That Alfred's vision of Bruce and Selina at the end was as ambiguous as it was (even if that wasn't the filmmakers' intentions)? I think the scene can come off as a hallucination by wishful thinking and also as something really seen and it's nice that it isn't totally clear which it is.
I disagree because before Lucius Fox was told by a couple of technicians assessing the Bat that Bruce Wayne had fixed the auto-pilot, which foreshadowed that he had survived the nuclear explosion.
I choose to view the conclusion of TDKRises as not literal. Batman (and Bruce) died in the explosion. After that, people saw what they wanted to see.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 21 Aug 2018, 11:13
I disagree because before Lucius Fox was told by a couple of technicians assessing the Bat that Bruce Wayne had fixed the auto-pilot, which foreshadowed that he had survived the nuclear explosion.
Same here. The rest of the scenes might have left that ambiguity (the necklace would have been a Selina nod) but with that one, it's like "Yeah, he lived." Plus I remember reading in an analysis that the cockpit of what he's in in his last shot looks different than the cockpit of the Bat, which obviously means he would be in something different when it exploded. I haven't looked at that for myself though.
Rises handled the ending the right way. It took us close to the edge but didn't take the plunge. Or at the very least gave viewers wiggle room for interpretation. A confirmed kill would be unnecessary and in my opinion be against the spirit of the franchise. I don't care if a Batman series, or any other series with a famous character, has a self-contained continuity. Batman, in this example, is a survivor who endures the impossible. That's why he's Batman.
Emotion can be elicited without killing an icon. It's a trend and I don't like it. Tony Stark. Logan. Possibly Batfleck. I don't see it as edgy, but rather a knife to the heart, and a reminder that we don't have any heroes left, and there is no respite from our depressing world, even in so called entertainment. Which perhaps makes it a sad but painfully accurate commentary on the rapid decline we are witnessing, before things really crater.
Whether it was Nolan or the studio's choice, I'm grateful for what Rises depicted. Especially now.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 29 Sep 2021, 07:28Whether it was Nolan or the studio's choice, I'm grateful for what Rises depicted. Especially now.
I can't prove it. But I think Nolan wanted to visibly off Batman onscreen, but WB put their foot down. So, they compromised on it to where Batman died in TDKRises if you wanted him to, or he survived if you wanted him to.
And like you, I think that serves the material better.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 29 Sep 2021, 12:26
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 29 Sep 2021, 07:28Whether it was Nolan or the studio's choice, I'm grateful for what Rises depicted. Especially now.
I can't prove it. But I think Nolan wanted to visibly off Batman onscreen, but WB put their foot down. So, they compromised on it to where Batman died in TDKRises if you wanted him to, or he survived if you wanted him to.
And like you, I think that serves the material better.
An element of Batman's charm is the element of romanticism. The idea that one man goes out every night to escape deathtraps, dodge bullets and destroy lairs. Reality is stretched, but that's why escapism is so powerful. It's not just the man, but the world in which he inhabits which makes it all possible.
I can buy Batman getting his back broken, because he is fallible. But anything else pushes things too far in my opinion. He can escape death every night except this one time? Death removes his ability to make choices, reflect and grow as a character. Kingdom Come is how I more imagine Batman's future. A battered body and alone, but still alive and kicking.