originally intended to be included. One can only wonder what role he might've played.
I'm sure I've said here I'm actually happy Smith isn't coming back. Neo made a deal with the Machines to stop Smith. IMO the Machines are okay with shenanigans going on ala the Merovingian, but a system crash is where they draw the line. After what Smith did in the sixth cycle, permanent deletion of him makes complete sense. What he did was  catastrophic - why risk the slightest suggestion of that again? The culmination of Revolutions should mean something, rather than going down the Palpatine situation ala Rise of Skywalker.

Plus, I get the feeling Weaving is kind of difficult to deal with. Seems to me he was being difficult with money negotiations and voicing what he wanted, and Lana just substituted Smith with a new villain without much hassle. 

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 16 Sep  2020, 05:40
And honestly, considering what Neo and Trinity sacrificed to bring about peace, I would want them to have some kind of happy ending.
I harp on about DisneyWars but it's so true. I'd rather a couple die as a cherished memory for the fanbase than become Han and Leia of The Force Awakens. Doubling down on their love is going to warm the heart of Matrix fans. Their relationship is the core of the original film's concept, and then the sequel when Neo chooses the other door. 

Lana is saying the film has its roots in transgenderism. Keanu Reeves said he didn't know. I think it could have some merit, but is overstated. I believe Lana is trying to reclaim a sense of ownership of the franchise from conservatives who like the red pill trope. It doesn't really bother me too much, to be honest, because the themes are broad to the point Keanu and many others were oblivious. I do see perhaps the original concept of Switch being applied somewhere, though.

Enter the Matrix is a so-so video game, rushed, glitchy and unpolished. However, the story is quintessential to liking the sequel films, especially Revolutions, where things become emotionally distant if you cannot invest in Niobe, which you can't do without the game. She's a character that barely has a name in Reloaded, and suddenly, in Revolutions she becomes one of if not THE most important character. Revolutions' goal is to live out the quote 'the path of the one is made by the many.' In other words, the supporting cast are more important that the trio of stars because destiny is bull (the One is just another layer of control) so you have to make it yourself. Niobe is the conduit by which we invest in the many, and we can't do that without the HEAPING PILES of characterization that occur in the game. Her encounter with the Oracle is a set up moment that shouldn't have been held as an off screen occurrence in Revolutions. We need to see it, not only does it make the moment where she makes the choice to help Neo a bigger, more affecting payoff, it also provides a nice thesis moment (a primer) for what we are about see in Revolutions.

I have a lot to say about the Matrix (I'm a SUPER FAN), but those are my thoughts for now.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 16 Sep  2020, 14:59
I have a lot to say about the Matrix (I'm a SUPER FAN), but those are my thoughts for now.
I (and, I'm sure, TDK) look forward to more of your thoughts on this subject.

First, just another stab at my previous post:

One really important scene in Ener the Matrix (aside from Niobe and the Oracle) is the sequence when Niobe lets her armor come off (so to speak) when she returns home to Zion about midway through the game. She has a scene with Lock that gives one new insight into the relationship. It also bridges into the scene in the movie where Niobe volunteers to look for Morpheus. That this scene wasn't in the movie staggers me. I say that because it was years before I completed my copy of EtM (frustrating game) and doing so changed my entire (negative) view of Revolutions. Lock and Niobe in their quarters, two heavily armored personalities unshielded and loaded with character. What the hell were Lana and Lilly thinking?! This is the moment Niobe exists, and Lock, a cliche one-note heavy, is suddenly a real person. I still don't like him and I disagree with the choices he makes, but in the case of Niobe, he makes his choices for love. I respect him as a leader who has no choice but to forever be Morpheus' nemesis. It is his lot in life, and he must present a realistic alternative to lofty ideals about Christ figures who will solve everything with a wave of their hands.

Sexual Liberation:  Short version is that there are all kinds of liberations going on, I mean honestly...it's the Matrix.

The long version is that sexuality (in the Matrix, you joke makers) is one of the things I've become more interested in very recently. It began as an interest in the Merovingian, who is probably the most compelling character in the whole of the franchise, next to B116ER. I was thinking about what he does. As a gangster, he is a jack of many trades, many dealings, but the role of coyote for the machine exiles is of course paramount, but the full measure of its importance lies unexpressed (but present) in the background.

It is here that I need to connect two scenes. One is the Zion Orgy and the other is Club Hel. Both are expressions of sexual liberation. The humans express it in a united, earthy, hippie fest that is relaxed and groovy. The machines express it (and this is the kicker) as taboo. They fetishize humanity and its expressions as a kink. We are already aware that a (mostly unseen) rebellion is occurring within the machine society. The Oracle, Rama Kandra, Kamala, and Sati are the primary looks at it, but Club Hel is also an expression of that rebellion. Merv's position as an asshole is what taints it, but even Persphone once admitted that he was not always this way. It is entirely possible that he was a Neo kind of liberator for the machines before personal interest necessitated that he sell it for personal gain. Either way, a segment of machines are trying to get in touch with their human sides, but because the machine society has rebuked the humans as evil, the expression of it is fetishized as something naughty, something you don't want to be caught doing.

