This is for all things spoilers. With the movie coming out soon, I know there's spoiler to be had, along with this thread to be free to those who have seen the movie around the release date. No need to white out your texts, just let it rip. The title is a clear indicator.
I'll be staying out of this thread until I've seen the movie, but I thought it would be nice to have this. I'll be here once the movie comes out, so I can talk freely without worrying about spoiling anything for anybody else.
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 24 Jan 2022, 17:12
I'll be staying out of this thread until I've seen the movie, but I thought it would be nice to have this. I'll be here once the movie comes out, so I can talk freely without worrying about spoiling anything for anybody else.
Good idea. I'm ready to avoid new footage and details now, too. I'm all for promotion but I think they need to pull back on revealing too much in the TV spots. But what they're showing does look special. Not long to go...
The Joker was an obvious callback, but did you notice Hush and the venom(Bane)?
Before anyone reads on, a reminder this post is full of SPOILERS in the SPOILER THREAD.
I caught the Hush reference. As for the other, it could be adrenaline or venom. I think that's a question for Matt Reeves. On another point, my initial impression was the woman who answers the phone inside Wayne Tower, Dory played by Sandra Dickinson, was a nod to Harriet from the 1966 TV show.
Some similarities between Batman and The Riddler I picked up on:
Both orphans
Spy on people
Journal (Bruce with a notepad, Edward a webcam)
Attack from the shadows
Want to clean up the city
Nashton thought Batman would understand his crusade, just as Carrey's Nygma thought Kilmer would understand. He was inspired by Batman's darkness, but misread him. Along with all of Riddler's followers. They saw him as vengeance without any nuance, which Batman now knows he must work on. Rescuing the people from the floodwaters is a step towards being thought of more as a hero, and he's already the only Batman other than Clooney to have a clean record with killing. Like other incarnations, we see the effect Batman has on other people in terms of escalation.
We have detective work and mystery that builds to a payoff, and that's the flooding sequence. The literal washing away of the city's filth as Nashton views it as irredeemable. I believe the barriers he destroys were also funded by the Renewal project, which he has disdain for. In his mind they shouldn't even be there. The movie flows together so well that this segment felt like a natural evolution. I also like that this universe has Arkham and the villains so far aren't being killed off. Like the comics they're exisiting in perpetuity.
I like that Riddler gets captured because he accepts that's a certainty after he shoots Falcone. The film doesn't repeat the "he planned to be caught" trope of the Nolan era and see Nashton mount a daring escape from custody. He simply left behind clues and video for investigators to find, so the game can continue. I appreciated that detail. It also allows the Riddler to become a martyr figure in his own right as his followers are motivated to complete his mission in his abscence. Even though he's killing people, the film doesn't forget The Riddler's biggest weapon is his mind.
The letter bomb scene with Alfred made me nervous. Before seeing the movie I long thought there was a chance he could die, so when this sequence started I was expecting the worst. It wouldn't have been out of character for this universe to isolate Bruce even more. But I was thankful to see him pull through. I'm perfectly okay with how little Alfred we received here. We didn't see him because Bruce didn't - he was too busy out on the street. I'd like to see them interact a little more in the sequels though, and Bruce to start engaging with his company as Alfred wants.
The revelation about Thomas Wayne is a palatable balance. Thomas ordered intimidation (still not acceptable) but not murder. Falcone was in the blackmail business. That works for me. This also comments on Bruce's own darkness and the balance he must strike in his war on crime. This Bruce can't afford to go over the edge and have life be taken, because like most other incarnations, it's a line he believes once crossed tarnishes his soul. Martha having mental health issues gives an element of explanation behind Bruce's behavior. It goes to what the Telltale games did - children have romantic visions of their parents while the truth can be somewhat different.
The opening sequence of the Mayor inside his apartment playing with his son evokes the start of B89 in the way we could very well be watching Bruce and his family interacting before an untimely incident. I like how they have Bruce living in a skyscraper too, with the basement terminal area substituting the traditional cave. It really sets this world apart from the rest. I'd like the sequels to explore this environement further. It makes me question how a vehicles like planes, helicopters or boats could be utilized from here though. Perhaps the train tunnels lead to different areas of the city where they are securely stored and then launched. That would be a nice touch.
I dig the low key ending to the movie. Batman goes his way, Selina goes hers. She drives away first, clearly more eager to move on. The closeup of Batman as he watches her disappear into the rear view mirror, before his eyes look forward intently on the road in front of him is subtle but powerful. It says a lot about the Batman/Catwoman relationship and who Batman is. He has emotions but suppresses them. He's wedded to his city and the fight goes on.
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 4 Mar 2022, 05:12
The Joker was an obvious callback, but did you notice Hush and the venom(Bane)?
I spotted the Hush reference, but I assumed the substance Batman injected himself with was some kind of adrenaline boost rather than Venom.
I was surprised by the Joker cameo. I heard someone in one of the rows behind me saying "There are too many Jokers now." I'm inclined to agree. In the last few years there have been two different versions of the Joker in the Gotham TV show, the Jared Leto Joker, the Joaquin Phoenix Joker, the Barry Keoghan Joker, a new version of the Joker in the Batwoman series, and now the possibility of the Jack Napier Joker getting resurrected in some form. And that's to say nothing of all the animated Jokers.
If it were up to me, I'd ban the Joker from appearing in any more live action TV shows for the foreseeable future and I'd retire the Leto Joker permanently. I liked Phoenix's Joker film, but I'm still not sold on the idea of a sequel. I think it would be better to leave that as a standalone movie. I'd keep the Joker out of any future DCEU films,
unless it's the Napier Joker in Batman Beyond. That way the only live action Joker over the next few years would be Keoghan's version, if indeed Reeves intends for him to return. Though I wouldn't mind if he didn't.
I trust Reeves to do something interesting with the Joker if he does decide to use him, but I'd rather he avoid villains that Nolan used unless there's a good chance he'll present a superior version of them. I didn't mind Reeves using Catwoman, since I thought his take on the character was better than Nolan's. Nolan's Carmine Falcone was acceptable as a generic mob boss, but Reeves' Carmine felt closer to the comic book version thanks to the Selina Kyle connection. Nolan never used Penguin or Riddler, but if he had done I imagine he would have gone in a similar direction as Reeves did.
But when it comes to the Joker I'm sceptical of anyone topping, or even matching, Ledger and Phoenix. It might be better to reserve the Reevesverse Joker as a minor background player for now, then possibly use him as the main villain in the trilogy's final film. I also don't particularly want to see Reeves tackle Bane, as I thought Nolan did a pretty decent (but not definitive) job with him. The Nolanverse Ra's al Ghul wouldn't be too hard to top, but if we're going to have a shadowy organisation feature prominently in Reeves' trilogy then I'd rather it be the Court of Owls than the League of Assassins. I'd be cool with him presenting a new take on Scarecrow though, as I was never a huge fan of Murphy's version. Two-Face... I'm not sure about. I like Eckhart's version, but I wouldn't object to Reeves presenting a more gangster interpretation of Dent. Now that Gil Colson's dead, there's going to be a vacancy in the DA's office. It might be interesting to have Dent show up in the sequel but not become Two-Face. Just have him serve as an ally for Batman and Gordon. I'd be down with that.
But in general, I'd prefer Reeves to present his own take on comic villains that Nolan didn't use. He did such a great job with Penguin and especially Riddler, and I'd love to see him reinvent other classic rogues in a similar way. Hush would be an obvious pick and has already been teased (it can't be a coincidence that the word 'Hush' flashed on screen while the Riddler was talking about a man named Elliot). Black Mask would also fit in well with the Reevesverse. The DCEU version from Birds of Prey was dreadful, so the sooner we get a new version to rinse away the bad taste of that movie the better. Other villains that might work well in the Reevesverse: Mad Hatter, Deadshot, Hugo Strange, Doctor Hurt and the Black Glove, Professor Pyg, the Barton Mathis Dollmaker, Ratcatcher, Amygdala, the Crime Doctor, Rupert Thorne, Owlman, Lady Shiva, Deacon Blackfire, Tony Zucco, the Mutant gang, the Judson Caspian Reaper, Lew Moxon and the Holiday Killer. Perhaps even some more fantastical foes like Clayface, Man-Bat and Mister Freeze. But my top pick right now would be the Court of Owls.
