https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AO19XY2rqc
It looks like we'll be getting an extended African sequence as well as Clark investigating Batman in Gotham. Jena Malone's character appears to have a scene with Lois Lane.
BatmAngelus, how do you think this Ultimate Edition could possibly improve upon/rectify the mistakes of Batman v Superman?
Good question. Depends a lot on the leftover footage they had.
More scenes exploring Clark/Superman in the first half would help. Anything that'll actually make us emotionally invest in him.
I'd rather not see more of Eisenberg's Lex but he came out saying that there were a lot of "editorial decisions" made in postproduction that he wasn't aware of when he was performing as Lex so, assuming he was being genuine and not just trying to do damage control, who knows what was missing that would improve his character and performance.
I also wouldn't mind if certain scenes or sequences were cut. I wouldn't miss it if the Knightmare sequence/Flash cameo or the Batmobile chase/"Do you bleed" scenes or the Batwing blowing up Lex's thugs on his way to save Ma Kent were gone, but since this is the "ultimate" extended edition, I doubt they'll leave anything out.
Quote from: BatmAngelus on Thu, 2 Jun 2016, 17:09
I'd rather not see more of Eisenberg's Lex but he came out saying that there were a lot of "editorial decisions" made in postproduction that he wasn't aware of when he was performing as Lex so, assuming he was being genuine and not just trying to do damage control, who knows what was missing that would improve his character and performance.
Eisenberg's performance is what it is. I don't think more footage could necessarily make his performance any worse,
but if we were given more reasons to care about and understand the character, and why he is so motivated to destroy Superman (perhaps he suffered an intensely abusive childhood), it might potentially improve this version of Luthor, evoking a sense of pathos and complexity arguably missing from the theatrical cut.
Fingers crossed.
Quotewhy he is so motivated to destroy Superman (perhaps he suffered an intensely abusive childhood)
This is very briefly covered in the film when Lex says:
QuoteNo man in the sky intervened when I was a boy to deliver me from Daddy's fists and abominations...I've figured it out way back, if God is all powerful, he cannot be all good. And if he's all good, then he cannot be all powerful. And neither can you be. They need to see the fraud you are. With their eyes. The blood on your hands.
This doesn't explain why he then agreed to work for an even bigger "God" in Darkseid (or Steppenwolf or whichever Apokolips figure he's working for), though, or why he thought creating a killing machine that could annihilate every human being on Earth (and even try to murder him once it was born) was a good idea...
Quote from: BatmAngelus on Thu, 2 Jun 2016, 18:25
Quotewhy he is so motivated to destroy Superman (perhaps he suffered an intensely abusive childhood)
This is very briefly covered in the film when Lex says:
QuoteNo man in the sky intervened when I was a boy to deliver me from Daddy's fists and abominations...I've figured it out way back, if God is all powerful, he cannot be all good. And if he's all good, then he cannot be all powerful. And neither can you be. They need to see the fraud you are. With their eyes. The blood on your hands.
This doesn't explain why he then agreed to work for an even bigger "God" in Darkseid (or Steppenwolf or whichever Apokolips figure he's working for), though, or why he thought creating a killing machine that could annihilate every human being on Earth (and even try to murder him once it was born) was a good idea...
True.
But this is all why I want some further elaboration as to the extent of abuse Lex suffered. One vague line about 'daddy's abominations' isn't enough motive for me.
Oh definitely agreed. Besides, the abusive father scenario is a cliche for villains at this point and already covered ground as far as Lex is concerned. Hints of Lex's dad hating him stem back to Gene Hackman and Smallville spent a good 7 seasons having Lex deal with an emotionally manipulative father.
Tying that into his mistrust in gods is the only real fresh part of that take, but it's again completely marred by Lex's involvement with more powerful beings in the second half of the film.
