Batman-Online.com

It looks like they've finally cast the fourth member of the Defenders. According to Entertainment Weekly, Games of Thrones actor Finn Jones is playing Danny Rand in the upcoming Netflix show: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/25/finn-jones-iron-fist?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter


The Defenders miniseries should now be a lock for 2017.

Jessica Henwick and David Wenham have joined the cast as Colleen Wing and Harold Meachum respectively. Filming is well underway and numerous location pictures have appeared online. Thus far, it seems Danny's favouring the Dude look. But I'm sure his classic costume will appear eventually.


Nothing will top Daredevil for me, but I think Iron Fist has the best shot at second place on the superhero TV league table. It's looking good so far.

The BBFC has rated this '18', making it the second 18 certificate MCU show after Daredevil season 2. Expect delicious brutality. Here's the most recent trailer:

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 11 May  2016, 18:11
Thus far, it seems Danny's favouring the Dude look. But I'm sure his classic costume will appear eventually.

Show's what I know.  ::)

I've been concerned about the direction this series was heading in for a while now. It always seemed to lack the strong identity of the other Marvel Netflix shows, the lead actor didn't look like he was in the right shape for the role, and the showrunner really dampened my enthusiasm when he confirmed the classic comic book costume won't appear. And now the early reviews are coming in, and they're all saying it sucks. But I'm not sure how seriously to take some of these reviews when they contain criticism like the following:

QuoteBut Marvel's considered response was to instead show a privileged white guy mansplaining martial arts to a female Asian sensei (Jessica Henwick's Colleen Wing), and it's hard to believe that no-one found the optics of that troubling.

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-03-08/marvels-iron-fist-a-second-rate-daredevil-that-matches-the-low-expectations

I'll probably still check it out for myself, but it looks like this could be the first MCU production to get a 'rotten' rating on RT. The Marvel fans better get working on that petition...

MCU show featuring disabled hero = positive RT score

MCU show featuring female alcoholic heroine = positive RT score

MCU show featuring black ex-con hero = positive RT score

MCU show featuring straight white able-bodied male hero = negative RT score

How did we not see this coming? ;)

I finished watching this over a week ago. I wanted to take some time to think about it before posting my opinion, but even now my feelings remain mixed. Objectively speaking – taking into consideration writing, visual style and themes – I think it is the weakest of the Marvel Netflix shows. But subjectively speaking, I found it more enjoyable to watch than either Jessica Jones or Luke Cage. Maybe that's because it feels closer to Daredevil, or maybe it's because I like the martial arts content. Whatever the reason, I found Iron Fist to be far more watchable than the reviews led me to expect. (I disregard any critic who makes unironic politicised use of the following terms: 'mansplaining', 'cultural appropriation', 'white privilege', 'woke' or 'problematic'.) Here's my own non-political review (mild spoilers ahead).

Each of the previous three Marvel Netflix series was stylistically aligned with a different genre (crime drama, film noir, blaxploitation). Each series explored its own thematic preoccupations in considerable depth. And visually, each had its own signature colour palette conveyed through lighting, mise en scène and cinematography. Iron Fist is obviously meant to be a throwback to the kung fu movie genre, but it doesn't embrace or capitalise upon its cinematic lineage the way the other Netflix shows did with theirs. It also doesn't have much in the way of central themes to explore, and consequently feels rather shallow. The signature colour palette is based around yellows and greens, which is a little too similar to Luke Cage's golds and greens. So it also lacks a unique visual identity on top of everything else.

This last point is exacerbated by the absence of recognisable iconography from the comics. The most disappointing omission is of course the costume. A modified version of Daredevil's season 1 'vigilante suit' would have sufficed, but we don't even get that. We do get one brief glimpse of an earlier Iron Fist wearing the classic suit, but this is shown only fleetingly in the form of grainy black & white footage. Here's a behind-the-scenes photo of what the costume looks like:


I'm keeping my fingers crossed Danny will wear something like this in The Defenders. I understand the budgetary limitations might preclude depictions of K'un-Lun or Shou-Lao, but the costume shouldn't have been a problem. Even the Hand are visually downgraded in IF. In DD s2, they were badass undead ninjas sporting their classic red outfits from the comics. In IF, they're mostly just teenagers recruited from the streets of New York, similar to the Foot Clan in the 1990 TMNT film. But at least the Foot Clan wore ninja outfits, unlike these guys.

