Arrow (2012 TV Series)

[BatmAngelus]

This show is still not matching the level of the first couple seasons.

Oliver may be Green Arrow now but there's absolutely nothing new about his methods that distinguish him from the Arrow. He even says "You have failed this city." He also doesn't seem to be nearly as good of a fighter as he was before. He needed Diggle to save him in ep 1, needed Thea's help in ep 2 to defeat Anarky, and got stabbed in the back and needed Lance to give a speech to help in ep 4. This whole transformation from Arrow to Green Arrow just feels unearned right now.

Constantine was a welcome addition last week and I think Damien Darhk's been a good villain, but other than that, the flashbacks are pointless now (other than introducing how Oliver knew Constantine) and the episodes have just felt like set up for Legends of Tomorrow in bringing Sara back from the dead (again) and getting Ray Palmer back.

They explored little of Sara's actual resurrection. No reactions to Laurel taking up the Black Canary outfit, Thea being forced to kill her by Merlyn, Oliver being with Felicity now, etc. This would've been a lot more worthwhile than an episode around Oliver, Felicity, and her mom. It really felt like there was a missing episode in between here.

Overall, Arrow seems to have a big problem with keeping people dead. Here's all the people who were believed dead but either turned out to be alive or were resurrected:
Oliver Queen
Sara Lance
Slade Wilson
Thea Queen
Roy Harper
Malcolm Merlyn
Deadshot
Ray Palmer
And now, even Diggle's brother is still alive!

[The Laughing Fish]

This show is still not matching the level of the first couple seasons.

Truthfully, I gave up on the show after last season, and from what I've read in your post, it doesn't make me want to return and watch future episodes any time soon. Although I haven't had the time to watch any of this season's Flash other than the first episode. 

[thecolorsblend]

Truthfully, I gave up on the show after last season, and from what I've read in your post, it doesn't make me want to return and watch future episodes any time soon. Although I haven't had the time to watch any of this season's Flash other than the first episode. 

You'll want to catch up on the Flash when you have some time. This season is a serious punch in the nards so far. It continues the first season but twists it too.

I'll be honest, the show does stuff you just don't expect from a TV show dependent upon adhering to a status quo. Berlanti will wipe his ass with the status quo if he needs to. He did that a couple of times in the first season and, not to spoil anything, it happens again in the second season.

As to Arrow, it's just stupid fun. I enjoy it on that basis. Plus I like seeing Laurel in that black leather outfit. She can kick my ass any time she wants. Mmm...

So yeah. I'll be right back.

Okay I'm back now. Anyway, Arrow is fun, brainless entertainment. It's not the living comic book that Flash is and it doesn't need to be. Quite enjoyable.

[BatmAngelus]

Felicity Smoak and the show's pandering to Tumblr's "Olicity" audience is absolutely murdering this show and it's been that way ever since Season 3. But none moreso than last night's episode, which was one of the more solid episodes in awhile, in my opinion, that was  ruined by this character throughout.

A strong crossover with Vixen, flashback scenes that were actually intriguing for the first time since Constantine's episode, a real progression in the plot with Damien Darkh stripped of his powers and arrested, and a hell of an emotional speech from Oliver in his message to his son...

...which promptly gets ruined by Felicity rolling in and whining to Oliver about not being told about his secret kid, despite knowing that Samantha forced him into not telling anyone. Not to mention literally all the other characters in the show had a more mature reaction to being kept out of it...probably 'cause, I don't know, maybe they recognized this was none of their damn business? This is also an episode directly after Felicity advises her mom that people have to keep secrets to protect people. If she really believed that, she should have understood after getting the rundown from Oliver and Samantha. Clearly she doesn't. Also, I'm sure Felicity shares everything about her life as Overwatch to her mom...yeah right...

The character has become a whiny hypocrite, wasting screen time from a show that used to be about people overcoming obstacles and battling their inner demons. Now, it's about a guy who's worried about his girlfriend and her "crucible" in getting paralyzed is something that gets solved in just a few episodes. 

Felicity Smoak has hijacked the show. Examples: A two episode arc about her father with little tie into the Damien Darkh plot. Subplots about her and her mother that usually barely tie into the rest of the story. Last week's episode she literally interrupts Oliver from going after Darkh's wife so she could show him what the invites look like for the engagement party.

