The hyperbolic criticism surrounding these DC films never ceases to amaze. I'm revisiting the sexist accusations towards Justice League's treatment of women, specifically Wonder Woman and the Amazons. I've seen a lot of people complain about the silly sex joke where Flash quickly got up after lying on top of Diana during their first confrontation with Steppenwolf.
So why didn't critics complain when Joss Whedon used the same joke with Bruce Banner and Black Widow in Avengers: Age of Ultron?
(https://pa1.narvii.com/6322/b5c9ab65f19e1bd5fcf91e5680d36a08ae8cd042_hq.gif)
Now yes, I do remember that Whedon got a lot of hate online for how he wrote Black Widow in that movie and he had to leave Twitter for a period of time because of this. But the critics otherwise gave the entire movie a pass. I never saw any outcry from the media either.
I've also noticed critics have complained that JL used "butt" shots whenever Diana appears on screen. Well then I've must've not paid much attention, because I didn't think any scenes were any more gratuitous than a naked Steve Trevor covering up his junk while talking to Diana in the bathtub scene in the WW movie. Same thing goes for the Amazons' costumes look any remotely different to what we saw before.
But I'm curious, were there any scenes that made you think it was totally inappropriate? Are any of these criticisms justified to you?
Diana was one of the better characters in this movie, I haven't found her portrayal as sexist or gratuitous in any of her three film appearances.
With Natasha Romanoff, I think the criticisms on her portrayal may stem from the fact that for a trained SHIELD assassin, she gets flirty fairly easily. Stark, Rogers, Barton, and Banner all have moments of sexual tension with her.
It's another case of seeing one thing, and extrapolating it far beyond such as looking at the closeup shots in Batman and Robin and claiming the movie must have a gay agenda.
Quote from: riddler on Sat, 10 Feb 2018, 15:46
With Natasha Romanoff, I think the criticisms on her portrayal may stem from the fact that for a trained SHIELD assassin, she gets flirty fairly easily. Stark, Rogers, Barton, and Banner all have moments of sexual tension with her.
My issue with that criticism is being flirty doesn't necessarily make the characters demeaning. If that were the case, James Bond should be considered as the biggest whore in fiction.
I remember when AOU came out, fans on Twitter, and many of which I noticed had Tumblr blogs fantacising a romantic relationship between Black Widow and Hawkeye, got upset that Black Widow referred to herself as a monster because she couldn't give birth. This led to Whedon getting accused for being sexist. But I never saw it that way. The film showed us that Natasha was programmed and trained as an assassin from a very young age, and her getting sterilised was part of her initiative, and if memory serves me well, it was to make her obey as a killing machine. Natasha felt her own humanity was being stripped away from her and hence, that's why she felt she had become a monster. Man, Black Widow has a lot of material to explore for a film, and the longer the MCU waits to actually make one, the most likely the opportunity will be lost.
But putting that aside, it was only the fans that complained AOU was sexist. Critics, on the other hand, didn't have that complaint. They certainly never threw AOU under the bus over the humour, as they did for JL.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 10 Feb 2018, 03:05I've also noticed critics have complained that JL used "butt" shots whenever Diana appears on screen. Well then I've must've not paid much attention, because I didn't think any scenes were any more gratuitous than a naked Steve Trevor covering up his junk while talking to Diana in the bathtub scene in the WW movie. Same thing goes for the Amazons' costumes look any remotely different to what we saw before.
It's not about "protecting" women. It's about going after men.
Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough but I didn't see anything worth getting pissy over. If Flash had enjoyed being on top of Diana instead of pulling back quickly, it would be different. I'm just not someone who reaches for an assortment of magic "You can't say/do that, I'm offended!" cards at the drop of a hat. I more tend to just roll my eyes, say "You're an idiot," and go on about my day. May or may not add a middle finger for emphasis. Now if I see something that genuinely does offend me you better believe I will raise all holy hell about it, but people are way too freaking eager to jump on anything that comes along. I guess some of these sheltered idiots should have heard some of the things I have heard in my nearly 32 years, they'd know what sexism and misogyny really is and be more selective about where they aim their outrage.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 17 Mar 2018, 16:43
]It's not about "protecting" women. It's about going after men.