The boardroom drama with the Meachums didn't both me as much as it apparently did most other viewers, but I admit it drags at times. Considering this is a show about a man who acquires kung fu super powers after defeating a dragon in one-on-one combat, the emphasis on corporate bickering feels ill judged. The tone of the series as a whole is far too dry for the source material. Stylistically, I was expecting something more along the lines of the Kill Bill films, with affectionate visual and musical throwbacks to the martial arts cinema of yesteryear. But there's nothing like that in IF. There are one or two fight scenes utilising split screen composition, but that's about as close as the show gets to a retro kung fu aesthetic. The rest of the editing, I'm sorry to say, is decidedly 21st century. One 35-second fight scene in particular has already achieved online notoriety for its use of 56 separate cuts:


Compare that to the classic stairwell fight from Daredevil season 2, and the inferiority of IF's editing becomes even more obvious:


As for the choreography, it's a mixed bag. None of the fight scenes are as visceral, exciting or impressively coordinated as Philip J Silvera's work on DD. But there are some entertaining and well-staged skirmishes scattered throughout the season, particularly in the latter half. I think once Danny gets his mask they'll be able to make better use of a stunt double to handle his fight scenes, and that should lead to improvements.

As for Finn Jones, I'm not sure what to make of the guy. I was speaking to a friend the other day who is nearing the end of the series, and although she's enjoying it, she said Jones was too wet for the role. I kind of agree. He definitely lacks the physicality needed to play Danny. Not just in terms of martial arts skill, but also with regards to his physique. I appreciate Jones only had a few weeks to get in shape for the part, but then so did Charlie Cox for DD s1. Here's what Finn looked like:


And here's what Charlie looked like in DD s1:


Aside from the physical aspects of the character, I also had issues with the way he was written. Early on in the series he claims to have mastered self-control in centring his emotions, but later on he's throwing tantrums every five seconds. I guess that was supposed to signify that his mastery wasn't as comprehensive as he believed. But what about his motivation? He returns to New York to regain control of his company, then apparently loses all interest in that and instead becomes fixated on destroying the Hand. But since he didn't know the Hand were in New York when he first returned, why did he come back? And what exactly does it mean to 'destroy' the Hand? To drive them out of New York as Daredevil almost did? To defeat their leader? To kill every last member? To frustrate their plans to invade K'un-Lun? If the latter's the case, as it seems to be, then shouldn't he have stayed in K'un-Lun? I wish there'd been more clarification about what the hero's objective was. Without establishing a clear goal at the beginning of the series, the show deprived itself of a through line that might have tied together the disparate plot strands. And because of this the story meandered all over the place with little to no dramatic momentum.

In spite of all these criticisms, I didn't dislike Danny as a character. In fact there were times when I found his childlike naiveté quite endearing. I also liked Colleen Wing and thought she was a far more appealing character than Jessica Jones or Misty Knight. And while I wasn't mad on the Meachums' storyline overall, I thought David Wenham and Tom Pelphrey were excellent in their respective roles. Their messed up father-son relationship was one of the more compelling subplots throughout the series. Being a massive Daredevil fanboy, I also dug the way this show connected with Matt's adventures, particularly with regards to Madame Gao, the Hand and the storyline about the Steel Serpent heroine from DD s1.

In conclusion, I enjoyed Iron Fist for what it is. It has the same pacing issues that plagued the first seasons of Jessica Jones and Luke Cage, as well as numerous other shortcomings. But I don't think it's the complete disaster some are claiming. The problems can be fixed. The first thing I'd do would be to give Danny his classic comic book costume. That way a stuntman can handle the fight scenes and they can crank up the choreography a notch. Secondly, I'd amalgamate both Luke Cage and IF into a single Heroes for Hire show. These two characters work well together, and combing their storylines might help resolve some of the pacing issues. But until such changes are made, the MCU Iron Fist is just ok.

