Batman-Online.com

Download the full edit here:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/3aanvfx8vj19y8g/Batman+Forever+-+Virtual+Workprint. mp4

Alternate "vintage" version in slightly higher quality:
http://www.mediafire.com/watch/w5177zg6pwzs5ug/BF_Virtual_Workprint_(Vintage). mp4

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Hey guys, first time poster here. I just thought I'd share that I've been working on an extended cut of Batman Forever off and on for about a year now. I know there are a few other fan edits out there that incorporate the extra scenes from the DVD, but this one's a little different. The idea of this edit is to imagine what it may have been like to see an earlier, longer cut of the movie with as much extra footage included as possible. It includes all of the deleted material from the DVD + extra/alternate shots from the trailers, with some of the extra scenes just slightly re-edited to make them flow better since they obviously came from a very rough cut of the film. Extra special care has been taken with the editing to make sure the new material is integrated as seamlessly as possible, including completed sound design and score for all the extra bits. I utilized parts of Elliot Goldenthal's scores from Forever and Batman & Robin to complete the music, which is one of the main differences between this version and other fan edits (most of those had Danny Elfman's music laid under the extra scenes, which I never really thought fit). I also made some very minor adjustments to the original footage to reflect the kind of differences you'd find in an actual workprint. Anyways, just wanted to let you all know it's close to being finished and I hope to be able to share it with anyone interested once it's done.

PS

Here's a small sample of the work that's been done on the deleted opening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYWdbfMldPk

Nice first post....welcome!

I like the pacing of the video, good job.

That was simply OUTSTANDING!

Welcome aboard, BTW.  8)

Thanks guys. I've tweaked the audio for the sequence a bit more since I uploaded that video, but you get the idea. I'll probably put up the scene where Bruce finds his father's journal in the cave soon so you can see how that has turned out.

Very nicely done.

I'm curious about what shots from the trailer you'll be incorporating.

Stuff from the trailers includes:

- An extra bit of dialogue from Edward Nygma's first meeting with Bruce Wayne ("Bruce Wayne... in the flesh!" followed by a shot of bruce looking slightly weirded out)

- Very brief extra shot of lights flying by in the tunnel as Bruce makes his descent from Wayne Enterprises to the Batcave. I tried to incorporate the extra line ("I've left Wayne Enterprises en route to the batcave") but it wasn't possible because I couldn't get the dialogue cleanly enough.

- An extra shot of Two-Face while his thugs unload their ammo into the elevator at the bank (actually from one of the music videos)

- Alternate angles of Batman as he swings down from the roof of the elevator, knocking down Two-Face's thugs

- Alternate shot of Batman discovering the guard in the bank vault

- Brief alternate angle of Batman as he fires a grappling hook into the bank wall

- The "If the bat wants to play, we'll play!" line from Two-Face in the chopper is included

- Alternate angle of the chopper crashing through the neon sign

- An extra shot of the Batmobile speeding down the street is added to the "Beauty and the Batman" scene from the DVD

- Two alternate angles of the Riddler during the destruction of the batcave sequence

- An alternate angle with Robin after he gives Two-Face a beating on Claw island


... I think that's all of 'em.  ;D

Well, it certainly sounds like an interesting project. Looking forward to seeing it.

I myself have played around with some Batman Forever edits but I've never gotten one anywhere near completion. Maybe one day I'll get around to at least completing a few scenes.

Yeah, it will be a refreshing touch to see a fan edit embrace and enhance Schumacher's vision instead of trying to Burtonise of Elfmanise it.

That was one of the reasons I wanted to do it. I think it might be the first edit that doesn't try to add any extra Burton-ish elements.

As of right now it's like, 96% done. Just a little more sound work is needed for some of the deleted stuff. Plus I've been doing some experimenting with color correction for the additional footage. Also, in an effort to make the transitions into the added scenes a little more seamless, I've added some filters to everything from the theatrical version to give it a rougher, slightly dirty look quality-wise. IMO it adds very nicely to the whole fake workprint feel as well.  ;)

A little update...

So, if anyone's wondering what's going on with this (which I'm sure is probably, like, two of you :D) I've run into a couple unfortunate snags. First my macbook went on the fritz, preventing me from further editing. Worse than that, a few days ago my cat knocked over the hard drive I've been saving everything on since I started. Sadly I can't check to see if anything has been damaged until my mac is up and running again. Hopefully I'll have that all sorted in the next couple weeks. If the project can't be recovered, I do have a couple small, lower quality versions of the edit in it's most recent state saved that I can upload. I was hoping to give you guys something much better image-wise, but it may be my only option depending on how the fall might've affected the files. Even if that's the case I still encourage anyone who was interested in checking it out, it's a great treat for any fan of the movie and lots of hard work was put into it.  :)

Hope it all works out!

That's unfortunate. I hope everything works out for you.

You know how to work a score! I'd love to see this in total.. that opener was top notch!

the red lightening was great!

Good news guys. Got the macbook fixed and all the data seems to be fine. The full edit is coming soon, but until then here's another clip!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8MMJ9NeHg

EDIT: Youtube couldn't seem to decide whether or not to block the audio, looks like it's resolved now though.

Also, this is a good scene for the late Michael Gough. RIP

I like it, you're staying true to Schumacher's vision, but making it all seemless and enjoyable.

Any news?

Hey again guys.

Apologies for disappearing with this. I got the edit about 99% done, but further computer problems and general life changes kinda contributed to it all slipping away from me for a while. I do have a basically-complete cut that's been sitting on my computer for a couple years that I can share if people are still interested, I'm just not sure what the best way of going about it would be. Right now it's a *gigantic* Final Cut movie file, still need to figure out what the best format to export it to for downloading would be. Unfortunately Final Cut 6 seems to be unable to export it without having some strange side effects on the brightness and contrast during a couple scenes, and I'm really not technically minded enough to know why. ;D But if you guys can deal with that and the fact that it's not in crystal-clear HD, I'd like to put it out there.

Sounds great, whenever you're ready, man.

Should have a link up by Monday. :)

Edit: New version will be up soon.  :)

So, here it is. Sorry again about the image quality, it's partially because I actually degraded the theatrical footage a bit to make the transition into the deleted stuff a little more smooth, but also because I just haven't been able to export the whole thing at a higher quality without running into a bunch of problems. Still got a few bats in the computer, I guess. I'll keep working on it, but I figured I should just put up or shut up already. Hope this suffices for now.  8)

I look forward to a higher quality version at some point, but still, what we get is stunning! HD obviously isn't viable because the deleted scenes are SD-only, but higher bitrate/anamorphic/with end credits would be my only wishes.

Dude, you've done what I've always dreamed of seeing. Not only re-integrating the deleted scenes with Goldenthal's score and proper sound editing (the degradation of the theatrical footage was barely distracting actually, and it flowed perfectly, even the slight color desaturation was neat), but restoring Schmacher's vision, as opposed to enforcing someone else's.

BF is too rife with elements people dislike to morph it into an entirely different film. If you wanted to make Two-Face seem more calm (for example), you can't do it because he's manic in scenes that are too important to cut away, etc... Likewise, trying to make it into a Burton film doesn't work because it doesn't have enough of the Burtonisms and you can't replace the score unless you have access to the dialogue and foley tracks to remake the sound mix. So choosing to just enhance the film by working within its boundaries was the smartest thing to do.

The reintegration of deleted scenes and the rejiggering of the opening act into its scripted form together give the film a different feel. Big credits up first, then Harvey's escape, Wayne inspection and then to the Bank is great because it doesn't hit us with Batman right away. We get teased with a foreboding threat in Two-Face, then we get a taste of Wayne first, being a straight-laced businessman... then into the Batcave for his transformation. It works much better than the theatrical, which is not bad or anything, but this has the quality of thoughtful writing, building our anticipation to see this new Dark Knight swing into action.

Even the continuence of the opening credits once he gets to the Batcave (unavoidable as it's in the theatrical footage) isn't distracting like I thought. It's part of that release of anticipation, as if once the narrative started, everything else must stop until Batman enters the picture. Making the Arkham escape and the Wayne inspection sort of a prologue.

The Red Book subplot was the emotional heart of the film, and seeing it seamlessly merged back in not only makes the film feel more fulfilling and complete, but also makes the ripples throughout the story we all knew it would. I'd also like to point out how the scene with Bruce watching the news reporter's rant against Batman enriches the scenes afterward.

The point is well raised about just how helpful Batman is, and if he attracts the freaks to the city, thus making Bruce feel even more uncertain about what's right. Compound that with his worry for Dick and fears that Chase only likes the Bat, and you really, really feel for the guy, in the same way you did for Keaton's Wayne, which I found surprising. It greatly improves Kilmer's already nuanced performance, which makes sense since he was acting with the continuity of these scenes in his mind. It also lends greater resonance to his shut-down-the-Batcave scene later, because now you see just how pent-up these feelings have been. After his meeting with Chase, the "Riddler/Two-Face find out" scene feels much darker. You've just seen how Batman is at his wit's end and is having trouble holding it together... and now the two most dangerous men in Gotham know his biggest secret. It's foreboding and spooky, because the improved narrative makes us wonder if Bruce is up-to facing what's coming (which he wasn't, we know).

It's funny, even though you know the deleted scenes, bringing them back into context gives them a whole new quality. I highly, highly recommend this cut as the best way to view the film.

Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Sun, 27 Apr  2014, 23:41
BF is too rife with elements people dislike to morph it into an entirely different film. If you wanted to make Two-Face seem more calm (for example), you can't do it because he's manic in scenes that are too important to cut away, etc... Likewise, trying to make it into a Burton film doesn't work because it doesn't have enough of the Burtonisms and you can't replace the score unless you have access to the dialogue and foley tracks to remake the sound mix. So choosing to just enhance the film by working within its boundaries was the smartest thing to do.

I really could not have said it any better myself. This was basically my entire motivation to do this, and you've seen perfectly what I hoped a fan would see in it. Thank you for the kind words.