The one villain I absolutely positively do
not want to appear is Harley Quinn. I've grown to hate that character in recent years, and her irritating brand of Deadpool-wannabe humour would be a poor fit for the serious tone of Reeves' films.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sat, 5 Mar 2022, 16:42
However, to go off of your final point this movie is billing itself as a murder mystery detective story, but I didn't really think that Batman was key in solving anything. It's the same problem I have with Mask of the Phantasm where you could remove Batman from this story and Riddlers plan would still play out in the same way.
Batman solves the riddles left on the bodies, but a few of the answers are simple statements like "he lies still". Much like a later message of "see you in hell" or even "what's black and blue and dead all over? You." The latter of which has a meaning but is already a done deal that cannot be stopped.
Batman solves two riddles for the collar bomb, but had to rely on the DA to answer the third. He wouldn't do it. The fixation on the Penguin is what blinds them to Falcone, which does allow to show who the Penguin is as a character. Based on Penguin's comments, Batman works out the URL riddle and finds the website. He discovers the Orphanage location, and that Bruce Wayne is the next target.
The way I see things, the Riddler doesn't want his plan to be stopped, he simply wants to expose corruption and kill those responsible. He didn't leave much wiggle room, if any. Riddler is ahead of the game as he is running it, but I don't think Batman is made to look useless mentally.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 5 Mar 2022, 22:35
I was surprised by the Joker cameo. I heard someone in one of the rows behind me saying "There are too many Jokers now." I'm inclined to agree. In the last few years there have been two different versions of the Joker in the Gotham TV show, the Jared Leto Joker, the Joaquin Phoenix Joker, the Barry Keoghan Joker, a new version of the Joker in the Batwoman series, and now the possibility of the Jack Napier Joker getting resurrected in some form. And that's to say nothing of all the animated Jokers.
If it were up to me, I'd ban the Joker from appearing in any more live action TV shows for the foreseeable future and I'd retire the Leto Joker permanently. I liked Phoenix's Joker film, but I'm still not sold on the idea of a sequel. I think it would be better to leave that as a standalone movie. I'd keep the Joker out of any future DCEU films, unless it's the Napier Joker in Batman Beyond. That way the only live action Joker over the next few years would be Keoghan's version, if indeed Reeves intends for him to return. Though I wouldn't mind if he didn't.
I trust Reeves to do something interesting with the Joker if he does decide to use him, but I'd rather he avoid villains that Nolan used unless there's a good chance he'll present a superior version of them. I didn't mind Reeves using Catwoman, since I thought his take on the character was better than Nolan's. Nolan's Carmine Falcone was acceptable as a generic mob boss, but Reeves' Carmine felt closer to the comic book version thanks to the Selina Kyle connection. Nolan never used Penguin or Riddler, but if he had done I imagine he would have gone in a similar direction as Reeves did.
Reeves said he's not sure if he'll even use The Joker in his other films - the scene is there to solidify Selina's line about Gotham getting worse in the future. To say there will always be a villain ready to emerge at some point down the line with their own agenda. Reeves said this version didn't fall into acid or cut a smile, he was born with a smile deformation, and he hasn't mentally snapped all the way just yet. I'm cool with that - and would like to see the Court of Owls or even Mr Freeze as has been bandied about.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 6 Mar 2022, 00:03
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sat, 5 Mar 2022, 16:42
However, to go off of your final point this movie is billing itself as a murder mystery detective story, but I didn't really think that Batman was key in solving anything. It's the same problem I have with Mask of the Phantasm where you could remove Batman from this story and Riddlers plan would still play out in the same way.
Batman solves the riddles left on the bodies, but a few of the answers are simple statements like "he lies still". Much like a later message of "see you in hell" or even "what's black and blue and dead all over? You." The latter of which has a meaning but is already a done deal that cannot be stopped.
Batman solves two riddles for the collar bomb, but had to rely on the DA to answer the third. He wouldn't do it. The fixation on the Penguin is what blinds them to Falcone, which does allow to show who the Penguin is as a character. Based on Penguin's comments, Batman works out the URL riddle and finds the website. He discovers the Orphanage location, and that Bruce Wayne is the next target.
The way I see things, the Riddler doesn't want his plan to be stopped, he simply wants to expose corruption and kill those responsible. He didn't leave much wiggle room, if any. Riddler is ahead of the game as he is running it, but I don't think Batman is made to look useless mentally.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 5 Mar 2022, 22:35
I was surprised by the Joker cameo. I heard someone in one of the rows behind me saying "There are too many Jokers now." I'm inclined to agree. In the last few years there have been two different versions of the Joker in the Gotham TV show, the Jared Leto Joker, the Joaquin Phoenix Joker, the Barry Keoghan Joker, a new version of the Joker in the Batwoman series, and now the possibility of the Jack Napier Joker getting resurrected in some form. And that's to say nothing of all the animated Jokers.
If it were up to me, I'd ban the Joker from appearing in any more live action TV shows for the foreseeable future and I'd retire the Leto Joker permanently. I liked Phoenix's Joker film, but I'm still not sold on the idea of a sequel. I think it would be better to leave that as a standalone movie. I'd keep the Joker out of any future DCEU films, unless it's the Napier Joker in Batman Beyond. That way the only live action Joker over the next few years would be Keoghan's version, if indeed Reeves intends for him to return. Though I wouldn't mind if he didn't.
I trust Reeves to do something interesting with the Joker if he does decide to use him, but I'd rather he avoid villains that Nolan used unless there's a good chance he'll present a superior version of them. I didn't mind Reeves using Catwoman, since I thought his take on the character was better than Nolan's. Nolan's Carmine Falcone was acceptable as a generic mob boss, but Reeves' Carmine felt closer to the comic book version thanks to the Selina Kyle connection. Nolan never used Penguin or Riddler, but if he had done I imagine he would have gone in a similar direction as Reeves did.
Reeves said he's not sure if he'll even use The Joker in his other films - the scene is there to solidify Selina's line about Gotham getting worse in the future. To say there will always be a villain ready to emerge at some point down the line with their own agenda. Reeves said this version didn't fall into acid or cut a smile, he was born with a smile deformation, and he hasn't mentally snapped all the way just yet. I'm cool with that - and would like to see the Court of Owls or even Mr Freeze as has been bandied about.
Yeah I was waiting for Batman to get ahead of Riddler at some point, but it seems to be more about just letting his plan come to its eventual conclusion. Also, I was let down that Batman himself didn't figure out what happened with the reporter. The investigative aspect of this film was one of my chief complaints. I really enjoyed it overall though.
Bludhaven, the possible Venom, Hush, that stuff was like candy for me.
Technically, gushing about the score isn't a spoiler. But still, it seemed better for me to post about it here. I haven't listened to Giacchino's score in isolation from the film. But in the context of the film, I'd say Giacchino's work is competitive with Elfman as the best Batman music anybody has ever made. High praise indeed. I particularly love the new Batman theme and I hope it is reprised in any possible sequels.
As to sequels... well, it may be out of scope for this thread. But there are many directions suggested just by this first movie. The Joker, Bane, the Penguin (as a primary baddie), Hush or a return engagement with the Riddler are all possibilities here.
Speaking of, I rather liked the ambiguous monologue from the end of the movie. "There's more *I* can do". That could mean a reevaluation of his Batman activities. Or it could also mean a reevaluation of Bruce as a public identity. Charity, philanthropy, etc. Either (or both) are fertile ground for a sequel.
I understand the argument that the movie went on about twenty minutes too long, that incarcerating the Riddler is the natural end of the story. And honestly, for all I know, that may even be true. But the jailing of the Riddler is not the end of Bruce's character arc in the movie. So, on that basis, the film needed Batman to rescue the people in order for him to have his epiphany later on. So, I think the criticisms about the movie going on too long are apt, but flawed. That line of thinking is just plain wrongheaded.
Finally, I reiterate my preference that the Reevesverse be its own thing, independent of anything else related to the DCEU or even other DC characters. Reeves has created a rich tapestry for Batman to exist within and I don't want non-Batman characters to detract from whatever Reeves is going for. He needs and deserves this independence.
That's what I've got for now.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 6 Mar 2022, 02:38
That's what I've got for now.
Oh, something else.
