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Should the different Ghostbusters threads be merged into a single topic? Or would everyone prefer they be kept separate?

Seems like there's enough GB fandom to power multiple threads. And besides, does anybody actually want Girlbusters 2016 mingling with the real Ghostbusters?

Love the Frozen Empire trailer. I should probably get around to watching Afterlife at some point if I'm going to prioritize FE tho.

Looks as average as Afterlife. Lame title, lame special effects and I still can't work out if that kid is a boy or a girl. The franchise ended with Ghostbusters 2, with The Game being a tasteful tribute. This kiddy stuff is a joke. If it didn't have the Ghostbusters branding I doubt people would care all that much.

Looks pretty good. Definitely kinda has that "Ghostbusters 2", and "The Real Ghostbusters" episodic vibe going where you know it's not going to have as many call-backs as "Afterlife." Plus, it was good seeing Bill Murray as Pete Venkman back right out of the gate with this. As I remember the question on if he was going to be in "Afterlife" seemed to be asked a lot. Right up until when the final trailer was released. More Ray and Winston is a good thing for sure!

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed,  8 Nov  2023, 21:29Love the Frozen Empire trailer. I should probably get around to watching Afterlife at some point if I'm going to prioritize FE tho.

I think there's a good chance you will like "Afterlife". It's much more in line with, "Cobra Kai", where there is an obvious affection for the past, than say, "Star Wars: The Last Jedi". Which was essentially a middle finger.

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Of the three Ghostbusters movies Sony has produced, Frozen Empire definitely looks closest to what I wanted from GB3. This is going to be make or break for the franchise. They need to prove they can tell compelling new stories without simply coasting on nostalgia like Afterlife did.

A few thoughts on the trailer.

It's cool seeing Janine suiting up as a Ghostbuster. She did so in the old cartoon, and I had an action figure of her in a Ghostbusters uniform when I was a kid, so it's nice to finally see her don the threads in live action.

Is that the ghost librarian? If so, they already caught her in the 2009 videogame.

Walter Peck still has no dick, but it's good to see William Atherton back.

I wasn't mad on the cutesy marshmallow men in Afterlife, and they have even less reason to be in this movie. I guess they're following the Disney Star Wars trend of small cute characters to sell merchandise.

I could also do without Patton Oswalt.

Slimer's back! He looks as adorably disgusting as ever.

It looks like the real Ghostbusters will have substantial lead roles in this and not just be glorified cameos.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 29 Jan  2024, 14:28Is that the ghost librarian? If so, they already caught her in the 2009 videogame.

Looks like the 2009 Video Game has been effectively Legends out of continuity (discrepancies with the Gozer/Ivo Shandor story line between the '09 game and GBAL seem to point to this as well). Speaking of which, it seems like the current Ghostbusters timeline continues to keep GB2 in only the most vague of terms.

QuoteWalter Peck still has no dick,

Indeed.

Quotebut it's good to see William Atherton back.

Yeah. Dickless being (presumably) the Mayor of NY should be interesting to see play out.

QuoteI wasn't mad on the cutesy marshmallow men in Afterlife, and they have even less reason to be in this movie. I guess they're following the Disney Star Wars trend of small cute characters to sell merchandise.

It's that. Kinda like how Legendary's Godzilla colors tend to change from movie to movie due to the almighty dollar with toy sales, but I have to wonder if there's something else going on here? Could we be getting a quick cameo of the giant Stay Puft Marshmallow Man confronting the big bad in "Frozen Empire"? Is that what Paul Rudd was Ho-Ho-Hoing about in the first trailer from the building top? Course, since the mini Stay Pufts are only adjacent to Gozer, and not Gozer itself, I wouldn't expect much of a fight. If anything, it might just be a fun gag like how giant Krang appeared very briefly in the "Turtles Forever" crossover movie... 

QuoteI could also do without Patton Oswalt.

You and me both.

QuoteSlimer's back! He looks as adorably disgusting as ever.

Yeah, Slimer was sorely missed in GBAL, but it's good to see him here. Also, I like how it looks like practical effects were used with the Librarian Ghost. Good stuff!

QuoteIt looks like the real Ghostbusters will have substantial lead roles in this and not just be glorified cameos.