My only dissatisfaction with this project is that *all* the deleted material wasn't available to reinstate, and so it still feels partially incomplete to me. I'd still love to see the construction of Nygmatech, Bruce and Alfred examining the Box, Riddler knocking out Chase, even the final shot as it was originally conceived (though my guess is that the visual fx were probably never completed). While they're not necessarily integral to the plot, everything that was taken out enriches the story, makes the overall scale that much bigger, and helps everything make a little more sense. Still, I attempted to do the next best thing with what's out there. 

Also, I'm not sure if I ended up putting the deleted conversation between Bruce and Dick in quite the right spot. From what I can remember (it's been a couple years) I was looking to the latest available draft of the script as a guide for how to re-structure things, but was unable to find an equivalent to that scene anywhere. Even though it's supposedly the production draft, it still differs greatly in many spots to what we see in the film, so I assume they must've taken one more pass at it before filming and/or rewritten a lot along the way. I tried my best to fit it in a way that worked, though.

Just saw it an was very impressed! It seemed like a whole new movie, though I've seen this movie the 3rd most next to 89 and Returns. 

I was amazed at how clear the story is now and things makes so much for sense!

Also, I am super impressed by your video editing skills!

Yeah, I'll be honest. I'd say 95-99% of fan editors make horrible, jarring mistakes. From something as simple as not making sure all the audio that's newly added is equalized properly, to worse things like editing something into swiss cheese just to remove things that rubs their geekiness the wrong way. I was afraid, given the promise of this edit's intent, that the skills would not be up to snuff, but they were. For example, I_Only not only added foley to the deleted scenes, but doesn't drown out the dialogue with foley or music, but also remembers the logistics of proper sound design. The Batcave viewing of the anti-Batman editorial on TV contains a proper cave echo on the TV and Bruce/Alfred's dialogue that isn't on the scene to start with, I don't think. It's the perfect touch that blends the footage back into the film seamlessly, but also adds authenticity to the edit.

This is better put together than 99% of the fanedits I've seen. Yeah, honestly, which of us wouldn't want to trim a little of Two-Face's goofiness? Well, it can't be done, so don't fight it. Personally, I really was so satisfied with the film that I'm no longer bothered by such little things, and I think this newer, fleshed-out cut only serves to prove not only Schumacher's qualities as a director of narrative, but also the difference between this and Batman & Robin. B&R is nowhere near as much of a 'real' film as BF is. This cut's expansion of the storyline turns what was already contender for the best Batman film story and clinches it. It's the best exploration of Bruce Wayne yet put to film, and your edit gives it more nuance and room to breathe.

This edit, as far as I'm concerned, is the perfect capper to the trilogy Tim Burton inadvertantly began.

Thank you again, Doc. It really means a lot.

Still warring with the machines to make the aspect ratio work, lol. I know, it should be simple.

Takes about six hours to render each time, so I'm gonna take a break for tonight. ;)

I hope an mpeg-standard version will come in the near future, since I would love to be able to play this on my PS3!

what is new on Version 2? ;D

Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Mon, 28 Apr  2014, 06:35
I hope an mpeg-standard version will come in the near future, since I would love to be able to play this on my PS3!

Should have it ready pretty soon.  8)

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 28 Apr  2014, 07:37
what is new on Version 2? ;D

;D Was trying to correct an issue with the frame size, though it didn't quite work. I think I've finally figured it out though, so the kinks should be all worked out on the next revision.

You know, I hope this gets popular enough so that Joel can actually re-assemble his version someday. Though if that never happens, at least we've still got this to watch.  ;)

Quote from: Slash Man on Tue, 29 Apr  2014, 21:27
You know, I hope this gets popular enough so that Joel can actually re-assemble his version someday.

That would be awesome.

Proper mp4 upload will be up in a couple days, just making a couple last tweaks.

Good work! I'm glad I finally got to see this. Kind of wish that some of the bits like the "I'll get drive-thru" and "Holy rusted metal, Batman" were kept in. Guess it's because I've grown to love them, but they do get in the way of the tone that's trying to be established in this edit. The hair salon scene still makes me feel depressed as ever, but it's a good addition to explain where Batman was during those crimes. Good job there with the green static to give an impression at what was going on there. Wish that shot of Bruce's tear wasn't repeated, but you probably didn't have anything to cover it with, so I'll live with it. Anyways, excellent job at making something out of those deleted scenes on the DVD and giving us a taste at what could have been if Warners went all Superman II: The Donner Cut with this film, because like that film, Batman Forever was the film that had so much potential if it was fully realized from its inception. When you do your final cut, send it over to Fan-Edit.org. I'm sure they'll get a kick out of it.

Thanks for the compliments.  :) I actually repeated the tear shot intentionally to kind of make the two sequences 'rhyme'. I pretty much see the bat as Bruce rediscovering a memory from his childhood, so I wanted to use a similar repeating style for a couple shots as it was done in the other flashbacks.

And yeah, I know some probably won't be happy with the salon scene, but as you said it offers an explanation as to why Batman hasn't shown up to stop Riddler and Two-Face's robberies.

Better quality, properly framed file should be up by tomorrow.

Just re-iterating how much I love this edit: I'd only skimmed it before to see the changes in context, but didn't watch it all the way through. I did now and it was even better with a proper viewing! I CANNOT RECOMMEND THIS EDIT ENOUGH. Perfect gift for the film's 20th anniversary next year!

Quite a bit of 'silly' bits were trimmed, but the trimming was damn-near seamless! Even more impressed! Especially loved the inclusion of a few bits from the trailers/Seal music video (new shots of Batman and Two-Face during the bank scenes) and the reinsertion of "If the Bat wants to play, we'll play!" (which is a line I always loved).

I also love the improved logic this edit brings to the Batmobile chase in the middle of the film. It's obvious that in the script it made sense, but it fell apart when it was moved around. But putting it back after the GCPD rooftop scene, it makes sense why Two-Face knew where Batman was, since they'd seen the signal too and would be ready to spring a trap, and they'd know he'd still be by the GCPD. Makes the scene less insipid.

What I wouldn't give to get this in HD from Warners themselves, in a special 20th anniversary pack of the first three films. For my money, the one true "Batman Trilogy."

Quote from: I_Only_Said on Mon, 28 Mar  2011, 21:20
Good news guys. Got the macbook fixed and all the data seems to be fine. The full edit is coming soon, but until then here's another clip!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8MMJ9NeHg

EDIT: Youtube couldn't seem to decide whether or not to block the audio, looks like it's resolved now though.

Also, this is a good scene for the late Michael Gough. RIP

I've only seen this clip of your edit, but that is absolutely stunning. Seamlessly done. I still like it enough as is, but a BF with all of the deleted scenes included is a damn good entry in the Batman series. I'm going to watch the whole thing.

Higher-quality mp4 version:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/3aanvfx8vj19y8g/Batman+Forever+-+Virtual+Workprint.mp4.

I'll also be uploading the 'vintage' version that has dust and film scratches to complete the illusion of it having been dug out of storage in a Warner Brothers vault somewhere. Yes, I actually went that far.  ???

I have seen your edit.

I agree with all Doc says. This is a phenomenal job and breathes new life into BF. The original sequencing of the film, which you present, is miles better. It has better pacing and feels more logical. The opening Arkham sequence connects well with the one at the end with Nygma. To think how BF could have been, all because that opening Akham scene was deemed too dark, yet later we see Two-Face shoot his helicopter pilot dead without a care.

The deleted scenes make a big difference as far as I am concerned, and honestly don't dislike any of them. Bruce regaining his memory in the batcave is wonderfully cinematic. Cutting that, and frankly the others, which do provide greater context to the plot, was such a silly idea. They had the material right there and chose not to include it. They weren't superfluous scenes.  Riddler's jamming device on the batmobile - the barber shop scene, provides answers to the audience and gives more power to the villain's scheme. In the scene, Batman is powerless and confused.

I am all for a 'Donner Cut' style BF release. I doubt it would happen, but I'd be all over it. This excellent re-edit makes me sad about the final cut WB released, because it's not the true representation of all BF could be. The Virtual Workprint edition of BF is a solid Batman movie - and feels a lot more like the capper to Burton's.

Again, great job.

I'll watch the whole thing a bit later but from skimming through it, it's clear you did an amazing job.

With most fanedits, especially of this film, it's quite clear when the movie transitions to a deleted scene. But with this cut, the changes aren't really that noticeable. If I hadn't seen the movie a million times before, I might not even have noticed some of the transitions.

I particularly liked how you incorporated some of the deleted helicopter footage which I'm sure wasn't easy to do due to the nature of the shots.

Quote from: phantom stranger on Sat, 10 May  2014, 19:54
I particularly liked how you incorporated some of the deleted helicopter footage which I'm sure wasn't easy to do due to the nature of the shots.

That's one portion which makes this feel more connected to Batman Returns. Two-Face commenting on Batman really being a killer.

Thanks guys, all the comments here have been tremendously nice to read.

Quote from: phantom stranger on Sat, 10 May  2014, 19:54
With most fanedits, especially of this film, it's quite clear when the movie transitions to a deleted scene. But with this cut, the changes aren't really that noticeable. If I hadn't seen the movie a million times before, I might not even have noticed some of the transitions.

Trying to match the picture quality of the theatrical and the deleted footage was a struggle throughout. I blended them as best I could given my resources. In the end, the transitions aren't 100% as good as I wanted them to be visually, but I still think it looks better than the other edits I've seen. I may make another go at getting everything a bit more consistent at some point.

Btw, props to one of the previous fan editors - might've been on The Red Book Edition, can't remember - for having the awesome idea of using that establishing shot of Arkham from B&R for the opening. That was the one thing I kinda copied. ;)

B&R also provided a handy exterior shot of Wayne Manor for the scene between Bruce and Dick, as well as some Batcave ambience for Bruce and Alfred's scene extension.

