More defense of Schumacher's films (video)

[The Laughing Fish]

Here is a slideshow from Cinema Blend talking about the good things about BF & BR.

Source: http://www.cinemablend.com/news/1561229/why-batman-forever-and-batman--robin-are-much-better-than-you-remember

The only standout point for me was a nod for Michael Gough's Alfred.

Despite the fact that Michael Caine made a serious impression as Alfred Pennyworth in Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy, and Jeremy Irons has shown early promise with his limited exposure in the DCEU, there's still a large segment of the audience that will always consider Michael Gough to be the quintessential Alfred. As a holdover from the Keaton era, Gough brought his characteristic gravitas to the iconic butler, and an almost Yoda-like wisdom that helped ground the Schumacher Batman movies. As these films aimed for a much lighter tone that the Burton films, Alfred always scored solid laughs, and his sage like presence helped guide the new members of the Bat Family that signed on during the events of Batman Forever as well as Batman & Robin.

[Wayne49]

I think Michael Gough certainly lent a tremendous foundation to the storied franchise. Even in Batman & Robin, his scene with Clooney on his (near) death bed was very touching. Still is to this day. When I watch that moment, it really shows me what a lost opportunity Schumacher had to make Clooney something more in the role. Had Schumacher's treatment catered to a slightly more serious tone, Clooney might have pulled in a tremendous performance. As it was I never felt like Clooney really had much guidance from scene to scene. You could tell he felt out of place in the part of Batman, but seem to find his footing as Bruce Wayne. Gough played off his energy really well. They had good chemistry.

[riddler]

I think Michael Gough certainly lent a tremendous foundation to the storied franchise. Even in Batman & Robin, his scene with Clooney on his (near) death bed was very touching. Still is to this day. When I watch that moment, it really shows me what a lost opportunity Schumacher had to make Clooney something more in the role. Had Schumacher's treatment catered to a slightly more serious tone, Clooney might have pulled in a tremendous performance. As it was I never felt like Clooney really had much guidance from scene to scene. You could tell he felt out of place in the part of Batman, but seem to find his footing as Bruce Wayne. Gough played off his energy really well. They had good chemistry.

In Clooneys defense it must have been hard to act as Batman with jokes coming from every corner. For the most part the Bruce Wayne scenes were more straight forward with only one joke (about pointing the telescope at his bedroom). I've stated several times that Clooney was just as good a Bruce Wayne as any other live action actor to play him. He didn't ham up or mail in any of those scenes within the cowl. And yes Alfred's storyline was likely the best part of the movie, we all know Bruce asks a lot of Alfred in just about every interpretation of Batman, I especially liked his response when asked if he gave up his life to serve Bruce "looking after heroes? My only regret is that I wasn't out there fighting with you"

[Wayne49]

In Clooneys defense it must have been hard to act as Batman with jokes coming from every corner. For the most part the Bruce Wayne scenes were more straight forward with only one joke (about pointing the telescope at his bedroom). I've stated several times that Clooney was just as good a Bruce Wayne as any other live action actor to play him. He didn't ham up or mail in any of those scenes within the cowl. And yes Alfred's storyline was likely the best part of the movie, we all know Bruce asks a lot of Alfred in just about every interpretation of Batman, I especially liked his response when asked if he gave up his life to serve Bruce "looking after heroes? My only regret is that I wasn't out there fighting with you"

Well said. Yeah, I don't think this film's hammy reputation came from the style of acting on Clooney's part so much as some of the lines he had to deliver in the cowl. I guess if we're being completely honest, every time we see Clooney he's playing the straight man throughout. But unlike Adam West who did it purposely against heavy innuendo, here Clooney is probably a bit more lost for motivation since there is no clear direction so much as moment to moment action he reacts to. But I will also add, probably the biggest complaint on Clooney above all else, is just the simple fact that he has no public identity for Batman at all. His voice is identical. His mannerisms are identical. Quite frankly you would have to be deaf, not to know Bruce Wayne was under the mask. And I think that was too far a leap from the other incarnations to just abandon a deep or gravely voice to disguise who he was. With all the customizing people make to movies, I think it would be interesting if someone modified Clooney's voice to see how different scenes would register. It might be quite surprising. If he had a voice like Kevin Conroy maybe he would have got away with it.