This is hilarious. Talk about going from one extreme to the other.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 17 Mar 2018, 16:43
It's not about "protecting" women. It's about going after men.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/8711b11f9812a0b9f3f63a8fd83a7eaf/tenor.gif?itemid=10283782)
Quote from: Catwoman on Sat, 17 Mar 2018, 17:51
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 17 Mar 2018, 16:43
]It's not about "protecting" women. It's about going after men.
This is hilarious. Talk about going from one extreme to the other.
A lot of these loudmouths are nothing more but virtue signalling pieces of trash who are simply jumping on the bandwagon for attention.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 18 Mar 2018, 02:39
Quote from: Catwoman on Sat, 17 Mar 2018, 17:51
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 17 Mar 2018, 16:43
]It's not about "protecting" women. It's about going after men.
This is hilarious. Talk about going from one extreme to the other.
A lot of these loudmouths are nothing more but virtue signalling pieces of trash who are simply jumping on the bandwagon for attention.
Oh I didn't disagree. I think that applies to most of the flavor of the day crusades. For instance I'm glad the light is being shed on the sexual assault, but the Me Too stuff has taken on another identity with people, like you said, looking for attention or trying to impress others (particularly women they find attractive) which is very pathetic.
I was just saying that saying it's going after men is going from one extreme with the ripping out the sexism card at any or no opportunity to the other extreme. As with most extremes, they're both pretty ridiculous.
Elizabeth Olsen, who plays Scarlet Witch in the MCU, went on record to say she wished the corset she wears didn't have to reveal so much cleavage.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2018/05/01/elizabeth-olsen-avengers-costume-scarlet-witch-infinity-war/567787002/
But is the media going to start a backlash against Avengers: Infinity War over this, just as they did against the supposed "sexist" Amazon costumes in JL? Nah.
Our culture is getting to be where you can't criticize anything without people jumping from 0 to 100. If you don't like a popular movie, you're a non-conformist hipster. If you do like a popular movie, you're jumping on a bandwagon. If you simply try to have a drama-free conversation about film, someone jumps in and it becomes a political war, as if our entire culture hangs on the balance of the sociological applications of movie opinions and how it allegedly shows what's wrong with the world. I'd rather just watch and talk about movies, so I just try to scroll past.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 7 May 2018, 14:22
Elizabeth Olsen, who plays Scarlet Witch in the MCU, went on record to say she wished the corset she wears didn't have to reveal so much cleavage.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2018/05/01/elizabeth-olsen-avengers-costume-scarlet-witch-infinity-war/567787002/
But is the media going to start a backlash against Avengers: Infinity War over this, just as they did against the supposed "sexist" Amazon costumes in JL? Nah.
What was the issue with the costumes? I missed that.
Had a look at her costume and didn't think there was much cleavage there anyway. Could've been much more.
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Tue, 8 May 2018, 22:55
Our culture is getting to be where you can't criticize anything without people jumping from 0 to 100. If you don't like a popular movie, you're a non-conformist hipster. If you do like a popular movie, you're jumping on a bandwagon. If you simply try to have a drama-free conversation about film, someone jumps in and it becomes a political war, as if our entire culture hangs on the balance of the sociological applications of movie opinions and how it allegedly shows what's wrong with the world. I'd rather just watch and talk about movies, so I just try to scroll past.
Blame it on the hype culture. The media today is responsible for perpetuating this childish comic book movie feud for over a decade now. First it was over Batman movies, now it's DC vs Marvel. They do this to generate clicks. But the people are even more guilty for buying into this rubbish, and they bully each other by essentially becoming brand whores. Morons.
Quote from: Catwoman on Tue, 8 May 2018, 23:03
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 7 May 2018, 14:22
Elizabeth Olsen, who plays Scarlet Witch in the MCU, went on record to say she wished the corset she wears didn't have to reveal so much cleavage.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2018/05/01/elizabeth-olsen-avengers-costume-scarlet-witch-infinity-war/567787002/
But is the media going to start a backlash against Avengers: Infinity War over this, just as they did against the supposed "sexist" Amazon costumes in JL? Nah.
What was the issue with the costumes? I missed that.
