Who else believes that Gough is still the best live action Alfred to date? 8)
After thinking about Alfred throughout the Burton/Schumacher films, I've always appreciated that he still wants the best for Bruce while staying loyal to him at the same time. Whether it may be encouraging Bruce to give love a chance with Vicki, helping out during the Penguin and Riddler ordeals and the emotional scene together with Clooney's Bruce in B&R, I'd say this Alfred is still admirable. Of course, some might argue that he let Vicki in the Batcave, but I'd say Vicki already knew about Bruce's true identity and decided to let her talk to Bruce about it.
I personally think they make Alfred way too abrasive these days. Y'know with Michael Caine and everything. Even Sean Pertwee in Gotham still has that touch of cockney aggression there. I know he's supposed to be a former combat vet but still, I miss the days of Michael Gough who embodied the "sweet old man" version of Alfred. That of course all pays off beautifully in Batman and Robin when he seems to be dying. Can you imagine how wrongly those scenes would play if he were always the tough Sgt Major type?
I know some fans will argue he's too sweet and nice. But really Batman needs at least some kind of fatherly love and caring from the guy than just being shouted at to shape up y'know? I enjoy in Batman Forever his obvious disagreement with Bruce over Dick's situation. But it never descends into that tiresome (and for me, out of character) bickering that was seen with Bale and Caine. I find it more interesting Alfred gets his point across as the wise old father figure he should be than the military man of mere strategy.
I also like the whole look of Gough. Who can forget those little glasses and bowler hat he wore in almost all 4 films? There was always a recognisable Alfred look there that became iconic to me. That's all gone to pot now with Caine and Pertwee lol
The tough alfred works better in Earth one; having him be more of a mentor and keep Bruce in check.
Caines Alfred was good in begins but he criticized Bruce every step of the way and left when he needed him the most.
Gough's Alfred was more of a senior mentor helping Bruce get to the next phase of his life. Each sequel he actually played a pivotal role;
Returns he seemed to figure out Selina was Catwoman before Bruce did but allowed Bruce to find out on his own
Forever he was the reason Bruce and Dick became partners
Batman and Robin he prepares Bruce to trust others.
Gough's Alfred did provide that warmth and consideration that Bruce needed when he is contemplating about something. The deleted scene in Batman Forever where Alfred encourages Bruce to consider moving on from Batman after avenging his parents and declining crime rate in Gotham, and find another chance at happiness with Chase Meridian is another good example. Of course, I found it odd that Bruce claimed he never felt in love before because it totally contradicted his relationships for Vicki and Selina. But I digress. That scene should never have been cut.
Quote from: riddler on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, 01:27
Caines Alfred was good in begins but he criticized Bruce every step of the way and left when he needed him the most.
Agreed. I liked Caine as a concerned father figure in BB, but I found him to be incredibly annoying in the second film because of his endless monologues. And I didn't buy his reasoning that he tried to spare Bruce more pain by keeping Rachel's letter a secret because that did more harm to Bruce, if anything. And then he leaves right when Gotham is eventually on the verge of another crisis. ::)
Quote from: riddler on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, 01:27
Gough's Alfred was more of a senior mentor helping Bruce get to the next phase of his life. Each sequel he actually played a pivotal role;
I actually don't remember that! Are you talking about the scene where Bruce and Selina try to leave Wayne Manor at the same time?
i haven't seen gotham yet but between michael gough and michael caine, there's no comparison. michael gough WAS alfred, at least to me. i like the attitude of the animated alfred, but nolan's alfred was grating, not funny or endearing.
my only question is, no votes for alan napier? lol.
Agreed, Catwoman.
Alan Napier was a great Alfred for the Adam West show. They even named Jack Nicholson's character after him!
QuoteI actually don't remember that! Are you talking about the scene where Bruce and Selina try to leave Wayne Manor at the same time?
Yes that scene. I don't know if Alfred concludes that she is catwoman but he likely suspects she's a vigilante of sorts. And he doesn't tell Bruce because they are both apologetic next time they meet.
Napier was good as well. He and Gough played similar roles. I like to think that Alfred remembers tucking Bruce in as a child and still does it in a sense as an adult.
