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Topics - eledoremassis02

The issues with Val Kilmer and Joel Schumacher were pretty well known but I've been reading things that don't put Shumacher in a good light. Eitor Paul Hirschmann (in his book A Long Time Ago in a Cutting Room Far, Far Away) mentioned that Schumacher was rather inappropriate with crew during Falling Down and even publicly embarrassed him after mentioned a shot was out of focus.

Now, Bob Ringwood has brought some more issues to light, even a case of physical abuse. Its also interesting to note that the Ice Suits were not Ringwood aprooved and thats what caused him to remove his name from the film.

These were taken from this reddit (Ringwood also talks about the Burton Films) as posted from the Batman Online Facebook page

I've been hearing that there are different takes in the edit used in the current 35 anniversary live orchestra screenings.

One of them being Alfred telling Bruce that Viki had arrived in the Batcave.

Another is also a different take for the "We're going to be here for quite some time" scene.
Wrote a big thing about the current state of Burtons Batman but in all honesty I'm kind of tired of the negativity.

So, I think it would be fun to write things we do like, and are glad to see in newer Batman.

For me,

- I'm glad to see nods to Shumachers Batman in the 89 comic.
- I'm glad Keatons Batman still has the movies. I always thought he'd just blow up Bane, but he'd whipe the floor with him
- I'm glad we got to see some form of Robin even though Keatons Batman doesnt really fit with that.
- I'm glad Keatons Batman in the flash doesnt mention robin and his relationship with Barry kind of gives us a hint on how Keaton may have delt with one
- The Flash gave us one of the best live action Batcaves
- Batmans theme has come back to him after being used in Justice League
- There was a sence of love for Keaton and his Batman with Andy Muschietti (even if I didnt agree with all his choiced)
- I am glad Keaton got to play Batman again

 Tim Burton invites us into his world to talk Beetlejuice 2, the comic book craze and what motivates him now he's 40 years into his career.

15 September 2023

By Lou Thomas

In 2008, the Museum of Modern Art (MoMa) approached Tim Burton about exhibiting a retrospective of his artwork. The venerable New York institution spent the best part of two years unearthing the director's distinctive gothic-flavoured drawings, ultimately putting on an exhibition that included 500 drawings, paintings, photographs, sketchbooks, moving-image works and sculptural installations. Burton himself still seems bemused as he recalls seeing MoMa's efforts: "It was the most surreal experience I ever had, because it was never stuff I thought about. It was all drawings that I just... did."

Popular with art-lovers and fans of his films alike, The World of Tim Burton began touring in 2015 and reaches Turin in October, where it appears at the National Museum of Cinema. In Italy, Burton will be given the Stella della Mole award, which museum director Domenico De Gaetano and president Enzo Ghigo say is "a recognition of his visionary and innovative contribution with his inimitable style to the history of cinema".

At the time of writing, Burton is hard at work editing Beetlejuice 2 in the south of France, and is set to be involved in a new series of Addams Family spin-off Netflix series Wednesday once the Screen Actors Guild – American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (SAG-AFTRA) and Writers Guild of America strikes are resolved.

Beetlejuice 2 will be the 20th feature Burton has directed in a career that has seen him kickstart the comic-book movie craze decades before the Marvel Cinematic Universe with Batman (1989), celebrate the director of what some consider the worst film of all time with Ed Wood (1994) and narrowly miss out on making a Superman film with Nicolas Cage. Along the way, he's ruffled a few studio feathers with his outlandish ideas and designs (it may well have been the box-office performance of his bonkers alien invasion flick Mars Attacks! (1996) that got his Superman film canned).

Born and raised in Burbank in California's San Fernando Valley and rolling his sentences back and forth in a relaxed Valley accent, Burton is forthright and fun when we speak on Zoom in late August, laughing throughout.

What got you into animation to begin with?

Like a lot of kids, I liked drawing, and then I liked making little super 8 films. That often involved doing a little stop-motion animation. One of the first films that had an impact on me was Jason and the Argonauts (1963). I'll never forget seeing that at the Catalina Theatre, inside a giant seashell.

Then, because I could never have a real job, I got into CalArts. So I got into it feeling not different from most kids, then just following through a little bit with it.

How important would you say animation and your artwork has been, as an aspect of your career?