It'll definitely help. For me, my biggest critique of GBAL is that it really needed a B or C subplot featuring Ray getting in contact with Winston, Peter, and Dana following his finding out about Egon's passing. I liked the Peter/Dana mid-end credits scene, and Winston's post-credit scene, but hey, the more OG Ghostbusters, the better.

Quote from: The Joker on Sat,  3 Feb  2024, 06:46Looks like the 2009 Video Game has been effectively Legends out of continuity (discrepancies with the Gozer/Ivo Shandor story line between the '09 game and GBAL seem to point to this as well). Speaking of which, it seems like the current Ghostbusters timeline continues to keep GB2 in only the most vague of terms.

Right now, my Ghostbusters headcanon includes the original 1984 movie, The Real Ghostbusters cartoon show, Ghostbusters II and the 2009 videogame. Maybe Extreme Ghostbusters as well, although I haven't seen that since it first aired and can't really remember it. So far the Sony stuff hasn't impressed me enough to replace any of these things.

It's like Disney Star Wars. I was willing to accept it as a substitute for the Expanded Universe as long as it was good. But ultimately it was inferior to the EU, so I still regard the EU as canon and Disney-era SW as apocrypha. I thought Afterlife was ok, but if I had to choose between it and the 2009 videogame, I'd choose the game. I really want to like Frozen Empire, and it looks better than the previous two Sony Ghostbusters movies, so hopefully I'll enjoy this one more. But this is the last chance I'm giving Sony to get it right. After this, I'm done.

Quote from: The Joker on Sat,  3 Feb  2024, 06:46It'll definitely help. For me, my biggest critique of GBAL is that it really needed a B or C subplot featuring Ray getting in contact with Winston, Peter, and Dana following his finding out about Egon's passing. I liked the Peter/Dana mid-end credits scene, and Winston's post-credit scene, but hey, the more OG Ghostbusters, the better.

My biggest gripe with Afterlife is that I don't buy the premise of Egon distancing himself from the other Ghostsbusters and going up against Gozer alone, or of the other Ghostbusters giving up on Egon and abandoning him.

First of all, why would Egon choose to face Gozer alone? To protect his friends? Why? They've faced life and death together many times and always triumphed as a team. How did they defeat Gozer the first time? By working together and crossing the streams; something none of them could have done individually. But now he chooses to alienate his comrades and go it alone, even though doing so will maximise the probability of failure and further endanger his friends and family in the long run. Egon was intelligent and always calculated the odds of success. He wouldn't have done something so illogical.

And why did the other Ghostbusters not believe his theory that Gozer was returning? What happened to 'We're ready to believe you'? When was Egon ever wrong in the past? They spent much of the first two films trying to convince sceptics that supernatural threats exist, and now, after all those battles, the other three Ghostbusters suddenly become sceptics themselves. If it was some random kook appearing on Venkman's World of the Psychic TV show who predicted Gozer's return, then I might believe they'd disregard the warning. But this is Egon we're talking about. Ray would never have given up on him.

That whole plot point was inconsistent with the characterisation of the Ghostbusters in the earlier films and TV shows. It was only there to keep the original Ghostbusters out of the way and so Ray could deliver his 'burn in hell' line for cheap shock value. So that's my biggest criticism. I understand that the writers had to adapt the story for Ramis's death, but I thought they handled it poorly.

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Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 25 Feb  2024, 02:06(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG8kNi-XkAAlMIr?format=jpg&name=large)

I don't like how they've made Ernie so small here. It's not as bad as the original 1984 poster, where they left him out entirely, but he's one of the classic Ghostbusters and as such he deserves prominence of place at the top. Winston and Janine should be behind Ant-Man instead of Mike from Stranger Things.

Would be nice if Moranis came back. He's doing a new Honey I Shrunk The Kids movie (how many of these does ANYBODY need?), so why not Ghostbusters?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 25 Feb  2024, 17:12I don't like how they've made Ernie so small here. It's not as bad as the original 1984 poster, where they left him out entirely,

I vividly remember that being something of a pattern of behavior with the video games. The Atari (which I never played), the NES, nor the Sega Master video games featured Winston whatsoever. I think the Sega Master video game got a belated online update where Winston is now playable, but yeah, for us Winston Zeddemore fans who grew up playing these games during the '80s/'90s, we were pretty much SOL.

