A lot of people are looking at this film to really gauge where the DCEI is headed. The story I think will be primary, if the story is not strong enough or cohesive, WB may have a problem, especially through word of mouth of the audience. Snyder is more than competent in the visuals, action and spectacle, but if it falls down storywise, it's another story (pun intended)
What can make this film a disaster?
The media saying so, and people believing it.
Any number of things could go horribly awry. There are probably more ways this movie could get screwed up than there are getting it right. As Avengers: Age of Dulltron shows, the sheer novelty of seeing these heroes together isn't necessarily enough to make for a great movie. The movie itself has to deliver the goods.
What I admire is that WB isn't strictly following the Marvel formula. They're doing things their own way. It's riskier but the potential rewards are much greater. Even if the final product isn't everything it might be, I still give them points for courage and believe they're doing the right thing.
In the spirit of the thread, here's some issues people may have:
Perceptions they overcompensated with humor.
Or on the flip side, 'it's still too dark!'
Batman dominated the film again!
Superman appeared too late in the film.
What they did with Clark Kent and the secret identity.
I'm positive poor early reviews will come out, just like BvS. But I'm prepared for that.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 24 Jan 2017, 12:54In the spirit of the thread, here's some issues people may have:
Perceptions they overcompensated with humor.
Or on the flip side, 'it's still too dark!'
Batman dominated the film again!
Superman appeared too late in the film.
What they did with Clark Kent and the secret identity.
I'm positive poor early reviews will come out, just like BvS. But I'm prepared for that.
Same here. But I'm not sure it'll make as much of a difference this time. I've never seen a movie get rehabilitated as quickly as BVS. But it happened, a lot of people are singing a different tune about that movie these days. Suicide Squad is generally well-regarded.
So what that means for JL is I think people will be more willing to ignore the critics and give the movie a shot.
I think BvS is basically the modern day Batman Returns.
It's absolutely gorgeous visually, has a bunch of interesting themes to chew on, but remains divisive. Much like Batman Returns, the people who aren't fans seemingly refuse to acknowledge the comic influences as deliberate directorial choices. Show a Batman Returns hater an old comic panel of Penguin eating raw fish? 'Just a coincidence, Burton didn't read the comics man!' And the whole meritless argument that 'old comics' are not legitimate sources of inspiration because the modern comics are now doing something different.
With BvS haters, it's 'Snyder just did it because he thought it would be cool'.
BvS is one of the most layered films you will find, and NOT just from the comics.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B-C8Bfxth5E
You're right about BvS undergoing a renaissance. Snyder gave us a three hour film chocked with goodness. There's so much to analyse and enjoy. It's a true superhero epic.
I expect JL to be much the same.
Any way you want to slice it, the commercial truth is by the third weekend BVS had LOST nearly 95% of all it's business from the first weekend. It's the biggest drop in the history of the Batman franchise. Not even B&R lost that much business in three weeks (not even close). I understand people want to talk about grosses, but that actually only hurts the argument because it demonstrates how front loaded the film was.
So Justice League carries the liability of BVS on it's shoulders. I just shake my head at the nonsense of keeping Snyder as the director. It would have been like keeping Schumacher for Batman Begins, only unlike Schumacher, Snyder has never been a critics darling (Schumacher was). So WB has done a wonderful job of setting themselves up behind the eight ball. Audiences will see it's the same guy with the same depictions. If the movie does not get glowing reviews, this movie is in trouble before it even opens because people do not want another BVS film...even with humor.
Add to that the PR nightmare of Affleck pulling out as director of the proposed solo Batman film followed now by the replacement Matt Reeves not wanting to do it, PLUS the added rumor Affleck might want out altogether and the DC Universe has a HUGE perception problem. You want to know how this film can end up a disaster? No worries. WB is working around the clock to see that it happens.
Quote from: Wayne49 on Mon, 20 Feb 2017, 01:12
Any way you want to slice it, the commercial truth is by the third weekend BVS had LOST nearly 95% of all it's business from the first weekend. It's the biggest drop in the history of the Batman franchise. Not even B&R lost that much business in three weeks (not even close). I understand people want to talk about grosses, but that actually only hurts the argument because it demonstrates how front loaded the film was.