Going to CalArts wasn't like film school, but it was like film school – because each year you do however many seconds of animation, but you'd storyboard it, animate it, shoot it, edit it, so you really got the full filmmaking package, just through animation. That was quite exciting. It taught you composition, it taught you timing and things like that. It was a very, very valuable tool and feeling, going into filmmaking.

After you made your first studio short Vincent (1982), is it true that Disney got rid of you because you were too weird?

I did Vincent, and I did Frankenweenie (1984) there, and yes, they did not renew my – I didn't have a contract – and that's when I went to Warner Brothers and did Pee-wee's Big Adventure (1985). So, without them saying that, yes.

That was the final nail in my coffin at that point. My coffin was unearthed years later, and then I was then re-staked, and put back in. I'm like a vampire. I've been killed and resuscitated many times.

You mention Pee-wee's Big Adventure. You wrote that lovely message on Instagram about Paul Reubens after he died. "I'll never forget how Paul helped me at the beginning of my career. It would not have happened without his support. He was a great artist. I'll miss him." Could you expand on that?

Because he had probably as equal or more say as the studio, in a way. That's why I was always grateful. I'd only done two short films, and at that time, that was unheard of – to go from doing two short films that nobody saw to doing a feature film. So even I knew that this was very special and amazing. If he hadn't been supportive, it wouldn't have happened.

What are your memories of working with Paul on the film?

I love the character. It was a surreal experience for me. All of a sudden, to be working with the crew and all these people with Paul, the surrounding comedians and characters. He was great, because it was the first time working with people that are from improv. Because I didn't really speak, I'd sit in a dark room with animation drawings.

I got to play in so many funny little genres that it felt quite easy. He felt comfortable with me, and I was there to basically support that character. Luckily, I didn't know anything [about the difficulties of making films], so I wasn't scared of anything.

How are you getting on with Beetlejuice 2?

Good, except we had a day and a half left before the strike happened. I feel lucky that we got as far as we did. It is like 98, 99% done. It was a great experience. It reinvigorated my love of making movies.

You've been working with some of your old friends – Winona Ryder, Catherine O'Hara and Michael Keaton in particular – who've appeared in several of your films. They've become TV stars to new audiences, aside from being movie stars, in things like Stranger Things, Schitt's Creek and Dopesick. How has that been?

Yeah, incredible. It's so weird because I don't overly keep in contact with people, but this was very special, because obviously the sequel had been talked about for 35 years. I truly never quite understood the success of the first one. It's one of life's beautiful mysteries.

When I did this one, I didn't look at the first movie, because it didn't feel like it would help. I treated it just very much as a project where, after 35 years, the anchor for me is what happened to Lydia, what happened to the Deetz family? What happened to the living people? What happens to people we see at one stage in their life, then you see them many years later? What the f*** happened to that person?

What happened to Catherine? What happened to Charles? This is what interests me. This is what gives it an anchor for me. Where are these people after 35 years?

So that anchored the emotion and the feeling, then working with Michael and Winona and Catherine, and also with Jenna [Ortega] and having these new people, all this beautiful new blood into it. We ended up doing the same idea – no digital effects, puppets, strings, wires, makeup, and tried to shoot it with the same spirit; with all these actors, they're so good at improv. I didn't realise until lately, we shot about the same number of days as the first one.

Working with these people again, and seeing them all, it was very emotional for me. Again, just going back to the old, same puppets and techniques. It goes back to the good old days.

What can you tell me about your working relationship with Michael?

Beautiful. He was the same way. He didn't want to do it [initially] – he had no necessarily burning desire, but I have to say, it was the most fun. It reminded me of back in the old days, this unhinged thing unleashed on the set. I was quite shocked at how easy it was for him to kick it back into it. It was like demon possession.

One more word about Michael. You obviously made two brilliant Batman films with him. Why did we never get a third from you guys?

Well, the studio, it was like the earlier Disney situation. They had enough of me for that one. I think I upset McDonald's or something.

Since your films, the character's never really gone away from the cinema. Do you feel any responsibility or pride in that?

I felt lucky, because I can still remember this feeling of being there the first time, when it felt new, and there's always something exciting about that. It's incredible that it's gone on and keeps reinventing itself. But one thing that I have that is very personal is that I felt very new at the beginning, and that was exciting. For its flaws and everything, it felt like new territory at the time. I'm very, privately, proud of that feeling.

You mentioned Jenna, who you also directed in the first four episodes of Wednesday. Are you going to be working on season two, as well?