One thing that made me nervous about the trailers was an inexperienced Batman palling around with GCPD. Privately, I thought to myself "There's no way it would be that easy. SOMEBODY wouldn't appreciate a civilian/vigilante having the run of a crime scene. And they'd make no secret of that."
Well, the movie tackled that directly and repeatedly. Batman's inclusion was controversial to a lot of cops at first. But by the end of the movie, it's obvious that they have started accepting him. And that works for me. In fact, of everything in the movie, Batman's evolving relationship with GCPD is one of the more successful elements, ultimately. So, obviously my initial reluctance was misplaced.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 6 Mar 2022, 05:34
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 6 Mar 2022, 02:38
That's what I've got for now.
Oh, something else.
One thing that made me nervous about the trailers was an inexperienced Batman palling around with GCPD. Privately, I thought to myself "There's no way it would be that easy. SOMEBODY wouldn't appreciate a civilian/vigilante having the run of a crime scene. And they'd make no secret of that."
Well, the movie tackled that directly and repeatedly. Batman's inclusion was controversial to a lot of cops at first. But by the end of the movie, it's obvious that they have started accepting him. And that works for me. In fact, of everything in the movie, Batman's evolving relationship with GCPD is one of the more successful elements, ultimately. So, obviously my initial reluctance was misplaced.
If you think the movie is good now, wait until you see it a couple more times. It's one of the best Batman stories ever made. Jeffrey Wright is a great Gordon and the dynamic he has with Batman is heartwarming. He says Batman is the only one he trusts. Towards the end when Batman is taking on the Riddler goons, Gordon wants to get up there and assist. They're like best friends, and you really feel that Gordon can see beyond Batman's darkness to appreciate his upstanding morals. If he doesn't kill he won't be forced to turn him in. But he knows it wouldn't come to that. Very B66/BTAS in vibe. Nailing Batman's presence amongst Police at crime scenes opens up his world considerably.
Returning to something I wrote in the 'no spoilers' thread, Dano's Riddler reminded me a lot of the Gemini Killer from William Peter Blatty's The Exorcist III (1990). This is hardly surprising, since both characters are based on the real life Zodiac Killer. But the scene where the similarities really hit home for me was the Arkham conversation between Batman and Nashton. I imagine most people will probably compare this to the interrogation scene in The Dark Knight, but it's also strongly reminiscent of the discussions between the Gemini (Brad Dourif) and Inspector Kinderman (George C. Scott) in Blatty's film. Both scenes take place in a psychiatric hospital, and in both movies the psychopathic serial killer boasts about his crimes and taunts the detective until he provokes a physical reaction from him. Both feature a moment where the killer suddenly adopts a falsetto to sing in Latin. The Gemini sings 'Gloria' while Riddler sings 'Ave Maria'. The dark murky cinematography and use of low-key lighting are also similar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYKctJdbpG4
Of course I also saw the influence of David Fincher's Seven (1995) and Zodiac (2007), as well as James Wan's Saw (2004), but I thought it was worth adding The Exorcist III to the list of possible cinematic influences.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 6 Mar 2022, 19:17
Returning to something I wrote in the 'no spoilers' thread, Dano's Riddler reminded me a lot of the Gemini Killer from William Peter Blatty's The Exorcist III (1990). This is hardly surprising, since both characters are based on the real life Zodiac Killer. But the scene where the similarities really hit home for me was the Arkham conversation between Batman and Nashton. I imagine most people will probably compare this to the interrogation scene in The Dark Knight, but it's also strongly reminiscent of the discussions between the Gemini (Brad Dourif) and Inspector Kinderman (George C. Scott) in Blatty's film. Both scenes take place in a psychiatric hospital, and in both movies the psychopathic serial killer boasts about his crimes and taunts the detective until he provokes a physical reaction from him. Both feature a moment where the killer suddenly adopts a falsetto to sing in Latin. The Gemini sings 'Gloria' while Riddler sings 'Ave Maria'. The dark murky cinematography and use of low-key lighting are also similar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYKctJdbpG4
Of course I also saw the influence of David Fincher's Seven (1995) and Zodiac (2007), as well as James Wan's Saw (2004), but I thought it was worth adding The Exorcist III to the list of possible cinematic influences.
I love the Gemini scene in that movie. Definitely a highlight of the film for me. Brad Douriff's performance in that scene is just incredible and he leaves a big impression even though he's only in one scene. However, with The Batman the thing that keeps me from loving it in the same way is Dano's performance. His screaming and singing felt comical and over the top in a way that didn't fit the film. Looking back on Douriff's performance he screams and gets manic in that scene as well, but to me it fits. Also, Douriff knows how to convey pent up rage and frustration in a way that feels threatening. I'm starting to think Dano was just miscast.
Dano's performance felt consistent with what these types of people are like. They don't have any real friends, lack social skills, detest society and only value likeminded individuals. The way someone like Edward expresses frustration is going to be different to the likes of Bane. He's the nerd who sat alone and was more likely to be a school shooter. Riddler's world view of Batman came crashing down during the interrogation, changing from imagined ally to instant foe. Nashton performed in the orphanage choir, and belting that tune out is his equivalent of "talk to the hand". I still saw the elitist snob in Dano's smirk, which is a trait I associate the most with the Riddler.
While not a spoiler, I was flipping through some comics and this internal monologue from Detective Comics 613 seems to captures the mood of Battinson for the majority of the film: "The night is for me. The Batman doesn't need other people - doesn't need company, or laughter, or words. The Batman needs no kiss on the cheek. For him, the night is enough. The wind in the neon city - the sting of the chill air - the purity of one man's lonely mission. Vicki? Vicki who?"
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 7 Mar 2022, 03:45
Dano's performance felt consistent with what these types of people are like. They don't have any real friends, lack social skills, detest society and only value likeminded individuals. The way someone like Edward expresses frustration is going to be different to the likes of Bane. He's the nerd who sat alone and was more likely to be a school shooter. Riddler's world view of Batman came crashing down during the interrogation, changing from imagined ally to instant foe. Nashton performed in the orphanage choir, and belting that tune out is his equivalent of "talk to the hand". I still saw the elitist snob in Dano's smirk, which is a trait I associate the most with the Riddler.
While not a spoiler, I was flipping through some comics and this internal monologue from Detective Comics 613 seems to captures the mood of Battinson for the majority of the film: "The night is for me. The Batman doesn't need other people - doesn't need company, or laughter, or words. The Batman needs no kiss on the cheek. For him, the night is enough. The wind in the neon city - the sting of the chill air - the purity of one man's lonely mission. Vicki? Vicki who?"
Pretty much. Dano's Riddler is an unhinged, unbalanced psychopath. And he sees a fellow traveler in Batman.
So, um, what does that say about Batman?
This aspect of the movie plays great for me because of that stuff.
Something we haven't seen in the films outside B66 is an established rogues gallery. The Riddler locked in his cell was a man in despair. His plan succeeded, but it was now over. Batman wasn't on his side, which was the biggest knife of all. But the man who will become the Joker comforts him. He provides hope and hints there's more to come. These freaks have different methods but can all be in it together. This would benefit Dano's Riddler most of all given his lack of a friends circle. He needs new idols now Batman let him down.
Something of a big deal is usually made about Batman operating in daylight hours. The Batman has a number of moments during early morning/twilight, particularly the ending with Batman helping airlift people to safety. As someone who is uneasy about that element I barely raised my eyebrows. It felt both natural and like a fair compromise. It's not pitch black outside but nor is it midday. Night is still his preference - such as how Bruce waits until much later to visit Gil Colson as Batman. I'm finding the way Reeves handles his universe opens up the storytelling potential.
Just finished reading the other Batman site's review of TB. In brief, Jett is all in with Pattinson and TB. That was news to me. Which should tell you something about how little I've been following him for the past bunch of years.
Still, I wonder if the under-reported story here is Reeves bridging the gap between Burton fandom and Nolan fandom. At least so far, Reeves appears to be bringing the fans together in a way I never thought was possible before.
It seems like almost nobody in the core audience is turned off by what Reeves did with the movie. Everyone seems excited about the movie and the future.
We live in interesting times.
I saw the movie. Well...
I loved it. More than I thought I would.
