Batman- Dead to Rights

Started by thecolorsblend, Thu, 20 Apr 2017, 22:20

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The down and dirty for Dead to Rights can be found at http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Batman:_Dead_to_Rights_(Collected) if anyone is interested.

The long and the short of it though is that I seriously LOVED this comic. I read it for the first time in trade format last night and I was hooked from the start. It basically tells a story (of dubious continuity) after the Joker's first arrest. What he did to get arrested is actually kind of incidental. The bigger issue is how unprepared GCPD was to jail him and the DA's office was to prosecute him.

What probably works best for me about DTR is how it hits a similar beat as TDK. See, to me the Joker being around should always cause havoc and chaos. And this story GETS that. One thing I love about TDK is the pandemonium of it all. The Joker calls in the bomb threat to a hospital and all hell breaks loose. Same type of thing here. The Joker is handcuffed, he's tossed in the back of police cars, he's put on trial, but literally nobody is ever safe. If he's not killing somebody at the moment, it's because he doesn't want to. He kills somebody in the story just by making one phone call.

But he's never shown to be a demented weirdo about it. He kills because he thinks it's funny. He kills somebody else in the story with a peanut because he thought it would be amusing to do so. That's it! No bigger reason, really.

A lot of writers try turning the Joker into a serial killer, basically. And to me, that's wrongheaded. Yeah, human life means nothing to the Joker. But he doesn't take life arbitrarily. Hell, he may not even take life with malice. Rather, he kills because he sees an opportunity for comedy. Sick, twisted, insane comedy. But comedy nevertheless.

The Joker recognized that his murder weapons (the telephone for one victim and a peanut for the other) were literally both victims' worst nightmares. There was literally no better way to murder them so that's the way he chose... because it's funny (to him) to kill them that way. He might have spared them if all he had available was a gun.

Though maybe not.

Also, the art is done by Scott McDaniel. I'm a McDaniel fanboy from way back so he's always welcome as far as I'm concerned.

If I had to fit Dead to Right into my head-canon, to me this is the aftermath of 'Images' from Legends of the Dark Knight #50. It might not be a perfect fit. But in my mind Images is Batman's definitive first encounter with the Joker. And so DTR is the aftermath of Images.

To circle back to TDK for a moment, I can't help thinking there's some TDK-influence going on here. Because in the jail, the Joker tells Batman "You complete me". It seems a little too coincidental.

Anyway, not sure if any of the rest of you have ever read this story but it's definitely worth picking up.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 20 Apr  2017, 22:20
A lot of writers try turning the Joker into a serial killer, basically. And to me, that's wrongheaded. Yeah, human life means nothing to the Joker. But he doesn't take life arbitrarily. Hell, he may not even take life with malice. Rather, he kills because he sees an opportunity for comedy. Sick, twisted, insane comedy. But comedy nevertheless.
Agreed. My ideal Joker usually has a plan at the time but he's all about the joke. That's Romero's Joker through and through. He's looking to achieve his goal but has a good old giggle in the process. Sure, the Joker kills people. But I don't think it's just the act of killing, but the manner in which he wants to kill. Romero's Joker wants Batman and Robin to be eaten alive by a giant clam, because he argues not feeding a hungry clam would be cruelty to animals. Sometimes it may not even be about the plan. The plan can just a vehicle to have fun. Some incarnations of the character seemingly forget or deliberately downplay the fact this character is a clown. That's not the case with Romero. He's also the anti-Batman in the sense he has his own version of the utility belt. He's not just a killer. He's the Joker.

Since you mention it, it's interesting how ridiculously well Caesar Romero's Joker has aged. For its time, it was pretty accurate to the comics. And even generally, he's still on the right trajectory. Basically the only thing Romero's Joker doesn't do which he should by modern standards is take life. Otherwise, he's pretty much on target.

Another reason to love Romero's Joker is he committed crimes. At some point, the Joker became a mass murderer or something. But he's supposed to be a criminal. I don't enjoy several aspects of A Death in the Family but the Joker steals a missile and sells it to terrorists. I don't even want to know how many crimes he committed to do that. But the point is he committed crimes. He didn't just run around killing people.

