Batman-Online.com

Opening this up, since it looks like this is a done deal.

The showrunners of Arrow, along with Geoff Johns, are developing a Flash show to spin off from Arrow, using the Barry Allen Flash.  This was announced today and the Hollywood Reporter got more details:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/flash-writers-preview-cws-newest-595705

QuoteBarry Allen, the alter ego of the lightning-fast Scarlet Speedster, will be introduced in the eighth, ninth and 20th episodes of Arrow's upcoming second season, Kreisberg and Johns told reporters during a Tuesday afternoon conference call. Casting is now underway to find an actor to play the DC Comics hero in what will be an origin story similar to Oliver Queen/Arrow. The 20th episode will serve as the backdoor pilot for Flash. All three Barry Allen episodes will be penned by Berlanti, Kreisberg and Johns.

"When we first meet Barry Allen, he's just a forensic scientist ... an ordinary man," Kreisberg said, stressing the character, like Amell's vigilante, will be grounded in reality and as realistic as possible. The first two episodes will see the character in Oliver's home of Starling City, with the 20th providing a window to see Barry in The Flash's world.
"Part of the fun for the audience ... is to see how we view our Arrow take on the Flash legacy," Kreisberg said. "Some of it will feel very familiar to DC Comics, some of it hopefully will feel different, fresh and exciting. The same way we approached Arrow is the same way we're approaching Barry."

One of the things that grounds CW's Arrow is the fact that the series isn't about individuals with superpowers -- with The Flash a clear violation of that. Producers noted that they'll handle the introduction of Barry's superspeed in a way that isn't commonplace. "There will be extraordinary events in the world and the characters will react in the same way," Kreisberg noted.

"The fact he has superpowers, there's something more relatable about Barry among the Big Seven of the Justice League," he added. "He got his powers by accident; he's not a god, he's not an alien ... his reactions to that feel very ... human and grounded."

Since Flash is a backdoor pilot episode of Arrow, the character will mix it up with Oliver -- providing a stark contrast between the two heroes.

"Oliver Queen is a very dark and tortured soul, and Barry is not," Kreisberg said, noting he will have a profound impact on Oliver, Diggle and Felicity. "He's a great character who is going to affect all of our characters' lives. It will be fun ... to see these two characters together because they have two different worlds."

Added Johns: "We're also exploring a very personal story for Barry -- life as a forensic scientist and the people around him, the tragedies and how he deals with them -- in a very different way than Oliver Queen. The intention, they noted, will be to add to Arrow instead of stripping away characters from the series should the spinoff move forward, meaning it's likely the residents of Starling City will remain there.

Johns reiterated that the Justice League member will be seen as The Flash -- complete with his trademark red costume and not a poor imitation. Added Kreisberg: "No sweat suits or strange code names; he will be The Flash."

Producers haven't yet figured out how they plan to depict the Flash's lightning speed but Johns insisted it won't just be the standard "blurring around."

"It's not what people expect," Kreisberg said. "We want to do something fresh, new and exciting and give people a real cinematic experience the same way we did with Arrow."

As for casting, Kreisberg would only note that the process -- which will be overseen by the same casting director who handles Arrow -- has now begun. "Blonds will be preferred," he joked. 

While the response to Arrow has been mixed here at Batman Online, there are a bunch of tidbits here that I think will make people happy.  It looks like the Barry Allen Flash:
- will definitely have superpowers (which means that Arrow may actually evolve from an initially realistic take to a more comic book-fantastical world)
- will have the moniker "The Flash."  Sure, the show doesn't have the "The" in the title, but it's a hell of a lot closer than taking the Green out of Green Arrow or calling Wonder Woman "Amazon"
- will be a more lighthearted individual from the Bruce Wayne-ized Oliver Queen in the TV show
- will have the red and yellow suit!

What is DC Entertainment's game? Are they creating a cinematic DCU or a TV DCU? Will both be connected? Is Cavill going to show up in Season 3 of Arrow?

Marvel is creating films for Ant Man, Dr Strange, Guardians of the Galaxy...DCE is giving Flash a cameo in a TV series....

Agreed. I can't really get too excited about a potential TV show as it may come at the expense of the Flash on the big screen.

I'm excited for it; i kind of feel comics translate better to TV than the movies anyhow due to the ongoing plotlines.

I'm thinking no superman yet; they seem to want to tackle the lesser known heroes (hence why it was GA and not batman). Aquaman or Cyborg are probably up next after Flash.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 31 Jul  2013, 13:02
Agreed. I can't really get too excited about a potential TV show as it may come at the expense of the Flash on the big screen.

I entirely agree.  I want a decent big-screen version of these characters, not another relatively low-budget, teen-orientated, over-compromised, poorly-lighted and blandly (slo-mo) choreographed CW show full of second-raters and b-list actors.  These shows all look the same and lack the personality and distinctiveness of the various big-screen incarnations.

Like Ral says, what is DC doing?  They seem to lack any ambition for their characters.  I would have thought the commercial success of MOS would have encouraged them to put out more JLA-orientated movies.

Quote from: Paul (ral) on Wed, 31 Jul  2013, 08:53
What is DC Entertainment's game? Are they creating a cinematic DCU or a TV DCU? Will both be connected? Is Cavill going to show up in Season 3 of Arrow?

Marvel is creating films for Ant Man, Dr Strange, Guardians of the Galaxy...DCE is giving Flash a cameo in a TV series....

Yep. I love Bat and Supe, but everything else, Marvel takes the cake.

QuoteI'm excited for it; i kind of feel comics translate better to TV than the movies anyhow due to the ongoing plotlines. I'm excited for it; i kind of feel comics translate better to TV than the movies anyhow due to the ongoing plotlines.

I agree.

QuoteThese shows all look the same and lack the personality and distinctiveness of the various big-screen incarnations.

Unfortunately I also agree with this. But a few quotes from the article BatmAngelus linked have given me hope.

Quote"Oliver Queen is a very dark and tortured soul, and Barry is not,"

QuoteJohns reiterated that the Justice League member will be seen as The Flash -- complete with his trademark red costume and not a poor imitation. Added Kreisberg: "No sweat suits or strange code names; he will be The Flash."

The hints about "tragedy" make me thing they'll use Johns' The Flash: Rebirth (2009-2010) as a starting point. And if that's the case then we'll probably get to see Professor Zoom make an appearance too.  ;D

There was a time when TV producers had the balls to make full on live-action superhero shows. And some of those shows helped define those characters in the public eye every bit as much as a movie would have done. I'm thinking of classic shows like:

•   Adventures of Superman (1952-1958)
•   Batman (1966-1968)
•   Wonder Woman (1975-1979)
•   The Incredible Hulk (1978-1982)
•   The Flash (1990-1991)
•   Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman (1993-1997)

These shows would never get made nowadays. Instead we have to make do with unimaginative plainclothes superhero shows like Mutant X, Birds of Prey, Heroes and the upcoming Amazon. And yet I'll bet fifty years from now fans will still be watching George Reeves as Superman and Bill Bixby as the Hulk when shows like Birds of Prey have long been forgotten.

I'm hoping, perhaps unrealistically, that this new series of The Flash will be the one to break the mould. Maybe we'll finally get a new all out superhero show that embraces its comic book heritage. Maybe we'll get to see all the classic rogues in live action; not as ordinary people in leather jackets and hoodies, but as costume-wearing super villains unlike anything you'd see elsewhere on television.

DC had a very successful shared universe with its animated television shows back in the nineties and noughties. Then Marvel came along and pwned them at the box office with its shared universe of live action movies. I believe Fox is now planning to establish its own shared universe using Wolverine and the X-Men as a starting point and adding the Fantastic Four and Deadpool into the mix.

DC will never catch up for the simple reason that they're reluctant to have more than one film in production at any time. They really need to give each hero his or her own movie, but they lack the confidence to do that. Instead they're giving us Man of Steel – World's Finest – Justice League. Which is fine, but the other heroes need to be given a chance to shine too. And perhaps TV is the medium in which to do that. Why not do what Marvel isn't doing and establish a shared universe across several different TV shows? Why not take the successful formula of the DC animated universe and recreate it in live action?

Perhaps this new show will mark the beginning of a new era for superheroes on TV. Then again, maybe it'll just be another bland CW teen drama that never aspires to fulfil the potential of the source material. We'll just have to wait and see. But for now at least, I'm cautiously optimistic.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 31 Jul  2013, 15:55DC had a very successful shared universe with its animated television shows back in the nineties and noughties. Then Marvel came along and pwned them at the box office with its shared universe of live action movies. I believe Fox is now planning to establish its own shared universe using Wolverine and the X-Men as a starting point and adding the Fantastic Four and Deadpool into the mix.

