The film went before cameras yesterday and there is still a lot of speculation about who the villain or villains will be. There is a lot that alludes to Darkseid but two recent, separate reports say it could actually be between Atlantis and the surface dwellers. We won't know for sure until we see a synopsis.
I would guess, obviously I don't know any more than anyone other than the crew and cast, but I would guess there will be some "earthly" battle like the Atlantis idea against a backdrop of something super ominous and mysterious, then at the end, either with the battle won and the good guys celebrating or before it even ends, Darkseid makes his presence known with an omega beam that reduces someone important (not a JLer and I hope not Lois) to instant ash.
If he's the villain it feels like they almost HAVE to do that at some point in one of the two movies (or if Supes gets one more solo flick which seems unlikely with the "Dawn" of the JL), a live action version of the Dan Turpin scene in STAS which I watched last night on Youtube and it had me in tears. The rage and heartbreak of Superman and his tearful words at Dan's grave may be the best scene of STAS, but also one of the hardest to watch.
Quote from: Catwoman on Tue, 12 Apr 2016, 21:21
I would guess, obviously I don't know any more than anyone other than the crew and cast, but I would guess there will be some "earthly" battle like the Atlantis idea against a backdrop of something super ominous and mysterious, then at the end, either with the battle won and the good guys celebrating or before it even ends, Darkseid makes his presence known with an omega beam that reduces someone important (not a JLer and I hope not Lois) to instant ash.
If he's the villain it feels like they almost HAVE to do that at some point in one of the two movies (or if Supes gets one more solo flick which seems unlikely with the "Dawn" of the JL), a live action version of the Dan Turpin scene in STAS which I watched last night on Youtube and it had me in tears. The rage and heartbreak of Superman and his tearful words at Dan's grave may be the best scene of STAS, but also one of the hardest to watch.
Dan Turpin represented the everyman who never gave up and took it to the man. Bravery at its best.
If Darkseid isn't the main villain, maybe it might be Black Manta? Assuming the plot remains around Atlantis.
The fairytale would be Batman and WW assembling the league, and duelling the villain. In their time of need, Supes comes back and assists in the beatdown.
Isn't Aquaman one of the solo projects too? If so I'd guess Black Manta would show up there, maybe setting the stage for him to join the next Suicide Sqhad if it gets a sequel.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 13 Apr 2016, 10:46
The fairytale would be Batman and WW assembling the league, and duelling the villain. In their time of need, Supes comes back and assists in the beatdown.
Works for me, though I am starting to wonder if we might get a side-arc where Supes returns (black suit/longer hair) early on in the film, and works incognito unbeknownst to everyone (somewhat similar to the Lois&Clark mini prior to DC REBIRTH), all while the League is being put together. Perhaps intentionally, perhaps due to his memory being scattered, before
finally making his grand entrance return in the classic red & blue to aid the League in defeating the villain.
That could work. Or they could go the For The Man Who Has Everything route. Snyder likes his dream sequences, so I wouldn't rule it out. Superman in the casket dreaming of an idealised life on Krypton. It's all sunshine and rainbows until you get cameos of Jor-El who is now viewed as a radical preacher given the planet never explodes. Superman eventually wakes from the disturbing dream, is resurrected and saves the day. I think at this point, Lois could pick up on energy radiating around the grave, investigates the site further and has the coffin exhumed.
That very well could work as well. Speaking of dream sequences, I expect Lois' role in JL to be of vital importance considering the Flash's cryptic warning to Bruce about Lois being "Key", and that he was always right about "him". Course at this stage, we can't exactly say for sure who the "him" Flash was referring to, but the dream sequence in BvS heavily implies that Superman blames Batman for the loss/death of Lois, and which theoretically caused Superman to turn and become a enforcer/herald of Darkseid. In addition to possibly providing a liason to humans who willingly submit to Darkseid...
Ben Affleck posted a video of Deathstroke out of nowhere on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/benaffleck/status/770259217940746245
People are speculating that this is the DCEU's version of Slade Wilson, and prematurely declaring he's the main villain of the solo Batman film. In any case, it looks like he could be in JL. I think I can see the Batmobile in the background.
I read that Joe Manganiello (who played 'Flash Thompson' in the Sam Raimi Spider-Man films) is currently front-runner to play Deathstroke in Affleck's solo Batman movie.
If that is true, I think it's a good pick. Manganiello is certainly big and ripped enough to pose a physical threat to even Affleck.
Quote from: johnnygobbs on Wed, 31 Aug 2016, 13:27I read that Joe Manganiello (who played 'Flash Thompson' in the Sam Raimi Spider-Man films) is currently front-runner to play Deathstroke in Affleck's solo Batman movie.
If that is true, I think it's a good pick. Manganiello is certainly big and ripped enough to pose a physical threat to even Affleck.
I wonder if that's a good consolation prize for him. Word 'round the water cooler is (or was) that Manganiello went through a mini depression when he tried out for Superman for MOS and got pretty far in the process... before realizing the shooting schedule for MOS would conflict with that vampire show he was doing so he had to back out. Too bad, really, he was one of my dark horse candidates to play Superman. Then again, you can't argue the role is in bad hands now, that's for sure. Cavill's awesome and probably the better choice anyway.
Manganiello as Deathstroke? I'll give it a shot.
Deathstroke sounds good to me.
1. It's someone new.
2. It equals an awesome fight.
3. Read the top two points again.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 2 Sep 2016, 04:10Deathstroke sounds good to me.
1. It's someone new.
2. It equals an awesome fight.
3. Read the top two points again.
At some point Greg Berlanti got confused and thought he was doing a Batman TV show because a lot of Batmanisms have been tossed into Arrow. Deathstroke has been in there too. I'm okay with it, if for no other reason than deflating a bunch of Deadpool fans who know nothing about comics (but I repeat myself).
Try this for size.
Amanda Waller hires Deathstroke to kill Batman.
Time has passed after the events of Suicide Squad. Waller no longer needs protection from Wayne, and she's disgruntled that the Justice League has been formed. These heroes are going to encroach on her territory. Waller is the corrupt and untrustworthy sort who deletes emails, lies about it and also pockets dirty cash. These secrets need to be protected, and that means Wayne has to die. Just to make sure he says nothing.
It depends on how sizeable Deathstroke's role is, mind you.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 2 Sep 2016, 03:02
Word 'round the water cooler is (or was) that Manganiello went through a mini depression when he tried out for Superman for MOS and got pretty far in the process... before realizing the shooting schedule for MOS would conflict with that vampire show he was doing so he had to back out. Too bad, really, he was one of my dark horse candidates to play Superman.
Yep. Prior to Cavill being announced, I recall someone making up a manip of Joe as Superman, with John Byrne commenting that Manganiello was essentially the embodiment of "his" Superman.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 2 Sep 2016, 04:10
Deathstroke sounds good to me.
1. It's someone new.
2. It equals an awesome fight.
3. Read the top two points again.
As long as we get a fight scene as good as the Arkham Origins trailer, everything will be perfect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pnK8akbd2M
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 3 Sep 2016, 00:07
At some point Greg Berlanti got confused and thought he was doing a Batman TV show because a lot of Batmanisms have been tossed into Arrow. Deathstroke has been in there too. I'm okay with it, if for no other reason than deflating a bunch of Deadpool fans who know nothing about comics (but I repeat myself).
Wasn't Deadpool supposed to be a parody of Deathstroke? As a matter of fact, he's traditionally more of a Teen Titans villain, and occasionally a Green Arrow villain if I'm not mistaken.
The warehouse fight in BvS is the best encounter for the character in live action. Taking on many threats at once at winning. He attaches gadgets to guns that immobilise the users, fires the grappling gun a number of times and throws a batarang. So basically, he's a multi-tasker just like the comics and Arkham games. This Batman fights dirty and breaks bones. But what I really dig, is how grounded it all seems to be even though Batman kicks ass. He's shot in the head twice and gets stabbed in the shoulder. It's not pure smooth sailing. The goons aren't just standing around to be assaulted - they actually shoot at him. But he perseveres and uses this to fuel his crusade.
Imagine that same attention to detail in a one-on-one encounter. Just like that Arkham Origins trailer posted above. Batman and Deathstroke going hammer at tong at one another. I think such a fight could be an opportunity to show why Batman is Batman. What separates him from the contract killers. The mercenaries. What special magic he possesses that has got him over the line the past 20 years. The fight could end much like B89's encounter with Ray Charles.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 4 Sep 2016, 13:07
The warehouse fight in BvS is the best encounter for the character in live action. Taking on many threats at once at winning. He attaches gadgets to guns that immobilise the users, fires the grappling gun a number of times and throws a batarang. So basically, he's a multi-tasker just like the comics and Arkham games. This Batman fights dirty and breaks bones. But what I really dig, is how grounded it all seems to be even though Batman kicks ass. He's shot in the head twice and gets stabbed in the shoulder. It's not pure smooth sailing. The goons aren't just standing around to be assaulted - they actually shoot at him. But he perseveres and uses this to fuel his crusade.
Imagine that same attention to detail in a one-on-one encounter. Just like that Arkham Origins trailer posted above. Batman and Deathstroke going hammer at tong at one another. I think such a fight could be an opportunity to show why Batman is Batman. What separates him from the contract killers. The mercenaries. What special magic he possesses that has got him over the line the past 20 years. The fight could end much like B89's encounter with Ray Charles.
I agree, but it's a shame that I see a lot of bandwagon haters dismiss the warehouse scene as "feels shot like a video game". Christ, do we want to return to the dark old days of incoherent and clumsy "fight" scenes again?
But unlike those people, I for one regard the video game comparison as a positive. In this day and age where the technology and costumes are advanced to make the action agile, I really appreciated how tactical Batman's takedowns were. Even how he took down Deadshot from behind in Suicide Squad was another good moment. The combat was top quality, and I liked that he didn't wallow in pain as Bale did. Batfleck got back up on his feet and kept going. It sorta reminded me of a heavily injured Keaton in 1989. His grit and determination transforms him into an unstoppable machine, which is one of the main reasons I get into this character in the first place.
There's no doubt in my mind any action scene involving Deathstroke alone would be just as brutal and exciting as the warehouse scene in BvS.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 3 Sep 2016, 03:16Waller is the corrupt and untrustworthy sort who deletes emails, lies about it and also pockets dirty cash.
I see what you did there.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 4 Sep 2016, 13:37
I agree, but it's a shame that I see a lot of bandwagon haters dismiss the warehouse scene as "feels shot like a video game". Christ, do we want to return to the dark old days of incoherent and clumsy "fight" scenes again?
Funny Fish, you must understand the times we live in. These days you can give Lois Lane a healthy portion of screen time and make her drive the plot, and the 'critics' will say her role was wasted. Which leaves sensible people scratching their heads. We live in a bizarro world. It's much like the media with their bias, and politicians who are paid up and doing the bidding of everyone but the people. These groups think they speak for the masses, but all it does is aggregate the Everyman listening to this garbage. People are thinking differently. For example, disagreeing with Margot Kidder's curious opinion in Amy Adams' Lois does not make me a woman hating pig. Nor is Kidder immune to criticism for being a woman. The critics and people we disagree with are fair game.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 4 Sep 2016, 13:07The warehouse fight in BvS is the best encounter for the character in live action. Taking on many threats at once at winning. He attaches gadgets to guns that immobilise the users, fires the grappling gun a number of times and throws a batarang. So basically, he's a multi-tasker just like the comics and Arkham games. This Batman fights dirty and breaks bones. But what I really dig, is how grounded it all seems to be even though Batman kicks ass. He's shot in the head twice and gets stabbed in the shoulder. It's not pure smooth sailing. The goons aren't just standing around to be assaulted - they actually shoot at him. But he perseveres and uses this to fuel his crusade.
I'm coming back to this.
That sequence is my favorite Batman fight in all of his recent live action history. For all the reasons you mention, yes, but also because I like the fighting style he uses. There's some martial artsy stuff in there but mostly he just batters people senseless with his fists. I like Batman as a martial arts expert. But I think I prefer Batman as a two-fisted, no-nonsense
brawler. Chris Nolan arguably started that trend in live action but if you ask me
Zack Snyder perfected it.
No fancy shmancy cartwheels. No fruity ballet martial arts.
Just one man, both of his fists and an abject lack of remorse.
If you cross him,
you are his enemy. And he
WILL take you down. Be sure of that.
Best. Batman fight. Ever.
This GIF captures your sentiment:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0BKnaAYnSI3DWi1W/giphy.gif)
Geoff Johns has apparently confirmed that Joe Manganiello will be playing Deathstroke in the solo Batfleck film, with Manganiello himself acknowledging the news on his Twitter page.
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2016/09/08/joe-manganiello-will-play-deathstroke-in-ben-afflecks-batman-movie/
https://twitter.com/JoeManganiello?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 6 Sep 2016, 01:12
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 4 Sep 2016, 13:37
I agree, but it's a shame that I see a lot of bandwagon haters dismiss the warehouse scene as "feels shot like a video game". Christ, do we want to return to the dark old days of incoherent and clumsy "fight" scenes again?
Funny Fish, you must understand the times we live in. These days you can give Lois Lane a healthy portion of screen time and make her drive the plot, and the 'critics' will say her role was wasted. Which leaves sensible people scratching their heads. We live in a bizarro world. It's much like the media with their bias, and politicians who are paid up and doing the bidding of everyone but the people. These groups think they speak for the masses, but all it does is aggregate the Everyman listening to this garbage. People are thinking differently. For example, disagreeing with Margot Kidder's curious opinion in Amy Adams' Lois does not make me a woman hating pig. Nor is Kidder immune to criticism for being a woman. The critics and people we disagree with are fair game.
Trust me, I came to realise we live in a bizarre, confusing world a long time ago. If people want to engage in groupthink without judging something on merit, that's their problem.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 9 Sep 2016, 03:22
That sequence is my favorite Batman fight in all of his recent live action history. For all the reasons you mention, yes, but also because I like the fighting style he uses. There's some martial artsy stuff in there but mostly he just batters people senseless with his fists. I like Batman as a martial arts expert. But I think I prefer Batman as a two-fisted, no-nonsense brawler. Chris Nolan arguably started that trend in live action but if you ask me Zack Snyder perfected it.
Quote for f***ing truth.
It's been officially stated that Justice League will elaborate on what BvS already signposted. The fact that Bruce is now inspired by Superman's example and will lay down his guns.
I think this plot line is great, because it gives Bruce a character arc to explore and develop, thus more screen time. Otherwise what was the point of Dawn of Justice? He went through a dark period in his life and he's now coming out the other side. I think it's pretty cool that the Keaton/Kilmer character progression is happening again in live action. However this time, I think it's more clearly defined with more reasoning behind Batman's mindset.
No doubt people will claim this is WB backtracking/inventing something that wasn't there.
But in that case, I'm happy to stand as a voice of reason.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2Famps1f.jpg&hash=e704422f0a02626c9988a4e0fda5aae50d5667e3)
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 10 Sep 2016, 14:33
It's been officially stated that Justice League will elaborate on what BvS already signposted. The fact that Bruce is now inspired by Superman's example and will lay down his guns.
I think this plot line is great, because it gives Bruce a character arc to explore and develop, thus more screen time. Otherwise what was the point of Dawn of Justice? He went through a dark period in his life and he's now coming out the other side. I think it's pretty cool that the Keaton/Kilmer character progression is happening again in live action. However this time, I think it's more clearly defined with more reasoning behind Batman's mindset.
