I remember listening to a podcast reviewing the film, where one commentator thought that Burton was attempting satire when Penguin would campaign to become Mayor of Gotham City. He assumed it was because of how easily duped the public can be by a feel-good story about a outcast from the sewers who had a "big heart" as reported on live TV and newspapers, and how Schreck could use his influence to manipulate the public and Cobblepot for his own self-interest.
I never thought about it in that context. I understood Schreck used Penguin to try to get his power plant plans together after Bruce turned it down, but I didn't look at the entire sub-plot at how businesspeople could use mass media to control people's perception of a particular subject.
Thoughts?
My first thought is I would vote for Oswald over the idiots running in this year's US presidential election, because he has as much business in the White House as either of them.
My second thought is that I'm sure there are quite a few Max Shrecks in the business wold. Probably more than we'd like to think, and I'm sure a lot of the same tactics are used (anyone bought a window lately, coincidentally of course at the same time they post a help wanted ad for a secretorial position...?). I'm sure the fake smiles and feel good stories aren't something that's "just in the movies." I want to believe them and not be a cynical bitch. Alas....
As for the media, the way I've seen those slimeballs handle stories that I have some knowledge on has taught me you can't trust those motherf***ers for anything except what date it is (and even then I'm going to refer back to my calendar). It's all agenda and sensationalism. Pretty much anything that becomes a headline anymore, I'm skeptical as hell. And yet I see people lap that bullsh*t up like a dog at a water bowl on a hot day. So I don't doubt for a second that Max/Oswald scenarios do and have played out in real life. It's depressing, so I go into like shutdown mode and avoid it which is bad but trusting everything that we are told is worse.
My fourth thought is I'm sleep deprived and pissed off about it so I may have missed the point of this altogether. Oops.
This whole election has been utterly depressing.
Two terrible candidates and absolutely zero focus on policies and issues. Just tittle-tattle and personal sleaze (and to be fair, that's as much the fault of the candidates for carrying such baggage, as it is with the media).
Quote from: Catwoman on Sun, 16 Oct 2016, 12:50
My first thought is I would vote for Oswald over the idiots running in this year's US presidential election, because he has as much business in the White House as either of them.
Do you REALLY want to go there? Because I will go nuclear if pushed.
Nobody's pushing anything, but if you want to get a little man complex and have a bitchfit over what I said you're in the right corner.
Take it easy everyone. This thread is supposed to be discussing about the Penguin running for Mayor used for a personal agenda, not the current US election. :-\
Quote
As for the media, the way I've seen those slimeballs handle stories that I have some knowledge on has taught me you can't trust those motherf***ers for anything except what date it is (and even then I'm going to refer back to my calendar). It's all agenda and sensationalism. Pretty much anything that becomes a headline anymore, I'm skeptical as hell. And yet I see people lap that bullsh*t up like a dog at a water bowl on a hot day. So I don't doubt for a second that Max/Oswald scenarios do and have played out in real life. It's depressing, so I go into like shutdown mode and avoid it which is bad but trusting everything that we are told is worse.
Given how gullible the public were about Cobblepot and Schreck, it does seem as if Burton was mocking the masses. It wasn't the only time either; in B89, the greedy public were eager to show up for Joker's parade despite knowing he's a mass murdering psychopath.
I've always leaned toward the satire interpretation myself. In a post-Carter world where a former movie star gets elected President in 1980 and reelected in 1984, it stands to reason someone like Burton would be a tiny bit weirded out by that.
I'm not taking political sides there; just venturing a guess.
Anyway, so I think he'd twist that concept for his own purposes, homage the TV show in the process and use the exercise as an opportunity to scrutinize the gullibility of the masses. Any chain is only as strong as its weakest link. And any mob of people is only as smart as its dumbest member. So in large masses of people, the stupidest run the show... ergo nearly electing a hideous freak like the Penguin to be the mayor.
