I'm looking back at Rachel Dawes, and her reception as a character.
Even among die hard fans of these films, Rachel Dawes is often criticised as a weak link. Some complain she's a poorly written character, and a typical damsel in distress, as well as complaining about the acting (Katie Holmes more so than Maggie Gyllenhaal).
I remember some negative reaction when it was revealed in The Dark Knight Rises that Bruce became a recluse because of Rachel's death. I saw a lot of comments from people who criticised this decision because Rachel's murder had more of an impact on Bruce Wayne than his own parents. A lot of these people didn't like how Rachel's death was a turning point in Batman's surprisingly short career.
As someone who isn't a fan of these films by any means, I'm surprised that even the trilogy's supporters thought that Rachel's death as motivation why Bruce gave up in TDKR was tacked on. If you think about it, it was alluded to in BB and TDK.
In BB, the murders of his parents did affect Bruce emotionally, but that tragedy never motivated him to become a crimefighter. From Rachel feeling disgusted by Bruce wanting to take revenge over Joe Chill, to feeling the two could never be together because he's Batman, Rachel has always had some influence in how Bruce became Batman. In TDK, his love for Rachel was a motivation for him where he could hang up the cape for good, until she was murdered by the Joker.
I believe that some people thought Rachel dying the second film would enable Batman to focus his mission without any distraction, but instead it made him fall apart even further. Personally, I think these people missed the point. Like it or not, this Bruce Wayne never entertained the idea of fighting crime until a series of circumstances saw him find himself with the League of Shadows, and Rachel played her part in Bruce's decision to leave Gotham for seven years.
Nolan's interpretation of Batman, like other live action versions, never embodied the comics. He took as many liberties as other directors do on film, and like it or not, he created Rachel to be a factor in Bruce's life, and how he became Batman. I might think the relationship between the two characters is underdeveloped and there is a huge lack of chemistry between the actors, but I don't believe her death was used as an improvised plot point for TDKR.
The "damsel in distress" thing gets trotted out any time a male character saves a female character. It doesn't matter what else that female character achieves or believes; she was rescued by a man so everything else gets washed away. It's just retarded.
You could view Rachel as a counter-point to Bruce. We never see her father. He's never mentioned. We know nothing about him. Did she have a father? Well, I venture the answer is no. At least not in the sense of being an active parent in her life.
Clearly though she and her mother had a closer-than-employee relationship with the Wayne family. When Thomas Wayne was murdered, the only thing she had that even resembled a father was taken from her. She didn't feel the loss as much as Bruce, obviously. But she still lost something.
Is that what drove her to become the only honest DA in Gotham City? I think you could buy into that. I have.
Of all people, Rachel was most ideally placed to be Bruce's conscience. She's what Bruce could've been had he made different choices.
Speaking of choices, Bruce and Rachel are both interested in Harvey in TDK. For different reasons, yes, but they're both interested in him. He's the White Knight. Bruce sees Harvey as Batman's replacement. Rachel sees Harvey as Bruce's replacement.
Batman could've partnered with Rachel rather than Dent. Arguably that would've made more sense than trusting a total stranger. But he didn't.
Rachel could've fallen in love with Bruce. Arguably that would've made more sense than a workplace romance. But she didn't.
The knife gets twisted in a bit further when Rachel dies. "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain". She's Bruce's counterpoint. She died (a hero). She didn't live long enough to see Batman become the villain.
People can like or dislike the actresses who played Rachel. I've got gripes with both of them. But the character plays a major part in Bruce's life and the trilogy would've been less effective without her participation.
I can stomach the character, I guess. But I think casting Katie Holmes was a misstep. Maggie did an okay job, and I'd say a better job, but she was hired due to a resemblance to Katie. Recasting hurt the character. It can't be denied. Even though I didn't care much for Katie's version, it would've been a hell of a lot more powerful having her sitting beside the fuel drums and going boom. At the end of the day, I just didn't have the deep connection to the character, sadly. We're told Bruce cares deeply for her, but I didn't.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 24 Sep 2016, 20:28
The "damsel in distress" thing gets trotted out any time a male character saves a female character. It doesn't matter what else that female character achieves or believes; she was rescued by a man so everything else gets washed away. It's just retarded.
A perfect example of this is how unfairly criticised the DCEU version of Lois Lane gets, despite playing much more of a integral role than she is given credit for.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 24 Sep 2016, 20:28
The knife gets twisted in a bit further when Rachel dies. "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain". She's Bruce's counterpoint. She died (a hero). She didn't live long enough to see Batman become the villain.
Yeah, but it also reminds me how that awful ending goes against everything Batman should be...but I'm digressing.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 25 Sep 2016, 04:16
At the end of the day, I just didn't have the deep connection to the character, sadly. We're told Bruce cares deeply for her, but I didn't.
I believe chemistry is very important when it comes to adapting these relationships on screen. If Michael Keaton and Michelle Pfeiffer didn't have this presence together, BR would've been a much poorer film and people would've complained that the relationship was rushed. But we bought it because they played their roles convincingly as two disturbed people who were infatuated with each other.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 25 Sep 2016, 07:06
A perfect example of this is how unfairly criticised the DCEU version of Lois Lane gets, despite playing much more of a integral role than she is given credit for.