It's certainly better than having Batman kill, but then try to not acknowledge it as many people do.
There's potential material where Batman finds himself inheriting a new "family" of sorts with the Justice League, which will show he's not alone any more and he buries his demons for good. Much like how the Burton/Schumacher series ended with joining forces with Batgirl and Robin and the guilt he once had is long gone.
Geoff Johns elaborated on the shift away from the "dark and gritty tone":
Quote
"Mistakenly in the past I think the studio has said, 'Oh, DC films are gritty and dark and that's what makes them different.' That couldn't be more wrong," Johns explained. "It's a hopeful and optimistic view of life. Even Batman has a glimmer of that in him. If he didn't think he'd make tomorrow better, he'd stop."
Source: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/justice_league/geoff-johns-and-jon-berg-on-reworking-justice-league-and-the-new-a145059
While I am glad that the films won't take themselves too seriously anymore, I can't help but still scoff at people who cherished the glum tone of Nolan's stuff, but can't accept the tone in MOS and BvS. If anything, BvS ended on a much more positive note than some people give it credit for.
I doubt Deathstroke will star in JL, but I predict we'll see him in a mid-credit scene.
I absolutely agree. You see people calling BvS pretentious and try-hard dark. And I just think they're total hypocrites. That's what was slung at the Nolan trilogy as well, but they remain silent on that front. If Nolan does it, that's fine. If Snyder does it, that's an abomination. It just comes off as pissed off jealousy. Talking down their cinematic replacement, but actually revealing their very own double standards. It's a joke.
Snyder tweeted this photo of Batfleck in his tactical suit. Reminds me of Nite Owl.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.fandango.com%2F%2Fmdcsite%2Fimages%2Ffeatured%2F201609%2Fbatman-tactical-suit.jpg&hash=1c55f9c1fff920b3c2372bbe042a72d0943ddb7d)
Aside from the goggles, it looks exactly like the Arkham Origins suit.
Definitely not my favorite, but still not as bad as TDK/R suit. Again, it looks like a live action version of the Origins suit.
For a tactical suit with a specific purpose it's okay. I'm guessing this is the JL equivalent of the BvS mech suit.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fscontent-mia1-1.cdninstagram.com%2Ft51.2885-15%2Fe35%2F14369121_763549860454139_1419180030_n.jpg&hash=a9a458ba7ccbe60fdc5f6168f373c107e53c5377)
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 15 Sep 2016, 23:46For a tactical suit with a specific purpose it's okay. I'm guessing this is the JL equivalent of the BvS mech suit.
Or the ice suits in B&R.
*runs for cover*
Toyetic slurs will no doubt be slung. However I don't have an issue with the B&R ice suits either. Batman has a variety of suits, gadgets and vehicles to fight crime. Especially after a career of 20 plus years, the guy is going to have diversity in his arsenal. It's a man who has prepared for almost every eventuality. As a viewer, I can appreciate getting something different every movie. I mean, it happens in the comics so the movies shouldn't really be any different.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 17 Sep 2016, 03:28Toyetic slurs will no doubt be slung. However I don't have an issue with the B&R ice suits either. Batman has a variety of suits, gadgets and vehicles to fight crime. Especially after a career of 20 plus years, the guy is going to have diversity in his arsenal. It's a man who has prepared for almost every eventuality. As a viewer, I can appreciate getting something different every movie. I mean, it happens in the comics so the movies shouldn't really be any different.
That's one way of looking at it.
Another way of looking at it is Iron Man, Spider-Man, Thor and all the rest have had new outfits in every subsequent Marvel movie. The reason for this is so the toy companies have something new to offer the kiddos every time around. Nobody seems too bothered by their toyeticism so why should it be a problem with the DCEU?
I mean, there's not a double standard here among the anti-DCEU bunch,
RIGHT? They're holding each MCU and DCEU movie to the exact same standard,
RIGHT?
Good point. It's only a product of shame when the DCEU does it.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 15 Sep 2016, 23:30
Aside from the goggles, it looks exactly like the Arkham Origins suit.
Definitely not my favorite, but still not as bad as TDK/R suit. Again, it looks like a live action version of the Origins suit.
Yeah, it does look similar to the AO Batsuit too. The more I look at those slanted ears, the more I'm reminded by Bruce Timm's design. The only time I saw this design put to live action was in a fan film.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fart.cafimg.com%2Fimages%2FCategory_113908%2Fsubcat_177671%2FJgHKgJta_0809161548541gpadd.jpg&hash=393a4f66f741f8c39aa4f1de2f4e6cd8c46241b6)
First look at JK Simmons as Commissioner Gordon.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CslBJCJW8AA4TM5.jpg:orig)
Now that's a real bat signal. Big and bold. Snyder doesn't play around.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 18 Sep 2016, 01:26Now that's a real bat signal. Big and bold. Snyder doesn't play around.
True... but from a practical standpoint, a "real" bat signal would use lasers in today's world. I understand Snyder's affection for tradition here but a conventional floodlight isn't as effective as lasers would be.
It's an amazing image though, I'll say that.
Real meaning 'now THAT's a knife', compared to the puny Nolan era flashlight.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 18 Sep 2016, 02:34
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 18 Sep 2016, 01:26Now that's a real bat signal. Big and bold. Snyder doesn't play around.
True... but from a practical standpoint, a "real" bat signal would use lasers in today's world.
Nygma, is that you?
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2F2qnb6m8.png&hash=924e2775cf3dfd3a70c85a72e3f41a0bd521b205)
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 17 Sep 2016, 07:31
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 17 Sep 2016, 03:28Toyetic slurs will no doubt be slung. However I don't have an issue with the B&R ice suits either. Batman has a variety of suits, gadgets and vehicles to fight crime. Especially after a career of 20 plus years, the guy is going to have diversity in his arsenal. It's a man who has prepared for almost every eventuality. As a viewer, I can appreciate getting something different every movie. I mean, it happens in the comics so the movies shouldn't really be any different.
That's one way of looking at it.
Another way of looking at it is Iron Man, Spider-Man, Thor and all the rest have had new outfits in every subsequent Marvel movie. The reason for this is so the toy companies have something new to offer the kiddos every time around. Nobody seems too bothered by their toyeticism so why should it be a problem with the DCEU?
I mean, there's not a double standard here among the anti-DCEU bunch, RIGHT? They're holding each MCU and DCEU movie to the exact same standard, RIGHT?
That's another double standard we have to worry about. Because the Nolan trilogy double standards wasn't enough. And that hurts more because I'm an MCU fan. It's a bloody shame.
But let's face it, the MCU double standards have already started. People were saying Wonder Woman was unnecessary in BvS, but I thought she served more of a purpose than Spider-Man did in Civil War.
One can say whatever they want about WW's role in BvS, but nobody can deny that she is now a co-founder of the JL. Spidey had no business being in Civil War at all, unless you want to argue that Tony Stark wanted to help him as a way to ease his guilt for being blamed for the young dead soldier in Sokovia. Still, bringing a teenager to hunt down a fugitive assassin is pretty irresponsible of Stark, if you think about it.
Wonder Woman's role has more purpose than Spider-Man's. Let's have a look:
Wonder Woman, like Batman, is disillusioned with the world. Whereas Batman's disillusionment manifested itself in harsher crime fighting methods, Wonder Woman's response was to retreat and keep a low profile.
Therefore they are kindred spirits dealing with a similar issue differently. Wonder Woman gave up, whereas Batman was on the verge of burnout. Wonder Woman realises she needs to help, and Batman realises he needs to step back from the abyss. They can help each other through it, with Superman's sacrifice inspiring them both.
Introducing Wonder Woman now effectively makes her Batman's first metahuman recruit. Given their similar starting point, it makes a ton of sense that they're the two heroes to commence this mission together. Introducing Wonder Woman in BvS strengthens their connection, along with the audiences'.
Spider-Man, on the other hand, is just there for an action scene. And to please Mr Stark. It's a decent action scene, and I liked Holland, but it's as token as things get. Diana was intertwined throughout, and not just introduced at the end.
Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I like the fact that the Wonder Woman movie will take place during World War I. Since Diana's arc seems to be an idealistic Amazonian ambassador who lost all faith in man's world, you couldn't pick a better conflict for her to be beaten down than World War I. Man, that war was MESSED UP. Nothing that happened in World War II can compare to the insane atrocities from World War I, the shock and awe of mechanization and so forth. I could easily believe that Diana would just freaking give up after World War I.
The most likely explanation for the change is because Captain America now has a monopoly on World War II in the public consciousness. But whatever the reason, WB (or whoever) is making the right choice by using World War I for Wonder Woman's story.
Exactly. War is war, but WW1 had such a horrid waste of life. The new-fangled weapons and technology (machine guns and tanks) combined with outdated tactics and incompetent commanders led to the creation of a stalemate where both sides would blindly send men to their deaths all for a gain of a few hundred metres, only to be lost the next day.
Sure, she's 5000 years old. But the choice of World War 1 also plays up to the fact Wonder Woman is a lot older than Captain America. She's lived every one of those years, too. Whereas Cap was chilling in ice. What I also like, is that cinematically, Wonder Woman hasn't appeared on the big screen once. I dig the 'real world' concept that since WW1, Diana has been living amongst us but has been retired. When she drops down to protect Batman from Doomsday's energy blast, she's finally outing herself to the world again. She's back. And for the world at large, it's their first time seeing her too. Her career starts again.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 19 Sep 2016, 07:10
Exactly. War is war, but WW1 had such a horrid waste of life. The new-fangled weapons and technology (machine guns and tanks) combined with outdated tactics and incompetent commanders led to the creation of a stalemate where both sides would blindly send men to their deaths all for a gain of a few hundred metres, only to be lost the next day.
Sure, she's 5000 years old. But the choice of World War 1 also plays up to the fact Wonder Woman is a lot older than Captain America. She's lived every one of those years, too. Whereas Cap was chilling in ice. What I also like, is that cinematically, Wonder Woman hasn't appeared on the big screen once. I dig the 'real world' concept that since WW1, Diana has been living amongst us but has been retired. When she drops down to protect Batman from Doomsday's energy blast, she's finally outing herself to the world again. She's back. And for the world at large, it's their first time seeing her too. Her career starts again.
All of that would definitely reflect her dialogue about losing her faith in humanity long ago in BvS.
Meanwhile, Snyder has tweeted this.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtimYIZWAAA8SSb.jpg)
Some people have speculated that the storyboard contains Deathstroke, if you zoom in carefully at the picture.
They just released a short little BTS featurette. Looks like they're having fun making the movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ilFzVLWPog
Awesome, thanks. I think the team dynamic will be great based on this brief clip.
I'm getting a positive Avengers vibe from that featurette. The first Avengers, by the way. Not the overhyped Age of Ultron.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F2u60etz.jpg&hash=de3e6a7eb9202117c3b0f2545c1ec4d886712609)
Looks like they're entering the batcave. Now I'm really excited.
There's a rumour going around that John Cleese may be joining Justice League.
http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/11/26/john-cleese-justice-league-twitter/
I like Cleese, so that's fine if true.
It had occurred to me that John Cleese would've been perfect as a more "traditional" Alfred.
Not that I'm complaining about Jeremy Irons, but we'll see how he progress in JL.
In Justice League-related news, Patrick Wilson has been cast as the Ocean Master for the Aquaman film.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/aquaman-movie-casts-patrick-wilson-as-villain-955553
Solid choice. I am not overly familiar with Ocean Master, but liked him well enough as a villain in that animated "Throne of Atlantis" Justice League animated movie.
So it appears there will be another version of the Mech Batsuit from BvS, judging by this sculpture.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cz1Ccl4XUAA2N0U.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cz1CclmW8AAqj1c.jpg)
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/justice_league/possible-first-look-at-batmans-upgraded-armored-suit-for-justice-a147559
Very cool.
Nice. I admire that the so called 'toyetic' side of the character is back. It's no secret Batman has a lot of toys at his disposal. And he uses them for different situations. I'm happy about it.
Toyetic became a dirty word post-Schumacher but you're right, Batman lends himself to that. It's probably not hard to make it organic to the story. The mech armor thing, Batman's various vehicles and other stuff, it works pretty easily and I appreciate Snyder's openness to that.
Jason Momoa has shared this eight minute documentary about himself while filming JL. I predict he'll steal the show as Aquaman come November.
https://youtu.be/zL7SobTAnuQ
Here is a new picture of Batman, Wonder Woman and the Flash posing together.
(https://i0.wp.com/ewedit.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/4561320000.jpg?crop=0px%2C202px%2C2400px%2C1598px&resize=2000%2C1333&ssl=1)
That's a pleasant surprise. I think it's possible a trailer of some sort gets released fairly soon.
Looks awesome! Less than a year away...
I think Batman is going to be very awesome in this. The behind the scenes video shows him grappling over massive distances for starters. I have no doubt we'll see the most impressive Batman on the big screen. BvS was just the start. After the whole 'this is too depressing' nonsense, Snyder will probably push the action component up to 11. Which I am completely okay with.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 21 Dec 2016, 09:31I think Batman is going to be very awesome in this. The behind the scenes video shows him grappling over massive distances for starters. I have no doubt we'll see the most impressive Batman on the big screen. BvS was just the start. After the whole 'this is too depressing' nonsense, Snyder will probably push the action component up to 11. Which I am completely okay with.
Snyder hasn't let me down yet. And especially when it comes to Batman, he's got my full attention.
I've got an eye on the Flash too. I'm rather interested in seeing what happens with that character too.
I think Aquaman will be another character to watch. There's tons of potential with a water themed character.
Here is a brand new picture of the entire team, minus Superman.
(https://s30.postimg.org/irzn0pbsx/h_Cp_DBq2.jpg)
Looks good. They're on board Batman's new flying vehicle.
New photo looks great. I already love what they've done with Batman and WW, so I'm excited to see how everyone else is. Can't wait to see Flash in action.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 9 Jan 2017, 05:04Here is a brand new picture of the entire team, minus Superman.
That appears to be a matter of severe consternation among Superman fans. I mean, it's almost like they didn't see the ending of BVS or something, I dunno...
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 10 Jan 2017, 19:42
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 9 Jan 2017, 05:04Here is a brand new picture of the entire team, minus Superman.
That appears to be a matter of severe consternation among Superman fans. I mean, it's almost like they didn't see the ending of BVS or something, I dunno...
Well, a lot of them think BvS was about Snyder's hatred for Superman as a character, so I'm not surprised. ::)
In JL-related news, David Goyer is going to co-write the script for the new Green Lantern movie.
What do people think of this? While I can describe Goyer as somebody who can, at best, come up with interesting ideas sometimes, I was hoping for somebody else because I find Goyer hit-or-miss. Plus, I'm still baffled by the anti-Martian Manhunter comments he made a few years ago, but now he's going to contribute making something as completely outlandish as Green Lantern.
I will say Goyer is an odd choice. If MOS and BB are anything to go by, his instinct seems to be a grounded take on the material. And maybe you can get by with that when it comes Batman and Superman but I don't know how well that policy will work with Green Lantern.
Here's my rough guess about the film's outline based on what we know.
I'm taking creative license on a few points. But here we go:
A flashback centring on the motherboxes.
Batman seeks out Flash and Aquaman.
Wonder Woman seeks out Cyborg.
The group eventually forms and meet Gordon on the Gotham rooftop.
Gordon tells them about the Parademons on Stryker's Island and the missing scientists.
The League takes on the Parademons from within the Flying Fox.