Penguin was just a puppet to Max - but nonetheless he was a bad man who gave into his anger and resentment. He was given a friendly media image but it was all completely fake, with spin and coverup often utilised. He's sending his goons to cause mayhem in Gotham, just as a certain political party in the US hired goons to violently interfere in opponent's rallies to create a false narrative. The media fawned over the Penguin too with clear bias, which is still a problem today. And when the lid was finally lifted on the whole sham, the public learnt the freak should have been in prison instead of running for office.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 19 Oct 2016, 13:01Penguin was just a puppet to Max - but nonetheless he was a bad man who gave into his anger and resentment. He was given a friendly media image but it was all completely fake, with spin and coverup often utilised. He's sending his goons to cause mayhem in Gotham, just as a certain political party in the US hired goons to violently interfere in opponent's rallies to create a false narrative. The media fawned over the Penguin too with clear bias, which is still a problem today. And when the lid was finally lifted on the whole sham, the public learnt the freak should have been in prison instead of running for office.
Agreed. The Penguin groped a college girl in full view of the local media and nobody batted an eyelash over it. Even the college girl seemed to pretty much roll with it.
In light of current events in 1992 and in subsequent election years, it's frightening how much that rings true... not naming names but I'm sure you can think of a "public servant" or two who have done this sort of thing with all but professed complicity from news media.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 00:28
Agreed. The Penguin groped a college girl in full view of the local media and nobody batted an eyelash over it. Even the college girl seemed to pretty much roll with it.
In light of current events in 1992 and in subsequent election years, it's frightening how much that rings true... not naming names but I'm sure you can think of a "public servant" or two who have done this sort of thing with all but professed complicity from news media.
And at least one person vying to become public servant this election year...
Nice little attempt to change the direction of things. It didn't work but nice try.
Words are just words. Actions are far worse. Actually doing it over and over. And you know what's even worse? Attacking the victims with such ferocity when you KNOW they are telling the truth. And then years later tweeting every victim of sexual abuse should be heard, belived and supported. What a two faced hypocrit someone like that would be.
That soulless puppet would probably claim to be the woman candidate. Imagine how much of a fraud that candidate would be if they even took big money from countries where women are abused and thought lower than dogs and pigs. Gays thrown off buildings. The whole lot. But hey, lets talk about words.
Basically, business as usual doesn't work and drastic change is needed. Government benefits government and politicians are all about satisfying their donors. Imagine if someone had no ties to anyone. You'd probably see a completely biased media frenzy dredging up fake accusations from years back. And mysteriously emerging to coincide with embarrassing and damaging leaks about what the other *has actually done.*
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 12:40Imagine if someone had no ties to anyone. You'd probably see a completely biased media frenzy dredging up fake accusations from years back. And mysteriously emerging to coincide with embarrassing and damaging leaks about what the other *has actually done.*
Nonsense, that would never happen. You're paranoid.
Or trying to steal an election, not sure which.
In Batman related news, the lovely Swedish model, Vendela who played Nora Fries, Mr Fries' wife in 'Batman & Robin', made the following statement:
QuoteA former supermodel said Donald Trump's 'vulgar' and 'sexist' remarks about the size of women's breasts forced her to switch tables at a White House dinner party.
Sports Illustrated cover model Vendela Kirsebom claims her night at the 1993 Vanity Fair event was ruined because she was sat next to billionaire Mr Trump.
Recalling the 'excruciating' night, Ms Kirsebom, 49, told MailOnline: 'Everything he said was so vulgar. I couldn't listen to his nonsense for an entire night so I asked if I could be moved.
'He talked about big breasts, small breasts, how one was better than the other and the differences between them.
'His main focus was breasts and the sizes of women's bodies. Fat women were not real women in his opinion.'
She added: 'He basically said if you are not attractive and beautiful, then you don't have any purpose as a woman.'
Ms Kirsebom, who speaks six languages, is a mother of two daughters who was married for 11 years to Norwegian politician Olaf Thommessen.
She told MailOnline Trump as president 'would be awful for the entire world'.
Vanity Fair editor-in-chief Graydon Carter, who organised seating for the event, wrote he sat Ms Kirsebom next to Mr Trump because he thought 'she would get a kick out of him'.
He added: 'After 45 minutes she came over to my table, almost in tears, and pleaded with me to move her.
'It seems that Trump had spent his entire time with her assaying the "t***" and legs of the other female guests and asking how they measured up to those of other women.
'"He is," she told me, in words that seemed familiar, "the most vulgar man I have ever met."'
Ms Kirsebom told MailOnline she was close to tears as the Republican presidential candidate, 70, also spent the evening belittling his then-fiancee Marla Maples.
'The night was suppose to be about politics and meeting interesting people, not sitting next to someone who degraded the women he saw,' she said.