You have to understand where these voices are coming from. The other side of the fence are against the DCEU and that's it. They were NEVER on board with the DC shared universe to begin with. So call them out and show them no respect. Double standards are always at play these days, along with holier than thou elitism. I think you're either on the train or you're not. That's basically it for me. I'm all in with the DCEU.
And personally, I was meh about the Marvel films, but now I'm really not giving them any form of respect or time. The Avengers cast are a load of losers. Holier than thou preaching? Get the eff out of my face. They're nothing but out of touch knobs who live on one side of the country, disconnected from reality. Acting as if their opinion means more than anyone else's, and their word should sway the masses. Which rubs the man on the street the wrong way. I tell you now, it revs them up like a swarm of motorcycles.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 27 Sep 2016, 05:51
You have to understand where these voices are coming from. The other side of the fence are against the DCEU and that's it. They were NEVER on board with the DC shared universe to begin with. So call them out and show them no respect. Double standards are always at play these days, along with holier than thou elitism. I think you're either on the train or you're not. That's basically it for me. I'm all in with the DCEU.
I have noticed that there are crappy clickbait websites like WhatCulture and Gawker Media-related stuff who enjoy slamming the DCEU for the last three years now and counting. So yeah, I see your point.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 27 Sep 2016, 05:51
And personally, I was meh about the Marvel films, but now I'm really not giving them any form of respect or time. The Avengers cast are a load of losers. Holier than thou preaching? Get the eff out of my face. They're nothing but out of touch knobs who live on one side of the country, disconnected from reality. Acting as if their opinion means more than anyone else's, and their word should sway the masses. Which rubs the man on the street the wrong way. I tell you now, it revs them up like a swarm of motorcycles.
You'll have to excuse me, but I must have missed something. What did the Avengers cast say?
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 27 Sep 2016, 09:13
I have noticed that there are crappy clickbait websites like WhatCulture and Gawker Media-related stuff who enjoy slamming the DCEU for the last three years now and counting. So yeah, I see your point.
Yep. Apparently there's only one way of doing things, and that's the Marvel way. ::)
As for the Avengers cast and Joss Whedon, no offence, but you'll have to Google it yourself. I can't really go into any more depth here than what I have. As I said before, their stunt turned me right off that company and bunch of actors.
Bruce gave up because his clean energy project failed. He gave up on moving on into a happy life because Rachel died. He was a man without a mission after the clean energy project failure and that mission was all he had left. That was why he became a recluse. Have a very great day!
God bless you all!
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 27 Sep 2016, 09:34
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 27 Sep 2016, 09:13
I have noticed that there are crappy clickbait websites like WhatCulture and Gawker Media-related stuff who enjoy slamming the DCEU for the last three years now and counting. So yeah, I see your point.
Yep. Apparently there's only one way of doing things, and that's the Marvel way. ::)
As for the Avengers cast and Joss Whedon, no offence, but you'll have to Google it yourself. I can't really go into any more depth here than what I have. As I said before, their stunt turned me right off that company and bunch of actors.
I was tempted to quit Game of Thrones for similar reasons. Not supporting anything, and whether one agrees or disagrees with their "causes" is beside the point, I just see these as inserting too much reality in things designed to help one escape from it.
This spoof video against the Avengers cast is perfect.
https://vimeo.com/185223229
That spoof is the funniest thing I've ever seen in the last twenty minutes!
What I enjoy right now is how okay it's become to laugh at a lot of sacred cows in general and Hollywood in particular. Gosh, without those drug addicts who get paid millions of dollars to play dress up and read stuff written by someone else, why, I just might have voted for somebody they don't like, which would've been Double-Plus Non-Good.
Every single one of them knows victims of, are victims of or else are guilty of sexual assault on the casting couch (up to and including pederasty) but by all means, please do lecture me on morality.
The fools...
I loathe the character, lol. Worst character in any Batman film.
She was OK as a Bruce friend and Batman ally working in and believing in the system, despite its flaws, and a symbol of what Bruce had to sacrifice. Then in the sequel her relationship with Dent was OK but then continuing the possibly-getting-with-Bruce, with him eager, to retire so they could get together, made her seem both too prominent and the whole story too much of a love triangle.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 6 Oct 2016, 03:06That spoof is the funniest thing I've ever seen in the last twenty minutes!
What I enjoy right now is how okay it's become to laugh at a lot of sacred cows in general and Hollywood in particular. Gosh, without those drug addicts who get paid millions of dollars to play dress up and read stuff written by someone else, why, I just might have voted for somebody they don't like, which would've been Double-Plus Non-Good.
Every single one of them knows victims of, are victims of or else are guilty of sexual assault on the casting couch (up to and including pederasty) but by all means, please do lecture me on morality.
The fools...
Considering the rampant MeToo'ism in today's news headlines, I'd just like to reassert this for my own posterity (and aggrandizement).