As the thread title implies, there are disgruntled fans who have edited their own version of the movie; incorporating deleted trailer footage and Zimmer's score, as well as deleting the reshot scenes as much as they possibly can. There are three fan cuts circulating online. I've watched one of them, called the Ultimate Fan Cut. While it does the best it can to incorporate most of the deleted scenes into the film and replaces the most contentious scenes fans have complained about, e.g. the opening Superman mobile phone scene, the cut is still too choppy and awkward in some places. After all, it's extremely difficult trying to edit a movie without the proper equipment for sound mixing, or if some deleted scenes lacking in proper context to be a smooth transition. But anyway, let's move on.
Others have edited certain scenes to match what was apparently envisioned by Snyder. For example, the Superman resurrection scene was supposed to show Cyborg getting a vision of the future, which was the entire Batman sequence in BvS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNP2VTJTRWc
There's another edit by somebody where Cyborg gets the visions while interacting with the Mother Boxes in the final battle against Steppenwolf. It's not a great edit, but you can get the idea and a reminder that Batman's visions weren't just nightmares in BvS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeL-CSaOdYI
One edit which I think is an improvement is the rooftop scene where the team discuss with Commissioner Gordon about the Parademon sighting. It includes that great shot of Batman looking down from above as we saw in the trailer, and replacing Elfman's bland score with Junkie XL's Batman suite from BvS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEXrg6y1UDE
There's also re-editing of the entire tunnel scene. Batman's reshot dialogue was removed and replaced with the original 'My Turn' line from the trailer. I reckon it's an improvement too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXG9Oycb_O4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3HSxxutAjo
But the best edit I've seen would have to be Clark and Lois back at the farm, with Zimmer's music replacing Elfman's yet again. This time, the piano motif from MOS plays in the background.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhQxkLoDF0I
Normally, I don't like watching recycled footage from previous movies, but I think repeating key scenes between Clark and Lois's relationship and his heroic sacrifice illustrate how he has fully recovered after being brought back to life, and it contains nice intimate callbacks from Snyder films. The editing of this scene did a far better job than the completed Ultimate Fan Cut, never mind the theatrical version.
I must confess, I never imagined that I would ever prefer Zimmer over Elfman in my lifetime. But his score in the first two DCEU films is leagues above what was delivered in JL. I know it's already been said a few times here on this forum, but looking at these fan edits, it's hard to deny it. It's sad, really.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 13:38
I must confess, I never imagined that I would ever prefer Zimmer over Elfman in my lifetime. But his score in the first two DCEU films is leagues above what was delivered in JL. I know it's already been said a few times here on this forum, but looking at these fan edits, it's hard to deny it. It's sad, really.
Zimmer's work with the DCEU is fantastic. I also like him as a person, and have since begun to appreciate his other work. Elfman somehow lost the fire. I admire that Zimmer created a bunch of new themes and maintained himself in the superhero genre for so long. His audio landscape simply suits the new era of films in a much better way in comparison to Elfman. The torch was passed, and going back to Elfman was a regression.
What annoys me is Elfman came out and admitted the score itself was a last minute job. He even compared the experience to working on an animated film, as he could only work with rough footage of JL. So why even bother wasting time and money on making a new score if it's going to be rushed and not up to par? Unless they couldn't for contractual reasons I'm not aware of, I don't see why they couldn't reuse the score from the last two Snyder films. Besides, if you listen to the official soundtracks of both movies, there was still a fair amount of material that didn't play in the films.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 22 Apr 2018, 13:27What annoys me is Elfman came out and admitted the score itself was a last minute job.
Wasn't that Whedon's call? Have to wonder wtf Whedon was thinking. It broke continuity with the previous movies, the end result was necessarily lackluster and it wasted a lot of time and work by Junkie XL, whose work probably could've been inserted into the movie fairly easily if Snyder's game plan had been adhered to.
Ridiculous...