None of which I've found ways to give a crap about. We didn't even get an episode of Sara reacting to her sister being the Black Canary. Someone on reddit pointed out that we got to see Felicity's presentation to Palmer Tech on Curtis Holt's battery, but we saw zero of Oliver's debate with Ruve. Is this still Oliver's show? Clearly not, the writers are so in love with this character that the show has been dedicated to her now.

Felicity was a highlight of Seasons 1 and 2 when she was a supporting character and comic relief.

Now, as the female lead, she's the albatross and the worst part of it.

I'm not the only one who's noticed. Laughing Fish quit the show because of it.
Fans wrote articles about it:
http://thearrowverse.com/up-in-smoak-my-thoughts-on-felicity-smoak/
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/dc_tv/arrow/why-olicity-is-killing-arrow-a119361

I wish Darkh had succeeded in killing her off in Christmas.

I wish that Felicity walking out at the end would be the end of the character.

But obviously, we know she'll be back. Hell, the showrunner himself spoiled that with a picture showing that Felicity and Oliver at least make it up to the alter, completely undermining the "What's going to happen next?' feeling that we were probably meant to have at the end of this episode. They're so preoccupied with hyping up the Tumblr crowd of fan girls that they undermine and spoil their own soap opera drama.

This is entirely the fault of the showrunners and not Emily Bett Rickards, who is going off of what's written but is simply not able to make her emotional scenes endearing rather than annoying. I think the character is past the point of no return.

Write her out this season. If you need a tech person from Palmer Tech, use Curtis Holt, who's already smarter and way less annoying and won't give us any of this romance drama.

Get this show back to what this was really about: Oliver Queen. And if you want to do romance, start giving us the Green Arrow-Black Canary relationship. You know, the one that's actually from the comics...

EDIT: On a side note, I wish they had used Sandra and Connor Hawke instead of original characters for the mother and child. This would've required using a black actress back in Season 2 for the flashback and a multi-racial kid for Connor, but how much more emotional would this episode be for us if we knew that Connor would become inspired by being rescued by Green Arrow and grow up to take his mantle years later? Then, on Legends of Tomorrow this very same week, we'd get to see him in a future where he's got the costume and, presumably, heard Oliver's message when he turned 18.

[The Laughing Fish]

A strong crossover with Vixen, flashback scenes that were actually intriguing for the first time since Constantine's episode, a real progression in the plot with Damien Darkh stripped of his powers and arrested, and a hell of an emotional speech from Oliver in his message to his son...

...which promptly gets ruined by Felicity rolling in and whining to Oliver about not being told about his secret kid, despite knowing that Samantha forced him into not telling anyone.

A similar situation happened earlier this season on The Flash, during the crossover episode with Arrow. Felicity whined how Oliver is still keeping secrets from her, they break up, and this causes Oliver to get distracted and makes a terrible tactical decision when dealing with Vandal Savage. This results getting everyone in Star City killed. Thankfully, Barry was able to change the timeline and start all over.

Rather than complaining about how the show is a shadow of its former self, I'm going to list down my top five episodes during its whole run up to now:

• Three Ghosts (Season 2) - Barry saves Oliver's life following his near death experience with Cyrus Gold, but Oliver is poisoned by Mirakuru and hallucinates the ghosts of his friends Slade, Shado and Tommy. Oliver overcomes his guilt following his final conversation with Tommy, and rescues Roy from Gold and Brother Blood. I liked the end of the episode where we see Barry's origin story as the Flash come to life, and Oliver reaches a milestone where he takes up the mask.
  


• The Undertaking (Season 1)- I liked how Oliver and Felicity infiltrated the casino in their search for Walter Steele, and Oliver comes to Felicity's rescue when she was in trouble. Mind you, this was long before Felicity became a royal pain in the ass and was still the quirky fun girl.
  
  I loved the alley fight scene where Oliver rescues Walter in Blüdhaven. Now, it might looked tame compared to Daredevil's Season 1 alley fight scene, but I still look back getting wowed at how Oliver is so ferocious at those thugs.
  
  But the biggest reason why I like this episode is we see why Malcolm Merlyn wants to destroy the Glades. He feels he has done everything he could to restore the suburb through legitimate means, but believes that place is rotten to the core and seeks to destroy everything within it to start over. It's a backstory that's based on revenge and tragedy, as he justifies that the Glades have taken everything from good people: Merlyn's wife, Robert Queen's innocence, Frank Chen's daughter and so on. Of course, we see the betrayal behind the story, as Frank was responsible for tipping off Merlyn to Robert's desire to expose the Undertaking and sabotages the Queen's Gambit that doomed Robert and condemned Oliver to be missing for five years.


