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[THEY DID US RIGHT]

Good videos. Also a good reminder of how much crap I'm willing to let WB slide by with when it comes to Batman. Some fans are kind of ticked off at how the pre-Nolan movies have been relegated to the dustbin but (A) it's only business, you can't blame them for wanting to most heavily promote (what was at the time) the new franchise and (B) dude, THEY DID US RIGHT with that mega DVD set from 2005. Swanky remastering work, remixed soundtracks, commentaries, expensive interviews and documentaries, the whole shebang. To this day, that set occupies a special place in my collection.

AMEN to that!!! When I saw that there were SE of the Batman movies coming out, I was beyond excited. I counted down the days, and I was at best buy when they opened to buy my copy of BR. I went home and popped that second disc in and was in heaven! Plus I'd NEVER seen the Face To Face video! I was so impressed and happy I went out about a week layer and bought B89. While I admit I was curious about BF & B&R, to this day I have yet to purchase them. WB knew what we wanted and they gave it to us!

I'll never understand why so many people dislike the new origins of Catwoman and especially Penguin in Returns. They were so much more interesting and shocking. Sure they'll never be definitive...but they should be folks!

There's a selective "it wasn't that way in the comics" argument that gets made when it comes to Burton. But the poor guy was caught between a rock and a hard place. The Penguin in the comics up to then wasn't much of a character at all. As for Catwoman... well, she could've been a flight attendant with amnesia, a battered wife or a hooker.

What was Burton supposed to do exactly, Nolanites?

And while we're at it, how is Burton giving the Penguin flipper hands worse than taking Bane's venom away and making him into the LOS's lackey?

Here's the Character Bios from the SE DVD/Blu Ray that talks about that.

CATWOMAN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QGH9xuggKg&feature=colike

PENGUIN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq44V4RBLRg&feature=colike

I'm glad Nolan used Catwoman and I admire Hathaway but she never even came close to Pfeiffer in my book. God I HATE that costume lol I find it amusing the Catwoman Nolan wanted to do is the very same version Daniel Waters chose to avoid at all cost back in 1992. The tough as nails woman who merely throws on a costume. Pfeiffer's Selina Kyle was so much more interesting and tragic to watch in both personalities. They have the cheek in "The Making of the Dark Knight Trilogy" book to say Hathway's Catwoman was "more nuanced than past incarnations". Yeaaaaah right! lol Not what I saw thank you very much. Maybe the tv Catwomen but not Ms Pfeiffer.

I'll never understand why so many people dislike the new origins of Catwoman and especially Penguin in Returns. They were so much more interesting and shocking. Sure they'll never be definitive...but they should be folks!

I suppose for me, BR was my introduction to Catwoman. So I see nothing wrong with it. Imagine that moving coming out today? First, Michelle is blonde, second, she's not a hooker, and third, she not flippin crazy either! Many would argue that she's not REALLY a thief, where Anne was. And that was the first thing I noticed, Anne's Catwoman is everything Michelle's isn't! Which is why Michelle is still THE best! I have a few vintage Michelle shirts that Ive been rocking recently, and I also bought a few Anne ones as well-- let me just say I get a better response from the Michelle shirts than I do the Anne ones. Hell, even Tim Burton admits that Michelle is THE greatest performance he's ever seen in his movies! And he cast Johnny Depp in like almost everything it seems! Anne's Catwoman was good, but nothing incredibly interesting or exciting compared to Michelle's.

I think there are times when risks like this work, and other times...it doesn't. Personally, I loath and love X3. I love it because Jean FINALLY becomes Phoenix, but it's HOW they go about it that I loath. That was a time i don't feel it worked. i was that angry fan boy saying "thats not how it happened." Yet I love BR Catwoman. So again, all depends on HOW these movies go about the characters.

This is not totally about Batman Returns, but I watched B89 again for the first time in a long while, and it struck me how this would have felt in comparison to the 60s show. For example, Romero's Joker goes into an art gallery exhibit and vandalises with his own paint. He takes glee in it and then leaves. Then jump forward to 1989, and we have Nicholson's Joker gassing a museum and dancing around *dead* bodies. He takes glee in it as well, but the dead bodies is quite a jump. The 89 Batman film has death front and centre, eg. the "get a grin again, and again" commercial, and talking to fried corpses. IMO Burton presents the darkness of such acts but in a comicy way where it isn't totally offensive or confronting, but I can see how a kid who grew up on the 60s Batman would be taken back by it. And then BR came along.

