X-Men: Dark Phoenix (2019)

Started by The Joker, Thu, 27 Sep 2018, 07:01

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FLASHBACK 1998:

Wizard Magazine takes a look back at the highly successful "X-Men #1" from 1991 with Chris Claremont and Jim Lee.



"Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humour was provided to console him for what he is."


FLASHBACK 1999:

Wizard Magazine article on what was being talked about thru the grapevine about the casting of the-then upcoming "X-Men" movie.



"Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humour was provided to console him for what he is."

Great find. It's interesting to contrast Singer's apparent humility with the first X-Men as compared to almost critical mass ego he displayed in the run up to Days Of Future Past.

Then again, DOFP is a vastly superior film to the first X-Men. So, maybe Singer with an out of control ego makes for a great X-Men film?

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue,  9 Apr  2024, 02:48Great find. It's interesting to contrast Singer's apparent humility with the first X-Men as compared to almost critical mass ego he displayed in the run up to Days Of Future Past.

Then again, DOFP is a vastly superior film to the first X-Men. So, maybe Singer with an out of control ego makes for a great X-Men film?

True.

I don't even hate X3, but it really makes you wonder what X3 would've been like with Singer, had he chosen to stay on rather than hop over to Warners for "Superman Returns". I'm sure Fox would have acquiesced to Singer's ego and demands considering his success with X1/X2. He pretty much had all the cards in his favor at that point.


"Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humour was provided to console him for what he is."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3qMtxYs1eY

I can't imagine Channing Tatum trying to pull off a cajun accent, being anything but comedy gold, but a Gambit film was actually in the cards, so to speak, once upon a time.


"Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humour was provided to console him for what he is."

Mon, 6 May 2024, 02:25 #65 Last Edit: Mon, 6 May 2024, 02:28 by The Joker
Another Wizard Magazine X-Men fan casting that goes back to 1995 (probably 1994 given it was a Jan 1995 issue)!





Not going to lie, Wizard really makes me wish that Bryan Singer would have included Tia Carrere as Psylocke in either X1, or X2. Though, a mid-90's X-Men movie where Tia appears as Psylocke is just about as perfect casting as Patrick Stewart was with Professor X quite frankly.

The one casting that sticks out, is Clint Eastwood as Cable. Not bad, BTW. As I could envision Clint during the mid 1990's, being a great Cable, but I don't think he would have ever agreed to playing 2nd, or 3rd fiddle as a supporting player. Definitely not in that stage of his career. Unless the film would have been Cable-centric, and that would have felt very off for X-Men's first ever cinematic movie.

Admittedly, I like the idea of Rutger Hauer as Magneto. At the same time, given the restraints of a movie running time and having to introduce so many characters, in addition to plot, within a film that would have introduced the X-Men concept to the general audiences, Rutger as Magneto comes across as cinematic depiction that's going for something decidedly more in line with the Stan Lee/Jack Kirby original representation, than the Holocaust survivor Chris Claremont incorporated in the character's background/origin. 

If you read those 1960s/1970s X-Men comics prior to Chris Claremont, Magneto was basically a cipher. As nothing about his background, or ethnic heritage was ever revealed. Nor was there anything about his family. And absolutely no question of him being "noble" in any sort of way. Magneto, as originally depicted, was the complete opposite of Xavier. He was, in a nutshell, a complete and unabashed son of a b*tch that wanted to enslave humans (and probably mutants as well given his excessive fanatical personality). I've seen videos and such of people comparing Magneto to Malcolm X, and I just see that as being pure and simple revisionist history. Pick up a Marvel X-Men Essential/Epic/Masterworks trade of the Lee/Kirby era, or even the material following both their departures from the book prior to Claremont's X-Men era, and tell me with a straight face that's a apt comparison. Something tells me Malcolm X would have found that comparison unflattering to say the very least, and for good reason!

In short, concerning the Silver Age Magneto, and with both Stan Lee and Jack Kirby being Jewish, I believe both purposely infused their version of Magneto with the mental state and imagery that was clearly more aligned with nazi idealogy, and ultimately unmistakable shorthand for "This guy is the worst kind of bad."