You see, for the longest time I've wanted to have a live action Batman story where he transitions from being the lone (crazy?) figure of the night to being a more inspirational version of himself. I despise the talking heads in the fandom that insist those two versions of Batman are incompatible. Didn't see it coming, but that ends up being the entire point of the movie. Batman saving himself from becoming Rorschach, who he closely resembles in the beginning. Batman is jacked up. His narration sounds cool, then Reeves deliberately shows the words again in his journal, and it looks like the ravings of a lunatic. 'I'm vengeance' actually pays off, and Batman understands he cannot simply punish the guilty, he must protect the innocent. It is a preventive measure, for the Riddler once was innocent and he is still of the people.
This also gives you many opportunities for other villains, who can arise as grassroots heroes. Golden age Harvey Kent whose crimes were dictated by the coin, and when the good side came up, the money went back to the people, back into the hands of the people who needed it. The paranoiac rejection of our institutions in favor of outrageous personalities who promise violent upheaval makes heroes out of the malcontent and malformed.
This one really hit the mark. I understand why The Dark Knight stans are sweating. The Batman in many ways feels very reminiscent of those movies, even a retread. The catch is that it's better. That's the sum up. The Batman is The Dark Knight Trilogy, but, ya know, better at it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c88yNQc0Nhg
Not every take on the movie is positive. Midnight's Edge is agreeing with and amplifying Ryan Kinel from RK Outpost. And, to be fair, I do think there's a germ of truth to all this. I choose to see the positive in TB. But I also think this is a fair take on the movie.
I wonder if Commissioner Savage's death scene was an allusion to the Room 101 scene in George Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. In the book O'Brien straps Winston into a chair with a mask connected to a cage of hungry rats and threatens to open the partition and allow the rats to eat his face. The Riddler does something similar to Savage in the movie, only he follows through on the threat with lethal results.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sun, 6 Mar 2022, 19:39I love the Gemini scene in that movie. Definitely a highlight of the film for me. Brad Douriff's performance in that scene is just incredible and he leaves a big impression even though he's only in one scene. However, with The Batman the thing that keeps me from loving it in the same way is Dano's performance. His screaming and singing felt comical and over the top in a way that didn't fit the film. Looking back on Douriff's performance he screams and gets manic in that scene as well, but to me it fits. Also, Douriff knows how to convey pent up rage and frustration in a way that feels threatening. I'm starting to think Dano was just miscast.
The Exorcist III is horribly underrated, though I've noticed the Rotten Tomatoes score has been slowly creeping up towards 'fresh' in recent years as appreciation for it has grown. Dourif's performance in that film is superb. If you haven't already seen it, you should check out the Legion Cut. Originally Dourif was meant to play Karras as well as the Gemini Killer, but then at the studio's behest Blatty reshot his Karras scenes with Jason Miller reprising the part. But you can see the original version, with Dourif in both roles, in the Director's Cut. I believe Dourif attended a screening of that cut when it was released on Blu-ray a few years back. I'd love to see the Q&A from that event.
Of course he's been in plenty of other memorable films over the years: One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, The Eyes of Laura Mars, Wise Blood, Dune, Blue Velvet, Child's Play and The Lord of the Rings trilogy to name but a few. It was rumoured that Tim Burton approached him to play a villain in Batman III, but Dourif himself debunked this in an interview in 2018.
QuoteYour Wikipedia page says you almost played the Scarecrow in Batman Forever, back when Tim Burton was gonna make that movie. Is that true?
Y'know, I've heard that! One time I saw Tim Burton on an airplane and he was looking at me very interestedly. But I never spoke to him about it, and I think I wouldn't have been big enough a star for anyone to cast me in that role. He might've been interested, but I doubt the powers that be would've let him do it.
https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2018/04/10/and-now-an-intimate-conversation-with-brad-dourif
It's a shame, because he would've been perfect as the Burtonverse Riddler. But yeah, The Exorcist III is a good film IMHO. It's one of the best psychological horror films of the nineties and the only good entry in the Exorcist movie series after the original (unless you count The Ninth Configuration, which is awesome). And since this is a Batman site, I'd be remiss for not mentioning the creepy Joker statue.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FzhPr3h9/exorcist-joker.png)
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 7 Mar 2022, 16:24You see, for the longest time I've wanted to have a live action Batman story where he transitions from being the lone (crazy?) figure of the night to being a more inspirational version of himself. I despise the talking heads in the fandom that insist those two versions of Batman are incompatible. Didn't see it coming, but that ends up being the entire point of the movie. Batman saving himself from becoming Rorschach, who he closely resembles in the beginning. Batman is jacked up. His narration sounds cool, then Reeves deliberately shows the words again in his journal, and it looks like the ravings of a lunatic. 'I'm vengeance' actually pays off, and Batman understands he cannot simply punish the guilty, he must protect the innocent. It is a preventive measure, for the Riddler once was innocent and he is still of the people.
Good analysis. If Batman Forever was a movie about Bruce Wayne figuring out why he needs Batman, then The Batman is a film about the title character learning why he needs Bruce Wayne.
As others have pointed out, Battinson is initially focused on punishing wrongdoers to the extent that he's incapable of comforting victims. We see this after his first fight scene, where he's unable to reassure the frightened man on the platform. He clearly empathises with the mayor's son after he loses his father, but can't offer him any emotional reassurance. It's only after he learns of his parents' failure – that their philanthropic promises were not fulfilled, and that their work is not yet complete – and after he sees how futile the Riddler's preoccupation with vengeance and punishing wrongdoers is, that Batman finally realises he needs to offer Gotham something more. Then he's able to show the good people of Gotham that he's on their side and that they've no need to fear him. This is where Bruce Wayne, the philanthropic side of Batman, finally begins to emerge.
Batman Begins showed us Bruce Wayne's journey to becoming Batman. Reeves' film shows us Batman's journey to becoming Bruce Wayne. I thought it was a clever way of approaching the material from a different angle.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 7 Mar 2022, 19:26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c88yNQc0Nhg
Not every take on the movie is positive. Midnight's Edge is agreeing with and amplifying Ryan Kinel from RK Outpost. And, to be fair, I do think there's a germ of truth to all this. I choose to see the positive in TB. But I also think this is a fair take on the movie.
This Midnight Edge admits he doesn't follow Batman comics, nor is he aware of the Zero Year flooding incident. However when it comes to subtext I think he has a point. But is it such a deal breaker that the movie
falls apart, as he claims? No way. One opinion expressed by Selina doesn't tarnish the whole for me. Yes, the makeup of the city is what it is - but it doesn't feel like the movie makes a big song and dance about things. Those who dislike the last act make it seem like the movie feels completely disconnected from what came before, when to me it feels like an evolution across the board. It seems like Edge didn't want Batman's character evolution to take place. At least not here. I disagree with that line of thought.
How did I miss this post?! Anyway, here we go...
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 5 Mar 2022, 22:35I'd be cool with him presenting a new take on Scarecrow though, as I was never a huge fan of Murphy's version.
There was a VERY minor baddie called Sleeper back in the Moench/Jones run on Batman from the Nineties. Details at https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_Vol_1_516.
I saw her as a sort of alternative to Scarecrow back then and nothing has changed. To be fair, Sleeper doesn't have the same marquee value that Scarecrow does. Hell, a relatively more obscure character like Deadshot is still more widely known than her. Sleeper is a deep cut if ever there was one.
Still, I always saw a lot of potential in the Sleeper character and she could fit into any number of different cinematic styles pretty easily. Plus, the nature of the gas she uses allows for weird and trippy visuals, which is never a bad thing for a comic book movie.
I'm not holding my breath, as it were, for Sleeper to ever be adapted into anything. But I do believe that a filmmaker could do a lot worse than look to her for inspiration, if nothing else. She's got zero baggage from previous incarnations and she is (or can be) a very flexible character as a result.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 5 Mar 2022, 22:35Perhaps even some more fantastical foes like Clayface, Man-Bat and Mister Freeze. But my top pick right now would be the Court of Owls.
Clayface, Man-Bat and a more Dini-like Mr. Freeze have been on my wish list for a long time now. I would understand if Reeves thinks Freeze still has some stink on him after B&R tho. Still, the first two are wide open to adaptation.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 5 Mar 2022, 22:35The one villain I absolutely positively do not want to appear is Harley Quinn. I've grown to hate that character in recent years, and her irritating brand of Deadpool-wannabe humour would be a poor fit for the serious tone of Reeves' films.
A million times this.