Also, here is the 'vintage' version. I prefer this one myself:
http://www.mediafire.com/watch/w5177zg6pwzs5ug/BF_Virtual_Workprint_(Vintage). mp4

I'd like to say a job well done to I_Only_Said for  putting these deleted scenes together to make this unofficial Director's Cut of the movie. You've done a great job of not only editing some of the worst lines, but also cleared up a few holes in the original cut. Bravo!  8)

Now onto my review. Apart from the try hard attempt at comedy, I've had problems with Batman Forever in the past because of things that didn't feel like a continuation of the Burton films. Mainly? The obvious recasting of Michael Keaton with Val Kilmer, and Billy Dee Williams with Tommy Lee Jones. Recasting happens in movies all the time, but in this case it does matter because Kilmer/Keaton and Jones/Williams look nothing alike. In Batman's case, it's a problem because Keaton and Kilmer are supposed to be the main character. In Two-Face's case, it's the same thing but it's even worse because of Jones and Williams' ethnicity. I know, it sounds simple, but I can't help it. The moment you do that, continuity is thrown out of the window to me.

But aside from those "nitpicks", this cut does flesh out a few holes in the movie and make sense of the characters actions. The only deleted scenes I saw were the red book/bat sequence and Dick training martial at Wayne Manor. But there are a lot of deleted scenes I've seen now that I wished they remained in the film. A good example is Batman being sent the wrong signal while chasing after Riddler and Two-Face's robberies around Gotham. That fixes that plot hole concerning Batman's whereabouts in the original cut.

As bad as Jones' acting is, I like how the deleted helicopter scene of Two-Face calling Batman a killer makes an even clearer link to the Burton films. Another scene I liked that makes a link to the Burton films is Batman being called to retire on a Gotham news show, and Alfred talks about the advantages of quitting i.e. Bruce's parents have been avenged. I'm fine with Bruce reconsidering that being Batman is holding him back and having a happy life with Chase Meridian, My only problem with the this scene is Bruce saying that he never fell in love before. What about his past with Vicki and Selina?!  *

*Off-topic: In the past, I used to believe that BF didn't adequately try to establish that Batman is changing his lethal ways because I thought it didn't it clearly acknowledge Batman's actions in the previous two films, and I used to think it was odd of him to discourage Dick from getting revenge over Two-Face. Now I realize I was wrong because I didn't pay attention to Bruce telling Dick about how revenge only makes the pain grow stronger and how he alludes that he continued to exact revenge against one criminal to another (i.e. Batman Returns).

I_Only_Said deserves a lot of credit of getting rid of certain junk e.g. the unnecessary crotch and ass close-ups, some overacting and dumb one-liners, and I reckon his editing makes Kilmer's Batman look even better. I hardly notice the nipples on the Batsuit unlike in the theatrical cut, and Kilmer's Batman sounds so much better when he speaks. Of course, some goofy things remain that can't be edited, but it goes to show how editing certain crap can make an actor's performance better. But as decent Kilmer is as Batman, I still find him dull as Bruce. I don't like his line delivery in the deleted scene with Dick training martial arts, he sounds too unfocused. I seriously thought Clooney was good as Bruce, and I think combining that together with Kilmer's Batman is a fine combination. 

With that being said, there are things that can't be fixed. Two-Face comes across as a second-rate Joker knock-off, and there's nothing you can do about it. The villains plot to hurt Batman is just as ineffective as Bane and Talia's plans in TDKR, it's pretty silly.

But despite my complaints about BF, I wish that we got this version as the final cut of the film. It makes Bruce's character development come around, and makes the plot more coherent. This cut would have made me appreciate the film better.

Been working on a cover for this fantastic edit!!

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.postimg.org%2Figu10ydpn%2FBatmanforever_DC_copy.jpg&hash=2a54af034a2aac5896990abd468a2dc18183f5d9)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs14.postimg.org%2Fjxiq0lnup%2FBatmanforever_UCprev.jpg&hash=c4ca1beca7f0ea11ccdc38a39e361a6c87fe1d1d)

Good stuff!  8)

Printed my cover today :D
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.postimg.org%2F9advsx8o9%2F12248465_10205017513027210_657996671_o.jpg&hash=6c18f93b76b450d29ca4c3c8df120e6076b50acb)

So, has anybody else noticed about the chatter online over#ReleaseTheSchumacherCut? I'd like to know if this fan edit is the closest thing we'll ever get, or there is more unseen footage locked up in a vault somewhere.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 11 Jul  2020, 03:58
So, has anybody else noticed about the chatter online over#ReleaseTheSchumacherCut? I'd like to know if this fan edit is the closest thing we'll ever get, or there is more unseen footage locked up in a vault somewhere.

I've seen a bit but I think that situation is a little bit different.

For one thing, I never got the impression that Schumacher ever wanted an alternate cut. Maybe I'm wrong but the impression I get is that the "director's cut" came out in theaters in 1995.

But the other thing is that even if he wanted a different cut then those materials might not be available or they might be in poor condition. Creating the new cut would not be easy to do.

I'm interested in watching a new cut of BF if one ever comes along, don't get me wrong. I just don't think a #ReleaseTheSchumacherCut thing is as realistic as ZSJL.

There does seem to be extra unfilmed things no released
(https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104418112_571572183732577_2309141646972228075_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQkHgbRAF5AVfRxfFGbUUkun_wUj7bORHupYc5D-p4CqMw4OX4Cj_WDAtRDWYNHQ_9n0zoPX_TzboGv8zgfYE72W&_nc_ht=scontent.ftpa1-1.fna&oh=a506983b357ada5703fbd7a232dcf303&oe=5F310539)

apparently there was an idea of an extended edition when they were working on the deluxe DVD release in the mid 2000's
https://lostmediaarchive.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_Forever_(original_160-minute_cut;_1995)

There are a lot of little bits seen in the various making-of, like Two-Face shooting the clown at the Circus

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 11 Jul  2020, 19:58
apparently there was an idea of an extended edition when they were working on the deluxe DVD release in the mid 2000's
https://lostmediaarchive.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_Forever_(original_160-minute_cut;_1995)

This time, I think it really was just a runtime issue on behalf of the studio. Schumacher's content wasn't re-filmed, and the majority of what he shot was retained, which is why I could see him not crying foul. He could've simply put it down to the sausage making process. But scenes were reordered, giving quite a different context and sense of flow. And as we've said, the deleted scenes transform the film into something more meaningful. Once I learned of the true scene ordering (Batmobile scene after meeting Chase on the rooftop, etc) I did find it rather annoying watching the Theatrical. Good thing I still have that edit saved.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 11 Jul  2020, 23:23

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 11 Jul  2020, 19:58
apparently there was an idea of an extended edition when they were working on the deluxe DVD release in the mid 2000's
https://lostmediaarchive.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_Forever_(original_160-minute_cut;_1995)

This time, I think it really was just a runtime issue on behalf of the studio. Schumacher's content wasn't re-filmed, and the majority of what he shot was retained, which is why I could see him not crying foul. He could've simply put it down to the sausage making process. But scenes were reordered, giving quite a different context and sense of flow. And as we've said, the deleted scenes transform the film into something more meaningful. Once I learned of the true scene ordering (Batmobile scene after meeting Chase on the rooftop, etc) I did find it rather annoying watching the Theatrical. Good thing I still have that edit saved.

I 100% feel the same way. Its funny how much little changes can drastically change things. I do wish we'd at least get all the deleted stuff ala Mrs. Doughtfire. There was almost a second film in there!

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun, 12 Jul  2020, 03:17

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 11 Jul  2020, 23:23

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 11 Jul  2020, 19:58
apparently there was an idea of an extended edition when they were working on the deluxe DVD release in the mid 2000's
https://lostmediaarchive.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_Forever_(original_160-minute_cut;_1995)

This time, I think it really was just a runtime issue on behalf of the studio. Schumacher's content wasn't re-filmed, and the majority of what he shot was retained, which is why I could see him not crying foul. He could've simply put it down to the sausage making process. But scenes were reordered, giving quite a different context and sense of flow. And as we've said, the deleted scenes transform the film into something more meaningful. Once I learned of the true scene ordering (Batmobile scene after meeting Chase on the rooftop, etc) I did find it rather annoying watching the Theatrical. Good thing I still have that edit saved.

I 100% feel the same way. Its funny how much little changes can drastically change things. I do wish we'd at least get all the deleted stuff ala Mrs. Doughtfire. There was almost a second film in there!

The Arkham opening being considered too dark (blood on the walls, etc) is one studio decision that wasn't runtime. The general tone in the majority of what Schumacher filmed wasn't exactly dark, but there was a balance that didn't really cross the line. It's a shame we didn't get that opening, but we all know the history of BR being a McNightmare for overprotective parents. From the studio's POV they'd know the beginning of a film is all about signalling tonal intent.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 12 Jul  2020, 04:01

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun, 12 Jul  2020, 03:17

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 11 Jul  2020, 23:23

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 11 Jul  2020, 19:58
apparently there was an idea of an extended edition when they were working on the deluxe DVD release in the mid 2000's
https://lostmediaarchive.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_Forever_(original_160-minute_cut;_1995)

This time, I think it really was just a runtime issue on behalf of the studio. Schumacher's content wasn't re-filmed, and the majority of what he shot was retained, which is why I could see him not crying foul. He could've simply put it down to the sausage making process. But scenes were reordered, giving quite a different context and sense of flow. And as we've said, the deleted scenes transform the film into something more meaningful. Once I learned of the true scene ordering (Batmobile scene after meeting Chase on the rooftop, etc) I did find it rather annoying watching the Theatrical. Good thing I still have that edit saved.

I 100% feel the same way. Its funny how much little changes can drastically change things. I do wish we'd at least get all the deleted stuff ala Mrs. Doughtfire. There was almost a second film in there!

The Arkham opening being considered too dark (blood on the walls, etc) is one studio decision that wasn't runtime. The general tone in the majority of what Schumacher filmed wasn't exactly dark, but there was a balance that didn't really cross the line. It's a shame we didn't get that opening, but we all know the history of BR being a McNightmare for overprotective parents. From the studio's POV they'd know the beginning of a film is all about signalling tonal intent.