The most glaring scene that broke continuity to me would have to be Cyborg's body. In BvS, his cameo showed his right forearm, his entire mid-section and legs were amputated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRj7n7CqsX8
But when see Diana investigating him in JL, we see new footage of his entire right arm, torso, pelvis and his thighs intact with the rest of his body. How does this make any sense? I expect this bullsh*t from a stupid X-Men movie, since that franchise has no regard for continuity whatsoever.
(https://i.imgur.com/pcZngax.jpg)
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 22 Apr 2018, 16:11
Wasn't that Whedon's call? Have to wonder wtf Whedon was thinking.
There are a lot of things in the reshot footage that make me ask the same question now that I'm looking back.
- Reshooting scenes with unnecessary, bland quips. Including a dumb joke between Flash and Wonder Woman, which was the same joke Whedon copied from Age of Ultron.
- The rather good Batman opening scene gets spoiled as the burglar suddenly goes out of character, with Batman inexplicably letting him go. Lazy writing.
- Deleting footage of Clark Kent returning to the Fortress of Solitude and meeting Alfred, but opting for that awkward mobile phone scene with the awful CGI mouth. Yes, I understand that scene was supposed to be sentimental, but it's not more so than that other footage.
- Unnecessary removal of lines of dialogue as we saw from the trailers.
I'm aware it sounds like I'm jumping on the bandwagon against what we got, and that's something I don't want to do. But at the same time, when you look at these fan edits putting these scenes together, you can't deny there's a sense of feeling robbed. You look at that particular edit of Clark and Lois back at the Smallville farm, and it elicits a stronger sense of emotion than the film's version did.
I can't tell if Whedon was incompetent with finishing the rest of the film, or he was sabotaging it as much as he could. To suggest the latter would sound outrageous to me, if I didn't know about him never promoting the film on Twitter and allegedly liking a tweet that criticised the villain. In any case, it's hard to deny he was negligent. After his idiotic statement by asking if there was a 'sexier' word for failed, I'm glad he's gone.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 23 Apr 2018, 14:56
I'm aware it sounds like I'm jumping on the bandwagon against what we got, and that's something I don't want to do. But at the same time, when you look at these fan edits putting these scenes together, you can't deny there's a sense of feeling robbed. You look at that particular edit of Clark and Lois back at the Smallville farm, and it elicits a stronger sense of emotion than the film's version did.
I can't tell if Whedon was incompetent with finishing the rest of the film, or he was sabotaging it as much as he could. To suggest the latter would sound outrageous to me, if I didn't know about him never promoting the film on Twitter and allegedly liking a tweet that criticised the villain. In any case, it's hard to deny he was negligent. After his idiotic statement by asking if there was a 'sexier' word for failed, I'm glad he's gone.
No need to walk back anything. You're dead right. I was anticipating JL like crazy and I still feel like I haven't seen it. Because we haven't. We've seen a Frankenstein amalgamation. The only time it felt remotely like a BvS sequel was when Zimmer's Krypton music was playing in the resurrection chamber. But that was a fleeting moment. As for Whedon, he's always been a despicable clown. But now he's basically been radicalized. I have no time for him and I hope he stays away from whatever is left of the DCEU. I've said it before - JL gets the job done but it will remain a scar.
As far as fan edits go, they are tricky. The problem is they rely heavily on the released cut that has already been mixed and edited, meaning you have no coverage, very little options, music/sound effects to edit around, and nowhere near enough of the missing footage. The results are often sloppy, nearly unwatchable, and hardly an approximation of what Snyder's version would have been.
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Tue, 1 May 2018, 03:20
As far as fan edits go, they are tricky. The problem is they rely heavily on the released cut that has already been mixed and edited, meaning you have no coverage, very little options, music/sound effects to edit around, and nowhere near enough of the missing footage. The results are often sloppy, nearly unwatchable, and hardly an approximation of what Snyder's version would have been.