'I was really p***** off and mad at the time. The whole experience was really too much.'...
...None of [the accusations] comes as a surprise to Ms Kirsebom who claims 'he has not changed a bit' since their encounter 23 years ago.
She said: 'I met him on numerous occasions after that [White House] dinner since we shared the same press agent. He was always himself and I felt he was a chauvinist most of the time.
'He did not say much about Bill or Hillary Clinton. But I thought that he was a supportive Democrat at the time.
'I really hope he doesn't become president. It's really important Hillary wins. Mr Trump as a president would be awful for the world, not just the US.'
This really upsets me. Vendela is such a beautiful woman and was so gorgeous as Nora in 'Batman & Robin':
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fbatman%2Fimages%2F6%2F6b%2FBatman_%2526_Robin_-_Mr._%2526_Mrs._Fries.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20140927222342&hash=1d9f32799b905eb3177cc5285a964f5fbdcb051f)
It angers me to think that Trump could have upset such a beautiful woman from one of the Batman films. I'm just relieved he didn't do anymore harm to her, as he allegedly did to some of the other women who have made allegations against him. It also upsets me that he was so disrespectful to the lovely Marla Maples, his ex-wife. The exceedingly lovely Cristi Conaway (the Ice Princess) was once described as looking like a more voluptuous Marla Maples, so it sickens me to think that Trump could belittle a woman who looks like that!?!
Imagine, if he thinks so lowly about women who look as stunning as Vendela and Marla, how lowly he must think of every other woman in the world. This is a man who, after all, called a beauty queen 'Miss Piggy'.
This man is NOT fit to run a beauty pageant, let alone the United States. And it worries me to think how many more women he will be able to offend and demean if he was to gain such power. :(
Batman fans
cannot support this man. Even Arnie (Vendela's onscreen husband, 'Mr Freeze') a Republican, has publicly distanced himself from Trump, and this is a man who is taking over Trump's old show, "The Apprentice". And we all know what Clooney, Affleck and Keaton, three of our favourite Batman actors, think of Trump.
https://twitter.com/poejoerod/status/785948683795894272/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/poejoerod/status/785948683795894272/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
Did anyone catch Ral's brilliant Tweet from a few weeks ago?
I'd really recommend his Twitter page to my fellow Batman Online Forum members.
QuoteWho Said It? Cobblepot or Trump?
1. "Just the pussy I've been looking for!"
2. "It's not about power, it's about reaching out to people - touching people - groping people!"
3. "They let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the pussy."
4. "I'd like to fill her void."
5. "I did try to f*** her. She was married. I moved on her very heavily."
:D
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 21 Oct 2016, 00:26
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 12:40Imagine if someone had no ties to anyone. You'd probably see a completely biased media frenzy dredging up fake accusations from years back. And mysteriously emerging to coincide with embarrassing and damaging leaks about what the other *has actually done.*
Nonsense, that would never happen. You're paranoid.
Or trying to steal an election, not sure which.
Edit: colors, my post was probably too hot for this kitchen. I've saved the post though.
Edit 2: Stuff it. I'm actually a US voter and will not be silenced.
I'm getting a good laugh at the holier than thou hypocrites demanding Trump step down, when HRC should be in jail. It boggles the mind that some people would be willing to give away Western civilisation because of comments a private citizen made 11 years ago. But I'm confident that won't be the case.
Celebrities coming out and 'taking a stand' just puts everyone off. They think they are saying the popular things, but they will be proven wrong. They are living on one side of the country, disconnected from reality and the everyday concerns of the everyday man and woman. Just like Crooked!
Wikileaks shows she feels disconnected from the American middle class. The FOUNDATION of democracy is the middle class. Crooked's speeches include cues on when to smile. She's given questions by the media in advance. She said it's important to have a public and private position on policy. The Crooked campaign was in touch with the department of justice in regards to the email litigation. Supporters are bussed in to poorly attended rallies and are given signs to hold. Child actors with Democrat parents ask pre scripted questions. She has a six million dollar budget for online trolls.
She's a totally made-up candidate. There's no "there" there. She's soulless globalist puppet. One who dreams of open borders, a 550% increase in Syrian 'refugees' and higher taxes. No sane American is going to vote for that Trojan Horse madness. And if they do...this country deserves everything that's coming for it. "Oh shut up, silly woman," said the reptile with a grin. "You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in."