I thought FF had reverted back to Marvel.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 31 Jul  2013, 15:55DC will never catch up for the simple reason that they're reluctant to have more than one film in production at any time. They really need to give each hero his or her own movie, but they lack the confidence to do that. Instead they're giving us Man of Steel – World's Finest – Justice League. Which is fine, but the other heroes need to be given a chance to shine too. And perhaps TV is the medium in which to do that. Why not do what Marvel isn't doing and establish a shared universe across several different TV shows? Why not take the successful formula of the DC animated universe and recreate it in live action?

I'm willing to cut WB a lot of slack. They wanted a shared universe but had nothing but bad luck. Batman (played by Keaton according to rumors) would've made a cameo in the Burton Superman movie but that obviously never happened. They tried again with BvS back in 2000 but fans threw a fit over it. After that, Nolan took over the Batman franchise and a team-up was off the table because God forbid he follow orders.

Now they have a chance to do the shared universe they wanted to do... and fans are once again grousing about it. But if they follow Marvel's formula too closely, they'll be accused of being copycats. I think doing MOS, WF and presumably Justice League of America out of which other heroes can be spun is the right move to make.

Something else, my opinion of fandom has really deteriorated over the years. Smallville was undoubtedly a shared universe but a lot of fans uniformly complained each time other characters had guest appearances on the show. I'm to the point where I don't trust what any other fan ever says until/unless they establish true credibility somehow. That sounds snobby and elitist, and maybe it is, but that's where I'm at with fandom these days.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 31 Jul  2013, 15:55Perhaps this new show will mark the beginning of a new era for superheroes on TV. Then again, maybe it'll just be another bland CW teen drama that never aspires to fulfil the potential of the source material. We'll just have to wait and see. But for now at least, I'm cautiously optimistic.

I deleted your other remarks about TV shows but I agree that they're the better vehicle for superheroes and comic book stories in many cases. Unfortunately, feature film is now inseparably linked with credibility. A lot of fans (more than you may think) look down their noses at TV. In some ways I understand but in other ways it's not open to argument that an episodic format like TV is fundamentally a better medium for superheroes. The jury's in on this.

QuoteI thought FF had reverted back to Marvel.

Fox lost the rights to Daredevil and Ghostrider last year, but they've still got the Fantastic Four. Josh Trank is writing and directing the new movie, and supposedly Michael B. Jordan is in line to play Johnny Storm. Fox also hired Mark Millar to act as a creative consultant on all their upcoming superhero films, including X-Men: Days of Future Past and Fantastic Four. According to Millar these will both take place within the same universe.

Fox is also trying to get the Deadpool movie off the ground, though that seems to be stuck in development hell at the moment. There's some uncertainty about the character of Quicksilver too. Fox want him in one of their films, but apparently Marvel want him in the next Avengers flick. Which is all the more reason for Warner Bros to get moving with the Flash.

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QuoteSmallville was undoubtedly a shared universe but a lot of fans uniformly complained each time other characters had guest appearances on the show.

True. The Absolute Justice episode is the closest thing we've got to a real Justice League movie so far (not counting that dreadful TV movie from 1997). And the fact they did such a good job with the costumes, particularly Dr. Fate's, should prove that comic book iconography can be translated into live action on a TV budget.

While we're on the subject of Smallville, do you remember that episode where they showed all the villains sitting around a table together?

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That's exactly what I want Captain Cold to look like in the new Flash series. No redesigned "practical" outfits. Just pure comic book awesomeness. Black Manta looks great there too.

QuoteIn some ways I understand but in other ways it's not open to argument that an episodic format like TV is fundamentally a better medium for superheroes. The jury's in on this.

If you don't like the villain in the latest Batman movie then you have to wait another three years for the next one. But if you don't like the villain in a TV episode then you only have to wait one week. Story arcs, teasers, cliff-hanger endings – these dramatic devices all function better in episodic format than in feature films. I also think mystery/detective narratives are better suited to television than film.

The only area where TV shows fall short is special effects. But provided the costumes, acting and writing are good, I'd happily forgo good special effects if it meant I could see these characters on TV every week. But that's just me. Everyone has different priorities about these things.

Sadly superhero TV shows currently have the same stigma about them that superhero films did before Raimi's Spider-Man came out. And the only way that's going to change is if someone has the guts to make an all out comic book show that can find an audience. Not superheroes diluted to fit into our reality, but superheroes taking flight in their own world.

QuoteThe hints about "tragedy" make me thing they'll use Johns' The Flash: Rebirth (2009-2010) as a starting point. And if that's the case then we'll probably get to see Professor Zoom make an appearance too.

TV Line's latest report seems to indicate that you're right about them using Johns' Flash: Rebirth backstory, which only makes sense since Johns himself is involved with the writing:

http://tvline.com/2013/08/01/ncis-new-girl-glee-castle-the-flash-spoilers/

Actor Grant Gustin has been cast as Barry Allen.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/glees-grant-gustin-set-as-625751

Some new info:

QuoteBarry Allen is described a Central City assistant police forensic investigator who arrives in Starling to look into a series of unexplained robberies that may have a connection to a tragedy in his past. A comic book fan boy, Barry is obsessed with the Arrow unaware that working with Oliver and Felicity to solve the crime has brought him right into the dangerous world of the vigilante.

Also, Stephen Amell recently stated that the showrunners needed to get approval from Christopher Nolan to bring in The Flash. 
I'm curious if there are any other aspects of Arrow that they needed Nolan's approval for, especially if there are things the showrunners wanted to do (i.e. bring in more comic book elements), but were restricted from doing in the first season.
http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/08/26/christopher-nolan-had-to-approve-flash-appearing-on-arrow/

Really? Can't say I'm all that excited about his casting.

Eh, it's the CW.  With the exception of Katie Cassidy, I was unfamiliar with all the younger cast members of Arrow before it premiered.  With the same showrunners behind this, all I expected for the new Barry Allen was another young, prettyboy unknown, so my expectations were met.   :)  We'll see how he does, performance-wise.  I'm in more anticipation to see him in costume, since they promised that he'd be in the iconic suit.

Quote from: BatmAngelus on Sat, 14 Sep  2013, 01:14
Eh, it's the CW.

Which is all that needs to be said...

seeing Nolan's name on it instantly reduced my interest. Has DC basically handed the screen rights over to him? Though I'll admit I do like what Jonathon has done with person of interest.

I wouldn't go nearly as far as to say that his name is on this.  His creative control seems to be limited to just saying "Yes" or "No" and leaving the writing up to the showrunners.

Quote from: BatmAngelus on Sat, 14 Sep  2013, 16:13
I wouldn't go nearly as far as to say that his name is on this.  His creative control seems to be limited to just saying "Yes" or "No" and leaving the writing up to the showrunners.

Why does he have creative control? Did he get it over the whole JLA?

I think he's got it over all DC stuff.  Amell says in that link that he's the "czar of all things Warner Bros. and DC." 

I know it's not an ideal situation, but it seems to me that it's purely an executive-type role.  WB may have given him that position due to the Dark Knight Trilogy.  Given his current work schedule on Interstellar (and possibly still producing the Man of Steel sequel), I doubt he's affecting these CW shows any further than just saying "Yes, the Arrow guys can do a Flash spin-off."

Quote
JOHN WESLEY SHIPP RETURNS TO "THE FLASH" WITH "MYSTERIOUS" ROLE IN PILOT

The CW's new take on "The Flash" will include a significant nod to the original TV incarnation of DC Comics' Scarlet Speedster: John Wesley Shipp, who played the dual role of The Flash/Barry Allen in the 1990-1991 "Flash" TV series, has been cast in the new "Flash" pilot, according to The Hollywood Reporter.

Shipp will guest in the pilot as a "mysterious character," with no further details offered. If "The Flash" is picked up as a series, he's expected to have a recurring role.

As noted in December by "Arrow" and "The Flash" executive producer Greg Berlanti, there are several connections between Shipp and new TV Flash Grant Gustin, who debuted as Barry Allen on two episodes of "Arrow" earlier this season: they're both from Norfolk, Virginia, and their birthdays are only two days apart.

"The Flash" casting news has been arriving at an appropriately speedy rate in recent days, with Tom Cavanagh reported Monday night to be playing S.T.A.R. Labs scientist Harrison Wells. The cast also includes Jesse L. Martin as Detective West, Candice Patton as Iris West, Carlos Valdes as Cisco Ramon, Danielle Panabaker as Caitlin Snow and Rick Cosnett as Detective Eddie Thawne.

Berlanti, fellow "Arrow" executive producer Andrew Kreisberg and DC chief creative officer (and former long-time "Flash" comic book writer) Geoff Johns wrote the "Flash" pilot script, one of multiple DC Comics-based television shows currently in development.