The Batman managed to integrate Riddler, Penguin and Catwoman organically. Hell, Falcone was the real focus and the movie wasn't jammed. I like the idea of Penguin (having roughly the same screen time as The Batman), with Mr Freeze and the Court of Owls as the primary focus. The Court of Owls saga had Freeze creating the regeneration serum and giving it to the Owls, only to be targeted for death, but later claiming revenge. There's also a moment where Freeze arrives at the Iceberg Lounge to pick up guns, before heading out. Keeping a classic hook while integrating modern elements would be a good balance. Allowing Freeze an overdue cinematic revamp much like Nolan did for Bane.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 8 Mar 2022, 15:30There was a VERY minor baddie called Sleeper back in the Moench/Jones run on Batman from the Nineties. Details at https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_Vol_1_516.
I saw her as a sort of alternative to Scarecrow back then and nothing has changed. To be fair, Sleeper doesn't have the same marquee value that Scarecrow does. Hell, a relatively more obscure character like Deadshot is still more widely known than her. Sleeper is a deep cut if ever there was one.
Still, I always saw a lot of potential in the Sleeper character and she could fit into any number of different cinematic styles pretty easily. Plus, the nature of the gas she uses allows for weird and trippy visuals, which is never a bad thing for a comic book movie.
I'm not holding my breath, as it were, for Sleeper to ever be adapted into anything. But I do believe that a filmmaker could do a lot worse than look to her for inspiration, if nothing else. She's got zero baggage from previous incarnations and she is (or can be) a very flexible character as a result.
It's been a long, long time since I read those issues, so I can't say I remember Sleeper too clearly. But it's an interesting idea. Using a lesser known villain, and one with comparatively few comic appearances, would give Reeves more freedom to reinvent the character. Another alternative to using Scarecrow would be Hugo Strange, who was the first Batman villain to deploy some variation of fear toxin. Strange used 'fear dust' way back in 'Professor's Strange's Fear Dust' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #46, December 1940), over 26 years before Crane used his own fear toxin for the first time in 'Fright of the Scarecrow' (Batman Vol 1 #189, February 1967).
Just to clarify, I don't dislike Murphy's Scarecrow at all. He was perfectly serviceable as a secondary villain in those films. But there's obviously a lot more that could be done with the character if he were the main antagonist. I wouldn't object to seeing a new version of him. But since we've already seen a gritty and grounded Scarecrow appear in three previous films, I'd say he ranks low on my wishlist compared to certain other characters.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 9 Mar 2022, 02:33
The Batman managed to integrate Riddler, Penguin and Catwoman organically. Hell, Falcone was the real focus and the movie wasn't jammed. I like the idea of Penguin (having roughly the same screen time as The Batman), with Mr Freeze and the Court of Owls as the primary focus. The Court of Owls saga had Freeze creating the regeneration serum and giving it to the Owls, only to be targeted for death, but later claiming revenge. There's also a moment where Freeze arrives at the Iceberg Lounge to pick up guns, before heading out. Keeping a classic hook while integrating modern elements would be a good balance. Allowing Freeze an overdue cinematic revamp much like Nolan did for Bane.
That's a great idea. If the Court of Owls are the antagonists in the next movie, then Freeze's connection to them would provide the perfect context for him to appear as a secondary villain. The Riddler's dark makeover was long overdue, and so is Freeze's. Let's keep our fingers crossed that Reeves is thinking along a similar line.
Speaking of characters that should appear in the sequel, isn't it about time Harold Allnut showed up in a live action movie?
(https://static3.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/All-Star-Batman-2016-003-017.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=370&dpr=1.5)
I think he'd fit in rather well with the world Reeves has created. They've already teased Hush, the villain responsible for killing Harold in the comics, so why not bring in Harold himself? His expertise as a mechanic would offer a fresh explanation for where Bruce gets his vehicles, rather than having him rely on WayneTech R&D again like in the Nolanverse.
But as far as villains go for The Batman 2, right now I'm rooting for the Court of Owls and Mister Freeze. And if they delve deeper into the storyline about Falcone and the Wayne murders then they could also bring in Lew Moxon and Joe Chill as associates of the Penguin. I'd be very happy with that line-up of villains.
If Wikipedia is to be believed, TB is part 1 of a new film trilogy. No idea if a trilogy is a good thing. But if that's the way things go then a trilogy usually features an introductory chapter to establish characters, times and settings, a second chapter that turns the first chapter on its head and then a third chapter that revisits/recontextualizes the first chapter.
If that's so then the Court of Owls might be best saved for TB3.
The Penguin show has officially been ordered. I'm more excited about this project at the moment than the Flash. Anything to do with the Reeves universe to be honest. I think there's more than enough material for them to justify this. Revealing Oz'z past while moving forward with turf wars, becoming a securer of equipment for others. There's also scope to introduce other characters into the mix.
As someone who likes musical montages, Something in the Way was effectively done. Particularly at the end during the flood rescue. I'm not against having another Nirvana song in the next movie. I'd go with Lithium.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgpSzdON2CE
It still has a melancholic edge but has the illusion of being more hopeful. In my scenario it would be played in the context of Bruce preparing to meet Wayne Enterprises executives. Nirvana songs aren't really about the lyrics but the overall mood. But I think these lyrics are quite relevant. Nirvana's sound does capture Pattinson's vibe.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 9 Mar 2022, 22:08
If Wikipedia is to be believed, TB is part 1 of a new film trilogy. No idea if a trilogy is a good thing. But if that's the way things go then a trilogy usually features an introductory chapter to establish characters, times and settings, a second chapter that turns the first chapter on its head and then a third chapter that revisits/recontextualizes the first chapter.
If that's so then the Court of Owls might be best saved for TB3.
I thought Hush might be a good adversary to save for the third film. Make the mystery of what happened between Edward Elliot, the Waynes and Falcone the through line that connects the three films, then have the mystery come to a head in the final entry when Elliot's relation steps up to seek revenge against Bruce.
On the other hand, one advantage to saving the Court of Owls for the final film is that they could then use the second to build up the Bat-Family and incorporate the Night of the Owls storyline into the third.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 9 Mar 2022, 22:32As someone who likes musical montages, Something in the Way was effectively done. Particularly at the end during the flood rescue. I'm not against having another Nirvana song in the next movie. I'd go with Lithium.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgpSzdON2CE
It still has a melancholic edge but has the illusion of being more hopeful. In my scenario it would be played in the context of Bruce preparing to meet Wayne Enterprises executives. Nirvana songs aren't really about the lyrics but the overall mood. But I think these lyrics are quite relevant. Nirvana's sound does capture Pattinson's vibe.
When I first heard that the Nirvana song was going to be used throughout the movie I was afraid it would be cheesy or intrusive. But it actually worked really well, complementing Giacchino's moody score and contributing to the overall ambience. It was stuck in my head for hours after I left the cinema.
I'm excited about a visually consistent Gotham City, with the only difference being the season. Imagine the second film set during winter with snow and ice galore, amplifying the presence of Mr Freeze if he were used.
I agree about Hush being in a movie, possibly the third. Reeves has expressed interest in the character. It would bring things back to Thomas, particularly as the first movie makes a point about him being a doctor and adhering to a hippocratic oath. Which is also what Bruce is trying to do with his no kill rule. Heart of Hush would be a good place to look. Removing Selina's heart and a race to recover it, culminating in a batcave confrontation where Robin assists. This ordeal would bond Bruce and Selina together in a bigger way for a finale, even if things don't work out between them.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 9 Mar 2022, 22:44
When I first heard that the Nirvana song was going to be used throughout the movie I was afraid it would be cheesy or intrusive. But it actually worked really well, complementing Giacchino's moody score and contributing to the overall ambience. It was stuck in my head for hours after I left the cinema.
I'm a child of the 90s. Kurt is a haunting figure in the sense his presence was felt throughout that time and people became big fans, but he was already gone. Nirvana felt ever present and current by were an echo. I'm going back to their music as a result of Something in the Way. Kurt lived a tortured life and that artistry comes across in his work. It's sad how things worked out for him, but then he wouldn't be Kurt Cobain. Again, I'm interested in keeping the Nirvana/Cobain influence for this series.
Here are some interesting quotes from Reeves concerning which villains he might adapt for the sequels. Apparently he is keen to use Hush, but has hinted that he might save him for a later film.