Crooked's campaign is all Hollywood magic. Keeping her out of the public eye, then wheeling her out from time to time. She's counting down the clock, while Trump is out there day after day having huge rallies. It's a night and day contrast.
And "I'm with her"? What a lousy call to action. It's all about Crooked and the fact she's a woman. Gee, that's really inspiring. Trump routinely says I'm with YOU, realising he is acting on behalf of the people. Crooked is a career politician, bought and paid for. A hack who has been doing this for 30 years and has no real policy to run on but failure. Crooked has no real campaign purpose other than "don't vote for Trump." She just wants to continue the absolutely awful Obama era policy failures. It's nothing to be excited about. We need a new course.
But Trump said a nasty word and it's absolute outrage. What a bad man. However over 30,000 classified emails go missing AFTER getting sapeoned, phones get hammered and practically everyone's gets immunity during the hearing... and that's fine. It's absolutely pathetic and the leftards need to be laughed out of town. They support a criminal. They think hurt feelings are worse than death and corruption.
At the end of the day, Trump is a change agent. Crooked is an agent of the status quo. There are two camps in this election. Those who have their heads in the sand and proclaim that all is well in the US. And the other side is wide awake, realising the mess around them needs to be cleaned up. If Crooked wins, nothing will change - in fact, things will get worse. Business as usual is far more dangerous. The world is changing and the civilised world needs to wake up and realise this.
The Brits had the guts to follow through with Brexit. We need to vote Trump. The country won't get this chance to recover ever again.
How can any woman or any man who supports feminism support a candidate who brags about grabbing women's crotches because he's 'star'? Who has so many sexual assault charges against him, his tally is now closer to Bill Cosby's than it is to Bill Clinton? Who casually dismisses these allegations by double-downing on the sexism and saying that these women "wouldn't be my first choice"? Who speaks of 'punishing' women who have abortions, appoints a staunchly anti-abortion VP, and openly speaks about appointing conservatives onto the Supreme Court? Who calls women 'pigs' and 'cows', attacks reporters (and Fox reporters at that - not even liberals) for 'bleeding everywhere', female candidates for needing to take bathroom breaks, and Tweets at 3am in the morning to target former beauty queens he called 'Miss Piggy' and 'Miss Housekeeping'? Who leers over underage girls and laughs about dating them in ten years time?
This man is an active threat to women. As President of the United States he is supposed to be setting a role-model. What kind of role-model is this virulent misogynist setting for young boys and young girls? That it's acceptable for boys to speak so disparagingly of the opposite sex, and that in order for a girl to get respect she has to be the perfect weight and keep her head down, unless she wants to be subjected to a torrent of male abuse?
I fear for at least 50% of the US population if this animal is allowed anywhere near the White House. How can anyone who respects women be able to support this man any longer? I don't particularly care for Hillary, but the status-quo, if that is the worst Hillary promises, is far preferable to the dark ages Trump wants to reset the country back to.
I love it when liberals pretend to be moral. Nancy Pelosi can march in a NAMBLA parade but dangit Trump said something about women and this is an outrage!
Liberalism isn't an ideology; it's a mental disorder.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 22 Oct 2016, 20:32
I love it when liberals pretend to be moral. Nancy Pelosi can march in a NAMBLA parade but dangit Trump said something about women and this is an outrage!
Liberalism isn't an ideology; it's a mental disorder.
They sweat the small stuff when the big picture is there screaming at us. I have no respect for them whatsoever. They are an active threat to our democracy by voting for these boneheaded ideas. It's all about hurt feelings for them. Not about policy. Policy is king this election. Love women? Then don't vote for a 550% increase in Syrians. Simple. Europe has gone to hell in a hand basket and women aren't safe whatsoever. We have enough problems already without bringing in more. THAT is a vote for the dark ages.
And yeah, Crooked being more moral than Trump makes me spit out my coffee and laugh. Haiti? Benghazi? The emails? Ha. But for the leftards words are all important. Seriously, no one really cares outside the media pile on. She is a protected species and always get a free pass. These fake accusers will be sued after the election. I'm sure the Dems paid these people to come out and say this rubbish - just as undercover video proves the Dems paid violent protestors to disrupt Trump rallies. People want the economy restored and that damn wall built. Trump will be our fearless champion. Eff the whiners.