Take this comparison; you can't even count the number of times Caine criticized Bruce and constantly acts as though Bruce is letting his parents and everyone else down. Caines Alfred in Batman & Robin "Spending a life looking after heroes is hardly a regret. My only regret was that I wasn't out there fighting with you". Gough saved the worst movie in that franchise. Bruces first time donning the cape in 8 years, he barely got his cowl off before Caine was ripping him a new one; if his character is so bent on tough love, why did he let Bruce stop living for 8 years?
Quote from: riddler on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, 12:15
Take this comparison; you can't even count the number of times Caine criticized Bruce and constantly acts as though Bruce is letting his parents and everyone else down. Caines Alfred in Batman & Robin "Spending a life looking after heroes is hardly a regret. My only regret was that I wasn't out there fighting with you". Gough saved the worst movie in that franchise. Bruces first time donning the cape in 8 years, he barely got his cowl off before Caine was ripping him a new one; if his character is so bent on tough love, why did he let Bruce stop living for 8 years?
Because of that, I no longer feel bad that Gough's Alfred fell for Two-Face and Riddler's cheap trick-or-treat disguise in Batman Forever. ;)
Caine's Alfred in the second and third films is yet another example why I couldn't stand almost any of the characters in that trilogy. They're just set up for insincere and forced drama if you ask me.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 1 Nov 2014, 00:14
Quote from: riddler on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, 12:15
Take this comparison; you can't even count the number of times Caine criticized Bruce and constantly acts as though Bruce is letting his parents and everyone else down. Caines Alfred in Batman & Robin "Spending a life looking after heroes is hardly a regret. My only regret was that I wasn't out there fighting with you". Gough saved the worst movie in that franchise. Bruces first time donning the cape in 8 years, he barely got his cowl off before Caine was ripping him a new one; if his character is so bent on tough love, why did he let Bruce stop living for 8 years?
Because of that, I no longer feel bad that Gough's Alfred fell for Two-Face and Riddler's cheap trick-or-treat disguise in Batman Forever. ;)
Caine's Alfred in the second and third films is yet another example why I couldn't stand almost any of the characters in that trilogy. They're just set up for insincere and forced drama if you ask me.
You can add Alfred to the list of Nolan characters with contradictory agendas;
throughout the second filmhe was encouraging bruce to mecome Batman and continue being batman, fighting for Harvey Dent and battling the joker. Yet in the 3rd film what does he do?
-criticized Bruce for drawing the police off Bane (and by the way I don't understand why he chose THAT moment to return in the cowl. Al he did was help Bane get away) he didn't seem to attempt to pursue Bane.
-leaves on the basis that he doesn't want to bury any more Waynes.
Yet he also encourages Bruce to reclaim his old life.
Gough's Alfred had a fatherly touch to him that the others didn't quite have. There was a sweetness,a tenderness and a concern for Bruce that was moving and very sincere. I will always regard Gough's Alfred as my favorite on screen and although he has passed, I'm glad he lived to a ripe old age of 94.
I think it's crazy how he had his last role in 2010, he never stopped giving to the art. With over six decades of films, he's no doubt gone down as a film icon.
I think the best portrayal of Alfred is in Batman, though he had the best chemistry with Keaton in both of the Burton films. Alfred knows what's best for Bruce, and always makes that known, but at the same time, he will stay by his side no matter what he goes through. Alfred really just wants Bruce to be happy and live as much as a normal life as he can.
For Forever and B&R, it was just nice to see him still in the role. I have a soft spot for his role in Batman & Robin - the expansion on Alfred and dealing with his potential passing was one of the strongest points of the film.
Quote from: Slash Man on Fri, 14 Nov 2014, 21:06
I think it's crazy how he had his last role in 2010, he never stopped giving to the art. With over six decades of films, he's no doubt gone down as a film icon.
I think the best portrayal of Alfred is in Batman, though he had the best chemistry with Keaton in both of the Burton films. Alfred knows what's best for Bruce, and always makes that known, but at the same time, he will stay by his side no matter what he goes through. Alfred really just wants Bruce to be happy and live as much as a normal life as he can.