The best, most interesting versions of Lex Luthor are the ones who believe they can save the world. So, I wish they had gone the opposite route by having a more sane Lex be aware of Darkseid, but see him as a threat rather than work for him. He could believe that Superman was the first part of Darkseid's invasion on Earth, using the Metropolis battle with Zod as a way to win people over and gain their trust, and it's down to him to expose this false messiah as a servant to Darkseid and bring power back to the human beings before the bigger threat arrives. On a deeper level, though, his ego just can't handle the idea of there being someone better than him who's more equipped to be the hero.
Instead of watching a rambling psychopath who revels in hurting others, I would've been far more interested in an egotistical, but initially well-intentioned genius Lex Luthor who gradually becomes corrupted into a supervillain by his jealousy and paranoia. This would've served as the origin of Lex Luthor and his hatred for Superman, on a deeper level than how he became bald.
Quote from: BatmAngelus on Thu, 2 Jun 2016, 19:09
So, I wish they had gone the opposite route by having a more sane Lex be aware of Darkseid, but see him as a threat rather than work for him. He could believe that Superman was the first part of Darkseid's invasion on Earth, using the Metropolis battle with Zod as a way to win people over and gain their trust, and it's down to him to expose this false messiah as a servant to Darkseid and bring power back to the human beings before the bigger threat arrives.
I would've preferred something along these lines. If you're going to feature a fake alien threat (Superman) and a real alien threat (Apokolips) in the same film, it makes sense to have one mistaken for the other. It makes less sense to have a character passionately reject one alien threat, only to then welcome another when it suits the narrative. Maybe the extended cut will reveal Lex had some foreknowledge of Apokolips and that this informed his mistrust of Superman.
I don't think johnnygobbs is the best person to talk to about the flaws of BvS, BA. He's gone on record saying he has no desire to see the film and judge it for itself, yet he'll still jump on the bandwagon to hate it and dismiss it. Very disappointing.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 2 Jun 2016, 21:35
I don't think johnnygobbs is the best person to talk to about the flaws of BvS, BA. He's gone on record saying he has no desire to see the film and judge it for itself, yet he'll still jump on the bandwagon to hate it and dismiss it. Very disappointing.
The Laughing Fish, I'd very much appreciate it if you went back to addressing me directly rather than speaking of me as a third person with other posters. :)
I'd like to get on with posters like you, since I have no issues with you, but that means accepting that we aren't always going to agree with one another. Besides, unless I've misread something, some of your own posts have been critical, albeit marginally so, of Batman v Superman.
Plus, my hope has always been for a good film. If Snyder can correct some of the vocal criticisms directed against BvS with his ultimate edition, then I wish him the best. :)
A very pleasant surprise to see this trailer.
Extended intro in Africa of Supes in action.
Clark as a reporter investigating Batman.
Superman leaving the hearing after the explosion.
Jenna Malone content.
And we know there's an extended ending as well.
Exciting times. Really looking forward to this.
I'll buy the physical copy on day one.
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 3 Jun 2016, 00:10
I'll buy the physical copy on day one.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/TCzkYInGcxI8E/200.gif)
There's also security footage of Batman stealing the kryptonite.
I'm most curious about the Africa sequence. I saw Superman blowing up some missiles heading towards a village.
Clark getting insight on what Gotham citizens think of Batman will be curious to watch as well.
The Clark Kent investigation scenes are my most anticipated overall.
I think the expanded cut will benefit Clark quite a bit.
Looking forward to checking out the Ultimate Cut. I want the Bluray+DVD combo version for sure (could care less about Blyray 3D), with hopefully Wonder Woman with Supes and Bats on the cover (hey, the Trinity!), and it's going to look great on my shelf right beside my copy of MAN OF STEEL.
I had another look at the scene of the Gotham woman talking to Clark in the trailer again.
If you listen to her carefully, she tells Clark "Words don't stop him (referring to Batman). You know what stops him? Fists!".
This would explain why Superman was trying to subdue Batman instead of trying again in telling him about Lex's plan. Batman interrupted him the first time, and Superman realised he was not going to be reasoned with. I still feel iffy about it though.