I'll read this thread and post my thoughts after I finish watching the show... which is taking a lot longer than it needs to because of some really retarded, aggravating reasons.

Denny O'Neil has written a short piece expressing his thoughts on the no-costume controversy:

http://www.comicmix.com/2017/03/30/dennis-oneil-iron-fist-and-the-costume-unseen/

To me this is the first misfire of the MCU. There really is nothing redeeming here. Finn Jones neither looks nor acts impressive and to me that poses a real problem. He's not a weak actor per se but the lead actor is always crucial in comic book adaptations and he merely held his own while the other 3 lead actors brought some real life to their characters. The villain is also the weakest of the bunch, so much so it's unclear at times who we should be rooting against.

The martial arts is really the only thing that stands out here. The 'back from being presumed dead' plots from Batman Begins, Iron Man, and Arrow is redone again and the typical clichee is followed of the hero resuming a business being run by someone else upon his return. The Danny/Joy relationship of childhood friends becoming female business tycoons and male super hero works better with Hal Jordan and Carol Ferris and the whole 'hero sacrificing money to do the right thing' clichee is taken so far here that it's hard to admire Danny for how much money he throws away for what he perceives to be noble causes due to the sheer stupidity of the things he does.


To me the biggest subplot lifted from other superhero films was the themes of the Hulk films, Dark Knight Rises and Iron Man 3 in which the hero is made as big of an underdog as possible by stripping him of every last thing he has and throwing every obstacle possible at him. This strategy works on film because it allows for a big payoff at the end but  we didn't get nearly enough payoff moments of seeing the hero triumph, Danny fails far more often than he succeeds just like his show. Comparisons are made to Daredevil but the final episode of

Sorry folks I've never said this about an MCU property but I hope this series doesn't get another season. I'm not saying it's totally unsalvagable but there's a considerable drop between this and the other shows, I think they'd be better suited grooming the Iron Fist into the incredible hulk of the defenders. Now that the character has been established in a solo outing, reserve him to the Defenders and/or appearances in the other series.

One positive though; Rosario Dawson is outstanding again here, she's definitely the Phil Coulson of the TV universe but I'm hoping they don't kill her off during the defenders because she brings some solid grounding to these series and she should be in all these series with the possible exception of Jessica Jones.

I love both seasons of Daredevil and also Jessica Jones.

I gave up on Luke Cage pretty early on because I just didn't give a crap.

But Iron Fist was greatly enjoyable for me. I chalk this up at least somewhat to my overall lack of attachment to Iron Fist in general.

I was fairly invested in goings on with the Meachams, Danny himself and whatsername's struggles to free herself from the Hand.

Way too much has been said about Finn Jones that's really out of line if you ask me. It's ridiculous what he's been subjected to. I enjoyed him in the role and his martial arts moves are why I think he was cast in spite of not being totally right physically. He can act well and his moves look elegant and properly balanced.

If you want to see martial arts moves done poorly, watch basically any episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, where Sarah Michelle Hottie and her stunt double both looked awkward, unbalanced and weak Say whatever you want about Jones but he (and his stunt double) don't have that problem. That counts for a lot with me.

I enjoyed Iron Fist and want a second season of it.

I was nervous going into Daredevil because I've got some attachment to that character. I was less nervous about Jessica Jones but even there I was a bit leery. But Iron Fist, perhaps because of my lack of expectations for it and utter disregard for Luke Cage, was a home run for me.

While it's not the worst thing ever as critics suggested, and the whole reaction towards Finn Jones is nothing but SJW nonsense, I thought the show was a cliche that wasn't that borrowed ideas from the first season of Arrow and Daredevil, but not as good. It was okay at best, but it's definitely the worst of the Netflix shows to date. Even though I wasn't too keen on Jessica Jones because I didn't find the lead character to be that sympathetic, I can't deny that show was superior to this. Plus, David Tennant's turn as Kilgrave was excellent.

I'm currently watching Luke Cage now. I think that's a much better show. I don't normally enjoy superhero fiction on screen treated as a crime drama, but this show does it tastefully well. Although I'm only four episodes in.

I forgot to mention: the fight between Danny Rand and a drunken guard for the Hand has gotten to be the funniest thing I've seen in a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCm645IJOYA

Far more amusing and creative than anything I saw in that atrocious Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2.

