My Problem with Robin

[The Dark Knight]

Dick was an accomplished acrobat and saved Batman from being buried alive. Dick stole the Batmobile to fight neon goons in a dingy back alley. He had ability. Bruce just saw his mentality as reckless, and thought he could hone that into something more disciplined. That's the point of being a mentor - your apprentice is not the final product. They are a work in progress.

This right here. I thought we were given adequate evidence as to why Dick was suitable for the role. It's stressed that both heroes needed each other, and their formal partnership began when they've both put aside pride and anger and focus on the mission at hand. A good scene that got cut shows Robin training and Bruce starting to mentor him.

The only part of the plot that could have been stronger was Robin becoming a liability once he's Batman's partner. By this point, it was already a trope to have Robin get caught by the bad guys and have Batman have to bail him out. As a fan of Robin, I think that device does a disservice to the character.

Way I see it, O'Donnell's Grayson only became Robin once Two-Face hit the rocks. He did express a change in personality by saying "I'd rather see you in jail", but Dent's death set it in stone. It allowed him to move on and forge his own identity. By the time of B&R he has his own suit in the Nightwing mould.

[Slash Man]

That's true, and provides a good connection to the original film; Bruce was tormented well into adulthood with the uncertainties surrounding his parents' deaths. On the other hand, Dick knew the identity of his family's killer and saw justice dealt out very soon after.

Batman Forever actually explores Bruce's character in a lot of ways, and suggests that he was in the wrong for using lethal measures in the previous movies. He explains to Dick that this is something of a release for his inner conflict. He wants Dick to avoid this cycle.

Off-topic, but this represents a bit of a retcon to Batman's character since we were never supposed to think that Batman was in the wrong for defending himself with lethal means (often times it was a life or death situation). The coldest thing he did was knock a defenseless Joker off the cathedral.

[The Dark Knight]

Off-topic, but this represents a bit of a retcon to Batman's character since we were never supposed to think that Batman was in the wrong for defending himself with lethal means (often times it was a life or death situation). The coldest thing he did was knock a defenseless Joker off the cathedral.

It's more a spiritual issue and less of a physical behavior issue. How you can hang onto long held desires that eat you up inside. When you are in that mental space there is a serious risk of something or someone defining who you are. Kilmer's Bruce came to see tragedy was only one aspect of who he is. The darkness is something he can tap in to for motivation, but it's not all he is. By the end of BF he had a beautiful woman in his life and a young man to mentor. Alfred was well and the GCPD valued his heroics. He was needed. Jack Napier was his past, and he was not going to dominate his future.

[BatmanFurst]

That's true, and provides a good connection to the original film; Bruce was tormented well into adulthood with the uncertainties surrounding his parents' deaths. On the other hand, Dick knew the identity of his family's killer and saw justice dealt out very soon after.

Batman Forever actually explores Bruce's character in a lot of ways, and suggests that he was in the wrong for using lethal measures in the previous movies. He explains to Dick that this is something of a release for his inner conflict. He wants Dick to avoid this cycle.

Off-topic, but this represents a bit of a retcon to Batman's character since we were never supposed to think that Batman was in the wrong for defending himself with lethal means (often times it was a life or death situation). The coldest thing he did was knock a defenseless Joker off the cathedral.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again the Burton/Schumacher films aren't connected. There's too many inconsistencies between them, and again Bruce says to Alfred in Forever that he's never been in love before. He says it after having the confrontation with Dick after he rescued Batman. On top of that I have a hard time believing that Kilmer/Clooney's Batman and Keaton's Batman are the same character.

[The Dark Knight]

Circumstances suited Bruce finally accepting Dick as an apprentice. Two supervillains barged into his house, blew up his base of operations, assaulted his butler and kidnapped his lover. Another pair of hands sure would have been handy. He did have a capable young man under his roof moments before, but he left because Bruce pushed him away. The violation of Wayne Manor is the ultimate consequence for his stubborn go it alone attitude.