They suffer a loss, and regroup back in the batcave.
Steppenwolf is close to dominating Gotham/Metropolis and prepares his endgame.
Lex is released from Arkham, 'proving' he was of an unsound mind/mind controlled.
To redeem himself, Lex says he can possibly bring Superman back via the scout ship.
Superman is resurrected.
Superman, in the black suit, joins the League and defeats Steppenwolf.
Batman and Superman shake hands finally, with a friendship now solidified.
Superman addresses a joyous world in the red and blue costume.
Superman confronts Lex, thanking him but also putting him on notice.
Clark proposes to Lois at the Kent farm, who says yes.
An end scene with Bruce buying/establishing a hall of justice or watchtower.
The heroes commit to the League, but go their separate ways until the 'next time'.
How does that sound?
Sounds plausible to me. Is the rehabilitation of Lex Luthor part of your creative license?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 16 Jan 2017, 04:56
Sounds plausible to me. Is the rehabilitation of Lex Luthor part of your creative license?
Yes. However upon reflection, I'm not sure how that would play out, considering Clark's body is at the Kent farm. I'm guessing Lois becomes involved somehow.
Another close-up image of the team.
(https://s27.postimg.org/swbgsj05v/JLEmpire_Scan.jpg)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.themarysue.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F07%2FGalGadot-Badass2.gif&hash=58c1cf01878d950c4cf3d7b566945178f749d733)
Wonder Woman taking center stage.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F0617%2F07dc7286a7bc9375f68a00be0b48cbb8.jpg&hash=e3bf89560b87659b9c1135c0fd51d8922fe3c413)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F0617%2F62ee1a0c1ae098ad8afa813dbb6f10fe.jpg&hash=559340695b19eff4c028a27d8fbce7a5334d27e4)
Love it!
You know the picture of the Kents Snyder tweeted recently? I bet it's a flashback sequence that will depict when the Kents first found Clark as a baby. We haven't seen that sequence yet. It's not essential, but it would contrast really well with the Superman resurrection scenes.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 6 Feb 2017, 00:20
Love it!
You know the picture of the Kents Snyder tweeted recently? I bet it's a flashback sequence that will depict when the Kents first found Clark as a baby. We haven't seen that sequence yet. It's not essential, but it would contrast really well with the Superman resurrection scenes.
Snyder tweeted a new picture?
It wouldn't happen to be this one, would it?
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aceshowbiz.com%2Fimages%2Fstill%2Fman-of-steel-image04.jpg&hash=e6d0a73fdc0e6b6dc0c7830f4a20a41796754e50)
This was an unused promo pic for MOS.
No, this one.
(https://i0.wp.com/www.supermanhomepage.com/clickandbuilds/SupermanHomepage/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/IMG_2982.jpg)
The death of Superman was published in 1992 and these clothes did not appear in MoS.
New synopsis:
Quote
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4SIIwvUcAEto8w.jpg)
Interesting. It gives the broad flavor of the movie but carefully avoids specifics.
This is the hand we've been dealt. So I'll just say that I kind of like the idea of spending a movie assembling the team. The Marvel approach was using SHIELD as a sort of unifying element to bring the Avengers together. Batman serving as the ringleader to assemble the team and whip them into shape because of vague premonitions of what might be coming in the future will provide more than enough fodder to fill the movie's run time.
I can't knock the pacing they seem to be using.
The plot seems simple enough but with plenty of scope for greatness.
Batman forms the League, Superman inspires it.
The editors are putting together a fight scene involving Batman. Will this be Warehouse scene 2.0, or even better?
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn4.thr.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2F2017%2F02%2Fzack_snyder_vero_-_sm_-_h_2017.jpg&hash=ac8baa92ffe06ea8721b9dbe1cd94cdbdca50487)
Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/justice-league-batman-fight-scene-teased-editing-bay-photo-977109
Looks cool. Can't wait to see it in action.
New picture of the Batmobile.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FgZuHZFp.jpg&hash=d033043197caeca8575991018818f1aeda5e420f)
I love how Snyder doubled down by adding MORE guns to the vehicle. Parademon lives matter!
And there's also this new still of Gal:
(https://i2.wp.com/cdn.batman-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/17077350_386505141712375_9094246920297119744_n.jpg?quality=85&strip=info&ssl=1&w=800)
I guarantee that the next backlash over Batman will be him gunning down evil aliens trying to take over the world. And when that happens, I will smash my head on my desk in disbelief over people's incomprehensible stupidity.
My generic prediction is that Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash and Aquaman are on board the Flying Fox when they encounter a hive of Parademons. Batman gets in the heavily armed Batmobile, drives down the ramp and engages them - with the other members lending support.
Snyder is stepping down on finishing up JL due to his daughter committing suicide, and Joss Whedon is coming in to finish it up for him. Just a sad story. Hopefully he takes all the time he needs.
QuoteFollowing a heartbreaking personal tragedy, Zack Snyder and his wife Deborah Snyder are stepping down from production on Justice League. Warner Bros. confirms Marvel's The Avengers director Joss Whedon will finish the film, which is still on track for its November 2017 release date.
In an interview with The Hollywood Reporter, the Snyders announced Monday that they are taking time off from Justice League following the March suicide of his 20-year-old daughter Autumn. Though they originally felt like they could continue to complete the movie and didn't plan to take the news public, the Snyders have since decided to take time with their family to heal.
"In my mind, I thought it was a cathartic thing to go back to work, to just bury myself and see if that was way through it," Zack Snyder tells THR. "The demands of this job are pretty intense. It is all consuming. And in the last two months I've come to the realization ... I've decided to take a step back from the movie to be with my family, be with my kids, who really need me. They are all having a hard time. I'm having a hard time."
DC Extended Universe: Every Upcoming Movie
16 IMAGES
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Warner Bros. Pictures president Toby Emmerich says the studio stands behind the Snyders, saying, "What they are going through is unimaginable, and my heart -- our hearts -- go out to them." Warner Bros. first suggested pushing back the release of Justice League, but according to THR "the Snyders decided against that suggestion." WB extended Snyder a first-look deal to "give him time to work on other planned projects when he returns to work," THR reports.
Whedon will take over the post-production process for Snyder. Per THR, Snyder realized after screening a rough cut of Justice League to friends and filmmakers that he wanted to add additional scenes to the movie, and tapped Whedon to write them. Now Whedon will also direct the additional scenes in England.
"The directing is minimal and it has to adhere to the style and tone and the template that Zack set," Emmerich tells THR. "We're not introducing any new characters. It's the same characters in some new scenes. He's handing a baton to Joss but the course has really been set by Zack. I still believe that despite this tragedy, we'll still end up with a great movie."
In addition to notably directing Marvel's The Avengers and Avengers: Age of Ultron, Whedon already was attached to join the DC Extended Universe. He is slated to direct a big screen movie version of Batgirl, and recently shared he doesn't have an eye on a specific star yet.
Can Joss Whedon Do for DCEU What He Did for Marvel?
07:23
Following rumors that Justice League would be undergoing "massive reshoots," producer Charles Roven recently spoke with Collider about Justice League's post-production status, saying, "We're in the middle of it, and I think it's pretty common knowledge that we're going to be doing some additional photography. The complications of trying to, you know—Henry [Cavill]'s on Mission: Impossible, and our Aquaman is making Aquaman, Amy [Adams]' doing Sharper Objects [sic]—so everybody's busy, and it's that crazy Rubix cube of trying to find a way of getting everybody in the place to do the work that we need to do. Which is not that vast, the amount of work that we have to do, but it's still really complicated that everybody's in different places around the world.
"The reality is we are in the midst of trying to schedule the only additional photography that we've been trying to schedule. We haven't done any additional photography up to this point."
Justice League is still slated for its November 17, 2017 release date. IGN has reached out to Warner Bros. for additional comment.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/05/22/zack-snyder-exits-justice-league-after-family-tragedy-joss-whedon-to-finish-film (http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/05/22/zack-snyder-exits-justice-league-after-family-tragedy-joss-whedon-to-finish-film)
Horrible, horrible, horrible news. Prayers for them.
As a big fan of Zack Snyder this is tough news to hear. He needs to take care of himself first and foremost. Zack has already done so much for the film, and whatever happens next, it's still his. If the haters had any decency they'd lay off Zack and let him breathe as a mourning father. All the best Zack.
Damn, that's rough.
Thoughts and condolences go out to the Snyder's.
This is unspeakable. Suicide? I can't even imagine what they must be going through. Good on him for taking a leave from work. It's probably the best thing for both of them right now.
And good on Whedon for pitching in.
The fact Zack managed to keep working on the film during the past two months is incredible.
I read the news this morning while at work.
Horrible. I shocked Snyder tried to cope with his grief by going to work. He had every right to depart much earlier.
He explains why he had kept his daughter's death.
Quote
"Here's the thing, I never planned to make this public," he says. "I thought it would just be in the family, a private matter, our private sorrow that we would deal with. When it became obvious that I need to take a break, I knew there would be narratives created on the internet. They'll do what they do. The truth is ... I'm past caring about that kind of thing now."
The gut-wrenching thing from what he said is he is fully aware of the vitriol aimed at him, and how clickbait piles of garbage - whether it is Collider, Birth.Movies.Death, Comicbook.com etc - would do to spin this story as a negative. And they're still doing it - I saw on Twitter on some dump called Comic Book NOW! being screencapped for headling "Joss Whedon replaces Zack Snyder as director of Justice League!" - and used an undated picture of Whedon smiling. How f***ing low can you get?! Whatever one might think of Whedon, I'm sure he wouldn't be impressed with this either, considering Snyder made the call to bring him along.
Here's some words of advice from Snyder, you clickbaiting pieces of sh*t.
Quote
"I want the movie to be amazing, and I'm a fan, but that all pales pretty quickly in comparison," he says. "I know the fans are going to be worried about the movie, but there are seven other kids that need me. In the end, it's just a movie. It's a great movie. But it's just a movie."
Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/zack-snyder-steps-down-justice-league-deal-family-tragedy-1006455
Can't say anything other than I hope the Snyder family can cope with this tragedy as best as they possibly can.
Quote"Here's the thing, I never planned to make this public," he says. "I thought it would just be in the family, a private matter, our private sorrow that we would deal with. When it became obvious that I need to take a break, I knew there would be narratives created on the internet. They'll do what they do. The truth is ... I'm past caring about that kind of thing now."
This man is a champion. He has been bashed for a long time now, and the hate went beyond the movie. Clickbait BS and 'unnamed sources' didn't take Zack down and it's not going to. They can keep writing their crap, or lie about how sorry they are for him, but Zack will be busy looking after his family. Zack recently did promotion for Wonder Woman with this trauma on his mind, which goes to show his strength. Whedon is putting finishing touches on Zack's movie. This is absolutely Zack's movie and when I see it in November, I'm high likely going to give it and Snyder a round of applause.
Yes, keeping this tragedy private since March and still working.. He is a hero.
I hope Snyder's critics, of whom I include myself, will be a lot more measured from now on. It's okay to dislike a movie, but one can criticise entertainment in a much more reasonable and fair-minded way than was arguably the case with BvS.
I also apologise for my own personal prejudgements regarding the film. Although I still feel some of my criticisms were valid, having seen the film, I also now see that the film is much stronger and more compelling than I had feared. In other words, the good aspects of the film (most of the performances. particularly the three heroes, the visual style, the dynamics between Bruce/Batman and Clark/Superman, the dramatization of the world's response to an alien presence on Earth), of which there are many, manage to transcend the negatives (i.e. Lex Luthor, the moody/slightly humourless tone, the arguably unnecessary, if visually arresting, dream sequences).
I will only say in my defence, that whilst I was wrong to prejudge, none of my comments with respect to Snyder, were ever personal or vitriolic. That type of criticism is never acceptable, although in my own personal case, I already had much respect for Snyder on the basis of a few of his previous films that I like, including Watchmen, his Dawn of the Dead remake, and his much and unfairly maligned Sucker Punch.
Anyway, I hope those critics who were unnecessarily personal take a look at themselves and think again about the way they write about movies and the people involved with them.
Geeze, he even has to justify spending time with his family and grieving a child. I mean... no, there's no need to justify that. He should take all the time he needs and F anybody who doesn't like it.
I try not to be a misanthrope but people don't make it very easy.
I found a great article by somebody who denounces the lack of decency by degenerates taking pleasure in Snyder's departure from the film to grieve for his daughter, and his decision to cast Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman paved the way for some early overwhelming positive reviews for her performance in the upcoming solo film. BE WARNED: contains screenshots of unsavory, disgusting tweets by assholes making light of this tragedy, but it's necessary as it drives the author's point.
Source: http://www.screengeek.net/2017/05/23/mocking-zack-snyder-tragedy-makes-you-a-piece-of-sh*t/
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 24 May 2017, 11:29
I found a great article by somebody who denounces the lack of decency by degenerates taking pleasure in Snyder's departure from the film to grieve for his daughter, and his decision to cast Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman paved the way for some early overwhelming positive reviews for her performance in the upcoming solo film. BE WARNED: contains screenshots of unsavory, disgusting tweets by assholes making light of this tragedy, but it's necessary as it drives the author's point.
Source: http://www.screengeek.net/2017/05/23/mocking-zack-snyder-tragedy-makes-you-a-piece-of-sh*t/
Wow! These people are scum!
That said, it shouldn't surprise me. I've encountered such insensitivity, at best, and gleeful hate, at worst, before, and I could have counted on some of these trolls celebrating the news of Snyder's departure and even making light of suicide.
I don't think the ones simply saying "I'm not a fan of Snyder's films, but my heart goes out to him..." are so bad. I think their overall point is valid and acceptable (but just to be clear, I don't particularly agree, since I am a fan of some, albeit not all, of Snyder's films including Watchmen and even the much-maligned Sucker Punch). To me it's simply the timing that's the issue here. There is a time and place to say 'I'm not a fan of Snyder's films'. Commenting in relation to his daughter's suicide is NOT that time and place.
But the ones mocking Snyder with "You let them die" memes or celebrating his departure and suggesting he should never be allowed back into the DCEU, even after they've heard of the reason for his current decision to step away from shooting the rest of BvS, are vermin. Plain and simple.
Wow, just wow.. These are like coming from the "other" internet, where being trash is the norm.
As for the rest, yes, starting with "not a fan" while commenting on a tragedy is out of place. It's beside the point, nobody asked, you shouldn't comment, does anyone think fake condolences acompanied by a "not a fan" disclaimer from nobodies over the internet mean anything to a grieving father?
Yeah, it's just sad now. I already saw Zack Snyder as a sympathetic figure, but this latest saga has taken things to a whole other level. The detractors have overplayed their hand. If being hired by a studio to direct a film and adding your own flair is a crime, then Zack Snyder is guilty. He made BvS in good faith and it wasn't to everyone's taste. That's fine, but where does the hounding end? His daughter committed suicide and these people are celebrating that he's off the film? I mean, really? That's as low as things get. This treatment has only strengthened my loyalty to Zack.
Legitimate criticism of art/entertainment is perfectly reasonable, but the problem is that some of Snyder's detractors online, including professional critics, who should in theory known better, took things to personal levels (rather than criticising the film(s) they attacked Snyder as an individual). Of course, they weren't to know about the Snyder family's trauma, but that's the whole point. One can never know what a person is going through, and so it's important to maintain civility and to treat people reasonably, at all times (unless of course they are being uncivil and unreasonable themselves).