Source: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=50839 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=50839)

8)

This is great news! Shipp is the Michael Keaton of the Flash actors. I hope he's playing Jay Garrick.

On a related note, I've noticed Shipp posts on his IMDb page from time to time. It might be worth getting in touch with him for an interview once we know a little more about who he's playing in the new series. He seems to enjoy interacting with his fans, so he might be up for it. I know there are quite a few fans of The Flash TV show on this site, and we could justify it on the basis that Shipp played Professor Zoom in Batman: The Brave and the Bold.

WB has released the first picture of the costume. Judging from the chinstrap, it seems to be based on the New 52 design.


I'll reserve final judgement until I've seen the rest of it, but this early glimpse has got me really excited. I'm so thrilled they've stuck to the comic costume. They said they would, but I didn't believe it. And he's wearing the cowl! After years of superhero shows without any superheroes in them, we're finally getting a new TV show where the main character wears a cowl and has super powers! I really hope this doesn't suck. It has a lot of potential.

I so want them to tie this into the movies now!

The producers from Arrow will be producing Flash too. I found this article from last year that reports how they will approach the character:

Quote

New FLASH TV Series Details From ARROW's Andrew Kreisberg, Geoff Johns 'He Will Be The Flash'

"He's obviously been a strong personal favorite of both Geoff and mine," said Kreisberg on the call, "So when Greg [Berlanti] approached us and said 'Hey, what would you think if we did The Flash as a spin-off?' all of us lit up!" Kreisberg went on to mention that Barry Allen, unlike the other powered members of the Justice League, isn't a demi-god, an alien, or a king, but rather gets his powers through a freak accident and has a "human and grounded" reaction to it.

"Olver Queen is a very dark and tortured soul, and Barry is not. I think it will be fun to see these two characters together because they have distinctly different world views while both caring very deeply about right and wrong,"  Kreisberg teased about the dynamic between the pair."As excited as we are to write for Barry, we're really excited about what Barry's arrival is going to mean for Oliver, for Diggle, for Felicity, and everybody." Johns added that Barry being a cop (he's a forensic scientist in the comics, and that's how he'll be introduced on Arrow) means "he follows the law, he follows the rules; he's the last thing in the world you would ever think about as being a vigilante."

The two characters will "learn from each other," Kreisberg said, and Barry Allen will really challenge the way Oliver Queen thinks about what a hero is.

While he'll be a regular forensic scientist in his inital appearance in Starling City, Geoff Johns clarified that this won't be a "Smallville - The Blur" kind of appearance. He'll wear a version of his red comic book costume, and he will be identified by his comic book superhero name. "There will be no sweatsuits or strange code names. He will be The Flash."

Source: http://www.newsarama.com/18536-arrow-s-kreisberg-johns-give-new-flash-tv-details.html (http://www.newsarama.com/18536-arrow-s-kreisberg-johns-give-new-flash-tv-details.html)

Good to know that Flash will actually be called Flash and not some lame nickname i.e. The Hood. It's promising to know that Barry Allen won't be a brooding clone like Bruce Wayne and Oliver Queen.  :)

But it does make me ask why are the same producers who are doing Arrow and Flash resist calling Oliver Queen Green Arrow?

New costume in full view:

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Looks better than I expected. I was thinking they were going to give him some kind of costume/street clothes hybrid (like Daredevil).

Still, I prefer the 1990 version.

Quote from: phantom stranger on Wed, 12 Mar  2014, 02:05
Looks better than I expected. I was thinking they were going to give him some kind of costume/street clothes hybrid (like Daredevil).

Still, I prefer the 1990 version.

I prefer the 1990 suit too. I found another, clearer picture of the new costume that was taken during filming. It looks like it's made of leather and cotton instead of the sculpted suit that John Wesley Shipp used to wear.

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Well, that pic LF posted actually doesn't look as good but, hey, lighting is everything with these costumes.

I'm pleased to see the show is now apparently titled 'The Flash' instead of just 'Flash'. :)

Here are some more pics taken on location.




Overall, I'm pretty happy with this suit. Sure, I could nitpick – I think it's a little too baggy, I'm not mad on the texture, I wish the chest emblem was larger and had a white background, and I'd prefer it if the boots were yellow (that's also my one criticism of Shipp's costume from the 90's series). But overall, it's not at all bad. I'm sure they'll refine it as the series progresses, making little adjustments between episodes. But at the end of the day it does look like the New 52 version of the Flash's costume. And I'm happy with that. I admire them for having the guts to make a full on costumed superhero show when no one else is brave enough to even try.

I'm particularly pleased to see that the wings on the side of the cowl are three dimensional. It was impossible to tell in the first teaser pic, and I was concerned the bolts might simply be drawn onto the sides of the cowl like Captain America's wings in the Marvel films. But evidently that's not the case.

Quote from: phantom stranger on Wed, 12 Mar  2014, 02:05Still, I prefer the 1990 version.

Same here. Shipp's was easily the best of the four live-action Flash costumes (I'm not counting the Smallville version, as that was Bart Allen, not Barry). But I'd say the new outfit ranks a respectable second place.


Speaking of Shipp, he's been photographed on set with Gustin. And he's wearing a red hoodie.



Red hoodie = red sweater? Jay Garrick? Make it so!

The suit looks ok, I guess.

Geoff Johns tweeted this picture accompanied by the words "Flash Fans -- notice anything from the lore...?"

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BifmKXACcAACG8Y.jpg:large)

As Flash comic fans will know, Paul Gambi is the name of the tailor who makes the rogues' costumes for them. I wonder which rogues will appear on the show...

Well Reverse Flash was hinted at in Arrow. Captain Boomerang seems like a sure thing.

I really need to start watching some Arrow episodes. It'd be great to see Captain Boomerang in live action. I imagine they'd equip him with hi-tech boomerangs similar to the programmable batarang Keaton wields in Batman Returns. And of course Reverse Flash is a must if they're using Geoff Johns' Flash: Rebirth as the basis for the series.

I hope Gorilla Grodd makes an appearance too. I know I'm always criticising TV shows for making comic book characters look like regular people, but in this instance I'd cut them some slack. I don't think they could accurately portray a talking gorilla on a TV budget. And Grodd has adopted human form in the comics, so the idea isn't without precedent. Maybe they could depict him as a human but throw in some subtle hints about his true simian form in the background – some empty banana skins, a Donkey Kong arcade cabinet and a copy of the Rolling Stones' 'GRRR!' album... Yes, perhaps "subtle" wasn't the right word.

I'm not sure anyone could top Hamill's take on the Trickster though. It might be better to avoid using that character.

Watch episodes 8 and 9 (if I remember correct) of season 2 of arrow for Barry Allen. Very good.

I was actually about to ask if someone could tell me which episodes focus on Barry Allen, so thanks for that. I'll try and track those episodes down online and give them a look.

Truth be told, I'm probably more excited for this show than I am for the new Gotham series.

Me too actually!

I was really excited when i found out Shipp was going to be in the new show.

I've always thought it would be a great idea if Shipp played Barry Allen in a "revival type" show starring the Wally West version of the character. Never thought it was going to happen but this is the next best thing.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 15 Mar  2014, 17:33
I was actually about to ask if someone could tell me which episodes focus on Barry Allen, so thanks for that. I'll try and track those episodes down online and give them a look.

Truth be told, I'm probably more excited for this show than I am for the new Gotham series.

season 2 episodes 8 and 9.


Without spoiling too heavily, there's not a lot of backstory revealed. Allen is lying about his motives saying he's with the Central City forensics unit but is truthfully doing his own investigations. It seems they are going the Captain America/Steve Rogers route of turning an ordinary man into his opposite; the pre-powered Allen for instance is supposed to be slow and always late.

It has officially been picked up for a full season.

Source: http://headlineplanet.com/home/2014/05/08/cw-orders-flash-passes-bloodlines/ (http://headlineplanet.com/home/2014/05/08/cw-orders-flash-passes-bloodlines/)

Promo teaser has been released, featuring Stephen Amell as Green Arrow.

http://youtu.be/rnXsnR-2AvU (http://youtu.be/rnXsnR-2AvU)

Flash seems to be the happy-go-lucky contrast to Oliver Queen. That's good I say. Not that keen on the music though.

A bit late, but has anyone seen the extended trailer yet?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj0l7iGKh8g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj0l7iGKh8g)

The acting is a bit off (it's the CW after all), but it has tons of potential. I get a Spider-Man vibe from this. A contrast to Arrow's greenish, moody atmosphere.

Anyone noticed the similarities between this and the original Flash TV series? New show has STAR Labs scientists knowing Barry's secret identity, just like in the original show. And the pilot has Barry testing his speed, just like the original show's pilot.

Going off a conversation me and Silver Nemesis had about the upcoming Flash show, it was definitely a sigh of relief (atleast for me, but I think the same for SN) when the Pre-Crisis/Post-Crisis-Pre-New52 Reverse Flash look made it's appearance in the extended trailer.  ;D

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Considering that the New52 universe, along with it's sketchy choice of costume changes/updates (or change of identity in some cases like our pal here Eobard Thawne) have already been acknowledged and implemented in the animated movie features, it was indeed great to know that "Eddie" Thawne (not the New52's Daniel West Reverse Flash) is being incorporated, and something much more traditional being conceded when it comes to the Reverse Flash costume itself. 

QuoteTHE FLASH: AMANDA PAYS REPRISING HER ROLE AS DR. TINA MCGEE

CW's The Flash is turning out to be quite a reunion for the cast of CBS's The Flash from 1990 -- with Amanda Pays now having signed on to reprise her role as Dr. Tina McGee, the character she played on the original, live-action TV series.

According to Variety, Pays joins John Wesley Shipp as the second 1990 Flash TV series star to return for the 2014 version. While Shipp will be playing a different character -- Barry Allen's father -- Pays will portray Dr. McGee once more.

Source:http://au.ign.com/articles/2014/09/15/the-flash-amanda-pays-reprising-her-role-as-dr-tina-mcgee (http://au.ign.com/articles/2014/09/15/the-flash-amanda-pays-reprising-her-role-as-dr-tina-mcgee)

It's becoming a Flash 1990 TV reunion.  8)

Quote from: The Joker on Mon, 15 Sep  2014, 22:41

Going off a conversation me and Silver Nemesis had about the upcoming Flash show, it was definitely a sigh of relief (atleast for me, but I think the same for SN) when the Pre-Crisis/Post-Crisis-Pre-New52 Reverse Flash look made it's appearance in the extended trailer.  ;D

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F3814%2Fa9f2a1778e1020dfd3bd8f6eb5026e47.gif&hash=5d08de99914929b8fb95fb2e427ee9ecf13200f8)

Considering that the New52 universe, along with it's sketchy choice of costume changes/updates (or change of identity in some cases like our pal here Eobard Thawne) have already been acknowledged and implemented in the animated movie features, it was indeed great to know that "Eddie" Thawne (not the New52's Daniel West Reverse Flash) is being incorporated, and something much more traditional being conceded when it comes to the Reverse Flash costume itself.

Excellent GIF! ;D

I can't wait to get a clearer look at the Reverse Flash costume. But based on that clip, it's definitely the classic pre-Flashpoint outfit. And thank goodness for that.

Weather Wizard, Captain Cold, Heat Wave and Girder have all been confirmed to appear too. Do you think any of them will sport their outfits from the comics? And if so, will they opt for the classic costumes or the New 52 versions? In light of our discussion about Captain Cold, I think it's fair to say we're both hoping for the old-school look.

Still no word on whether Grodd will make an appearance. He was mentioned in the nineties TV show, but never actually appeared. Will he show up in the new show?

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 16 Sep  2014, 12:55Pays will portray Dr. McGee once more.

It's great that she's going to appear in the new series, but I never would have guessed she'd be playing Tina again, over twenty years after she last played her! Besides Judi Dench as M, this may be the only time an actor has played the same character in a reboot as they did in the original version.

Then again, Mark Hamill did reprise his role as the Trickster in the DC animated universe. But I'm not sure that counts.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 16 Sep  2014, 13:38
Excellent GIF! ;D

I can't wait to get a clearer look at the Reverse Flash costume. But based on that clip, it's definitely the classic pre-Flashpoint outfit. And thank goodness for that.

Indeed!

What is your opinion on the Daniel West Reverse-Flash, Silver Nemesis? I know little of the actual character himself, but I hate to be so harsh right off the bat, and I think I may have mentioned this during one of our chats, but the New52 Reverse-Flash having such a dramatic overhaul in the change of costume really reminds me of the incredibly gimmicky (and bubbly) '90's, where there were alot, and I mean ALOT of unnecessary costume changes/updates on both sides of the fence. Heroes and Villains. To me, the reversed colors of the costume for the Reverse-Flash is pretty iconic .....

How would you say Daniel compares to Eobard in the villainy department?

QuoteWeather Wizard, Captain Cold, Heat Wave and Girder have all been confirmed to appear too. Do you think any of them will sport their outfits from the comics? And if so, will they opt for the classic costumes or the New 52 versions? In light of our discussion about Captain Cold, I think it's fair to say we're both hoping for the old-school look.

Interesting question. I could see Pre-New52 Heat Wave being translated without becoming unrecognizable (Deathstroke on Arrow), but not sure about the other two. Most definitely agree on Captain Cold. Watched a recent video on Youtube that featured a quick interview with Geoff Johns, and which resulted in him wanting to show off his new SKateboard and 'lo and behold, it has the likeness of the Pre-New52 Captain Cold. As Johns has made no bones about him being a personal favorite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keS7dEMRG7s

QuoteStill no word on whether Grodd will make an appearance. He was mentioned in the nineties TV show, but never actually appeared. Will he show up in the new show?

Let's hope so. So much potential there!

Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 17 Sep  2014, 15:26How would you say Daniel compares to Eobard in the villainy department?

Like you, I take a pretty dim view of the New 52 Reverse-Flash. I think a decent analogy would be Ignatius Ogilvy/Emperor Penguin, another New 52 upstart who's usurped the role of a classic villain. In both cases I think the newer characters allow the writers to go places they perhaps couldn't go with the original versions. I suppose they also have to be careful not to overuse a character as powerful and dangerous as Eobard Thawne, so by creating a new version they can give the original a bit of a rest. But I'm sure Thawne will return eventually and reclaim his mantle. Daniel West's days are numbered.

Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 17 Sep  2014, 15:26Interesting question. I could see Pre-New52 Heat Wave being translated without becoming unrecognizable (Deathstroke on Arrow), but not sure about the other two. Most definitely agree on Captain Cold. Watched a recent video on Youtube that featured a quick interview with Geoff Johns, and which resulted in him wanting to show off his new SKateboard and 'lo and behold, it has the likeness of the Pre-New52 Captain Cold. As Johns has made no bones about him being a personal favorite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keS7dEMRG7s

That's very encouraging. :) I love the traditional Captain Cold outfit. It's so simple, yet indelibly classic at the same time. It's also tailor made for a CW show, what with their predilection for replacing outlandish costumes with hoodies. We only got a glimpse of Captain Cold in Smallville, but I really liked the look of his costume there.
   

Hopefully the new version will sport a similar look. I think  the new series could do a better job with Captain Cold than the nineties show did. The 'Captain Cold' episode in the old series was great, but the characterisation of Snart wasn't that close to the comics. I reckon the new show could surpass it.

Speaking of villains, it's just been announced that Captain Boomerang will be appearing in Arrow, played by Nick Tarabay. I have to ask, does Green Arrow actually have any villains of his own on that show, or are they all borrowed from Batman and the Flash's galleries of rogues?

I just saw the first episode.

Overall it was an enjoyable setup, in case you didn't know JWS plays Henry Allen. There is a cameo from Stephen Amell. I'd say the tone is a shade lighter than Arrow, slightly more humour.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 17 Sep  2014, 21:16
Like you, I take a pretty dim view of the New 52 Reverse-Flash. I think a decent analogy would be Ignatius Ogilvy/Emperor Penguin, another New 52 upstart who's usurped the role of a classic villain. In both cases I think the newer characters allow the writers to go places they perhaps couldn't go with the original versions. I suppose they also have to be careful not to overuse a character as powerful and dangerous as Eobard Thawne, so by creating a new version they can give the original a bit of a rest. But I'm sure Thawne will return eventually and reclaim his mantle. Daniel West's days are numbered.

You know, given the Crisis talk, and how next year is going to bring about the "Band-Aid project" along with it coinciding with the 30th anniversary of COIE, I wonder if Eobard might be making an appearance at this point? Given his role in setting up the New52, and the "Love Letter" evidently acknowledging the Pre-New52 Universe, Thawne showing up and getting a full perspective of what he had a hand in doing could be interesting. I could easily see him taunting Batman about the Thomas Wayne Flashpoint Batman, since I think Bruce has a written letter from Thomas that survived into the New52 Universe. Course we know what happened with Thomas taking out Eobard, but if Eobard survived, and with Bruce having no recollection of the Flashpoint time stream, Eobard could paint that picture any way he wants.  ;)

Quote
That's very encouraging. :) I love the traditional Captain Cold outfit. It's so simple, yet indelibly classic at the same time. It's also tailor made for a CW show, what with their predilection for replacing outlandish costumes with hoodies. We only got a glimpse of Captain Cold in Smallville, but I really liked the look of his costume there.
   

