The Penguin's election campaign

[johnnygobbs]

It's just a shame that it's become so politicised since.

Poor little victim, did you get triggered?[/quote]No need to be hostile.

I was being respectful to The Laughing Fish and saying it wasn't his fault that the thread became politicised.  I wasn't absolving myself of any blame (although if I am at all to blame, then the blame is surely shared).

[The Laughing Fish]

I was watching the scene where Schreck introduces Penguin his election campaign with Tim Burton's commentary. Burton described the scene where in contrast to the dark visuals seen in the rest of the movie, he wanted to show how the brightly lit the office was with cheerful young "Republican" volunteers greeting Penguin to give a positive vibe, as aspiring political campaigns often do.

Burton didn't mention anything that hadn't been revealed before: he noted the controversy surrounding Penguin's vulgarity at the time, particularly in this scene where he made a crude remark at a female secretary and biting the yuppie's nose. But I wonder if there was any controversy when Penguin spat out that cigarette holder among comic fans? Did people think this was Burton's way of making fun of the Penguin's trademark features?

[Catwoman]

The Penguin groped a college girl in full view of the local media and nobody batted an eyelash over it. Even the college girl seemed to pretty much roll with it.

I reread this thread (bad idea) and came to this post and it got me thinking (also a bad idea).

She seemed like she was getting a little uncomfortable with it, but remember this is the poor abandoned bird man from the sewers. Maybe she thought he was just struggling to get it on and didn't want him to feel worse by squawking (pun totally intended). Or maybe she was starting to get an idea of what was up (and where, namely below Oswald's belt) but like she said, he was her role model (I didn't buy that sh*t for a second but maybe the actress just didn't sell it) so maybe it was one of those rose colored glasses moments.

"Ohhh a button, and he's going to put it on me! HE, Oliver Coconut, is going to put it on ME! THIS IS SO GREAT.....this is great.....this is.....um.....uh....his features are so distinguished.....little to the left buddy....little more....maybe he don't know left from right....ow, that's my nipple.....he knows THAT....ok it's on......no it isn't.....THERE we go. This is great!"

[johnnygobbs]

I reread this thread (bad idea) and came to this post and it got me thinking (also a bad idea).

She seemed like she was getting a little uncomfortable with it, but remember this is the poor abandoned bird man from the sewers. Maybe she thought he was just struggling to get it on and didn't want him to feel worse by squawking (pun totally intended). Or maybe she was starting to get an idea of what was up (and where, namely below Oswald's belt) but like she said, he was her role model (I didn't buy that sh*t for a second but maybe the actress just didn't sell it) so maybe it was one of those rose colored glasses moments.

"Ohhh a button, and he's going to put it on me! HE, Oliver Coconut, is going to put it on ME! THIS IS SO GREAT.....this is great.....this is.....um.....uh....his features are so distinguished.....little to the left buddy....little more....maybe he don't know left from right....ow, that's my nipple.....he knows THAT....ok it's on......no it isn't.....THERE we go. This is great!"

It's very easy for me to make parallels between The Penguin and a certain recently elected world leader, but I know that peeves a lot of people off here.

So, I'm going to offer a different perspective on The Penguin's gross behaviour and everyone's (initial) acceptance of it that the more conservative folk on this site might be able to get behind.

The way the 'Volunteer Bimbo' cheerfully accepted The Penguin's blatant sexual assault reminds me a little of the way certain sexual crimes have been effectively excused in parts of Europe, on account of 'cultural differences'.  I've read of various instances where rape victims have refused to condemn their attackers on account of them being refugees, and I've also read that a Swedish Chief of Police recently advised young women to take more responsibility for their own susceptibility to sexual attacks, following a few recent sexual assaults allegedly carried out by 'foreign-looking men'.

Although I am generally pro-immigration, particularly with respect of refugees (although I don't want to get into a political argument here), I have noticed a disturbing tendency in some parts of Europe to effectively excuse sexual offences, apparently out of sympathy with the perpetrators.  I wonder if this was the same mind-set that allowed the 'Volunteer Bimbo' to let Oswald off-the-hook for his gropey behaviour.  She may have been a Republican volunteer, but like a lot of Gotham may also have feel sorry for the orphaned and deformed bird-man on account of his tragic history (hence one of the reasons he was described as 'the coolest role-model a young person could have'), and thus exonerated him on that account.

I can also buy that The Penguin was everyone's 'role-model', because Max, along with the media, had cajoled the public into feeling sorry for this crude freak, and to believe he has heroically 'saved' the mayor's baby.  But it probably went against their innate instincts to think anything remotely positive about the 'penguin-man living underneath Gotham's sewers'.

[Andrew]

One thing I love about Batman Returns, that's pretty unusual, is that it's pretty independent in its cynical commentary. The Penguin is obviously a bad guy causing the problems he complains about but the establishment/incumbent Mayor, while not evil, really is very ineffectual, you would hope that there could and should be someone better. So the public is made to look foolish for supporting the Penguin but it's also very understandable given the alternative. I'm not even sure if that was intended but it's very interesting for a movie to argue that the insider and the outsider are both bad.