You're all out of your f***ing minds. First off, the British f***stick who was bitching about non Brits talking about England leaving the EU needs to keep his ignorant hypocrite mouth shut about our politics.
Then the people defending Trump on the grounds of how awful Hillary is. Are you f***ing serious? So because Clinton is a satan incarnate, Trump's own lesser transgressions in comparison are fine to sweep under the rug? No, don't think so. They're both horrible people and how anyone can vocally support either one of them is just...it makes me sick. Hillary should be in prison and Trump is such a thin skin manchild that giving him the doomsday button would be like signing off on Armageddon. But whatever.
I will say that I am sorry to TLF for starting this, since I guess it's what I said in my insomniac stupor that got this sh*t started. It's my fault, and I'm sorry for f***ing up his thread. Seems like I f*** up most things these days, I guess I'm our very own campaign bimbo.
Quote from: Catwoman on Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 03:39
You're all out of your f***ing minds. First off, the British f***stick who was bitching about non Brits talking about England leaving the EU needs to keep his ignorant hypocrite mouth shut about our politics.
Then the people defending Trump on the grounds of how awful Hillary is. Are you f***ing serious? So because Clinton is a satan incarnate, Trump's own lesser transgressions in comparison are fine to sweep under the rug? No, don't think so. They're both horrible people and how anyone can vocally support either one of them is just...it makes me sick. Hillary should be in prison and Trump is such a thin skin manchild that giving him the doomsday button would be like signing off on Armageddon. But whatever.
I agree with the bold paragraph.
Notice that I haven't said anything one way or the other about Hillary in my previous posts (for what it's worth, I do think people need to vote for her, but that's only to stop Trump - on her own terms, she's a terrible candidate/person). I'm just concerned about men who molest women, and that includes Trump and Bill Clinton (Hillary being a woman, can't molest women, and even if the worst accusations about her somehow threatening Bill's alleged victims were true, Hillary still wouldn't have personally molested any women, unlike her political opponent).
This is not about left or right politics to me. I'm staying out of that one since I promised not to involve myself in that topic on this site. This is about ensuring that the head-of-state is NOT a serial molester of women.
Quote from: Catwoman on Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 03:39
You're all out of your f***ing minds. First off, the British f***stick who was bitching about non Brits talking about England leaving the EU needs to keep his ignorant hypocrite mouth shut about our politics.
These fake accusers are just that.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/list-debunked-groper-allegations-corrupt-media-donald-trump/
They've had all this time to say something, and they wait to come out as soon as WIKILEAKS revs up. How convenient. This is the typical Democrat smear machine. It's dinosaur politics and people see it for what it is. The biased left wing media love all this stuff. Reporting on WIKILEAKS implicates them, given the bias towards Hillary has been proven there. Another Wikileak from earlier in the year actually shows the Democrats were looking to pin fake rapes on Trump. But don't report that, mainstream media. The media don't research anything about these accusations and just report it all as fact, because that's their agenda. So let there be an avalanche of 'accusers'. They'll just be added to Trump's 'to be sued' list. They are all paid hacks and a sham. Trust me, the leftard media freaks out but the public yawns.
The media has about a 7 % trust rating here. Hannity, a big Trump supporter, has the number one rated show and CNN, the Clinton News Network, is on the slide big time.
The Democrats and the media, which are the same thing, want people distracted by NOTHING stories because the real dirt is elsewhere. Trump signs are everywhere and I feel the anger and passion on the streets.
Like or dislike what he said in private. I don't care. But America needs the Trump policies....period. The ignorant SJW's who don't even live here don't understand the issues at all. Open borders and business as usual with the economy is going to just further decay this country. Seriously, I love this place, but if this criminal gets in, we deserve to burn in hell. Obama has been a complete disaster and made this country a weak joke. We have an alternative now, which is the exact opposite of Obama, and it's right there to take. No candidate in history has me as fired as Trump. He's an inspiration and I love him. He never gives up, is tireless, intuitive, inspiring and strong.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 14:35
We have an alternative now, which is the exact opposite of Obama, and it's right there to take.
