Batman-Online.com

http://www.batman-online.com/features/2012/7/29/comic-influences-on-the-dark-knight-rises

This weekend, Silver Nemesis and I collaborated on an article detailing the comic book connections to The Dark Knight Rises. 

Check out the article that Batman-Online's owner, Paul, called "Truly epic!"

Yes. Nice work.

Our fellow poster, Gotham Alleys, has really cool comparison shots of Selina Kyle's outfit in the airport scenes:
http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/2012/07/coming-soon.html

Looking forward to his full article!

http://www.slashfilm.com/superhero-bits-268/

The article is on Page 1 of /Film's Superhero Bits.

Very cool guys  8), If id knew before that youre also planning on this I would have joined in, although Im not sure if I wouldve been able to at this time. Ill try as much as possible to avoid the repetition, although some of the same points I have to include

Excellent article... I picked up a few trades to catch up on some of the storyline arcs that you mentioned.   This movie has recaptured my deep interest in Batman.  I have always been a Burton fan, but this movie, is a comic book movie.  Your article really does point it out.  I know many keep harping on Nolan's attitude about it happening in the "real world", but there are so many story lines in the comics that match up, it works.  The other thing I have found, is some of the "plot holes" I hear about can be answered if one reads many of those stories you mention.  I know the story lines don't line up exactly, but the core info is there to actually go, "ahh well in the comic xyz happened" and you can apply that to the film.   

I am so glad this site is here, that  there are a lot of other fans who share the same feelings about this character and the various films that have come out over the years.

Good job as usual, guys.

There are comic references there of course, but I don't feel them as strongly as in other films.

There are long segments where Bruce/Batman is a side character in his own movie. I cannot see how Nolan lovers can use this criticism against the Burton flicks especially after this. Batman's presence is felt in scenes he's not in during B89/BR, and the villains relate to his personality and circumstances. In Rises, not so much. It's pretty much Gotham PD Blue featuring John Blake and friends.

Agh! We missed something!

Bruce Wayne fakes his own death at the end of Batman & Dracula: Red Rain (1991). Alfred bids a mournful farewell at his master's graveside in a scene that's very similar to the ending of the movie.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Fredrain1.jpg&hash=502f4130845a4624f290bd40fa87b84248ff7887)

A solicitor then informs Alfred that Bruce named him executor of his estate, stipulating that his wealth be used to help the homeless. Just like in the film.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Fredrain2.jpg&hash=64fb9f740f2015078df3e2f21147cf30e33afdc7)

This is a bit too similar to the movie to be a coincidence. I didn't consider it when we wrote the article because it was an Elseworld story. But I wish we'd included it now.

Good find, Silver. I say the article needs to be edited to include this.  ;)

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 11 Aug  2012, 12:12
I wish we'd included it now.

Done

Didn't even remember that from Red Rain.  Good catch, as usual, Silver Nemesis.

A couple other things that occurred to me:
- Alfred is given the full name "Alfred J. Pennyworth."  His full name in the comics is Alfred Thaddeus Crane Pennyworth.  Perhaps the "J" stands for Jarvis, as in his father, Jarvis Pennyworth?  Interesting that they elected to give him a middle initial and a middle initial that doesn't match the comics, haha.

- I didn't remember this at first from the film, but apparently, Blake mentions that his mother died when he was young, of a car accident.  His father later was killed over a gambling debt, which implies he hung out with the wrong crowd.  This is similar to the Post-Crisis Jason Todd origin in which Jason's mother died of a drug overdose when he was younger (later retconned to find out that his biological mother was someone else, but that's beside the point) and his father was one of Two-Face's men who was killed.

Quote from: bttfbat on Sun,  5 Aug  2012, 03:59
The other thing I have found, is some of the "plot holes" I hear about can be answered if one reads many of those stories you mention.  I know the story lines don't line up exactly, but the core info is there to actually go, "ahh well in the comic xyz happened" and you can apply that to the film.   

Which plot holes would these be (that get filled in when reading the comics)?

Quote from: bttfbat on Sun,  5 Aug  2012, 03:59
The other thing I have found, is some of the "plot holes" I hear about can be answered if one reads many of those stories you mention.  I know the story lines don't line up exactly, but the core info is there to actually go, "ahh well in the comic xyz happened" and you can apply that to the film.   

I disagree. Just because something happens in the comics doesn't mean it makes sense in the world Nolan established, eg. BB and TDK telling us something and then TDKR doing another thing which contradicts.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 12 Aug  2012, 01:26I disagree. Just because something happens in the comics doesn't mean it makes sense in the world Nolan established

I understand your point but let's run with the premise for a second. Suppose something illogical is clarified in some comic book out there. So what? A film needs to work as a completed narrative unto itself. Asking your audience to sift through external media is simply unacceptable.

Case in point? The Star Wars prequels. Now, I like the Star Wars prequels and I think they're unfairly maligned. But the fact is that Lucas took a lot of narrative shortcuts secure in the knowledge that the expanded universe (comics, novels, video games, etc) would cover his @$$. Sorry, not good enough. He set up a lot of things that he ended up ignoring later on. Sure, some EU novel out there covers it but that's not good enough. Lucas set it up so it should be Lucas who pays it off. But he didn't.

Same deal with Nolan.

So even if he's right, I still reject that argument out of hand.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 12 Aug  2012, 04:06

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 12 Aug  2012, 01:26I disagree. Just because something happens in the comics doesn't mean it makes sense in the world Nolan established

I understand your point but let's run with the premise for a second. Suppose something illogical is clarified in some comic book out there. So what? A film needs to work as a completed narrative unto itself. Asking your audience to sift through external media is simply unacceptable.

Case in point? The Star Wars prequels. Now, I like the Star Wars prequels and I think they're unfairly maligned. But the fact is that Lucas took a lot of narrative shortcuts secure in the knowledge that the expanded universe (comics, novels, video games, etc) would cover his @$$. Sorry, not good enough. He set up a lot of things that he ended up ignoring later on. Sure, some EU novel out there covers it but that's not good enough. Lucas set it up so it should be Lucas who pays it off. But he didn't.

Same deal with Nolan.

So even if he's right, I still reject that argument out of hand.

Very good point. It should be all in the movie itself. For example, I shouldn't have to read the novelisation to find out what really happened, or what a certain thing meant, after seeing the movie. In this instance they had a solid 2 hours 45 minutes.

For example, cutting off bridges has happened in the comics. And that's fine. But I find Bane's reasoning for doing so in the movie weak and distorted. Thus making the comic reference a bit ho-hum. Just ripping from a comic panel doesn't make it automatic gold, y'know?

Ras only attacked Gotham in BB because he deemed it beyond saving. At that point he was correct. Bane attacks Gotham in TDKR (before finding out about Dent's true nature) during peace time. When he first came to Gotham he's essentially starting something out of nothing. "It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan." There we go. Ras Al Ghul's plan. But things had certainly come a long way since those days.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 12 Aug  2012, 06:59Very good point. It should be all in the movie itself. For example, I shouldn't have to read the novelisation to find out what really happened, or what a certain thing meant, after seeing the movie. In this instance they had a solid 2 hours 45 minutes.