Superman tries to talk with Batman at the start of the fight, but he's met with serious obstacles. High frequency cannons and machine guns. He demonstrates his power to Batman by flying him through a building and tossing him down. I imagine he then assumed Batman would yield. But by then he's gassed by kryptonite and fighting for his life. Combat is essential because his opponent seeks to kill.
Spoilers: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman_vs_superman/spoilers-6-biggest-reveals-from-the-batman-superman-ultimate-a142561
- Sounds like this cut mainly improves on the Africa/Senate bombing subplot.
- Don't expect Jena Malone to be Barbara Gordon
I think I changed my mind, I'm gonna get the digital version on day one, and then wait for the Blu Ray to come down in price before I pick it up. If the Blu Ray came out first, I would definitely get it, but I wanna watch this movie as soon as possible.
I'll wait for the Blu-ray, but from what I read, the Ultimate Cut is sensational. I can't really elaborate due to the lack of spoiler tags, but it will strengthen the film a great deal. Lex's machinations are even more prevalent, the Africa content is more defined and Clark gets to investigate Batman on his own. I liked the Theatrical Cut, but honestly, they should have just released the three hour cut. It'll be the version of the film as far as I am concerned.
I'm thinking I will probably pick up the Target exclusive version. Which is a digibook with a 3D cover like Target's Man of Steel exclusive was.
(https://s25.postimg.org/dye12v7f3/Blu_DVD_Target.jpg)
(https://s25.postimg.org/h2hukkymn/14mtb9z.jpg)
Having both MOS and BvS in similar packaging would look more spiffy up on my DVD/Blu Ray shelves, but I really wish Target had a 3D digibook Trinity cover (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman) like that of the DVD/Blu combo version.
(https://s25.postimg.org/dj2r9ulhr/Blue_DVD_Reg.jpg)
Course for the steelbook fans, Best Buy's got you covered.
(https://s25.postimg.org/5p25ogdov/Blu_DVD_Best_Buy.jpg)
And if you really want to get fancy, there's the edition that includes a state of either Bats or Supes.
(https://s25.postimg.org/st2mh1gzz/Blue_Dvd_statues.jpg)
Course this is all Stateside exclusives. No idea what the UK is getting.
There's so much to talk about in regards to the BvS Ultimate Cut. So much. After mulling it over, I think BvS is pretty much the Batman Returns of the modern age. They're both controversial, with BvS receiving an even harsher response. Both have gorgeous visuals and analyse the characters and their impacts on the world pretty darn well. Narratively, BvS is stronger though, especially in the Ultimate Cut version of the film.
The Ultimate Cut leaked a while back and the additional scenes surfaced on YouTube. I think they've since been taken down. I saw them while they were online and, although I'd need to see them in context to really appreciate them, it says to safe that they flesh things out more. The consensus among those who've seen the Ultimate Cut is that this is the superior version of the film. I loved the theatrical cut regardless but the editing was a little wonky in the first half and you could tell things had been trimmed down.
Anyway, I cannot wait for the Blu-ray to be released. The UK gets it a couple of weeks later than the US!
I've seen the UC. It's phenomenal. Absolutely loved it. It makes a film I already enjoyed so much better. Superman and Clark really benefit a great deal. Lex comes off really well too. Even more ruthless and determined to smear his enemies.
I bought the UC on Amazon, and I thought it was even better than the TC. Really good. This will be the only version I watch from now on.
Quote from: DallyWhitty on Sat, 25 Jun 2016, 17:53The Ultimate Cut leaked a while back and the additional scenes surfaced on YouTube. I think they've since been taken down. I saw them while they were online and, although I'd need to see them in context to really appreciate them, it says to safe that they flesh things out more. The consensus among those who've seen the Ultimate Cut is that this is the superior version of the film. I loved the theatrical cut regardless but the editing was a little wonky in the first half and you could tell things had been trimmed down.
Not surprising. When movies run long like this, the movie studio usually wants the character-driven stuff cut down. The thinking goes that those huge action sequences all cost a fortune so why pare them down? Just trim the "superfluous" stuff like the cheaper talky, character-oriented scenes.
Studio logic.