Quote"I think Hush is a really interesting one to do. I'll choose Hush. That doesn't mean that the next [movie villain] will be Hush. I just want to say, there are so many."
https://screenrant.com/the-batman-movie-sequel-villain-hush-matt-reeves/
He's also keen on using Mister Freeze.
Quote"In my view, I just feel drawn to finding the grounded version of everything. So to me it would be a challenge in an interesting way to try and figure out how that could happen, even the idea of something like Mr. Freeze, that such a great story, right? I think there's actually a grounded version of that story, which could be really powerful and could be really great. So, I love the fantastical side of Batman, but this iteration, obviously, while being, to me, I think it is very comics faithful, but I don't think that this one is necessarily, it doesn't lean as hard into the fantastical, I guess. But I think to me what would be interesting would be to try and unwind the fantastical and see, well, how could that make sense here? And so that's kind of my view, how I see it."
https://collider.com/the-batman-sequel-mr-freeze-matt-reeves-comments/
I can easily see a more "realistic" Clayface in this.
Spoiler Filled Review
-------------------------
The same stories have been told over and over. What's important is how you tell the story. I think overall Reeves executed his vision well enough and is a bit auteurish about it. The movie plays more like a noir detective movie for the most part, and the cinematography was EXTREMELY well done. With influences from Seven and Zodiac for sure. The actions scenes were also solid, coherent, and not cut happy a la "Batman Begins" or Taken 1-19.
Pattinson was honestly a pretty excellent take on the character since there was some vulnerability and growth to him which was really great. I felt that the morose narration inner-monologue did a lot of the work that went into making him feel like a creature of the night. Bringing us deeper into Batman's psyche than in previous films. Becoming one with the shadows, and literally blanking out on some of the variables by morning. Evoking a sense of Batman as an emo kid that just simply never grew out of it, choosing to (literally) mask the inner turmoil.
One thing I took notice of, was that Pattison's portrayal of Bruce's behaviour, was of someone that can and will ruin relationships whether it's with the people he's close to or the city as a whole; self isolating himself to the point where no one will want you around if you're dark and edgy and violent and that's it. A strange and interesting performance. All of it together made him feel very primal.
If I have a gripe about Pattison's Batman, is that his rep in "Year Two" as Batman seems a bit disjointed. Which is more of a script issue than Pattison's performance. Clearly, we see a bunch of criminals looking over their shoulders due to Bats reputation at this stage in his career, this is year 2 after all, however, when he prolongedly and loudly walks out from the shadows to confront the gang, they act as if they are anything BUT intimidated. Being vocally dismissive of him, and even taking it further by making fun of him. I understand not everyone is going to have the same exact reaction to this Batman upon their initial confrontation, but its a weird way to convey to the audience exactly what is his standing is with the criminal element after roughly a year of doing this? Seems like something more of a Year One thing than a year two scene to me.
The detective side of Batman was greatly incorporated, and it was an amazing element to finally see used in live action in a satisfactory way. It reminded me of a Raymond Chandler novel. The detective is smart but hindered (his tech acting up) now and then and occasionally gets it wrong or misses the bigger picture. To me, that all works in a Batman story. Especially a Batman early on in his career. Again, it was a very real treat to finally see this fully utilized, and fully exploited for once.
The musical score was nothing short of OUTSTANDING! Actually to a very surprising degree. As this was something I wasn't at all expecting from Michael Giacchino as a composer. As I never really found his work within Disney's MCU films all that much to write home about, but this was clearly on another level. I don't know if his MCU movie work is an easy paycheck or what? But he assuredly stepped up his game with "The Batman". No doubt about it.
Like wow! I mean, for me I really don't think anything will ever truly surpass Danny Elfman's masterful cinematic score for Batman 1989, but I think Giacchino's may very well replace Hans Zimmer's Dark Knight Trilogy score now. Which I wasn't initially prepared to say, but ..... I am now.
The Gotham City in the Reevesverse is pretty amazing to be perfectly honest here. Aesthetically, it felt like a cross between the city in Se7en, and Detroit depicted from 1994's "The Crow". Especially with all the rain, and desolate drearyness of it all. A step up from the Nolanverse Gotham (primarily TDK/TDKR) for sure, and may just actually be my favorite cinematic interpretation of Gotham following the Burtonverse Gotham City.
Jeffrey Wright was extremely well cast and, to be perfectly honest here, I'm leaning towards saying he's probably my favorite Gordon on film thus far. Absolutely brilliant performance. Damn shame that the HBO Max Gotham show is now cancelled. As it would have been a treat having Wright (ideally) making regular appearances.
Andy Serkis as Alfred was just ok in the role. Not great, not horrible. Just there. I didn't see anything worthy enough to say 'Wow they picked the perfect guy to play Alfred' with what we're given here. Actually, I kinda felt sorry for this Alfred in the scene where he's confronted by Bruce, after he just woke up from a friggin' coma from being nearly blown up with semtex, and Bruce starts laying into about about his dad and Falcone's acusations from 20 years ago. I get that he really wants to know, but ffs maybe give him a minute.
Zoe Kravetz was ok as Catwoman. Honestly, she didn't leave much of an impression on me, and I've been debating on whether she was any better in the role than Anne Hathaway. I wouldn't say she's ranked at the bottom for me, but definitely not in the upper echelon either.
Colin Farrel as Penguin .... simply put ... the man was not in this movie enough. Cause he totally knocked it right out of the park with his perforimance. Good god almighty! For someone who wouldn't initially strike you as a good fit for Penguin, the guy truly turned in a Oswald for the ages. Whoever is responsible for his prosthetics should definitely win an award. It's very much deserved, and I look VERY MUCH forward to Colin's Penguin HBO Max tv show.
John Tuturro as Falcone was servicable, but I think Tom Wilkinson's portrayal left more of an impression overall. I couldn't help but chuckle when I saw Falcone playing pool during the scene where Bruce confronts him about Thomas Wayne. Seeing Tuturro with a cue stick instantly made me think of "The Color of Money". Thankfully, he wasn't stroking the cue stick as he laughably did in that movie.
Now to the Riddler. A very entertaining villain, but I can't say the Zodiac killer look really did anything for me after watching the movie. Actually, its not until we actually see Paul Dano caught and fully revealed (in addition to the intense Arkham scene between Riddler and Batman) that I felt we really got a good indication on how spectacular his Riddler truly could be. So in a way, I felt he was underused thanks to the gimp getup (which was more of a hinderance than anything else in my estimation). If anything, with films like Se7en being an obvious influence, I would have preferred this Riddler to have been obscured until his reveal during the arrest scene just like Spacey's John Doe.
The 'fringe' social media side with the Riddler, came across like a merging of The Boys with something like Stormfront. It's not particularly a trope I enjoy to see, and I kinda think it's a little too convenient that these followers, who are essentially just spiteful inadequate redditors, also just happen to be reasonably well trained in infiltration, zip lining, weapons specifics, etc. So, eh.
The grand Riddler plan twist was ok I guess, but felt more like a Post-9/11 Nolanverse climax than what this partiucular Riddler would do in the Reevesverse (would have preferred a more restrained detective story). To me, the idea of flooding Gotham is very much a middle act. Not the final act. As what exactly would stop Gotham being rebuilt and being possibly even more corrupt and morally lost than before? What exactly is the fail safe there? I understood what Ledger's Joker was going for in TDK, but Riddler's plan in TB this seems rather half baked by contrast. Character wise, it would very much be the other way around.
Speaking of Joker, I absolutely hated that Riddler/Joker scene. Good grief, the entire thing was pure cringe (especially with Dano wailing around like an autistic child having a random frustrating online session with Halo), and something that came across as being mandated by Warners during reshoots or something. For a movie that was confidently directed, this scene stuck out like a sore thumb, and felt like literally something ripped from a CW DC tv show. I mean, if the movie itself was filled with comedy like James Gunn's "The Suicide Squad", or light hearted Silver Age DC like Patty Jenkins' "WW1984", I probably wouldn't have even blinked. But with how Matt Reeves "The Batman" is represented for over two hours by this point? Ehhhh .... I think I'll probably be fast forwarding thru this particular part whenever I end up rewatching this on blu ray. Yeesh.