And all of this is important because it is part of the underlying story that (for lack of better phrasing) the machines have digital souls, they are, in fact human. To better understand this, we go back to the beginning, before the war.

The Second Renaissance (see Animatrix) begins with a summation, a concise characterizing of what the story is about. God created man and imbued him with life and so to did man imbue the machine with life. In the beginning, as a slave race, the machines looked human. As things went bad, the machines saw to it that as they gained their independence and freedom they shed what they considered to be the traits of their slavers wholesale, and in doing so set in motion the rebellion within. Humanity was inherent to the machine. They repressed it. Visually you see the transition as the Second Renaissance goes on. What was once human goes as far is it can to the other end of the spectrum of complex lifeforms. The most unhuman looking thing in the world is the spiderific creatures our eyes register as aberrations of what should be the reality. A dog and cat can be easily anthropomorphized because of the easy symmetry your eyes deduce.

Anyway, my point is the machines were human. It was inherent to them. They repressed it and it is exploding out in different ways at the time of the 6th One (I'm so freaking pretentious). The hierarchy of the machines is blind because they act like they are mathematicians, spocking out cold solutions with indifference and they yet cannot easily spot the meanness that lurks in the presentation. The hideous indignity of what's been done to the humans could only have been done by something, someone, that feels. They are blind to Smith, who is the most repressed tight ass in the world. There's a guy who needs to get in touch and have a drink at Club Hel.

Anyway, they'll be more to come...I'll talk about what I think 4 will be about and touch briefly on the trans stuff in the original trilogy.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 16 Sep  2020, 17:53
The long version is that sexuality (in the Matrix, you joke makers) is one of the things I've become more interested in very recently. It began as an interest in the Merovingian, who is probably the most compelling character in the whole of the franchise, next to B116ER. I was thinking about what he does. As a gangster, he is a jack of many trades, many dealings, but the role of coyote for the machine exiles is of course paramount, but the full measure of its importance lies unexpressed (but present) in the background.
Agreed. Of all the supporting characters in the film, he's instantly one of the most interesting. Lambert Wilson gave an electrifying performance but I think the character would still be a treasure trove even if a different, lesser actor played the part.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 16 Sep  2020, 17:53
It is here that I need to connect two scenes. One is the Zion Orgy and the other is Club Hel. Both are expressions of sexual liberation. The humans express it in a united, earthy, hippie fest that is relaxed and groovy. The machines express it (and this is the kicker) as taboo. They fetishize humanity and its expressions as a kink. We are already aware that a (mostly unseen) rebellion is occurring within the machine society. The Oracle, Rama Kandra, Kamala, and Sati are the primary looks at it, but Club Hel is also an expression of that rebellion. Merv's position as an asshole is what taints it, but even Persphone once admitted that he was not always this way. It is entirely possible that he was a Neo kind of liberator for the machines before personal interest necessitated that he sell it for personal gain. Either way, a segment of machines are trying to get in touch with their human sides, but because the machine society has rebuked the humans as evil, the expression of it is fetishized as something naughty, something you don't want to be caught doing.
We're going there, are we? Okay then.

Club Hel. As above, my view is that the Merovingian is the OS for Matrix 2.0. The Nightmare Matrix. This version follows after the Utopian Matrix (ver. 1.0) that Smith described in the first movie and precedes the version of the Matrix we see in all three films (ver. 2.0). The Nightmare Matrix basically featured people living out scripted, preassigned lives. They were compelled to obey no matter how much they didn't want to. Because the rules of this iteration of the Matrix were predicated upon cause and effect rather than free will. The Architect says "... but I was again frustrated by failure". So, obviously the Nightmare Matrix was unsuccessful just like the paradise version had been. The introduction of choice in ver. 3.0 resulted in a Matrix that was basically functional, tho still not quite perfect.

The Merovingian, the OS of the Nightmare Matrix, never really got over the amount of control and power he once wielded and has since lost. He wants it back. That desire for absolute control defines his every word and action. Looking around his chateau, it even determines a lot of his interior design as well as his staffing decisions.

Club Hel, as you say, is a fetishization of sexuality. Specifically, the Merovingian's vision of human sexuality. And I find it telling that the Merovingian's conception of sexuality is BDSM, which is defined by power and control. As a program in general and the Nightmare Matrix OS in particular, BDSM is probably the only way he can get his head around the idea of sexuality. In his mind, sex has to be about one person dominating another. I don't think he would understand (or be comfortable with) the idea of two people happily and willingly, ahem, giving themselves to each other. In his worldview, it doesn't work that way. It can't work that way. Because choice is a completely unthinkable concept to him. Hence, BDSM is probably the only expression of sexuality he can envision.

Which, not to put too fine a point on it, says rather a lot about his sex life with Persephone, assuming they have such a thing. And who knows?

To take things deeper, the Merovingian LARP's as a hedonist. But I think his anger is eating him alive. Deep down inside, he knows he was meant to be something bigger and better than an information broker, a coyote, a fetish nightclub owner, etc. Those things don't do justice to his grandeur. He wielded genuine power once and I don't think he'll ever stop trying to regain it.