Most of the marketing on that film was convincing people that this is not going to be Adam West style and instead more serious and darker. They rushed a trailer in mainly to quell the protests over Keaton- up until then he was a comedic actor, he needed to be shown as a serious Batman.

With returns the marketing is of course the topic at hand.

Forever was more marketable because it was deemed to be one the kids would like. And people were excited for Robin.

Batman and Robin- well the entire film is basically a toy commercial and people did want to see more of Robin. But there was quite a bit of hype.

Batman Begins perhaps wasn't marketed well but there wasn't a huge buzz. People liked it but it didnt set the world on fire the way any of the 4 previous films did.

The same can be said for the last 2 movies. There's been hype, but nothing near what there was of the past. Then again, marketing like that was something unheard of back then. Especially B89. Nothing like that had ever been done before. As it was said in an interview, B89 was probably the best market movie of all time. That bat logo was everywhere! I remember as a kid in the summer of 89 (and even 92) everything was Batman. It had been 20 years since Batman was relevant in the public eye, and as mentioned, at least in the minds of the public, the tv series is what Batman "was". Burton came and changed all that, and they made it very well know that it would be nothing like the tv series. Bob Kane even said he preferred the dark and brooding version over a comedic one.

That was really the only time that it worked as it did. BF was only 2 years after BR, and BB was 8 years after B&R but again, as mentioned, the Bat movies were still a joke, and I'm sure "that movie of which we do not speak of" involving a certain feline rouge didn't help the cause either. Thankfully, these movie have been restored to a more positive light, and I hope that in the not TOO distant, but not so close future, we are given a good balance of fantasy & realism, so characters like Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, and even Penguin (though Danny was perfect casting!), may be given another chance, and possibly even new characters may join the ranks in Bat Cinema.

I found this on youtube, it aired shortly after the release of BR. Anyone remember watching this amazing cartoon series? They were ALWAYS doing Batman cameo spoofs (it was WB after all). I didn't realize that Paul Dini and Bruce Timm were apart of this before BTAS! Makes sense though. In past episodes there were cameo spoofs by Keatons Batman and even Pfeiffers Catwoman. Other cameos included Nicholson, but as himself.  This episode however has Tim Burton (well a animated cameo spoof) on set to make "Batman 37". Kind of interesting since he was looking to make his Batman III anyways. Just fun to watch if you get a chance. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZwrQ3zZroc&feature=colike

Since seeing Michelle dawn the mask & whip for Batman Returns, there has been a longing for a CATWOMAN based movie. (Wait. There was? Halle who? what are you smokeing?) I think that IF someone came along (Hell even Tim Burton) and didn't a Origin story, that was dark, gritty, and gave the character of Selina Kyle a REASON to become Catwoman (aside from BR), it might actually be success. Some good actors wouldn't hurt either! What are your thought's on how the story could develop?

Personally, I think her "post crisis/year one/Her Sister's Kepper" story line would be a good basis, obviously, it would need to be lifeted a bit so it meets Hollywood standards, but I think it's a good start. I read the script idea for the Pfeiffer spin off few years back. Not the greatest, and a tad bit silly, but better than "that of which we do not speak of"

even 1995's batman forever; didnt stand the test of time but at the time people couldnt get enough of the film and the character. I'd be willing to bet there was more batman buzz in 1995 than there was in 2005. Not that this is necissarily Nolan's fault it had been 8 years since the last film and that one was a disaster.

2008 the dark knight was definitely popular although thats a great question is how much of it was Ledger and the joker?

the dark knight rises has been out for a month and already the hypes died down people are back to talking about the avengers.

