The Ending (SPOILERS)

[BatmAngelus]

I think he was just fed up playing Bruce Wayne. Bruce and Batman were complimentary performances. Without one, the other became pointless. The MacGuffin Selina pursued throughout the film was the chance for a clean slate and a fresh start. I think this must have been what Bruce wanted too.

It was inconsiderate of him to let Alfred think he'd died. But maybe he was mad at the old butler for walking out on him or for burning Rachel's letter. Either way, he made up for it in the end by tracking down the cafe Alfred frequented and acknowledging the dream he'd confided in him about earlier in the film. Bruce made that dream a reality, giving Alfred what he wanted most and finally freeing them both from the shadow that had hung over the Wayne family since Thomas and Martha were murdered. He stopped being Bruce Wayne and became a new man. And he finally had a chance for a happy normal life.

Did he really need to fake his own death to get that fresh start? I'm not sure. I need to see the film again. But based on a first viewing, I'm inclined to think it was justified.

Though I doubt the Bruce in the comics would have done the same thing.

If the movie was about Bruce letting go of his pain or getting rid of his Bruce Wayne persona, then I wish the story focused and indicated that.  But other than the beginning scenes with Alfred and Catwoman's offer to escape, I saw very little in the screenplay that indicated a desire to let go of anything, a need for a fresh start, or a frustration with his double life for the faked death twist to feel justified to me.

[Silver Nemesis]

I think pain and rebirth were certainly themes in the film. But perhaps they weren't featured as prominently as they should have been.

We see how unfulfilled Bruce Wayne is at the beginning of the movie. And from there things just get worse – he goes broke, Alfred leaves him, his reputation is destroyed, he loses control of his business, his armoury is raided, and his secret identity is compromised by Bane and every other lowlife that was present when he had his back broken. There really wasn't much of a life left for him to reclaim. And the prison seems to have been Nolan's version of a Lazarus Pit; a place where broken souls are consigned to suffer until they're able to re-emerge, stronger than they were before. Pain and rebirth.

If I had to highlight one central flaw in the film it would be that it tries to do too much, and ultimately comes across as overblown. There are too many characters, too many subplots, too many plot twists. And there are too many themes. And when the thematic framework underscoring a movie becomes too bloated and muddled, it makes the overall composition very difficult to understand. We can't tell which themes relate to which characters, which are important and which subsidiary.

So when I say pain and rebirth are important themes, that could well just be me misinterpreting the film. Again, I'd like to reserve judgement until I've seen it again. What I will say is that I found character motivation in general to be a very murky area in this movie. We've already talked about the ambiguity surrounding Bane and Talia's motivations, and I thought Selina's were a little vague as well. But a part of me likes that. I always appreciated the ambiguity in Burton's films and the fact they invited interpretation instead of imposing it. Nolan's first two Batman films were so precise in what they meant to say that they left little room for ambiguity. I like the fact that TDKR allows the viewer a little more scope for subjective interpretation.

[BatmAngelus]

Realized I never responded to this, haha, so here I am now:

I think you're right in saying that pain and rebirth were themes in the film.  My problem is that those themes don't organically lead to the ending to me.  In the film, he heals, gets out of the pit, and comes back to Gotham and defeats Bane and the League of Shadows.  Alright, he overcomes his pain and is born again, rejuvenated and ready to fight Bane.

So why does he have to fake both Batman's death and Bruce Wayne's death, instead of trying to reclaim his life?  I saw no desire on his part to stop being Batman after defeating Bane and Talia.  Nor did I see any desire to give up his life as Bruce Wayne.  So why did he have to stop being both?

After taking care of the nuke, Bruce Wayne could've gotten his money and his reputation back by proving Bane targeted him, with Miranda Tate on the inside.  After all, it seems awfully coincidental for Bane to attack the Stock Exchange one day and Bruce Wayne to lose everything from said Stock Exchange the next day.  Commissioner Gordon, now knowing his secret identity, could've helped out.  After this, he could've taken back control of his business, with Lucius Fox's help and gotten his armory back.  His secret identity also wouldn't have been too compromised.  The League of Shadows knew his identity back in Batman Begins and that didn't lead to much trouble for him after he defeated them, either.

I realize this is all fan conjecture, but I'm just wondering, in a film about overcoming pain and adversity, wouldn't it have made more sense for Bruce to stay in Gotham and bounce back from Bane's attack by getting his life back together and using his resources to help clean up the city, instead of abandoning his life in Gotham completely and making everyone think he was dead?