Snyder didn't deserve some of the personalised abuse he was receiving before the news of his daughter's suicide emerged, and he most certainly didn't deserve it in hindsight. What's worse is that some of these cretins are still doubling down on the hate. Clearly these people have no compassion, or are simply too clueless to understand the impact of such misanthropic trolling.
You know, it hit me the other day that I could overlook everything. Literally all else Snyder has ever done. If I hated every movie he's directed (which I don't), I could still put it out of mind.
For one reason.
The opening of BVS shows the best, most perfect, dare I say definitive version of the Wayne murders. Burton did great, Schumacher only showed us a glimpse, I'm not sure Nolan even got the point and I never even bothered watching Gotham so who knows what they did. But BVS? I don't need to see any other cinematic interpretation of the Wayne murders ever again. Snyder nailed it. It's perfect, operatic, epic and the music (Junkie XL?) perfectly captures the tone without going to the left or the right with it.
Even if everything Snyder ever did sucked (which it doesn't; much of it is good, some of it is great), the Wayne murder sequence in BVS redeems everything.
When that opening sequence started with the amazing visuals and the amazing soundtrack, I just knew the movie had serious promise. The RT score was in the back of my head, and I was thinking it all must turn to s*** after this. But that never happened.
The Snyder version of the Wayne murders is hands down the most powerful, and those added scenes in the UE make it even more confronting. When those bullet shells fell to theground, we were literally witnessing the birth of Batman. It was chill inducing stuff.
Plus, I appreciated how Snyder had Thomas Wayne attack the mugger. It's what happened in the original origin story and it was finally depicted in live action. With that opening scene, Snyder really showed he meant business. And the Metroplis attack from Bruce's perspective kept that momentum going.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 25 May 2017, 01:27Plus, I appreciated how Snyder had Thomas Wayne attack the mugger. It's what happened in the original origin story and it was finally depicted in live action. With that opening scene, Snyder really showed he meant business.
Good catch, actually. Usually Thomas is shown as a bit spineless. But Snyder showed him trying to protect his family. I hadn't realized how much I connected to that until you mentioned it. Nice one!
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 25 May 2017, 01:27And the Metroplis attack from Bruce's perspective kept that momentum going.
The thing about that whole sequence that works for me is how we see
NOTHING from Superman's point of view. All we see is things going to hell and Superman seemingly responsible for it. It immediately draws the viewer into Batman's point of view. Yeah,
WE know Superman was saving the world. But all Batman saw was buildings collapse and people die. That difference in perspective makes everything else in the movie believable for me.
Love that movie.
EDIT- There is a bit of an issue with Superman's rescue of Lois in Africa though. It's about 7,900 miles from Chicago to Kenya... which roughly approximates the distance from Metropolis to Nairomi, I guess. So it would take Superman a bit over an hour to fly that far...
and that's assuming he can fly at Mach 10. And maybe he can in the DCEU, I have no idea.
But that poses a challenge because the Nairomi scene seems like it plays out more or less in real time. So just a few minutes.
Small potatoes, really. And besides, maybe Superman was keeping an eye on Lois from afar over in Cairo or something so he could fly there relatively quickly even if his top speed is Mach 5. So there are way to No-Prize that. I'm just saying that if we take that sequence at face value, the only logical conclusion is that Superman had to be nearby but out of sight to begin with in order to arrive on the scene so quickly... unless he can fly so fast that he sets the surrounding air on fire as he moves (which maybe he can do, I have no idea).
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 25 May 2017, 03:40
Good catch, actually. Usually Thomas is shown as a bit spineless. But Snyder showed him trying to protect his family. I hadn't realized how much I connected to that until you mentioned it. Nice one!
Yep. I've seen others complain about this touch, saying it made Thomas look like a violent man practically asking to be shot. I don't really agree, because the man is going to be shot in any case. If he has to die, dying as a protector of his family is a noble way to go. And it's from the original comic.
THE original comic. That gets a lot of points for me. Every other depiction of the murders has been a deviation from the original. Snyder just presented the sequence as it was originally intended, with TDK Returns influences.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 25 May 2017, 03:40
The thing about that whole sequence that works for me is how we see NOTHING from Superman's point of view. All we see is things going to hell and Superman seemingly responsible for it. It immediately draws the viewer into Batman's point of view. Yeah, WE know Superman was saving the world. But all Batman saw was buildings collapse and people die. That difference in perspective makes everything else in the movie believable for me.
Ending the sequence with the little girl sold it to me. The death of millions is a statistic. The death of a single person is a tragedy. Bruce connects to the girl's loss. That's when it became really personal. He looks up in the sky to see Superman and Zod, and it's as if he makes the vow right then and there.
If you haven't seen it already, watch this. It's a side by side real time comparison of the Metropolis scene in MoS and BvS. Watching this gave me a newfound appreciation of how it all matches up. I don't think they could've have done it any better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alUuXNVOal0
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 25 May 2017, 03:40
EDIT- There is a bit of an issue with Superman's rescue of Lois in Africa though. It's about 7,900 miles from Chicago to Kenya... which roughly approximates the distance from Metropolis to Nairomi, I guess. So it would take Superman a bit over an hour to fly that far... and that's assuming he can fly at Mach 10. And maybe he can in the DCEU, I have no idea.
I think it's within the realms of possibility he flew from Metropolis in a short space of time. Superman's first flight in Man of Steel had him flying around the world and then into space at very fast speeds. But I'm inclined to believe he was already in the general vicinity at the beginning of BvS. Lois' involvement in a very risky interview would mean he's going to be concerned. I'm guessing Superman flew down as soon as he suspected something was wrong. That's a better explanation in my opinion. He may have heard the gunshots, and that's what sparked his involvement.
Jett is saying that Whedon was brought in to salvage JL, because it was so bad. The guy has no class whatsoever.
QuoteSo, where is JUSTICE LEAGUE at right now? Well, we know that additional photography will be (or currently is) taking place under the helm of Joss Whedon. Based on all the turmoil surrounding this film for over a year now, it's hard to believe that the stuff that Whedon will shoot is nothing more than standard pick ups and what-not. No, they're trying to salvage this film.
And you know what? That's perfectly OK. If the changes that have been – and will be made in the near future – do indeed save this movie, then I'm all for it. Hell, there's even a chance that ALL of the aforementioned changes just might make the final product a damn good film.
http://www.batman-on-film.com/dc-comics-on-film_JUSTICE-LEAGUE_Roven-explains-Whedon_5-26-17.html (http://www.batman-on-film.com/dc-comics-on-film_JUSTICE-LEAGUE_Roven-explains-Whedon_5-26-17.html)
Quoteit's hard to believe that the stuff that Whedon will shoot is nothing more than standard pick ups and what-not. No, they're trying to salvage this film.
Is he really coming to this conclusion based on nothing but a hunch?
Where are the facts in journalism these days?
Where is the honor in journalism these days?
And don't get me started on the 'unnamed sources' crap either. We have actually gotten to the point where unnamed, unverifiable sources can literally say anything and the media treats it as fact. 'Unnamed sources' are the perfect cover to say anything you want. This is nothing but an opinion piece from Jett. He's typing his gut feel as fact.
Turmoil? Salvage the film? Just get a load of that language. The 'Joss Whedon made JL a good film' narrative is now in overdrive and that's what the likes of Jett will be spinning come November. I guess Joss Whedon shot all the footage we see in the trailer too. This guy would claim he's impartial, but he did proudly label himself Chris Nolan's butt kisser.
It's a question of time. Frankly, too much of the JL movie is baked in now. There's nowhere near enough time to change much of anything related to the film. You can do pickups and maybe insert a few scenes here and there. But basically the idea of changing all that much with the movie is out of the question. Frankly, I'd be amazed if Whedon does much more than reshoot a scene or three and supervise the final mixing of the soundtrack.
This isn't like stitching sh*t together in Windows Live Moviemaker. A ton of stuff (not least of which is money) goes into getting a movie into an editing suite these days.
Snyder is now in a no-win situation. If JL is legitimately awesome, Whedon gets all the credit. If JL is a train wreck, Snyder gets all the blame. And all this because he's trying to do right by his family!
I always think my opinion of Jett couldn't sink any lower. But then he goes and proves me wrong every time. That entire POS editorial is low, even for him.
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 26 May 2017, 19:02
Jett is saying that Whedon was brought in to salvage JL, because it was so bad. The guy has no class whatsoever.
I understand you want to prove that Jett is an utter scumbag, Travesty, but you shouldn't have paid any attention to the garbage he wrote.
The pathetic bastard resorted to clickbait because he's irrelevant. Let's not give any time of our day. With that said, yes, he's utter scum and no better than the pieces of sh*t who are overjoyed about Snyder leaving. Well the jokes on them because Snyder will still be credited for directing JL.
Clickbait-chasing bastards like comicbookmovie.com, Jett, ComicBook.com, Birth.Movies.Death and so on, are deplorable scum. I hold them in the highest levels of contempt.
Well, to brighten up the mood, here are fans paying tribute to Snyder following the news.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAdxncWWsAEE4Qu.jpg:large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAe15UvXgAQlEmt.jpg:large)
Source: https://twitter.com/hashtag/zacksnyder
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 27 May 2017, 03:07
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 26 May 2017, 19:02
Jett is saying that Whedon was brought in to salvage JL, because it was so bad. The guy has no class whatsoever.
I understand you want to prove that Jett is an utter scumbag, Travesty, but you shouldn't have paid any attention to the garbage he wrote.
The pathetic bastard resorted to clickbait because he's irrelevant. Let's not give any time of our day. With that said, yes, he's utter scum and no better than the pieces of sh*t who are overjoyed about Snyder leaving. Well the jokes on them because Snyder will still be credited for directing JL.
Clickbait-chasing bastards like comicbookmovie.com, Jett, ComicBook.com, Birth.Movies.Death and so on, are deplorable scum. I hold them in the highest levels of contempt.
Please don't attack other websites or their owners who are not here to speak for themselves - it goes against our site rules and I would ask you to respect that. Thanks.
Quote from: Paul (ral) on Sat, 27 May 2017, 16:52
Please don't attack other websites or their owners who are not here to speak for themselves - it goes against our site rules and I would ask you to respect that. Thanks.
Yeah, well if people like Jett had a conscience and an ounce of decency by respecting the fact that somebody's daughter died, instead of getting excited over a film director's departure because of those news AND then make tasteless rumours based on those news, I wouldn't have started that foul-mouthed rant against them in the first place. I have no respect for such ghoulish behaviour.
In any case, I won't be giving them any more attention to desecrate this forum, and I encourage everybody else to do the same.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 27 May 2017, 02:31
It's a question of time. Frankly, too much of the JL movie is baked in now. There's nowhere near enough time to change much of anything related to the film. You can do pickups and maybe insert a few scenes here and there. But basically the idea of changing all that much with the movie is out of the question. Frankly, I'd be amazed if Whedon does much more than reshoot a scene or three and supervise the final mixing of the soundtrack.
Basically. A lot of the film has already been shot. It's the equivalent of baking a cake, someone else removing it from the oven, maybe adding a little extra cream and then serving it.
Ordinarily I'd 100% agree with Ral about badmouthing other sites/site owners, and I do think we should refrain from using particularly inflammatory and nasty language. But I must say, I am disgusted by Jett's comments. Bearing in mind the tragic reason for Zack's departure from Justice League, it is frankly offensive of the likes of Jett to rubbish him and talk of 'salvaging' his work. It is a deeply insensitive and shallow statement to make in light of what Zack and Deborah Snyder have been dealing with recently.
Wait, what? Danny Elfman is now scoring Justice League.
Yeah, apparently he's scoring it, and it seems people are upset about it. I guess they see this as WB trying to fix a broken movie again?
I dunno, it's getting downright exhausting talking about this movie now.
That's unfortunate. But Elfman has demonstrated the ability to work within a pre-existing style and color inside the lines. There's no reason to think the existing DCEU musical themes will be tossed out.
There is a possibility that the Elfman Batman theme might make a comeback though. Playing that against Junkie XL's Batman themes could be pretty awesome.
Warner Brothers did say Whedon would film new scenes, and they'd match the tone Snyder already established. I'll take them at their word for now. I'm guessing Elfman will be scoring those additional scenes, while respecting the musical themes that have already been established. I think people elsewhere need to chill the F out.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 15 Jun 2017, 01:42Warner Brothers did say Whedon would film new scenes, and they'd match the tone Snyder already established. I'll take them at their word for now. I'm guessing Elfman will be scoring those additional scenes, while respecting the musical themes that have already been established. I think people elsewhere need to chill the F out.
I don't see the downside of Elfman scoring a movie that has Batman in it. If other people are losing their minds over it... well, that's their problem.
So Zimmer scored part of BVS. Now Elfman is scoring at least part of JL.
Say, anybody else wondering if Goldenthal might handle the musical chores for The Batman? :D
From The Hollywood Reporter:
Quote
Superman, Batman and now ... Elfman.
Danny Elfman is set to dole out the sweet sound of justice, coming on board to compose the score for Justice League, Warner Bros.' all-star superhero extravaganza, The Hollywood Reporter has learned.
The hiring comes just as additional photography, with director Joss Whedon standing in for Zack Snyder, for the movie gets underway in London. Whedon is overseeing the new shoot and postproduction work on Justice League after Snyder stepped aside to deal with a family tragedy.
Snyder had been working with Antonius Tom Holkenborg, aka Junkie XL, on the movie. Holkenborg, who scored Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice and counts movies like Mad Max: Fury Road and Deadpool among his credits, is now moving on to Tomb Raider, according to sources.
In a statement to THR, Holkenborg said, "As my mentor Hans Zimmer told me — you haven't made it in Hollywood as a composer until you get replaced on a project. So I guess finally graduated this week. It pains me to leave the project, but a big thanks to Zack for asking me to part of his vision, and I wish Danny, Joss and Warner Bros all the best with Justice League."
Elfman has some familiarity with coming in late on projects and with working with Whedon. He was brought on board in the later stages of making Whedon's 2015 superhero movie Avengers: Age of Ultron, adding to the music already written by Brian Tyler.
Elfman is one of the big names in the movie music field, known for his longtime work with director Tim Burton, early comic book movies Batman and Batman Returns, among them. He also worked with Sam Raimi on Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2, among the filmmaker's other titles.
This year, Elfman worked on Fifty Shades Darker and The Circle.
Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/justice-league-danny-elfman-compose-score-1013319
As much as I love Danny Elfman as a composer, I'm mixed about this news.
On one hand, I'm happy that he's returning to collaborate with WB/DC once again. But on the other hand, I can't help but feel it's very odd that he's replacing Junkie XL if he was Snyder's original choice. What I don't like about this news is the gossip mongers will spin this to demonstrate "Whedon is changing course" for the film. I've seen some fans on Twitter getting apprehensive about this news because it gives them the impression the rumours that Whedon is changing the film does have some merit after all. But then again, I've noticed a lot of these people actually don't like Elfman, so I wouldn't take them seriously.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 15 Jun 2017, 01:19
There is a possibility that the Elfman Batman theme might make a comeback though. Playing that against Junkie XL's Batman themes could be pretty awesome.
To be honest, I doubt - and hope - it doesn't happen. I love the Elfman theme as much as everybody else here, but that time has passed. That would be the equivalent to John Williams' Superman theme featuring with DCEU Superman. It doesn't fit. As great as those themes are, they don't have the be all, end all of the characters in live action.