That also kinds backs up what Schumacher said that there wasn't any studio pushback and he essentially made the film he wanted because I don't think they would have even let him film that otherwise. I do find it funny that Chases Batman fetish did exactly causes an uproar with said overprotective parents. But I do think that was Schumacher's biggest achievement, bringing back the sponsors (for better or worse)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXgpGVhZBqI

Virtual Workprint mentioned  ;D

Rewatched this the other night (still had the file, but the link on the first post is still active, just in case).
Something like this should be the definitive version of the film. Frankly, the only reason to watch the theatrical cut nowadays is nostalgia and the much better A/V quality of the bluray. The virtual workprint is so much better.

Quote from: Azrael on Mon, 13 Jul  2020, 20:12
Rewatched this the other night (still had the file, but the link on the first post is still active, just in case).
Something like this should be the definitive version of the film. Frankly, the only reason to watch the theatrical cut nowadays is nostalgia and the much better A/V quality of the bluray. The virtual workprint is so much better.

I've never seen this but your rave review makes me want to check it out.

Yeah, definitely worth watching. Much better opening, scene ordering, the deleted scenes are integrated seamlessly.

Finally watched it. Or I started to anyway. Figured I'd just watch the first scene. Then the second. Then the third. I finally turned it off after about twenty minutes because I really do have other stuff I need to get done.

But I will say that the workprint version definitely draws you in right away. The scenes are arranged in a much more logical way. I never realized how out of order a lot of scenes were (and how much that grated on me) until I started this version of the movie.

One interesting thing isn't the stuff that's been reinstated (although that's nice) but the stuff that's left out. "I'll get drive-thru", "oh no, it's boiling acid", "this'll fix him!", probably other stuff.

I'll probably write more later but this is a worthy find, I must say.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 14 Jul  2020, 22:35
One interesting thing isn't the stuff that's been reinstated (although that's nice) but the stuff that's left out. "I'll get drive-thru", "oh no, it's boiling acid", "this'll fix him!", probably other stuff.

I haven't watched the edit for a while, but this would be my only complaint because I'm a completionist. I'd prefer all available content be used, which includes "I'll get drive thru" and everything else. That's how you make something truly definitive. Including something and omitting other things seems counterproductive. I think it should be less about creating a more consistent tone, because the film is what it is. It was either filmed or it wasn't. Get it all out under one masthead, warts and all.

I wouldn't mind checking this out.

Anyone have a good link to share? PM me.

Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 15 Jul  2020, 03:25

I wouldn't mind checking this out.

Anyone have a good link to share? PM me.

Check post #1 in this thread. That link still works.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 15 Jul  2020, 02:22

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 14 Jul  2020, 22:35
One interesting thing isn't the stuff that's been reinstated (although that's nice) but the stuff that's left out. "I'll get drive-thru", "oh no, it's boiling acid", "this'll fix him!", probably other stuff.

I haven't watched the edit for a while, but this would be my only complaint because I'm a completionist. I'd prefer all available content be used, which includes "I'll get drive thru" and everything else. That's how you make something truly definitive. Including something and omitting other things seems counterproductive. I think it should be less about creating a more consistent tone, because the film is what it is. It was either filmed or it wasn't. Get it all out under one masthead, warts and all.

Agreed, the removal of these is possibly based on the personal preference of the editor (I also don't mind about them missing) but maybe what matters at this point is having the most complete and coherent version of the film, not making it "darker" or toning down the goofiness (after all, one of the restored lines - "a little on the ears, Batman" - is the definition of goofy/silly humour).

For anyone interested in supporting, there's a schedule for Monday July 20th for Twitter and Instagram to post to @WBHomeEnt and @HBOMaxPr for the Schumacher Assembly Cut.

Made this to get posted
(https://i.postimg.cc/q7LBbYWz/releasetheshumachercut-copy.png)

Quote from: Azrael on Wed, 15 Jul  2020, 21:12

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 15 Jul  2020, 02:22

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 14 Jul  2020, 22:35
One interesting thing isn't the stuff that's been reinstated (although that's nice) but the stuff that's left out. "I'll get drive-thru", "oh no, it's boiling acid", "this'll fix him!", probably other stuff.

I haven't watched the edit for a while, but this would be my only complaint because I'm a completionist. I'd prefer all available content be used, which includes "I'll get drive thru" and everything else. That's how you make something truly definitive. Including something and omitting other things seems counterproductive. I think it should be less about creating a more consistent tone, because the film is what it is. It was either filmed or it wasn't. Get it all out under one masthead, warts and all.

Agreed, the removal of these is possibly based on the personal preference of the editor (I also don't mind about them missing) but maybe what matters at this point is having the most complete and coherent version of the film, not making it "darker" or toning down the goofiness (after all, one of the restored lines - "a little on the ears, Batman" - is the definition of goofy/silly humour).

Exactly. Very good point.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 15 Jul  2020, 13:04
[Check post #1 in this thread. That link still works.

Ok. Great.  8)

This post isn't the time to discuss how I've come around on the various iterations of Batman, but suffice to say my opinions today do not match my views (some of the worse ones are still in the board archives) of yesteryear. I like Batman Forever now.

In the darkest hours of my religious fervor (Burton or death!) I once endorsed a Burtonized fan edit of BF IE the one where Elfman's music is imposed on the film and every joke hacked out of the movie. I have since understood how ludicrous that is. In fact, by and large the some total of BF fan edits have the same issue. They project the idea that the film, when made applicably darker whether in service of fan desire or what was perceived as the original intent of the film (I actually thing these two distinctions are one and the same) was somehow going to drastically improve the picture. The Forever subsection of the fandom has always been curious to me in that respect, and I was never able to truly discern if they really loved the movie or just the potential of the movie. Anyway, the fan edits I've seen always seem to have this wrong headed approach to a film that was made pointedly to, in essence, rebel against Batman Returns, or more aptly, have a bigger, cleaner, more general appeal, which I think BF succeeds at doing in it's theatrical cut.

The theatrical edition is perfectly fine in my eyes and I think its selection, barring a few nagging issues, is a permissible decision for the time that holds up. It's a nice, fun, deft 90's action spectacle that although a little too taut in places, errors on the side of show rather than tell.

And then there is the Virtual Workprint. In concise terms, this is the only fan version of the film I endorse. In fact I would go so far as to say that the WB ought to use it as guide, if indeed a new version of the film were ever considered for re-release. To go even further, this version might just need a studio level pass, an upgrade if you will, of the technical aspects, and then you could release this version relatively unaltered.

And controversial opinion incoming, I think the Virtual Workprint is likely to blow away the supposed 160 minute cut, if indeed it exists.  Let me explain...

Essentially, what the VWP version does, is incorporate scenes that accentuate and emphasize the themes and intent of the film, which is why I consider it the purest take. It takes what is implicit in the theatrical version and makes it explicit, in fact, declares it out loud. Some may consider that a fopaux. I wouldn't necessarily argue otherwise, which is very likely why those scenes were excised. A case can be made either way, but if you are dead set on expanding the film, the VWP is the way to go because not only does its extensions elucidate what might have been lost on some of the audience, it helps to firmly supplant Val Kilmer into the role, restructure the first act (my favorite aspect), and (this is where I'm going with this) it looks as though it has been through a good editing pass that's letting a little more exposition/characterization get by.

Based on what we know, the 160 minute cut (2 hours and 40 minutes!? Does Batman Forever strike you as a film that needs 3 hours to get its point across? Are you kidding?) looks to me like something that potentially has more in common with the TV edit they put together of Superman that runs 3 hours. Or as I like to call it Superman the Movie: The Version That Has Never Seen an Editor! I know a lot of people have their reasons for being loyal to this version but IMO it stinks. Every exchange that needs distillation, every lingering bookend shot, every sequence that is needless protracted (Lord Lord does that helicopter take an hour and half to land on the helipad or what!?), everything about its long, sprawling, languid runtime relegates it to fan curiosity, not a movie. I think that's what the 160 minute BF is; a complete as possible version of the work that has less to do with "restoring an intent" that was never bastardized in the first place, and more to do with assembling the picture in a complete form so the editor can go to work. It is not supposed to see the light of day.

I know this was, like a novel length post just to say Virtual Workprint is Uber Pwnage, yo, but I just had some thoughts.

I would be 100% pleased if we got the "Virtual Workprint" In HD on an official release. The Redbook edition never did it for me, but this one was so well put together. I do think at the very least, I wouldnt mind seeing the unreleased deleted scenes (and even outtakes) on said release. But the deleted scenes that were added and the fixed scene order makes a WORLD of a difference. It's a much more balanced film.

I downloaded this edit when it was first posted and have watched it every year since. I've seen the theatrical cut two or three times over the past decade, but I generally stick with the VW these days, which has probably prejudiced my view in the movie's favour.

I only have two criticisms. One is that I wish the "Holy rusted metal!" line had been left in. I'm happy with the excision of the other goofy lines, and in some cases I think the edits make the film funnier (for example, I find Batman's silent response to Alfred's sandwich question more amusing than his "I'll get drive through" line in the theatrical cut). But I'd have preferred it if that particular line had been left in.

The other issue is more substantial, and that's the absence of Bruce's childhood POV shot when he reads his father's journal during the funeral wake. The original plan was that Bruce reads only part of the final entry when he's a kid: "Bruce insists on seeing a movie tonight..." This is why he blames himself for his parents' deaths, believing that they wouldn't have gone to the cinema that night if he hadn't asked them to. Later, as an adult, he reads the full entry and realises they were going to go to the cinema anyway, so it's not his fault. In order for the payoff in the Batcave to make sense, it really needs the earlier shot reinstated. But since WB has never released the extended version of the wake scene, there's not much anyone can do about it. Not unless someone has the digital skills to recreate the missing shot using the POV shot from the Batcave scene.

On the subject of fan edits, it's worth mentioning that Schumacher was aware of the Red Book Edition, and although he hadn't seen it he did give his blessing to the concept during a 2015 interview with Mark Hughes for Forbes:

QuoteQ: I'm wondering if you've seen something. There is an alternate version of the film, known as Batman Forever: Red Book Edition, where an editor with tremendous skills -- nobody knows who, it was done anonymously -- took the deleted scenes, and took the film and put it all back together and made a few little edits here and there to try to create the film that you've talked about wanting to have made over the years, something more serious and a little darker. It's a tremendous accomplishment, and even many people who criticized the theatrical release saw this version and loved it. It won the film many new fans, in other words. Have you seen this unofficial fan-edited Red Book Edition?