Obama is intelligent, highly-educated, respects women, offers reasonable and thoughtful policies, has a strong loving marriage with a highly intelligent woman he clearly respects, he uses moderate language, does not mindlessly attack his opponents, respects experts on science, and was not born with a silver spoon to a daddy who 'loaned' him $14 million.
Yep, you're right. He is the exact opposite of Trump. Trump is the embodiment of over-privileged, spoiled, white upper-class men. This is a man who is as crass and misogynist as political candidate Oswald Cobblepot, as manipulative and mendacious as billionaire businessman Max Shreck, and as stupid and spoiled as Max's heir, Chip Shreck. Is that honestly what you want for your President?!?
And if you respect women you have to take seriously the numerous women who have made sexual assault allegations against Trump. How can you have a leader who treats women this way?!?
Quote from: Catwoman on Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 03:39You're all out of your f***ing minds. First off, the British f***stick who was bitching about non Brits talking about England leaving the EU needs to keep his ignorant hypocrite mouth shut about our politics.
It is funny, isn't it? Europeans everywhere feel at perfect liberty to take sides in American politics. But Americans need to "know our place" when it comes to "internal European matters".
Frankly, I don't care if Europeans comment on American politics. They just need to remember that door goes both ways.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 24 Oct 2016, 05:45
Frankly, I don't care if Europeans comment on American politics. They just need to remember that door goes both ways.
Ding Ding Ding.
This thread has gotten out of control, and perhaps it wasn't a good idea to open it in the first place. :(
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 24 Oct 2016, 11:44
This thread has gotten out of control, and perhaps it wasn't a good idea to open it in the first place. :(
No, it was a good idea for a thread.
It's just a shame that it's become so politicised since.
I apologise for my part in that, although in my defence, I was only responding to something that really bothers me in light of certain allegations, and bear in mind that those allegations are nothing to do with politics per se. I'm not a Republican supporter but I can say that Dubya, like Obama, is a dignified and respectable family man, unlike some other Presidents and would-be Presidents on both the left and right of US politics (and for that matter, global politics). Forget policies. I'm talking about the rights and wrongs of how certain men treat women, and as far as I'm concerned, it's unacceptable.
There, I've said my piece.
Anyway, like I said before, there is nothing inherently wrong with your thread Laughing Fish.
Quote from: johnnygobbs on Mon, 24 Oct 2016, 16:55No, it was a good idea for a thread.
It's just a shame that it's become so politicised since.
Poor little victim, did you get triggered?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 25 Oct 2016, 03:52It's just a shame that it's become so politicised since.
Poor little victim, did you get triggered?[/quote]No need to be hostile.
I was being respectful to The Laughing Fish and saying it wasn't his fault that the thread became politicised. I wasn't absolving myself of any blame (although if I am at all to blame, then the blame is surely shared).
I was watching the scene where Schreck introduces Penguin his election campaign with Tim Burton's commentary. Burton described the scene where in contrast to the dark visuals seen in the rest of the movie, he wanted to show how the brightly lit the office was with cheerful young "Republican" volunteers greeting Penguin to give a positive vibe, as aspiring political campaigns often do.
Burton didn't mention anything that hadn't been revealed before: he noted the controversy surrounding Penguin's vulgarity at the time, particularly in this scene where he made a crude remark at a female secretary and biting the yuppie's nose. But I wonder if there was any controversy when Penguin spat out that cigarette holder among comic fans? Did people think this was Burton's way of making fun of the Penguin's trademark features?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 00:28The Penguin groped a college girl in full view of the local media and nobody batted an eyelash over it. Even the college girl seemed to pretty much roll with it.
I reread this thread (bad idea) and came to this post and it got me thinking (also a bad idea).
She seemed like she was getting a little uncomfortable with it, but remember this is the poor abandoned bird man from the sewers. Maybe she thought he was just struggling to get it on and didn't want him to feel worse by squawking (pun totally intended). Or maybe she was starting to get an idea of what was up (and where, namely below Oswald's belt) but like she said, he was her role model (I didn't buy that sh*t for a second but maybe the actress just didn't sell it) so maybe it was one of those rose colored glasses moments.
"Ohhh a button, and he's going to put it on me! HE, Oliver Coconut, is going to put it on ME! THIS IS SO GREAT.....this is great.....this is.....um.....uh....his features are so distinguished.....little to the left buddy....little more....maybe he don't know left from right....ow, that's my nipple.....he knows THAT....ok it's on......no it isn't.....THERE we go. This is great!"
