There isn't a serious movie within Batman & Robin

[Dagenspear]

Not only is the nature of the Joker's quote ironic, the irony is TDK is a movie which not only shares a lot of problems people have complained about BvS in terms of pretentiousness and darkness, but is even worse in comparison if you stop and think about it. And yet, I see a lot of people cherishing the movie and get very upset if somebody offers legitimate criticism against it. But whatever, let's ignore its problems and persist dumbing down a particular scene from another movie for a cheap laugh to perpetuate a lazy popular consensus.

While TDK's a dark movie I think, I think it's a movie with bright spots. I don't see how TDK is more pretentious than the movie that has a whole scene where Lex waxes nonsense by falsely comparing Superman to God. Where TDK I think makes points about different sides of humanity, BvS has Batman stand and say that men are good, a false statement.

[thecolorsblend]

falsely comparing Superman to God

Metaphors do not exist! If two things aren't exactly alike, they must be total opposites!

BvS has Batman stand and say that men are good, a false statement.

Character arcs do not exist! If a character believes something at the beginning of the movie, he must still believe it at the end!

[The Dark Knight]

At the end of the day, I think some fans need to take a step back and give a closer examination to themselves than some of these films they bash with bizarre levels of resentment. Because no matter how you color it, the concept weighs on the idea of a man dressing up to look like a bat with a ton of style points a bat doesn't have. While that notion certainly offers a wide canvas to explore a number of psychological and social themes, there is also an inherent fantasy quality that is likely more universal to it's appeal. No one will care what his personal struggles are if there is not a visual payoff in the form of his costumed presence.

Batman & Robin certainly speaks to many of those qualities that cater to the inner child in all of us that watch these movies. Perhaps the Joker was right when he said, " Why so serious?" Sometimes I think it's healthy to drop that veil of pretentiousness and just let these character breath on a very primal level that services the inner child and nothing of greater pursuit.  Perhaps the day has finally arrived to cut the shackles from this film and let it be said nothing is truly wrong here.

Interesting points to chew on here. I don't really agree with the 'he's dresses up as a bat so don't be so pretentious' idea. I think a degree of seriousness is needed for Batman, even though the premise seems silly. In that world, such activity is considered normal by the hero and the heightened world he exists in.

But at the same time, you're still right. Emotional complexity is important. But all the depth in the world won't really mean much unless we get the visual payoff of Batman gliding in to fight criminals. That has always been the main hook for me - the entry point, and I'm sure for many others.

Iconography sells us on comic characters.

The inner child aspect is very important, and it's what captures our imaginations in the first place. Secret entrances, the batcave, the bat themed vehicles, the gadgets and jumping off impossibly high buildings. These things provide the sense of fun. Nothing is 'truly wrong' with B&R. But the package isn't my thing. Adam West's show was to be laughed along with, while still being deadly serious in the pursuit of their villains. There was a sincerity from the performances of West and Ward that grounded everything.

I'm not convinced the tone for B&R is the same. But nor does it HAVE to be. A lighter tone is okay, it's just what we personally are willing to tolerate. For my tastes, Clooney's film did tip the scales too far into the silly direction. When it concerns Schumacher, Forever's tone was much more to my liking.

[Dagenspear]

Metaphors do not exist! If two things aren't exactly alike, they must be total opposites!

Character arcs do not exist! If a character believes something at the beginning of the movie, he must still believe it at the end!

I was talking about pretentiousness. But Superman is nothing like God.

[Andrew]

I think the only elements that seem particularly like parody/deliberate parody are Batman saying "Good night" to a thug after punching him through something, having his credit card and Robin being frozen in place after having a kiss blown and Batman carrying him off. Maybe Batman and Robin using doors as air-gliders and having skates on their boots (and how matter-of-factly they activate them) and Poison Ivy coming out of a gorilla. But the rest seems pretty much like trying to be a relatively to-be-taken serious action-adventure blockbuster, to follow and pretty much fit in with the predecessors, just very light and with more comic relief.

[Wayne49]

I think the only elements that seem particularly like parody/deliberate parody are Batman saying "Good night" to a thug after punching him through something, having his credit card and Robin being frozen in place after having a kiss blown and Batman carrying him off. Maybe Batman and Robin using doors as air-gliders and having skates on their boots (and how matter-of-factly they activate them) and Poison Ivy coming out of a gorilla. But the rest seems pretty much like trying to be a relatively to-be-taken serious action-adventure blockbuster, to follow and pretty much fit in with the predecessors, just very light and with more comic relief.

I agree. B&R on it's face is just a more colorful dive into the comic book realm that tries to exploit the more visual cues from that industry. It's doing essentially what a cartoon like Brave and the Bold was doing a few years back. There was this light hearted, yet thematic, treatment celebrating a simpler time without all the trappings that color him as dark and depressed. It certainly steps into those solemn areas briefly, but it's mission is crystal clear. It's a park ride in a comic book. I think it was offering some nods to the '66 show, but it was not trying to compete with the wit of that show so much as embrace what the comic book looked like during that whole period.

For myself, it has been a tremendous source of enjoyment when I need to throw in a movie that allows me to escape for a moment and just take a brief detour from the more complicated and serious aspects of life. It's pure escapism and I respect it for maintaining that kind of focus throughout the whole film. It serves its purpose well for me. I don't need my heroes brooding all the time.

[The Dark Knight]

I don't need my heroes brooding all the time.

I think there's something to be said for a LEISURELY atmosphere. The West series absolutely had it. If you can capture that atmosphere you have something that will usually stand the test of time and lend itself to multiple rewatches. The Burton films also had that leisurely feel even though the tone was darker in comparison to the 60s show. The Nolan films don't have that leisurely feel. They feel like disjointed, overlong documentaries for the most part.