That said, everybody knows that you probably won't be allowed to release a nearly three hour superhero film by the studio. Terrio should've written a shorter script. I'm surprised WB greenlit the movie knowing the final product would be very close to three hours.
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 28 Jun 2016, 21:33
I bought the UC on Amazon, and I thought it was even better than the TC. Really good. This will be the only version I watch from now on.
My thoughts too. More footage equals a better experience in my mind. Because I'd be watching the Theatrical, knowing what was missing in contrast to the UC.
Man, I wish I wasn't so hell bent on picking up the digibook Target edition, cause all these positive reviews/reactions to the UC, in addition to TDK's praise, is literally making my mouth water. Truth be told, I'm still very much a physical media guy, as opposed to digital downloads, but this is incredibly tempting. Tom Petty said "waiting is the hardest part" and boy was he ever on the money!
I managed to see the UC online. I need it on my shelf, though.
Man of Steel: 2 hours, 28 minutes
BvS UC: 3 hours
Anyone have 5 hours and 28 minutes spare to watch two movies back to back?
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 29 Jun 2016, 04:03
Anyone have 5 hours and 28 minutes spare to watch two movies back to back?
A MOS/BvS UC double feature sounds like a fun way to spend a day off!
I just hope they don't chop the JL theatrical cut too much. In any case, I'd expect a director's cut to be released with bonus scenes and the like.
Yeah, hopefully the positive response to the UC will lead WB to realize that editing can do alot more harm than good. Both in terms of box office, and the reception from the general audiences. I also hope that the UC redeems Snyder's take to some extent, and as a consequence, lessen the notion of going 'lighter', and 'jokey' with the DCEU.
I really have no desire for the DCEU to mimmick the MCU's style. The MCU style works for them, and that's great, but I appreciate Snyder approach to the material with the DCEU so far, and would generally prefer the same style to remain consistent. Or as consistent as possible.
Yeah. I like Snyder as much as Burton. Both are misunderstood geniuses.
I watched this cut a few days ago. Here some first impressions below.
***Minor spoilers***:
QuoteLet me say I'm very disappointed most of the new footage was cut out from the theatrical cut. The Africa sequence makes more sense to me now and gives Lois a stronger purpose to be in this film, and Clark having a more proactive look into Batman is a bonus. Anatoli Knyazev here is a very cunning here as Lex's right hand man. This version clearly shows Lex is definitely manipulating everything and removes any ambiguity the original cut had, which makes his line to Clark and Bruce "I love bringing people together" more relevant than ever.
You may reckon I haven't watched enough films to say this, but nonetheless, it's not often I see a director's cut better than the original cut. But this is definitely a better version of BvS.
Glad you liked it. And it's not adding new scenes in either. This *was* the film before WB chopped it up to fit 2.5 hours.
I finally picked up the Blu-ray of the 'Ultimate Edition' yesterday and watched it in the evening. I've seen mixed reactions to it online – some saying it improves on the theatrical cut, others saying it doesn't make a difference. As to my own opinion, I thought it was a significant improvement. For one thing, it filled in several plot holes from the earlier cut:
• The immolation of the terrorists' remains (in the theatrical cut they're simply shot) to make it look like Superman was responsible for their deaths.
• Explaining why everyone who goes to prison with the bat-brand ends up dead.
• Explaining about the lead lining in the wheelchair that prevented Superman from seeing the bomb.
• The 'Communion' scene; perhaps suggesting Lex may have been misled/manipulated into unleashing Doomsday by Steppenwolf's influence.
Maybe some of these things were covered in the theatrical cut and I simply missed them. But I don't remember that being the case.
I think my favourite additions were the scenes of Clark doing some investigative reporting. I'm a big fan of the Dean Cain Superman, and that whole subplot about Clark digging into the urban legends surrounding Batman reminded me of the investigative narratives from the nineties TV show. I also thought those scenes were important in justifying Superman's low tolerance towards Batman when they finally confront one another later in the film. That entire subplot should never have been cut.