For example, cutting off bridges has happened in the comics. And that's fine. But I find Bane's reasoning for doing so in the movie weak and distorted. Thus making the comic reference a bit ho-hum. Just ripping from a comic panel doesn't make it automatic gold, y'know?

Ras only attacked Gotham in BB because he deemed it beyond saving. At that point he was correct. Bane attacks Gotham in TDKR (before finding out about Dent's true nature) during peace time. When he first came to Gotham he's essentially starting something out of nothing. "It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan." There we go. Ras Al Ghul's plan. But things had certainly come a long way since those days.

Yep. Or here's another one. Bruce stepping aside. Now, there's some precedent for Bruce stepping down as Batman. I don't particularly like that but it's been done. However, what I do NOT buy is that the death of Rachel Dawes would be what did it. And this really is a shortcoming of the movie. Any way you slice it, the movie outright says Bruce gave up because she 'sploded real good in TDK. You'll never convince me that the death of a woman would make Bruce go into hiding. I could buy that he went into hiding in TDKR because Jason died. That could feasibly make Bruce question everything he's ever done, every decision he's made, everything. I could see that so destroying his spirit that he'd hang it up. At least for a while. But Rachel? No chance in hell. None.

And the real hell of it is that TDKRises had a built-in alternative. The Harvey Dent act essentially made Batman obsolete. Nolan could've set up the argument that Gotham City had reached a point where they just didn't need Batman anymore. On paper, that's what he was striving for anyway. If that had been his stated purpose for giving up, it would've made a lot of sense. However unfulfilled he might've felt, Bruce could at least acknowledge that the city had gotten its shyt together enough to put him out of business.

But the filmmakers went another way and I'll never buy it. Ever.

Agreed - Rachel seems to have had a bigger impact on the Nolan Bruce than the death of his parents. Which I don't agree with. The 8 year hibernation was excessive, and this incarnation of Batman as a result wore the cape and cowl for a very short time indeed overall.

That's the thing about this movie. We don't get to see what people, average Joes and Janes, actually think about Harvey Dent's true nature once it is revealed. Nor do we get a full impression of any sort regarding their opinion of Batman, given his name is now cleared. I was looking forward to such scenes (really, this stuff should be covered) as they're just as important, more so IMO, than the reveal itself. In TDK we're told people will lose hope if it's revealed and stuff like that. But this material isn't covered.

When I saw little Levitt take on the mantle (after TDK told us Batman didn't believe in copycats, guns or no guns) I was disappointed and gobsmacked Nolan went that way. I read that in fan fiction and it actually came true. Nolan can argue that the will is everything, but in all seriousness I'd give this kid a week at most. Nolan said TDKR wouldn't blow up the balloon, but in my estimations he did just that.

Well about the plot holes out there online, are made by hard core fans, not the general film going public.  Examples of this:the city in lock down mode.  When I watch the movie it seems so strange the way Gotham is left out there to hang and dry.  Did it work on its own in the film, a bit, but Gotham is a large  city, there had to be things going on in the city that we never saw.  Right about the time No Man's Land came out was when I went off to college I had the books here at home but never really read them.   There is no way a film can go into ALL the details that one (us hard core fans) can find the answer to. Sometimes us the viewers have to figure out how things happen or get the way they do, I think that is part of the reason there are so many fan clubs (back in the day I was on several newsletter clubs), or now in the current age forums like this. 

On screen the whole image of the city of Gotham being off limits seemed a bit strange to me, but after reading the depths that the comics went to in order to show an isolated Gotham, I could see some parallels that for me gave me a bit of comfort in what they did in Dark Knight Rises.  As much as Nolan and the hard core Nolan fans try to make it, his films still are comic book films, no matter what they try to say. For me this is a GOOD thing. I do still wish they made Gotham more of itself a character, with styling, but that is my personal preference.

The same issues can be said about the many Harry Potter films, my wife read the books but I didn't I got lost in the middle films until I read the books and then it all clicked.  Does that mean it is not as strong as a film, yes... but in the case with the current Batman movie line, you don't HAVE to look to the comics for the inspiration if you don't want to, that is up to each viewer.   Another great example is the James Bond film series, the movies many times have nothing to really do with the exact books, however, in the books there are some small details about the character that still can exist in the films and explain a few things.

It might not work for you and I am not saying it is the only way it has to be, but for me it does, and I thought the articles about the comic influences here on the films are great. 

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 12 Aug  2012, 12:54
Agreed - Rachel seems to have had a bigger impact on the Nolan Bruce than the death of his parents. Which I don't agree with. The 8 year hibernation was excessive, and this incarnation of Batman as a result wore the cape and cowl for a very short time indeed overall.

That's the thing about this movie. We don't get to see what people, average Joes and Janes, actually think about Harvey Dent's true nature once it is revealed. Nor do we get a full impression of any sort regarding their opinion of Batman, given his name is now cleared. I was looking forward to such scenes (really, this stuff should be covered) as they're just as important, more so IMO, than the reveal itself. In TDK we're told people will lose hope if it's revealed and stuff like that. But this material isn't covered.

When I saw little Levitt take on the mantle (after TDK told us Batman didn't believe in copycats, guns or no guns) I was disappointed and gobsmacked Nolan went that way. I read that in fan fiction and it actually came true. Nolan can argue that the will is everything, but in all seriousness I'd give this kid a week at most. Nolan said TDKR wouldn't blow up the balloon, but in my estimations he did just that.

Agreed 100%.  I would've happily traded all the comic book connections to Dark Knight Returns, No Man's Land, and Knightfall in exchange for a better follow-up on TDK's ending and dealing with the ramifications of Batman and Gordon's decision to cover up Dent's crimes.

And as much as I liked Blake, I agree that it's difficult to see him in the Batsuit by the end.  The reason why it's more believable for Dick Grayson to do it in the comics is because we've seen him undergo years and years of training and in-field experience fighting crime at Batman's side, joining the Teen Titans, forging his own path as Nightwing, etc. 

Yes, Blake is a cop with a solid moral compass and too-good-to-be-true detective skills.  Having an armored Batsuit and gadgets would be a huge advantage for him in the future.  But the film doesn't provide a ton of evidence that he'd last as long as Bruce did (which, in the trilogy, is what?  A year between BB and TDK and then a month here and there in TDKR?)

If it weren't for his handgun, those truck guys would've killed him.
If Gordon hadn't suddenly healed and taken out two League of Shadows members in the hospital, who knows what would've happened.
If it weren't for Batman, the LoS men would've killed him in the snow.
If it weren't for sheer luck that he didn't move closer, he would've gotten blown up by the army guys at the bridge.
And obviously, if it weren't for Batman taking out the bomb, he would've gotten blown up with the kids and the rest of the city, too.