When JL was released back in November there was outcry from wankers on Twitter complaining that Wonder Woman and the rest of the Amazons were objectified. There had been several bloggers who despise Zack Snyder, both from a creative and personal level, making tweets claiming the Amazon costumes were too skimpy compared to Patty Jenkins' movie.
For anybody with a fresh pair of eyes and a functioning brain, that's a load of bullsh*t. There were hardly any changes to any of the costumes between the two movies, there even actresses who played Amazon warriors gave positive feedback about the costumes they worn, one even expressed she 'empowered' by wearing it: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bbip_CMno49/?hl=en
But it didn't stop certain critics from using this to condemn the movie. Even Jessica Chastain took the opportunity to retweet a blog about this non issue, in a moment of virtue signalling.
But here comes Elizabeth Olsen, an actress in another popular film openly admitting to feeling very uncomfortable about wearing a costume exposing a bit of cleavage...where is the fuss over this? As I said before, the media just loves to foster this comic book movie hostility bullsh*t between the fans who are idiotic enough to fall for it.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 9 May 2018, 12:47
[
When JL was released back in November there was outcry from wankers on Twitter complaining that Wonder Woman and the rest of the Amazons were objectified. There had been several bloggers who despise Zack Snyder, both from a creative and personal level, making tweets claiming the Amazon costumes were too skimpy compared to Patty Jenkins' movie.
For anybody with a fresh pair of eyes and a functioning brain, that's a load of bullsh*t. There were hardly any changes to any of the costumes between the two movies, there even actresses who played Amazon warriors gave positive feedback about the costumes they worn, one even expressed she 'empowered' by wearing it: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bbip_CMno49/?hl=en
But it didn't stop certain critics from using this to condemn the movie. Even Jessica Chastain took the opportunity to retweet a blog about this non issue, in a moment of virtue signalling.
But here comes Elizabeth Olsen, an actress in another popular film openly admitting to feeling very uncomfortable about wearing a costume exposing a bit of cleavage...where is the fuss over this? As I said before, the media just loves to foster this comic book movie hostility bullsh*t between the fans who are idiotic enough to fall for it.
Oh how ridiculous.
The whole world needs to step back and have a nice cup of "Shut the f*** Up."
Neither Wonder Woman nor Justice League sexualized the Amazons. Sure, there's leg, but it's never "Hey, look how sexy these legs are." Meanwhile, there's Michael Bay going, "Hehe, look at the girl's butt."
I'm struggling with this entire concept. It's tough to think of anything that anybody can wear that won't turn somebody on. I might not find certain things sexy but I'm not naive enough to think that somebody out there doesn't think it's the hottest thing ever. How can a movie possibly be made where a female character's wardrobe doesn't send somebody in the audience into orbit with, ahem, passion.
If Olsen wasn't comfortable with her attire in the movie, too bad for her. Hopefully next time the costume designer will be a bit more sensitive to what she wants.
I can argue there is a big difference between something being sexy/someone finding something sexy and objectification/sexism.
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Thu, 10 May 2018, 01:41
I can argue there is a big difference between something being sexy/someone finding something sexy and objectification/sexism.
Be my guest.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 10 May 2018, 02:17
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Thu, 10 May 2018, 01:41
I can argue there is a big difference between something being sexy/someone finding something sexy and objectification/sexism.
Be my guest.
It all comes down to intentions. Wonder Woman's role in her films hasn't been to arouse the audience sexually. She has a pro-active role that is important to the story. If you cut her out, the story loses a lot. In comparison, they are countless slasher films where the sole purpose of women in the films is to get nude and have a minute affect on the story. If you cut those sort of characters out, you lose absolutely nothing.
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Thu, 10 May 2018, 10:52
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 10 May 2018, 02:17
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Thu, 10 May 2018, 01:41
I can argue there is a big difference between something being sexy/someone finding something sexy and objectification/sexism.
Be my guest.
It all comes down to intentions. Wonder Woman's role in her films hasn't been to arouse the audience sexually. She has a pro-active role that is important to the story. If you cut her out, the story loses a lot. In comparison, they are countless slasher films where the sole purpose of women in the films is to get nude and have a minute affect on the story. If you cut those sort of characters out, you lose absolutely nothing.
And yet people still think Gal Gadot is smoking hot in her Wonder Woman outfit.
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Thu, 10 May 2018, 10:52
Wonder Woman's role in her films hasn't been to arouse the audience sexually.
WW is a character of beauty and that shouldn't be something to be downplayed or be ashamed of.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 10 May 2018, 22:49
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Thu, 10 May 2018, 10:52
Wonder Woman's role in her films hasn't been to arouse the audience sexually.
WW is a character of beauty and that shouldn't be something to be downplayed or be ashamed of.
I didn't argue otherwise.
Okay.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2F2e1hg7l.gif&hash=ca273ead5c3c57098fe976811759c22840a7a7ba)
Quote from: Catwoman on Wed, 9 May 2018, 18:08
Oh how ridiculous.
The whole world needs to step back and have a nice cup of "Shut the f*** Up."
Exactly.
I don't call myself a big Snyder fan, and there have been some films I didn't enjoy in the past, like 300. But this negativity from the press against him is absolutely slanderous. If anything, an argument can be made that Snyder objectifies men just as much as women, perhaps even more so. Look at the costumes the male Spartan warriors wore in 300, the gratuitous nudity of Doctor Manhattan and Nite-Owl in Watchmen - even BvS Ultimate Edition showed Bruce Wayne naked while having a shower. Now yes, the Watchmen and 300 examples did occur in the comics, but Snyder didn't back down from adapting those details on screen. At best, all the detractors might complain about is Silk Spectre having a more skimpy costume in the film version.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 12 May 2018, 00:03
Okay.
I apologize. People seemed to be under the impression that I was saying it was wrong to find Wonder Woman sexy, which wasn't my argument at all. If that's what people got, that's not at all what I meant.
I think the very idea that any rational human being can go into a comic book movie and find contempt for the human body as an exploitative tool for the superhero experience is getting to the party a little late with little to no understanding of context. Those critics must live under a rock. I guess they find the cable series "Naked and Afraid" a more noble pursuit? I'm to the point of believing the "PC culture" is a result of ignorance born from the inability of some to understand concepts on a broad level.
Quote from: Wayne49 on Thu, 16 Aug 2018, 13:36
I think the very idea that any rational human being can go into a comic book movie and find contempt for the human body as an exploitative tool for the superhero experience is getting to the party a little late with little to no understanding of context. Those critics must live under a rock. I guess they find the cable series "Naked and Afraid" a more noble pursuit? I'm to the point of believing the "PC culture" is a result of ignorance born from the inability of some to understand concepts on a broad level.
I view it as the result of policy decisions made intentionally by our masters.
The loudmouths like Gail Simone are mostly just useful idiots.
Quote from: Wayne49 on Thu, 16 Aug 2018, 13:36
I think the very idea that any rational human being can go into a comic book movie and find contempt for the human body as an exploitative tool for the superhero experience is getting to the party a little late with little to no understanding of context. Those critics must live under a rock. I guess they find the cable series "Naked and Afraid" a more noble pursuit? I'm to the point of believing the "PC culture" is a result of ignorance born from the inability of some to understand concepts on a broad level.
Political correctness has indeed gone mad, but we shouldn't underestimate the other agendas at hand here. If there's anything the media has taught me over the years - last year more so - is people will do anything to slander a person or a brand for the sake of clicks.
For example, that pile of garbage website AV Club ran a headline claiming Snyder's live action adaptation of 300 was foreshadowing the rise of the alt-right. I don't like 300, but even I can see how that claim is ridiculous and baseless. Another example is a hack journalist for the Wall Street Journal who wrote an article painting a bad light on the whole fan movement supporting the release of Snyder's real vision of JL. This lead to Jay Oliva, who did storyboard work for the film, calling out the "journalist" for conveniently leaving out information he shared with him, which didn't support the article's agenda.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 19 Aug 2018, 00:46
Quote from: Wayne49 on Thu, 16 Aug 2018, 13:36
I think the very idea that any rational human being can go into a comic book movie and find contempt for the human body as an exploitative tool for the superhero experience is getting to the party a little late with little to no understanding of context. Those critics must live under a rock. I guess they find the cable series "Naked and Afraid" a more noble pursuit? I'm to the point of believing the "PC culture" is a result of ignorance born from the inability of some to understand concepts on a broad level.
Political correctness has indeed gone mad, but we shouldn't underestimate the other agendas at hand here. If there's anything the media has taught me over the years - last year more so - is people will do anything to slander a person or a brand for the sake of clicks.
For example, that pile of garbage website AV Club ran a headline claiming Snyder's live action adaptation of 300 was foreshadowing the rise of the alt-right. I don't like 300, but even I can see how that claim is ridiculous and baseless. Another example is a hack journalist for the Wall Street Journal who wrote an article painting a bad light on the whole fan movement supporting the release of Snyder's real vision of JL. This lead to Jay Oliva, who did storyboard work for the film, calling out the "journalist" for conveniently leaving out information he shared with him, which didn't support the article's agenda.
Oh without question. Hollywood is one of many high profile industries being used as a platform to push hidden agendas and make people quake with fear. Sadly what is missing in these industries and in many segments of society is strong leadership to stand up to these public shame campaigns that are little more than shakedowns. People need to quit fearing criticism because that fear is allowing those who complain to make decisions for all of us. In this instance, these are movies and if people can not watch these films without feeling compelled to be "offended", then they need to stay in bed. There's allot worse out there to bother them.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 19 Aug 2018, 00:46
For example, that pile of garbage website AV Club ran a headline claiming Snyder's live action adaptation of 300 was foreshadowing the rise of the alt-right. I don't like 300, but even I can see how that claim is ridiculous and baseless.
That's a stretch. I'm personally not a fan of the film either. For me, the experience is like walking pro-wrestling, but I'd hardly link it to the Alt-Right movement. It's just a macho action movie.
The major reason I don't like it is I really don't like Gerard Butler.
QuoteAnother example is a hack journalist for the Wall Street Journal who wrote an article painting a bad light on the whole fan movement supporting the release of Snyder's real vision of JL. This lead to Jay Oliva, who did storyboard work for the film, calling out the "journalist" for conveniently leaving out information he shared with him, which didn't support the article's agenda.
It's funny how Oliva, an insider who worked on the film, has to argue with outsiders who didn't, but think they know more about the film. Besides, anyone who argues there was never a Snyder cut doesn't know anything about filmmaking. Of course there was a Snyder cut.
There's a good chance there were multiple cuts of the film that were assembled with his input. Movies aren't just edited one time and sent down the line. They would be very rough, with animatics, blue screen, a temp score, footage that hasn't been color corrected, rough audio, unsharpened pacing, and missing plenty of inserts. It probably wouldn't represent the final film that might've happened had he been allowed to fully shape it. It also wouldn't necessarily be the film he originally envisioned prior to BVS' release and its subsequent shouty, irrational "I didn't like a movie! The end is nigh! How dare they make the dark Superman movie I asked for when Superman Returns came out!" criticism.
Quote from: Wayne49 on Wed, 22 Aug 2018, 23:26
Oh without question. Hollywood is one of many high profile industries being used as a platform to push hidden agendas and make people quake with fear. Sadly what is missing in these industries and in many segments of society is strong leadership to stand up to these public shame campaigns that are little more than shakedowns. People need to quit fearing criticism because that fear is allowing those who complain to make decisions for all of us. In this instance, these are movies and if people can not watch these films without feeling compelled to be "offended", then they need to stay in bed. There's allot worse out there to bother them.
Agreed. As a matter of fact, I think we are starting to see Hollywood's public shame campaigns coming back to haunt them. Jessica Chastain, who I said earlier that she retweeted a blog complaining about the Amazon costumes in JL as well as championing more film roles for women, came under heavy criticism herself because she decided to star in a film that was meant to be directed by Matthew Newton, who is notorious in Australia for assaulting his girlfriends. People are seeing through the charade and calling out the double standards by those involved in the media and entertainment.
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 17:32
It's funny how Oliva, an insider who worked on the film, has to argue with outsiders who didn't, but think they know more about the film. Besides, anyone who argues there was never a Snyder cut doesn't know anything about filmmaking. Of course there was a Snyder cut.
I've seen some people on Twitter having the nerve to insult and argue with Oliva even after he has been making these revelations about the film. It's disgusting.