Well, I finished watching Luke Cage. Verdict: Half-good, half-kinda bad.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat,  6 May  2017, 17:11
I gave up on Luke Cage pretty early on because I just didn't give a crap.

Maybe just as well, I think you would've hated how it ended. As cliched Iron Fist's finale was, it didn't exactly leave me hollow as Luke Cage's finale did.

Overall I'd rank Daredevil as the best, following Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Iron Fist. Exactly how each show subsequently debuted.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 20 May  2017, 15:06
Well, I finished watching Luke Cage. Verdict: Half-good, half-kinda bad.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat,  6 May  2017, 17:11
I gave up on Luke Cage pretty early on because I just didn't give a crap.

Maybe just as well, I think you would've hated how it ended. As cliched Iron Fist's finale was, it didn't exactly leave me hollow as Luke Cage's finale did.

Overall I'd rank Daredevil as the best, following Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Iron Fist. Exactly how each show subsequently debuted.

That's exactly how I'd rank them too. Hopefully the trend reverses for the Defenders. I thought the best episode of Luke Cage was the second last. I know the last episode ties up some loose ends and likely introduces some future plot points but the real battle royale was the hostage situation at the theatre. The reason why I feel Luke Cage was stronger than Iron Fist was a second villain as well as a stronger lead.

Season 2 confirmed: http://www.cbr.com/netflix-iron-fist-season-2/

Misty Knight will be making an appearance. And based on Finn Jones' recent comments, it sounds like Danny might finally get his costume after The Defenders:

Quote
"The thing with all of these shows is not that we're shy to bring the costumes," Jones says. "It's that we want them to feel authentic when it does happen. Danny's on this journey to understanding what his responsibility is. And throughout all of [Iron Fist] season 1, he was in no state of mind to put a suit on. That would've been ridiculous because he was not fully accomplished as the Iron Fist yet and he certainly didn't have the right or the responsibility to be putting on a superhero costume. He needs to work his sh*t out. And certainly by the end of The Defenders, it will feel right."

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/the-defenders/266495/the-defenders-will-complete-iron-fist-origin-story

EDIT: Raven Metzner is confirmed to be replacing Scott Buck as showrunner on season 2: https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/marvel/iron_fist/iron-fist-sets-sleepy-hollow-and-falling-skies-raven-metzner-as-showrunner-for-season-2-a152725

Finn Jones says they're going to start filming season 2 in about four or five months:

Quote"Now, just gonna let you know, moving into Season 2 of Iron Fist, I'm actually starting my training next week," the actor confirmed in a recent interview. "We're at least four or five months away from shooting, so this time around, I'm being given a lot more preparation leading up to Season 2, which I think is really gonna have a huge improvement on the quality of the fight scenes in Iron Fist."

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/marvel/iron_fist/the-defenders-star-finn-jones-reveals-when-iron-fist-season-2-starts-shooting-and-promises-better-fight-scenes-a153425

I expect s2 is going to be a significant step up over the first. I know I said s1 would be great as well, but... we'll just pretend I didn't say that. We already saw a marked improvement in Danny during The Defenders and IF s2 has several other factors in its favour.

One of the biggest problems with the first season was Scott Buck's approach deemphasising the mystical kung-fu aspect and overemphasising the boardroom bickering side of things. But now Buck is busy working on The Inhumans and Raven Metzner is taking over as showrunner. I'm expecting significant changes.

Finn Jones has effectively stated Danny will get his costume in s2. It keeps getting brought up in every interview and you can feel the guy's frustration on the issue.

Quote"It will. And look, I'm not the writer for this show, nor am I the executive producer. So unfortunately these things don't fall on my head. But from an actor's distinct perspective, I certainly think that will happen within, hopefully, Season Two [...] And I certainly think, moving forward into season two, that superhero outfit would be something that Danny Rand finds extremely alluring, and cool, and after seeing Daredevil in his getup, I definitely think he may be persuaded to find one himself. What it looks like, who knows? I'd like to see a mashup of all of the kind of outfits."

http://www.cbr.com/defenders-finn-jones-iron-fist-interview/2/

At the 0:54 mark:


With all the backlash, I don't think they can put it off any longer. SPOILERS FOR THE DEFENDERS And with Iron Fist taking over from Matt as the protector of New York, now is the perfect time for him to follow Daredevil's example and don a mask. END SPOILERS The costume will allow better use of stunt doubles, which should mean improved fight scenes.

