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Monarch Theatre => Nolan's Bat => The Dark Knight Rises (2012) => Topic started by: BatmAngelus on Wed, 18 Jan 2012, 23:38

Title: The Dark Knight Rises, A Tale of Two Cities, and Fritz Lang?
Post by: BatmAngelus on Wed, 18 Jan 2012, 23:38
In the latest issue of EW, Chris Nolan cited that the film was influenced by Charles Dickens's A Tale of Two Cities as well as the films of Fritz Lang (presumably Metropolis).

A Tale of Two Cities is a classic.  I remember reading and enjoying it years ago in high school.  Apparently one of the chapters was named "Fire Rises."  There's also an issue of class warfare at the center of the conflict, which was heavily implied in the trailer during Selina's monologue.

As for Lang, any recommendations from people familiar with his work?  I haven't seen Metropolis yet.  I do remember from an interview with Jonah Nolan that the Dr. Mabuse films may have influenced his take on Joker in The Dark Knight.
Title: Re: The Dark Knight Rises, A Tale of Two Cities, and Fritz Lang?
Post by: GBglide on Fri, 20 Jan 2012, 10:08
I wish Nolan took some cues from Metropolis, then maybe his Gotham wouldn't be so boring.....
Title: Re: The Dark Knight Rises, A Tale of Two Cities, and Fritz Lang?
Post by: Azrael on Wed, 25 Jan 2012, 22:11
So it all comes full circle, in a way? We know which film was primarily influenced by works of German experssionism, like Metropolis or Dr. Caligari :)

Metropolis is really the only Lang film I am familiar with. It's still visually brilliant, and the 2010 BluRay restored version is highly recommended. Stellar picture quality, especially for such an old film (the few restored scenes look like scratched by cats, though).
Title: Re: The Dark Knight Rises, A Tale of Two Cities, and Fritz Lang?
Post by: Grissom on Mon, 30 Jan 2012, 16:57
I could say he has some solid influences, just hope the ideas of the film don't overtake the actual emotions that com eout of these ideas.
Title: Re: The Dark Knight Rises, A Tale of Two Cities, and Fritz Lang?
Post by: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 30 Jan 2012, 19:58
I'm a big fan of Lang and Weimar cinema in general. Metropolis is definitely my favourite of his films. I was fortunate enough to see it on the big screen when it was rereleased in 2010. A timeless classic.

As far as similarities with Nolan's films go, I say check out M (1931). It's a crime drama about a city being terrorised by a child killer known simply as 'M' (played by a young Peter Lorre). The citizens and police want him caught, so they start coming down hard on the criminal underworld. All the gangsters want the police off their backs, so they unite in an effort to hunt down M themselves. It then becomes a matter of who'll get to him first: the police or the gangsters.

It's a pretty good film and the one most reminiscent of Nolan's work, especially in relation to the moral themes concerning crime and punishment.

As regards the references to A Tale of Two Cities, I wonder if it's the theme of self-sacrifice. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan contained a lot of references to ATOTC, all of which culminated in the death of Mr Spock (echoing the noble demise of Sydney Carton in the book). I wonder if The Dark Knight Rises will have a similar ending...
Title: Re: The Dark Knight Rises, A Tale of Two Cities, and Fritz Lang?
Post by: gordonblu on Sun, 5 Feb 2012, 02:01
Another Fritz Lang film worth checking out (they all are actually) is one he made called Spies, slow moving but with fascinating visuals and another villainous turn by Rudolf Klein-Rogge (Rotwang in Metropolis).
Title: Re: The Dark Knight Rises, A Tale of Two Cities, and Fritz Lang?
Post by: BatmAngelus on Sun, 8 Jul 2012, 22:35
More insight into the Tale of Two Cities inspiration:
http://www.superherohype.com/news/articles/171563-christopher-nolan-on-the-dark-knight-rises-literary-inspiration

Quote"It just felt exactly the right thing for the world we were dealing with," says the director. "What Dickens does in that book in terms of having all his characters come together in one unified story with all these thematic elements and all this great emotionalism and drama, it was exactly the tone we were looking for."

I've been re-reading the book, but I'm not very far into it and just got to Charles Darnay's introduction.  I'd like to finish it before I watch the film, though.
Title: Re: The Dark Knight Rises, A Tale of Two Cities, and Fritz Lang?
Post by: johnnygobbs on Sun, 8 Jul 2012, 23:13
I can easily see how The Dark Knight might have been influenced by A Tale of Two Cities.  Bruce Wayne is in many ways like Sydney Carton the apparent wastrel who nevertheless sacrifices himself for the good of Charles Darnay his doppleganger.  Towards the end of The Dark Knight, Bruce/Batman does something similar by taking the wrap for the apparently unwarranted murder of Harvey Dent for the good of both Dent's reputation and the city as a whole (which recalls the infamous line "It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done..." to some extent, which Carton utters just before he assumes Darnay's place on the guillotine).  Wayne in his ordinary guise also assumes the persona of an arrogant, syboritic wastral whilst covertly sacrificing himself every night for the good of the city, whilst the ostensibly decent man, the city's 'white knight', Harvey Dent dies as a hero (taking his 'dark side' to the grace with him for all but Wayne, Gordon and Gordon's immediate family).
Title: Re: The Dark Knight Rises, A Tale of Two Cities, and Fritz Lang?
Post by: Paul (ral) on Sun, 8 Jul 2012, 23:22
"The Sea Rises" - interesting. I will definitely be looking into this book. Thanks BatmAngelus!
Title: Re: The Dark Knight Rises, A Tale of Two Cities, and Fritz Lang?
Post by: bobbym on Tue, 10 Jul 2012, 06:55
The tale of two cities is a wonderful story, I remember reading that in school.
Title: Re: The Dark Knight Rises, A Tale of Two Cities, and Fritz Lang?
Post by: BatmAngelus on Mon, 16 Jul 2012, 02:25
Another influence on the film seems to be David Lean's Doctor Zhivago:
QuoteNolan wanted The Dark Knight Rises, which will be released in theaters July 20, to feel like a historical epic. As he tells weekends on All Things Considered host Guy Raz, he looked to films like Fritz Lang's Metropolis, David Lean's Dr. Zhivago, and Ridley Scott's Blade Runner.
http://www.npr.org/2012/07/15/156625745/dark-knight-rises-but-saga-ends-for-director-nolan

