Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi

Started by Catwoman, Sat, 21 May 2016, 21:55

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Nice tribute to Carrie/Leia.



"Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humour was provided to console him for what he is."

Fri, 14 Apr 2017, 20:00 #21 Last Edit: Fri, 14 Apr 2017, 20:05 by Silver Nemesis
First teaser trailer!!!


EDIT: And here's the poster:




The line Luke says. "I only know one truth... It's time for the Jedi... to end." is intriguing.

I've theorized over in the Force Awakens thread that Luke may very well be literally the last of the Jedi Order, with Rey being trained and becoming what is essentially the 1st of something new. Luke may have seen notable flaws within the Jedi Order's history with battles with the Sith during his time away, and thus his mission will be to focus on training Rey to help him take down Snoke and Kylo and finally be done with it.



"Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humour was provided to console him for what he is."






I'm going to do the unthinkable and speak in Hayden Christensen's defence. First of all, can I just say I hated this guy when Attack of the Clones came out. Every girl I knew, including my own girlfriend at the time, had a crush on him. And I thought he was far too wimpy to play Vader. Not to mention the fact his performance was awful.

But I've seen Hayden in other things where his acting was much better. Back when he did the prequels, he was a young and inexperienced performer whose background was mostly in television, theatre and small indie movies. Suddenly he's thrust into a massive blockbuster film with a director who – let's be honest – is terrible at directing actors. He's handed some of the cringiest dialogue ever written, dumped in the middle of a vast green void and told to emote. He's not given anything real to react to and the only direction Lucas offers is "faster and more intense".


Is it any wonder his performance sucked? I'm probably in the minority, but I thought his acting was acceptable in Revenge of the Sith. He still had some awkward lines of dialogue, but there was a massive improvement there over Attack of the Clones. And I'd like to see Hayden given a chance to revisit the character with a better director and script. I'd love to see some well written scenes between Luke and Anakin's Force ghost. Just the two of them talking, with no action or overbearing effects to distract from the drama. Seeing Anakin confide in his son about his many regrets would make for a powerful scene, and it would give Hayden a chance to redeem himself in the eyes of the fans and show them what he's really capable of.

The Last Jedi is by far my most hyped film of 2017. However, after watching this teaser a few more times, I have to say I'm not that impressed by it. I think it's a little too similar to The Force Awakens teaser. It starts with a sudden jump moment (Finn's head popping into view on Jakku/Rey's hand landing on the rock). Then we get a soft medley of iconic character themes accompanied by a cryptic voiceover from Luke. We get a shot of a familiar character with their face obscured from view. We get some shots of lightsabers, but no combat. We get a fan service money shot of the Falcon in action. We get a shot of Captain Phasma walking towards the camera. We even get a shot of what appears to be the same scene from the Episode VII teaser:


The only really intriguing element in this teaser is Luke's line about the Jedi ending. Other than that, it looks like they're using nostalgia and familiarity to market Episode VIII like they did with The Force Awakens. I think Lucasfilm has overplayed that hand. Fans are craving something new, not a remake of The Empire Strikes Back. Speaking of which, is anyone else a bit concerned by this shot?


Low-altitude speeders skimming across the white surface of salt flats towards what appear to be walkers. It looks worrying similar to the Battle of Hoth. It might not be. We don't yet know what the context is behind this scene. But if it turns out those are Resistance speeders racing to battle First Order walkers, I'll be very disappointed.

Like I say, this is my most hyped film of the year. And I'll definitely be there to see it opening weekend. I just don't think this teaser was that great. I'm glad it didn't give away any spoilers and I'm sure there are lots of exciting new characters and planets they haven't shown us yet. But for a first trailer, it's underwhelming. I'd rank it below the Episode VII and Rogue One teasers.

Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 14 Apr  2017, 21:18
The line Luke says. "I only know one truth... It's time for the Jedi... to end." is intriguing.

I've theorized over in the Force Awakens thread that Luke may very well be literally the last of the Jedi Order, with Rey being trained and becoming what is essentially the 1st of something new. Luke may have seen notable flaws within the Jedi Order's history with battles with the Sith during his time away, and thus his mission will be to focus on training Rey to help him take down Snoke and Kylo and finally be done with it.
Here's the theory from me, TDOAK (The Darkest Of All Knights).

I think Luke found out a dark secret about the Jedi which shook him to his core - that they strayed from their original path. I'm taking a leap of faith and guessing the book we see in the trailer is the Journal of the Whills, located at the first Jedi temple. This revelation also could have led to Ben Solo turning to the dark side, given he was also disillusioned and also susceptible to Snoke's manipulations. And as we know, Ben went on to massacre Luke's students, which adds to Luke's torment.

I think the Jedi will eventually be reformed by Luke, but only after he's inspired again by Rey.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 14 Apr  2017, 22:54I'm going to do the unthinkable and speak in Hayden Christensen's defence. First of all, can I just say I hated this guy when Attack of the Clones came out. Every girl I knew, including my own girlfriend at the time, had a crush on him. And I thought he was far too wimpy to play Vader. Not to mention the fact his performance was awful.
I'd like to think I understand the rationale behind his portrayal in AOTC. Lucas wanted to bridge the gap between the character's portrayal in TPM (a basically sweet and wholesome kid) and Star Wars '77 (where he chokes people who piss him off). He also wanted to explore the character's vulnerabilities and show the audience that his thought process is pretty relatable, really, and most of what he does comes from his own frailties rather than his own inherent darkness.

In actual execution though... well, it's up for grabs how well done those issues all are.