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Hopefully the new version will sport a similar look. I think  the new series could do a better job with Captain Cold than the nineties show did. The 'Captain Cold' episode in the old series was great, but the characterisation of Snart wasn't that close to the comics. I reckon the new show could surpass it.

I agree. I didn't care too much for the Villains United makeover Capt. Cold got from the "Underworld Unleashed" event during the mid-late 1990's, nor was I a fan of the sleeveless/gunless New52 makeover as well. If it's not broke, there's no need to fix it. and sometimes it's not about what you can get rid of, it's about what you can keep!

What was the scenario with Capt. Cold getting a very quick cameo in Smallville?

I actually have the Smallville box set, but have, so far, only watched Season 1.  :-[

QuoteSpeaking of villains, it's just been announced that Captain Boomerang will be appearing in Arrow, played by Nick Tarabay. I have to ask, does Green Arrow actually have any villains of his own on that show, or are they all borrowed from Batman and the Flash's galleries of rogues?

Ha!

That's true, definitely seems to be alot of borrowing with villains on Arrow. Wouldn't be surprised to see Catman show up at some point. Though I did like his appearances in the Green Arrow comics from the late 90's/early 2000's, but this was when he was still in loser-mode, and prior to his badass-revamp in Gail Simone's "Villains United" mini-series.

Truth be told, that was about the only times I would really read Green Arrow; If there was some villain outside whatever rogues gallery he has (or lack thereof) showing up. The Riddler was another who had a running arc in GA in or around the time of the Catman appearances.

Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 18 Sep  2014, 23:44


You know, given the Crisis talk, and how next year is going to bring about the "Band-Aid project" along with it coinciding with the 30th anniversary of COIE, I wonder if Eobard might be making an appearance at this point? Given his role in setting up the New52, and the "Love Letter" evidently acknowledging the Pre-New52 Universe, Thawne showing up and getting a full perspective of what he had a hand in doing could be interesting. I could easily see him taunting Batman about the Thomas Wayne Flashpoint Batman, since I think Bruce has a written letter from Thomas that survived into the New52 Universe. Course we know what happened with Thomas taking out Eobard, but if Eobard survived, and with Bruce having no recollection of the Flashpoint time stream, Eobard could paint that picture any way he wants.  ;)

You're right. That is one of my favourite JLA stories. I'd love to see it adapted into live action although it may not be feasible given the fact that it features an alternate JLA. Geoff Johns did contribute to the flashpoint plotline so he may eventually bring it in the show although I think they'll want to start relatively grounded.

I wonder if Thawne will return during this mysterious "Band-Aid" event. He and Barry have been tied to several major milestone events in the history of the DCU.

•   Beginning of the Silver Age – Barry's debut
•   Crisis on Infinite Earths – Barry dies
•   Final Crisis – Barry returns
•   Flashpoint – Thawne dies, Barry effectively "reboots" the DCU

The "Band-Aid" storyline would seem like a perfect juncture for the real Zoom to return.

Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 18 Sep  2014, 23:44I agree. I didn't care too much for the Villains United makeover Capt. Cold got from the "Underworld Unleashed" event during the mid-late 1990's, nor was I a fan of the sleeveless/gunless New52 makeover as well. If it's not broke, there's no need to fix it. and sometimes it's not about what you can get rid of, it's about what you can keep!

Well said. Let's hope Geoff Johns is on our wavelength.

Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 18 Sep  2014, 23:44What was the scenario with Capt. Cold getting a very quick cameo in Smallville?

I actually have the Smallville box set, but have, so far, only watched Season 1.  :-[

I never followed Smallville too closely, so I'm not sure if Cold appeared in any other episodes. But he does make a very brief appearance at the end of the season 10 episode 'Prophecy', where Toyman addresses an assembly of Legion of Doom members.


Amongst the other characters present in the scene are Solomon Grundy, Metallo, Dark Archer, Roulette and Black Manta. And they all look fairy accurate to their comic versions.

Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 18 Sep  2014, 23:44
Truth be told, that was about the only times I would really read Green Arrow; If there was some villain outside whatever rogues gallery he has (or lack thereof) showing up. The Riddler was another who had a running arc in GA in or around the time of the Catman appearances.

If he was portrayed accurate to the comics, then I'd love to see Catman make an appearance. I don't suppose they'll be allowed to use the Riddler though. Not if he's going to appear in Gotham. That raises an interesting question about whether the CW will be allowed to continue using Batman villains so frequently now that there's a new Batman TV show on a rival network.

Quote from: riddler on Fri, 19 Sep  2014, 00:34Geoff Johns did contribute to the flashpoint plotline so he may eventually bring it in the show although I think they'll want to start relatively grounded.

It could happen. The show's clearly taking a lot of cues from Johns' The Flash: Rebirth, which segues very neatly into the events of Flashpoint. Obviously they can't do a full adaptation of Flashpoint, but they could do a smaller scale variation of it, with Green Arrow standing in for Batman. Then again, they could always wait until they've established more heroes in their DC TV universe and then do Flashpoint as a crossover miniseries, sort of like Marvel's planning to do with The Defenders.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 20 Sep  2014, 16:11
I wonder if Thawne will return during this mysterious "Band-Aid" event. He and Barry have been tied to several major milestone events in the history of the DCU.

•   Beginning of the Silver Age – Barry's debut
•   Crisis on Infinite Earths – Barry dies
•   Final Crisis – Barry returns
•   Flashpoint – Thawne dies, Barry effectively "reboots" the DCU

The "Band-Aid" storyline would seem like a perfect juncture for the real Zoom to return.

Would make complete sense, and what a welcome return that would be.  ;)

Having been doing some research, what is your opinion on Hunter Zolomon Zoom from Geoff Johns run on Flash, Silver Nemesis? It appears he was fairly well liked, and from what I can tell, CW is borrowing his back story a bit for "Eddie" Thawne with the whole concept of Thawne working for the police dept...

QuoteI never followed Smallville too closely, so I'm not sure if Cold appeared in any other episodes. But he does make a very brief appearance at the end of the season 10 episode 'Prophecy', where Toyman addresses an assembly of Legion of Doom members.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wikia.com%2Fsmallville%2Fimages%2F1%2F15%2FS10e20-010.jpg&hash=27e58abe3e1ba4fb05a60102b24319c48a3edc51)

Amongst the other characters present in the scene are Solomon Grundy, Metallo, Dark Archer, Roulette and Black Manta. And they all look fairy accurate to their comic versions.

Ah, very cool. Thank you for the info!

Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 18 Sep  2014, 23:44
If he was portrayed accurate to the comics, then I'd love to see Catman make an appearance. I don't suppose they'll be allowed to use the Riddler though. Not if he's going to appear in Gotham. That raises an interesting question about whether the CW will be allowed to continue using Batman villains so frequently now that there's a new Batman TV show on a rival network.

True. If DC/WB/Fox are still going to be OK with Arrow continually borrowing villains from other character's rogues gallery, I suppose they could implement a mandate that requires said villains to be perceptibly differentiated to where, let's say, the Riddler on Gotham, would certainly not be confused with a Riddler appearing on Arrow. Which could be one way to ease in the DCU Multiverse concept if they so chose to.

Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 21 Sep  2014, 14:22


True. If DC/WB/Fox are still going to be OK with Arrow continually borrowing villains from other character's rogues gallery, I suppose they could implement a mandate that requires said villains to be perceptibly differentiated to where, let's say, the Riddler on Gotham, would certainly not be confused with a Riddler appearing on Arrow. Which could be one way to ease in the DCU Multiverse concept if they so chose to.

Some villains are okay to borrow, some not. Deathstroke and Ras Al Ghul I can live with. But Lex Luthor in a story not involving Superman or the Riddler and Joker in a story not involving Batman (or his sidekicks) is just WRONG. Especially the Riddler who is there to out the words greatest detective, it would make no sense to have him go against the flash or Arrow.

Quote from: riddler on Sun, 21 Sep  2014, 23:03
Some villains are okay to borrow, some not. Deathstroke and Ras Al Ghul I can live with. But Lex Luthor in a story not involving Superman or the Riddler and Joker in a story not involving Batman (or his sidekicks) is just WRONG. Especially the Riddler who is there to out the words greatest detective, it would make no sense to have him go against the flash or Arrow.

I'm more lax on the topic of villains being borrowed. Sure, it initially seems "off" to see a villain associated with a particular superhero appear on a show centered around another superhero, though I don't see Flash having to really resort to this since he has a more than sufficient list of Rogues to deal with, but given the track record of Arrow consistently helping itself to fairly well known (Deathstroke) to decidedly well known villains (Ras), I don't see this pattern diminishing anytime soon. Especially since it's likely being implemented in the first place to both gather excitement from fans, as well as a buzz for the show itself as it continues to move forward. Would a villain like Edward appearing as the major baddie for an entire season be the preferred method? Not particularly. 1-2 episode guest appearances would suffice. It doesn't need to be a persistent thing, but much like in the comic books, it's always kinda fun to see such character's cross paths. If even just briefly.