But what do you expect from these degenerates? I bet you any money that they'll use scenes where Bruce Wayne drinks some bourbon in BvS and JL to make tasteless jokes about Affleck's alcohol problems in real life. To me, they're just as despicable as those joking about Heath Ledger's method acting being responsible for his death when he played TDK's Joker. And yes, I'm sad to say, I've seen that too.
Apparently, BOF's Jett made claims about Affleck's Batman script on Twitter, saying it didn't have a story and that Affleck didn't have the passion for it. Oliva replied back, saying he read it, and that it was the best Batman script he ever read.
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Fri, 7 Sep 2018, 04:21
Apparently, BOF's Jett made claims about Affleck's Batman script on Twitter, saying it didn't have a story and that Affleck didn't have the passion for it. Oliva replied back, saying he read it, and that it was the best Batman script he ever read.
The only time when it was ever okay to trust whatever Jett posted was back in the Nolan days when Nolan's wife was sending him approved "leaks". Otherwise, his "sources" are pretty questionable. A grain of salt goes a long way with whatever he says these days.
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 17:32
It's funny how Oliva, an insider who worked on the film, has to argue with outsiders who didn't, but think they know more about the film. Besides, anyone who argues there was never a Snyder cut doesn't know anything about filmmaking. Of course there was a Snyder cut.
There's a good chance there were multiple cuts of the film that were assembled with his input. Movies aren't just edited one time and sent down the line. They would be very rough, with animatics, blue screen, a temp score, footage that hasn't been color corrected, rough audio, unsharpened pacing, and missing plenty of inserts. It probably wouldn't represent the final film that might've happened had he been allowed to fully shape it. It also wouldn't necessarily be the film he originally envisioned prior to BVS' release and its subsequent shouty, irrational "I didn't like a movie! The end is nigh! How dare they make the dark Superman movie I asked for when Superman Returns came out!" criticism.
I'm revisiting this again, because although the comment wasn't raised at Jay Oliva specifically, loudmouth movie blogger John Campea told off the official #ReleaseTheSnyderCut Twitter page and told them the cut didn't exist, despite clues, evidence and testimony by those involved in the production and the director himself.
Quote from: John Cretino
No, it doesn't exist. Snyder was talking ON STAGE and confirmed he was talking about an assembly cut. Every movie has different stages of assembly cuts. They are NOT completed versions of the films. Get over it.
https://twitter.com/johncampea/status/1137507656082452480
Apparently, Campea blocked the RTSnyderCut page too.
Ma che pezzo di merda.
Oliva replied and got straight to the point. Very calm and swiftly. (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/batmanonlinecom_default/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Quote from: Jay Oliva
Jesus I'm not even gonna get into this. John please do us all a favor and give it a rest. Seriously you are embarrassing yourself.
https://twitter.com/jayoliva1/status/1137553440937193478
There's a sense in which the basement-dwelling blogger is probably correct. He seems to want to define "Snyder cut" as "locked picture, completed effects, finish Junkie XL score". If that's one's standard for whether a Snyder cut exists or not then no, one probably doesn't exist.
However, my understanding is that a locked picture does exist with something like 85% completed effects. Finishing those effects obviously would only require another 15%. Honestly, the Junkie score would probably be the most expensive part of the process at this point. A "complete" cut doesn't exist, as such. But it wouldn't take a whole lot to create a complete cut.
Put it this way, a completed Snyder cut of JL is apparently a hell of a lot more realistic to make now (or in the future) than a completed Donner cut of Superman II ever would've been after about 1985 or so.
Despite being proven otherwise, that cretino Campea had apparently doubled down on his stance on his little YouTube channel. Whatever, he can say and believe whatever he wants. Lots of people don't think he has much credibility nowadays, his praise for The Last Jedi made him unpopular, and he gets accused of being a shill ever since.
Meanwhile, there has been this screenshot going around on social media that Ava DuVernay, the director who was hired for the proposed New Gods movie, had liked somebody's tweet criticising the Amazon costumes.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D9dD_3_XsAAx9-Q?format=jpg&name=large)
I don't know much about Ava DuVernay other than she's a bit of a media darling in the SJW community, and her movie - A Wrinkle in Time - was a box office failure despite it being a Disney movie.
Regardless, it only goes to show once again how hypocritical and out of touch these loudmouths are. I bet if a man directed the WW movie, this close-up shot of Diana's legs climbing up the trenches at the beginning of the No Man's Land scene would've faced backlash.