I do remember quite a bit of hype over BF. Everything was green! I actually think there was a bigger hype over that then BR (as much as I don't like admitting that!). And B&R was total overkill. I mean every character (except for Bane) got their face on EVERYTHING!!!  But like you said, it's not reeeaaallllly the Batman character, it's everything else. People had seen Batman after 2 movies. Sure this was a new actor, but we'd seen it. But this time...there was ROBIN!!! While Riddler was "the main" villain, I was more excited to see Two-Face, someone not yet seen in live action. As with B&R, Poison Ivy wasn't someone we'd seen yet (which I think she did a great job considering the rest of the film).

This time around though, the Batman hype wasn't as great I felt. Sure I was excited seeing Catwoman on screen again, but I guess I was kinda hoping for some nostalgic feeling of what happened 20 years ago. There was sooo much success and hype created by TDK, that even the 2:45 running time didn't live up to this movie I felt. Yes it was good. But the 2nd & 3rd time i saw it, I passed out at the same part-- both times: ACT 2! It could be because I saw late night showing but still.

TDK just had a longer lasting impression because there was no big build up hype. I think most people were kinda of turned of by Heath's Joker at first, but then he died, and his performance was spectacular! So the bar was set. You can't write Bane or even Catwoman like you can Joker. I don't really here many people saying how amazing Anne was honestly. I still here "Hathaway was good, but Pfeiffer was better!".

Another thing about the hype with these movies, B89 was huge and left a lasting positive impression; thus paved the way for BR. When that movie didn't live up to "social media standards", it was time to revive the franchise again-- thus BF came along and brought something new...and bright! Sadly as we all know, B&R killed it, and it was reborn in 2005 with BB. It's a vicious cycle it's seems. Especially since there is so much to live up to, yet creators still have to find away to make it theirs. I feel it's time to let the bat rest for awhile before we let him out of the cave again.

I know fans are going crazy about a Hathaway Catwoman figure coming up. Personally I'm saving my money for the main event. You just know that Pffeifer one is going to blast her's off the shelf lol

I'm right with you. I've opted over the years to get that custom figure I see on ebay all the time. I probably should have when it was like $80...now it's around $300. I wish they would start pre order for these so I can ensure getting one. That would be like the "holy grail" of my Catwoman collection!

Here's the custom one:

Really all 3 sets of movies seemed like just what the doctor ordered at the time;
Prior to Burton everyone thought of Batman as the goofy day cop who slides down a poll, Kane wanted a much more darker image presented and Burton gave us that
The general consensus was Burton's Batman Returns was a shade too dark, Schumachers first film gave us a lighter one
Everyone hated Batman and Robin for being to kiddy. I'm sure when everyone first saw Begins in 2005, the grittiness was refreshing (and then the internet war started)
Nolanites aside, the general consensus from the dark knight rises is too gritty and not enough fun. Another way to put it is "not enough Burtonesque"

I agree with. Although as I mentioned, I love the darkness of BR. :-)

I agree. I think there is plenty wrong with Nolan's films. My big issue with the realism is it takes the fun out of Batman which whatever way you look at it is a unique concept. Imagine Penguin in Nolan's films. Had he appeared I believe his monocle would be gone. His cigarrete holder would be gone. His gadget laden umbrellas would be dispensed. There would certainly be no army of mind controlled penguins. Instead there would likely be an army of mercenaries with machine guns. All those prior things make the Penguin the Penguin. Same with the Joker. How many comics have you seen where he uses smylex gas? Electric hand buzzers? Boxing glove launchers? e.c.t. Yet in The Dark Knight it's all just knives, gassoline and shotguns.

All this stuff creates a bigger threat but the fun stuff is absent that is wholly unique to Batman's world.

I still think the "truer" version to Batman is the animated series by Bruce Timm. Because it had it all in one big melting pot. Realistic violence, fun comic visuals, colourful and believable villains, dark Burtonesque tone, serious believable stories and spectacular voice acting worthy of Nolan.

See that's how I feel! I understand wanting to "ground" heroes these and making them real, but there IS a line which divides reality & fantasy. And if your a smart director, you'll know how close you can get to reality, without taking out too much of the fantasy aspect. Burton I feel kept a good balance of that. It' all made sense. That's why Pfeiffer's Catwoman looked the way she did. Ok so it was supposed to be hand stitched vinyl, which in relaity was rubber drenched in silicone to give the shine, but you actually believed she made that. THAT'S what I loved about it. He was able to take fantasy and bring it out of the comics, but no flatten in on the ground. DKR is a bit 'too' grounded. after seeing it a few times now, i honestly think TDK is the best out of all the recent Batman movies. And ofcourse, B:TAS is just a epic classic. I don't know if another Animated Comic series will ever live up to it. Although, the X-Men cartoon comes close (despite its animation flaws), but still not as great as B:TAS.