Guys, does anyone remember in which issue it was first mentioned that Gordon got separated with his wife?

Quote from: BatmAngelus on Sun, 12 Aug  2012, 21:55If it weren't for his handgun, those truck guys would've killed him.
If Gordon hadn't suddenly healed and taken out two League of Shadows members in the hospital, who knows what would've happened.
If it weren't for Batman, the LoS men would've killed him in the snow.
If it weren't for sheer luck that he didn't move closer, he would've gotten blown up by the army guys at the bridge.
And obviously, if it weren't for Batman taking out the bomb, he would've gotten blown up with the kids and the rest of the city, too.

Indeed. That is what we're shown in the movie. But that's all apparently going to change because he's found the batcave.  ::)

I would've greatly preferred to have seen the City galvanising after Bane's rule, but the people of Gotham are virtually silent throughout this movie. As colors said, a time where Gotham has evolved to the point of not needing Batman. From TDK: "You know that day that you once told me about, when Gotham would no longer need Batman? It's coming." No it's not. Because Little Levitt is here to keep everybody safe.

Apart from releasing the prisoners, the lie itself being revealed does not advance the plot in any way. How do the police force feel about Gordon's decision 8 years ago? We hear Blake's side, but he is not a representative of the force as a whole.

Quote from: GothamAlleys on Mon, 13 Aug  2012, 02:28
Guys, does anyone remember in which issue it was first mentioned that Gordon got separated with his wife?

Not sure, GA. I'm sure somebody in here will know.

Quote from: bttfbat on Sun, 12 Aug  2012, 19:45Well about the plot holes out there online, are made by hard core fans, not the general film going public. Examples of this:the city in lock down mode. When I watch the movie it seems so strange the way Gotham is left out there to hang and dry. Did it work on its own in the film, a bit, but Gotham is a large city, there had to be things going on in the city that we never saw. Right about the time No Man's Land came out was when I went off to college I had the books here at home but never really read them.  There is no way a film can go into ALL the details that one (us hard core fans) can find the answer to.

Then don't effin' bring it up. Or else deal with it in short hand. But to raise a big matzo ball like Gotham City being completely cut off from the outside world without explaining much of why and expecting comics that 99% of moviegoers have never heard of and will never read to fill in the gaps is simply unreasonable.

And part of that ties in with where any movie differs from the comics it riffs on. Gotham City in the comics was cut off because of widespread political agreement on the matter. "It'd cost trillions to rebuild. Sad as it may be, Gotham is a write off." In the movie, the US military seals Gotham off because Bane and his flunkies threaten to detonate a nuclear device. Point being is that different factors are in play behind the abandonment of Gotham City in the comics vs. TDKRises. We see absolutely no evidence of political pressure being exerted to cut the city off; it's done solely because of the nuke.

If people want to call it a plothole that the US government would write off an entire city because of terrorist demands... well, I personally might be willing to let that plot development slide but I can't say they don't have a point.

Quote from: BatmAngelus on Sun, 12 Aug  2012, 21:55Agreed 100%.  I would've happily traded all the comic book connections to Dark Knight Returns, No Man's Land, and Knightfall in exchange for a better follow-up on TDK's ending and dealing with the ramifications of Batman and Gordon's decision to cover up Dent's crimes.

Yep. I guess what I'd expected based upon TDK's ending was GCPD actively hunting a Batman who's remained on duty. "We'll hunt him because he can take it."

Quote from: BatmAngelus on Sun, 12 Aug  2012, 21:55But the film doesn't provide a ton of evidence that he'd last as long as Bruce did (which, in the trilogy, is what?  A year between BB and TDK and then a month here and there in TDKR?)

It's tangential to your point at best but that raises something that's been bugging me. We're led to believe that Bruce's various joints are basically shot to piss, presumably because of his Batman activities. But, as you say, his career as Batman (prior to TDKRises) was anywhere from six months to at most a year.

Now, I can believe his body took a lot of punishment in that time but I can't accept that it would've been as debilitating as the movie shows. Olympic athletes are put through a hell of a lot more than Batman was in his heyday and come out the other side just fine. Are we to believe that Bruce exerted himself more in his (tops) year as Batman than an Olympian does in his/her entire life?

I just can't see it.

The best I can come up with is that Nolan knew a lot of us in the audience would have a hard time buying into the concept of Hardly Bane kicking the snot out of Batman unless Batman had been out of it for eight years and had joint issues from here to Christmas so he needed to give Batman every possible handicap. That's all I've got.

QuoteYep. I guess what I'd expected based upon TDK's ending was GCPD actively hunting a Batman who's remained on duty. "We'll hunt him because he can take it."

Back when The Dark Knight was released, I pretty much assumed that the third film would have Batman being hunted as he continued fighting crime/the new villain.  When there were rumors that Nolan was using Batman: Prey as a reference, I thought that was a natural choice considering the character's status as a fugitive in both that comic and the movie. 

Too bad the actual film executed it so poorly.

QuoteNow, I can believe his body took a lot of punishment in that time but I can't accept that it would've been as debilitating as the movie shows. Olympic athletes are put through a hell of a lot more than Batman was in his heyday and come out the other side just fine. Are we to believe that Bruce exerted himself more in his (tops) year as Batman than an Olympian does in his/her entire life?

I just can't see it.

The best I can come up with is that Nolan knew a lot of us in the audience would have a hard time buying into the concept of Hardly Bane kicking the snot out of Batman unless Batman had been out of it for eight years and had joint issues from here to Christmas so he needed to give Batman every possible handicap. That's all I've got.

Agreed.  There was absolutely no reason to do the "Batman comes out of retirement" story for this movie, especially with Batman being a rookie in the first two movies anyway.
Nor was there anything at the end of The Dark Knight that gave a good reason why Bruce Wayne would hang up the cowl.  His injuries from Harvey's gunshot and the fall weren't enough to put him out of commission.  Batman outran the police to get to the Batpod in the final scene, yet now, he can't even stay on his feet without a cane?  I don't buy it.
Plus, his personal reasons for quitting, regarding Rachel, were flimsy at best.

I also think the scene of Bane crippling Bruce got robbed of its impact when Bruce was already crippled and retired for 8 years in the first act anyway.  Wouldn't it have been more shocking for Bane to cripple Batman when Bruce was in his physical prime?  You know, like the comics?

And wouldn't it have been more fulfilling if Batman retired for good, after years and years of relentlessly fighting crime?  And not...after he already retired years ago?

While the movie took cues from The Dark Knight Returns and Knightfall, the mix of both stories resulted in redundant plot points: Bruce Wayne's crippled.  He gets back into action to stop the villains.  Then gets crippled again.  Then gets back into action to stop the villains.

Batman's been retired.  Then goes back to crime fighting.  Then retires again.