[Batman88]

Saw the movie last night for the first time and loved it. The only thing I still am trying to digest is the ending, more precisely Bruce giving up his Batman persona and passing the mantle on to Blake. I always have thought and liked the fact that the Batman's war against crime was an on-going one and having him quit being Batman doesn't sit particularly well with me. You may say I'm naive but that's the way I see it.

I am trying to find ways for it to make sense to me, like Blake will become Robin and Bruce will one day come back and fight crime alongside Blake but the fact that a statue of the Dark Knight was made and unveiled leaves little hope for that.

P.S.: I'm sorry I haven't been around in a long time but a lot of personal health-related issues have prevented me from being around here more than I would have loved.

[riddler]

Saw the movie last night for the first time and loved it. The only thing I still am trying to digest is the ending, more precisely Bruce giving up his Batman persona and passing the mantle on to Blake. I always have thought and liked the fact that the Batman's war against crime was an on-going one and having him quit being Batman doesn't sit particularly well with me. You may say I'm naive but that's the way I see it.

I am trying to find ways for it to make sense to me, like Blake will become Robin and Bruce will one day come back and fight crime alongside Blake but the fact that a statue of the Dark Knight was made and unveiled leaves little hope for that.

P.S.: I'm sorry I haven't been around in a long time but a lot of personal health-related issues have prevented me from being around here more than I would have loved.

Even if gordon didn't spill the beans, there is no possible way Bruce wayne could return to gotham and take over as batman without Gotham knowing his identity;
Wayne returns to gotham (clearly announcing his presence during begins and Batman shows up)
Batman gets accused of murder and Wayne becomes a hermit and urban legend.
Wayne comes out of hiding and Batman returns
Wayne and Batman both die
the last 10% of the population who couldn't piece together the connection surely would if both rise from the grave.

[Silver Nemesis]

Saw the movie last night for the first time and loved it.

Finally! Somebody else around here liked it apart from me.

Good to have you back, Batman88. I hope you're feeling better now.

[ElCuervoMuerto]

^Well, while I have my problems with TDRK, I will say that I did like it. The last third of the film is super exhilarating, and I didn't even mind Robin Blake inheriting Batman's toys. Honestly, my main problems with the film could've been fixed with dialoge. Have a line about how Batman only quit being Batman after the streets where actually safe (like 3-6 years after TDK), and then add a line about how Bruce had some secret bank account they didn't get to (explaining how in the hell Bruce got back from Bane's prison), and the film improves substantially for me.

While I still love the Nolan films, and I don't think the man has ever made a bad film, I do feel like TDKR is the first time he's made a somewhat mediocre film, Batman or otherwise. I'll write a proper review to post in the other tread latter. 

[thecolorsblend]

Finally! Somebody else around here liked it apart from me.

Hey now, I liked it too. Whatever problems I have with the movie, sending Bruce off into the sunset cuts through a lot of BS with me. I've never envisioned Bruce dying on the job. I always thought he'd eventually reach a point where he decides to call it a day. TDKRises gives him different reasons than I would for doing so but it achieves that purpose and that counts for a lot in my book.

[Batman88]

Finally! Somebody else around here liked it apart from me.

Hey now, I liked it too. Whatever problems I have with the movie, sending Bruce off into the sunset cuts through a lot of BS with me. I've never envisioned Bruce dying on the job. I always thought he'd eventually reach a point where he decides to call it a day. TDKRises gives him different reasons than I would for doing so but it achieves that purpose and that counts for a lot in my book.

I like that, too. The fact that Bruce didn't die on the job but went off into the sunset. I do have issues with him quitting being the Batman, though. His is an on-going battle with crime and a great part of the appeal of the character is that he can't afford to lead a normal life because of that.

By the way, thanks for the concern, Silver Nemesis. I am fine, it's my brother that's very sick.

[thecolorsblend]

I like that, too. The fact that Bruce didn't die on the job but went off into the sunset. I do have issues with him quitting being the Batman, though. His is an on-going battle with crime and a great part of the appeal of the character is that he can't afford to lead a normal life because of that.

See, I think he would. I think he'd eventually experience what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity. He'd realize his parents would've wanted a better life for him, to be happy and fulfilled and he'd take stock of things and realize he's done more for Gotham City than anybody... and that it's time for the next generation to move in and take over. Somewhere in his mid/late 40's... yeah, I think he'd retire from Batman, retire from all public life, marry some chick (Selina's as good as anybody and better than most) and leave Gotham City forever as a happy and content man. Spider-Man would die on the job, Superman would outlive everybody but Batman... eventually he'd move on.