I still remember when Grant Morrison was wrapping up his "New X-Men" run back in 2003 with "Planet X", Morrison had Magneto absolutely wrecking New York, effectively making him a mass-murderer (only a few years after 9/11, BTW), and the online reaction was something to the effect of, "Morrison is bringing back Magneto to his Silver Age roots!!!".

Admittedly, I didn't completely understand this at the time, given that I had only read very few Pre-Chris Claremont X-Men issues, but now having the Epic Collections of all that Silver/Bronze age material, I know exactly what they meant.

So yeah, Rutger Hauer playing the Lee/Kirby Magneto in the mid-90's?

I'm sure Rutger would have made that work.



"Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humour was provided to console him for what he is."

Mon, 6 May 2024, 03:56 #66 Last Edit: Tue, 7 May 2024, 04:17 by thecolorsblend
I have that issue on my bookcase. Even back then, I disagreed with casting Clancy Brown as Sabretooth. He would've been a great Magneto... if Rutger Hauer has other obligations going on. But Hauer is already accounted for, I love Brown but I don't see much else for him in an X-Men movie.

I thought Singer got it right by casting a wrestler in that role. At 6'9", ~270 lbs and built like a brick $#!+ house, it's hard to argue against Tyler Mane. But if not him, then some other super jacked wrestler should've gotten the gig.

Maybe it's because I grew up with the animated series, but I always preferred the more physically imposing depictions of Magneto over the frail old man we got in the movies. Hauer looked closer to how I envisage the character in live action. After watching Blind Fury (1989) earlier this year, I'd also keep him on the shortlist for a 1980s Matt Murdock.


But really he was a better physical match for Magneto than Daredevil. As discussed in other threads, he also would've been my top pick of Adrian Veidt in a 1980s Watchmen film.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon,  6 May  2024, 03:56I have that issue on my bookcase. Even back then, I disagreed with casting Clancy Brown as Sabretooth. He would've been a great Magneto... if Rutger Hauer has other obligations going on. But Hauer is already accounted for, I love Brown but I don't see much else for him in an X-Men movie.

Brown's performance as the Kurgan ranks as one of the most intimidating movie villains of the eighties. If you wanted a younger and more menacing version of Magneto, Brown's voice and height alone would've qualified him.


Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon,  6 May  2024, 17:34Brown's performance as the Kurgan ranks as one of the most intimidating movie villains of the eighties. If you wanted a younger and more menacing version of Magneto, Brown's voice and height alone would've qualified him.
I didn't want something too long in my last post.

But since you mention it, one thing I did want to draw attention to is Magneto as envisioned by Lee/Kirby vs. Magneto as interpreted by Claremont.

Lee/Kirby pretty obviously intended Magneto to be Super-Nazi. He's the Superior Man out to bring the world to its knees because he believes his power gives him the right to do so. Considering Lee/Kirby were both Jewish, it makes a lot of sense that the Nazis loomed large in their imaginations. Reading those early Lee/Kirby X-Men issues, it's hard to escape the idea that Magneto is basically Super Hitler. The metaphor of Nazis is barely a metaphor in their approach to the character.

Claremont obviously wanted to go in a different direction. Magneto was as physically imposing as ever. But he had that sympathetic backstory of being a survivor. He knew only too well what mankind was capable of doing to each other and certainly to him. As you know, he sees his war against the human race as a preemptive strike in an inevitable war. His history creates an intriguing irony to the character that he wants to subjugate and ultimately exterminate his would-be exterminators. So, what is the moral difference between him and the people who have persecuted him?

We should also mention McKellan's performance. It's fine for the films that he appeared in. But you are correct when you say that McKellan's Magneto and comic book Magneto have very little in common aside from a name and a backstory. I have become concerned that McKellan's portrayal of the character will "haunt" future live action incarnations. Rather than being the physically imposing powerhouse that Magneto was intended to be (and was consistently drawn as for all or most of his publication history), future live action performances are very likely to somewhat emulate McKellan's casting.