• Sacrifice - The Season 1 finale where Merlyn is exposed for planning to destroy the Glades, and everything comes ahead. It had a ballsy ending where Merlyn tricked everyone by keeping a second earthquake device, but his desire for revenge costs him his son Tommy. In the island flashbacks, Oliver completes his transformation from scared rich douchebag to fearless warrior and survivor, as he and he stops Fyers' plans to destroy the Chinese economy. You can tell by Slade Wilson's expression in the end that he had a new found respect for Oliver compared to when they first met.


• The Brave and the Bold (Season 3) - For me, the best and only really good episode of Season 3 by far. We get to see Arrow and Flash join forces, and you can see the differences between Barry and Oliver's approaches - and Barry has issues with how dark Oliver can be. Similar to how Superman and Batman don't see eye to eye. Thankfully the two put their differences aside to stop Captain Boomerang, for the city and Lyla Michaels' sake.


• City of Heroes (Season 1) - The first episode of Season 2, as Oliver returns home from his self-imposed exile from Starling City following the Glades failure. The copycats have taken inspiration from the Hood in the worst possible way, and Oliver goes after them to rescue Thea. It was a real turning point for him as he reinvents himself as a hero reborn and adopts his no-kill policy. It should be noted that the Three Ghosts episode had Sebastian Blood revealing that he hired the copycats to kill the current mayor so he could run for his election campaign.

[The Laughing Fish]

After watching Will Smith's performance as Floyd Lawton/Deadshot in Suicide Squad, I'm looking back at how Arrow handled the character.

I noticed that Deadshot underwent massive - even bizarre - changes during the first two seasons. In Season 1, Lawton isn't simply a hitman for hire, he comes across as a tattooed version of Victor Zsasz. He has his victims' names inked all over his body and seems to take pleasure in what he does, as he indicates reserving a spot for John Diggle on one occasion.

But as Diggle joins Amanda Waller's Suicide Squad and confronts Lawton again in Season 2, Deadshot's characterisation was changed completely. It's revealed that he uses the money he earns from contract killing to fund for his daughter Zoe, and from that point on, the show goes from depicting him as a psychopath to a sympathetic tragic villain. It was really forced, and wasn't believable. Furthermore, Season 3 shows Lawton's backstory, where he had been suffering from PTSD after he was discharged from Afghanistan (?) and suffers from behavioral problems at home, and gets arrested for domestic violence. Until he was bailed out by HIVE.

Frankly, I thought the movie version was handled much better. While I appreciate Arrow tried to give Deadshot a heroic send-off (until he was later resurrected, apparently), I think the movie did a better job at handling how Lawton wanted to redeem himself in the eyes of his own daughter, and was a better example of how a criminal could still have a bit of heart.

[thecolorsblend]

Overall, Arrow seems to have a big problem with keeping people dead. Here's all the people who were believed dead but either turned out to be alive or were resurrected:
Oliver Queen
Sara Lance
Slade Wilson
Thea Queen
Roy Harper
Malcolm Merlyn
Deadshot
Ray Palmer
And now, even Diggle's brother is still alive!

LOL! It would appear that your list needs to be updated.

This show is still not matching the level of the first couple seasons.

I noticed that Deadshot underwent massive - even bizarre - changes during the first two seasons.

I've read people say that Berlanti basically redeveloped the entire show after some point in the first season and then again after the second season. I haven't watched those seasons. I basically watch when there's a new episode now but I couldn't care less about seeing all the seasons. But Neal Adams and others have said that the show radically transformed after a certain point and stuff like the above comments make me believe that pretty easily since it sounds nothing like the show I watch now.

[The Laughing Fish]

I've read people say that Berlanti basically redeveloped the entire show after some point in the first season and then again after the second season. I haven't watched those seasons. I basically watch when there's a new episode now but I couldn't care less about seeing all the seasons. But Neal Adams and others have said that the show radically transformed after a certain point and stuff like the above comments make me believe that pretty easily since it sounds nothing like the show I watch now.

From what I understood, Greg Berlanti and Andrew Kreisberg began to shift their focus on The Flash as soon as that show started, and gave Marc Guggenheim showrunner responsibilities for Arrow Season 3 and beyond. The changes definitely continued, but for the worst.