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Not surprised this is getting average reviews.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ghostbusters_frozen_empire

I won't be wasting my time. Sony should just pack up the franchise.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu,  9 Nov  2023, 03:15Looks as average as Afterlife. Lame title, lame special effects and I still can't work out if that kid is a boy or a girl. The franchise ended with Ghostbusters 2, with The Game being a tasteful tribute. This kiddy stuff is a joke. If it didn't have the Ghostbusters branding I doubt people would care all that much.

SPOILER REVIEW!

Just got back from checking out "Ghostbusters Frozen Empire", and before going in, I've read people comparing this to the 80's toon, and can say without a doubt, that comparison is very apt with "Frozen Empire". As there isn't anything egregious going on, such as being dismissive of the first two films, killing off one of the OG Ghostbusters, subverting expectations, or THE MESSAGE being up front and center. Honestly, it plays out as if it was a random episode inspired by the RGB toon. Whether that's a good thing, or bad thing, is up to one's perspective. The first GB was one of those perfect films that incorporated a lot of dry humor to great effect. None of the sequels that have ever been made has replicated that sort of approach with the humor. "Afterlife" had moments of it, but it's a very easy tell in seeing how GB2 and "Frozen Empire" took the route of being much more zany and RGB inspired. As a film, it's fine to just ok for me. This is the first GB movie that wasn't directed by a Reitman, and it shows. I didn't find much of the comedy particularly funny, and felt there were WAY too many characters and subplots, but did enjoy the nostalgia callbacks with characters/locations, and seeing much more of the OG Ghostbusters this time around. Actually, I was kinda surprised just how much Dan Aykroyd was in the movie. Ernie Hudson is also in this a good bit, but not nearly as significant as Dan. If I was a betting man, I would've thought it would be the other way around, but here we are. We do see Bill Murray pop up for a scene about midway, before joining the rest of the OG Ghostbusters and new cast for the final battle. The ghost villain was alright. It's just yet another one of those RGB comparisons that can be made, as this particular ghost comes across as a villain straight outta the '80's toon. Slimer returns as well obviously, whom was noticeably absent from "Afterlife", but surprisingly he's not treated as the mascot/pet as he was depicted from the RGB toon, nor is he the mischievous comedic ally from GB2. Rather, Slimer in "Frozen Empire" is more or less, portrayed as he was in the original 1984 film. As he doesn't really help or buddy up with the Spengler family, the OG's, or Paul Rudd. Somewhat antagonistic, but still humorous. Again, basically as he was in 1984. Which is an interesting route, considering just zany the proceedings are.

Speaking of RGB, I might have to break out my firehouse dvd set, and check out some episodes. I was hoping to have the newly released set of "Extreme Ghostbusters" in my mailbox today, but got informed it wasn't expected to arrive until Sun. "Extreme Ghostbusters" was one of those '90s toons I honestly didn't pay much attention to back in the day, thus I don't have any nostalgia for it, but I'm glad it finally got a official release and I'm interested in eventually getting acquainted with the series soon.

On where I would personally rank "Frozen Empire" among the 4 film GB movie franchise, unfortunately, I would have to place it dead last. It's ok, and not offensive (abiet too bloated honestly), but unlike "Afterlife" which was a very much needed course correction for the franchise, and something of a good palate cleanser following the whole Feig travesty, "Frozen Empire" by comparison just comes across as a episodic GB film. In my mind, it's similar to Ilya Salkind's statements of "Superman III" via his commentary track, which was simply a "episode" of Superman with Chris Reeve, rather than being something of a truly epic story as "Superman: The Movie", or "Superman II" was clearly aiming for.

Since RT was brought up (God I hate giving that site any clicks whatsoever), I see that the great divide between "critics" and the audience score on "Frozen Empire" is again polar opposites. I'm not even that crazy about this particular sequel, but I'm glad that people seem to have enjoyed it more than I evidently did. Course we saw this movie already with the critical reception of "Afterlife", as opposed to Feig's 2016 tripe. Sure, the RT "critic" score would very much like to have me believe that Feig's GB was the very best since the original (LMAO!), and I don't have any illusions there are "critics" that still to this day have a stick up their *ss about "Afterlife" wiping Feig's GBs clean from the slate of ever having a sequel (I'll forever be thankful to GB Afterlife for that!), but once again, this is just the dubious, rather than judicious, nature of RT "critic" score.