Elfman was hired to do some additional score, like with Avengers 2. It's a coincidence that it's a movie with Batman in it, but no doubt "Elfman Returns" can get even the most jaded people of a certain niche (myself included) very-very excited. At least one subtle reference to his motif wouldn't be ruled out.
I'm fairly happy about the Elfman news. I haven't been too fond of Junkie XL's work as a composer. I know some people really like his stuff, but it's not my style.
New pic of Batman from JL.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftu9srvbirvvtmtukas5pbwd1ci5jb200.g00.superherohype.com%2Fg00%2F2_Zm9ydW1zLnN1cGVyaGVyb2h5cGUuY29t_%2FTU9SRVBIRVVTMTUkaHR0cDovL2kuaW1ndXIuY29tL0pLcUo3eEwuanBnP2kxMGMubWFyay5pbWFnZS50eXBl_%24%2F%24&hash=ad1b9c15f09e13229dd98d31df3faa7d415d9d46)
Nice shot. I see Zack is the one who shared it. I'm hoping he attends Comic-Con, and I think he probably will.
Don't know why the amount of official stills available is so small. BvS had only a handful (you were mostly seeing the same trailer screencaps posted over and over, not actual stills) and now with Justice League it's pretty much the same. Very few.
Compare to the Nolan era. The amount of official stills avaliable during the few months before The Dark Knight Rises came out was vast, and mostly hi-res (4000-6000px) too.
Same with Batman Begins and (especially) The Dark Knight.
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 27 Jun 2017, 21:10
New pic of Batman from JL.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftu9srvbirvvtmtukas5pbwd1ci5jb200.g00.superherohype.com%2Fg00%2F2_Zm9ydW1zLnN1cGVyaGVyb2h5cGUuY29t_%2FTU9SRVBIRVVTMTUkaHR0cDovL2kuaW1ndXIuY29tL0pLcUo3eEwuanBnP2kxMGMubWFyay5pbWFnZS50eXBl_%24%2F%24&hash=ad1b9c15f09e13229dd98d31df3faa7d415d9d46)
I thought we would see the BvS Batsuit one more time in JL. This is a great image. Reminds of Keaton's Batman wandering around the dark cathedral in B89.
Quote from: Azrael on Wed, 28 Jun 2017, 09:40Don't know why the amount of official stills available is so small. BvS had only a handful (you were mostly seeing the same trailer screencaps posted over and over, not actual stills) and now with Justice League it's pretty much the same. Very few.
Compare to the Nolan era. The amount of official stills avaliable during the few months before The Dark Knight Rises came out was vast, and mostly hi-res (4000-6000px) too.
Same with Batman Begins and (especially) The Dark Knight.
The trend in recent years has been toward clamping down on stuff and releasing things a bit closer to the release date. Once upon a time, a movie would be completely spoiled a year before it even came out. Movie studios wanted us to believe that's because stuff was leaked by insiders but mostly it was producers and marketing wonks releasing it. Spy pictures were about as rare then as they were back in the 80's. I could believe that the Star Wars prequels were legitimately leaked by unauthorized sources but those were mostly the exceptions to the rule.
But as I say, in more recent years these movie studios have begun scaling back the "leaks" and "spy reports" precisely to preserve as much mystery as possible. So I think that's what's going on with JL.
Here's a fine example of Justice League/Zack Snyder Derangement Syndrome mixed in with Marvel bias.
http://whatculture.com/comics/justice-league-9-biggest-mistakes-its-already-made
Check the comments people posted in response. They get it.
"Ugh fail article. Thank Zod you're not in charge of these decisions..."
"Whatculture just hates DC and if you watch there trailer reaction... there not interested in it at all."
"Oh, here's our weekly WhatCulture DC bash article."
"wow that was dumb."
"i see you are back to bashing the dceu again. must feel good to be back in familiar territory i guess."
"haha pathetic."
"These aren't mistakes, these are just bitches and complaints from the writer"
"you havent even seen the GD film and your trashing it already. "
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 29 Jun 2017, 07:27
Here's a fine example of Justice League/Zack Snyder Derangement Syndrome mixed in with Marvel bias.
http://whatculture.com/comics/justice-league-9-biggest-mistakes-its-already-made
It's quite typical, considering the URL address.
The people who run WhatCulture are nothing but pathetic, clickbait-chasing swines who jump on the bandwagon, and enjoy trying to provoke outrage. They are just as bad as BuzzFeed. After all, both sites run listicles - the hacks.
They're also unprofessional and don't treat freelance writers very well.
http://mediareviewsfeaturesandmore.blogspot.com/2014/04/an-open-letter-to-what-culture.html
https://drayfish.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/thats-what-he-said-whatculture-australian-poetry-and-plagiarism/
It's really sad that there are film sites where the columnists really don't know anything about film and/or clearly go into movies trying to hate them. I've actually head that before from a movie blogger. "I wanted to hate it.." Why would you want to hate a movie?
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Thu, 29 Jun 2017, 15:17
It's really sad that there are film sites where the columnists really don't know anything about film and/or clearly go into movies trying to hate them. I've actually head that before from a movie blogger. "I wanted to hate it.." Why would you want to hate a movie?
Yep. Whenever there's an 'outrage' I remind myself that it's the same old tired voices saying the same old tired things.
For me, it comes down to one very simple fact:
I know Batman.
Sorry if that sounds dismissive to anybody else. But it's true. I've been a fan of the character for 75% of my life. I've read his comics, seen his movies, watched his TV shows, listened to his film scores.
I've studied the character, analyzed his psychiatric profile, savored various iterations of the character in comics, thrilled to non-comics interpretations of the character and even assembled my own imaginary Batman canon. A work in progress, a work of art, never to be completed.
I've collected his action figures, created Photoshop manips of Batman-related imagery I enjoy and even thrown in my two cents on gin-u-wine film commentary and critiques of various Batman movies. I've spent more time obsessing over Batman artists than was probably necessary. Or healthy.
What I'm saying is I KNOW this character. Highs and lows, ups and downs, warts and all. His best and his worst.
I don't claim exclusivity. It's not like I'm the first guy in history to love Batman. I'd never make that claim. But I have a fully formed view of the character. And I enjoy Snyder and Affleck's spin on the character. It's BATMAN in a way that no other interpretation of the character ever has been. Not definitive. But then, what is? Right?
And so what I'm saying is I don't need some hipster doofus who's watched The Dark Knight too many times telling me what's what when it comes to Batman. I KNOW Batman. If BVS/Affleck/Snyder passes muster with me, it's legit. People can love or hate the final product(s). But I say it's legit. That, dear friends, is BATMAN.
I guess I'm sorry if some hackjob writer with a boner for the ghost of Christian Bale is butt-hurt over that. But facts is facts.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 00:40
And so what I'm saying is I don't need some hipster doofus who's watched The Dark Knight too many times telling me what's what when it comes to Batman. I KNOW Batman. If BVS/Affleck/Snyder passes muster with me, it's legit. People can love or hate the final product(s). But I say it's legit. That, dear friends, is BATMAN.
I guess I'm sorry if some hackjob writer with a boner for the ghost of Christian Bale is butt-hurt over that. But facts is facts.
These hipster, sh*tgrinning "writers" are bandwagoners. It wouldn't surprise me if they're only pretending to be fans Bale/TDK because it's the popular thing to do. In other words, it's possible they don't really believe the sh*t they write, they're doing it for clicks.
The same can be said of these moronic geek YouTube channels like Collider. Some people like Jon Schnepp (who is only famous for directing the Superman Lives documentary) flip flops his opinion on BvS, by saying he hated the theatrical cut, then claiming to really like the Ultimate Edition...and then he pulled another 360 degree turn about the film, and how Snyder didn't get the characters. ::)
They're attention whores. Especially Collider. They're now hyping up Homecoming at the expense of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man, claiming they're too goofy and zany. Which is odd because so is Homecoming, from what I've seen.
Here's where my pet peeve comes in with a lot of these movie blogger types. You either hear a series of contrived nitpicks or they can't praise one movie without dogging another, making it less of a review for FILM A and more of a passive aggressive slant against FILM B. When I read such opinions, I can't help but imagine that maybe that person wasn't open-minded and went in wanting to find something, anything wrong with it and if they didn't, they'll make one up.
For me, it was quite clear that a lot of people were looking to find something wrong with MoS, BvS, and the DCUE in general before seeing these films and while I personally didn't like everything about MoS or BvS, I didn't think their flaws were that critical or prominent. For me, what is most important is my own personal experience with the film itself not how it compares to another experience entirely (i.e. BvS versus Nolan's versus Burtons versus the comics and so on) or other people's opinions for that matter.
And I get it. A lot of these people aren't really movie fans. They are gamers or comic book fans who just happen to like movies. They don't know much nor care about things like cinematography, score, editing, legitimate film history, and I bet if you sat them through a silent film, they'd balk at the idea, and to me, a person like that shouldn't be either a professional or wannabe film journalist.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 01:05They're attention whores. Especially Collider. They're now hyping up Homecoming at the expense of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man, claiming they're too goofy and zany. Which is odd because so is Homecoming, from what I've seen.
Not to split hairs over your point but... really? I mean, I remember people saying way back when that Spider-Man 2 is the greatest superhero sequel there's ever been, even better than Superman II (oddly enough).
And those Raimi movies are pretty formative for the stuff we're getting from Marvel Studios now. So if there must be a comparison, I'd say Raimi should probably do okay considering how similar in tone his movies are to Marvel's. It's a bizarre criticism.
Oh, wait. Of course. They're hipsters chasing after clicks, views, likes and subscriptions...
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 01:50
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 01:05They're attention whores. Especially Collider. They're now hyping up Homecoming at the expense of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man, claiming they're too goofy and zany. Which is odd because so is Homecoming, from what I've seen.
Not to split hairs over your point but... really? I mean, I remember people saying way back when that Spider-Man 2 is the greatest superhero sequel there's ever been, even better than Superman II (oddly enough).
With Raimi's films, people seemed to turn on them after the third film. For more, the first two were enjoyable and the third one, for me, was very awkward. But one bad egg doesn't spoil the rest.
One thing I've noticed is that it seems like people are always trying hard to warp film history. You see that a lot in "All Hollywood makes is superhero films" articles which act like genre trends have never existed before (Westerns, anyone?) and that their favorite childhood films from "the good 'ole days" were never a part of such a system. I guess it's true what Stephen King once wrote in one of his novels: "When it comes to the past, everyone writes fiction."
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 01:50
A lot of these people aren't really movie fans. They are gamers or comic book fans who just happen to like movies. They don't know much nor care about things like cinematography, score, editing, legitimate film history, and I bet if you sat them through a silent film, they'd balk at the idea, and to me, a person like that shouldn't be either a professional or wannabe film journalist.
I even have to question their wisdom in comics knowledge because of their selective outrage about Batman killing in BvS, when he did it a lot in previous movies AND comics over the years. But I agree with you. As I said elsewhere, I'd love to see how they fare once Hollywood's superhero craving comes to an end.
Quote
With Raimi's films, people seemed to turn on them after the third film. For more, the first two were enjoyable and the third one, for me, was very awkward. But one bad egg doesn't spoil the rest.
One thing I've noticed is that it seems like people are always trying hard to warp film history.
I've seen writers crediting the MCU for starting the comic book craze. As if the X-Men and Spider-Man films (and even Blade), regardless of what anybody else thinks of them, didn't exist. So yes, they are revising history, just as Batman-on-Film does. And now I'm starting to see that for Spider-Man too.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 01:50
Oh, wait. Of course. They're hipsters chasing after clicks, views, likes and subscriptions...
Indeed. Which is why I don't watch Collider or pay attention to blogs or geek-related news anymore. And the worst part is, the more these idiots hype up and accept
anything that Marvel does, they're going to help bring the MCU to its downfall. We should be getting less films similar to Iron Man 2, and more stuff similar to The Winter Soldier right now. But that's not going to happen as long as people accept sub-standard stuff like GOTG2, and just emphasise how "fun" it is, instead of discussing the characters, plot, arc, themes etc. Assholes.
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 01:57With Raimi's films, people seemed to turn on them after the third film. For more, the first two were enjoyable and the third one, for me, was very awkward. But one bad egg doesn't spoil the rest.
I suppose. But I never saw what the hype was all about with the first one. I mean, yeah it was cool that we finally had a Spider-Man movie after all those years of trouble. But the end product was a little meh after the novelty wore off. I rather enjoy the second and third. Especially the third, which gets a bad rap if you ask me.
It's a weird criticism to me to accuse a Hollywood movie (which are often called creatively bankrupt) of having too many good characters, too many good stories, too many good ideas, etc.
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 01:57One thing I've noticed is that it seems like people are always trying hard to warp film history. You see that a lot in "All Hollywood makes is superhero films" articles which act like genre trends have never existed before (Westerns, anyone?) and that their favorite childhood films from "the good 'ole days" were never a part of that. I guess it's true what Stephen King once wrote in one of his novels: "When it comes to the past, everyone writes fiction."
It's sort of unavoidable because our views of things change over time. I enjoyed Batman Returns as a kid but it wasn't a favorite like B89 or BF were.
In fact, it probably wasn't until around the time Batman Begins came out that I rewatched BR and realized how awesome it is. I hadn't seen it in years up to then but the years had definitely been kind to it. At that time, the big winner was Elfman, whose score hit so much harder than I remembered on an emotional level.
On that some note, it took an even longer time for me to acknowledge that Superman II is a serious turd and Superman III has more brilliance going for it than anybody is ever likely to admit.
I don't mind people changing their views on something over time. We all do it. What irks me is someone sounding off as though they're some big authority on a character slamming on some movie or whatever when, in truth, they don't know Frank Miller's Daredevil from Joe Quesada's Daredevil. You know? It just bothers me, that's all I'm saying.
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 01:57
With Raimi's films, people seemed to turn on them after the third film. For more, the first two were enjoyable and the third one, for me, was very awkward. But one bad egg doesn't spoil the rest.
Honestly, if Raimi's trilogy was the only series of films ever made about Spider-Man, I'd be content with them. Nolan tried to create a beginning, middle and end for Batman, and in my opinion it didn't exactly work out. But Raimi? Wow. The franchise was going to continue, but nonetheless, what we have is a solid trilogy. Let's look at what we have
Peter starts out as a shy young nerd.
Peter is bitten by the spider and gains confidence.
Peter uses his powers selfishly and Uncle Ben dies.
Peter begins using his powers for the greater good.
Peter struggles to balance his real life with his superhero life.
Peter quits being Spider-Man.
Peter returns to being Spider-Man because he remembers what Ben said.
Peter finally gets to be with Mary Jane.
Peter loves the fact Spider-Man is loved by NYC.
Peter once again becomes selfish after the symbiote latches onto him.
Peter alienates MJ and realizes he has lost himself.
Peter removes the symbiote and returns to his old self.
Peter saves the day and attempts to reconcile with MJ.
We see the full arc of a young man becoming an adult crimefighter. He started out as a hated menace, and transitioned into a loved icon. The incident with the symbiote made sure the status quo of the public doubting Spider-Man returned, which is rather genius. And we end with Peter trying to woo MJ again. So as with the comics, the story continues and it all ends at the beginning.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 00:40
And so what I'm saying is I don't need some hipster doofus who's watched The Dark Knight too many times telling me what's what when it comes to Batman. I KNOW Batman. If BVS/Affleck/Snyder passes muster with me, it's legit. People can love or hate the final product(s). But I say it's legit. That, dear friends, is BATMAN.