I mentally put stuff on hold until all the strikes are over. I can edit and do things I can do, but until the veil is lifted, then things get back into it. But yeah, I'll be involved in some [way]. I'm not quite sure, because everything has stopped at the moment.

Can you tell me more about your collaboration with Jenna?

When I did Wednesday, the reason I loved it is I just related to the character so much. But to me, it could not have been done without her. You can write it good, you can do whatever you want to do, but that kind of a character would need such clarity and purity and strength. A person has to have that. So for me, she basically made the show that way.

She's one of the most aware, not only as an actress, but everything, around the camera, the set. She's a very special talent. And she's done a lot of horror movies, which I love too. That gave her a special place in my heart. "Oh, you're doing another horror. Good."

Some 20 films and almost 40 years into your career, what motivates you now? What's the key to longevity in Hollywood?

I felt like I was sinking into my own grave there for a second. But honestly, it depends. You get energised making things, whatever it is – it's a drawing or a film. I think, especially [with] this last one, where you get your energies is the back and forth with working with these artists.

Earlier this year, The Flash contained a sequence within a multiverse, where they briefly show Nicolas Cage as Superman. In 1998 you were three weeks away from shooting Superman Lives with Nicholas as the star when the plug was pulled after two years of pre-production. Do you have any regrets about that?

No, I don't have regrets. I will say this: when you work that long on a project and it doesn't happen, it affects you for the rest of your life. Because you get passionate about things, and each thing is an unknown journey, and it wasn't there yet. But it's one of those experiences that never leaves you, a little bit.

But also it goes into another AI thing, and this is why I think I'm over it with the studio. They can take what you did, Batman or whatever, and culturally misappropriate it, or whatever you want to call it. Even though you're a slave of Disney or Warner Brothers, they can do whatever they want. So in my latter years of life, I'm in quiet revolt against all this.

The Museo Nazionale del Cinema in Turin presents The World of Tim Burton, the exhibition dedicated to the creative genius of Tim Burton, conceived and co-curated by Jenny He in collaboration with Tim Burton and adapted by Domenico De Gaetano for the Museo Nazionale del Cinema. For the first time in Italy the exhibition will be on view at the Mole Antonelliana from 11 October 2023 to 7 April 2024.

Tim Burton's Batman screens as part of Batman Day at BFI IMAX on 16 September.
For those that don't know what Playstation Dreams is, it's a game where people can make their own games and others can play them.

I found this fun Batman Forever driving game. It's very short but its pretty fun! I'd post video of it, but im not sure how to record it but I suggest giving it a try if you have Playstation Dreams.

The Flash (2023) / One thing the Flash did
Fri, 25 Aug 2023, 17:02
I'm watching it again on Max and it really shows how tragic the DCEU is.

This timeline Flash visits, is doomed to be destroyed by Zod because there is no Superman. Super Girl is not enough because she doesnt have the care for earth that clark has and wont go the level Clark did to protect it. It actually validates one of the biggest complaints (and linchpin of hate) of the DCEU.

It also prooves that Batman was correct in the World needing Superman. Wich also shows that like this earth, the DCEU is doomed to the nightmare timeline.

Another interesting thing I though of is that Batgirl is still cannon because its not just a slighlty different timeline than what we got in the final version.
The Flash (2023) / Deleted Scenes thread
Wed, 21 Jun 2023, 04:03
Figured I'd make a thread to talk about deleted scenes from leaks, scripts, trailers etc.

- A conversation with Bruce Wayne about the events in his life since Batman Returns
- Supergirl saying "are you ready?" from one of the deleted endings

- A scene where young Barry is seen drawing out designs for their new Flash suit
Next time I see The Flash I want to see if there are any hints about when Batman could have retired. Gotham is "the safest city in the world", so Batman was no longer needed.

Alfred is gone, and I am assuming he stopped around the same time, given that the talk of Alfred helps convince Batman to Return

The Batcomputer has been updated and features widescreen modern-ish monitors and the Batcomputer sports a mouse now (maybe thats a key).

The movie takes place around 2013 and in real life Michael Gough died in 2011. If Alfred died around that time and Batman retired around then, then he was inactive for 2-ish years wich I think could work well within the story.

If that is the case, that means he was Batman for about 23 years. Thats pretty respecatable.
Batman (1989) / NYC forest fire
Thu, 8 Jun 2023, 02:37
With the smoke coming from that fire in Canada, NYC is looking like Gotham!

