Charlie Kaufman, screenwriter for "Being John Malkovich", "Adaptation", "Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind", ect, briefly discusses during a podcast interview a pitch he made to Jack Nicholson about reprising an ageing Joker for a character study film.
He doesn't give a precise year, but he makes a reference that it was in the pre cellphone days, so possibly late 1990s or very early 2000's?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmk2VqFe2X0
From what little info is given, it sounds like this film would have been a Jack Nicholson jokerized version of both "About Schmidt", and "The Bucket List" to some extent. The timing of "About Schmidt" is really interesting, considering that film came out in 2002 and one of the underlying themes of the film, was Jack's character ageing and the feeling of uselessness.
This is a bit curious because the late Nineties is around the time when "Batman 5" was rumored to have a cameo appearance by the Joker, which Nicholson himself seemed to tease in a quote he gave while doing press for (I think) As Good As It Gets.
It seems like The Universe or something wanted Nicholson to reprise that role in the Nineties.
Seeing Jack return as the Joker in 1999, chewing up the scenery in a (i assume) fear induced hallucinated sequence, would have been outstanding to watch! I don't recall anticipating 1997's Batman and Robin as much as I did 1995's Batman Forever, but I think Jack's participation in a 1999 Batman Triumphant/Unchained would have definitely had me counting the days until the release date.
For some reason, I kinda get the feeling that this pitch for a Joker movie might have been some time, or shortly after Warners decided to cancel the 5th Batman movie in the series. I can't imagine Jack not mentioning that he was already in prep to return as the Joker for a Batman movie when this pitch was being made, unless the deal (and movie) had already been dropped at that point.
For all we know, the concept of playing a character who is ageing and feels ineffective as a result, might have been something that appealed to him, and thus was a seed that was planted in Jack's mind during the pitch, which resulted in him later starring in 2002's "About Schmidt". Even though there's virtually no similarities between the characters other than what Kaufman was pitching here.
Via EOnline/Archive.org
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTeBjDDUAAAuC8L?format=jpg&name=large)
Well, The Pledge was released in 2001, and these comments from Jack Nicholson might have been following the aforementioned one-off Joker movie pitch from Charlie Kaufman. As it comes across like Nicholson himself had his own idea in resurrecting his Joker.
It's abundantly clear that Jack had a real zest for playing the Joker (even years following his portrayal), and not gonna lie, I would still love to know exactly what he had in mind.
It's stupefying to me that this never happened. Nicholson was easily one of the most popular aspects of B89. People are still in awe of his performance today.
If ever there was a no-brainer...
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 2 Jun 2022, 21:00
It's stupefying to me that this never happened. Nicholson was easily one of the most popular aspects of B89. People are still in awe of his performance today.
If ever there was a no-brainer...
Very true.
Another interesting subtext about this, is that both Nicholson and Kaufman's pitches were basically in that post-Batman Unchained phase where a 5th Batman film (presumably featuring only a Jack Nicholson Joker hallucination cameo via Scarecrow fear toxin due to Scarecrow and Harley Quinn being the main villains) was no longer in active development. Nicholson's pitch, to his credit,
sounds like he was aiming for a full blown return, rather than what's often been stated about his participation as a glorified cameo in the ultimately cancelled Batman Unchained.
In addition, it's not like WB were fully prepared to scrap the Burton/Schumacher Batman continuity by 2001 anyways, as the cancelled Wolfgang Peterson/Akiva Goldsman script for "Batman vs. Superman" was turned in the following year (2002), and featured a story that could easily be viewed as an extension of the 1989-1997 continuity (retired Batman, dead allies, Joker return from the dead, ect).
You have to wonder, if Jack Nicholson had been successful in jump starting the franchise again during the early 2000's by signing on for a starring role as the Joker again, what would the effects of that have been? Would Burton had, as a consequence, been a little more interested in returning as director to bookend the series if he was asked to? Would Keaton?
Given it was the early 2000's, and following the success that New Line Cinema saw with Blade, and Fox with X-Men, I would like to believe that WB would have been less sensitive about McDonalds parents, and more prone to give creative leeway as they did back in B89, but then again, it's WB. They have a history of being note happy, and overly reactive to their very own detriment. Plus, this time frame would have been shortly after the disastrous AOL/Time Warner merger, so who's to say?
In any event, it would just have been a real treat seeing Jack back as the Joker one more time. That much is for sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcv9BRdF_Qk&t=3s
Pretty good video going over the planned but cancelled resurrections and references of Jack Nicholson's Joker during the 1992-1997 Burton/Schumacher era, and beyond (which this thread was focusing upon for the most part).
The host, Ben. does a good job in providing information about these examples. Even going into the short-lived Newspaper strip that was loosely connected to B89, and references to Nicholson's Joker from the Peter David "Batman Forever" novelization in 1995.