So Justice League carries the liability of BVS on it's shoulders. I just shake my head at the nonsense of keeping Snyder as the director. It would have been like keeping Schumacher for Batman Begins, only unlike Schumacher, Snyder has never been a critics darling (Schumacher was). So WB has done a wonderful job of setting themselves up behind the eight ball. Audiences will see it's the same guy with the same depictions. If the movie does not get glowing reviews, this movie is in trouble before it even opens because people do not want another BVS film...even with humor.
Add to that the PR nightmare of Affleck pulling out as director of the proposed solo Batman film followed now by the replacement Matt Reeves not wanting to do it, PLUS the added rumor Affleck might want out altogether and the DC Universe has a HUGE perception problem. You want to know how this film can end up a disaster? No worries. WB is working around the clock to see that it happens.
Unfortunately, I think you're spot-on Wayne49.
But for all my attacks on the DCEU, I'd much rather see the franchise continue if it at least means we'll get a solo Batman movie featuring Affleck, than a reboot.
The sad likelihood is, however, that we will simply end up with another couple of tin-eared Zack Snyder travesties, and not one sliver of gold among the muck that might have been represented by an Affleck-authorised solo Batman film.
Quote from: johnnygobbs on Mon, 20 Feb 2017, 02:14
Quote from: Wayne49 on Mon, 20 Feb 2017, 01:12
Any way you want to slice it, the commercial truth is by the third weekend BVS had LOST nearly 95% of all it's business from the first weekend. It's the biggest drop in the history of the Batman franchise. Not even B&R lost that much business in three weeks (not even close). I understand people want to talk about grosses, but that actually only hurts the argument because it demonstrates how front loaded the film was.
So Justice League carries the liability of BVS on it's shoulders. I just shake my head at the nonsense of keeping Snyder as the director. It would have been like keeping Schumacher for Batman Begins, only unlike Schumacher, Snyder has never been a critics darling (Schumacher was). So WB has done a wonderful job of setting themselves up behind the eight ball. Audiences will see it's the same guy with the same depictions. If the movie does not get glowing reviews, this movie is in trouble before it even opens because people do not want another BVS film...even with humor.
Add to that the PR nightmare of Affleck pulling out as director of the proposed solo Batman film followed now by the replacement Matt Reeves not wanting to do it, PLUS the added rumor Affleck might want out altogether and the DC Universe has a HUGE perception problem. You want to know how this film can end up a disaster? No worries. WB is working around the clock to see that it happens.
Unfortunately, I think you're spot-on Wayne49.
But for all my attacks on the DCEU, I'd much rather see the franchise continue if it at least means we'll get a solo Batman movie featuring Affleck, than a reboot.
The sad likelihood is, however, that we will simply end up with another couple of tin-eared Zack Snyder travesties, and not one sliver of gold among the muck that might have been represented by an Affleck-authorised solo Batman film.
If I'm going on my gut, I think Justice League would be doing exceptionally well to even match what BVS did at the box office. There is no longer a novelty to superhero ensemble films and since so much of Justice League will be just trying to establish the participants, it also carries the insufferable weight of an origin-type story which modern audiences may not have allot of patience for. The film really feels about three or four years too late. And with really no momentum behind it from prior films, I just don't have high hopes for it.
I don't get all the hate towards Snyder. Watchmen and BvS are great movies. Nobody is more qualified.
"What can make this film a disaster?"
When you make a film and butcher it up in a desperate attempt to imitate the competition and strip it from its sincerity, heart and emotion for fearing it could upset the loudmouth, disingenuous critics who suddenly have issues with "dark" superhero films.
When you lie to the entire world that doing reshoots would honour the director's vision as he departs from the production because of tragic circumstances.
When your reshoots fail to resonate with audiences because because of poor jokes, shoddy CGI, unnecessary recreations of scenes that were already filmed and unforgivable omissions of key scenes.
When you gaslight an entire fandom for three years over the existence of a much better-made movie.
When you cover up the discrimination and abuse those have suffered while working on the set during those reshoots, and undermine actors from speaking out. Not to mention that still protect the guilty parties to this day and gave Joss Whedon a dignified exit from the studio.
And yet, even after writing all this and how ZSJL came out to positive critical reception and is generally accepted as the film that should've come out in 2017, the disgraceful excuse of a studio at Warner Butchers decides to post a YouTube trailer for the 4K release of the butchered theatrical cut, aka Josstice League. For no reason at all, other than it's out of pure spite.