Special from 2021 so it covers alot of movies, but thought I'd share!

Overall interesting video. Somethings I didnt really pick up on, but some things im not 100% sure of

1* Viki being included more in the final battle via reshoots
2** Billy dee williams was axed for a sequal because execs (reportedly) didnt want a black man to play the role.

* I woud be interested in reading up on any reshoots (I feel like there were probly not many since it feels very much like 89 was a "what you see is what you get" kind of film.

**There is no citation for the claim and I've heard everything from Billy Dee being too expensive to "he was supposed to be Shrek". I dont 100% doubt it, I mean it would be in WBs camp to hire him only to nix him for a stupid reason. Daniel Waters suggests he was never in it (Sam Hamm also mentions throwing him in to bring joker back and explain Dents scars in future films) and they they wanted to further seperate the sequal from the original.
Figure I'd jumpstart this   ;D

The Trailer states that when the Flash went back in time to prevent his Mothers death, he created a Universe with no Meta-Humans.

This is similar to Detective Comics #500's "To Kill a Legend"

Batman is given a chance to go to an alternate reality in order to prevent that time lines Waynes murders. It's stated this Universe has no mythological heroes or Super Heroes, not even Super-man. The comic ends with this universes Bruce Wayne inspiring to become Batman. Creating a Universe where Batman is the only Super Hero. 

Also noted: Batmans intervention stops Joe Chill from killing the Waynes, but another criminal is sent in his place, in the Waynes would be murders.

Misc Comics / Why is the art different?
Fri, 10 Feb 2023, 18:54
I have the Batman Archives for 1990 and I recently bought the golden collection digitally from Amazon.

I had a hunch they were recolored for digital but it turns out the art is different as well (at least in the first story).

Anyone know why?

Golden collection:

Archive collection:
Batman Forever (1995) / PC game question
Sun, 22 Jan 2023, 01:10
Does anyone know why they changed the suits for Batman and Robin suits for the PC game?
Batman Returns (1992) / Batman Returns toys
Sun, 6 Nov 2022, 13:48

This was a great trip down memory lane!
QuoteFollowing the surprise cancellation of Batgirl, a film that by all accounts was mostly finished, the newly formed Warner Bros. Discovery has been plagued with headlines about chaos behind the scenes as the new leadership struggles to cut costs while simultaneously rejuvenating brands like DC Comics. The studio has reportedly been searching for a Kevin Feige-type figure to do for DC what Feige does for Marvel, but the top candidate for the position, Dan Lin, has already bowed out.

At issue is the daunting task of righting a franchise that's been slowly rebuilding after the failure of 2017's Justice League. However, that process involved creating separate film universes for both Batman and Joker, and the whole thing is basically a huge mess. Especially when CEO David Zaslav wants a more connected DC Comics brand.

Adding even more uncertainty to the mix is talk of Warner Bros. Discovery being sold as quickly as possible. While the studio reportedly can't do anything until 2024, insiders believe that Comcast is waiting on the sidelines to swallow up the beleaguered entity. Via The Hollywood Reporter:

Given the company's daunting challenges, it has become accepted wisdom at the highest levels of the industry that another deal waits in the wings for Warner Bros. Discovery. For reasons related to the complicated structure of that merger, no negotiations can happen until April 2024. But at that point, many industry observers believe that Comcast's Brian Roberts will make a long-awaited move, looking to combine NBCUniversal and Warner Bros. Discovery.

That deal would face some interesting antitrust issues but would give his company scale and a viable streaming service. "Obviously Peacock sucks," says one exec with knowledge of both companies. "There are some good synergies. I'm sure [Roberts] is licking his chops because the [WBD] stock is so low. And I think that's Zaslav's endgame. Get the place sold."

When asked to comment on a potential sale, a WBD spokesperson simply told THR, "We are building Warner Bros. Discovery for the long term." That's not exactly a denial, so make of that what you will.

(Via The Hollywood Reporter)
Batman Forever (1995) / 35mm scope trailer 4k
Thu, 18 Aug 2022, 16:00

Looks pretty cool in this aspect ratio!
The Batman (2022) / Gotham City
Mon, 30 May 2022, 02:49
Just some shots from the Gotham Planning Special Feature. The shot of it showing behind the scenes makes me really want to see one of these films take place in the dead of winter!