*sigh*

I am become an old fuddy-duddy, the destroyer of fandom.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 24 Apr  2017, 06:35
Basically the only thing Romero's Joker doesn't do which he should by modern standards is take life.
He did leave Batman and Robin in deathtraps fully intending to take their lives. In the 66 movie, a goon was killed when he accidentally triggered Joker's jack in box which was intended for Batman. The poor soul was launched into the Penguin's exploding octopus and blew to bits. That has to count for something, especially considering the tone of the show. Romero's Joker also entered Wayne Manor by holding a pistol to young woman's head. He then pointed the gun at Aunt Harriet and said "one peep out of you and I'll blow your head off."
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 24 Apr  2017, 06:35
Another reason to love Romero's Joker is he committed crimes. At some point, the Joker became a mass murderer or something. But he's supposed to be a criminal. I don't enjoy several aspects of A Death in the Family but the Joker steals a missile and sells it to terrorists. I don't even want to know how many crimes he committed to do that. But the point is he committed crimes. He didn't just run around killing people.
Committing crimes based on the signs of the Zodiac. Stealing the famous Renaissance art collection for ransom. Turning Gotham's water supply into jelly.  Trying to take over Gotham City with a flying saucer. Those are the acts of a criminal. It's a toss up between Romero and Nicholson these days.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 24 Apr  2017, 07:16It's a toss up between Romero and Nicholson these days.
The one Joker whom I don't think has really asserted himself yet is Leto. I've only seen Suicide Squad once but I don't recall Leto doing anything where I thought "Man, that's EXACTLY what the Joker would do." Admittedly, there's a long game going on with Leto that wasn't really an option for Nicholson. Vis a vis sequels. But so far, Leto's Joker is rock solid as far as performance, quirks, mannerisms and all that. He's got the character down, no doubts there. But the characterization is lacking. The Leto Joker's actual deeds are decidedly un-Joker.

This needs to change. Right now, the DCEU Batman has the potential to be definitive. I don't want it to get squandered.

Romero is the most fun. I can tell he's having a good time. I also really enjoy his smug elitism. The vibe that he's the clown prince of crime and that's that. Romero also had an ability to turn nasty when someone challenged him.

Nicholson is great because he's an elevated version of Romero in that he's just that bit darker. He vandalises an art gallery like Romero, but only after gassing everyone. He uses hand buzzers on people, but his buzzer turns the victim into a fried corpse, who he then has a conversation with.

Leto? I honestly can't summon the passion to mention much about him right now.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 24 Apr  2017, 06:35I am become an old fuddy-duddy, the destroyer of fandom.

That makes two of us.

Romero is rapidly becoming my favourite live action Joker these days. This in another one of those things I flip flop over depending on my mood, but lately the sixties Joker has struck more of a cord with me. Jerry Robinson once pointed out that Romero was physically closest to the comic book Joker of all the actors who've played him. And he was by far the funniest IMO. He had the look, the gadgets, the sense of humour. The moustache was just the icing on the cake. He was also a great match for West, both in terms of chemistry and physicality. And of course his personality and modus operandi were very faithful to the comics; specifically the 1940-1968 era.

I also admire Nicholson and Ledger's interpretations tremendously, and I see theirs and Romero's performances as constituting a trilogy that encompasses the totality of the character: the comedian, the prankster, the sadist, the crime boss, the terrorist, the troublemaker, the genius and the madman. It's interesting that each performance is separated by approximately twenty years: Romero last played the Joker in 1968, Nicholson played him in 1989, and Ledger played him in 2008. When you take these three different interpretations – each excellent in their own way – and add Hamill's wonderful performance to the mix, you've basically covered all the bases. As far as doing the character justice on screen, I'm happy with these four classic Jokers. I'd rather they focused on other villains in future films and TV shows. Let's see interesting new takes on Mr. Freeze, the Riddler, Scarecrow and Ra's al Ghul.

Mon, 24 Apr 2017, 22:32 #7 Last Edit: Tue, 25 Apr 2017, 08:54 by The Dark Knight
Yep. Romero is probably my Joker of choice these days. Romero's take isn't completely devoid of depth either. It's simple but that's all it needs to be. He's a man who needs to keep the jokes flowing in his life to stay happy. Take this clip for instance:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hWvcrcYMLB4
With 19 appearances on the TV show and one film appearance, he has plenty of live action material under his belt. More than any other cinematic Joker. It's interesting to note his theme is somewhat similar to what Zimmer created for Ledger. Romero's theme isn't comedic, it's devious and dastardly to announce bad news has arrived. Ledger's isn't comedic either - it's clanging and banging to emphasize his anarchy.


Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 24 Apr  2017, 11:25
Leto? I honestly can't summon the passion to mention much about him right now.

As discussed many times already, Leto was wasted. There's no question about it.

I don't believe David Ayer is telling the truth that the theatrical cut was exactly what he intended all along. But for argument's sake, let's say he is. I think it would've made a lot of sense if Joker's involvement in Suicide Squad was kept as a secret, not advertising Leto as second billing in the credits, and only show him in Harley's backstory and breaking her out of prison in the end. And completely remove that pointless subplot where he failed to capture her during the film. The Joker would've been more of a pleasant surprise for the audience, and it might've increased people's anticipation when he appears next time.

It's not too late though. Leto can still come back and have more of an impact.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 24 Apr  2017, 22:32Yep. Romero is probably my Joker of choice these days. Romero's take isn't completely devoid of depth either. It's simple but that's all it needs to be. He's a man who needs to keep the jokes flowing in his life to stay happy. Take this clip for instance:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hWvcrcYMLB4
Holy crap, that scene is damned near perfect. He mourns, he celebrates, he jokes, he laughs, he rushes off to the next thing with an ADD-level of forgetfulness about what just happened seconds earlier. I mean... it's perfect!