QuoteAs colors said, a time where Gotham has evolved to the point of not needing Batman. From TDK: "You know that day that you once told me about, when Gotham would no longer need Batman? It's coming." No it's not. Because Little Levitt is here to keep everybody safe.

Indeed.  Bruce kept talking about inspiring people in the city to do good.  That one day, Batman would no longer be needed.  Instead, it turns out that he just wanted to inspire someone else to be his replacement so he could quit. 

Wouldn't it have kept closer to the trilogy's themes if we saw how the city cleaned itself up in the aftermath of Batman's sacrifice, without anyone needing to become a costumed character?  Forget comic book fidelity- I think that would've been a more fitting ending than introducing a Robin-type character, shoehorning some backstory with him and Bruce, and having him take over the cowl at the end.

^ Exactly, well said. The opening segment of Bruce being bearded and reclusive also just eats up screen time. I would've started Batman still active here and there when it really warrranted it (ala what we see during the stock exchange scene, where is bizarrely shifts from day to night instantly). They kept on building up the is he coming back? thing twice, when he's a recluse and when he's a prisoner. I got tired of it.

I get they wanted Bruce to rise from this state into something more postive, but we don't get that, because Bruce is presumed dead in riots. The Wayne name and legacy still belongs to his parents as shown with the renaming of Wayne Manor into an orphanage. Bruce's arc in the public sense seems unresolved to me. Fraud would've been proven in regards to his stock losses but that's it. Then they built up scene after scene of Bane terrorising Gotham. This big grand obstacle to overcome. But the finale is tired and unsatisfying.

Now, Bruce climbs out of the pit and walks down to the desert. He's still in another country. The movie just picks up with Bruce walking around the Gotham streets. Getting back into the country, let alone Gotham, is an important plot point. I'd argue it's more important than doing the climb. The clib means nothing if you can't get back inside - inside a City that is on serious lockdown. I suppose I'm willing to suspend my disbelief here if the movie provided their explanation, eg. he followed a secret cave tunnel back into the batcave. But the movie or novelisation (again, I shouldn't have to look elsewhere for the answers) says nothing about it. Did Nolan and company simply have no explanation as to how he got back in, and chose to ignore it? I found the sudden jump in environment jarring.

I know this may sound very self important of me, but I honestly believe people like you and me could've ended this story better than what we got. And mainly because we would've watched the other two films (did Nolan and company pay attention to what they did before?!), seen the direction they were going, and carried with it.

Ending things is hard to do, draws criticism regardless etc, but this felt out of left field. It's like Nolan wanted us to believe Bruce had died for real, only to show at the last second, oh no he didn't. It really do dislike being negative about this movie but I am simply expressing my sheer disappointment because I wanted it to be good. I rank it down with the Schumacher flicks because whenever I watch/think about the movie, I can't enjoy myself either from the plot, pacing or tone. These things just keep lingering and cannot be shaken.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 13 Aug  2012, 07:21Now, Bruce climbs out of the pit and walks down to the desert. He's still in another country. The movie just picks up with Bruce walking around the Gotham streets. Getting back into the country, let alone Gotham, is an important plot point. I'd argue it's more important than doing the climb. The clib means nothing if you can't get back inside - inside a City that is on serious lockdown. I suppose I'm willing to suspend my disbelief here if the movie provided their explanation, eg. he followed a secret cave tunnel back into the batcave. But the movie or novelisation (again, I shouldn't have to look elsewhere for the answers) says nothing about it. Did Nolan and company simply have no explanation as to how he got back in, and chose to ignore it? I found the sudden jump in environment jarring.

Yep. Now, some people would say you're being nitpicky there but I'm not in that number. The Army dude was serious enough about keeping people the hell inside the city that he blew up the only means of exit. Nolan is the one who raised those stakes, not us. I don't think it's out of line for fans and viewers to ask him to abide by his own rules. "Nobody goes in, nobody gets out". That's the rule. Fine. Show us how Bruce got back in without running afoul of it. Any decent writer could come up with something so you'd think "the most visionary director of our generation" could do it in his sleep. I mean, isn't this the same guy who spent, what, five minutes setting up how Bruce smuggled himself into China in TDK?

Separately, I read a conspiracy theory waaaaaaaaay long ago. Maybe a year or something. But basically in it the guy tossed out the suggestion that Nolan's heart just wasn't in TDKRises. Maybe he'd said everything he had to say about Batman by the time credits rolled with TDK, maybe Ledger's passing affected him deeply and Batman was soured for him as a result, maybe he didn't want to deal with any more of whatever BS comes with making these huge blockbuster studio movies, maybe he's just sick to piss of Batman, blah blah blah. Could be anything. But as a favor to Christian Bale (who, I gather, had one more Batman movie in his contract and didn't want to be directed by anybody else other than Nolan) he came back for one last film. So Nolan threw something together and, bam, there's your TDKRises, hoss.

In light of that, if you think of Bruce/Batman as Nolan's alter ego in these movies, things like Bruce being emotionally battered and tormented, Bruce wanting OUT and wanting to move on with his life and do other things, Bruce wanting to passing the baton off to somebody younger and hungrier to take Batman over, etc... these things suddenly have a new resonance, yes?

Mind you, I'm not saying I buy that theory (or that I reject it, for that matter) but I do wonder how much Nolan was personally invested in some aspects of TDKRises. The conclusion of the movie/trilogy cuts through a lot of stuff for me, as I say, but even still I do wonder how badly he really wanted a third helping of this.

I think the movie reflected the marketing campaign's vibe. A feeling of throwing it together.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwac.450f.edgecastcdn.net%2F80450F%2Fscreencrush.com%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F05%2FJjqYJi.gif&hash=f79499225be18264f398acd194d4e5cb0ceb26de)

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 13 Aug  2012, 07:21
I get they wanted Bruce to rise from this state into something more postive, but we don't get that, because Bruce is presumed dead in riots. The Wayne name and legacy still belongs to his parents as shown with the renaming of Wayne Manor into an orphanage. Bruce's arc in the public sense seems unresolved to me. Fraud would've been proven in regards to his stock losses but that's it. Then they built up scene after scene of Bane terrorising Gotham. This big grand obstacle to overcome. But the finale is tired and unsatisfying.

Indeed.  They could have included Bruce surviving and regaining his millions- tying into the character's "rise" from the ashes and reclaiming everything he lost- and using it to help the city at the end.  Batman's died, but Bruce Wayne lives to help a city no longer in need of a Batman and he can be a hero in his own skin.
Or they could have revealed to the city that Bruce was Batman all along, like in The Dark Knight Returns, and had the Wayne legacy truly restored after his noble sacrifice now that everyone in the city knows what he did for them, resolving that issue from Batman Begins.

Instead, to the public, Bruce is known as a rich douche who suddenly went reclusive for a few years, then tried to get some energy program off the ground, but failed when it got hijacked by terrorists who used it as a bomb to terrorize the city, and ended up getting killed in the riots.