JS: No... Can I see it? Is there any way I can thank the editor? You can certainly put a thank you from me, for loving it enough to do that and taking such care!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2015/06/26/interview-joel-schumacher-talks-batman-forever-legacy/#4a8afe8050d6

So I don't think Joel would have been opposed to a similar edit receiving an official release. In fact he'd most likely have supported it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhtWMZFN_4g

The official TNTDrama Twitter page tweeted the #ReleaseTheSchumacherCut hashtag out of support, in a day when the hashtag got over 10k+ and trended on Twitter.

(https://i.imgur.com/BFiLjdi.jpg)

Source: https://twitter.com/tntdrama/status/1287901347027664896

The Snyder cut started a revolution all right.  8)

I think the wider public has a better chance of seeing David Ayer's real cut of Suicide Squad than seeing a director's cut of BF.

If they can find a way to release it, I'm pre-ordering. I never pre-order. But I'm prepared to pre-order that.

Kevin Conroy has called for the release of the director's cut, via the paid Q&A site Cameo.com.

https://www.twitter.com/CutSchumacher/status/1294790865538494464

During this pandemic, it seems going into the vaults to pull out director cuts of popular films would be a no-brainer to generate income where actors are not needed. It would be interesting not only to see BF, but honestly to see if there was a different cut available for B&R. With Schumacher gone now, it likely wouldn't be considered his vision though. As much as he felt inclined to apologize for it, I gotta believe had he been given the green light to re-edit it and add footage left out, it would register entirely different. A missed opportunity.

Fun little fan trailer in light of the Snyder Cut trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm36Qw1jXKU

Quote from: The Joker on Fri,  4 Sep  2020, 20:36

Fun little fan trailer in light of the Snyder Cut trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm36Qw1jXKU

This does reignite my interest in a Schumacher cut, I must say.

That video goes to show that deep down, a lot of people really do have a soft spot for BF. Too bad B&R had affected its legacy for years.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat,  5 Sep  2020, 07:34
That video goes to show that deep down, a lot of people really do have a soft spot for BF. Too bad B&R had affected its legacy for years.

If hanging around this board has taught me anything, it's that I'm not the only one with some deeply fond memories of the summer of 1995. That was a great time to be a Batman fan. The comics were kicking ass, the marketing for BF hit all the right notes, the movie itself was a massive event and it expanded the dramatic possibilities for Batman on film.

All in all, I absolutely understand why BF has such affection.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue,  8 Sep  2020, 00:29

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat,  5 Sep  2020, 07:34
That video goes to show that deep down, a lot of people really do have a soft spot for BF. Too bad B&R had affected its legacy for years.

If hanging around this board has taught me anything, it's that I'm not the only one with some deeply fond memories of the summer of 1995. That was a great time to be a Batman fan. The comics were kicking ass, the marketing for BF hit all the right notes, the movie itself was a massive event and it expanded the dramatic possibilities for Batman on film.

All in all, I absolutely understand why BF has such affection.

Was this your first experience with Batmania, or did you also get to experience the hysteria in 1989?

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Tue,  8 Sep  2020, 04:30

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue,  8 Sep  2020, 00:29

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat,  5 Sep  2020, 07:34
That video goes to show that deep down, a lot of people really do have a soft spot for BF. Too bad B&R had affected its legacy for years.

If hanging around this board has taught me anything, it's that I'm not the only one with some deeply fond memories of the summer of 1995. That was a great time to be a Batman fan. The comics were kicking ass, the marketing for BF hit all the right notes, the movie itself was a massive event and it expanded the dramatic possibilities for Batman on film.

All in all, I absolutely understand why BF has such affection.

Was this your first experience with Batmania, or did you also get to experience the hysteria in 1989?

I was around for the crazy summer of 1989. And 1995 was closer to that feeling than 1992 had been, as I recall.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue,  8 Sep  2020, 12:09
I was around for the crazy summer of 1989. And 1995 was closer to that feeling than 1992 had been, as I recall.

Yes, I agree.

Although I don't think Warners were holding back much in 1992 with Batman Returns, it just seemed like Warners were fully aware that Batman Forever was going to wind up being a more 'mainstream' film than the previous installment in the Batman movie series, and went full tilt with merchandising and advertising. In addition, the Batman Forever soundtrack was pretty great, and that was a summer where it seemed like you couldn't go anywhere without hearing "Kiss from a Rose" on the radio. Keeping the movie well within the public consciousness that summer much like the Prince soundtrack did in 1989.

Another song I remember being played on the radio constantly that summer was TLC's "Waterfalls". I'm sure there were others, but that and Seal's "Kiss from a Rose" seemed to be played at least once an hour. I recall being kinda annoyed that other songs on the Batman Forever were not getting no where near the same kind of play, as I preferred the U2 song, but it is what it is.

Quote from: Wayne49 on Wed,  2 Sep  2020, 13:01
During this pandemic, it seems going into the vaults to pull out director cuts of popular films would be a no-brainer to generate income where actors are not needed. It would be interesting not only to see BF, but honestly to see if there was a different cut available for B&R. With Schumacher gone now, it likely wouldn't be considered his vision though. As much as he felt inclined to apologize for it, I gotta believe had he been given the green light to re-edit it and add footage left out, it would register entirely different. A missed opportunity.

It is my understanding that with B&R, what you see is what you get. Schumacher himself said that he and Goldsman just fundamentally wrote less for B&R than they did for BF. There may be deleted scenes for B&R. That wouldn't be a surprise. But I don't think there's an equivalent of the red leather book for B&R.

It adds up too, I think. B&R got fast-tracked after the success of BF. If I'm not too terribly mistaken, pre-production started on B&R while Schumacher was filming, editing and then promoting A Time To Kill. He and Goldsman probably needed something that WB could approve quickly considering the looming release date for B&R they were facing... which, if you ask me, goes a long way toward explaining why B&R follows a kinda sorta similar story structure as the theatrical cut of BF. Simply, Schumacher and Goldsman had good reason to believe WB would approve that. Once you've at least got the skeleton of the story worked out, you can get to work on everything else faster.

Since they were starting off with fundamentally less story to work with (and time to shoot it), I imagine that scene extensions and whatnot definitely exist. And I'll even suggest that deleted scenes exist. But I simply doubt that there's much of anything substantial.

I do wonder tho how things might've turned out if Schumacher had cut Alfred's MacGregor syndrome subplot from the film. Considering the probability that people would appreciate a Schumacher cut of BF (and it will likely improve the movie's overall rep), restoring Alfred's subplot to a version of B&R which lacked it for a hypothetical Schumacher cut of B&R would probably give people plenty of reason to reevaluate B&R as well.

We'll never know because obviously the MacGregor thing was never cut from the movie. But I'm convinced that releasing B&R as we know it today would not be a bad thing at all.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 15 Mar  2021, 20:39

Quote from: Wayne49 on Wed,  2 Sep  2020, 13:01
During this pandemic, it seems going into the vaults to pull out director cuts of popular films would be a no-brainer to generate income where actors are not needed. It would be interesting not only to see BF, but honestly to see if there was a different cut available for B&R. With Schumacher gone now, it likely wouldn't be considered his vision though. As much as he felt inclined to apologize for it, I gotta believe had he been given the green light to re-edit it and add footage left out, it would register entirely different. A missed opportunity.

It is my understanding that with B&R, what you see is what you get. Schumacher himself said that he and Goldsman just fundamentally wrote less for B&R than they did for BF. There may be deleted scenes for B&R. That wouldn't be a surprise. But I don't think there's an equivalent of the red leather book for B&R.

It adds up too, I think. B&R got fast-tracked after the success of BF. If I'm not too terribly mistaken, pre-production started on B&R while Schumacher was filming, editing and then promoting A Time To Kill. He and Goldsman probably needed something that WB could approve quickly considering the looming release date for B&R they were facing... which, if you ask me, goes a long way toward explaining why B&R follows a kinda sorta similar story structure as the theatrical cut of BF. Simply, Schumacher and Goldsman had good reason to believe WB would approve that. Once you've at least got the skeleton of the story worked out, you can get to work on everything else faster.

Since they were starting off with fundamentally less story to work with (and time to shoot it), I imagine that scene extensions and whatnot definitely exist. And I'll even suggest that deleted scenes exist. But I simply doubt that there's much of anything substantial.

I do wonder tho how things might've turned out if Schumacher had cut Alfred's MacGregor syndrome subplot from the film. Considering the probability that people would appreciate a Schumacher cut of BF (and it will likely improve the movie's overall rep), restoring Alfred's subplot to a version of B&R which lacked it for a hypothetical Schumacher cut of B&R would probably give people plenty of reason to reevaluate B&R as well.

We'll never know because obviously the MacGregor thing was never cut from the movie. But I'm convinced that releasing B&R as we know it today would not be a bad thing at all.

That's why I put B&R ahead of Forever. Comparatively speaking, B&R just feels like a more complete film. At no point watching B&R am I confused regarding a characters motivation or arc. Whereas with Forever, there are moments that come out of nowhere because the scenes that set them up were cut out of the film. For example the "Batman is no more" scene doesn't make sense in context because the scenes of Gothamites asking for Batman's retirement aren't there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uypLw2h5EDY

Goldsman's comments gives me confidence. Should the Schumacher cut ever see the light of day, I hope we get to see a little bit more than what the Virtual Workprint has shown us, because there is evidence of some footage that has never been seen before.

Quote from: The Joker on Sat,  1 May  2021, 00:23

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uypLw2h5EDY

"I got to see it recently."

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat,  1 May  2021, 00:36

Quote from: The Joker on Sat,  1 May  2021, 00:23

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uypLw2h5EDY

"I got to see it recently."