[The Laughing Fish]

One thing I love about Batman Returns, that's pretty unusual, is that it's pretty independent in its cynical commentary. The Penguin is obviously a bad guy causing the problems he complains about but the establishment/incumbent Mayor, while not evil, really is very ineffectual, you would hope that there could and should be someone better. So the public is made to look foolish for supporting the Penguin but it's also very understandable given the alternative. I'm not even sure if that was intended but it's very interesting for a movie to argue that the insider and the outsider are both bad.

Maybe Batman Returns comments on how insidious political narratives are.

As I said before. the public got deceived by a fabricated "feel good" story as set up by the Penguin, who pretends to be a freak from the sewers with a kind heart. In turn, Max Schreck convinces him to go along with the positive public perception by starting a mayoral campaign and continue pretending with this populist agenda, for the purpose of self-interest and eliminating anybody who threatens their credibility i.e. Batman.

This does resonate a lot with what goes on in real life; after all, how many times have we heard of stories where politicians have risen to power with supposed virtuous goals, but are then later exposed as either despot or deviants? I'd wonder what would Gotham City have looked like if Penguin had succeeded? 

[The Dark Knight]

I'd wonder what would Gotham City have looked like if Penguin had succeeded? 

Here's some educated guesses from me:

The Red Triangle Circus Gang would've stopped their public criminal behavior.
Contracts would've been given to Max's companies in rigged tendering processes.
Max's power plant would've gone ahead.
Penguin would do something to promote global cooling, possibly teaming up with the Burtonverse's Victor Fries.
Penguin may have helped out orphanages to boost his profile, abandoning his murder plot given he's in a happier place.
A complete rehabilitation of the Gotham Zoo location, with a priority of looking after the City's penguin population.
Political enemies would mysteriously go missing if they began looking into Penguin or Max's operations.
His wardrobe would've become more consistent to his comic book counterpart.
Possibly trying to publicly legitimize the Circus Gang in some fashion, admin roles, etc.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

[Wayne49]

I think Burton was making a great point that the public enjoys falling for an image often spoken to them rather than what their eyes tell them. It's an interesting contrast to other aspects of life. I once heard Paul Stanley say people listen to music with their eyes. I think there's an enormous amount of truth to that insight (especially with his band). In politics its just the opposite. It also makes me wonder if Burton was using the Penguin's duck-mo-bile as a metaphor to underscore the old saying, "If it walks like a duck, it must be a duck."  There's a ton of subtext in that plot-point that went right over people's heads. Some of it rises to the surface and is easily seen. Other parts are a bit more subdued in their application, but they are all there.

[Catwoman]

I'd wonder what would Gotham City have looked like if Penguin had succeeded? 

Here's some educated guesses from me:

The Red Triangle Circus Gang would've stopped their public criminal behavior.
Contracts would've been given to Max's companies in rigged tendering processes.
Max's power plant would've gone ahead.
Penguin would do something to promote global cooling, possibly teaming up with the Burtonverse's Victor Fries.
Penguin may have helped out orphanages to boost his profile, abandoning his murder plot given he's in a happier place.
A complete rehabilitation of the Gotham Zoo location, with a priority of looking after the City's penguin population.
Political enemies would mysteriously go missing if they began looking into Penguin or Max's operations.
His wardrobe would've become more consistent to his comic book counterpart.
Possibly trying to publicly legitimize the Circus Gang in some fashion, admin roles, etc.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

My educated guess:

His first day in office, he signs off on Max's power plant. Max offers him a celebratory drink. Penguin drinks it, feels fine for a few hours, then suddenly falls dead flat on his face. His sewer raising and his unusual physiology are blamed; despite the cold surfacing and "campaign stress" had taxed an already weak heart. A city mourns. Meanwhile, Max stares from his brand new office window at the Gotham skyline with a triumphant smirk. Now no one stands in his way and he's no longer at risk of Penguin's blackmail. As he's on his way out he starts to flip the light off, figures "what the hell," and leaves it on, chuckling to himself. As he steps onto the deserted street, from the rafter above a whip cracks, wrapping around his neck. SNAP. The light of Gotham shines no more.

[The Laughing Fish]

My educated guess:

His first day in office, he signs off on Max's power plant. Max offers him a celebratory drink. Penguin drinks it, feels fine for a few hours, then suddenly falls dead flat on his face. His sewer raising and his unusual physiology are blamed; despite the cold surfacing and "campaign stress" had taxed an already weak heart. A city mourns. Meanwhile, Max stares from his brand new office window at the Gotham skyline with a triumphant smirk. Now no one stands in his way and he's no longer at risk of Penguin's blackmail. As he's on his way out he starts to flip the light off, figures "what the hell," and leaves it on, chuckling to himself. As he steps onto the deserted street, from the rafter above a whip cracks, wrapping around his neck. SNAP. The light of Gotham shines no more.

Very creative piece of an alternative ending there. I like it! 

If Penguin had killed Batman, Gotham City would've been left to rot. I don't think Catwoman would have the drive nor the interest to succeed him as Gotham City's protector. She even more cynical than Batman was.