Characters That Could Be Cut

[BatmanFurst]

I was thinking of ways to make this film a bit tighter. My solution is removing three characters.
1. Talia
2. John Daggett
3. Foley
It really feels like those characters are only in there to complicate the plot. I don't think you'll lose much by cutting them out.

[thecolorsblend]

I disagree. I don't think any of those characters could be removed from the movie without causing significant damage to various story elements, character arcs, etc.

[BatmanFurst]

I disagree. I don't think any of those characters could be removed from the movie without causing significant damage to various story elements, character arcs, etc.

I think you could easily cut out Talia, and Foley and the film would be stronger for it. Daggett would be a little harder to cut only because he is used to explain why Bane is in Gotham, and how he's able to place explosives under the city. However, I think they could've easily rewritten the script to give an explanation for those plot points.

[thecolorsblend]

I disagree. I don't think any of those characters could be removed from the movie without causing significant damage to various story elements, character arcs, etc.

I think you could easily cut out Talia, and Foley and the film would be stronger for it. Daggett would be a little harder to cut only because he is used to explain why Bane is in Gotham, and how he's able to place explosives under the city. However, I think they could've easily rewritten the script to give an explanation for those plot points.

Talia provides a link to Batman Begins. That is crucial since this is a trilogy and it's conventional for the third chapter of any trilogy to somewhat revisit the first chapter. Talia is a major element of that for this particular trilogy. She's proof that while Batman heavily decimated the League of Shadows in BB, they were able to limp along, survive and ultimately reemerge to menace Gotham once more.

Foley represents the soul of Gotham City. He's proof that the work done by Batman, Gordon and Dent wasn't for naught. Gotham truly did become a better place thanks to their efforts. Like Gotham itself, Foley was fragile and lacked confidence when times became rough. But when the time came, when the chips were down, Foley did the right thing. Just like Gotham itself did. Foley is a microcosm of Gotham as we see it in TDKRises.

Dagget serves a few different functions in the narrative. Bane needs to come to Gotham in order for the story Nolan wants to tell to work. And Dagget is the catalyst which summons Bane to the city. Another function is Dagget's role in bankrupting Bruce. The story needs to strip Batman down to his bare essence. He can't have any of his usual allies and advantages to rely upon. Dagget ensures that Batman doesn't have the comfort and privilege of the Wayne fortune to fall back on. Dagget is also an adversary to Bruce who can be manipulated by Talia into doing her bidding without him even realizing it. His move against Bruce allows Talia to take control of the reactor.

I can understand not enjoying the movie. But I think you're overlooking quite a lot of value that those characters bring to the narrative.

[The Dark Knight]

I was thinking of ways to make this film a bit tighter. My solution is removing three characters.
1. Talia
2. John Daggett
3. Foley
It really feels like those characters are only in there to complicate the plot. I don't think you'll lose much by cutting them out.

I have to admit, TDK Rises has grown on me in recent years, and not like a poisonous fungus. Heath Ledger is always going to get the most praise, but I'm inclined to say Tom Hardy's Bane (while not Knightfall quality) is a better overall villain in comparison to Ledger's Joker in terms of threat level and memorability. Love or hate that mask and the accompanying voice, but it's hard to deny their recognition, whether being parodied or appreciated. I don't have a problem with Bane getting so much screen time either, and I didn't have a problem with it in B89 and BR with Nicholson or DeVito.

Little scenes like Bane snapping Daggett's neck, crashing the board meeting, ordering the core to be pulled from the bomb, his speech at the football game and so on are enjoyable for me because I can appreciate the nuances Hardy provided in creating this character. TDK Rises (and the Burton films) understand something the Marvel films, and so many other films, do not: in order to create a memorable and credible threat, ample screen time is needed to develop them. They actually need equal, or in some cases more, screen time than the hero.

I would say Nolan actually built up Bane's threat almost too well. Bashes and imprisons Batman, steals the Tumblers, bankrupts Bruce, steals a nuclear bomb, cuts off Gotham from the world, rounds up enemies and has them killed, attacks the rich and releases dangerous prisoners onto the streets. It's so severe that Batman's return to Gotham doesn't match that dark and depressing vibe – I was wanting something like the mutant leader rematch from TDK Returns. But anyway, Nolan can claim he didn't reduce Bane's threat level (holds his own in combat – no mask weakness and he wins, and has Batman in a noose with a shotgun at his head in his last moments).

I probably would have preferred some of the supporting characters to have reduced screen time (with more for Bruce and Selina), but like colors, I can see their benefits to the overall narrative.

Foley is rather interesting, I think. He was a good cop who bought in to the Dent myth, like almost everybody else. Gotham had experienced relative peace for a good number of years, making people feel complacent about the risk of serious crime. I can't begrudge Foley's decision to chase Batman and ignore Bane because that's where his mind was led. Bane was an anomaly that would soon disappear, and arresting Batman was the big picture, not the other way around.

So when Dent is revealed to be a murdering fraud, confidence is sure to be shaken. Believing something for so long changes the context of all you've been doing. Foley's decision to chase Batman (who was innocent) and ignore Bane was nurtured by Gordon's agreement to manufacture the Dent hoax. The only way to control people is to lie to them, and Foley thought of Gordon as a hero. He had to reconsider that, especially when times were at their toughest.

Foley stays inside his home, and some would say like a coward. I wouldn't. It wasn't his decision to send all the police into the sewers. That was Gordon. Batman is nowhere to be seen, and a militia patrolled the streets. Self-preservation is equivalent to winning in that scenario. It's only when Foley sees the burning bat logo does he decide to re-join the fight. Batman wasn't the enemy, as he had been led to believe. Fighting was about reclaiming truth as much as anything.

Gotham was going to blow, and the exits were guarded. This was the last stand, and dressing up in full police uniform signified his spirit, though tested, had not been broken. He would die as the best and most pure example of law enforcement. Despite being lied to, he did keep the streets safe during that period of peace. He did his job. And he would do it again, one last time.

Daggett wasn't that interesting to me, but he plays an important role as a go-between. A lot of Rises is about deceit. Daggett thought he was in control, but he wasn't. Talia could have been played by a better actress in my view, but she does offer a lot of material in terms of manipulating Bruce and helping Bane. Blake represents an anomaly in the sense he's a policeman who doubts the Dent hoax, and knows Bruce is Batman. His sloppiness (I guess he's a work in progress) is evened out by his correct judgements, which mean he's well ahead of the curve. Foley, for example, was fully brainwashed by the company line. When the truth is finally spilled, Blake is still disappointed but not shattered.

[thecolorsblend]

I rather enjoy Marion Cotillard in the movie. She seems like an authentic creep to me for some reason so when the worm finally turns and she sticks the knife into Batman's side, showing her true colors, it plays well.

Honestly, sex scenes in movies (whether they're shown or implied) are mostly superfluous titillation. They don't contribute anything. But the sex scene with Bruce and Talia develops both characters. Bruce is going through a pretty serious depression. He loses Rachel all over again in a certain sense, he loses Alfred, he loses his fortune and now he's unknowingly sleeping with the enemy. He'll literally hit rock bottom in the near future but he's already pretty close to it when he hops into the sack with Talia.

Speaking of, that goes to the depths of how badly Talia wants revenge. She hates Bruce so much that she makes love to him... and, ahem, was apparently convincing with that. There's hate-f***ing. And then there's what Talia did with Bruce in TDKRises.

I mean, THAT is hatred right there. I may have my hangups but I've never despised anybody THAT much.

[The Dark Knight]

I rather enjoy Marion Cotillard in the movie. She seems like an authentic creep to me for some reason so when the worm finally turns and she sticks the knife into Batman's side, showing her true colors, it plays well.

Honestly, sex scenes in movies (whether they're shown or implied) are mostly superfluous titillation. They don't contribute anything. But the sex scene with Bruce and Talia develops both characters. Bruce is going through a pretty serious depression. He loses Rachel all over again in a certain sense, he loses Alfred, he loses his fortune and now he's unknowingly sleeping with the enemy. He'll literally hit rock bottom in the near future but he's already pretty close to it when he hops into the sack with Talia.

Speaking of, that goes to the depths of how badly Talia wants revenge. She hates Bruce so much that she makes love to him... and, ahem, was apparently convincing with that. There's hate-f***ing. And then there's what Talia did with Bruce in TDKRises.

I mean, THAT is hatred right there. I may have my hangups but I've never despised anybody THAT much.

It's interesting watching the film back to see the subtle things Talia did to progress the plot. A lot of it was gaining Bruce's trust over a period of time and relaying information back to Bane, as I assume she did with the underground reactor location.

One of my favorites is calling the board meeting to get everyone in one place for Bane. It reinforces my belief the most effective manipulations seem insignificant only until you later reflect on them. Simply remaining in the background means the asset is always active and observing.