That makes me interested to see if he has a copy, is there Buzz at WB and they watched it to see if it would be worth releasing? Interesting none-the-less and takes me back to the "I've seen the Snydercut" days

Nice fan made poster.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7LzuUPWUAQKzl7?format=jpg&name=900x900)

For those interested (thanks to BatmanForever1995) the shooting script is out https://drive.google.com/file/d/14J_KaRP1zR3SOoG2us24dsE5z6LkBfor/view

I'm reading it now and some interesting things -


It does play much darker, but still has some of that camp. Two-Face is more menacing tho can still be a little Jokery (tho I think this was 100% compromised by Tommy Lee Jones spat with Jim Carrey). The scene orders and dreams/flashbacks (like one flashback montage as Batman plummets into the water after escaping the helicopter) do feel quite artsy and are something I would like to see (if edited that way).

Overall, this is a pretty well-rounded film. The Virtual Workprint seems very close (aside from a few sequences and now possible edit choices) so if the Schumacher Cut never see's the light of day I won't be 100% disappointed but there are a few scenes I'd like to see that haven't been released (if filmed).

Also was watching some B-roll on youtube and noticed this shot of what appears to be a workprint (bottom left)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hvpG8Gd3/vlcsnap-2021-08-09-11h16m01s804.png)
Also of note, this scene happens around the 1:50:51 mark in the finish cut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcgJk4idD5g

Kevin Smith has seen (and made a copy) of the Workprint and will do a review of it
https://batman-on-film.com/19905/kevin-smith-has-seen-the-batman-forever-schumacher-cut/amp/

Kevin Smith may have fallen off in recent years, but this is a great move. At face value, it'll simply be informative to know all the nitty gritty details. Another effect is that having Kevin Smith signal boost this movement is going to do wonders for getting the word out.

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 10 Jun  2023, 23:32
Kevin Smith has seen (and made a copy) of the Workprint and will do a review of it
https://batman-on-film.com/19905/kevin-smith-has-seen-the-batman-forever-schumacher-cut/amp/

Interested to hear what he thinks. At this point, 28 years later, they should just get the film out there. Schumacher is no longer with us, but Kilmer is for the time being. Having him tweet and publicise a release would generate some degree of interest at least in the Batman community. Which, lets it face it, is the great majority of the DC market.

Quote from: Slash Man on Sun, 11 Jun  2023, 02:50Kevin Smith may have fallen off in recent years,

To say the very least. Post-Widow Maker Kevin Smith is more regrettable than Pre-Widow Maker Kevin Smith. That's how it goes sometimes.

Quotebut this is a great move.

Agreed.  8)

QuoteAt face value, it'll simply be informative to know all the nitty gritty details. Another effect is that having Kevin Smith signal boost this movement is going to do wonders for getting the word out.

Yeah, Smith does continue to get notices, and can be a great tool of sorts in getting things the final clearance for the go ahead.

Quote from: Slash Man on Sun, 11 Jun  2023, 02:50Kevin Smith may have fallen off in recent years, but this is a great move. At face value, it'll simply be informative to know all the nitty gritty details. Another effect is that having Kevin Smith signal boost this movement is going to do wonders for getting the word out.

Pretty much. Personally, I preferred Kevin Smith The Filmmaker to Kevin Smith The Teary-Eyed Influencer.

But if getting the extended/workprint cut out there requires him to performatively cry, well, we take the bad with the good, I suppose.

Considering the reevaluation Schumacher's films have undergone in the past several years, I think it's reasonable to guess that a longer edition of BF would boost the film's profile.

One question I've always had is why the cuts were ever made in the first place. The deleted scenes are mostly good. Mostly. So, it makes you wonder if this was a running time issue or what.

I was looking at what he was saying with regards to the opening
"You know how the movie starts with Two-Face busting into the bank and sh*t like that. That don't happen for like 15 minutes in the original cut"

The virtual workprint has two-face show up at the 9min mark. I know there is a longer intro to Bruce Wayne being greeted and bombarded with papers, and there is a possibility of longer edits (like Edawards "in the flesh" line) but 15 minutes seems to be a lot.

Tho Kevin Smith could be stretching it

Sounds like he might show it (or clips) at the Scum and Villany Cantina (I am assuming in LA) when he does the show
https://twitter.com/CutSchumacher/status/1667282305784717313?s=20

I do also wonder what the temp score is?

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 14 Jun  2023, 23:14I was looking at what he was saying with regards to the opening
"You know how the movie starts with Two-Face busting into the bank and sh*t like that. That don't happen for like 15 minutes in the original cut"

The virtual workprint has two-face show up at the 9min mark. I know there is a longer intro to Bruce Wayne being greeted and bombarded with papers, and there is a possibility of longer edits (like Edawards "in the flesh" line) but 15 minutes seems to be a lot.

Tho Kevin Smith could be stretching it

Maybe, though possibly not much. If this is indeed the fabled 160-170 minute version it is quite possible that it takes that long. We have to remember that this is likely the assembly cut before any real serious editing had been done. I liken it to the 3 hour version of Superman: The Movie where aside from a few deleted scenes the vast majority of new material is numerous but small additions that are usually cut for good reason because they dilute the overall product and are trimmed to tighten everything to a more harmonious narrative. You also have numerous instances where shots just awkwardly linger and end up being basically static that get tossed once they really go after the edit. If this is that edit I'm sure every, and I do mean every scene, will have multiple additions, many of which may actually dilute the film as it did with Superman.

If there is an official release, I'd like someone to go through Dennis Virkler's notes if they exist and find out what the movie looked like before the first act was reordered.

Kevin Smith is now live! Waiting to hear about the workprint!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pAaOoxsIXc

Some takeaways

- Under 3 hours but 2 hours 35 min 
- Two-Face mostly redubbed in final cut and is more subdued in this edit
- Two-Face origin (montage?) showing the courtroom scene in the begining of the film
- No Robin laundry scene
- No ADR on security guard
- John Favreau has lines as Waynes stock broker
- Outside the Batman Forever theme the temp score is Batman, Batman Returns and Interview with a Vampire
- Missing edawards "why can't I kill you scene"
- Enhances the film, and feels more in line with falling down and lost boys
- Kevin Smith is getting a better quality version and showing it atleast twice "for free" (July 1st & August 25th) at his pivate screeings for his films but wont release it online (for legal reasons)

So, all we gotta do is find this Joe Black guy now. There are fans who will do exactly what he got tired of doing for a month and could knock it out in a week. Would make a better presentation for Smith's upcoming theatrical screenings of it.

Managed to track down his YouTube account where he uploaded his portion of the podcast on his own page.

https://youtu.be/uQurxTQdDY0

The edit I saw years back with the deleted scenes reinstated was superb. One of the best Batman things I'd seen, to be honest. Unless Smith revealed this on his show (I haven't watched it yet) I'd like to know he got a hold of the cut and what WB thinks of what's he's saying and doing about it.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 20 Jun  2023, 09:24The edit I saw years back with the deleted scenes reinstated was superb. One of the best Batman things I'd seen, to be honest. Unless Smith revealed this on his show (I haven't watched it yet) I'd like to know he got a hold of the cut and what WB thinks of what's he's saying and doing about it.

So, he got it from the Joe Black guy as part of a payment for some Kevin Smith film memrobilia. Joe Black got it from "connections" in Hollywood. Keven Smith said he got his Flash ticket from WB after the news of him getting the cut went viral. So he's unsure what WB thinks, but it's being verbaly careful when showing it, so he's showing it "for free, if you stick around" after his screening of his stuff

I remember Akiva Goldsman saying he saw a cut of the film a couple of years ago, but we didn't hear any updates until now. I suspect they've been working on polishing the Schumacher cut for a while, particularly if Two-Face's scenes are more serious in this and the over-the-top lines such as Riddler saying "why can I just kill you?" are missing.

I really convinced the official Schumacher cut is going to come out in the near future. And when it does, it will be the first time DC movie I'll become interested in since ZSJL. And let's face it, with the financial troubles and box office bombs WB have been getting lately, the very least they can do is release this cut.

My brother found this on reddit from one of Kevin Smiths screenings

The deleted scenes are reported to say Workprint 11/94

I also attended! I'm going to be honest, maybe my memory is fuzzy due to how late at night... er, early in the morning it took place, but I don't remember Two-Face being all that different? I didn't think his delivery sounded all that different from his theatrical performance. I did notice that the dialogue, in general, sounded a bit different - some deliveries were less over-the-top, but they seemed like subtle changes.

I have a big list of notes that I took after I left the theater, for those interested - would love to see more from others who attended, and corrections due to my sh*tty memory. Warning, not very organized because I was rushing to write stuff down before I forgot:

•   ⁠Completely different score, perhaps a temp score, utilizing elements of Elfman's work from Batman and Batman Returns. Notable examples include the old Batman theme during the first suit-up sequence, some of the Red Triangle Gang's theme during certain action sequences, and my favorite, a few notes of Catwoman's theme playing after Chase references Catwoman, which concretizes the allusion (it's a real shame it isn't kept in the final release)
•   ⁠Starts with the famous sequence at Arkham Asylum, in which Dr. Burton enters Two-Face's cell, finds a dead man hanging from the ceiling, and the graffiti "The Bat Must Die" on the wall
•   ⁠The opening is largely re-arranged. In this version, we go from the intro sequence at Arkham immediately to a slice of Bruce Wayne's life up in the tower, where he's swarmed with requests for various things by various secretaries. It's a lightly comedic scene. More interestingly, this directly segues into the scene where Edward Nygma presents his invention to Bruce and gets shot down for ethical questions, which serves as a pre-title sequence a la Batman Returns (the final film opens with the titles, just like Batman 1989). Because of this, the Bat-Signal summon that ends the scene isn't Chase trying to score a booty call, but rather, just a call for Batman to go to the bank that Two-Face is robbing. Thus, this version actually explains why Batman is there in the first place. (The "Bat-Signal as a beeper" sequence still happens, just later.)
•   ⁠The next major deleted sequence is after the first confrontation with Two-Face (saving the man from the acid trap), after Batman brings down the helicopter and falls into the water himself. A sort of quasi dream sequence follows in which Bruce hallucinates about his parents' deaths, with the voice echoing and overlapping. It's surreal and helps to establish the memories of his past that torment him. In general, the subplot about his memories works better in this version because we actually see the memories surfacing throughout the film.
•   ⁠Minor differences in certain scenes. Lots of dialogue appear to be different, less refined takes (pre-ADR?) These are generally inferior to the final version, usually offering less emotion and clarity. But, in some cases, they lack the over-the-top goofiness of the final version.
•   ⁠Some scenes are slightly extended. Notable examples:
   ⁠•   ⁠Two-Face gets additional dialogue at the bank before he meets Batman, including the "If the Bat wants to play, we'll play" line that was heard in some trailers.
   ⁠•   ⁠Two-Face also gets more screen time with Batman after the bank situation when they're both fighting on the helicopter, in which he refers to Batman as a killer.
   ⁠•   ⁠After Nygma kills his boss Stickley, the scene of him reveling in the murder and then menacing the security camera is a bit longer and showcases his sinister side a bit more as he rants about how much he hates Bruce and wants to make him pay. He takes a photo/article (something that depicts Bruce Wayne at any rate) and smashes it on the ground. Not too tonally different but makes the scene a bit creepier.
   ⁠•   ⁠After Robin is convinced to stay, the scene continues for just a bit longer, showing him follow Alfred back into the mansion and hold the door open for him
   ⁠•   ⁠Robin hitting Bruce in anguish continues for a little bit, and features Bruce stoically standing there and continuing to take Robin's blows while calmly telling him that he will do whatever he can to help. It seamlessly cuts to Robin's dialogue in the next scene, where he tells Bruce that in order to help, he should help him kill Two-Face.
   ⁠•   ⁠When Two-Face teaches Riddler to punch out guards and Riddler fails, Two-Face chides him for punching weakly and knocks out the guard himself.
   ⁠•   ⁠Bruce's second(?) meeting with Chase, in which she gives him the dream doll, starts earlier. It begins with an exterior shot of her office, while you hear Bruce having a conversation with her, and zooms in to reveal them. Notable dialogue includes a line in which Bruce says "thanks for the help with Dick." Quite a heartwarming little addition, and shows the extent to which Bruce cares for Robin and help him navigate his own trauma of seeing his family die.
   ⁠•   ⁠When Nygma taunts Bruce for being too cowardly to try the brainwave machine, he has an additional line emasculating Bruce in front of Chase.
   ⁠•   ⁠After Riddler forces Batman to choose between Chase and Robin and does the mock countdown, there's additional footage of Batman testing a step forward and finding that the floor in front of him is actually an optical illusion, with his foot going straight through the "ground" to reveal a pit. He gets additional dialogue, in which he deduces that "death surrounds him, everywhere" and that this isn't a choice he's meant to win at all.
   ⁠•   ⁠Riddler's final scene, in which he's gone insane and is visited by Chase, is extended a bit - just showing more of his insanity as he believes that he's Batman
•   ⁠The scene in which he has a manor date with Chase plays out differently, with different dialogue. In the Final Cut, this scene does most of the heavy lifting with Bruce's flashbacks, as he basically narrates to Chase how he became Batman. This flashback occurs after Chase knocks down a vase of flowers, triggering Bruce - the same thing happens in the work print but it's instead framed as just another flare-up. Some of the flashback footage used in this scene was originally shown in the much earlier flashback when Batman fell in the water after blowing up Two-Face's helicopter (namely, the footage of young Bruce falling down, though he isn't shown actually falling into the cave as in the final). Interestingly, in the work print, Chase doesn't seem to catch on that Bruce is Batman because both of them react to Bruce's flashback differently - he doesn't narrate his past, instead just telling her that "it's happening again" and the memories are coming back, and she just gives him generic clinical advice. Her finding out that he's Batman by comparing the kiss is not present at all.
•   ⁠Another major addition comes before the final battle, and is another well-known cut, in which Bruce enters the cave containing the old diary and confronts the giant bat. This occurs right after he gets knocked out and then wakes up. Due to the injury, he loses his memory temporarily, not remembering who Batman is while Alfred reminds him that he was knocked on the head. They head down to the Batcave where Alfred points out a cave entrance in the wall and Bruce asks what's inside. Alfred tells him that his fears are inside, and he encourages him to go in and confront his past. The entrance leads to a large, natural-looking cave (not built out like the Batcave itself) which has a swarm of bats on the ceiling that Bruce briefly acknowledges, before turning his attention to the ground covered in rocks/sand. He brushes aside some sand and uncovers the old diary that he has dreamed so much about. He opens it up, flips open to the final entry, and learns that his parents had actively chosen to watch a different movie than he wanted ("Bruce's cartoon will have to wait"). An emotional scene follows in which Bruce tears up, realizing that their death wasn't his fault, and he repeats "Not my fault... not my fault..." This both reminds him of his Batman identity and gives him the resolve to resume being Batman, whereupon the giant bat finally appears (though it seemed pretty clear to me that it was meant to be imagery/symbolism rather than the actual massive bat physically being in the cave with him). It flies towards him, gets a couple of close-ups revealing its grotesque, terrifying, snarling face (it's honestly pretty scary-looking with red glowing eyes looking straight at the camera). But Bruce stands and looks at it fearlessly, then the camera pans around them both as Bruce raises his arms to match the bat's. The scene ends with Bruce coming out of the cave, telling Alfred that he's Batman again, and ends with a cool visual of a flock of bats swarming out towards the camera.
•   ⁠The final addition, which is honestly pretty significant, is at the very end of the film (right before the shared ending of Batman/Robin running in front of the signal) - after Batman says goodbye to Chase, a scene shows Alfred talking to Chase in the car (shot in the style of similar scenes in the Burton films), in which she asks him if Batman's work is going to go on forever, which Alfred affirms. Chase's reaction to this isn't very clear, but she seems to smile and be okay with it.
•   ⁠Some scenes are missing. A notable example includes the final "epilogue" of the final fight in which Batman finds the drained Riddler who, frustrated, asks him how he can possibly be both Batman and Bruce. This scene is not present at all in the work print. The weird scene where Robin does "kung-fu laundry" is also not present.
   ⁠•   ⁠Two-Face's final scene, of the coin landing in his palm as it slides with his corpse under the water, is not present - in the work print, the last we see of him is just him falling down the shaft
•   ⁠More minor line omissions exist too, like the guard at the beginning not yelling "it's boiling acid!" In an over-the-top campy tone.

Such a shame that this edit will likely never be seen on a wider scale other than at Smith's theater. It's obviously not a complete edit that restores every known deleted scene and was completed before reshoots and additional ADR occurred. It, along with various other leaked workprints, provide an interesting insight into the filmmaking process. This sort of thing doesn't appeal to the average consumer and would only appeal to film buffs, especially in terms of this utilizing a temp score.

I really don't understand why Smith gets to show this edit for free without apparent consequence. It would be the same difference if it was shared online. Podcasters at the theater sounded pretty adamant that no recordings were to be made during the screening which is rather trivial since this is illegally obtained footage to begin with. When the workprint of Blade Runner got accidentally leaked in the late 80's, people made recordings of it before it appeared decades later on the Blu-ray. Smith's only doing this to drum up attendees at his theater that is obviously struggling by resorting to gimmicks like this.

Hope something can be done right away. I'm much more interested in seeing this workprint as it is instead of going back and making it as slick and polished as Snyder's cut of Justice League was.

Quote from: Kamdan on Tue,  4 Jul  2023, 10:56I really don't understand why Smith gets to show this edit for free without apparent consequence

I think the fact that it was shown for free helps.

Plus, let's face it, WBD is billions of dollars in the hole. There's a good chance that they can't afford a whole lot of lawyers.

But even with all that going on, I think someone from WBD was running interference for Smith. Because Smith isn't the kind of guy who would do something like this unless the copyright owner was providing air cover for him.

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Tue,  4 Jul  2023, 05:37My brother found this on reddit from one of Kevin Smiths screenings

The deleted scenes are reported to say Workprint 11/94

I also attended!

Nice!  8)


 

QuoteI'm going to be honest, maybe my memory is fuzzy due to how late at night... er, early in the morning it took place, but I don't remember Two-Face being all that different? I didn't think his delivery sounded all that different from his theatrical performance. I did notice that the dialogue, in general, sounded a bit different - some deliveries were less over-the-top, but they seemed like subtle changes.

I have a big list of notes that I took after I left the theater, for those interested - would love to see more from others who attended, and corrections due to my sh*tty memory. Warning, not very organized because I was rushing to write stuff down before I forgot:

•    ⁠Completely different score, perhaps a temp score, utilizing elements of Elfman's work from Batman and Batman Returns. Notable examples include the old Batman theme during the first suit-up sequence, some of the Red Triangle Gang's theme during certain action sequences, and my favorite, a few notes of Catwoman's theme playing after Chase references Catwoman, which concretizes the allusion (it's a real shame it isn't kept in the final release)

Having not actually seen this of course, I kinda assumed that Elfman's score was indeed used early on. How you describe the suit-up scene sounds just like how that scene was presented at the very start of the first teaser/trailer for "Batman Forever" The Catwoman theme notes sounds pretty cool as well.