I don't believe I've ever even heard of the notion of having Nicholson's Joker pulling a 'Wally Keefe' and causing Billy Dee Williams' Harvey Dent to become Two-Face by suicide as a cold opening of sorts for "Batman Returns", but it's pretty wacky. As a kid, I probably would have liked it since I seem to have a vague memory of, following seeing the "Batman Returns" trailer for the first time, hoping to see Jack Nicholson's Joker in BR in at least a flashback or something since I was (and still am) such a unabashed Nicholson Joker stan. However, trashing this idea was definitely for the best. Having Joker actually surviving a, what is said to be around a 800 feet tall fall from the Gotham Cathedral, is a bit too "King Kong Lives" for my tastes. Plus it would have been just a cameo at that. Hell, I'd rather they have done some variation of "The Joker walks the Last Mile" where he's brought back from the dead, rather than actually surviving the fall.
Ben also makes a good point about the rejected Sam Hamm script for "Batman 2" where it's revealed that Jack Napier was hired to kill the Waynes by the 'Five Families of Gotham' not being such a radical idea, since Bill Finger did a similar retcon with Joe Chill being hired by Lew Moxon back in 1956.
Definitely worth checking out if you have the time.
The AMC Orange 30 Theater in CA. once used a image of Jack Nicholson's Joker adjoining posters featuring an assortment of classic film characters.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAIysIObsAAvq-n?format=jpg&name=medium)
I was watching an interview with Arnold Schwarzenegger on the Rich Eisen Show, and I saw this great portrait of Nicholson as both Jack Torrance and the Joker.
(https://i.imgur.com/r9tgarW.jpg)
Jack's has had so many great roles in his career, but it's also safe to say that his portrayals as The Joker, and Jack Torrance are decidedly in the top tier range of his most popular performances.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cemL2F-cmJI
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Revuecinema recently had a 35th anniversary screening, which featured a new Jack Nicholson Joker poster for the film.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDP-4hoXYAA7hUm?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 13 Jan 2024, 03:52Jack's has had so many great roles in his career, but it's also safe to say that his portrayals as The Joker, and Jack Torrance are decidedly in the top tier range of his most popular performances.
Much as I love Jack's acting in Batman '89, I'd say his best Joker performance was in The Shining. I watched it again last year around Halloween, and it holds up as one of the most remarkable horror movies ever made. I don't know if it's my favourite Kubrick film, but it's the one I've re-watched the most number of times. Jack's performance is hilarious and haunting. It's impossible to take your eyes off him whenever he's on screen.
One of the many fan theories about Ledger's Joker is that he might be an adult Danny Torrance. Maybe the origin story Joker told Gambol was true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8uCER0GGKc
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 13 Jan 2024, 19:59Much as I love Jack's acting in Batman '89, I'd say his best Joker performance was in The Shining. I watched it again last year around Halloween, and it holds up as one of the most remarkable horror movies ever made. I don't know if it's my favourite Kubrick film, but it's the one I've re-watched the most number of times. Jack's performance is hilarious and haunting. It's impossible to take your eyes off him whenever he's on screen.
Very much agree. Just as Die Hard's skyscraper is perfect for an action movie, an empty hotel is perfect for horror. I love the movie because it could easily be a film about relationship decay without any ghostly apparitions ever being present. Jack is younger, hungrier and delivers an all time performance. But his Joker remains held in high esteem for the balance of clownish mischief and darkness. He's the type of Joker I'd like to see on screen again in the future.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 13 Jan 2024, 19:59Much as I love Jack's acting in Batman '89, I'd say his best Joker performance was in The Shining.
I can understand what you are saying, but here's the thing, the Joker is very much a mischievous trickster type of character. An consummate inversion of social norms. While I agree it's absolutely mesmerizing watching Jack in "The Shining" descend more and more into unadulterated madness, to where Nicholson's Jack Torrance has literally regressed to howling into the night not unlike a rabid animal near the conclusion of the film, it's sorely missing the trickster archetype. Just the right mix of laughter and menace. Which B89 (and BTAS Joker) has in spades. Where Batman is the embodiment of precision and discipline, the Joker represents unrestrained spontaneity and mayhem. All for nothing more than for his own personal amusement. Unlike Torrance, Nicholson's Joker serves only himself. If he were to have a higher calling, it would be to cause as much harm and sorrow to the people of Gotham as possible. Golden Age Joker liked to kill, and he also liked his victims to know that death was coming too, all just so they could stew in their fear. Which is gloriously illustrated with the comical (but actually really dark when you think about it) "Smylex" infomercial. Resulting in his victims' appearances being reflective of his own visage. A true narcissist. Yet another character trait that is more traditionally representative of the Joker character.
