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We have something very special here with The Dark Knight. On the contrary, maybe there will come a time when the very vocal Burton supporter will come to appreciate the 'crime drama in a cape'.

I think that time has come.  Burton supporters have embraced TDK.

Like me 

First off, I'm in the camp that thinks TDK is really, really good, but not perfect.  I do think this guy's take, even though I respect and understand it, is a bit nitpicky.  Gladiator won Best Picture in 2000, and if you look at the gaffs page on IMBD it has several that I would'nt have noticed had this gaff page not pointed them out.

My issues: 

1.  Dialog from Rachel as she and Dent were waiting to be saved was not believable.  She didn't seem that invested to me.

2.  Gordon's son not looking at all surprised to see his father alive as Gordon visits him in his room.   Before the kid woke up, I thought Gordon was going to scare the crap out of him, but he was as calm as a cucumber.   

3.  The claw-like device Batman uses to bend the gun and claw on to the side of the Scarecrow's van.  For what other purpose does it serve other than to bend a gun and claw on to the van.  Seems like it was created just for that scene.


More of a point of confusion rather than a criticism, but I'm still not sure as to whether or not Batman and Dent planned to have Harvey take the fall as Batman so that they could catch the Joker.  Bruce Wayne destroying evidence in his new Batcave would say this was Just Harvey's idea and that Harvey had faith Batman would save him, but Rachel says something to the effect that Batman is using Harvey as bait?  Also, did Harvey know Gordon was alive all along or not?

1.  The Dark Knight
2.  Batman
3.  Batman Begins
4.  Superman Returns
5.  Spider Man 2
6.  Superman The Movie
7.  Superman II
8.  X-Men 2
9.  Batman Returns
10.  Hellboy

I mean both Burton and Nolan's versions of Batman each have something
great to offer. I don't understand why people of both fandoms can't have
a reasonable discussion without hurting eachother.

Good post.  I've all too often been dragged into this scuffle, more in defense of B89 than anything else (Burton/BR etc.), but I liked BB, and I really love TDK.  You are right, both directors have something great to offer.  As I mature as a Batfan, I hope to avoid these polarized pitfalls (except for maybe the Shumacher films  ), and appreciate all respectfull interpretations of the character.  Instead of being a "Burtonite" or a "Nolanite," I am going to try to be a Batman fan first.

I'm mixed.  I like the streamlined elements of the Returns suit, but I don't like the armor aspect.  I like the muscle armor of the B89 suit, but the head looks a little bulky.  So I guess I like them both  

If this keeps up, I'll have to reevaluate my opinion of BR

I much prefer B89 to BR in terms of film, and although I love several tracks on the B89 score, the BR score overall is superior IMO.  I just wish it had more of a connection to Batman.

Over here in the states we dont even have a fast food promotion. We only had a Dominoes deal that had Batman boxes and a TDK themed website. Maybe they were afraid of the "Returns Backlash" so attempted kids meals only overseas. There was an article in USA Today where soem parents were upset over the overall content of TDK. We'll have to wait and see how this all plays out.

I haven't seen much in the way of fast-food tie in's here in the U.S. either, other than Dominos Pizza, but I was wondering when someone was going to question some of the TDK merchandise towards kids.   I've read somewhere that the TDK was mostly marketed towards adults and that there were to be more generic Batman merchandise for the kiddies, but I have seen a lot of TDK merchandise marketed towards kids i.e. action figures, toys in cereal, pajamas, kids bedding etc. TDK is not a kid friendly film.  Both times I saw TDK, kids I consider too young to were there view it.  I'm a father, and there's no way he's seeing TDK before he's 13.  If he asks me why he can have the TDK action figure but can't see the movie, I just have to do what all parents should do, PARENT.  I can see the point about sending a contradictory message via marketing so there is some blame there, but honestly parents, do your homework before letting your kid see ANY film and stop blaming other people for your inept parenting.  I wouldn't worry about it though, TDK is a juggernaught that no amount of complaining about Happy Meals can derail

I obviously don't know Bale personally, but from what I have observed, this falls outside of his character.  I'm waiting for both sides of the story before making a judgment on this.

But isn't this exactly what Tim Burton did in BR?

The Penguin had NO character prior to Burton showing up.  So he took a few details from the comics (intellect, running for mayor/penchant for high society, etc) and otherwise reimagined the character because none existed previously... and that only because the studio demanded Penguin be included in the movie.  The arms dealer or night club owner versions of the character were still years away.

The Joker, by contrast, is probably the most well developed character in all of Batman's rogue's gallery.  There was never any need to change the fundamental nature of who he is.

I just reread BatmAngelus' BR influences thread and understand where you are coming from, but I still find Heath's Joker to be very much in the spirit of Batman #1 and TKJ, as it appears (thanks to you thecolorsblend as well as BatmAngelus) Burton's Penguin was to his core elements.  If it comes down to appearances then, I don't find Heath's appearance to be any more of a stretch (in fact I think its less of one) than what Burton tweaked for the Penguin in BR.  The Penguin's look was established many years prior to BR, and based on the frame in BatmAngelus'  thread, looks nothing like what we saw in the film.  Burton stretched a little further with the Penguin's appearance in BR than Nolan did with the Joker's in TDK, while keeping the core elements of the character intact.