So what's the takeaway, kids? Make up your own mind of course.

Score: 6/10 seems just about right to me.

Girlbusters is a dumpster fire however I wish neither continuation existed at this point. A new set of films with the original cast members should have been much better than what we received. I'm with the critics all the way on this score disparity. I wouldn't be surprised if fans wanted to like the new films so bad, almost convincing themselves to. But there's just not enough to get excited about IMO.

While browsing reviews I saw this example of 'the message' Frozen Expire pushes:

QuotePhoebe stumbles into a star-crossed lovers subplot, in which she falls for a ghost girl named Melody (Doctor Sleep's Emily Alyn Lind). Swiftly, Phoebe is established as a queer character in a sapphic flirtation. Following a cliched path of coming-of-age queer stories, Phoebe feels so isolated by her friends and family — though because of ghostbusting, not her sexuality — that she's desperate to get closer to her crush.

Hard pass.

Someone needs to give their gaydar a rest for once. Sounds like the same type of person who would blog about the notion that Bucky Barnes and Steve Rogers are definitely in love with one another. I mean, one of Captain America's main objectives was driven by Bucky in the MCU. By trying to find and save him. Which is telling, right? Obviously they are gay! A platonic relationship that is affectionate, empathetic, but not sexual, simply doesn't and shouldn't exist in todays world. Is this critic associated with slate.com by any chance?

Plus, let's get real. If this movie actually took the step of literally taking the cuties route with no F's given, it's RT. That would have resulted in automatically alleviating the severe cases of red*ss among critics about the 2016 flick getting canned, and the critic score would undoubtedly be much higher, don'tcha think? Why would they hold back? They love that underage stuff. Mainstream audiences? Yeah, not so much, and for good reason. The dichotomy between the scores is more indicative to me that most people are simply not seeing what this critic is apparently seeing as an absolute. Maybe a lot of us watched a edited cut? Nah, probably not.

On the topic that the original Ghostbusters should have been focused upon in a new set of films, that we can agree on. It's one of those situations where you just know there was much more to explore with the original cast, but the years of developmental hell, Bill Murray, and unfortunately, Harold Ramis passing away really took the oomph away from what that could have been like. The fact that Sony willed the 2016 crap into existence really did a lot of damage to the overall brand. Hell, I have a Ghostbusters logo t-shirt, and stopped wearing it because I literally didn't want to give anyone the notion that I was a fan of what was then the 'current' ill-conceived iteration. Also, as I've stated before, I'm thankful for "GB Afterlife", as in no world would I want what we got in 2016 to be the ultimate bookend with "Ghostbusters" in the title. If "Afterlife" succeeded in any way by making the 2016 failure a distant memory for the new generation, sweeping it right into the dust bin of history, in addition to getting the bad taste out of everyone's mouth of which the franchise was left in, then, yes, it ultimately did it's job.

What I am about to write doesn't really have anything to do with "GB Frozen Empire", but I don't think we have a general discussion Ghostbusters thread, so I'll just place it here.

Anyways, finally got the opportunity to check out the "Preview Cut" for GB1, and what an interesting experience this was! It's a very raw cut for sure, with absolutely no music whatsoever, and some scenes being absolutely silent (the montage sequence for example), along with the ghosts being somewhat omitted (although some are occasionally achieved via storyboard-like animation) due to the SFX not being completed (unless it's involving terror dog puppet work and many of the ghost scenes are in black and white, BTW), but what is here is deleted scenes, alternate takes, expanded scenes (even if it's ever so slight), different line deliveries, ect ect.

For someone who pretty much knows GB1 forwards and backwards, this raw "Preview Cut" is definitely something else, and a gem to behold to be perfectly honest. Hopefully this gets added to a future blu ray release outside of the pricey Ultimate 4K Collection set a few years back, cause this really and truly deserves to be seen by more Ghostbusters fans. If purely for the experience of seeing GB1 in such a raw 'workprint' like format with all the neat differentiating scenes and dialogue.