Course, we all have our preferences for "our" Batman and Joker interpretations, ect, but I (overall) lean more into the trickster motif where the Joker is incredibly unpredictable, and also visually shown using deadly Smylex/Venom gas, but also including an arsenal corresponding with a squirting acid lapel flower, trick guns, and other various weapons disguised as toys or harmless pranks. Seeing Nicholson's Joker use a electric joy buzzer on a confrontational mob boss, gleefully singing while the guy is frying to death, then following that up with a morbid "chat" with the charred corpse, is just about as "Joker" as it gets. ;)
As an aside, I usually always get a laugh out of this one.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDDRtBKaMAALdM4?format=jpg&name=large)
"Here, let me lend you a hand!" I remember reading criticisms of Nicholson's Joker (mainly from IMDB forums and maybe SuperHeroHype back in the day), and that it's out-of-character for him to be in love with Vicki Vale. Which is weird. Cause that's definitely not the case of what's going on in B89. He's no more in love with her than he was with Alicia. There's a argument to be made that Jack Napier was a womanizer prior to the big dip, and wanted to remain one as the Joker, but love? Nah. He's either prone to falling out of love on a whim, or he gets bored really quick. Resulting in lethal consequences. Take your pick.
QuoteI watched it again last year around Halloween, and it holds up as one of the most remarkable horror movies ever made. I don't know if it's my favorite Kubrick film, but it's the one I've re-watched the most number of times. Jack's performance is hilarious and haunting. It's impossible to take your eyes off him whenever he's on screen.
Oh, for sure! "The Shining" is a masterpiece. Through and through. I would say it's my favorite Kubrick film, thanks in part to Jack Nicholson's performance. I remember Steven Spielberg stating in an interview that he once had a conversation with Stanley Kubrick, and admitted to Kubrick that he thought Nicholson's performance was over the top, and compared it to Japanese Kabuki theatre. Defending Nicholson's performance, Kubrick asked Spielberg to list his five favorite actors of all time. Spielberg began listing names, and Kubrick stopped him. Asking,
"Where was James Cagney on that list? You don't consider James Cagney one of the five best actors around, but I do."
"'And this is why Jack Nicholson's performance is a great one'." 8) 8) 8)
QuoteOne of the many fan theories about Ledger's Joker is that he might be an adult Danny Torrance. Maybe the origin story Joker told Gambol was true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8uCER0GGKc
That's a pretty good video. I also liked this one. Basically what if Jack Torrance became the Joker. ;D
Warning: Language
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajX5rfM9gMU&pp=ygUlamFjayBuaWNob2xzb24gam9rZXIgc2hpbmluZyBkZWVwZmFrZQ%3D%3D
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 14 Jan 2024, 02:48https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajX5rfM9gMU&pp=ygUlamFjayBuaWNob2xzb24gam9rZXIgc2hpbmluZyBkZWVwZmFrZQ%3D%3D
Now that is brilliant. I love the moment he types on his typewriter sarcastically and the deepfaked expression renders his Joker face perfectly. This video deserves a million views.
While we're on the subject of deepfakes, here's Nicholson's Joker in Mortal Kombat 11.
https://youtu.be/29HTaUdhS3s?si=PUtB-2f8GBY91prU
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 15 Jan 2024, 14:20While we're on the subject of deepfakes, here's Nicholson's Joker in Mortal Kombat 11.
https://youtu.be/29HTaUdhS3s?si=PUtB-2f8GBY91prU
Ha! That's pretty nifty.
I'm watching the superhero stuff about Joker's return and they mentioned the "ever dance with the devil line.
They were saying how he doesn't say it all the time but he said it Bruce Wayne because he knows Bruce Wayne and he's 100% aware he killed the Wayne's. He's straight up making fun of Bruce and if anything finishing the job when he shoots him (both times he gets a joy out of it). Something I did not think of until they mentioned it.
The same YouTuber who deepfaked Joker's face on Jack Torrance also deepfaked Keaton's Batman in The Flash, albeit for a quick second.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xt017h7qnQo?feature=share
I have to say, the effects in that shot look better than most of the effects in The Flash. :-X
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Tue, 16 Jan 2024, 21:03I'm watching the superhero stuff about Joker's return and they mentioned the "ever dance with the devil line.
They were saying how he doesn't say it all the time but he said it Bruce Wayne because he knows Bruce Wayne and he's 100% aware he killed the Wayne's. He's straight up making fun of Bruce and if anything finishing the job when he shoots him (both times he gets a joy out of it). Something I did not think of until they mentioned it.
Could very well be. I always took it as rather ambiguous on whether the Joker really knew or not (could go either way and I'm fine with either/or), but if so, it illustrates a certain 'meanness' to his character that is continually understated. Which I like, as the Joker's actions are much more consequential and hateful, than what he's openly depicting to others with his demeanor.
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I was debating on where to post this, but since it's another vid where Nicholson's Joker is deepfaked, this is just as good a thread as any.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGpnXUIrFCs
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GL3xEjRX0AASG_K?format=jpg&name=large)