(https://i.imgur.com/TurB4E0.gif)
But because it's directed by Patty Jenkins, I guess it's okay! ::)
We live in an age where women make six-figure incomes on Instagram. I don't think women have much of a right to complain about "the male gaze".
Luckily, most women don't. Only unattractive ones do. The only issues female journalists write passionately about are topics where they themselves will be considered hotter once their novel social engineering ideas take root. Melissa Silverstein doesn't mind women being fetishized. Rather, she doesn't meet today's beauty standards so she resents not being fetishized.
In other words, Melissa Silverstein is only made because she thinks the wrong women are being fetishized.
It's amazing to think how ZSJL was lauded over how the Amazons were portrayed, in contrast to how Josstice L depicted them.
Whoever thought that emphasising on the bravery of Hippolyta and co during Steppenwolf's attack on Themyscira would've won over the vast majority of critics?
"Daughters of Themyscira...show him your fear!"
"WE HAVE NO FEAR!"
And it is a great line, probably my favourite of the whole film. The whole scene of Hippolyta protecting the Mother Box is made better with the stronger Amazons smashing the pillars and sacrificing their own lives in a desperate bid to trap Steppenwolf inside the collapsing dome. For once, Snyder's detractors praised the strength of the female characters, instead of trying to make a cheap political point over their costumes.
Compare that to Whedon's version of the Themyscira scene, Hippolyta seems to be afraid of Steppenwolf, as he goes on about "Fear" and "You will all love me" and such nonsense. I would've said the scene was sabotaged to make Snyder look bad, if I didn't know about Whedon was probably projecting his own issues on women. But of course, I have no doubt that both things were on the agenda in Josstice L.
Samantha Win, who played one the Amazons that died while guarding the Mother Box from Steppenwolf, outlines the differences between ZSJL and Josstice L.
Quote
In 2021, Snyder's four-hour vision of the film was finally released on HBO Max to acclaim from both critics and audiences for its stark differences.
If you watch the two cuts side-by-side, one of the biggest changes is how the 2021 film, often referred to as the "Snyder Cut," portrays its female characters on screen. The 2017 Joss Whedon version contains more than a dozen cringeworthy moments directed at Wonder Woman, Lois Lane, the Amazons, and more you can see here.
All of these moments are removed from the "Snyder Cut," instead highlighting women's strength in each scene.
In May, while speaking with Samantha Win about her role in Snyder's "Army of the Dead," Insider asked the actress about the differences in the two films. Win plays one of the Amazon warriors, Euboea, seen briefly early on in the films. She dies heroically while serving Queen Hippolyta to protect one of three Motherboxes from the film's villain, Steppenwolf.
"When I watched the 2017 version, it almost made me think, 'Oh, that's just the performance I gave and that's just what the story was,' because they had used much of what I had filmed, but it just looked different than I thought it was going to," Win said of watching the theatrical release. "The connection wasn't as strong. I just wasn't feeling it as much."
In the theatrical cut, a large focus was on Steppenwolf sexualizing the Amazons while trying to acquire the box. Instead of looking like powerful warriors, they were easily knocked around and looked like they were desperately on the run from a monster who was excited by the thrill of the chase.
Win didn't return for any reshoots of the film when Whedon took over the film. So when she learned "Zack Snyder's Justice League" would debut on HBO Max, she initially thought her scenes would look "somewhat similar."
That wasn't the case.
"It was very surprising to me how different it felt just edited and put together by someone else," Win said.
Snyder's cut put the focus back on the Amazons instead of on Steppenwolf, who comes off as a predatory creep in the theatrical release. Now, instead of them fearing him, it looks if he's at the mercy of these god-like warriors.
"Zack Snyder's Justice League" also restored a few moments with Euboea where we now see her saved by Hippolyta and wrangling up horses for the two to escape before her untimely demise. The scenes give her death more weight so when you see her slip away, there's more of an emotional attachment to the character's sacrifice.
When Steppenwolf escapes, the 2021 film has an extra beat to pay tribute to the fallen warrior.
"In Zack's version, I did feel the connection with the queen more. I felt like it meant more," Win said. "There was more significance put on my character, Euboea, as representing all of the Amazonians. It felt so much more significant and symbolic for all of the women on the island, instead of it just being kind of a random death."