His legacy?  His house gets turned into an orphanage and his inheritance goes to his butler.
Never mind the fact that he was already funding an orphanage for years until he stopped paying attention to it and his inheritance amounts to next to nothing now thanks to Bane (Sorry Alfred).

Strange, though.  There's a guy who looks JUST like Bruce Wayne chilling out at a restaurant in Florence, Italy...

QuoteSeparately, I read a conspiracy theory waaaaaaaaay long ago. Maybe a year or something. But basically in it the guy tossed out the suggestion that Nolan's heart just wasn't in TDKRises. Maybe he'd said everything he had to say about Batman by the time credits rolled with TDK, maybe Ledger's passing affected him deeply and Batman was soured for him as a result, maybe he didn't want to deal with any more of whatever BS comes with making these huge blockbuster studio movies, maybe he's just sick to piss of Batman, blah blah blah. Could be anything. But as a favor to Christian Bale (who, I gather, had one more Batman movie in his contract and didn't want to be directed by anybody else other than Nolan) he came back for one last film. So Nolan threw something together and, bam, there's your TDKRises, hoss.

In light of that, if you think of Bruce/Batman as Nolan's alter ego in these movies, things like Bruce being emotionally battered and tormented, Bruce wanting OUT and wanting to move on with his life and do other things, Bruce wanting to passing the baton off to somebody younger and hungrier to take Batman over, etc... these things suddenly have a new resonance, yes?

Mind you, I'm not saying I buy that theory (or that I reject it, for that matter) but I do wonder how much Nolan was personally invested in some aspects of TDKRises. The conclusion of the movie/trilogy cuts through a lot of stuff for me, as I say, but even still I do wonder how badly he really wanted a third helping of this.

Very interesting point, colors.  I've also heard this theory and I can't blame people for believing it or sharing it after seeing the film.

Let's say that it's true, though.  If Nolan really wanted out, why did he end The Dark Knight that way?  Why end his reign on the franchise with Batman being a self-proclaimed fugitive, on the run, with millions of Gothamites unaware of Harvey's true nature?  It'd be one thing if The Dark Knight had a Begins-type ending with The Joker and Two-Face in jail, and Batman standing over the city, ready to protect it once again.  Instead, we got something unresolved and begging for a follow-up.  If Nolan had any resentment about having to do a third movie, he only brought it on himself with the way he ended Dark Knight.

To get this thread back on topic, I think the general consensus here is that just because a film adapted something directly from the comics doesn't mean it worked in the context of the film.

A few examples from the article that Silver Nemesis and I wrote:
- "You're in for a show tonight, kid."  Yeah, it's nice they lifted this moment from The Dark Knight Returns.  But let's look at the context- everyone thinks Batman's a murderer who killed their hero, Dent.  So why is this old veteran cop smiling and rooting for Batman?  It's a nice moment in the comic.  It doesn't work here at all.

- No Man's Land.  It's obvious they saw the potential in adapting the premise.  Instead of having an earthquake be the cause, they made Bane lock down the city.  But the Bane-created No Man's Land turned out to be a stupid plan, in my opinion.  He holds the city hostage under the threat of a nuclear bomb...that he's going to detonate anyway?  Why bother taking over the city for months when your main objective is to destroy it?  If all he wants, really, is to nuke the city, why doesn't Bane just use that plane they used to hijack Dr. Pavel and drop a nuke on Gotham from above?  It'd be a lot quicker, simpler, and cut down on the chances of Batman/Bruce having the opportunity to stop you.

- Bruce Wayne still trusts Selina/Catwoman, despite her past crimes, because he knows that deep down, she's a good person.  In the comics, this is part of a long running arc, spanning years and years of encounters with Catwoman, who, over time, goes from a villain to antiheroine to ally.  In the movie, however, what does Selina do?  She steals Martha Wayne's necklace.  She takes Bruce's car.  She sells him out to Bane, likely knowing that Bruce wouldn't win the fight.  So why does Bruce think she's really a good person?  Because she saves a kid on the street?  I didn't buy it.

Quote from: BatmAngelus on Mon, 13 Aug  2012, 08:47Very interesting point, colors.  I've also heard this theory and I can't blame people for believing it or sharing it after seeing the film.

Let's say that it's true, though.  If Nolan really wanted out, why did he end The Dark Knight that way?

When it was written and shot, perhaps Nolan didn't think he'd end up as turned off by Batman as this theory suggests he would be. Perhaps he wanted to leave a potential replacement with an easy plot point. It's hard to speculate on the unknown, esp when we're already speculating on the unknown to begin with. But if Ledger's passing tarnished Batman for him, well, that happened pretty late in the game for TDK.

Anyway...

True.  I've also speculated in the Joker's Fate thread that there's a possibility that they had plans for the Joker to be the one to reveal the truth about Harvey in the third installment.  After all, it makes much more sense for him to do it and complete his plan from the previous movie than for Bane to do it.

Another thing to add.  I was rereading my Tales of the Demon collection and in one of the stories, "Where Strike the Assassins" (Detective Comics #489), the leader of the League of Assassins, The Sensei, says to a hostage, "You have my permission to die."

In a smaller note, the follow-up story, in Detective Comics #490, has a fight between Batman and the Ubu-like character Lurk, who yells "I'll break you!"  This story was from 1980 so obviously, Bane wasn't the first huge guy obsessed with breaking Batman.

GothamAlleys posted his comic book influences article.  Check it out: http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/2012/08/comic-book-references-in-movies-part.html

One thing that I also noticed, when reading Nightwing: Alfred's Return, is that Alfred went traveling around the world after leaving his post at Wayne Manor, going to Antarctica, the Bahamas, and London, similar to how Alfred took holidays during Bruce's absence and went to Florence after Bruce's "death."

Quote from: BatmAngelus on Tue, 14 Aug  2012, 15:49


Another thing to add.  I was rereading my Tales of the Demon collection and in one of the stories, "Where Strike the Assassins" (Detective Comics #489), the leader of the League of Assassins, The Sensei, says to a hostage, "You have my permission to die."

Hmm, do you have that panel? Ive been looking for this issue like crazy since you mentioned it here, but cant find it anywhere

Oh damn, I would, but I left the book at my parents' place two days ago after I finished rereading it, so I don't have it on me to scan.

Here's hoping Silver Nemesis can provide one for us.

Ta-daaa!

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Fdc489.jpg&hash=d6030759b915f2696766deaf6be3d5f44aff1180)

That's an interesting article, Alleys. You did a good job matching the panels to images from the movie.

One thing though –

QuoteSelina Kyle used to have a blonde companion (Holly/Jen) that she sort of took under her wings. Or claws if you will. Panel from Batman #460

Not to nitpick, but Holly is usually depicted as a redhead, not a blonde. And the girl in that panel you used from Batman #460 isn't Holly. It's a different character called Arizona. There is a flashback panel of Holly in that same issue, so you could always use that. I think the Arizona comparison is actually more appropriate, since she looks more like Jen and isn't a prostitute (or at least it's never explicitly stated she's a prostitute). So I can see why you used it.