We're also going to have Misty Knight and Colleen Wing as the Daughters of the Dragon, and Misty SPOILERS FOR THE DEFENDERS will have her bionic arm. END SPOILERS So that should be cool. While I'm a little tired of heroes crossing over in movies, I don't have a problem with Luke showing up in IF. A TV show allows more time for that sort of thing, and it would be a tad strange if these guys didn't meet up considering they live in the same city.

S2 should have a better story and a stronger villain than the first season. Ideally they could bring back Davos as the Steel Serpent. He could blame Danny for the extermination of K'un-Lun and come after him seeking revenge. SPOILERS FOR THE DEFENDERS There are several members of the Hand still at large, including Elektra and the two surviving 'fingers', Madame Gao and Murakami (assuming they weren't killed when Midland Circle collapsed). They could put in an appearance as well. It's also been said IF s2 will expand upon the storyline about the dragon bones beneath New York. END SPOILERS So there's plenty of material there for interesting stories.

It should be good. Should.

Some new information from yesterday's Comic-Con panel.

Season 2 is getting a late summer release of September 7th. So less than two months to go.

Alice Eve is playing Typhoid Mary. They showed a scene of Typhoid fighting Colleen Wing and Misty Knight.

There will be more flashback scenes taking place in K'un-Lun.

One of the clips screened for the press showed both Danny and Davos wearing their masks from the comics. Here's a leaked picture of Davos wearing his.


The plot concerns Danny trying to fill the gap left by Daredevil as the protector of New York.

The editing and fight choreography during the action scenes is said to be vastly improved over season 1.

Here's a teaser:

Here's our first official pic of Alice Eve as Mary Walker.


She's got her twin blades alright, but she absolutely 100% has to have her signature makeup. This is nonnegotiable.


It wouldn't look unrealistic and it wouldn't be too expensive, so there's no excuse not to include it. And she needs to display her pyrokinetic, telekinetic and telepathic abilities. Typhoid has one of the most complex psychological profiles of any comic book supervillain. Two-Face only has two personalities; Typhoid's got four! They have to get that right.

The first season of Iron Fist was notorious for watering down the source material, but I won't tolerate that when it comes to Typhoid. If you're going to steal one of Daredevil's top foes, you have to at least portray her accurately. I don't know how they're going to handle her back story though, since in the comics it was Matt who caused Mary to become Typhoid after he accidentally knocked her out of a window.

Moving on, here's a picture of Danny wearing a mask. Just not the mask fans were hoping for.


Descriptions of the Comic-Con footage report he does wear his classic comic book mask during one fight scene, but supposedly it's just a flashback to K'un-Lun and he doesn't wear it throughout the rest of the season. I'm still holding out hope he'll get his costume, even if it's just in the final episode. I can't believe they'd take the character through two full seasons of his own series, one season of The Defenders, plus a guest appearance in Luke Cage season 2, and still not give him his costume. They must know this is a major sore point amongst fans.

Your earlier comment about the outfit and stunt doubles got me thinking. And then...

(https://i.redd.it/75hv54gyz3b11.jpg)

... when I saw that, I was about to jokingly post "Worst! Stunt double! Ever! Look, you can see his beard and everything!"

Yeah. The costume. Honestly, I was always prepared to look the other way on that. The outfit that's most well known from his comics is... well, it looks strange, put it that way. So if the move for IF was to eschew the costume entirely, I would've been willing to go along with that.

I do wonder that Finn Jones doesn't regret taking this part sometimes though. The insane reaction to season 1 is probably the exactly opposite of what he needed heading into Defenders. And now all this costume stuff people keep dumping on him... I mean, people, he's not Tom Welling, he's willing to do it. But it's not really his call.

Ugh.

Fans...

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 24 Jul  2018, 21:38The outfit that's most well known from his comics is... well, it looks strange, put it that way.