Maybe that's inevitable if his World War II history remains an unbreakable aspect of Magneto's canon?

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue,  7 May  2024, 04:27I thought Singer got it right by casting a wrestler in that role. At 6'9", ~270 lbs and built like a brick $#!+ house, it's hard to argue against Tyler Mane. But if not him, then some other super jacked wrestler should've gotten the gig.

Kevin Nash has stated that he was, apparently, the first choice for Sabretooth, but declined when he found out that he would essentially be taking a substantial pay cut to participate in the film, for the months off needed from active wrestling.

Nash did briefly portray Super Shredder back in 1991, and later appeared as "The Russian" in the 2004 Thomas Jane Punisher movie.


QuoteBut since you mention it, one thing I did want to draw attention to is Magneto as envisioned by Lee/Kirby vs. Magneto as interpreted by Claremont.

Lee/Kirby pretty obviously intended Magneto to be Super-Nazi. He's the Superior Man out to bring the world to its knees because he believes his power gives him the right to do so. Considering Lee/Kirby were both Jewish, it makes a lot of sense that the Nazis loomed large in their imaginations. Reading those early Lee/Kirby X-Men issues, it's hard to escape the idea that Magneto is basically Super Hitler. The metaphor of Nazis is barely a metaphor in their approach to the character.

Right. Exactly. As much as some people want to memory hole this fact, Magneto, as originally intended by Lee/Kirby, was Super Hitler. People tend to forget the generation Stan and Jack came from, and the Nazis were the models for a whole lot of villains back in those days. His counterpart, Professor X, is the good guy in a wheelchair. Pretty clear what's going on there.


QuoteClaremont obviously wanted to go in a different direction. Magneto was as physically imposing as ever. But he had that sympathetic backstory of being a survivor. He knew only too well what mankind was capable of doing to each other and certainly to him. As you know, he sees his war against the human race as a preemptive strike in an inevitable war. His history creates an intriguing irony to the character that he wants to subjugate and ultimately exterminate his would-be exterminators. So, what is the moral difference between him and the people who have persecuted him?

Yes, indeed. Magneto starting out as a ruthless killer, to something of a "freedom fighter", has been baked into the cake for nearly 50 years now. As such, Mags worldview is a testament to the ultimate "tragic irony" of the character.

QuoteWe should also mention McKellan's performance. It's fine for the films that he appeared in. But you are correct when you say that McKellan's Magneto and comic book Magneto have very little in common aside from a name and a backstory. I have become concerned that McKellan's portrayal of the character will "haunt" future live action incarnations. Rather than being the physically imposing powerhouse that Magneto was intended to be (and was consistently drawn as for all or most of his publication history), future live action performances are very likely to somewhat emulate McKellan's casting.

Maybe that's inevitable if his World War II history remains an unbreakable aspect of Magneto's canon?

Only way around a senior citizen Magneto for the movies, that I can think of, is that supposedly mags is a geneticist to some extent in the comics. If you have Magneto state in the film that he was successful in slowing down the natural ageing process, this could be used to illustrate, in his mind, more credence that mutants are just that much better than neanderthal humans. Another possibility, is that he sorta feeds off Earth's magnetic field, which in turn slows down his ageing. Because ... well ... comics.

Personally, I'd rather Magneto remain as holocaust survivor, since, again, it's been baked in the cake for quite awhile now. From what I gather from the comics, and have read online, Claremont was originally intending to have Magneto's background be that of a gypsy, but the Fantastic Four people vetoed the idea because it was just too similar to Doctor Doom's background. Thus, the holocaust survivor origin was born. Which pretty much quickly changed his demeanor from "killer" to "sympathetic shades of grey mutant freedom fighter", and essentially ignored the previous more villainous maniacal portrayal from the Lee/Kirby and even Neal Adams days.


"Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humour was provided to console him for what he is."