I guess I'm sorry if some hackjob writer with a boner for the ghost of Christian Bale is butt-hurt over that. But facts is facts.
I know what you mean. For me to say I prefer Affleck over Keaton is a big deal. I don't say these kind of things lightly.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 01:50And those Raimi movies are pretty formative for the stuff we're getting from Marvel Studios now. So if there must be a comparison, I'd say Raimi should probably do okay considering how similar in tone his movies are to Marvel's. It's a bizarre criticism.
Not really. I mean, they're colorful like the Raimi movies. But Raimi had a very specific cheesy factor for his and that's something that I've only really seen TFA come close to. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean. Have a very great day!
God bless you all!
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 04:43Not really. I mean, they're colorful like the Raimi movies. But Raimi had a very specific cheesy factor for his and that's something that I've only really seen TFA come close to. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean.
Very true, the Marvel Studios movies are only slightly more cynical than the Raimi Spider-Man movies, you're right about that. I agree.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 03:27
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 01:57
With Raimi's films, people seemed to turn on them after the third film. For more, the first two were enjoyable and the third one, for me, was very awkward. But one bad egg doesn't spoil the rest.
Honestly, if Raimi's trilogy was the only series of films ever made about Spider-Man, I'd be content with them.
I do think Spider-Man 3 is the weakest in the Raimi trilogy, but it's not really a bad film. After all, it's much better than the MCU's worst offerings i.e. GOTG2 and Iron Man 2. Besides, I don't think the complaints about a dancing Peter Parker being too cheesy holds up as a legitimate complaint, if people can praise how fun it is for Star-Lord to challenge Ronan to a dance-off. Really, is the humour between the Raimi films worse than the MCU? That's debatable.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 28 Jun 2017, 10:55
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 27 Jun 2017, 21:10
New pic of Batman from JL.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftu9srvbirvvtmtukas5pbwd1ci5jb200.g00.superherohype.com%2Fg00%2F2_Zm9ydW1zLnN1cGVyaGVyb2h5cGUuY29t_%2FTU9SRVBIRVVTMTUkaHR0cDovL2kuaW1ndXIuY29tL0pLcUo3eEwuanBnP2kxMGMubWFyay5pbWFnZS50eXBl_%24%2F%24&hash=ad1b9c15f09e13229dd98d31df3faa7d415d9d46)
I thought we would see the BvS Batsuit one more time in JL. This is a great image. Reminds of Keaton's Batman wandering around the dark cathedral in B89.
I'm looking at that new picture of Batman again, and I think he might be wearing another different cowl than the one he wore in BvS.
That cowl has angry-looking wrinkles above his eyebrows. Compare that to the BvS cowl, which doesn't have that.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbatman-online.com%2Fimages%2F14533295805716.jpg&hash=e11c100df9b39fe10a1ba8823a7757065c802b1c)
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 2 Jul 2017, 01:31I do think Spider-Man 3 is the weakest in the Raimi trilogy, but it's not really a bad film. After all, it's much better than the MCU's worst offerings i.e. GOTG2 and Iron Man 2. Besides, I don't think the complaints about a dancing Peter Parker being too cheesy holds up as a legitimate complaint, if people can praise how fun it is for Star-Lord to challenge Ronan to a dance-off. Really, is the humour between the Raimi films worse than the MCU? That's debatable.
The Starlord dancing scene isn't cheesy. It's purposely a distraction to Ronan. Better than IM 2, sure. I can't see the better than GOTG 2. About the same level though, yeah.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 01:50
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 1 Jul 2017, 01:05They're attention whores. Especially Collider. They're now hyping up Homecoming at the expense of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man, claiming they're too goofy and zany. Which is odd because so is Homecoming, from what I've seen.
Not to split hairs over your point but... really? I mean, I remember people saying way back when that Spider-Man 2 is the greatest superhero sequel there's ever been, even better than Superman II (oddly enough).
And those Raimi movies are pretty formative for the stuff we're getting from Marvel Studios now. So if there must be a comparison, I'd say Raimi should probably do okay considering how similar in tone his movies are to Marvel's. It's a bizarre criticism.
Oh, wait. Of course. They're hipsters chasing after clicks, views, likes and subscriptions...
I'm glad people remember that Spider-man 2 was considered the best superhero film of all time when it was released in 2004. Then the following year Batman Begins came out and the Nolanites did what they normally do and tore it to shreds and once Spider-man 3 came out, it became easy to hate on Raimi. Once the amazing spider-man came out in 2012, many fans gravitated towards Webb. Had Raimi and Maguire never made the third film or had they made a fourth film better received, spidey 2 likely would be held in higher esteem now.
I remember Spider-man 2 was on the top 250 list of the IMDB. Currently it sits at 7.3 only slightly higher than the first Amazing spider-man
With respect to Elfman, I love it. Some may disagree but I feel he's never done a bad score. It does seem like WB is giving each hero their own score similar to what the Adam West Batman series did with their villains. Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad released far better directors cuts than actual films so I certainly wouldn't criticize them for fixing the movie BEFORE it was released and honestly given the Snyder tragedy, people should lighten up and give them a chance to pick up the pieces. I for one think they're doing an admirable job making the best of it and they are demonstrating that they are at least trying to please the fans.
Quote from: riddler on Wed, 5 Jul 2017, 03:32
It does seem like WB is giving each hero their own score similar to what the Adam West Batman series did with their villains.
Yes, but that isn't a new thing or exclusive to the West show.
Quote from: riddler on Wed, 5 Jul 2017, 03:32
Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad released far better directors cuts than actual films
With all due respect, the BvS directors cut
is the actual film. They didn't fix the film per se, they merely presented the film as it really is. Releasing the edited version is a failing of the studio, not Snyder.
Quote from: riddler on Wed, 5 Jul 2017, 03:32
so I certainly wouldn't criticize them for fixing the movie BEFORE it was released and honestly given the Snyder tragedy, people should lighten up and give them a chance to pick up the pieces.
Pick up the pieces? Fix the movie? You haven't bought into the idea the film is a mess have you?
Additional scenes are being shot, and they will be added to the content Snyder already filmed. They said the scenes will blend with the tone Snyder has already established, and I'm sure I read that Snyder OK'ed those scenes as well. I don't see how a studio can reshoot an entire film in two/three months. That idea is nonsense, therefore I take the studio at their word.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 5 Jul 2017, 03:53
Quote from: riddler on Wed, 5 Jul 2017, 03:32
It does seem like WB is giving each hero their own score similar to what the Adam West Batman series did with their villains.
Yes, but that isn't a new thing or exclusive to the West show.
Quote from: riddler on Wed, 5 Jul 2017, 03:32
Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad released far better directors cuts than actual films
With all due respect, the BvS directors cut is the actual film. They didn't fix the film per se, they merely presented the film as it really is. Releasing the edited version is a failing of the studio, not Snyder.
Quote from: riddler on Wed, 5 Jul 2017, 03:32
so I certainly wouldn't criticize them for fixing the movie BEFORE it was released and honestly given the Snyder tragedy, people should lighten up and give them a chance to pick up the pieces.
Pick up the pieces? Fix the movie? You haven't bought into the idea the film is a mess have you?
Additional scenes are being shot, and they will be added to the content Snyder already filmed. They said the scenes will blend with the tone Snyder has already established, and I'm sure I read that Snyder OK'ed those scenes as well. I don't see how a studio can reshoot an entire film in two/three months. That idea is nonsense, therefore I take the studio at their word.
Whichever semantics people would like to use, the bottom line is that the last two DCEU films to be released on home video had better Blu Ray versions than theatrical films. I am hoping for that trend to get bucked here.
And no I haven't bought into anything. I have never written a film off before seeing it myself. If Batman is in a film, I'm going to see it soon enough no matter what the box office or critics say.
It sucks the Snyder tragedy happened, it really does, I'm not sure what people criticizing Wheadon and Elfman being added are hoping for? DC to have released the film as is or blow it up and start over?
Quote from: riddler on Wed, 5 Jul 2017, 03:32
I'm glad people remember that Spider-man 2 was considered the best superhero film of all time when it was released in 2004.
For me at least, it probably still is the best.
Quote from: riddler on Wed, 5 Jul 2017, 03:32I remember Spider-man 2 was on the top 250 list of the IMDB. Currently it sits at 7.3 only slightly higher than the first Amazing spider-man.
That's an unfortunate trend that occurs whenever a property is rebooted. I remember the ratings for Raimi's Spider-Man films used to be a lot higher, but then all the Webb/Garfield fans went around rating them down in an effort to bolster the reboot. The same thing happened to the Chris Reeve Superman films back in 2013. Superman: The Movie (1978) – arguably the single most important superhero film of all time – presently has a rating of 7.3.
And don't get me started on what the Nolan fans did to Batman Returns.
I wouldn't take IMDB's Top 250 too seriously. It's run by shills who give a new movie an insanely high rating, and then it gets inherited by deadbeat fanboys looking to either amp up the score or bog it down - depending on their agenda. It's meaningless.
Besides, judging by the scumbags who made up most of the forums, IMDB was hardly a place that appealed to the highest common denominator.
Quote from: riddler on Wed, 5 Jul 2017, 04:19Whichever semantics people would like to use, the bottom line is that the last two DCEU films to be released on home video had better Blu Ray versions than theatrical films. I am hoping for that trend to get bucked here.
And no I haven't bought into anything. I have never written a film off before seeing it myself. If Batman is in a film, I'm going to see it soon enough no matter what the box office or critics say.
It sucks the Snyder tragedy happened, it really does, I'm not sure what people criticizing Wheadon and Elfman being added are hoping for? DC to have released the film as is or blow it up and start over?
Not to pile on but tons of movies do reshoots. What a filmmaker thought he was shooting and what he in fact shot are often two very different things. Or maybe something needs to be clarified. Or maybe something needs to be eliminated. Reshoots aren't inherently negative -- or inherently positive. They just
are.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 5 Jul 2017, 21:51It's run by shills
Many of the members were shills too. And I mean that in a very literal sense. IMDB, at least at one time, had a lot of currency in Hollywood so they'd send paid flacks in there to pose as members and gab up certain movies.
I one time noticed that certain members would only start talking about a movie two or three months before its release and about three weeks after and then move on to something else, never to return. The exceptions were shaky stuff like Mission Impossible III, Superman Returns, Lady in the Water, Poseidon Adventure and other duds. They'd stick around those a bit longer, closer to a full month after their release. But eventually they'd move on from those too.
Nobody (and I do mean
NOBODY) does stuff that way. Hell, look at us! Many of us are still hanging around here waxing fanboy over Burton 25+ years later. But those IMDB members would only talk about certain movies during their PR cycles before moving on to whatever came next. And their comments were
ALWAYS positive ("Tons of fun!", slightly generic ("Getting tickets took longer than usual but no big deal"), always diplomatic ("You and I will just have to agree to disagree") and
ALWAYS G-rated ("One heck of a great time at the movies!". Never once did any of them use profanities or call another member a name or any of the other things that real people do online.
And I'm supposed to believe they weren't on someone's payroll? Puh-leez! IMDB was useless if you wanted meaty discussion.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 6 Jul 2017, 00:04
Not to pile on but tons of movies do reshoots. What a filmmaker thought he was shooting and what he in fact shot are often two very different things. Or maybe something needs to be clarified. Or maybe something needs to be eliminated. Reshoots aren't inherently negative -- or inherently positive. They just are.
Exactly right. Thor Ragnarok is reportedly undergoing reshoots right now, but you don't see the media fanning the warning signs now, do you?
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 6 Jul 2017, 11:02
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 6 Jul 2017, 00:04
Not to pile on but tons of movies do reshoots. What a filmmaker thought he was shooting and what he in fact shot are often two very different things. Or maybe something needs to be clarified. Or maybe something needs to be eliminated. Reshoots aren't inherently negative -- or inherently positive. They just are.
Exactly right. Thor Ragnarok is reportedly undergoing reshoots right now, but you don't see the media fanning the warning signs now, do you?
The expectations are far different though. Financially speaking, the MCU hasn't cranked out a bad movie, the most unprofitable one was the Incredible Hulk and even that wasn't a dud. Marvel will be forgiven way quicker if the next Thor movie doesn't pan out than DC/WB would be if they mess up the Justice League since aside from Wonder Women the DCEU has been underwhelming so far.
Quote from: riddler on Fri, 7 Jul 2017, 15:44
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 6 Jul 2017, 11:02
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 6 Jul 2017, 00:04
Not to pile on but tons of movies do reshoots. What a filmmaker thought he was shooting and what he in fact shot are often two very different things. Or maybe something needs to be clarified. Or maybe something needs to be eliminated. Reshoots aren't inherently negative -- or inherently positive. They just are.
Exactly right. Thor Ragnarok is reportedly undergoing reshoots right now, but you don't see the media fanning the warning signs now, do you?
The expectations are far different though. Financially speaking, the MCU hasn't cranked out a bad movie, the most unprofitable one was the Incredible Hulk and even that wasn't a dud. Marvel will be forgiven way quicker if the next Thor movie doesn't pan out than DC/WB would be if they mess up the Justice League since aside from Wonder Women the DCEU has been underwhelming so far.
Ah. We're back to this old canard, I see. Well, contrary to popular belief, the DCEU not only hasn't released an unsuccessful film yet but per capita the DCEU has actually been
more profitable than the MCU.
Why nobody chooses to acknowledge that, I have no idea. But there it is.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 7 Jul 2017, 18:01
Ah. We're back to this old canard, I see. Well, contrary to popular belief, the DCEU not only hasn't released an unsuccessful film yet but per capita the DCEU has actually been more profitable than the MCU.
Why nobody chooses to acknowledge that, I have no idea. But there it is.
Because people tend to confuse their subjective opinion about a film with financial results. If BvS doesn't reach a billion dollars for example, it failed, they say. Well, one can say whatever they want about the film, but I find that claim misleading. Justice League would've been completely overhauled if BvS's gross revenue was that bad i.e. not letting Zack Snyder direct it and delaying the film's release.
But let's remember that box office is certainly not a reliable parameter to judge quality. For example, The Winter Soldier was the MCU's last truly great film, and it grossed $714 million worldwide. That's certainly big money, but it should've made a hell of a lot more. Whereas much inferior films like Age of Ultron and Civil War out-grossed it. Even Suicide Squad out-grossed TWS, if I'm not mistaken.
Besides, if the MCU keeps producing trash like GOTG2, it's only a matter of time before they get bitten in the ass.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 7 Jul 2017, 18:01
Ah. We're back to this old canard, I see. Well, contrary to popular belief, the DCEU not only hasn't released an unsuccessful film yet but per capita the DCEU has actually been more profitable than the MCU.
Why nobody chooses to acknowledge that, I have no idea. But there it is.
Yep. Gotta spin the story as a negative to the DCEU at all costs man!
But...but....DC used more popular characters than Marvel to launch their universe! They started with Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman....whereas Marvel launched with lesser known characters like Iron Man!
Money is money, and the DCEU is making more of it at this stage in comparison to Marvel. Period.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 7 Jul 2017, 18:01Ah. We're back to this old canard, I see. Well, contrary to popular belief, the DCEU not only hasn't released an unsuccessful film yet but per capita the DCEU has actually been more profitable than the MCU.
Why nobody chooses to acknowledge that, I have no idea. But there it is.
Much like riddler said, there are different expectations. DC movies should be more profitable. But they're not as profitable as it should be.