True, but I think they could make it work. If they were to translate the original Bronze Age costume into live action, complete with oversized collar and pumps...


...then yeah, that would look silly. But there have been revised designs in more recent comics that could work quite well. This one, for instance:


The TV series has already established that previous Iron Fists wore the costume, and now season 2 will show Danny himself wearing the mask in K'un-Lun. The season 2 pic showing Danny concealing his face, combined with the plot point about him taking over Daredevil's role as protector of New York, suggest Iron Fist now has a legitimate reason to conceal his true identity. All they need do is combine the historical Iron Fist costume we glimpsed in season 1 with Danny's outfit from the final scene of The Defenders...


...and the result would look something like this. Perfect.


If they did this, the show would instantly become more visually appealing, the fans would stop complaining about the lack of costume, and the stunt team would be able to bring in an experienced martial artist to double for Finn Jones, which would result in more impressive fight scenes. Most people seem to love Daredevil's black 'vigilante' costume, which really isn't all that dissimilar from the classic Iron Fist outfit.


At this stage, I can't think of a compelling reason not to just use the costume. It should never have been a point of controversy in the first place, and further fan backlash could easily be avoided if they just did it. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it wouldn't work. I'd just like to see them try.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 24 Jul  2018, 21:38I do wonder that Finn Jones doesn't regret taking this part sometimes though. The insane reaction to season 1 is probably the exactly opposite of what he needed heading into Defenders. And now all this costume stuff people keep dumping on him... I mean, people, he's not Tom Welling, he's willing to do it. But it's not really his call.

Ugh.

Fans...

I feel his frustration. He's said numerous times that he'd love to wear the costume. But as you say, it's not his call. Jones had been nothing but enthusiastic about the show since day one and you can tell he badly wants it to be a success.

I still haven't seen Luke Cage season 2, but I've heard a lot of positive things about Jones' guest appearance in it. The consensus online seems to be that they finally got the character right and that Danny is far more likeable than he was in IF season 1 or The Defenders. If they can keep that going, then season 2 should be an improvement. Based on the Comic-Con reports, it sounds like it has a lot of advantages over the first season:

•   New (better) showrunner
•   Better fight scenes
•   Better pacing from the reduced number of episodes
•   A stronger visual identity
•   A lead actor who's more comfortable in the title role
•   Better villains (Steel Serpent and Typhoid Mary)
•   The Daughters of the Dragon
•   The Iron Fist costume (fingers crossed)

I enjoyed the first season enough to give the second a chance. It's only six weeks away and I'm starting to look forward to it.

The episode titles for the second season have been revealed.

The use of store-front signs is kind of clever... and could suggest a bit of a comedown for Danny. Will he no longer be involved with Rand?

I expect they'll downplay the boardroom drama after the way fans reacted to it in the first season. And with the reports of Danny taking over Daredevil's role as the protector of New York, that should leave us with a lot more gritty street-level action.

The use of restaurant signs in the marketing makes me hopeful that this time they'll capture some of the retro kung fu atmosphere that was missing from season 1.

Iron Fist has been officially cancelled after two seasons.

Quote"Marvel's Iron Fist will not return for a third season on Netflix," said the Disney-owned comic giant and the streamer in a joint statement to Deadline today. "Everyone at Marvel Television and Netflix is proud of the series and grateful for all of the hard work from our incredible cast, crew and showrunners," Marvel and Netflix added. "We're thankful to the fans who have watched these two seasons, and for the partnership we've shared on this series. While the series on Netflix has ended, the immortal Iron Fist will live on."

https://deadline.com/2018/10/marvel-iron-fist-canceled-netflix-daredevil-disney-finn-jones-jessica-henwick-1202482048/

There are rumours the show might be retooled for Disney's new streaming service, or that Danny will return as a supporting character in Luke Cage season 3. But one thing's for sure – Iron Fist's Netflix series is over.