Quote from: Catwoman on Thu, 2 Feb 2017, 10:21
I reread this thread (bad idea) and came to this post and it got me thinking (also a bad idea).
She seemed like she was getting a little uncomfortable with it, but remember this is the poor abandoned bird man from the sewers. Maybe she thought he was just struggling to get it on and didn't want him to feel worse by squawking (pun totally intended). Or maybe she was starting to get an idea of what was up (and where, namely below Oswald's belt) but like she said, he was her role model (I didn't buy that sh*t for a second but maybe the actress just didn't sell it) so maybe it was one of those rose colored glasses moments.
"Ohhh a button, and he's going to put it on me! HE, Oliver Coconut, is going to put it on ME! THIS IS SO GREAT.....this is great.....this is.....um.....uh....his features are so distinguished.....little to the left buddy....little more....maybe he don't know left from right....ow, that's my nipple.....he knows THAT....ok it's on......no it isn't.....THERE we go. This is great!"
It's very easy for me to make parallels between The Penguin and a certain recently elected world leader, but I know that peeves a lot of people off here.
So, I'm going to offer a different perspective on The Penguin's gross behaviour and everyone's (initial) acceptance of it that the more conservative folk on this site might be able to get behind.
The way the 'Volunteer Bimbo' cheerfully accepted The Penguin's blatant sexual assault reminds me a little of the way certain sexual crimes have been effectively excused in parts of Europe, on account of 'cultural differences'. I've read of various instances where rape victims have refused to condemn their attackers on account of them being refugees, and I've also read that a Swedish Chief of Police recently advised young women to take more responsibility for their own susceptibility to sexual attacks, following a few recent sexual assaults allegedly carried out by 'foreign-looking men'.
Although I am generally pro-immigration, particularly with respect of refugees (although I don't want to get into a political argument here), I have noticed a disturbing tendency in some parts of Europe to effectively excuse sexual offences, apparently out of sympathy with the perpetrators. I wonder if this was the same mind-set that allowed the 'Volunteer Bimbo' to let Oswald off-the-hook for his gropey behaviour. She may have been a Republican volunteer, but like a lot of Gotham may also have feel sorry for the orphaned and deformed bird-man on account of his tragic history (hence one of the reasons he was described as 'the coolest role-model a young person could have'), and thus exonerated him on that account.
I can also buy that The Penguin was everyone's 'role-model', because Max, along with the media, had cajoled the public into feeling sorry for this crude freak, and to believe he has heroically 'saved' the mayor's baby. But it probably went against their innate instincts to think anything remotely positive about the 'penguin-man living underneath Gotham's sewers'.
One thing I love about Batman Returns, that's pretty unusual, is that it's pretty independent in its cynical commentary. The Penguin is obviously a bad guy causing the problems he complains about but the establishment/incumbent Mayor, while not evil, really is very ineffectual, you would hope that there could and should be someone better. So the public is made to look foolish for supporting the Penguin but it's also very understandable given the alternative. I'm not even sure if that was intended but it's very interesting for a movie to argue that the insider and the outsider are both bad.
Quote from: Andrew on Mon, 11 Sep 2017, 05:00
One thing I love about Batman Returns, that's pretty unusual, is that it's pretty independent in its cynical commentary. The Penguin is obviously a bad guy causing the problems he complains about but the establishment/incumbent Mayor, while not evil, really is very ineffectual, you would hope that there could and should be someone better. So the public is made to look foolish for supporting the Penguin but it's also very understandable given the alternative. I'm not even sure if that was intended but it's very interesting for a movie to argue that the insider and the outsider are both bad.
Maybe Batman Returns comments on how insidious political narratives are.
As I said before. the public got deceived by a fabricated "feel good" story as set up by the Penguin, who pretends to be a freak from the sewers with a kind heart. In turn, Max Schreck convinces him to go along with the positive public perception by starting a mayoral campaign and continue pretending with this populist agenda, for the purpose of self-interest and eliminating anybody who threatens their credibility i.e. Batman.
This does resonate a lot with what goes on in real life; after all, how many times have we heard of stories where politicians have risen to power with supposed virtuous goals, but are then later exposed as either despot or deviants? I'd wonder what would Gotham City have looked like if Penguin had succeeded? :o
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 30 Sep 2017, 08:48
I'd wonder what would Gotham City have looked like if Penguin had succeeded? :o
Here's some educated guesses from me:
The Red Triangle Circus Gang would've stopped their public criminal behavior.