Quote•    ⁠Starts with the famous sequence at Arkham Asylum, in which Dr. Burton enters Two-Face's cell, finds a dead man hanging from the ceiling, and the graffiti "The Bat Must Die" on the wall
•    ⁠The opening is largely re-arranged. In this version, we go from the intro sequence at Arkham immediately to a slice of Bruce Wayne's life up in the tower, where he's swarmed with requests for various things by various secretaries. It's a lightly comedic scene. More interestingly, this directly segues into the scene where Edward Nygma presents his invention to Bruce and gets shot down for ethical questions, which serves as a pre-title sequence a la Batman Returns (the final film opens with the titles, just like Batman 1989). Because of this, the Bat-Signal summon that ends the scene isn't Chase trying to score a booty call, but rather, just a call for Batman to go to the bank that Two-Face is robbing. Thus, this version actually explains why Batman is there in the first place. (The "Bat-Signal as a beeper" sequence still happens, just later.)
•    ⁠The next major deleted sequence is after the first confrontation with Two-Face (saving the man from the acid trap), after Batman brings down the helicopter and falls into the water himself. A sort of quasi dream sequence follows in which Bruce hallucinates about his parents' deaths, with the voice echoing and overlapping. It's surreal and helps to establish the memories of his past that torment him. In general, the subplot about his memories works better in this version because we actually see the memories surfacing throughout the film.
•    ⁠Minor differences in certain scenes. Lots of dialogue appear to be different, less refined takes (pre-ADR?) These are generally inferior to the final version, usually offering less emotion and clarity. But, in some cases, they lack the over-the-top goofiness of the final version.
•    ⁠Some scenes are slightly extended. Notable examples:
    ⁠•    ⁠Two-Face gets additional dialogue at the bank before he meets Batman, including the "If the Bat wants to play, we'll play" line that was heard in some trailers.
    ⁠•    ⁠Two-Face also gets more screen time with Batman after the bank situation when they're both fighting on the helicopter, in which he refers to Batman as a killer.
    ⁠•    ⁠After Nygma kills his boss Stickley, the scene of him reveling in the murder and then menacing the security camera is a bit longer and showcases his sinister side a bit more as he rants about how much he hates Bruce and wants to make him pay. He takes a photo/article (something that depicts Bruce Wayne at any rate) and smashes it on the ground. Not too tonally different but makes the scene a bit creepier.
    ⁠•    ⁠After Robin is convinced to stay, the scene continues for just a bit longer, showing him follow Alfred back into the mansion and hold the door open for him
    ⁠•    ⁠Robin hitting Bruce in anguish continues for a little bit, and features Bruce stoically standing there and continuing to take Robin's blows while calmly telling him that he will do whatever he can to help. It seamlessly cuts to Robin's dialogue in the next scene, where he tells Bruce that in order to help, he should help him kill Two-Face.
    ⁠•    ⁠When Two-Face teaches Riddler to punch out guards and Riddler fails, Two-Face chides him for punching weakly and knocks out the guard himself.
    ⁠•    ⁠Bruce's second(?) meeting with Chase, in which she gives him the dream doll, starts earlier. It begins with an exterior shot of her office, while you hear Bruce having a conversation with her, and zooms in to reveal them. Notable dialogue includes a line in which Bruce says "thanks for the help with Dick." Quite a heartwarming little addition, and shows the extent to which Bruce cares for Robin and help him navigate his own trauma of seeing his family die.
    ⁠•    ⁠When Nygma taunts Bruce for being too cowardly to try the brainwave machine, he has an additional line emasculating Bruce in front of Chase.
    ⁠•    ⁠After Riddler forces Batman to choose between Chase and Robin and does the mock countdown, there's additional footage of Batman testing a step forward and finding that the floor in front of him is actually an optical illusion, with his foot going straight through the "ground" to reveal a pit. He gets additional dialogue, in which he deduces that "death surrounds him, everywhere" and that this isn't a choice he's meant to win at all.
    ⁠•    ⁠Riddler's final scene, in which he's gone insane and is visited by Chase, is extended a bit - just showing more of his insanity as he believes that he's Batman
•    ⁠The scene in which he has a manor date with Chase plays out differently, with different dialogue. In the Final Cut, this scene does most of the heavy lifting with Bruce's flashbacks, as he basically narrates to Chase how he became Batman. This flashback occurs after Chase knocks down a vase of flowers, triggering Bruce - the same thing happens in the work print but it's instead framed as just another flare-up. Some of the flashback footage used in this scene was originally shown in the much earlier flashback when Batman fell in the water after blowing up Two-Face's helicopter (namely, the footage of young Bruce falling down, though he isn't shown actually falling into the cave as in the final). Interestingly, in the work print, Chase doesn't seem to catch on that Bruce is Batman because both of them react to Bruce's flashback differently - he doesn't narrate his past, instead just telling her that "it's happening again" and the memories are coming back, and she just gives him generic clinical advice. Her finding out that he's Batman by comparing the kiss is not present at all.
•    ⁠Another major addition comes before the final battle, and is another well-known cut, in which Bruce enters the cave containing the old diary and confronts the giant bat. This occurs right after he gets knocked out and then wakes up. Due to the injury, he loses his memory temporarily, not remembering who Batman is while Alfred reminds him that he was knocked on the head. They head down to the Batcave where Alfred points out a cave entrance in the wall and Bruce asks what's inside. Alfred tells him that his fears are inside, and he encourages him to go in and confront his past. The entrance leads to a large, natural-looking cave (not built out like the Batcave itself) which has a swarm of bats on the ceiling that Bruce briefly acknowledges, before turning his attention to the ground covered in rocks/sand. He brushes aside some sand and uncovers the old diary that he has dreamed so much about. He opens it up, flips open to the final entry, and learns that his parents had actively chosen to watch a different movie than he wanted ("Bruce's cartoon will have to wait"). An emotional scene follows in which Bruce tears up, realizing that their death wasn't his fault, and he repeats "Not my fault... not my fault..." This both reminds him of his Batman identity and gives him the resolve to resume being Batman, whereupon the giant bat finally appears (though it seemed pretty clear to me that it was meant to be imagery/symbolism rather than the actual massive bat physically being in the cave with him). It flies towards him, gets a couple of close-ups revealing its grotesque, terrifying, snarling face (it's honestly pretty scary-looking with red glowing eyes looking straight at the camera). But Bruce stands and looks at it fearlessly, then the camera pans around them both as Bruce raises his arms to match the bat's. The scene ends with Bruce coming out of the cave, telling Alfred that he's Batman again, and ends with a cool visual of a flock of bats swarming out towards the camera.
•    ⁠The final addition, which is honestly pretty significant, is at the very end of the film (right before the shared ending of Batman/Robin running in front of the signal) - after Batman says goodbye to Chase, a scene shows Alfred talking to Chase in the car (shot in the style of similar scenes in the Burton films), in which she asks him if Batman's work is going to go on forever, which Alfred affirms. Chase's reaction to this isn't very clear, but she seems to smile and be okay with it.
•    ⁠Some scenes are missing. A notable example includes the final "epilogue" of the final fight in which Batman finds the drained Riddler who, frustrated, asks him how he can possibly be both Batman and Bruce. This scene is not present at all in the work print. The weird scene where Robin does "kung-fu laundry" is also not present.
    ⁠•    ⁠Two-Face's final scene, of the coin landing in his palm as it slides with his corpse under the water, is not present - in the work print, the last we see of him is just him falling down the shaft
•    ⁠More minor line omissions exist too, like the guard at the beginning not yelling "it's boiling acid!" In an over-the-top campy tone.

Appreciate the detailed notes for sure.

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Tue,  4 Jul  2023, 05:37He brushes aside some sand and uncovers the old diary that he has dreamed so much about. He opens it up, flips open to the final entry, and learns that his parents had actively chosen to watch a different movie than he wanted ("Bruce's cartoon will have to wait"). An emotional scene follows in which Bruce tears up, realizing that their death wasn't his fault, and he repeats "Not my fault... not my fault..."

Did this version of the film include the close-up shot of his father's journal when Bruce remembers reading it as a child? Specifically the part that makes him think his parents went to the cinema because of him? The fan edits I've seen include the "Bruce's cartoon will have to wait" shot later on, but not the earlier bit where his childhood self reads the first part of the journal entry. All the versions I've seen just show him opening the book and then running into the night with it, but they don't show the close-up shot of the journal entry itself.

Some tests someone made based off the information from the screenings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOp4i_HHNTY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XII_KPJwCiU

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun,  9 Jul  2023, 04:05Some tests someone made based off the information from the screenings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOp4i_HHNTY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XII_KPJwCiU

Thanks for the feedback on what you saw at the screening, I really appreciated it!

Aside from some key details, I get the sense the official director's cut isn't that radically different from the bootleg copy shared on this thread. I had a feeling that was the case, because the likelihood of footage hidden from the rest of the world with Tommy Lee Jones as a radically different Two-Face would've been a pipe dream.

I'm surprised to read Elfman's score appeared in some scenes. Was it because Goldenthal's music wasn't finished yet when this workprint was edited? Nevertheless, those edits adding Elfman's score really fit those scenes well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82SVM5vmxPk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lKwOpqOd24

This has some extra shots I have not seen before
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9T4Vvv2roQ

The opening scene of Forever has it all. Batman as a horror monster myth (the thugs blasting the elevator doors), Batman as a gadget wielding martial artist, Batman as an escape artist, and finally Batman as a survivor. I like how it also serves as a major showcase for the villain - what he's capable of and his temperament under pressure.

I read that WBD has licensed out a lot of DC movies to Tubi, the streaming service you can watch for free. If they were smart, they would've released the Schumacher cut on there and gotten the extra advertising money they desperately needed.

I don't see the Schumacher cut coming out any time soon, nor do I see Max (formerly HBO Max) having much of a future if WBD continues to license its content out to its competitors.

I found this image on social media of Dick Grayson on his knees looking dejected as Batman consoles him, right after Batman scares off some goons and Dick lashes out at him. I've never seen this photo before, I wonder if the filmed footage exists in the vault.

(https://i.imgur.com/AsNjCCr.jpg)

Meanwhile, I saw this disappointing comment by comic book writer Ron Marz.

(https://i.imgur.com/hX94B5q.jpg)

I wonder if he felt the same about Donner fans when they campaigned for the original cut of Superman II? I say let the audience demand for any director's cut to come out, particularly if it's purported to be better than the theatrical cut.

Ron Marz went from one of the most interesting writers in comics to be a complete a-hole of a human being seemingly overnight. It seems like his entire Twitter is one big Old Man Yells At Cloud.

It's sad.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 16 Jan  2024, 10:37I found this image on social media of Dick Grayson on his knees looking dejected as Batman consoles him, right after Batman scares off some goons and Dick lashes out at him. I've never seen this photo before, I wonder if the filmed footage exists in the vault.

(https://i.imgur.com/AsNjCCr.jpg)

Meanwhile, I saw this disappointing comment by comic book writer Ron Marz.

(https://i.imgur.com/hX94B5q.jpg)

I wonder if he felt the same about Donner fans when they campaigned for the original cut of Superman II? I say let the audience demand for any director's cut to come out, particularly if it's purported to be better than the theatrical cut.

This scene is in the "Schumacher cut"