This is the first Marvel Netflix show to get the axe. It's a bit harsh that they're cancelling it barely a month after season 2's release date. It might have been more tactful to wait a while before making the announcement. I can't help feeling sorry for the cast and crew who worked so hard on the project. Finn Jones posted the following on Instagram:


I binge watched the second season the weekend it came out. I was going to post a review at the time, but never got around to it. Basically I thought it was better than season 1, but still deeply flawed. There are certain very obvious fixes they could have implemented to win back the fans, but for some reason the show's makers remained steadfastly averse to using them. They had two seasons to get it right (3 seasons if you count The Defenders, not to mention a guest appearance in Luke Cage season 2), so it's not as if the series was cut short before it had a chance to find its footing. The MCU Iron Fist appeared in 32 episodes altogether. That's not bad, all things considered. And the MCU is a big place, so I'm sure we'll be seeing these characters again at some point.

I regard this as bad news. It blows my mind that somehow Luke Cage makes the cut (I couldn't make it past the second episode of the first season) while Iron Fist gets dropped.

Oh well.

And it's not like Jones himself is out yet. He might have guest appearances and supporting roles. But considering what he's been through on this show combined with his solo show's cancellation, I doubt he'll stick around for the long haul.

Still, Marvel has launched and then cancelled Iron Fist comic books over the decades. So maybe there's a literary legacy which the MCU Iron Fist is living up to here. :D

I watched the second season shortly after finishing up with Daredevil. I suppose it was a little bit better than the first season. I have to give it credit for the improvement of Danny Rand's dialogue, and he no longer spoke in this goofy, mystical zen speak like he did in Season 1. I always thought his dialogue was overdone, and felt out of place with the rest of the other heroes in Defenders, so I was glad they ditched it. It confirmed my suspicions all along about Finn Jones, it's not that he's bad as the critics made him out to be. The dialogue did him no favours.

I thought the standout actor was Alice Eve as Mary/Walker. She was terrific, as was her storyline with her borderline personality disorder. I did like the ending of episode five or six where she and Rand had Davos incapacitated, but then she turns back into innocent and confused Mary when it began to rain; resulting Davos premature defeat a missed opportunity.

I had some criticisms like Davos was defeated in the final episode way too early, and I didn't care for Joy Meachum's plot. For all the criticism Trish Walker gets for selfishness in Jessica Jones Season 2, I thought Joy was too irrational. At least Trish Walker suffering from addiction makes her behaviour understandable. But I suppose it would've been fun to see Joy's mistakes coming back to haunt her every time as Walker manipulates her for her own needs. But the show's cancellation means we'll never know.

Pity. Despite I was never a huge fan of the show, I still would've been keen to see a third season. Like Luke Cage, it ended with so much unresolved.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 11 Dec  2018, 11:46I watched the second season shortly after finishing up with Daredevil. I suppose it was a little bit better than the first season.

Same. I went on the record early on lamenting the show's cancellation.

Looking back at it now though, the show's cancellation wasn't an execution; it was a mercy killing. Notwithstanding whatever other factors might've been at play with cancelling Iron Fist, the simple fact of the matter is that the second season started off on pretty strong terms but the wheels came completely off the wagon by the season (and series) finale, which isn't so much a story of its own as an episode comprised of a bunch of different endings and conclusions.

Seriously, did any of you think Return Of The King ended too many times? Just watch this season finale of Iron Fist and get back to me.

But it's fair to say that somebody somewhere lost the point before the finale was written. Now, there are certain realities inherent to working in Hollywood. There always have been and there always will be. In today's world, women must be written in a particular way. All women have to be strong, career-minded and no good at cooking. You can fight against that all you want but that's how things are. If you won't write that way, either you lose the gig or else your work will be rewritten by someone else.

The impression one gets in watching this season is that women are malicious, capricious and should never be expected to apologize or even explain their actions. And those qualities should not be considered negative in any way.

Ward took one hell of a bullet in hiding his father's existence from Joy. It COST him something to keep that secret. Cost him a lot of things, actually.

Ward's pain and sacrifices were not all for naught either. The Rand Corporation was eventually freed from the toxic control of The Hand. So some legitimately good things did come from all that.

But Joy acknowledges and accepts precisely none of it. Because having girl parts means you're always right. She treats Ward like an enemy even though his actions may very well have saved her life. The narrative point of view here seems to be that Ward's most admirable actions come from accepting Joy's point of view of him as a major league SOB even though Joy does far more damage to him than he ever did to her.