You're right, but some die hard fans still try their hardest anyway. I don't begrudge them for it, far from it; it shows their passion and dedication. I've heard of somebody working on a fan edit titled "Black Suit Edition" for over six months now, and he re-edited the entire sequence of Batman's assault on Steppenwolf's base and getting the Parademons' attention. As you can see in the clip below, he used colour correction to change the scene's red filter to the original darker pallette, as it was seen in the original trailer for the movie, and replaced Elfman's score with music from the warehouse scene in BvS. Unsurprisingly, the scene looks as if it
is from Snyder's real vision.
https://vimeo.com/279738764
Speaking of colour correction, I wondered why Warner Butchers opted for that red pallette in the reshoots, and my guess is, the dickheads must've listened to the criticisms over the supposed lack of colour in MOS and BvS. I remember watching a few YouTube videos by pretentious jackasses who colour corrected scenes from MOS to make it brighter. To be honest, I wasn't such a big fan of the dull and drab colour of Smallville and Metropolis, but Krypton looked lively. But then again, I noticed that tons of people criticised Captain America: Civil War for lacking bright colours, which might explain why the MCU is oversaturated nowadays. It appears to be more of a trend, and not a criticism exclusive to the DCEU.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 22 Apr 2018, 13:27
What annoys me is Elfman came out and admitted the score itself was a last minute job. He even compared the experience to working on an animated film, as he could only work with rough footage of JL. So why even bother wasting time and money on making a new score if it's going to be rushed and not up to par? Unless they couldn't for contractual reasons I'm not aware of, I don't see why they couldn't reuse the score from the last two Snyder films. Besides, if you listen to the official soundtracks of both movies, there was still a fair amount of material that didn't play in the films.
I'm coming back to this.
I'm on the record for not admiring Elfman's JL stuff. That's no secret. And yet, I can't help thinking an already bad situation was made worse by his insane deadline. Had Whedon not reshot so GD much, there's an argument that Elfman's work might've been stronger. If he'd been given a 90% locked picture a month or two earlier which needed only minor reshoots/additions, he might've produced something overall more effective.
We'll never know. But for as much I generally don't enjoy Elfman's stuff, I have to believe even he was capable of something better if he'd just been given the chance.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 27 Jan 2019, 08:26
I've heard of somebody working on a fan edit titled "Black Suit Edition" for over six months now, and he re-edited the entire sequence of Batman's assault on Steppenwolf's base and getting the Parademons' attention. As you can see in the clip below, he used colour correction to change the scene's red filter to the original darker pallette, as it was seen in the original trailer for the movie, and replaced Elfman's score with music from the warehouse scene in BvS. Unsurprisingly, the scene looks as if it is from Snyder's real vision.
https://vimeo.com/279738764
That is such a vast improvement. They did a fantastic job re-editing the sound and switching out the music. Any idea if he's toning down the humor?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 27 Jan 2019, 16:40
I'm on the record for not admiring Elfman's JL stuff.
You're not alone in that department. Compare to the music he composed for the Burton Batman era, his JL work is bland and lacks excitement. I can hum anything from B89 and BR, but for JL, none of it is memorable.
But as you say...
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 27 Jan 2019, 16:40
And yet, I can't help thinking an already bad situation was made worse by his insane deadline. Had Whedon not reshot so GD much, there's an argument that Elfman's work might've been stronger. If he'd been given a 90% locked picture a month or two earlier which needed only minor reshoots/additions, he might've produced something overall more effective.
We'll never know. But for as much I generally don't enjoy Elfman's stuff, I have to believe even he was capable of something better if he'd just been given the chance.
...this is definitely possible. My only rebuttal, though, is Elfman could've turned down the job to score the movie if the deadline was unreasonable. But if there's any consolation, the reshoots may done a lot of damage to Whedon's reputation. He oversaw somebody's else work, and instead he got criticised, at least by the fans, for his lack of originality, cliche jokes and a film with subpar special effects. Sure, maybe he wasn't given much to work with either. But given his unprofessional conduct when the film was released and his exit from the Batgirl project, I have no sympathy for him. Ever since the first Avengers movie, he seemed to have run out of ideas.
Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Sun, 27 Jan 2019, 21:51
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 27 Jan 2019, 08:26
I've heard of somebody working on a fan edit titled "Black Suit Edition" for over six months now, and he re-edited the entire sequence of Batman's assault on Steppenwolf's base and getting the Parademons' attention. As you can see in the clip below, he used colour correction to change the scene's red filter to the original darker pallette, as it was seen in the original trailer for the movie, and replaced Elfman's score with music from the warehouse scene in BvS. Unsurprisingly, the scene looks as if it is from Snyder's real vision.
https://vimeo.com/279738764
That is such a vast improvement. They did a fantastic job re-editing the sound and switching out the music. Any idea if he's toning down the humor?
I suspect toning down the humour will be one of the goals. He released a trailer for his edit on YouTube to give people an idea of what to expect.
https://youtu.be/vrzOWBIVsD8
This is what I noticed:
- The rest of the fan cut will resemble as close to the original trailer as much as possible, in terms of colour pallette.
- Superman's costume has turned into the black suit, which was seen in the deleted scene of Clark Kent returning to the Fortress of Solitude.
- The Knightmare scene from BvS will be acknowledged and form an integral part of the plot.
- It appears it will recycle some scenes from MOS and BvS to create new scenes.
But as you said before, it's going to be tricky assembling this fan cut together. Without having complete access to the deleted scenes, e.g. Victor Stone's backstory, and still stuck with using the redesign of Steppenwolf's appearance instead of the monster from the BvS Ultimate Edition, I don't think it will turn out that great, despite the editor's great intentions. But I still wish him good luck, and I'll be eager to see how it turns out.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 27 Jan 2019, 16:40
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 22 Apr 2018, 13:27
What annoys me is Elfman came out and admitted the score itself was a last minute job. He even compared the experience to working on an animated film, as he could only work with rough footage of JL. So why even bother wasting time and money on making a new score if it's going to be rushed and not up to par? Unless they couldn't for contractual reasons I'm not aware of, I don't see why they couldn't reuse the score from the last two Snyder films. Besides, if you listen to the official soundtracks of both movies, there was still a fair amount of material that didn't play in the films.
I'm coming back to this.
I'm on the record for not admiring Elfman's JL stuff. That's no secret. And yet, I can't help thinking an already bad situation was made worse by his insane deadline. Had Whedon not reshot so GD much, there's an argument that Elfman's work might've been stronger. If he'd been given a 90% locked picture a month or two earlier which needed only minor reshoots/additions, he might've produced something overall more effective.
We'll never know. But for as much I generally don't enjoy Elfman's stuff, I have to believe even he was capable of something better if he'd just been given the chance.
To me this a moot point. Elfman was brought in for a specific reason - to match Whedon's 'course correction' and the lighter tone. His job was to scrap Junkie XL's sound. And for that reason I can't get on board with it. The Zimmer Superman theme is booted. The Junkie XL Batman theme is booted. The Dawn of Justice soundtrack is infinitely superior.
I've been hearing some rumours Warner is considering broadcasting an extended cut of the theatrical version (which is derisively dubbed "Josstice League" by Snyder die-hards) on HBO. That would be pretty disrespectful to the fan community after the online video campaign pleaded for the real version of the movie to see the light of day. But then again, that's quite typical of this corporation, given the revelations that have come out surrounding the movie over the past year and a half.
In the meantime, Chris Dawson - the fan behind the Black Suit Edition I mentioned earlier - has launched a new trailer for his cut, which he aims to complete editing by the 30th of August this year.
https://youtu.be/EdYWyQUE9oE
Now that I've watched these two fan cut trailers, Dawson has put in a lot of effort in using his video editing skills to superimpose and create brand new scenes from existing material. The one that struck me the most from the first trailer was his recreation of the deleted scene of Clark Kent - where he returns to the Fortress of Solitude and walks past the black suit on display, before opting his usual blue and red costume again. In Dawson's cut, he has digitally replaced the suit in the display pod with the classic red underpants suit, before Clark adopts the titular costume. That's a really clever idea, and it's even more impressive how he pulled it off.