Contracts would've been given to Max's companies in rigged tendering processes.
Max's power plant would've gone ahead.
Penguin would do something to promote global cooling, possibly teaming up with the Burtonverse's Victor Fries.
Penguin may have helped out orphanages to boost his profile, abandoning his murder plot given he's in a happier place.
A complete rehabilitation of the Gotham Zoo location, with a priority of looking after the City's penguin population.
Political enemies would mysteriously go missing if they began looking into Penguin or Max's operations.
His wardrobe would've become more consistent to his comic book counterpart.
Possibly trying to publicly legitimize the Circus Gang in some fashion, admin roles, etc.
That's all I can think of at the moment.
I think Burton was making a great point that the public enjoys falling for an image often spoken to them rather than what their eyes tell them. It's an interesting contrast to other aspects of life. I once heard Paul Stanley say people listen to music with their eyes. I think there's an enormous amount of truth to that insight (especially with his band). In politics its just the opposite. It also makes me wonder if Burton was using the Penguin's duck-mo-bile as a metaphor to underscore the old saying, "If it walks like a duck, it must be a duck." There's a ton of subtext in that plot-point that went right over people's heads. Some of it rises to the surface and is easily seen. Other parts are a bit more subdued in their application, but they are all there.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 30 Sep 2017, 12:03
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 30 Sep 2017, 08:48
I'd wonder what would Gotham City have looked like if Penguin had succeeded? :o
Here's some educated guesses from me:
The Red Triangle Circus Gang would've stopped their public criminal behavior.
Contracts would've been given to Max's companies in rigged tendering processes.
Max's power plant would've gone ahead.
Penguin would do something to promote global cooling, possibly teaming up with the Burtonverse's Victor Fries.
Penguin may have helped out orphanages to boost his profile, abandoning his murder plot given he's in a happier place.
A complete rehabilitation of the Gotham Zoo location, with a priority of looking after the City's penguin population.
Political enemies would mysteriously go missing if they began looking into Penguin or Max's operations.
His wardrobe would've become more consistent to his comic book counterpart.
Possibly trying to publicly legitimize the Circus Gang in some fashion, admin roles, etc.
That's all I can think of at the moment.
My educated guess:
His first day in office, he signs off on Max's power plant. Max offers him a celebratory drink. Penguin drinks it, feels fine for a few hours, then suddenly falls dead flat on his face. His sewer raising and his unusual physiology are blamed; despite the cold surfacing and "campaign stress" had taxed an already weak heart. A city mourns. Meanwhile, Max stares from his brand new office window at the Gotham skyline with a triumphant smirk. Now no one stands in his way and he's no longer at risk of Penguin's blackmail. As he's on his way out he starts to flip the light off, figures "what the hell," and leaves it on, chuckling to himself. As he steps onto the deserted street, from the rafter above a whip cracks, wrapping around his neck. SNAP. The light of Gotham shines no more.
Quote from: Catwoman on Mon, 9 Oct 2017, 04:31
My educated guess:
His first day in office, he signs off on Max's power plant. Max offers him a celebratory drink. Penguin drinks it, feels fine for a few hours, then suddenly falls dead flat on his face. His sewer raising and his unusual physiology are blamed; despite the cold surfacing and "campaign stress" had taxed an already weak heart. A city mourns. Meanwhile, Max stares from his brand new office window at the Gotham skyline with a triumphant smirk. Now no one stands in his way and he's no longer at risk of Penguin's blackmail. As he's on his way out he starts to flip the light off, figures "what the hell," and leaves it on, chuckling to himself. As he steps onto the deserted street, from the rafter above a whip cracks, wrapping around his neck. SNAP. The light of Gotham shines no more.
Very creative piece of an alternative ending there. I like it! 8)
If Penguin had killed Batman, Gotham City would've been left to rot. I don't think Catwoman would have the drive nor the interest to succeed him as Gotham City's protector. She even more cynical than Batman was.
Nah she would have protected the women. You bastards would have been on your own though.
I can be theatrical, and maybe even a little rough, but one thing I am not...is a CATERPILLAR.