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Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 21 Sep  2014, 14:22Having been doing some research, what is your opinion on Hunter Zolomon Zoom from Geoff Johns run on Flash, Silver Nemesis? It appears he was fairly well liked, and from what I can tell, CW is borrowing his back story a bit for "Eddie" Thawne with the whole concept of Thawne working for the police dept...

To be honest, I'm less familiar with the Hunter Zolomon Zoom. But based on what I know about him, I think he's a decent stand-in for Thawne. I like the fact he has a personal connection to Wally West, instead of simply being a villain West inherited from his mentor. Barry and Eobard have a very personal vendetta, and a similarly personal animosity exists between West and Zolomon. Zolomon has a more sympathetic back story than Thawne. It has certain parallels with Barry's contemporary origin story, what with his mother having being murdered by his father. So it'll be interesting to see if those parallels are played upon in the TV show.

Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 21 Sep  2014, 14:22It doesn't need to be a persistent thing, but much like in the comic books, it's always kinda fun to see such character's cross paths. If even just briefly.

Very true. One thing that bothers me about the use of Batman villains though is the fact Batman doesn't exist in the Arrow/Flash universe. At least not as far as we're aware. In fact he doesn't exist in the Gotham universe yet either. We're getting inundated with Batman villains on TV, but no Batman. That seems somehow wrong to me. :-\

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 25 Sep  2014, 19:47
To be honest, I'm less familiar with the Hunter Zolomon Zoom. But based on what I know about him, I think he's a decent stand-in for Thawne. I like the fact he has a personal connection to Wally West, instead of simply being a villain West inherited from his mentor. Barry and Eobard have a very personal vendetta, and a similarly personal animosity exists between West and Zolomon. Zolomon has a more sympathetic back story than Thawne. It has certain parallels with Barry's contemporary origin story, what with his mother having being murdered by his father. So it'll be interesting to see if those parallels are played upon in the TV show.

That's interesting. Yeah, it appears like Thawne on this show will be a amalgam of both Eobard and Hunter to some extent. Having read up a little bit on the Hunter Zolomon Zoom, I thought it was interesting that Gorilla Grodd crippling Hunter, and Wally refusing to go back in time to change that event, was pretty much got the domino's rolling for his eventual transformation into Zoom. From what I can tell, another aspect to Zolomon's Zoom people seem to like, was his not being able to control the speed of his speech. Which would have him talking really fast, to where words in the word balloons associated with him would run together with no spaces inbetween. I do recall seeing him in crossover books associated with the 2005 INFINITE CRISIS event, where he apparently had a romantic relationship with the Cheetah from Wonder Woman's rogues gallery, but that's pretty much the extent of my exposure.

Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 21 Sep  2014, 14:22
Very true. One thing that bothers me about the use of Batman villains though is the fact Batman doesn't exist in the Arrow/Flash universe. At least not as far as we're aware. In fact he doesn't exist in the Gotham universe yet either. We're getting inundated with Batman villains on TV, but no Batman. That seems somehow wrong to me. :-\

That's different. Guess any character's, atleast as far as we can tell, associated with Snyder's films, are being shied away from in the television shows .... ? Kinda odd, as a longtime comic book reader, to think of Ollie being Ra's arch-nemesis since evidently Batman doesn't exist (yet?), but I guess the character's lack of a really good rogues gallery, and marquee value of other villains being available, explains why that would be. But that's a pretty astute observation about one show being Pre-Batman, showcasing Bats rogues gallery, and another show being No-Batman, showcasing another major top tier Batman rogue as well.  ;D

Did anyone watch the first episode?

I thought it was a decent start, if a little unspectacular. I can't help but feel the scene with Barry Allen going a test run to be very similar to the 1990's pilot version with John Wesley Shipp.

I think this Grant Gustin is okay as a young guy hoping to prove that his dad is innocent. He's still no Shipp, but he's okay for a CW TV show I suppose. The running special effects is very impressive so far.

Loads of potential this show has. From the characters that have been confirmed so far, I'm convinced the best is yet to come.

I'm going along for the ride, and with 2 episodes in, I'm finding that I'm enjoying CW's Flash tv series just as much, if not more, than Gotham. The setting up for future character's to appear and such has been done pretty well, and I'm loving the easter eggs so far. Like "Hex's Gun Shop" at the beginning of episode 2, and a quick passing reference of "Ronnie" (Firestorm), which makes sense since Episode 2 featured a villain from his rogues gallery (Multiplex).

Good to hear it's getting good ratings for CW. Looks like another winner for them.  :)

Just caught the pilot. Off to a good start. Enjoyed the Arrow cameo and their behind-the-back reactions to each other's skills/powers.

Loved the passing of the torch scene between Gustin and Shipp.

Very interested in where Tom Cavanagh's character is going and what he's up to.

Still enjoying the show, and oh yeah, the teaser with Grodd in the latest episode, was very cool!

I'm enjoying the show as well, I rank it a solid ssecond behind Gotham. I think they need to focus more on his skill development and his relationship with his partners at Starlabs and ease off off a bit off the Iris story line.  Don't want to see him sort of whine for an entire episode while fighting off a villain.  Very good effects as well.

I've been catching up with this show, it's pretty fun. It's definitely better than this season's Arrow.

I've warmed up to this Gustin guy as Barry Allen, but I'll always prefer Shipp in the role. I thought the best episode was the mid-season finale with the Reverse-Flash - great villain. The latest episode had a cameo appearance of Gorilla Grodd attacking two sewage workers underground. The CGI was good too.

Grodd is a very formidable villain. There should definitely be recurring episodes as we see him increase in intelligence.

The Grodd segments have been nothing but aces so far.

I can safely say that this show has been pretty incredible, and most assuredly one of the more enjoyable superhero genre shows out there right now.

Mark Hamill reprised his role as James Jesse aka the original Trickster this week, it was fun! 8)

Every time Hamill spoke sounded exactly like Arkham Joker. I thought he said he was retiring the voice?  ;)

What made the episode even better was it made tons of references to the original 1990s TV series: including screenshots taken from an episode of Hamill's James Jesse in court while Barry and company are investigating on their computer monitors back at Star Labs, and a shot of the original Trickster costume when Barry Allen and Joe West investigate the Trickster's lair as they try to lean more of a mysterious copycat. And of course John Wesley Shipp made yet another cameo, and Vito D'Ambrosio who played Officer Bellows in the original series appeared in a cameo too - as Central City's mayor. What a way to complete a fine tribute.

I've been enjoying The Flash a lot. Grant Gustin is really growing into the role, and his relationships with Joe and Iris West, Cisco Ramon, Harrison Wells etc is making everything worthwhile. I don't want to get into spoiler territory for those who haven't watched the show yet, but I'll say this - a certain man in yellow is definitely a huge menace as the big bad this season.

Very good show, which is a lot more than I can positively say about this season's Arrow, sadly.

Can't believe I haven't commented in this thread- this season of Flash blew Arrow's season out of the water. The Trickster episode with Mark Hamill may have been my favorite ep so far, complete with the backstory of how the Reverse Flash disguised himself as Wells. Tom Cavanagh's Wells/Thawne/Reverse Flash is my favorite villain out of the many nemeses in the CW-verse so far.

SPOILERS
I do think they repeated Arrow a bit too much, though, in basically having Eddie Thawne be a cop version of Tommy Merlyn: he's a red herring 'cause his name is the same as the hero's main nemesis, but he turns out to be a relative instead. He's the boyfriend of the female lead, even though we know that character will end up as the protagonist, and grows jealous of her relationship with the hero. And then at the end, he dies, partially due to the actions of his evil relative.

At the same time, also like Tommy and Laurel, the Iris-Eddie romance felt peripheral to what was going on for a long time. Thankfully they didn't string Iris along like Laurel and she was able to learn Barry's secret and be a part of the group. Personally, I think it should've happened way earlier in the season.

There's been criticisms of the time travel ending, saying that wiping out Reverse Flash's existence should've killed the whole timeline rather than just taken him out, but the way I saw it, the singularity/black hole grew to astronomical proportions due to Eddie's suicide wiping out the timeline.

I do hope that, after a whole season of character development, Season 2 doesn't suddenly take place in an alternate timeline, like fans are speculating. I think it's more likely that Season 2 will explore different timelines and maybe villains from other timelines will find their way into ours, but the core settings of the show in Central City, STAR Labs, etc. will remain intact.

