Who Created The Joker?

Started by Joker81, Tue, 17 Jun 2008, 18:55

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I watched on youtube 'the two masks of batman' an interview with Bob Kane from 1989, and he practicaly says he invented the Joker. He tries to say also that his alter ego as well as Batman was the Joker. He says he was always playing practical jokes when he was a kid, and he liked playing cards and the Joker always stuck in his mind.

Yet I was under the impression that it was Bill finger that created the Joker when Kane asked him to come up with a new and exciting villian. And the Joker was based on 'the man who laughs'.

What do you guys think?
Do you think Bob was trying to steal Fingers creation?
Or was it a collaborative thing? If it was collaborative, Kanes and Fingers sequence of events are totally conflicting, which means one guy is trying to take more credit than the other.
So who did create the greatest villian in comicbook history?

Tue, 17 Jun 2008, 19:25 #1 Last Edit: Tue, 17 Jun 2008, 19:28 by raleagh
Not sure about the Joker, but most of what we know and love about Batman is down to Finger

This is from Cinefantastique Feb 1994:

The creation of Batman was actually a collaboration between artist Bob Kane and writer Bill Finger. Finger wrote Batman?s first two adventures in Detective Comics and helped refine Kane?s initial concept, adding a cowl, bat-ears, nose-piece, gauntlets and omitting Batman?s eyes for a more mysterious look. Finger named Batman?s alter ego (Bruce Wayne), and placed him in Gotham City. Finger also wrote milestone stories such as ?The Origin of the Batman? (Batman #47, June-July 1948) and ?The 1000 Secrets of the Batcave!? (Batman #48, August-September 1948). Much of the direction of the 1960?s BATMAN TV series was essentially the unacknowledged work of Finger.

William Finger was born February 8, 1914. As a child Finger loved movies and pulp fiction, including The Shadow and Doc Savage, all of which influenced his plots and writing style for comic books.

Finger met cartoonist Bob Kane at a party in 1938. They subsequently collaborated on several adventure strips. Rusty and his Pals, which began in Adventure Comics #32 (November 1938), was the first. Within a year, Finger and Kane had co-created Batman. Finger wrote Batman?s first two adventures in Detective Comics #27 (May 1938) and #28 and shortly thereafter became the regular scribe for Batman.

Although chronically and notoriously tardy with submissions, Finger simultaneously was a gifted and prodigious author, turning out thousands of pages of work in his lifetime. Throughout his association with DC, he worked on numerous characters, including Batman, Green Lantern, Wildcat, Vigilante, Johnny Quick, Superman, Superboy, Blackhawk, Tomahawk, Challengers of the Unknown, Lois Lane and Robin (solo stories which appeared in Star Spangled Comics) as well as in World?s Finest Comics (Batman and Superman team-ups). From 1943 to 1946, Finger wrote a number of the daily and Sunday Batman and Robin newspaper strip continuities. At Timely Comics, he worked on Captain America Comics and All Winners Comics. He wrote the first Lana Lang story, ?The Girl in Superboy?s Life!? which appeared in Superboy #10 (September-October 1950). 1-lis last Batman story, written in early April 1965, was ?Two Batmen Too Many!? in Batman #177 (December 1965).

Known for his organized, methodical comic book plots as well as oversized props, Finger maintained a detailed ?gimmick me? on numerous topics. Over the years, he clipped and saved articles and photos on a wide variety of subjects, using the file not only as a springboard for new stories but also to provide artists with references. By the time of his death, Finger had accumulated a wealth of information; ?enough to fill a standard file cabinet:? according to his son, Fred.

Finger wrote for 77 SUNSET STRIP, THE ROARING TWENTIES and HAWAIIAN EYE TV during the late ?50s and early ?60s. He worked on two episodes of the BATMAN TV series (#45: ?The Clock King?s Crazy Crimes,? and #46: ?The King Gets Crowned?) which aired in 1966. Dining the late ?60s, Finger worked at a studio on Long Island making institutional training films for the Army. He wrote the script for THE GREEN SUMP, a 1969 movie co-production between Toho and MGM and he is likely to have written several animated Superman cartoons during late ?60s.

Finger is fondly recalled by his contemporaries. ?Bill Finger was a genius,? observed artist Dick Sprang. ?The best writer in the comics. I?d get one of his scripts and what fun! He?d always send a bunch of clippings. Some page he ripped out of Life. He never got his work in on time. I don?t know how many Bill Finger stories I did where I?d [only] get three pages. [Fellow artist] Jack [Schiff] said, ?I don?t know what?s coming, but you better protect yourself.? I then had to make what the movies call protection shots. I had to trace the characters or some setting before I sent in my page because I knew I had to pick this up somewhere in the continuation of this story.?

Recalled artist Charles Paris, ?One Summer night, somewhere in the l9SOs. I remember sitting down in Washington Square talking to Bill, I asked what he was doing, and he [said he] was writing TV commercials. I asked, ?How is it that you write TV commercials?? He said, ?Because I?m used to thinking in terms of pictures. A writer?s writer is no good for writing TV scripts. He thinks in writer?s terms. A comic boo writer thinks in visual terms. Or should.?

Finger suffered several heart attacks during his life. ?He was a golf nut,? recalled Schwartz. ?But he went around for hours with that pain in his arm and finally wafted into St. Vincent?s hospital and discovered he was having a heart attack. This was in the early 1950s, I guess.?

Bill Finger died in Manhattan on January 24, 1974, two weeks shy of his 60th

QuoteBut he went around for hours with that pain in his arm and finally wafted into St. Vincent?s hospital and discovered he was having a heart attack. This was in the early 1950s, I guess.
Now that, my friends, is one tough SOB.

Kane created Batman. Not many people will give him his credit anymore. Granted, Finger made him the character we know today. But people forget that Bob created and submitted the character before Finger was hired on.

Jerry Robinson claims he created the Joker, but most don't pay him any mind.

I think it's easily that both created the Joker. Bob probably remembered "The Man Who Laughs" and said "he's make a great villain" and pitched it to Bill, who then wrote all the stuff for him and helped Bob design the character. People tend to forget that since Bob hired him on after submission of the Batman stuff to DC, Bill really actually worked for Bob. It wasn't a case of 50/50. And yes, Bill did come up with most of the ideas, but Bob had recognized Bill's share of credit in his autobiography.
"There's just as much room for the television series and the comic books as there is for my movie. Why wouldn't there be?" - Tim Burton

I own the dc archives edition called "The Dark Knight Archives Vol.1" it has a list in the first page which says "Joker Created By Bill Finger"
Fear Me, Im Back

I know batman forever, thats why I was confused myself, because I have that book.

And I then seen that doc and Kane indicates he invented him.

Have You Got The Preview Edition
ive got that, i got in england for ?12, i then went on ebay uk and it was SO much for the preview (one ?50) i almost fainted ;p;
Fear Me, Im Back

I thought Batman created the Joker.

Heard he dropped him into a vat of chemicals.

Wasnt easy for him to get over either, but he tried. ;) ;D