1,920,000,001 to 2,994,000,001 is too close when the competition to the 2 biggest superheroes in mainstream media is... Iron Man, Thor and Hulk. By all standards, BvS should have beaten at least Iron Man 1&2 on its own. Have a very great day!
God bless you all!
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 8 Jul 2017, 02:03Yep. Gotta spin the story as a negative to the DCEU at all costs man!
But...but....DC used more popular characters than Marvel to launch their universe! They started with Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman....whereas Marvel launched with lesser known characters like Iron Man!
Money is money, and the DCEU is making more of it at this stage in comparison to Marvel. Period.
Of course it's going to do better. It would be silly otherwise. It should be doing better than what it's doing though.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sat, 8 Jul 2017, 02:20
Of course it's going to do better. It would be silly otherwise. It should be doing better than what it's doing though.
This is the negative spin you see, perfectly exemplified by the above post. Thanks for proving my point.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 8 Jul 2017, 02:37This is the negative spin you see, perfectly exemplified by the above post. Thanks for proving my point.
There's an odd desire present here to not admit the flaws of the DCEU. Have a very great day!
God bless you all!
There's an odd desire present from you not to admit the successes of the DCEU without giving a negative slant. You just can't say the DCEU is banking more cash than Marvel. You have to fidget around and say they should be making MORE money than what they are already making. I mean, c'mon.
Comic book movies generally make what they make, regardless of which characters are starring in them. Does DC have to make $1 billion plus for each movie to be considered a really big success? Because that's not going to happen on a regular basis anymore.
If a film makes a profit that's a win, and that's what has been happening for DC. But to sit around and whine that DC should be making more money....when they are already banking good money, is just sour grapes.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 8 Jul 2017, 03:29
There's an odd desire present from you not to admit the successes of the DCEU without giving a negative slant. You just can't say the DCEU is banking more cash than Marvel. You have to fidget around and say they should be making MORE money than what they are already making. I mean, c'mon.
Well, considering this is the same guy who says the Nolans are wrong when they acknowledge Batman broke his no-kill rule in the trilogy, what do you expect?
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 8 Jul 2017, 03:29There's an odd desire present from you not to admit the successes of the DCEU without giving a negative slant. You just can't say the DCEU is banking more cash than Marvel. You have to fidget around and say they should be making MORE money than what they are already making. I mean, c'mon.
Comic book movies generally make what they make, regardless of which characters are starring in them. Does DC have to make $1 billion plus for each movie to be considered a really big success? Because that's not going to happen on a regular basis anymore.
If a film makes a profit that's a win, and that's what has been happening for DC. But to sit around and whine that DC should be making more money....when they are already banking good money, is just sour grapes.
It's needless to ignore the problems of something. If it helps I could point out the problems of the MCU, but that doesn't seem relevant to the situation. I would change pretty much the majority of phase 2, the first Avengers movie and AOU. CA should be more gritty and war oriented. It's cheap otherwise. IM 2 is an empty movie. Thor is more like a TV Pilot than a movie and its story is lacking. Every movie, every movie, has a lacking. If someone's going to hide behind profit and ignore expectations, it's gonna be said.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 8 Jul 2017, 03:36Well, considering this is the same guy who says the Nolans are wrong when they acknowledge Batman broke his no-kill rule in the trilogy, what do you expect?
If you want to think Nolan's word matters when it contradicts the statement of the main character in the movie, be my guest. But Christopher Nolan doesn't walk on water. He's simply wrong here.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sat, 8 Jul 2017, 02:16Much like riddler said, there are different expectations. DC movies should be more profitable. But they're not as profitable as it should be.
According to whom?
And if past is prologue, Superman has been viewed as a box office risk for at least twenty five years. Batman has done really well at the movies in recent years, sure, but that hasn't been universal. And there was risk in rebooting the character considering how successful the Nolan version was. Wonder Woman was a completely unproven commodity until a few weeks ago.
WB started from behind the 8-ball in ways Marvel didn't have to and had limitations Marvel didn't. On balance, I think they've done pretty well on a creative level.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sat, 8 Jul 2017, 10:11
If someone's going to hide behind profit and ignore expectations, it's gonna be said.
How on Earth does the DCEU 'hide behind profit' when the profit aspect is either not reported or downplayed by people like you? There is NOWHERE for the DCEU to hide given the level of aggression and bias against it. Their case must be made because no-one else will make it, because they're too busy pointing at Rotten Tomato scores.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 8 Jul 2017, 14:55
According to whom?
And if past is prologue, Superman has been viewed as a box office risk for at least twenty five years. Batman has done really well at the movies in recent years, sure, but that hasn't been universal. And there was risk in rebooting the character considering how successful the Nolan version was. Wonder Woman was a completely unproven commodity until a few weeks ago.
WB started from behind the 8-ball in ways Marvel didn't have to and had limitations Marvel didn't. On balance, I think they've done pretty well on a creative level.
Agreed. BvS is one of the most hated comic book films by the 'know it all crowd'. But this quote nails everything for me: "I never wanted to be popular. I want to be significant. Significant people can become popular, popular people almost never become significant." Most Marvel films just come and go and don't challenge your senses in any real way. Snyder created something that will always drive debate. I know what I'd prefer.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 8 Jul 2017, 14:55According to whom?
And if past is prologue, Superman has been viewed as a box office risk for at least twenty five years. Batman has done really well at the movies in recent years, sure, but that hasn't been universal. And there was risk in rebooting the character considering how successful the Nolan version was. Wonder Woman was a completely unproven commodity until a few weeks ago.
WB started from behind the 8-ball in ways Marvel didn't have to and had limitations Marvel didn't. On balance, I think they've done pretty well on a creative level.
In all honesty, a Batman and Superman movie should have done better than it did. That's what I was talking about mainly. MOS did solid for it's starting point. That makes sense considering it's one of the better made DCEU movies, 2nd to WW from what I hear.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 9 Jul 2017, 02:03How on Earth does the DCEU 'hide behind profit' when the profit aspect is either not reported or downplayed by people like you? There is NOWHERE for the DCEU to hide given the level of aggression and bias against it. Their case must be made because no-one else will make it, because they're too busy pointing at Rotten Tomato scores.
The DCEU doesn't. In this particularly case the person defending it did. The sad truth is that many things make a profit that aren't good. Age Of Ultron Thor TDW and IM 3 made a profit and those certainly are the lesser of the MCU totem polls.
QuoteAgreed. BvS is one of the most hated comic book films by the 'know it all crowd'. But this quote nails everything for me: "I never wanted to be popular. I want to be significant. Significant people can become popular, popular people almost never become significant." Most Marvel films just come and go and don't challenge your senses in any real way. Snyder created something that will always drive debate. I know what I'd prefer.
It's funny, because that sounds like something a know it all would say. The conflict attachment to justify the fact that there's a split in fans regarding a movie isn't something I get. But it's certainly not the most hated cbm. That goes to something like Batman & Robin, unjustly. Have a very great day!
God bless you all!
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sun, 9 Jul 2017, 12:12
The DCEU doesn't. In this particularly case the person defending it did.
You will always see me defending the DCEU films, Suicide Squad to a lesser extent, on their creative merit. That's why I like them in the first place. To suggest I'm hiding behind profit alone is simply false. It's just an added bonus that the franchise is banking cash, because naturally that means the franchise continues. The issue I have is that the cash banking fact isn't emphasised by others, and when it is, sour grapes come into play.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sun, 9 Jul 2017, 12:12
The sad truth is that many things make a profit that aren't good. Age Of Ultron Thor TDW and IM 3 made a profit and those certainly are the lesser of the MCU totem polls.
Oh, here we go. The good old 'you must just like bad movies' routine.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sun, 9 Jul 2017, 12:12
It's funny, because that sounds like something a know it all would say.
Thanks for the laugh Mr. Holier Than Thou.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sun, 9 Jul 2017, 12:12
The conflict attachment to justify the fact that there's a split in fans regarding a movie isn't something I get.
Then that's your problem and not mine.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sun, 9 Jul 2017, 12:12
But it's certainly not the most hated cbm. That goes to something like Batman & Robin, unjustly.
I said it's one of the most hated comic books of all time, and I stand by that claim, even though the tide is turning.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 10 Jul 2017, 09:41You will always see me defending the DCEU films, Suicide Squad to a lesser extent, on their creative merit. That's why I like them in the first place. To suggest I'm hiding behind profit alone is simply false. It's just an added bonus that the franchise is banking cash, because naturally that means the franchise continues. The issue I have is that the cash banking fact isn't emphasised by others, and when it is, sour grapes come into play.
If you bring it up as a way to point to a movie's quality, it's hiding behind. More than anything the sour grapes are coming from the side who don't like that, according to them, a movie they like is "one of the most hated cbm of all time".
QuoteOh, here we go. The good old 'you must just like bad movies' routine.
Do you like those movies? You're allowed to. That's your God given free will.
QuoteThanks for the laugh Mr. Holier Than Thou.
That seems to be the pot calling the kettle black.
QuoteThen that's your problem and not mine.
My opinion isn't a problem in this regard.
QuoteI said it's one of the most hated comic books of all time, and I stand by that claim, even though the tide is turning.
Who cares if the tide turns? It won't make anything good or bad. Have a very great day!
God bless you all!
Never mind the DCEU it took until 2017 for DC/WB to meet their own expectations on a film not featuring superman or batman. We can argue whether MOS, BvS or SS are good films all day but none came anywhere close to the expectations DC themselves set. Compare that to Marvel starting out the MCU where the first four films out of the gate (Iron man 1 and 2, incredible hulk, and thor), all met expectations and all but the incredible hulk exceeded them. Now I respect the fac that DC is doing it differently than establishing a few heroes and then doing their ensemble film but the Justice League has a lot riding on it for this DCEU to turn out anywhere close to what Marvel did through phase one (nevermind what they're doing now, I didn't like GOTG2 and I'm going to see Spider-man homecoming tonight, I suspect I will either be very happy or have some bones to pick with Marvel in about 12 hours).
Overall I like what I see and hear from the JLA. The Snyder tragedy is awful, coming from someone who has had over a dozen suicide attempts themselves, I really feel everyone involved handled the Snyder situation as best as they could. Joss Whedon seems to be trying to finish what Snyder started and isn't turning it into his own project, I like that they seem to be lightening up the tone to have more fun, and hearing Danny Elfman sign on made my day. Aquaman seems to be turned into a legit character instead of a laughing stock but DC still has a lot of work to do. It's been brought up that at least their DCEU films have been profitable so far but I want to see how they handle smaller properties Aquaman, Cyborg, and Shazam before calling this a success. We had to wait until this year before seeing an acclaimed feature starring neither Batman or Superman, who knows how long we'll have to wait before DC gives us another one? Hopefully just a year before Aquaman comes but nothing is guaranteed.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sat, 8 Jul 2017, 10:11If someone's going to hide behind profit and ignore expectations, it's gonna be said.
Your expectations, right? I'm not sure what's so difficult for you to grasp about my argument about the variables concerning BVS and I'm honestly in no mood to relitigate that issue.
You're wrong. Simple as that.
As to appeal to authority vis a vis mentioning the movie's profit (of which there was a lot), that's an objective measure of success. The movie cost $X to produce. It grossed $Y in undeniable profit. Pointing that out is inconvenient to people who want to project flaws, failures and shortcomings BVS doesn't merit so I understand why you're eager to move away from that aspect of the discussion. But it doesn't change the facts (A) that you're wrong and (B) the movie was a box office success by definition.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 12 Jul 2017, 00:29Your expectations, right? I'm not sure what's so difficult for you to grasp about my argument about the variables concerning BVS and I'm honestly in no mood to relitigate that issue.
You're wrong. Simple as that.
As to appeal to authority vis a vis mentioning the movie's profit (of which there was a lot), that's an objective measure of success. The movie cost $X to produce. It grossed $Y in undeniable profit. Pointing that out is inconvenient to people who want to project flaws, failures and shortcomings BVS doesn't merit so I understand why you're eager to move away from that aspect of the discussion. But it doesn't change the facts (A) that you're wrong and (B) the movie was a box office success by definition.
Any money issues may BvS have is the least of its shortcomings. But that doesn't erase the fact that by all standards it should have done better. There are different expectations for different characters and they have no excuse because MOS did decently for itself. And BvS only got a couple hundred million more. That doesn't make the movie a failure, but it certainly doesn't make the movie a strong success. No matter what though, profit doesn't make any movie good. Those that try to use that as a defense for a movie aren't correct. Have a very great day!
God bless you all!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4IwOujzRiM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd2T2gi5Qiw
A new image has been released from the film, from a sequence we've already seen from the trailers:
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn3-www.comingsoon.net%2Fassets%2Fuploads%2Fgallery%2Fjustice-league%2F000259233hr.jpg&hash=285326aa427a05ee0bfb63fd00b0ebe773515ec4)
I prefer the BvS cowl, but that's not a major gripe. The suit still looks fantastic.
I liked Batman v Superman but let's call a spade a spade. The first ever movie featuring Batman and Superman together along with even Wonder Woman was at least a step behind Iron Man, the Avengers, Captain America 2 and 3, Guardians of the Galaxy, Deadpool, heck maybe even Ant-Man. Even if you enjoyed the film, you'd have to admit that given the stakes it was a let down to some extent.
Quote from: riddler on Fri, 14 Jul 2017, 04:24
I liked Batman v Superman but let's call a spade a spade. The first ever movie featuring Batman and Superman together along with even Wonder Woman was at least a step behind Iron Man, the Avengers, Captain America 2 and 3, Guardians of the Galaxy, Deadpool, heck maybe even Ant-Man. Even if you enjoyed the film, you'd have to admit that given the stakes it was a let down to some extent.
I'd rate IM1, Avengers, and TWS as the better films from that list. I think Civil War is overrated. I did enjoy Deadpool but I don't think I 'll ever watch it again. GOTG1 and Ant-Man were good, and much better than the crap Marvel has released so far this year. But even then, I think I prefer BvS than either of them. A ciascuno il suo.
Quote from: riddler on Fri, 14 Jul 2017, 04:24
I liked Batman v Superman but let's call a spade a spade.
I always do.
Quote from: riddler on Fri, 14 Jul 2017, 04:24
The first ever movie featuring Batman and Superman together along with even Wonder Woman was at least a step behind Iron Man, the Avengers, Captain America 2 and 3, Guardians of the Galaxy, Deadpool, heck maybe even Ant-Man.
Not from my point of view.
Quote from: riddler on Fri, 14 Jul 2017, 04:24
Even if you enjoyed the film, you'd have to admit that given the stakes it was a let down to some extent.
It actually exceeded my expectations, especially the UE. If I want a more cheery first encounter between the two characters I always have the DCAU World's Finest crossover. I'm glad they didn't simply repeat that and instead gave us something else. Snyder and WB had balls of steel to take the direction they did. They could've played it safe but they didn't. I think that should be applauded, not lambasted. To me it's not just another film that came and went.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 14 Jul 2017, 08:50
Quote from: riddler on Fri, 14 Jul 2017, 04:24
It actually exceeded my expectations, especially the UE. If I want a more cheery first encounter between the two characters I always have the DCAU World's Finest crossover. I'm glad they didn't simply repeat that and instead gave us something else. Snyder and WB had balls of steel to take the direction they did. They could've played it safe but they didn't. I think that should be applauded, not lambasted. To me it's not just another film that came and went.