I enjoyed this season quite a bit. STAR labs was great, Cisko and Snow played well off each other, there will be a void to fill without Wells.

I feel this show is beating Arrow in two areas; 1) clear motive; Barry has the goal of saving his father in the back of his mind and we get the sense that would be a climax. Arrow started out with the black book but that has been abandoned 2) far better villains. Grod,Golden glider, captain cold, Firestorm, Heat wave, and the clock king have all been outstanding adversaries let alone the arch enemy the reverse flash.

Overall my favourite moment was Caitlyn and Barry going to karaoke and the drunken Caitlyn singing so awful before finding out Barry can sing.

I originally had very low expectations for this show.

*sigh*

You all know how amazing it is. So what I'll try to say that maybe nobody has before is what works for me with this series is how the showrunners don't seem bent on setting up a status quo and then slowly adjust it as time goes.

As an example of what I mean, look at Smallville. If you watch the pilot episode and then watch the 2nd season premiere, there's not a radical difference in most characters lives. A few minor things but mostly basically the same. It was a very slow evolution. So slow, in fact, that I think it's really the 6th season premiere before the viewer can say that the show was officially dealing in a completely different status quo now.

The Flash isn't doing that. The status quo was arguably smithereens by the 17th or 18th episode OF THE VERY FIRST SEASON. It's like the showrunners weren't saving anything for later. No matter what the outcome of this sucker may be, that's an incredibly ballsy way to make a show.

Thoughts on the latest season?

Loving how they brought Cavanagh/Wells back in a way that didn't seem corny. Since his daughter is Jesse Quick, perhaps this version of Wells becomes...Johnny Quick?

A little disappointed in what they did with Jay Garrick, especially his last episode painting him as more of a coward and an inferior Flash to Barry. I get that giving Jay his speed and making him more experienced/better than Barry would paint the protagonist in a bad light, but it seems that Jay's had little to do after his Flash of Two Worlds episode and now that Wells is back, Jay's role as mentor has kinda vanished.

Patty Spivot, like Linda before her, is still coming across as a better love interest than Iris, though admittedly Irish has improved since last season.

Any guesses on Zoom's identity? The latest guesses online have been Earth 2 Barry and Earth 2 Henry Allen. Part of me wants it to be Eddie Thawne (or at least Earth 2 Eddie Thawne) since his cop backstory matches up with Hunter Zolomon (the Zoom in the comics), but that wouldn't explain how he's still alive (he has to be dead in order for Reverse Flash to have disappeared) or why he'd turn evil.

Elements of Zoom's agenda remind me of Savitar, especially that agenda of wanting to be the only speedster in the game and whatnot.

I must say the idea of Earth 2 Harrison Wells becoming Johnny Quick hadn't occurred to me... but I am rather fond of the idea.

I've seen the Henry Allen thing myself. I kind of like that idea in that it gives Barry an emotional vulnerability in dealing with Zoom. It's got a lot of disco potential.

Overall the Flash is the best of the DCTVU. The characters are tons of fun, the stories are close enough to the comics to satisfy core fans but different enough to surprise them. I find Iris kind of annoying but, hey, nothing is perfect in life, right?

SPOILERS

Last night revealed that Jay Garrick's Earth 1 counterpart is Hunter Zolomon, which is the name of Zoom in the comics.

I'm surprised that they revealed this in such a casual manner. However, I'm not sure if this is supposed to mean that Hunter is our Zoom. Let's remember that we've had red herrings aplenty in this universe. We all thought that Wintergreen was Deathstroke, Tommy Merlyn would become Merlyn the archer, Eddie Thawne was a young Eobard, and, if we bring in Supergirl, Hank Henshaw was going to be Cyborg Superman. These all turned out to be deceptive.

You'd also have to explain this guy's motivation. How did he get his powers? Did he get it from the particle acclerator explosion? If so, why wasn't he doing anything on our world until this season? Why was he targeting Jay in Earth 2 before targeting Barry in Earth 1?

Or...is Jay Garrick from Earth 2 actually Zoom? It'd be a cheat since we saw the two of them fight, but you could say it was a case of an unreliable narrator. His motivation could also stem from him dying and he needs more of the Speed Force to cure himself. Or perhaps this is a Jekyl/Hyde thing where not even Jay realizes his alter ego.

Either way, I think there has to be a reason why Jay's doppleganger is Hunter Zolomon.

MAJOR SPOILERS

And it looks like the reason why is because the same actor is playing Zoom.

Here are my late night rumblings on how the Jay Garrick-is-Zoom stuff works. I don't usually put this much thought into my own predictions/theories, but the last time I did this, it was for Sherlock and I got it 90% right, so here goes:

I'm kinda wondering why they named this character Zoom in the first place. He's got very little in common with the Zoom in the comics. In the source material, Zoom is essentially the Reverse-Flash to Wally West's Flash. Hunter Zolomon was Wally's former cop friend before getting paralyzed by Gorilla Grodd and grew mad when Wally refused to travel back in time to prevent it. He ended up getting his own powers and a suit nearly identical to Reverse Flash's and the rest is history.

None of this is in the TV Zoom. If anything, I believe that Zoom is actually more of an adaptation of a different villain named Cobalt Blue. Like TV Zoom, he's out to steal speed and succeeds, at one point, in stealing Jay Garrick's speed. Like TV Zoom, he's followed by a blue essence (a flame in the comics, blue lightning in Zoom's case).

Oh, and he's also the twin brother of Barry Allen.

So, what if in the Flash TV show universe, it was Jay Garrick who had the secret twin brother, not Barry?

We know that on Earth One, Mrs. Garrick died in child birth. The boy grew up to become adopted by the Zolomons with the name Hunter Zolomon. We can assume that what Jay told Caitlin in the park is correct since Caitlin was unable to find a record of any Jay Garrick in existence on Earth One.

In my theory, on Earth Two, Mrs. Garrick not only survived giving birth, but she also gave birth to twins- Jay Garrick and Hunter Zolomon.

The following is Cobalt Blue's birth story:
"On the stormy night of May 13, two pregnant women came to the office of Fallville, Iowa's Dr. Gilmore. However, the doctor had been drinking, and he had sent his nurse home.

The child of one of the women, Charlene Thawne, had been strangled on its own umbilical cord, and Gilmore was too intoxicated to save the poor baby. However, the other woman, Nora Allen, successfully gave birth to twin boys. Gilmore, trying to be fair, gave one of the twins to the Thawne family, telling the Allens that one of their children had been stillborn. The twin that remained with the Allens was named Barry, and he grew up to be the Flash. The other twin, however, was raised by the Thawnes, and he was named Malcolm."
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Malcolm_Thawne_(New_Earth)

Replace Charlene Thawne with Mrs. Zolomon, Nora Allen with Mrs. Garrick, Barry with Jay, and Malcolm with Hunter. You'd get two boys: Jay goes with his mom, Mrs. Garrick. Hunter goes with the other mother, Mrs. Zolomon.

Mrs. Garrick would get to raise her son, Jay, who would become The Flash in the particle accelerator explosion.

Hunter Zolomon, however, would get a sh*tty childhood, like Malcolm Thawne. When the particle accelerator went off, maybe he gained the same speed that night as Jay (considering he and Jay have the same DNA. Notice how both Mardon brothers got weather controlling powers on Earth One?).

When he discovered Jay's existence as the Flash and that he was a renown hero and got to grow up with a loving family, he was envious of Jay's life and decided to take it for his own, by finding a way to steal his speed.

He went on to become Zoom and seek to outdo the Flash and become his own "fastest man alive."

(Now, on this Earth, Zoom's costume seems suspiciously modeled after Barry's Flash costume. Look at the lightning on the sides of the head as well as the logo on the chest. My theory is that since Cisco came up with that suit for Barry on Earth One, Cisco/Reverb designed the same thing for Zoom on Earth Two and was Zoom's ally for awhile in telling him what was going on at the other Earth).

Jay in the meantime became a hero around Central City and figured out that Harrison Wells was behind the particle accelerator explosion and the birth of the metas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB19IyHGpTk

This is the one of the few times that we've actually seen the real Jay Garrick/Flash from Earth Two. Notice how more confident and competent Jay seems to be in this clip compared to what we're used to?

Also take into account that Eobard Thawne may have some knowledge of Jay Garrick being the Flash on Earth Two and is scared of him, considering his reaction to seeing the helmet in Season 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3WNruGergk
This hardly seems like the useless Jay we know. I'd like to think that the real Jay Garrick Flash of Earth Two is someone just as competent, if not more, than Barry's Flash. We're talking about the first Flash of all comic history here. The man helped train Batman in the Brave and the Bold cartoon, for God's sake.