(https://i.imgur.com/kTiN1S1.jpg)
There are a couple of scenes in the second trailer that resemble some ideas from Zack Snyder's storyboards. The most significant reveal is the introduction of Darkseid; using footage from the Injustice 2 video game, and how the Mother Boxes unleashes Armageddon upon the entire planet. This is what Snyder had in mind in the storyboard below, by tying together this sequence with the Knightmare scene from BvS. As you can see, the last panel of the storyboard resembles the moment where Batman looks at the ruined landscape during Snyder's second DCEU film.
(https://i.imgur.com/382ZmA6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/y1qZ6I4.jpg)
Speaking of Darkseid, did anybody else notice his Omega Beams were chasing after the Flash on the three minute mark? I also like the juxtaposition of Alfred's speech of how powerlessness makes good men cruel in BvS, and how Dawson has Darkseid saying power can make great men "Gods".
But perhaps the biggest surprise for me is this footage of Batman using the Parademons' cannon against them. This sequence was released as concept art on the Internet a year ago. Somehow, Dawson has either recreated it, or used unreleased footage I'm not aware of.
(https://i.imgur.com/HycYZDJ.jpg)
Honestly, although this is a fan edit, this is the only DC movie I'm looking forward to. Yes it has its limitations with recycling footage from previous movies, but I'm eager to watch this fan's efforts to see how it plays out. I only hope Warner Butchers doesn't do something dirty and hit him with a copyright strike. They shouldn't, it's not like he's charging people to watch his cut. But strange things have happened, and they've made some terrible decisions in the last couple of years. Well, if they don't want people to appropriate their content, they can always...you know, release the Snyder cut, since the vast majority is apparently finished.
By the way, I like how this trailer's final shot of the JL team pays homage to the animated series.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7EAzoyWsAEFY_e.jpg)
(https://fanfest.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Justice-League-Animated-Series.jpg)
I found this very good fan edit of what the beginning of JL might've looked like if it was similar to the opening credits of BvS.
https://youtu.be/16hrROk-Lyw
Meanwhile, Jerry Ordway gave a very positive response to that edit and threw his support for the Snyder cut. And what do you know, that degenerate idiot Jett makes himself unwelcome by sharing this condescending response.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-qvOG_X4AIykSx.jpg:large)
This lead to Jay Oliva throwing shade at him.
Quote from: Jay Oliva
I'm revoking your Batman card Jett. You really aren't a Batman fan if you post crap tweets like this. Sorry.
Quote
Seriously what is wrong with you? Is everything alright? It seems you can't move on from a film you clearly did not like. You are like that ex bf who keeps talking crap about his ex years later after you've found out she's got a new BF.
https://twitter.com/jayoliva1/status/1146915750218629121
Oliva becomes a little diplomatic when Jett's apologist supporters start defending him, but still maintains his stance.
Quote
Seriously people taking my "revoking your Batman card" seriously is way too funny. Here's my thoughts on the whole situation Jett. You have a platform of Batmanonfilm to celebrate Batman in the mediums outside of comics. Clearly you are a Batman fan - but you are a selective Batman fan. Nothing wrong with that. But if you are running a website called Batmanonfilm where you trash certain versions of Batman on film then don't be surprised if someone calls you out on it.
Listen, I get it. BatmanonFilm is a business and it needs clicks or whatever internet currency it needs to keep your website and podcast going. I like you personally Jett and thank you for supporting the work I've done. But that doesn't give you a pass when you post this.
@JerryOrdway was supporting something you clearly don't like so you decided to come in and crap on his tweet. That's not cool.
Jerry is a creative and should be supported whether you like it or not. My tweet saying to you to move on was just that. I'm not trying to change your mind about the work Zack and I did. But to jump onto other people for supporting it is again not cool.