And it's Silver Nemesis to the rescue!

While it's more likely a coincidence than an influence, there's certainly a similarity in the fact that both Bane and The Sensei are leaders of the League, saying it to someone they've taken prisoner.

Thanks! Yeah, I actually meant to compare Jen to Arizona, but never could remember her name, so I just assumed its Holly

First off, beautiful article.  Whatever issues I have with the recent Nolan film, I will certainly give nods for the film included as many comic references--many of them direct--that the film included.  I wish they had done things differently, of course, but ultimately I think the film is a defend-able Batman film--just don't ask *me* to defend it.  ;)

QuoteAgreed 100%.  I would've happily traded all the comic book connections to Dark Knight Returns, No Man's Land, and Knightfall in exchange for a better follow-up on TDK's ending and dealing with the ramifications of Batman and Gordon's decision to cover up Dent's crimes.

Yes. I also want to echo that Prey would have been awesome.  Missed opportunity. 

Gregg Bray is back!   ;D

Another thing to add that occurred to me.  This was not the first time that Robin had been reimagined as an adult investigator who figures out Bruce Wayne is Batman and pays him a visit at Wayne Manor.

In the Elseworlds comic, Batman: Nine Lives, Dick Grayson is reimagined as an ex-cop/private eye investigating the murder of Selina Kyle, who concludes that Bruce Wayne is Batman.  He arrives at Wayne Manor and meets Bruce Wayne, dressed in a robe:
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi76.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj29%2FBatmAngelus%2FCMCapture5.jpg&hash=f95c8426e6185d7570e165aeff89b86bcdc833b7)

Probably coincidental, I know, but I couldn't help but see the connection.

sh*t dudes! Kevin Smith has read your feature!

Go to his Fatman on Batman podcast

http://traffic.libsyn.com/fatmanonbatman/fatman-10.mp3

24mins and 20secs in and he talks about the feature. he can't remember the name of this site (sadly) but does say it is a batman movie centric site.

;D

Quote from: Paul (ral) on Sat,  1 Sep  2012, 23:35sh*t dudes! Kevin Smith has read your feature!

Go to his Fatman on Batman podcast

http://traffic.libsyn.com/fatmanonbatman/fatman-10.mp3

24mins and 20secs in and he talks about the feature. he can't remember the name of this site (sadly) but does say it is a batman movie centric site.

In some ways, I kind of like that he blanked on the name. "It's not [The Other Forum]."

I can live with that.

oh and at the 52 min 20 sec mark

we are now officially "That One Website"

This is what happens when you run a smartly written, all Bat-inclusive, celebratory cite--that also showcases an incredibly dedicated, thorough and excited/inquisitive posters and friends.

Well done Ral!  :)

Quote from: greggbray on Sun,  2 Sep  2012, 00:19
Well done Ral!  :)

Well done Silver Nemesis & BatmAngelus! All down to them  8)

Nice!  I had a feeling the article would get the site some attention.  Even if Smith can't remember the name  :(. 

Hope Silver Nemesis hears this soon, since his comparisons to The Cult were the ones that got mentioned.

QuoteIn some ways, I kind of like that he blanked on the name. "It's not [The Other Forum]."

I can live with that.

That is definitely nice compensation.   ;D

:o Kevin Smith described our feature as excellent! That's got to be one of the coolest compliments the site's ever received.

It's lovely to get positive feedback from anyone. But from someone like Smith in particular, who really knows his comics, it means a lot. This just made my day. And I'll bet BatmAngelus is grinning from ear to ear too.

Couldn't remember site name, but brought up the feature, and the gist of what the site is about.

As Meatloaf would say; "Two out of three ain't bad."

Stumbled across this last night:
http://www.batmanytb.com/comics/titles/batman/0_100/batman40.php

Batman #40 had a story called "The Case of Batman II" which, according to Batman YTB, was about the following:

QuoteWhen Bruce Wayne dies in an accident, Robin and Alfred are forced to find a new Batman. They enlist a gymnast named Bill Randall, who replaces the Caped Crusader. The new Batman and Robin then defeat the gang of escaped convict Beetle Boles with help from Alfred.

Later, when Bruce's will is read, he turns up alive. He faked his death in order to expose his lawyer who doctored the will. Bruce was really Bill Randall all along. Robin was in on the trick, but Alfred was not in order for his grief to fool the lawyer.

Bruce/Batman faking his death and Alfred not knowing about it?  And I thought that was a jerk move original to the movie!

Also worth noting is that this story was preceded years earlier by a 1944 comic strip in the newspaper called "The Secret of Triangle Farm" where, as a predecessor to Knightfall decades later, Bruce/Batman is incapacitated and Robin must work with a new Batman- Bill Randall.

Here, Randall is NOT Bruce in disguise, but a separate character. 

He's a GCPD cop!  Specifically, a sergeant.

Now, even though the film stated that Blake was promoted to detective, the official description here (I believe it's from The Dark Knight Rises: Secret Files Scrapbook that was an official tie-in) says that he's a sergeant:
http://i.imgur.com/I1Jyvl.jpg

Don't quote me on this, but this story may have been the first time in history that Batman ever needed a replacement.  The fact that his first choice was an upstanding Gotham City cop whose name was reused in a comic issue in which Bruce faked his death and kept it from Alfred seems eerily coincidental.

For those curious about the Triangle Farm story, Sgt. Randall's Batman ends up sharing the same fate that many have speculated for John Blake's Batman.

He gets killed.

A belated congrats on the Smith shout-out!

Speaking of Smith, I was listening to Kevin Smith and Marc Bernardin's commentary on The Dark Knight Returns Part 2 last night and they noted that Batman's EMP gun in Rises may have been inspired by the sonic gun in Miller's comic when Batman faces off against Superman:
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg36.imageshack.us%2Fimg36%2F7967%2Fimg0019kb.jpg&hash=15a333b341b02b794998e4fe524bd68d7969badc)

I'm not sure about it since the gun is a different design and has a different purpose from the EMP gun in the movie, but thought I'd point it out.

Funny enough, a "Sonic Neutralizer" was sold as a toy for the 1989 Batman movie (scroll to the bottom).
http://www.legionsofgotham.org/FIGURESmoviesTDKC.html
http://www.legionsofgotham.org/ActionFigures/Movie/TDKC/TDKCrpSonicNeutralizer.jpg

Yeah, they're quite different really. One of them is a sonic gun, the other an electromagnet. If anything, I think the EMP rifle was closer to Adam West's super powered bat-magnet from the sixties TV show.


But it's cool that Smith is looking for the same comic-to-movie parallels we are. It's only a pity he doesn't post on these boards so he could contribute to our features.