At the time of writing, the trailer's dislike ratio has reached a WHOPPING 20K, as opposed to the paltry like ratio of 1.3K.
Clearly, Warner Butchers doesn't care about the negative PR that bring upon themselves, because they are so arrogant that they believe people will go and watch and support their content no matter what.
Well, the more they keep this up, you might be seeing more people like this guy who has declared he has had enough of their rubbish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrKj1V2T6Io
I agree with just about everything he said.
What a blast from the past! One part of my original post in this thread aged rly well.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 24 Jan 2017, 11:46Any number of things could go horribly awry. There are probably more ways this movie could get screwed up than there are getting it right. As Avengers: Age of Dulltron shows, the sheer novelty of seeing these heroes together isn't necessarily enough to make for a great movie. The movie itself has to deliver the goods.
Not bad!
But another part of my post wasn't so lucky...
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 24 Jan 2017, 11:46What I admire is that WB isn't strictly following the Marvel formula. They're doing things their own way. It's riskier but the potential rewards are much greater. Even if the final product isn't everything it might be, I still give them points for courage and believe they're doing the right thing.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 29 Apr 2021, 12:21the disgraceful excuse of a studio at Warner Butchers decides to post a YouTube trailer for the 4K release of the butchered theatrical cut, aka Josstice League. For no reason at all, other than it's out of pure spite.
I have no idea who they're trying to win over with this. Best I can tell, they've alienated pretty much everybody, except the WB temps and interns paid to upvote it using their phones or something.
"Tone deaf" is what you call innocently doing the wrong thing at exactly the wrong time. "Spite" is the word you use for knowingly doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. Sometimes, I think you go a little too far with this one-note "Warner Butchers" shenanigans. Still, even broken clock is right twice a day. As you say, this wasn't bad timing. This was WB giving a whole lot of people the middle finger.
It's up for grabs who's more furious about this. I could just as soon believe the Woke Wack Pack as the Snyderverse True Believers. Gadot and Fisher are probably the opposite of happy right now too considering their experiences with Whedon.
It's rare for a movie studio to do something that genuinely offends me. But I am offended right now.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 29 Apr 2021, 12:21
And yet, even after writing all this and how ZSJL came out to positive critical reception and is generally accepted as the film that should've come out in 2017, the disgraceful excuse of a studio at Warner Butchers decides to post a YouTube trailer for the 4K release of the butchered theatrical cut, aka Josstice League. For no reason at all, other than it's out of pure spite.
At the time of writing, the trailer's dislike ratio has reached a WHOPPING 20K, as opposed to the paltry like ratio of 1.3K.
The number of dislikes has currently increased to 44K, while the likes have reached a pitiful figure of 2.8K. Rightly so.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0N7NJyUcAEBNH3?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 30 Apr 2021, 03:24
"Tone deaf" is what you call innocently doing the wrong thing at exactly the wrong time. "Spite" is the word you use for knowingly doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. Sometimes, I think you go a little too far with this one-note "Warner Butchers" shenanigans. Still, even broken clock is right twice a day. As you say, this wasn't bad timing. This was WB giving a whole lot of people the middle finger.
Look, I understand my name-calling against the studio might be repetitive and annoying to read, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.
When I call that studio "Warner Butchers", it's not a childish and emotional outburst. These people have demonstrated themselves - time and time again - that they are truly shameless. They have been operating in bad faith for years, and frankly, even if this trailer hadn't come out you'd have to be willfully blind to ignore their hostile antics throughout the lead-up and release of ZSJL.
For God's sake, these people had the nerve to consider Josstice League as part of the DC film canon long before this latest 4K trailer even came out, and going so far as calling the Snyder cut as "cul de sac storytelling that goes nowhere" in the press, months before the film opened. To add further insult to injury, they pressured Snyder to cut John Stewart out of the film. If this film isn't canon to them, why should they care if Snyder introduces his version of the character in this one-and-done film? Don't buy into their bulllsh*t that it would've complicated HBO Max's interpretation of the character in the new Green Lantern Corps show, the multiverse concept is supposed to invite different interpretations of characters. This is yet another example of spiteful behaviour.