Still, I can speak to a fringe benefit of casting Christensen as Anakin. Jake Lloyd was a typical American kid from the midwest and his accent was that of a typical American kid from the midwest. Christensen's accent is not midwest. He pronounces some of his R's in a fairly clipped manner. "I programmed Arrrr-2 to wawn us if thewe is an intrudah." The result is a bit of a linguistic filling-of-the-gap between Jake Lloyd's accent and James Earl Jones's accent.

It gives the impression that Anakin moved into the Jedi Temple and gradually began absorbing the accents that a lot of people seem to use on Coruscant. So he still has a few of Lloyd's R-pronunciations and a few Obi-Wan's R-pronunciations. I kind of like that.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 14 Apr  2017, 22:54But I've seen Hayden in other things where his acting was much better. Back when he did the prequels, he was a young and inexperienced performer whose background was mostly in television, theatre and small indie movies. Suddenly he's thrust into a massive blockbuster film with a director who – let's be honest – is terrible at directing actors. He's handed some of the cringiest dialogue ever written, dumped in the middle of a vast green void and told to emote. He's not given anything real to react to and the only direction Lucas offers is "faster and more intense".
Other actors in the prequels seemed to handle their assignments pretty well. Ewan McGregor, Ian McDiarmid and Samuel L. Jackson, for example.

It seems that the more devoted a given actor is to Method-style acting, the more he seems to struggle with Star Wars performances. Not always, obviously, but in a lot of cases. Meanwhile, actors from a more classical background don't seem to find Star Wars any more challenging than anything else they've ever done. Again, exceptions do exist but it's true in a lot of cases.

Christensen's style has always seemed very Methody to me. I'm no expert on him but that's the impression I've gotten. If my little theory about Method acting holds true, it stands to reason that he would struggle with Star Wars because he has nothing in his personal life to draw upon to immerse himself in that kind of world.

Then again, I could be pulling all this out of my... hat.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 18 Apr  2017, 19:54Still, I can speak to a fringe benefit of casting Christensen as Anakin. Jake Lloyd was a typical American kid from the midwest and his accent was that of a typical American kid from the midwest. Christensen's accent is not midwest. He pronounces some of his R's in a fairly clipped manner. "I programmed Arrrr-2 to wawn us if thewe is an intrudah." The result is a bit of a linguistic filling-of-the-gap between Jake Lloyd's accent and James Earl Jones's accent.

I assumed he was trying to affect a transatlantic accent as a way of foreshadowing Sebastian Shaw's English accent in Return of the Jedi. Regardless, his deeper more measured manner of speaking in ROTS was a nice setup for James Earl Jones' Vader voice.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 18 Apr  2017, 19:54It gives the impression that Anakin moved into the Jedi Temple and gradually began absorbing the accents that a lot of people seem to use on Coruscant. So he still has a few of Lloyd's R-pronunciations and a few Obi-Wan's R-pronunciations. I kind of like that.

That's a good in-universe explanation. The English accent is meant to be the Core Worlds accent, which in turn is supposed to be emblematic of the wealthier elite class of Star Wars characters. Hence why Palpatine, Tarkin and most of the Imperial officers sound British. It would make sense for Anakin to pick up such an accent after spending years on Coruscant.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 18 Apr  2017, 19:54Other actors in the prequels seemed to handle their assignments pretty well. Ewan McGregor, Ian McDiarmid and Samuel L. Jackson, for example.

Hmm. The only two actors that I'd say were good in the PT – and by 'good' I mean they managed to make their character's actions and dialogue seem natural while investing some emotional honesty into their role – were Pernilla August and Ian McDiarmid. Liam Neeson, Terrence Stamp, Christopher Lee and Jimmy Smits did ok with what they had to work with. Samuel L. Jackson was acceptable, though I felt he was playing the exact same role he's played in most of his other films. Practically everyone else ranged from poor to terrible. Even Natalie Portman, who is ordinarily dependable, was emotionless and wooden in the majority of her scenes ("I ask you to help us. No, I beg you to help us," being one of the worst line deliveries in the entire saga).

I've heard a lot of people praise McGregor's performance, but I've always thought he was one of the actors most visibly struggling with the material. I love the character of Obi-Wan, but McGregor seemed more preoccupied with impersonating Alec Guinness than breathing life into his own interpretation of the character. He was particularly awkward whenever he had to interact with a digital character. He had this habit of overselling the effect by staring too intently at the empty space where the other person was meant to be. He wasn't terrible in the role by any means, but I definitely think he struggled under Lucas' direction.

I read somewhere that Lucas solicited the help of an acting coach on the set of Revenge of the Sith. He knew he couldn't direct the actors effectively on his own, so he got someone else to do it for him. I think there is a noticeable improvement in the overall standard of acting in Revenge of the Sith, Hayden included. But maybe that's just my bias talking because I like that movie more than the other two.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 18 Apr  2017, 19:54Christensen's style has always seemed very Methody to me. I'm no expert on him but that's the impression I've gotten. If my little theory about Method acting holds true, it stands to reason that he would struggle with Star Wars because he has nothing in his personal life to draw upon to immerse himself in that kind of world.

You're probably right. I'm no expert on acting, but as I understand it the basic concept behind the Method approach is to place oneself in the same emotional state as the character and then react in a way that is spontaneous and organic, as opposed to the classical approach of mimicking the external symptoms of an emotion using carefully premeditated gestures. But how can anyone produce an authentic emotional reaction without authentic stimuli to fuel it? When you're standing in front of a green screen, conversing with a digital character who isn't really present, then it must be practically impossible to make proper use of the Method. It's times like that you need a director who's good with actors. Someone who can give context to their emotional state. For all his talents, Lucas simply isn't an actor's director. And it shows in the PT.