I had always thought that Jack Napier was a nod to Alan Napier from the 60's show.
Infact, according to Sam Hamm, he (Sam) chose the name from "jackanapes".
If you are like myself and don't know what jackanapes means here you go:
A conceited person, marked by contemptuous or cocky boldness or disregard of others.
Someone who is unimportant but cheeky and presumptuous.
Sums up Jack before he became the Joker alright.
FYI, jackanapes is a variant of Jakken-apes, literally: Jack of the ape, nickname of William de la Pole (1396-1450), first Duke of Suffolk, whose badge showed an ape's ball and chain.
Well you learn something everyday!
A few other points that I noticed about the name.
- Jack shares the J and K sounds from Joker
- Jack is the least valuable face card in a deck. There is a playing card motif that runs throughout the movie. Grissom is the King, Alicia is the Queen. Jack eliminates the King and Queen and becomes the Joker.
- Napier is derived from the Spanish word ?naipe? meaning ?playing card?
Dang...I'm delighted by these findings. Seriously. I just wish I had substance to add.
Excellent findings here. Jack Napier is the perfect pre-Joker name, that's for sure. A lot of thematic weight behind it, as you two have displayed.
Because Joseph Kerr was too comic-booky.
My apologies to Alan Moore.
You learn something everyday, indeed :) Great findings
Where did he say this? I remember reading it but now when I need the reference I can't find it.
Quote from: Paul (ral) on Fri, 4 Feb 2011, 19:46
I had always thought that Jack Napier was a nod to Alan Napier from the 60's show.
Infact, according to Sam Hamm, he (Sam) chose the name from "jackanapes".
If you are like myself and don't know what jackanapes means here you go:
A conceited person, marked by contemptuous or cocky boldness or disregard of others.
Someone who is unimportant but cheeky and presumptuous.
Sums up Jack before he became the Joker alright.
FYI, jackanapes is a variant of Jakken-apes, literally: Jack of the ape, nickname of William de la Pole (1396-1450), first Duke of Suffolk, whose badge showed an ape's ball and chain.
Well you learn something everyday!
I love it when the writers go the extra mile and pick a name with deeper meaning for the characters. To me the Joker will always have been Jack Napier in a previous life. Batman 1989 was my first exposure to the Joker's backstory.
Also, being highly intelligent and good with chemicals, one could say, Napier was a "Jack of all trades".
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi271.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj140%2F99alongway%2FSmileyWhistleLge.gif&hash=ebc073d49bf311137fdad5f691e8e88a67c109de)
Quote from: Batman on Thu, 1 Dec 2016, 13:00I love it when the writers go the extra mile and pick a name with deeper meaning for the characters. To me the Joker will always have been Jack Napier in a previous life. Batman 1989 was my first exposure to the Joker's backstory.
Also, being highly intelligent and good with chemicals, one could say, Napier was a "Jack of all trades".
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi271.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj140%2F99alongway%2FSmileyWhistleLge.gif&hash=ebc073d49bf311137fdad5f691e8e88a67c109de)
Agreed with most of your points, especially Burton's propensity for giving ever-so-apt names to his characters, but as for Napier being a 'jack of all trades', I hope you're not suggesting he's a 'master of mediocrity. ;)
I have never actually thought of it before. I saw this film at the drive in when I was like 4. It has been apart of my life so long that I have never thought about the Joker's name. I always just figured that they wanted us to experience Batman first from a thug's point of view and make his origins more mysterious for the audience, which at the time might've included a lot of people who had only a vague sense of Batman ("he's a guy who dresses like a bat!") and some memories of watching the Adam West show. And that left a lot of space at the forefront of the film where maybe they felt we needed to see an origin story for the villain and make it personal and dramatic, therefore giving the Joker a name, having Batman be a figurehead at the Joker's birth, and making the Joker the killer of Batman's parents. I just thought Jack Napier was something that popped in their heads with little to no meaning.