For Forever and B&R, it was just nice to see him still in the role. I have a soft spot for his role in Batman & Robin - the expansion on Alfred and dealing with his potential passing was one of the strongest points of the film.
In my opinion Alfred was THE best character in Batman and Robin. I loved his line 'my only regret was that I wasnt out there with you'
He was pivotal to Dick Grayson becoming Robin both encouraging him to carry his families Legacy and convincing Bruce to let Dick find his own way.
I often wonder how Gough and Hingle felt about the transition of the films.
The way I see it, they played the same characters, they played it the same as they were established in the previous films.
For Gordon, we actually transition into the later Batman that works with him more, though that doesn't determine which is better. Bruce Timm actually complemented how Batman works on his own in the first movie, without much consulting with Gordon.
And I do like Dick and Alfred's friendship in Batman Forever. Once Dick figures out Batman's secret, Bruce is only cold to him, but Alfred gives him support. Also, humor is never an issue with Alfred. People criticize the drive thru line, but I could easily see that in the Burton films. Maybe just the fact that it was the first line in the film was a little off-putting.
Credit to the writing and also Gough's wonderfully nuanced performance, he had some great lines and great moments in all the Bat-films (Burton/Shumacher era). I can always revisit him whenever I watch these films, especially Burton's. He was and is MY Alfred.
Quote from: Slash Man on Tue, 18 Nov 2014, 02:17
And I do like Dick and Alfred's friendship in Batman Forever. Once Dick figures out Batman's secret, Bruce is only cold to him, but Alfred gives him support. Also, humor is never an issue with Alfred. People criticize the drive thru line, but I could easily see that in the Burton films. Maybe just the fact that it was the first line in the film was a little off-putting.
I didn't mind the sandwich line, it does kind of present Alfred as a fatherly figure but I could have done without the "i'll get drive thru" line (I wonder if that was the marketing pressure with McDonalds being a big sponsor?)
I think Alfred sees what happened to Dick as history repeating itself (Bruces parents) but identifies that Dick is not Bruce and does things differently. I like to think that Alfred realizes there's no stopping Dick, he'll become a vigilante no matter what but figures he's better off with Bruce and Alfred given their resources. He also realizes that Bruce needs a figure like dick; Alfred himself is aging and wont always be around and seems to worry in the first 3 films that Bruce may end up completely alone when that happens.
Quote from: Slash Man on Fri, 14 Nov 2014, 21:06
I think the best portrayal of Alfred is in Batman, though he had the best chemistry with Keaton in both of the Burton films. Alfred knows what's best for Bruce, and always makes that known, but at the same time, he will stay by his side no matter what he goes through. Alfred really just wants Bruce to be happy and live as much as a normal life as he can.
Perhaps I'm overthinking this, but I'm looking back at the scene in B89 where Bruce reads the police report about his parents' murders in the Batcave. Bruce notices that Alfred is thinking about something and asks him what's on his mind, and Alfred tells him he has no desire to spend his last remaining years grieving for old friends - or their sons.
What I find curious is as Alfred speaks, he closes the vault holding the Batsuit inside. It kind of symbolises to me how he secretly wants Bruce to move on with his life as best as he can, and not spend the rest of it on a never-ending battle. I do think it shows how Alfred always encouraged Bruce to give romance a chance to fill that emotional void he had suffered since losing his parents, such as giving him advice to tell Vicki the truth about his secret identity, instead of advising him to keep quiet for their own sake and put a further strain on their relationship. Perhaps Alfred's goal into convincing Bruce to trust Vicki was to help him finally let the pain go and give up being Batman for good.
If you think about it, Alfred did have a point if that were his intentions, because Bruce avenging his parents in the end doesn't really bring much closure. Yes, Jack Napier is gone and the city is safe along with him being gone. But it does come at a cost, as Bruce continues fighting the war at the expense of his relationship with Vicki.
I'm convinced more people would make this connection of what were Alfred's intentions, had BF included this scene in the final cut (minus the part where Bruce says he never fell in love before, of course).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOxFMEtLjtg