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The Ice Princess was too rarely featured to be really annoying. Knox I did find annoying, not *real* bad in himself but still annoying and especially too featured and focused on.

Personally I liked Affleck's acting (Pearl Harbor aside) in his movies to about 2004/2006, since then he's come off as too egotistical for me to like (including or especially in that clip, sarcastically responding "You're the expert" is a very annoying, weak response to take in a discussion), I used to completely separate actors' personal lives and screen presences but that division has been declining.

I think Keaton and Bale are both pretty definitive, between them basically the most definitive. New actors, and directors, have big boots to fill.

I'm a bit less fond of Keaton personally since he did Birdman and the idea of bringing to do a Batman Beyond wouldn't make sense since, like it or not, Burton and BB have entirely different perspectives on killing, BB largely based on that he's unwilling to continue because he's unwilling to use lethal weapons.

Good find, Fish! Nice work.

Still, I'm a bit done with these people apologizing for the movie. They made a movie and they wanted it to entertain people. I think both Schumacher films have aged amazingly well (esp considering how comic book films are going these days, pre-COVID) and I'm able to put B&R in its place as a fun action romp starring a reasonably happy Batman who is reasonably well-adjusted.

The movie is only "bad" if the viewer thinks something like TDK is the only valid approach to the character. I suppose that's valid but the cast and crew still have nothing to apologize for.

I think the movie outright made fun of the characters too often, particularly Bane barely speaking and saying "Monkey work", most of Freeze's dialogue and the Bat-credit card and butt shots.

Agreed that Poison Ivy was a fine adaptation and that Arkham was well done.

Ivy was made more sympathetic and maybe even reasonable, more of an anti-hero?

How different may the film have been like that? And if she didn't have a poison kiss, or could she have been more sympathetic and reasonable even having it?

I think it implies that this universe's Catwoman is in prison or Arkham. Because Chase says it in a playful tone, not a like a criticism (which would be the case if she was trying to say You liked her so much you never caught her) and the comment would also feel a lot harsher if Catwoman was dead or presumed dead.

What if Rene Auberjonois, seen very briefly as Arkham's Dr. Burton in BF, had actually played Jonathan Crane/the Scarecrow in a Schumacher film? Instead of one of the villains in BF or B&R or in a fifth film?

The studio and Schumacher might have preferred a big-name star as a villain but I think Auberjonois could have played Scarecrow well, in either a somewhat goofy or more dark version. Scarecrow does seem fitting for a late-teen/early adult Robin, let alone if a fifth film did have Dick Grayson in college.

I think The Dark Knight does qualify as not-toyetic, at least the least so that can be made, while there were some characters (not really that many or colorful) that you could make toys of, the Joker and Two-Face would be pretty not-appealing for kids, there wasn't that much traditional action, Batman a pretty non-traditional type of hero, the tone was really not mainly trying to appeal to, excite or be directed to kids.

I didn't like that the writers chose to portray old Bruce Wayne as alone, a recluse, as basically having failed in his crimefighting and business and personal life, with all of his old partners pretty much gone and not on good terms with him. That felt pretty sour.

I think the show could have depicted conditions in Gotham as having gotten worse, enough to be dramatic, without having that Bruce pretty much gave up and failed so much. And it could have been better if he was still with, married to Barbara (still the commissioner) or at least on good terms with her.

I think the BTAS episode "Trial" gives the best answer.

I used to believe Batman was responsible for you people but now I see nearly everyone here would have ended up exactly the same, Batman or not. Oh, the gimmicks might be different, but you'd all be out there in some form or another bringing misery to Gotham. The truth is, you created him.

I think that was meant to be a plausible but questionable claim, especially as the attorney in defending Batman was also trying to save herself. And the episode kind of concludes that whether he did create them or not he is needed to deal with them.