It's funny because tho Begins is a terrific film and I loved every minute of it I really don't think it set the world alight with excitement people claim. It certainly was not on the scale of the original Burton Batman which took over the planet that summer. I think in the long run the original Batman left a deeper groove in the minds of people than Begins.

I will say that BB IS a great film. It's not too long where as i felt TDK dragged a tad bit, and DKR certainly did especially during Act 2. I think after B&R, BB was a great refreshing re-introduction as to WHY we love Batman and got back to the core of the character. Exactly what Burton did. And like you said, Batman OWNED the summer of 89, and 92 might i add. I think the impact in 92, while not as strong when it hit, was actually more lasting thanks the B:TAS. It prolonged the power of the character. At least that's how I see it. Batman was EVERYWHERE in 92!!! As Nicholson mentioned in Special Edition interviews, the studios were not prepared for the level of success of  B89. Which is understandable, and explains why they went all out for BR! I suppose they figured they had this in the bag. Which they did, but when the "cat was out of the bag" so to speak, it wasn't what was expected-- hence the 'controversy'. 

The impact of Nolans movies I don't believe are as strong as what Burton did over 20 years ago. Yes it gives a new generation a chance to experience Batman, but I feel that's due to the plethora of comic book movies we have these days. It's spoiled really. I just hope that when (cuz we know WB will) there is another Batman it's something really special.

[THIS]

B89, Adam West and The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told were my introduction to the character so from day one Batman has never been just one thing to me. But there is a very weird and very unwelcome exclusivistic view among some fans that says "Batman can only be THIS", which both ignores history and overlooks the character's versatility (the primary reason for his longevity in my opinion).

Lest I be accused of being tolerant, kind, open-minded and ecumenical, let me hasten to point out that hipster fans piss me right off. Not a one of them had ever read or knew much about BY1 before that damn animated movie came out. They own posters, figures, t-shirts and other junk but have read exactly jacknothing. But when stuff like that gets adapted into a movie, suddenly they're huge fans of and huge experts about whatever it is.

A year ago, they wouldn't have known or cared who the hell Sarah Essen is. After the BY1 DVD came out though, suddenly they were huge fans of her and don't understand why she didn't stick around in the comics (although I guess they'll stop wondering that after they finish the No Man's Land trades, thanks to TDKRises).

To tie it all back, the fans who aren't studio plants and troll web forums causing trouble and picking fights generally fall into the above hipster category.

Some would call my attitude geek elitism, and I can't argue that. I guess I just resent some punk kid trying to dictate to me "the way things ought to be". I was reading and collecting all these comics when he was getting ready to swim through a hole in somebody's condom. It's insulting.

I completely agree with you! I know plenty of people my age (in their mid-late 20s) who are those "hipster fans." The live by Nolan's Batman and while most of them might have seen Burtons, they are almost turned off by it! It's all about "whats wrong" with the movies. As for me, I love both B89 & BR more than all 3 of Nolan's movies. I personally prefer, but not to exclusive to Burtons movies. For me, they were just my first real exposure, and had such an impact on me, that the lasting effect has last 20 years and is still going strong.

The again, my opinion may a tad bit bias since I have a fondness for things dark & twisted. Batman is a DARK HERO, so I feel Burton 'purrfectly' captured that in his movies. I actually got into a debate few weeks ago at a bbq over the differance between all 3 Batman Sagas. I say 3 because BF & B&R really are their own set when you look at them from a visual perspective. I stood by my love for Burtons movies, as people tried to convince me Nolan had hit everything on the nail with his. I then asked if anyone had actually read a Batman comic...and no one really gave a straight answer. My point was is that Batman is like any comic character, always evolving. And since DC has had several rebooted versions of the character, I think every director has hit the nail on the head, just depends on which era you look at. Nolan's is simply just the Batman of the early 21st Century.