"It meant something in 'Zack Snyder's Justice League,'" Win continued, adding, "I didn't know that it could be like that. So it was a very pleasant surprise. I just had no idea until I watched it and I felt a lot better about myself and my performance, but also it was a night and day difference in how I felt about women in the movie and the emotional journey of the characters. It just reinforced the idea that the director and the eyes putting it together is so important."
Snyder's version of the film also cut out a line where, after acquiring the Motherbox, Steppenwolf declares that all of the Amazons will love him.
Win said she didn't catch that difference while watching, but acknowledged how the line delivered "a change in tone."
"You will love me," Win said, repeating Steppenwolf's dialogue. "I think we've all, as women, met men like that, and it's a huge red flag. To put that into a character and have that in a movie that children and young people are seeing all over the world is not the greatest."
https://www.insider.com/zack-snyders-justice-league-samantha-win-amazon-scene-2021-11
This is one of the many reasons why I'll never take anybody seriously if they reckon Josstice L is better. Get the f*** outta here!
It makes me laugh when people accuse Snyder of being a creep while Whedon is the feminist. Say what you will about Snyder, but shows off female characters being brave fighters, even to the very end. Whedon, on the other hand, is far gratuitous when it comes to objectifying women. The falling down the chest joke was something that started in the original Buffy The Vampire Slayer back in 1992, and he recycled it ever since.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 21 Nov 2021, 08:12It makes me laugh when people accuse Snyder of being a creep while Whedon is the feminist.
Nobody says that anymore. Whedon's star has faded and it's not coming back. And I mean, Whedon's brand was always
stronk wamen. So, when the brand gets broken, it's permanent. There's no coming back from that.
Whedon's halo is gone, never to return.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 21 Nov 2021, 18:57
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 21 Nov 2021, 08:12It makes me laugh when people accuse Snyder of being a creep while Whedon is the feminist.
Nobody says that anymore. Whedon's star has faded and it's not coming back. And I mean, Whedon's brand was always stronk wamen. So, when the brand gets broken, it's permanent. There's no coming back from that.
Whedon's halo is gone, never to return.
Whedon's reputation might be tarnished, but I still see some jackasses accusing Snyder of sexism online. Sure, those groups of people may seem to be shrinking in numbers nowadays. But they're still out there.
Besides, Hollyweird is such a cesspool that it wouldn't surprise me if he gets another job some time in the future. He might not get the chance to work blockbusters ever again, but I wouldn't be surprised if he goes back to TV. I have no faith in that industry.
Anyway, you can really tell Samantha Win is very loyal and affectionate towards both Zack and Deborah Snyder. Fun fact: Win is a regular in Snyder's filmography. Before playing Euboea in JL, she played one of Zod's minions in MOS, she starred in a short film called Snow Steam Iron, and appeared in Army of the Dead, which she had a memorable scene fighting zombies to the death.
But yeah, according to some detractors, Snyder is problematic. Sure.
I found this disgusting tweet by Anissa Dorsey - who is apparently Geoff Johns' ex-wife - reacting to a headline of Ben Affleck describing the Josstice League reshoots as the worst moment of his career in his LA Times interview.
Quote
Thanks Joss Whedon for showing how Zach's "vision" sucked at 2 hours and not 4. U saved the DCEU from itself. Batman with gun wet dreams, Superman as a murderer and Wonder Woman crying over Steve for 40 years... Face with rolling eyes It's over, get over it. NEXT? @latimes
https://twitter.com/AnissaDorsey777/status/1479613493905141762
What a pathetic, vile creature. Never mind the hypocritical complaints (her ex husband wrote a Wonder Woman sequel where Diana wished Steve back to life in another man's body and had sex with that man's possessed body later on), the fact she overlooked all the ugly things surrounding the production of JL to praise that degenerate Whedon only to spite Snyder goes to show what a horrible scumbag she is.
What do you expect from someone who enables her ex, though?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIqIDhRXEAMzV-3?format=jpg)
Right, so because she happens to be black, her husband couldn't have been guilty of the sh*t that Ray Fisher accused her, yeah? After her depraved tweets, I take her even less seriously.
Trash.