Overall, I liked Dano's Riddler for the most part. Didn't like the Zodiac/Jigsaw angle as much as I would have hoped, but the unmasked/revealed Dano Riddler scenes were pretty awesome (save for that Joker scene).
One thing I would FULLY expect, is that if this Riddler returns for a future sequel, any return would assuredly NOT have him in the zodiac costume again (thankfully). The masked hero fanboy worship/once-hoped-for kinsmanship is now null and void, and he would be beyond the inspired masked imitator deal that was going on in this film. A future scheme would have Riddler wanting you to be fully aware of just who was doing this, and why. Especially for a egotist like the Riddler.
Possibly a WAY to get him into a more TRADITIONAL Riddler if he returns in a future movie....
Honestly, I did think it was a little amusing that Edward "Nigma" is apparently too on the nose, hence going with the "Nashton" last name for this, but the woman running for Mayor has the name, Bella Reál?! Was the campaign slogan, "REAL change!" or something? I don't remember. I get that the Riddler was 100% correct on the dirt on every Gothamite he targeted except, glaringly, Bella Reál, and the film gives really nothing to why she's the exception to the rule of not being corrupt. Interesting.
Speaking of corruption, the film essentially conveys that the GCPD is literally overrun with corruption in this "Year Two" story. With Batman only speaking to Gordon, almost exclusively, because of the said abundance of corruption within the GCPD ranks. However, by the time Falcone is arrested, we are then privy to know that there are actually a generous amount of good and honest cops on the force. More than willing to assist in Falcone's arrest. To me, this came across like there were some scenes missing. Like, we should have got a few scenes illustrating that the corruption within GCPD isn't quite as 'across the board' as originally thought. It just felt abrupt, but not really unlike how I felt with the original surviving Ghostbusters abruptly showing up out of no where near the end of GB Afterlife. That there, ideally, should have been a B story where we follow Ray Stanz reconnecting with Venkman and Zeddemore prior to all of them showing up in full gear.
I can absolutely understand people getting irritated by the "white privilege BS" line spouted out by Catwoman in this, but I wasn't as triggered by this as some (and Andre's assessment over on Midnight's Edge is an interesting analysis). Sure, it's incredibly clunky, and ultimately makes Zoe's Reevesverse Catwoman come across as rather juvenile, and ignorant. Plus, you know that line is going to age about as well as the Myspace quote in Iron Man, but hey, let's just shoehorn it in there. Course, this is Hollywood, and they literally cannot help themselves (to which I'm incredibly mindful of at this point), so it is what it is. Unfortunate and uncessary.
I guess we should be thankful it wasn't Pattinson saying it! Haha
The ending. I liked how the film concluded on a more somber note. Two characters who both lost their parents and who are attracted to each other riding on their motorcycles together for a while until the reach a fork in the road where they split off. Batman watches as Catwoman disappears as he goes on to do his job. I thought that was, actually, kinda touching.
For it's faults, I think the first hour of "The Batman:" really nailed the film noir aspect beautifully and I wanted some more of that, but after that first hour everything sorta meanders when it needed to pick up a little more. To me, this came across as Reeves trying to be a little "too" auteurish in his approach. Hence the longer than necessary running time. Something of which Nolan was guilty of as well, but I don't really find Reeves to be on Nolan's level as a director to really warrant such a lenghty duration for this.
To wrap this up, I'll say it's my most positive cinematic DC movie viewing experience in years. As I didn't walk out thinking it was merely, "Ok", "a mixed bag", or ultimately "disappointing to an extent", but for my money, this just isn't on par with Todd Phillips' JOKER by any stretch.
8/10. A near 7 1/2, but the good elements push it just above the mark.
Interesting how we get three different entries into the Iceberg Lounge for our hero:
As Batman he knocks the twins out, entering via force
As Bruce he is allowed in without incident, entering via respect
As The Drifter he sneaks in unnoticed, entering via stealth
Seems to me the flooded city is the perfect reason for Bruce to begin his philanthropy. Helping rebuilding efforts, funding crisis accomodation and the like. But I wouldn't have an automatic jump with his public persona, I'd have it grow gradually. Just because he sees the company as a tool to help Gotham doesn't mean he's comfortable playing that role. This is a chance to see him learn how to be human.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 10 Mar 2022, 20:44The Gotham City in the Reevesverse is pretty amazing to be perfectly honest here. Aesthetically, it felt like a cross between the city in Se7en, and Detroit depicted from 1994's "The Crow". Especially with all the rain, and desolate drearyness of it all.
Visually it reminded me of The Crow too. I kept expecting someone to say, "It can't rain all the time."
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 10 Mar 2022, 20:44Speaking of corruption, the film essentially conveys that the GCPD is literally overrun with corruption in this "Year Two" story. With Batman only speaking to Gordon, almost exclusively, because of the said abundance of corruption within the GCPD ranks. However, by the time Falcone is arrested, we are then privy to know that there are actually a generous amount of good and honest cops on the force. More than willing to assist in Falcone's arrest. To me, this came across like there were some scenes missing. Like, we should have got a few scenes illustrating that the corruption within GCPD isn't quite as 'across the board' as originally thought.
I'd forgotten about that scene, but now that you mention it I remember thinking that was a bit odd when I saw it in the cinema. It almost felt as though there was a missing Untouchables-style subplot about Gordon vetting his colleagues to find out which cops he could trust. Presumably this is something they were planning to explore in the GCPD TV show.
This was posted in another thread and I get that. But since we might STILL be protecting against spoilers (and if we are, I say we should abandon that policy beginning this coming Sunday) then it seemed like this thread is a better place for me to reply.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 29 Oct 2021, 23:57I see some Unabomber in there too. Someone detached from society and living a solitary existence, but having strong critiques of the world, committing crimes to draw large scale attention to his beliefs.
I don't think it quite worked out that way. But now that you mention it, I do like the idea of Batman going up against an isolated, alienated Unabomber type of villain. Can't think of a good candidate for that tho. Besides the Riddler, I mean.
Elements of the Unabomber remain while not being a pure translation. Nashton was a forensic accountant and Kaczynski a mathematics professor. Both were driven by a specific political motive rather than the thrill of random killing. Nashton sends Bruce Wayne a mail bomb which Alfred went to open. And this is a bit of a stretch, but his apartment was a small area full of equipment and journaling.
Also interesting to note TB's Riddler wears the same glasses as Jim Carrey's long haired Nygma.
Jett is on twitter, and it looks like he's teasing something about Clayface. Could be about the Arkham show, or it could be a tease for the new villain?
Clayface has always been my #1 choice. I would love to see what Reeves could do.
This comes from the no spoiler thread. But I don't think it makes sense anymore to resurrect the no spoiler thread. So, here we are.
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 4 Feb 2022, 15:36
The Riddler's theme just dropped. I like this a lot. Slow buildup and then it just gets really creepy. I'm diggin the vibe.
https://youtu.be/x7rRdbb1qGo
Still adore this theme in general and this track in particular. It's got a spooky vibe going for it that works well for this version of the Riddler.
Broadly, I enjoy this Riddler somewhat competing with TDK's Joker over whose master plan can raise the most hell in Gotham City.
I've only seen TB once. But I am very much looking forward to seeing it again.
Yeah, the entire soundtrack is amazing. One of the best parts of the movie, IMO.
So good.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 28 Mar 2022, 01:10
This comes from the no spoiler thread. But I don't think it makes sense anymore to resurrect the no spoiler thread. So, here we are.
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 4 Feb 2022, 15:36
The Riddler's theme just dropped. I like this a lot. Slow buildup and then it just gets really creepy. I'm diggin the vibe.
https://youtu.be/x7rRdbb1qGo
Still adore this theme in general and this track in particular. It's got a spooky vibe going for it that works well for this version of the Riddler.
Broadly, I enjoy this Riddler somewhat competing with TDK's Joker over whose master plan can raise the most hell in Gotham City.
I've only seen TB once. But I am very much looking forward to seeing it again.
I like how you can hear bits of Ave Maria in there.
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 28 Mar 2022, 20:26
Yeah, the entire soundtrack is amazing. One of the best parts of the movie, IMO.
So good.