I'd say that's a closer match.  I'm going to get into the 1960s series soon, from whatever episodes I can find.  Which episode(s) does Batman use that bat-magnet?

Also, I just finished reading The Cult and wow...I would be very surprised if Goyer and the Nolan brothers hadn't read this one.  Great call on including it in the comic book influences feature, Silver.  After going through it, I think TDKRises adapted more of this comic than any of the others that get cited. 

To recap, here's what Silver Nemesis pointed out in the feature:
- the villain recruiting the army of homeless in the sewers
- the execution of influential citizens
- the public hanging of dead bodies
- Bruce getting captured, broken, and left to hang
- Bruce spending time in exile and returning to Gotham as Batman
- Bruce/Batman visiting Gordon in the hospital.  (Note: In the comic, Gordon is shot by a sniper while on the podium.  It's possible this is what influenced the previous film when Gordon was "shot" by Joker and faked his death).

Here are a few other similarities I caught:
- A fight in the sewers between Batman and the villain in front of the villain's underlings, where one of them gets broken and defeated.  (In the comic, this is how Batman defeats Deacon Blackfire.  I think the Nolans and Goyer combined this setting with the Knightfall Batcave fight)
- The villain mentally and physically "breaks" Batman, which Bruce has to recover from.
- the class warfare element.  Nolan can cite A Tale of Two Cities and the media can cite the Occupy movement, but I say this part came from writer Jim Starlin in The Cult.
- The Mayor gets blown up by the villain.
- Batman, while imprisoned, gets told legends of the villain's origins, which may or may not be true.
- Bruce/Batman is imprisoned underground and has to escape.
- The villain has a ton of followers/believers and plans to be a martyr by dying for his cause
- Batman having to resort to guns.  In the comic, it's with tranquilizer rifles.  In the movie, it's with the machine guns on The Bat
- The villain blows up the bridges that lead up to Gotham and fights off all of the government's attempts to re-enter the city and maintain order.  (Bane's takeover is very similar to Deacon Blackfire's and makes me feel that the movie was trying to emulate this part of The Cult as opposed to No Man's Land).
- In the finale, Batman storms in with his latest assault vehicle and leads an army to take back Gotham.

Quote from: BatmAngelus on Wed,  1 May  2013, 17:11Also, I just finished reading The Cult and wow...I would be very surprised if Goyer and the Nolan brothers hadn't read this one.  Great call on including it in the comic book influences feature, Silver.  After going through it, I think TDKRises adapted more of this comic than any of the others that get cited.

I do too since you mention it. I realize No Man's Land is the more popular and well-known story but I think the real influence is The Cult. As you say, you can draw a much straighter line between TDKRises and The Cult than NML.

I haven't actually read The Cult right the way through since 2008, so everything I included in The Dark Knight Rises feature was recalled from memory. BatmAngelus' analysis is a lot more in-depth. These new observations help validate the comparison even further.

QuoteI do too since you mention it. I realize No Man's Land is the more popular and well-known story but I think the real influence is The Cult. As you say, you can draw a much straighter line between TDKRises and The Cult than NML.

Agreed. I never thought No Man's Land was that great a story anyway. And I certainly never felt as though Batman was really broken by what he went through in those books. It always seemed like he had at least a modicum of control over the situation. But in The Cult he is well and truly broken. It's one of the bleakest, most harrowing Batman comics I've ever read. It should really have its own thread on the Graphic Novels board.

Ask and you shall receive!
http://www.batman-online.com/forum/index.php?topic=2344.0

Now that the movie is available to own, we should edit the feature with these new comparisons, add screenshots, and put everything in chronological order like our other features.

QuoteI'd say that's a closer match.  I'm going to get into the 1960s series soon, from whatever episodes I can find.  Which episode(s) does Batman use that bat-magnet?

I seem to recall the bat-magnet looks different each time it shows up, normally resembling a giant cartoon magnet. But that particular image where it looks like a rifle is taken from 'The Bookworm Turns'/'While Gotham City Burns'.

QuoteNow that the movie is available to own, we should edit the feature with these new comparisons, add screenshots, and put everything in chronological order like our other features.

Sure thing. I should have some free time this weekend. By the way, I don't suppose you ever heard back from Michael Uslan about our comic analysis features?

I will take the feature offline later tonight (need to change a disclaimer for the missing feature) so you guys can work on it.

Ready now!

Thanks, Paul.  Silver Nemesis and I will get working.  Prepare for a lot of image uploads!

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu,  2 May  2013, 11:03

QuoteI'd say that's a closer match.  I'm going to get into the 1960s series soon, from whatever episodes I can find.  Which episode(s) does Batman use that bat-magnet?

I seem to recall the bat-magnet looks different each time it shows up, normally resembling a giant cartoon magnet. But that particular image where it looks like a rifle is taken from 'The Bookworm Turns'/'While Gotham City Burns'.

Thanks!  I'll check it out.

Quote

QuoteNow that the movie is available to own, we should edit the feature with these new comparisons, add screenshots, and put everything in chronological order like our other features.

Sure thing. I should have some free time this weekend. By the way, I don't suppose you ever heard back from Michael Uslan about our comic analysis features?

Sadly, no.  I've only heard from his son, who thought they were great.  I'll email him again when we get this one revised (and probably again after that when we do Begins and Dark Knight).

Oh...I have a possible (kinda random) connection for Begins when we do it :-)

QuoteSadly, no.  I've only heard from his son, who thought they were great.  I'll email him again when we get this one revised (and probably again after that when we do Begins and Dark Knight).

I'm glad to hear his son enjoyed them. I'll bet he shares his dad's knowledge and appreciation of the Batman mythology. But it would be nice if Michael himself could give us a comment we could include. I know I've said this a billion times, but for me the Holy Grail would be a quote confirming the influences on Batman Returns. If we could just get one sentence confirming that Detective Comics #58 and Catwoman: HSK were consciously referenced, then I could die a happy geek. Waters and Burton obviously aren't going to give us that information, so I reckon Uslan is our only hope.

QuoteOh...I have a possible (kinda random) connection for Begins when we do it :-)

Now I'm intrigued...

Involves spelunking...

It wouldn't be anything to do with Sam Hamm's Batman II script, would it?

No, I'm reading through the Bruce Wayne: Fugitive storyline.

Dick goes "spelunking" in a part of the cave.

Ah, I see. I was thinking of this scene in the Batcave from Hamm's script:

QuoteALFRED
               Sir?  -- MASTER BRUCE??

     As if in response, BATS screech and flutter in the distant
     recesses of the cavern.  ALFRED turns suddenly and sees BRUCE
     behind him, suspended from a thin filament wire, RISING OUT OF
     A BOTTOMLESS ABYSS.

                               BRUCE
               I'm not deaf, Alfred.  I hear you.

     He's wearing his civvie -- tweed pants and cashmere sweater --
     but he's got the utility belt, with its spring-action reel,
     buckled about his waist.  Clutching a bundle, he hangs in
     midair for a moment, dangling over the void.