[The Laughing Fish]

But I will also add, probably the biggest complaint on Clooney above all else, is just the simple fact that he has no public identity for Batman at all. His voice is identical. His mannerisms are identical. Quite frankly you would have to be deaf, not to know Bruce Wayne was under the mask. And I think that was too far a leap from the other incarnations to just abandon a deep or gravely voice to disguise who he was. With all the customizing people make to movies, I think it would be interesting if someone modified Clooney's voice to see how different scenes would register. It might be quite surprising. If he had a voice like Kevin Conroy maybe he would have got away with it.

It's definitely bizarre how after three films, the producers suddenly decided to stop Batman speaking in a deep voice. I guess it reflected the attitude that they were making a "toy commercial" when making B&R.

But just for the hell of it, maybe you could theorise the lack of Batman's voice changing in costume reflected how much peaceful his state of mind became. Compare that to the Burton films and BF, the voice reflected how angry and troubled he was. But by the time we get to B&R, he had vanquished his demons and became more of a focused, experienced investigator rather than an angry creature of the night. As a matter of fact, we could already see this change after he destroyed the Riddler's mind-warp device and as he confronted Two-Face one last time.

Of course, you could dismiss what I just said as utter pretentious drivel and there was absolutely no profound reason to abandon the voice.

[The Dark Knight]

I like what they did with Affleck's voice. It's disguised and doesn't sound ridiculous. There's a nice balance of aggression and a ghostly whisper. I actually appreciate what Bale had in mind for his voice. It's a big attempt at getting into character and changing his persona. His Begins voice was rather good. But indeed, it became a parody in the sequels. Something you can't accuse Affeck's voice of being. We all love Keaton, but Kilmer also did a really good job with the Bat voice.

[The Laughing Fish]

I actually appreciate what Bale had in mind for his voice. It's a big attempt at getting into character and changing his persona. His Begins voice was rather good.

I don't think his voice in the first film was that much different or better than the sequels. As soon as he talks to Rachel for the first time, I thought "what the hell is wrong with his voice?". And the scene where he screams at Flass... ...God, that was so sh*t.

Believe it or not, Bale's voice actually sounded much better in the auditions when he wore Val Kilmer's sonar suit. It's a shame they didn't stick with that.

[Azrael]

No. The voice in Begins was fairly restrained compared to TDK\TDKRises and the rain scene with Flass was seen as quite powerful in 2005. It's a bit silly only now, in hindsight, well after the growl was overdone in The Dark Knight and became a meme.

[The Dark Knight]

No. The voice in Begins was fairly restrained compared to TDK\TDKRises and the rain scene with Flass was seen as quite powerful in 2005. It's a bit silly only now, in hindsight, well after the growl was overdone in The Dark Knight and became a meme.

Yeah, the Begins voice wasn't that bad. Same goes for the Begins batsuit.

[The Laughing Fish]

No. The voice in Begins was fairly restrained compared to TDK\TDKRises and the rain scene with Flass was seen as quite powerful in 2005. It's a bit silly only now, in hindsight, well after the growl was overdone in The Dark Knight and became a meme.

I completely disagree. I don't see how him screaming "SWEAR TO ME" sounded any better than shouting "WHERE'S THE TRIGGER?.' Both moments were ridiculous, but what makes the Flass scene a little worse is Bale's overexaggerated facial expressions and hissing. It made the scene unintentionally awkward.

The voice in the sequels might have sounded a little deeper, but it was always the same overdone, goofy cookie monster voice. The claim that he sounded better in BB never made any sense to me.