Worst of all, as you already pointed out, this studio - and now that includes WarnerMedia - don't even respect the wellbeing of their own actors who have suffered under Whedon. We only know about Gal Gadot and Ray Fisher's stories, but Jason Momoa has made it clear on Instagram last year that everyone was treated poorly on the set of those reshoots last year. There's no doubt in my mind that there was more trouble that happened that we don't still know about to this day. My only guess why more people hadn't come out is because of fear of retaliation by the studio, and their experiences must've been too humiliating to tell publicly.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 30 Apr 2021, 03:24
It's rare for a movie studio to do something that genuinely offends me. But I am offended right now.
Well, in a way, I'm kinda glad, because this is yet another wake-up call about how toxic these people in charge of this studio are. I'm not naive to think Warners are the black sheep in Hollywood, I know that industry is full of corruption. But I've never seen any studio that is still transparently hostile towards everyone, from the fans to their own actors and directors, even after all the scandals that have been exposed to the public. To me, that Josstice League 4K trailer might as well say "STFU, we know you'll still give us your money, you dumb geeks. Cry harder".
I can't tell people here how to spend their money, nor I can control what general audiences should do either. But I'm not going to continue to support a studio that insults my intelligence. Apart from purchasing a physical copy of ZSJL, I won't pay a single cent to see a film by WB Pictures ever again. Unless big changes are coming and those corrupt people are kicked out of he studio, but the chances of that happening are looking slim day by day.
To anyone who still plans to go see any upcoming DC movies, you have the right to do so, but don't complain if the studio uses your support to undermine the Snyderverse.
I forgot to mention, Ray Porter and Zack Snyder are both unimpressed with the Josstice League trailer upload.
https://twitter.com/Ray__Porter/status/1387730648136175627
Meanwhile, Warner Bros UK have uploaded the first ten minutes of ZSJL on YouTube, and the like ratio has currently gained up to 14K as opposed to the petty 100 who gave it a thumbs down.
The UK department also tweeted that ZSJL has is #1 in the country's Official Film Charts in terms of digital streaming.
https://twitter.com/WarnerBrosUK/status/1387730886058156037
At least there is one WB-affiliated department that has showed support for the film. If only the main department in Hollywood would take a page from their British cousins.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 30 Apr 2021, 12:52
To add further insult to injury, they pressured Snyder to cut John Stewart out of the film. If this film isn't canon to them, why should they care if Snyder introduces his version of the character in this one-and-done film? Don't buy into their bulllsh*t that it would've complicated HBO Max's interpretation of the character in the new Green Lantern Corps show, the multiverse concept is supposed to invite different interpretations of characters. This is yet another example of spiteful behaviour
And to top it off, Geoff Johns is named as EP for the new GLC show.
https://deadline.com/2021/04/finn-wittrock-green-lantern-hbo-max-series-guy-gardner-1234747347/amp/
Unbelievable. Despite co-producing the box office bomb that was GL in 2011, and the enormous PR disaster that was Josstice League, Johns is still protected. Apologists will say he helped co-write the financially successful Aquaman film, but that does not make up the loss of additional revenue those other films should've gotten. Never mind his part in creating such a hostile work environment on Josstice League.
Yeah, the removal of Wayne T. Carr's role as John Stewart was personal, alright. As I said elsewhere, I wouldn't be surprised if the motivation behind removing his role from ZSJL was not only to spite Snyder, but to spite Fisher as well. It was confirmed that Fisher helped Carr to get the part, and they're both good friends.
It's an absolute disgrace.
In less than a week since that disrespectful Josstice League 4K trailer was uploaded on YouTube, it has now gained well over 108K downvotes. And counting. The like had a ratio of only 4.8K, or something around that effect.
Some idiot bottom-feeder nobody on YouTube, who I won't bother naming, had the audacity to say giving the video that many downvotes is "targeted harassment". But then again, he apparently said the same thing about Ghostbusters 2016, so maybe there is a recurring theme about that fool.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 29 Apr 2021, 12:21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrKj1V2T6Io
RIP Uche. Gone way too soon.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/nfl/2023/01/02/former-jaguars-guard-uche-nwaneri-praised-for-his-consistency-leadership/69771663007/
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 2 Jan 2023, 22:47
RIP Uche. Gone way too soon.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/nfl/2023/01/02/former-jaguars-guard-uche-nwaneri-praised-for-his-consistency-leadership/69771663007/
Damn. Age 38?
Way too young. R.I.P.