Reminds me a bit of the scene in Batman Begins.

Yeah, probably was more likely :-)

This feature has now been updated, with several new references added from The Cult!  Check it out.
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2012/7/29/comic-influences-on-the-dark-knight-rises

It seems a writer on ComicBookMovie saw fit to rip off the article last October

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/comicrants/news/?a=68112

I have lodged a complaint with the site - they really should, at the very least, give you guys a credit

And of course those plagiarists require registration before you can post comments.

Mind you, any page that posts that goddamn many lists ("top five coolest 80's cartoons that deserve a movie today", "top ten best 70's TV show theme songs", "top six weirdest facts about Kim Kardashian's clit", etc) is run by nothing but revenue-chasing bottom feeders.

Looks like the CBM post is gone.  Thanks for looking out, Paul.

In the meantime, it seems that Jim Starlin deems The Cult similarities coincidental:

Quote
Have you seen Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight Rises and did you notice that it was in some part inspired by your writing? Even using Bane instead of Deacon Blackfire can't prevent The Cult reader from noticing the similarity.

J.S.: I don't see that. I went to the movie, having heard that other viewers thought the same thing as you. But I've talked with Dan Didio, who was at many of the Nolan writing conferences, and most of The Dark Knight Rises came from stories Chuck Dixon wrote.

He also didn't care much for the movie either:

QuoteDo you like cinema/TV adaptations of Batman? Do you have a favourite one?

J.S.: I liked the first two Nolan Batman movies quite a bit. I'm one of the few people around that thought the last movie fell apart and didn't work.

http://www.gothamwdeszczu.com.pl/en/2013/05/10/an-interview-with-jim-starlin-2/

It's such a shame that someone had the nerve to steal all that work and claim it as their own. I hope it doesn't happen often here - the last we'd want is to start keeping features exclusive to registered users.

@SilverNemesis

Did you include Bane's jacket from Batman: Vengeance of Bane II: The Redemption?

(https://i.imgur.com/E0et2n5.jpg)

I think it could qualify. Very good story, by the way.

No, we missed this one. Good find, TDK. This comic could well have influenced the Nolan Bane's appearance, which in turn influenced the look of the New 52 Bane.

This thread consists of, like, eight pages and I'm far too lazy to sift through all of it. So, forgive me if this has been brought up on some previous page.

But the feature makes reference to Batman wearing an arm brace in TDKR, speculating that this inspired Bruce wearing a leg brace in TDKRises. And who knows?

Still, the leg brace seemed to enhance Bruce's strength in his leg and allow him to regain his mobility. I can't believe I never made this connection before (and I may very well have made this connection before and have simply forgotten it from some previous page) but that is VERY similar to Detective Comics Annual #04, part of the Armageddon 2001 crossover.

Bruce builds a partial exo-skeleton in that story to allow him to overcome his damage body's limitations. Specifically, the exo-skeleton most prominently affects his legs. And like the movie, the exo-skeleton enhances his abilities rather than simply allowing him to function normally.

The more likely (and more relevant) inspiration for the leg brace is still the arm brace from TDKR. But still, I thought the exo-skeleton from Detective Comics Annual #04 at least warranted a mention here.

(https://i.ibb.co/9TCJMb1/detective-comics-annual04-pg-28.jpg)

As a sidenote, Detective Comics Annual #04 is a pretty good story with a pretty action-filled, explosive ending to Bruce's journey.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 20 Mar  2020, 19:53
No, we missed this one. Good find, TDK. This comic could well have influenced the Nolan Bane's appearance, which in turn influenced the look of the New 52 Bane.

(https://i.postimg.cc/L8gXrcFt/bane1.png)

(https://i.postimg.cc/LsdXRxmr/bane2.png)

Is that from a comic that came out before TDKR was filming?

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon,  6 Apr  2020, 19:34
This thread consists of, like, eight pages and I'm far too lazy to sift through all of it. So, forgive me if this has been brought up on some previous page.

Another good addition to the thread. I don't think anyone mentioned Detective Comics Vol 1 #4 in relation to The Dark Knight Rises before now. However I did mention the ending of that story in the 'Comics in which Batman kills' thread, and I'm pretty sure we referenced the Armageddon 2001 storyline in the Batman v Superman comic influences feature; specifically with regards to Batman killing Superman at the end of 'Execution 2001' (Superman Annual Vol 2 #3, May 1991).


Come to think of it, this should really be in the 'Comics in which Batman kills' thread too. Unfortunately I can't seem to find the Batman v Superman feature online anymore. Looks like it's vanished from the site.

Quote from: Dagenspear on Tue,  7 Apr  2020, 08:05Is that from a comic that came out before TDKR was filming?

No, those panels are from Forever Evil Aftermath: Batman vs. Bane (June 2014). Scott Eaton's Bane was influenced by Hardy's.

Noticed this from Gotham Noir. Gordon wakes up near water with a dead body nearby, similar to the themes around his sewer escape from Bane. Blake rescues Gordon from the outflow due to bodies being found in the vicinity previously.

(https://i.imgur.com/AkMELDj.jpg)

Speaking of that scene, did we miss an obvious comic influence from Knightfall? I'm thinking about the scene where Tim Drake meets Bane in 'Crocodile Tears' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #660, May 1993). In both stories one of Batman's allies is taken prisoner in a tunnel while investigating the activities of Bane and his cohorts. Batman's ally is then taken to the sewers where he witnesses a display of Bane's prowess: Tim sees Bane fight Killer Croc, while Gordon sees Bane kill one of his own henchmen. The scene ends with Batman's ally escaping by falling into the water and riding the current to freedom.


In both stories this occurs before Batman himself has faced off against Bane.

Can't believe I never noticed that before. But at a minimum, that comic book bit in the sewer surely had to be an influence on the movie concept of Bane's underground hideout. The multiple levels, the waterfall, it seems pretty specific.

GothamAlleys listed this one on his blog on August 17, 2012.

http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/2012/08/comic-book-references-in-movies-part.html

So he did. I hadn't checked his blog.

Argh! Here's something else I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else (after a quick glance)!

(https://i.imgur.com/aILwKqm.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/cMzzt97.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/OL2XknJ.jpg)

These pages from Hush show an airborne hijacking where one plane overtakes another, someone breaks into the second plane, kidnaps a VIP character and then makes a swift escape. Bonus points for the Talia connection.

Honestly, it's the combination of ALL those things that makes me wonder if this might have been a real inspiration for TDKRises. If just one of those elements wasn't included in Hush, I might not be posting this now. But the jet-to-jet hijacking, kidnapping AND the Talia angle makes me wonder that someone involved with the movie looked very closely at this part of Hush.

Obviously, the movie goes a pretty different way with the movie sequence. But that aside, the similarities seem to go pretty deep if you ask me.

Thoughts?