Anyways, Zoom went on to kidnap Wells's daughter, Jessie. Jay Garrick knew this and went off to fight Zoom, where Zoom stabbed and injured him. When the singularity opened up, it took Jay's helmet.

Unlike the flashback, however, the singularity closed and Jay was injured enough that Zoom captured him and somehow stole his speed. Zoom took away his Flash costume and locked him up and likely revealed that he was Jay's twin brother. He then put Jay in the iron mask (much like the classic Dumas story, where the "good" twin was locked up with the mask) to not give away the fact that Jay/Flash had been captured. The mask also likely mutes his voice (otherwise, why couldn't the guy just say what he wanted to?).

Discovering the breaches to another earth, Zoom traveled to Earth One and discovered they had their own Flash there. He developed his plan to steal Barry's speed from him too. He looked up his doppelganger and discovered that on this Earth, only baby Hunter survived.

He visits Earth One Hunter and finds out that the man, instead of having speed powers, is dying of a disease (Possibly due to the accelerator explosion. Remember how King Shark's Earth One counterpart died from complications from the accelerator accident rather than fully transformed?).

Zoom knows that the Speed Force may help cure Earth One Hunter and uses this as leverage to convince his doppelganger to spy for him so he can gain the speed powers that will help cure him. In reality, Zoom needs a spy to find out more about this Earth's Flash.

Earth One Hunter, then, becomes the "Jay Garrick" we've met. This is why he spies on the team and takes him so damn long between Season 1 and Season 2 to actually come up and talk to them. He was getting prepped by Zoom. Everything he knows about the Speed Force or from Earth Two is actually told to him from Zoom, who then gave him Jay's uniform to wear. His story about getting sucked into the singularity (after fighting Zoom) or developing his own Velocity serum is complete fiction.

More evidence that our Jay wasn't the real Jay? Caitlin. He falls for Caitlin, without much conflict. However on Earth Two, Killer Frost and Reverb were villains who fought with Jay Garrick. If this were the real Jay, wouldn't he have had SOME conflict with being attracted to Caitlin and working with Cisco? Look how thrown off Barry and Cisco were when they met their doppelgangers and then had to come back to Earth One and adjust to life.

I suspect Zoom actually has plans for Caitlin's Velocity 9 and used the fact that Hunter/"Jay" was dying as a way to get her to develop it. When they find that Caitlin's been digging into who "Jay's" doppelganger is, Zoom himself puts on the glasses and appears at the park bench in order for "Jay" to tell her the story of Hunter Zolomon.

This explains how "Jay" was able to conveniently know that Hunter would be at that park bench at that time on that day. It was all part of the plan to gain Caitlin's sympathy, get her to stop looking into his past, and instead get her to work on the velocity serum.

Notice how, once she was done and Velocity 9 was successfully, "Jay" was killed? He outlived his usefulness.

Now Earth One Hunter Zolomon is dead, leaving the REAL Jay Garrick in the prison cell and the Earth Two Hunter Zolomon as Zoom.

It's complicated as Hell and nowhere near as cool as last year's "Eobard Thawne became Harrison Wells" twist. But this helps redeem the pretty poor treatment of Jay Garrick so far on the show by revealing that we actually haven't seen much of him yet, incorporates comic book elements that the show hasn't adapted yet, fills in a few holes in the plot over the past season, and ultimately, makes sense as to how there could be three Jays, without getting into clone territory or "He's from YET ANOTHER EARTH!!!"

***MASSIVE SPOILERS***



...

Quote
As predictable as it was, the identity of the masked man who Zoom had taken prisoner and stole his speed from was the real Jay Garrick - Henry Allen's Earth Three doppelganger! Maybe John Welsey Shipp as Jay Garrick will return in Legends of Tomorrow, since the Justice Society of America was namedropped in that show's finale.

So Barry copied Zoom's skills in creating a time remnant to beat him in the race, and Zoom has been taken prisoner by the Speed Force. But now Barry has gone back in time and saved his mother from being murdered by Reverse-Flash.

I must say, I thought the first season was better than the second, as were the finales. I guess next season will involve a lot of retcons? I wasn't too thrilled that as soon as Barry finally came to terms with his mother's death in that episode Kevin Smith directed, his father dies and went back to square one. Oh well, still better than Arrow Season 3.

Agreed on all fronts.

Felt Zoom was a repeat of Reverse Flash, but less interesting. We have yet another evil speedster stealing someone else's identity and posing as a mentor to Barry to get his speed up so that he could use his speed in the finale to power a device that will fulfill his end goal. (Said speedster also kills one of Barry's parents). Hope next season has a much different villain.

By the time Zoom was revealed, people had already predicted it. I think they should've pushed the reveal earlier and, if they were gonna kill off Barry's dad, kill him before the Runaway Dinosaur episode and make that one about him coming to grips with the deaths of both parents before moving on and taking on Zoom.

As predictable as it was for the man in the iron mask to be the real Jay, there was a ton of joy out of seeing John Wesley Shipp as the real Jay Garrick. Love that his colors were brighter than fake Jay's. Wish there was more of him to see. Now let's get a real Flash of Two Worlds crossover next season!

It looks like in this world, Earth Three is the one with the Silver Age heroes like Jay whereas Earth Two has all the reverse stuff where the good guys are bad and the bad guys are good (i.e. Wells, Hewitt, Snart).

Didn't like Barry going back in time and saving his mom. Felt completely abrupt. Plus, I thought we explored enough with alternate worlds/timelines this season and Barry coming to grips with his mom's death. Now we'll have to see that again?! No thanks.

Still, I'd say Flash Season 2 was still better than Arrow these past couple seasons. Let's hope Flash Season 3 doesn't drop in quality like Arrow did.

When the Flash's doppelganger evaporated while running around the Maganatar, it reminded me of his heroic sacrifice to stop the Anti- Monitor in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

I liked how timeless Earth Two looked, and I thought it resembled a lot like a DCAU city in live action. I don't think we have seen such a timeless looking city in live action since Burton's Batman films.

I haven't kept up with this show, but this Kid Flash costume looks awesome.

I was honestly expecting them to go the New 52 route with the gray suit since Wally is black, like the New 52 Wally, and in this continuity, Barry famously called Reverse Flash "The Man in Yellow." This looks like a pretty faithful representation, but I also wonder what they'll say in terms of why Wally picks the yellow. Does Cisco retrofit Thawne's suit 'cause it's the only one left?

Also, Silver, I think you'll find the "man in the iron mask" scenes in the Season 2 finale alone worth checking out.

I would like to see more of this show. I watched most of the first season. Based on that, I thought it was the best live action TV series DC has produced since the nineties. I was surprised by how bold they were in making it a full on superhero show, with costumes, powers, super villains and storylines taken straight from the comics. When the series was first announced, I recall predicting it would be another 'no flights, no tights' affair. But I admit I was totally wrong on that score.

Of course there are things about the series I'm not so keen on. It's still haunted by that teen soap opera vibe that permeates all CW shows, and I find the Smallville-esque narrative about Barry pining after Iris very predictable and tiresome. I also think DC's TV content in general is nowhere near the calibre of Marvel's Netflix shows. But The Flash is still a good series. At least from what I've seen.

My favourite aspect of the first season was definitely Tom Cavanagh as Reverse Flash. He was great in the role and they did a surprisingly good job of representing his costume and powers on a network TV budget.


Reverse Flash has always been my favourite Flash baddie. He's also one of the most powerful and dangerous villains in the entire DC universe. But I thought they did him justice here. With all due respect to Mark Hamill's Trickster, I'd probably say Cavanagh's Reverse Flash is the best live action DC villain outside of the Batman and Superman franchises.

Though that could change on August 5th...

People criticized the Flash's second season as a sophomore slump. I was able to look beyond that (A) because so many of the Flash's heavy hitters have already been introduced and I'm really not sure how much is left and (B) they threw in so many fanboy tidbits that I decided to go with it. The second season has so many similarities to season 1 as to be (at least superficially) derivative.

But what I'll always come back to is how many risks and chances the Flash production has taken. It was probably the dreaded fourth season of Smallville before their status quo started seriously getting challenged. By comparison, the Flash seems to come up with a new status quo every several episodes. They could've stretched certain things several seasons and I honestly don't think anybody would've complained. But they don't always play it safe. That doesn't necessarily guarantee a great outcome... but it does mean this show wants to be the best it can be.

I think Kid Flash looks cool, I just hope he's around more for Flashpoint, than the modern day Wally. I don't want this show to be too crowded with superheros, and stumble in the same way Arrow did.

We'll see though. I can't wait for the new season to start in Oct.

Check out the trailer for season 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LGQRbPERaU

Yup, I watched it a few days ago. I can't wait for season 3.  8)