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Retconning Dead Reckoning Part One into just Dead Reckoning makes business sense to me. Not as many people saw the first part as expected, and those who didn't may not be interested in jumping in for a story they aren't up to date with. Final Reckoning still gives connective tissue but allows it to be sold as a final chapter style film that appeals to a broader audience. I think Dead Reckoning, while great, needed to be a bigger hit to create more positive momentum. It will be interesting to see if the required interest is there.

[after]

After all these years I would seriously still say Nicholson is my number one guy as the Joker. He provides a package that resembles my type of comics while retaining the required darkness. An aspect of B89 I like is how we get a glimpse into Jack's psyche after the transformation. He speaks about the trauma of falling into the chemicals and crying inside. His former self is still buried under there, providing depth, but it's not dwelt on. He's a brand new person who knows who he was and what happened, but moved on and embraced insanity. He's in character too much now for it to hurt him. For a one movie performance they packed a lot in there and a lot of it's right.

The thought occurred to me they're laying the groundwork/justification for Robin. I don't think it will literally be Vic, though. I'm not even sure he'll survive the series.

True! Penguin ascending to the throne as the Kingpin of Gotham is the hook, and what I previously thought would be the most interesting thing about the show by a mile (including Colin Farrell's performance), but again, Cristin Milioti as Sofia made this show more gripping, and it's better for it. We'll have to enjoy the time we get.

Without a doubt. The victory of The Penguin is the extended form of storytelling. The Falcone/Maroni/Penguin turf war hasn't been explored to this extent in live action and it's being done justice. It makes me think the next spinoff should focus on Harvey Dent and his descent into Two-Face. I think TDK did okay with that, but it couldn't compete with an in-depth miniseries. I think this model (film - television series - film - television series, rinse repeat) is excellent and would be wise to continue going forward even beyond the Reevesverse. Especially if we have great actors who deserve more time in their roles.

Thanks for the overview, Doc. I've accepted that nothing will feel like a legitimate continuation of the Burton duology and we don't need connective tissue in between the films anyway. The questions Resurrections seeks to answer never perplexed me and we can already answer them ourselves. Bruce simply being reclusive and not spending enough time with Vicki is enough reason why they separated. Also, Joker saying "I mean, I say "I made you" you gotta say "you made me." I mean, how childish can you get?" can be taken at face value if we want. I'll still read the book (it's on the way anyway) but my expectations have been tempered.

[Sofia Falcone, you have never done a thing wrong in your life.]

Sofia Falcone, you have never done a thing wrong in your life.

Very much enjoying her performance. You can definitely see things from her perspective. The end of the last episode was one of the most satisfying things I've seen in a while and gets the viewer supporting her vendetta. Which is great from the perspective Oz is a villain who we shouldn't really be liking all that much despite his unique charisma. He'd be the best Survivor player in existence if he went on the show, managing to talk his way out of anything. He's going to have to make some ugly choices to become the kingpin, and Farrell said a lot of people will probably hate him by the end of it all. As Joker said in '89, "you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs."

Personally, my latitude with the sequel that seemingly everyone hates (except for myself, TDK, and perhaps a handful of other people! haha), is that there was never a franchise here. I am not really a fan of "subverting expectations" or taking big wild swings when it concerns formulaic franchises with entrenched fan expectations, but with Joker 2? I had none. It wasn't envisioned as a franchise, and it wasn't going to continue on as one either (atypical these days). Under that context, the news of it being something of a "musical", and statements from both Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix of wanting to do something that also brought the fear of failing in order to make it interesting, pretty much gave a intuitive indication that we were not going to get a by-the-numbers follow up.

I get the hate/dissatisfaction that Joker 2 has received, but at the same time, I'm very glad it exists.

 

I'm glad it exists too. The critical and financial response is disappointing of course, but that overwhelming negativity doesn't embarrass me to comply with the established narrative. Thinking more about it, I think Folie A Deux has a lot in common with the spirit of Last Action Hero. A fictional character stepping out of the big screen and into the real world. What happened after the events of the first movie is perfectly logical from that perspective. He killed, he was jailed, he went to court and then died. The movie people wanted (Joker breaking out, killing more people, eluding capture) was never going to happen in this construct. Arthur's life was always a tragedy. The way it ends up rings true to me. It feels nice and contained, and full circle.

To tell you the truth I would have liked Resurrection to feature no new villains at all and instead focus on Bruce's ruminations, the remnants of Joker's gang and the beginnings of Max Shreck's string pulling. I have no idea how much time the author is putting in between the two films but I never felt it was terribly large. I like the idea The Penguin being the second villain Batman faced after a period of relative calm following Joker's death. These books rewrite all that if readers are willing to consider them canon.

Thanks for your thoughts, GK. My copy is yet to arrive. I'm expecting to feel similar to you. A decent read that generally does a good job, but not without niggles.

However, as is typical with the Burtonverse's forays into the expanded canon, we have the same old issues. It isn't as extensive as the 89 comic run, but we still have to deal with a few big problems: trying to re-litigate the films, straying too far from the voices we recognize, and trying to make it more like the comics. It starts off well enough, but as the narrative progresses it becomes apparent that this isn't quite the 89 universe, particularly where Batman is concerned.

Not surprising. Any Burton continuation that has a closer relationship with Gordon or has references to Arkham Asylum gets an automatic red mark against it from me. These things didn't happen in the first two films and I see no reason they would have in a third. I believe Resurrection features a scene of Batman in daylight, and while that was an unused idea for B89, it nonetheless didn't feature and I just can't imagine this incarnation doing that.

[ALL]

I like darker material as much as anyone. But I do think the tone of modern content has become repetitive and exhausting. There just doesn't seem to be that spark of magic. Goosebumps still interests me because I believe it does have that. The market of children's novellas means there's added pressure on creating scary ideas. Importantly, Stine gives us a nice mix of mystery and humor that makes this a world you're eager to dive in to. I'm about half way through the original run of books (taking my time) and I'm still finding things to enjoy.

On this topic, as I've gotten older my belief has cemented that Batman should be something ALL ages should be able to watch. B66, BTAS and the Burton/Schumacher series fit that criteria. B89 and BR are the darkest of those interpretations but they're undeniably comic book with a sense of adventure. The restrictions on BTAS were also a blessing in disguise as far as I am concerned.

An atmosphere of constant hard violence and swearing runs the risk of becoming one note and lacking the full nuance the world of Batman deserves. Absolute Batman rubbed me the wrong way in this regard. It actually makes me feel like that style interpretation is LESS valid because it's not mainstream. A permission to now like the characters and material because it's been made less 'embarrassing'. I think the trick is presenting something unreal so we have the desire to wish it was. Escapism 101.

I do think a course correction is required in the near future.