I used to follow you Jett and I appreciated all the great things you said about my animated films. I still am grateful. But you've lost my support of your website a long time ago when you stopped celebrating Batman and instead crapped on versions you didn't like.
That's why I've personally decided to never give interviews or recommendations of your site. So if you want to do a podcast "like men" as you put it. Then I'd do one with you on @SherazFarooqi_ 's podcast.
https://twitter.com/jayoliva1/status/1146956067085012992
But despite Oliva's eloquent tweets, the shamelessly self-described "Chris Nolan butt-kisser" doubles down on his stupidity. Even after he was told "Let's not forget this whole thread started because you felt compelled to crap on @JerryOrdway's tweet. The dude is a comic legend! So yah you don't get a pass for doing that. Especially since all Jerry did was say he would like to see something you have a vendetta against".
It amuses me to no end how Jett could hate JL so much despite the true version that was already compromised is locked away from the public, yet he loves a series of Batman movies where the idiotic excuse for a hero does incompetent things for the sake of plot contrivance. I bet you any money he's the kind of fool who gets defensive about the movies he loves so much that all he'll ever do is recite "he's a watchful protector, silent guardian, dark knight" over and over again to block out the criticism.
Pfft, whatever. Long story short, Jerry Ordway and Jay Oliva are both awesome, and Jett is a loser.
Jett has a vastly overblown sense of his own importance. And influence. The reality is that Syncopy Films used him as FREE MARKETING for their Batman movies. Emma Thomas sent him approved leaks to post on his third rate site. In exchange, he got the occasional photo op with Chris Nolan. He somehow let that go to his head and now thinks he speaks for all fans everywhere.
When it comes to people with J.O. as their initials, Jay Oliva and Jerry Ordway have a TON of cred with me. If they're saying (or implying) that Jett is a fool, well, their opinions carry a lot of weight. Who am I to argue with them?
Guys, I appreciate you commentating on the twitter exchange, but please keep personal insults, etc about other web sites and their staff to a zero (as per site rules).
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 5 Jul 2019, 21:16
When it comes to people with J.O. as their initials, Jay Oliva and Jerry Ordway have a TON of cred with me. If they're saying (or implying) that Jett is a fool, well, their opinions carry a lot of weight. Who am I to argue with them?
I didn't notice the coincidence of their initials, good pick up! :D
As for Jett, I'll respect Paul's request. But I'll say this, it's one thing if forum posters like me and you broadcast our opinions to the world. But unlike Jett, at least we're not that egocentric enough to believe we speak on behalf of a large group of people. You'd think the overwhelming negative feedback by creatives and fans would make him reconsider his conduct online and worry about the risk of losing traffic to his website, but it appears not to be the case. Oh well, it's his loss.
Meanwhile, the official #ReleaseTheSnyderCut Twitter page thanked Ordway for his support, and he replied with this tweet:
Quote
I've always supported the idea, since it was revealed Snyder had a rough cut with a score. Their (Warner's) cobbled together version didn't work, so what is there to lose, now that the execs in charge have changed? AT&T wants to make money, so let @WarnerArchive release it!
https://twitter.com/JerryOrdway/status/1146262024709689345
I appreciate the sentiment. But if this tweet from a fan is anything to go by, and one which Oliva himself highlighted as the reason why Warner Butchers are hesitant to release the Snyder cut, then yet again it goes to show how despicable the studio is.
Quote
I'll give you credit on that point. No it doesn't make sense. But reason is not because of the existence of the Cut, it is because if they release an alternate version, it will expose how bad the execs screwed up JL and how they cost the studio millions. This is an ego problem.
https://twitter.com/CarlosdaPro/status/1146504057684541441
All I can say is, don't give up the fight.
Chris Dawson has released this newly edited scene from his Black Suit Edition - reimagining the scene where Cyborg comes out of hiding before meeting the Batman, Wonder Woman and Flash. He has incorporated deleted scenes such as the football game flashback, and edited Cyborg flying to resemble Superman's first time flying in MOS. It's very impressive.
https://youtu.be/AGksjU2VfvU