Christopher Nolan isn't above criticism here did he not take risks? I just don't give movie a passes based on what they tried to do. Take the Ang Lee Hulk as a classic example, it was ambitious and TRIED to do things which hadn't been done before but the execution was poor and so was the film. I'm not calling BvS poor but some of these risks did not pay off such as turning Superman into a flying batman and making Gotham and Metropolis indistinguishable from each other. The Batman treatment is fine, I put Affleck just behind Keaton and Irons was an excellent Alfred. The superman handling though is where the movie suffers.
Quote from: riddler on Fri, 14 Jul 2017, 13:00
Christopher Nolan isn't above criticism here did he not take risks? I just don't give movie a passes based on what they tried to do. Take the Ang Lee Hulk as a classic example, it was ambitious and TRIED to do things which hadn't been done before but the execution was poor and so was the film. I'm not calling BvS poor but some of these risks did not pay off such as turning Superman into a flying batman and making Gotham and Metropolis indistinguishable from each other. The Batman treatment is fine, I put Affleck just behind Keaton and Irons was an excellent Alfred. The superman handling though is where the movie suffers.
I don't understand what you mean when you say Superman is a flying version of Batman. Superman faces multiple challenges such as coping with a divisive world, a paranoid and cruel Batman, and with Lex manipulating everyone in between. Batman is increasingly paranoid and convinced that Superman will go rogue, because of his experience that goodness keeps getting lost somewhere down the line. None of the Batman films had focused on how Bruce Wayne affects the world around him like Superman does in BvS.
Just because Superman is struggling in a broken world despite trying to do the right thing doesn't make him a Batman clone.
Quote from: riddler on Fri, 14 Jul 2017, 04:24I liked Batman v Superman but let's call a spade a spade. The first ever movie featuring Batman and Superman together along with even Wonder Woman was at least a step behind Iron Man, the Avengers, Captain America 2 and 3, Guardians of the Galaxy, Deadpool, heck maybe even Ant-Man. Even if you enjoyed the film, you'd have to admit that given the stakes it was a let down to some extent.
I disagree. The movie felt like a legit continuation of MOS. It gave clear and distinct arcs to Superman and Batman both. Both characters ended the movie in very different places (metaphorically and literally) than where they started. Both got exactly what they wanted... at the very moment that it didn't matter anymore.
Further, we see the conclusion of Wonder Woman's journey while her movie shows us the beginning so there's some clever storytelling there.
Subsequent films were set up perfectly. The future looks bright indeed for the DCEU.
Marvel's latest offerings have really left me cold. Maybe it's because they're reaching into a tier of characters about which I care nothing. Maybe it's because they've been far more overt with, ahem, obnoxious agendas. Or maybe it's because their supposed feature films look more like direct-to-TV movies while the DCEU so far seems
CINEMATIC. Maybe it's just that I'm a DC guy first and foremost.
But no matter what, the DCEU seems far more interesting to me. They've made some creative decisions I don't agree with but I at least understand why they've been made.
DC has always been the infinitely more interesting comic universe to me anyway. I'm relieved that it finally looks like DC's stable of characters and concepts will finally start being explored on the big screen.
Life is good.
A new image of the Steppenwolf toy gives us a clearer indication of what he'll look like.
(https://s13.postimg.org/iag8hbgl3/IMG_20170718_061103.jpg)
I like it.
I'm sure we see Aquaman dodging Steppenwolf's axe in the trailer.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFLdl4rU0AM3jq1.jpg:large)
My guess is that scene has to do with the missing scientists, or something Cyborg related.
Ezra Miller had this to say:
"In Diana and Bruce, you have two very different veteran mentalities. Wonder Woman has this powerful compassion. Bruce is more irritable, less tolerant. Barry's in total awe of them. He knows this is the big leagues."
Also, there's toy versions of the Nightcrawler and Flying Fox which showcase the designs more clearly.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFJfa3hVYAEACWd.jpg)
Gotta say, I like these. Especially the Flying Fox (the bottom picture) which strongly evokes the BTAS Batmobile. The Nightcrawler design isn't as streamlined, but given it can climb on walls I'm okay with that. I like how Snyder has expanded upon Batman's arsenal here. Very cool stuff. Batman is a character who should be toyetic. The gadgets and the vehicles are a huge part of the character's appeal.
A new trailer is due this weekend. Bring it on!
(https://s1.postimg.org/69ycywj8v/JLSDCC17_Banner.jpg)
(https://i.redd.it/xsxuxif8rbvy.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFWa5BJUMAQ0Z7_.jpg:orig)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_6yBZKj-eo
Wonder Woman had nice posters, but I like this one the most. It's visually striking and creative. If no other JL posters meet this standard, I won't be that upset now. Because this one is all I really need. But that said, hopefully WB maintains this standard. It's like a live-action painting as Silver Nemesis demonstrates with his comparison.
As for the new trailer itself?
You all know I was sold on this project since the beginning. But I'm loving how it's all shaping up. Snyder has raised his visual game if anything. Batman looking at the batsignal? Wow. Wonder Woman dodging a bullet and kicking ass? Hell yes. This is going to be a fan pleaser.
The fact we see Themyscira again straight after Wonder Woman does wonders for the DCEU's continuity. I like that flow. And you know what else I like? Steppenwolf. I feel a sense of dread with him, especially with Aquaman stating he may die, and Wonder Woman imploring them all to stay together as one unit. Which leads me to believe the big, bad Steppenwolf is going to take them all down....before Superman comes back to save the day.
As for Superman, I don't think they could've handled the marketing any better. He's mentioned by Bruce. Bruce looks at a Superman hologram. We see a Superman themed newspaper headline. League members look at the Superman memorial in Metropolis. That's more than enough. Looking back, revealing Doomsday in the BvS trailers was a huge mistake and they aren't going to do that with Superman.
To my eyes it's still a Snyder film. No question about that.
Ben said he's on board and thrilled to be Batman. That's enough for me. Comic Con was a win-win.
Holy. f***ing. sh*t.
I can't wait. Ugh but I've got to. Ugh but I don't want to. Ughhhhh.
Another good trailer. But from now on, I think I'll avoid any more new footage until the film comes out.
I like it appears that Alfred has more of a role this time around. I like his quip referring to the Penguin too.
If Batman has a part in resurrecting Superman, his path towards redemption is complete.
Edit: wrong thread
Quote from: Catwoman on Sun, 23 Jul 2017, 03:20
Holy. f***ing. sh*t.
I can't wait. Ugh but I've got to. Ugh but I don't want to. Ughhhhh.
I'm just as excited for this as I was with BvS.
Probably more so actually, because I now know how good Affleck and the team are. This is Snyder with his back up against the wall. If this is the last time he directs a DCEU film, I'm sure he will go out with a bang.
Back to the trailer itself, I like how they say there's a crime wave around the world and that Batman has been missing from Gotham. We all know why. He's been busy assembling the League, and obviously Superman is no longer around to protect the globe as a whole. I think the end message is definitely going to be Superman completes the team. As Alfred says, he hopes he's not too late. Which to me means the League fought admirably but they are going to lose.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFZmgk5XgAQwrKX.jpg:large)
Also, how about that Flash: Flashpoint announcement. Wow. Jeffrey Dean Morgan possibly returning but as the alternate universe Batman is a big deal. I'm up for it because it's something so different for the cinematic franchise. The recent Rebirth storyline focusing on this timeline was excellent and is well worth a read. In any case, I'm hoping they manage to tie this film in with the BvS Flash cameo somehow.
And for the hell of it, here's this GIF.
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/6f83ea328ad2777718f831eabcf728e0/tumblr_otih5hCePN1r2aobgo1_400.gif)
Has Batman ever looked any better?
I personally loved the trailer. Every single thing. I don't think there's one thing I disliked about it. It pumps me up for the movie, while also pumping me up for Aquaman, Flash, Batman, and WW2. I can't wait for more DC movies.
I'm stoked for it. Bring it on.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 23 Jul 2017, 16:21
Also, how about that Flash: Flashpoint announcement. Wow. Jeffrey Dean Morgan possibly returning but as the alternate universe Batman is a big deal. I'm up for it because it's something so different for the cinematic franchise. The recent Rebirth storyline focusing on this timeline was excellent and is well worth a read. In any case, I'm hoping they manage to tie this film in with the BvS Flash cameo somehow.
And for the hell of it, here's this GIF.
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/6f83ea328ad2777718f831eabcf728e0/tumblr_otih5hCePN1r2aobgo1_400.gif)
Has Batman ever looked any better?
The view a lot of Batman fans have had post-Nolan is Batman less as a superhero and more as a freestanding sci-fi character. Things like Flashpoint integrate Batman more completely into a shared comic book universe. On that basis, I approve of adapting Flashpoint. Though the entire point of the story is changing the past. So I have to wonder what (if anything) will be changed for the DCEU. Seems interesting no matter what though.
One thing that annoys me about the Flashpoint announcement is the clickbait scumbags will spin this as a rumour to reboot the DCEU. It wouldn't even surprise me if they still want to fuel bullsh*t rumours about casting changes. But on the bright side, we could get that touching scene where Bruce reads his father's letter as delivered by the Flash. Try ridiculing that scene, you pathetic clickbait-chasing wankers.
Back to the trailer, I like how Bruce emphasises Superman was an inspirational symbol to the world and the League appears to be founded based on his legacy. Of course, I saw some idiot naysayer on Twitter claiming Superman was a dick in the last two movies and thinks WB are treating the audience like idiots. Right, because Superman killing off the last remaining member of his own race to protect humanity and sacrificing himself to stop Doomsday that wins the respect of the divisive population, including Batman, is something that a dick would do. ::) What can I say, some people are just hopeless.
By the way, did anybody else pick up resemblance between the trailer music on 2:54 to the music during closing credits of MOS? Check it out on the track below on 2:40 and compare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpBnxR2zPWk
Another recurring visual cue that's carried over from BvS is the bullet casing. We saw it dropping on the ground after the Waynes were shot to death in the opening credits, and saw it falling after the military fires into the air during Superman's funeral. Now we see it falling again after the Batmobile appeared to fire one of the machine guns.
No disagreements with anyone here folks. Alfred and Gordon seem to be getting some decent screentime. One thing this is doing which the avengers didn't is showing heroes with different levels of experience. Diana has been Wonder Woman for over a century, Bruce has been Batman for 20 years, the other three are just starting out it seems. I am actually finding this flash might be more true to the character than the TV version. I like the show but Grant Gustin isn't as funny and quirky as the flash should be, it seems this new guy might be.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 23 Jul 2017, 20:43
The view a lot of Batman fans have had post-Nolan is Batman less as a superhero and more as a freestanding sci-fi character. Things like Flashpoint integrate Batman more completely into a shared comic book universe. On that basis, I approve of adapting Flashpoint.
Me too. I've been a fan of fantastical Batman for a while now, but the DCEU kicked it into another gear. Before Snyder I was more or less a 'Batman works alone' kind of guy. I was okay with fantastical elements, ala Burton, but wanted it to remain 'in house', so to speak. But now I've completely embraced the shared universe concept.
It makes Batman's world broader and opens up more possibilities. You just have to change your mindset a little bit. Batman is no longer the main focus of the world. He's just a part of it. The world actually belongs to the meta humans, and obviously, everyday humans like Bruce Wayne inhabit this same world as well.
Quote from: riddler on Mon, 24 Jul 2017, 13:51
One thing this is doing which the avengers didn't is showing heroes with different levels of experience. Diana has been Wonder Woman for over a century, Bruce has been Batman for 20 years, the other three are just starting out it seems.
Yep. I like that as well. It's been said before, but I like how each member has their own unique skillset. Minus Batman (who remains the best character anyway), these characters are all incredibly powerful as well. If an alien invasion happened tomorrow, I'd bet my life that Superman, Wonder Woman and Flash could stop it rather quickly.
Quote from: riddler on Mon, 24 Jul 2017, 13:51
I am actually finding this flash might be more true to the character than the TV version. I like the show but Grant Gustin isn't as funny and quirky as the flash should be, it seems this new guy might be.
It's weird, but for me, Ezra has completely owned this role on trailers alone in comparison to the TV show which has been running for a long time now. I din't think it would happen, but it has. Ezra seems to have genuine talent in the sense he's mostly channeling himself, ala Gal Gadot. He's the same man off screen as he is on screen. He's fun, full of energy and knows his stuff. He's not a dummy.
Quote from: riddler on Mon, 24 Jul 2017, 13:51
I am actually finding this flash might be more true to the character than the TV version. I like the show but Grant Gustin isn't as funny and quirky as the flash should be, it seems this new guy might be.
But Barry isn't funny or quirky in the comics either. If anything he's a bit of a square. A meticulous analytical workaholic who misses half his social engagements because he's putting in overtime at the crime lab. Based on what we've glimpsed so far, I'd say Miller more closely resembles the Wally West Kid Flash than Barry Allen. I also think both he and Gustin are a little young for the role. Barry should really be closer in age to Clark and Bruce. But I'll reserve judgement until I've seen the finished film.
I'm not sure how I feel about Flashpoint being the basis for his first movie. I like Flashpoint. It's a good story and I'd love to see it adapted at some point. But as his first solo outing? There are so many other classic stories they could start with. Why this one? How about first establishing the vendetta between the Flash and Reverse-Flash before leapfrogging straight to that vendetta's culmination. It's like what we were recently discussing in another thread about Death of Superman – some stories have to be earned. Flashpoint is one of them.
I think it might have been better to save this particular storyline for a future Justice League film. If the DCEU reaches a point where the actors are looking to move on (a situation which the MCU will likely face after the fourth Avengers film), then Flashpoint would've been the perfect vehicle to perform a soft reboot and introduce new actors in the roles. Instead they're using it now, right at the beginning. It just seems an odd choice to me. And I worry that Batman – even the Thomas Wayne version – will end up overshadowing the Flash in his own film. One of the reasons Wonder Woman was so satisfying was the absence of other heroes. It was Wonder Woman's movie and hers alone. I'd like the Flash to get the same treatment.
I'm confident about Matt Reeves' Batman movie, I'm confident about the Wonder Woman sequel, and I'm reasonably confident about James Wan's Aquaman film. But the Flash movie has got me a little worried and I'd be lying if I said otherwise. They've lost three directors in the last fifteen months and now they're rewriting the screenplay from scratch before they've even secured another director to handle the gig. A director should be involved in overseeing script development from the very beginning (hence why it was a good thing that Matt Reeves threw out the old Batman script). The Flash is my third favourite DC hero and I'd love to see him get a really great movie. But it shouldn't be this hard to get it right.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 26 Jul 2017, 13:00Me too. I've been a fan of fantastical Batman for a while now, but the DCEU kicked it into another gear. Before Snyder I was more or less a 'Batman works alone' kind of guy. I was okay with fantastical elements, ala Burton, but wanted it to remain 'in house', so to speak. But now I've completely embraced the shared universe concept.
It makes Batman's world broader and opens up more possibilities. You just have to change your mindset a little bit. Batman is no longer the main focus of the world. He's just a part of it. The world actually belongs to the meta humans, and obviously, everyday humans like Bruce Wayne inhabit this same world as well.
It was the logical way to go. We've seen solo Batman, Batman and Robin, dark Batman, light Batman, fantasy Batman and gritty realistic Batman. What we haven't seen in live action is a sci-fi Batman who exists in a wider universe of superheroes. That's exactly what the Affleck incarnation is delivering. Once this version of Batman is concluded, there's really nowhere else to go in theatrical terms except Batman Beyond.
I do agree with you SN on the basis that while Flashpoint is an excellent story, it is too early to set up and works better once the heroes are better established.