Ward is no angel but he made the best of a horrible situation in the first season. His decisions usually have a logical or at least a sympathetic aspect to them while the best you can say for Joy is that she's reckless at best, utterly heartless and disloyal to her own family at the worst.

Danny probably takes a bigger hit than anybody from Joy. "Betrayal" doesn't even begin to cover it.

All this is bad enough but both Ward and Danny bear Joy absolutely no ill will... even though her actions at different times could have gotten Danny, Ward and even Joy herself killed by any number of people any number of times. Joy is right, Joy is beautiful, Joy is perfect, Joy is justified. Even Ward's confrontation with Joy is framed primarily as Ward taking responsibility for ever driving Joy to such drastic measures.

Frankly, I don't think Ward is the one who should be apologizing here.

Colleen's arc this season is overall better than Joy's, not least because she does put aside her family issues to help Danny. In the context of this season, that's probably the most noble decision any woman makes on this show. But even she makes idiotic decisions about interjecting herself in the Triad wars when, in fact, those groups killing each other off is probably for the best. Their actions seemed targeted against each other, avoiding civilians as much as possible. There are worse ways to solve the Triad problem in the city than stepping aside and allowing them to finish each other off.

Davos, for as big an SOB as he might be, ultimately just wanted to use the power of the Iron Fist to protect the city. His mode of doing so was killing the Triads himself. This shows some character growth on his part. He's always envied Danny for becoming the Iron Fist. Then he resented Danny for abandoning Kunlun in order to return to New York. He has contempt for Danny's decision to use the power of the Iron Fist to protect New York.

But Davos puts every single one of those things aside and arguably does Danny's job more effectively than Danny himself did. I'm not saying Davos was in the right. Just saying that Davos was achieving real results in eliminating the Triads while also beginning to offer the lost youth a better path than the crime, drugs and other toxic things that they were heading toward.

In a certain sense, he was the better Iron Fist, though far more brutal. Something tells me that Iron Fists of previous eras didn't allow would-be attackers of Kunlun to survive to tell the tale. Davos doesn't seem like a radical departure from tradition.

Mary/Walker is probably the most interesting element of the season. She's a truly flawed person, she was weaknesses, she does horrible things because she's ultimately trying like hell to escape from a hellish existence. Walker has basically no conscience whatsoever. Walker is the dark side of Mary. Walker does terrible things in order to allow Mary to have a clean conscience. Mary can live her life somewhat as a Pollyanna because Walker will always be there to make the hard decisions.

The fascinating part is that Walker sees her own redemption in Mary's purity while Mary is fully aware of Walker's dark deeds. Neither side is completely pure... but neither side is completely evil either. Mary/Walker probably symbolizes the balance of yin-yang more than any other character. Truly fascinating and this season uses her well. It would've been interesting to see her return for future seasons. In fact, at the rate we're going she may have been the only interesting part of future seasons.

Overall, the season had some good moments and it's worth a watch. But after this season, I honestly have a hard time imaging how I would ever give a crap about a third season of the show.

Daredevil ended arguably on its best note ever, mostly unaffected by modern sexual politics. Iron Fist is ending on an undeniable low note, hopelessly crippled by those same politics. It's sad. Iron Fist always had a ton of potential, arguably second only to Daredevil. It deserved better.

And so did we viewers.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 13 Jan  2019, 20:35
Daredevil ended arguably on its best note ever, mostly unaffected by modern sexual politics. Iron Fist is ending on an undeniable low note, hopelessly crippled by those same politics. It's sad. Iron Fist always had a ton of potential, arguably second only to Daredevil. It deserved better.

And so did we viewers.

Good write up, colors. You might say Iron Fist resembled more of a typical low tier CW show with the interpersonal, family drama. But with slightly better acting.

While we're on the subject of Daredevil, I think I've made peace with its cancellation. It's unfortunate and disappointing, but if you ignore the final Bullseye scene, it was a fitting conclusion to Matt Murdock and Wilson Fisk's story. It's unlikely, but if the show went downhill immediately from the fourth season onwards, I'd rather it ended as it did.