I've been reading Tale of Two Cities and recently watched Metropolis and Doctor Zhivago.  I was surprised to find some fascinating similarities among that may or may not apply to Dark Knight Rises:
- wealthy protagonists (Darnay in Two Cities, Freder in Metropolis, Zhivago in Doctor Zhivago) who end up leaving luxury behind and settling for a more modest life.  Darnay and Zhivago end up being imprisoned or held captive against their will.
- Love stories at the core of each (though ironically, I found all of the romantic relationship developments in each to be rather rushed)
- class warfare that erupts in a revolution against a cruel upper class.  The revolution grows uglier and uglier and the revolutionaries become worse than the people they were revolting against.
- Family secrets- Darnay is secretly the nephew to the Marquis, Rotwang was in love with Frederson's late wife in Metropolis, Zhivago has a long lost half brother and Lara had an affair with Komarovsky
- Secret identities- Darnay's relation to the Marquis again, Hel the Machine taking on the role of Maria in Metropolis, Pasha becoming "Strelnikov" in Doctor Zhivago
- The idea of doubles- Darnay and Carton are lookalikes, there are two Marias in Metropolis
Title: Re: The Dark Knight Rises, A Tale of Two Cities, and Fritz Lang?
Post by: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 16 Jul 2012, 17:58
There's some great analysis going on here. I think we'll have to make a TDKR Cultural Allusions thread once the movie comes out on DVD.

I wrote an essay on A Tale of Two Cities while I was at university, but it's been a few years since I read it so my memory's a bit hazy. One parallel I remember between Dickens' novel and Metropolis is the disillusioned playboy (Carton/Freder) who whiles away their time in apathy, but ultimately finds meaningful purpose in the service of others. I can definitely see how that might carry over into TDKR, particularly regarding the depiction of Bruce Wayne as a washed up ex-Batman who gets drawn back into the action by the hand of fate.
Title: Re: The Dark Knight Rises, A Tale of Two Cities, and Fritz Lang?
Post by: BatmAngelus on Mon, 13 Aug 2012, 19:09
Well, now that the movie's out, the most obvious connections to Tale of Two Cities are:
- the ending of the movie with Batman's sacrifice tying into Sydney Carton's and Gordon reading quotes from the novel
- two of the character names.  Mr. Stryver is a lawyer and Carton's boss in the Dickens novel, while he is Daggett's associate in the movie. 

Also, apparently, Josh Stewart's henchman character was named Barsad.  He was the one who gave the exposition to the CIA Agent about Bane in the beginning, was shooting at the cops in the alley after Stryver attempted to kill Selina, gave the warning on the bridge that the city would blow up if anyone passed through, and ended up getting shot when escorting Talia to the Tumbler. 
Barsad is also the name of a spy in A Tale of Two Cities, who plays a big role towards the end in helping Sydney Carton replace Charles Darnay.

Let's go through my checklist of connections with the Dickens novel, Metropolis, and Zhivago:
Quote
- wealthy protagonists (Darnay in Two Cities, Freder in Metropolis, Zhivago in Doctor Zhivago) who end up leaving luxury behind and settling for a more modest life.  Darnay and Zhivago end up being imprisoned or held captive against their will.
Pretty much happened.  Bruce got stripped of his money and imprisoned by Bane.

Quote
- Love stories at the core of each (though ironically, I found all of the romantic relationship developments in each to be rather rushed)
Alright, there wasn't really a huge romance at the core of this one.  But it is funny to me how the relationships with Bruce and Miranda and Bruce and Selina were rushed as well.

Quote
- class warfare that erupts in a revolution against a cruel upper class.  The revolution grows uglier and uglier and the revolutionaries become worse than the people they were revolting against.
Eh, a little bit, but with all the talk about possible connections to the Occupy movement, there was little class warfare going on in comparison.

Quote
- Family secrets- Darnay is secretly the nephew to the Marquis, Rotwang was in love with Frederson's late wife in Metropolis, Zhivago has a long lost half brother and Lara had an affair with Komarovsky
This one's easy.  Look at the al Ghul family.  Ra's having a daughter.  Miranda secretly being Talia al Ghul.

Quote- Secret identities- Darnay's relation to the Marquis again, Hel the Machine taking on the role of Maria in Metropolis, Pasha becoming "Strelnikov" in Doctor Zhivago
Also easy and also coincidental since secret identities are part of the comics anyway.  Bruce/Batman.  Miranda/Talia.  And to a lesser extent, Selina/Catwoman and John Blake's real name being Robin.

Quote- The idea of doubles- Darnay and Carton are lookalikes, there are two Marias in Metropolis
Not much in here, other than the previously mentioned double identity.  Possibly the idea of there being a second Batman when John Blake finds the cave at the end.