So those are a few of my thoughts. IMO the pacing's improved, the plot makes more sense, and it's just a better film full stop. I don't rate it as highly as some other people on this site, and I still think it has quite a lot of problems, but overall the 'Ultimate Edition' is much better than the theatrical version. I actually like it more than Man of Steel, even though I think MoS is an objectively superior film.
I'm curious to know if there are any differences between the US and UK versions of the 'Ultimate Edition'. I ask because my Blu-ray is rated 12, which was the same rating as the theatrical cut. But the US version is rated R. Is anything missing from the UK version, or was the R-rated content simply not an issue with the BBFC? It's odd, because Suicide Squad is rated 15 over here, but it's only a PG-13 in the US.
There were two scenes in the Ultimate Edition that were cut out from the theatrical cut:
1) The new Africa scene introduced Superman as he destroys two drone missiles flying towards the village before arriving on time to save Lois. In the theatrical version, Superman comes flying from the sky after the mercenaries shot all the terrorists.
2) The theatrical version had a scene where Clark watches the TV news report about Batman's ruthless methods against sex offenders, while making a breakfast. In the Ultimate Edition, that news report was replaced by the African witness who gave her testimony to the Senate, questioning how does Superman get to choose which lives matter most than others. I really liked how the UE showed that she was an actress paid by Lex to slander Superman, and how Lex silenced her when she had a change of heart later on. Besides, it's better that Clark goes to investigate Batman's methods himself as we get to see him work as a journalist for once.
If there is one little gripe I have about the UE, I'd like to ask why did we have to see Batfleck's naked ass in the shower?
I honestly believe that scene has a point. Clark has a bathing scene earlier in the film. He's in a loving mood and shares this with Lois. Bruce, on the other hand, just glimpsed the vandalised Robin suit. He has a shower alone and looks miserable. That's the contrast. Clark is embracing life and Bruce is enduring it.
I watched it last night. I don't have the best memory for details so it's hard for me to do a comparison but I enjoyed it more than the theatrical version. It does seem more of Superman/Clark got shelved than Bruce/Batman. Perhaps because the universe had already developed Clark as a character.
There was a scene referencing Major Ferris (from the Green Lantern) that I didn't remember in the theatrical version.
I really don't get why Eisenberg is so heavily criticized as Luthor, is it just because people find him annoying? He brought a lot more energy than Kevin Spacey did. So he didn't have the look down until the end, Hackman didn't have the look either. I found him rather zany and unpredictable, a pompous arrogant genius which is how Lex should be. It would be interesting if he got to team up with Leto's joker.
As far as the DCU goes I don't have an issue with how they are going about; rather than bring a team together at once, they're adding pieces as they go. Starting with two heroes, then a third, then likely three more (Aquaman, Flash, and Cyborg), and of course we don't know how long Superman will stay buried for but despite the ending, we do know in Suicide Squad that he stays 'dead' for a bit.
Quote from: riddler on Tue, 23 Aug 2016, 14:17
and of course we don't know how long Superman will stay buried for but despite the ending, we do know in Suicide Squad that he stays 'dead' for a bit.
My guess for Superman's revival is this:
He's in 'low power mode' and the only thing keeping him alive is the codex.
He requires assistance to be revived, which can happen in the genesis chamber.
I'm still going with my ring theory, lol. :D
Bruce paying for Clark's funeral is a small but powerful addition to the ultimate cut. He's doing a good deed but isn't seeking kudos. He's standing alone wearing black, reflecting on his failures and looking to the future. Adding in Pete Ross and the pastor from Man of Steel further cements BvS's sequel status too. That's something BvS doesn't get enough credit for either. Feeling like a true sequel to Man of Steel. Adding in Batman and other heroes didn't detract from anything. And let's not forget, Man of Steel had the Wayne Enterprises satellite and LexCorp tanker cameos already.
Quote from: BatmAngelus on Thu, 2 Jun 2016, 18:25
QuoteNo man in the sky intervened when I was a boy to deliver me from Daddy's fists and abominations...I've figured it out way back, if God is all powerful, he cannot be all good. And if he's all good, then he cannot be all powerful. And neither can you be. They need to see the fraud you are. With their eyes. The blood on your hands.
This doesn't explain why he then agreed to work for an even bigger "God" in Darkseid (or Steppenwolf or whichever Apokolips figure he's working for), though, or why he thought creating a killing machine that could annihilate every human being on Earth (and even try to murder him once it was born) was a good idea...
It turns out that Lex thought he could control Doomsday. I was taking a peak at one of the Blu-Ray extras titled The Empire of Luthor, and there was an unused line where Eisenberg recites on camera "Ancient Kryptonian deformity. Obeys only me. And born to destroy you".
The "obeys only me" line was replaced with "blood of my blood" in the final cut. I would've preferred that they kept the original sentence. The "blood of my blood" line is too subtle.
My love for the BvS UE only grows with time.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 7 Aug 2016, 10:20
I honestly believe that scene has a point. Clark has a bathing scene earlier in the film. He's in a loving mood and shares this with Lois. Bruce, on the other hand, just glimpsed the vandalised Robin suit. He has a shower alone and looks miserable. That's the contrast. Clark is embracing life and Bruce is enduring it.
I think Lois's bath scene had more of a purpose. She comes home and recuperates by lying in the bathtub, cleaning herself after that dreadful incident in Africa. Not to say that Lois suffers from PTSD like Bruce does, but usually people have the urge to wash themselves to cope with a traumatic experience.
Of course, I wouldn't expect that sort of analytical thinking from garbage blogs nowadays. This is a screenshot taken from Digital Spy, criticising that bathtub scene when BvS came out:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfQVouDVAAYWnXr.jpg)
First of all, don't you just HATE it when editors make headlines as if they talk like an airhead Valley girl? >:(
Second, I'd like to know if Digital Spy had the same problem with Steve Trevor's 'gratuitous' nudity in Wonder Woman? Or is it only a problem if it concerns a woman?
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 27 Mar 2017, 11:41It turns out that Lex thought he could control Doomsday. I was taking a peak at one of the Blu-Ray extras titled The Empire of Luthor, and there was an unused line where Eisenberg recites on camera "Ancient Kryptonian deformity. Obeys only me. And born to destroy you".
The "obeys only me" line was replaced with "blood of my blood" in the final cut. I would've preferred that they kept the original sentence. The "blood of my blood" line is too subtle.
But that gives no explanation for why he'd think that it would obey only him. Being blood of his blood doesn't mean he'd obey him.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 12 Jun 2018, 14:11Second, I'd like to know if Digital Spy had the same problem with Steve Trevor's 'gratuitous' nudity in Wonder Woman? Or is it only a problem if it concerns a woman?
Seeing a guys chest isn't really considered legit nudity.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 12 Jun 2018, 14:11
I think Lois's bath scene had more of a purpose. She comes home and recuperates by lying in the bathtub, cleaning herself after that dreadful incident in Africa. Not to say that Lois suffers from PTSD like Bruce does, but usually people have the urge to wash themselves to cope with a traumatic experience.
I agree, but sometimes things don't have to be so deep. Lois and Clark are an iconic couple. They're the Adam and Eve of the comic world. I think they deserved a scene like this, and honestly, I'd like to see more of it. Sometimes office banter isn't enough because romance is a key component of their relationship. The Dean Cain show displayed this well.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 13 Jun 2018, 06:23
I agree, but sometimes things don't have to be so deep. Lois and Clark are an iconic couple. They're the Adam and Eve of the comic world. I think they deserved a scene like this, and honestly, I'd like to see more of it. Sometimes office banter isn't enough because romance is a key component of their relationship. The Dean Cain show displayed this well.
That is true. Aside from that TV show, that bathtub scene was probably the most intimate between Lois and Clark on film. When you look at this perspective, it's rather shameful the entire Superman film franchise doesn't really explore their relationship that deeply if you look beyond that "Can You Read My Mind?" sequence and their time at the Fortress of Solitude in the first two Reeve films.