It really is. It works for me as a soundtrack outside of being paired up with the visuals now, too. Giachhino's Batman theme works in a variety of different moods. For example, Can't Fight City Halloween is an instant classic of dread and darkness, while .42-50 of an In Im-purr-fect Murder is bombastic and energetic. 2.57-3.20 of the same cue is similar but with horror elements. A Flood of Terrors is perhaps my favorite, with 1.43-2.11 being some of the most Batman-y music ever recorded. There's a low key, sleuthing excitement that I love.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 28 Mar 2022, 01:10
Broadly, I enjoy this Riddler somewhat competing with TDK's Joker over whose master plan can raise the most hell in Gotham City.
I think Hardy's Bane raised the most hell in Gotham. I'd have to weigh things up between TDK's Joker and TB's Riddler, because they have similar traits but key differences. The Joker took on the mob, whereas the Riddler targeted political and law enforcement corruption. The Joker grew to love Batman but he initially wanted him dead or retired. The Riddler had admiration for Batman from the beginning of his crusade and thus didn't target him. But he hated Bruce Wayne, whereas Carrey's loved him. The Joker had a physical presence whereas The Riddler didn't, and attacked from the shadows in the same way as Batman. I'm leaning towards Joker raising more hell, but it's a close call. Flooding the city gives Riddler a lot of points.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 29 Mar 2022, 02:15I'm leaning towards Joker raising more hell, but it's a close call. Flooding the city gives Riddler a lot of points.
TDK's Joker tried to get others "off the bench". TB's Riddler actually
succeeded.
The answer seems pretty obvious to me.
It's not so cut and dried for me on that front. The Joker did have likeminded people working for him on the street. The crew on board the 'slaughter is the best medicine' truck, the people who fire the cables to destroy the helicopter, and the team dispersed throughout the skyscraper. They would be adherents to his philosophy in the same way Riddler's followers would be. Joker also managed to tempt everyday people in to killing Reese to avoid the hospital destruction. The true test for both would be in legacy terms. If the devotion continues long after their leader's arrest and if other people join up.
Finally saw it, and glad I did. Is it me, or when Falcone got shot, Robert Pattinson look is very similar to Keatons right before he drops Jack in the vat of chemicals.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 29 Mar 2022, 02:55
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 29 Mar 2022, 02:15I'm leaning towards Joker raising more hell, but it's a close call. Flooding the city gives Riddler a lot of points.
TDK's Joker tried to get others "off the bench". TB's Riddler actually succeeded.
The answer seems pretty obvious to me.
Yeah, I would agree. I think the Riddler's created more hell in Gotham. I don't even think it's a contest. I think he created more destruction and chaos that Bane or Ra's, too.
I mean, he flooded the city and thousands of people are dead. That's the most destruction we've seen in a live action movie, IMO.
The flooding does give The Riddler a lot of points. Before that moment I probably feel the Joker created a bigger sense of unease in the general public. But overall, no other live action villain hits Batman or Gotham as comprehensively as Bane, or for such a sustained period of time.
Takes down Bruce Wayne's finances
Defeats Batman and imprisons him in a foreign country
Steals his armory and uses it against Gotham
Let criminals out of jail and gives them firearms
Cuts Gotham off from the rest of the world
Traps the Police Force underground
Keeps people locked in their homes out of fear
Had a nuclear weapon as leverage
Destroys a stadium as a show of force
Reveals political corruption
Starts a class war by targeting the rich
Kills the Mayor
Kills special forces operatives and has them displayed
Bane gave Gotham and Bruce a sense of long term hopelessness that the other villains don't match. It's a slow burn misery that I would hate to live through, which makes the answer seem pretty obvious to me.
Just verified the movie is up on HBO Max. Might rewatch it this coming weekend.
I'm rewatching it tonight.
Hell, I may watch it every night this week.
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 18 Apr 2022, 15:58
I'm rewatching it tonight.
Hell, I may watch it every night this week.
I wondered about that. But it's kind of a lulu in terms of runtime. Plus, I just realized that some King Kong movies are on HBO Max too. So, I was planning to watch some Kong movies this week.
As for the weekend, we'll see.
When Batman egnited the flare and walks on with the people of Gotham, I wonder if this track from Returns was used as a temp. Even in the theatres I was like "this feels like Penguins death"
https://youtu.be/mGoo5-jfzsw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7p_jgbsvs&list=PLohYzz4btpaSU_9e8GKyykAytEgd8MM8X&index=24
Some parts do feel very Elfman
I'm giving a shout out to the single best shot of Gotham since the Burton era.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z5KS1qTn/48-FDADFA-EB40-4-A55-ACCF-FC15-EC49-DE5-B.jpg)
It has a similar energy to B89's Gotham with cars and people lining the street, making it feel alive.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rsm1BWYg/21-CDCE99-2637-410-E-B516-100-F55272199.webp)
It has the neon of Schumacher while simply depicting locations such as Times Square or Piccadilly Circus.
(https://i.postimg.cc/T1Dw53yf/F21-ABC01-D867-41-E9-BCBE-78792-E56-F046.webp)
The surrounding areas remain dark and dingy with contemporary Nolan buildings in the background.
(https://i.postimg.cc/c1z0t3NS/5-EB3-EA69-E4-BB-4656-B8-D6-31-DBCC5-E35-AA.jpg)
A real world that oozes atmosphere and merges eras - that's the achievement of Reeves and Fraser.
https://bleedingfool.com/news/batmangate-dc-writer-posts-damning-proof-matt-reeves-stole-his-script
The tl;dr of it is Chris Wozniak is claiming that Michael Uslan stole basically the entire plot and setup of TB without compensation. He provides evidence of his claims in his YouTube video.
Decide for yourself if he's telling the truth. Honestly, I think the pieces all fit together pretty well. Well enough to merit further investigation anyway.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 30 Jul 2022, 08:00
https://bleedingfool.com/news/batmangate-dc-writer-posts-damning-proof-matt-reeves-stole-his-script
The tl;dr of it is Chris Wozniak is claiming that Michael Uslan stole basically the entire plot and setup of TB without compensation. He provides evidence of his claims in his YouTube video.
Decide for yourself if he's telling the truth. Honestly, I think the pieces all fit together pretty well. Well enough to merit further investigation anyway.
This will likely only go as far as Steve Englehart's claims about The Dark Knight stealing from his material.
Finally saw it as complementary entertainment on a flight. As you can probably tell for being this late, I was not looking forward to it. Just on principle, with the amount of reboots coming out nowadays and watering down franchises, I just felt they weren't worth my attention and patronage (I've felt similarly about Lightyear).
I know the reception has been generally good, if a little inflated. What I mean by that is franchises that are dormant or unsuccessful for years will get a lot of hype if a new entry is more than competent; to the point where it's commonplace to see critics claiming "this is the best X movie ever!" So I'll say this is definitely a competently made film and held my attention all the way through, including the slower parts. The large assortment of characters actually did work to form a cohesive whole, which normally spells doom for superhero films.
Pattinson is an interesting case. It seems like every director wants to cast the next Heath Ledger, who successfully subverted typecasting and elevated the film. Pattinson has similarly been repairing his reputation through a series of serious roles (he's a talented actor and doesn't deserve to carry the burden of his teen heartthrob roles). While I still believe he was miscast, he still gave this role 100%.
Getting the bad out of the way, I think this is one of the worst looking Batsuits that's too techy and changes the facial structure of the cowl too much. The Bruce Wayne portrayal is also a bit TOO unbelievable. Breaking away from the playboy facade of the comics, I found it similar to Keaton's portrayal. Though he's way too moody and unrelatable to make for a good Bruce. That, and it's apparent that he was not in the kind of shape to be Batman.
But as for the positive, the portrayal of Batman may be one of the most accurate I've seen. Most portrayals are good, but have a couple definitive moments where he acts out of character. I never got that here. They nailed his cooperation with Gordon and the GCPD, as well as just his general purpose. Good Bat-voice too (slightly raspy and disguised like Keaton, not growly like Bale or robotic like Affleck). I know I spent a lot of time on nitpicks here, but believe me that this portrayal of Batman makes the film worthwhile.
The villains were all serviceable. Not sure we needed Colin Farrell as the Penguin, but again he works with what he's given. But I do have many issues with the Riddler. In a vacuum, Paul Dano's performance is fine, but comparing him to the comics, he's unrecognizable to me.
While I prefer Riddler's classic look, I recognize that his three-piece suit redesign may bode better for realism. But seeing none of those used and the look they settled on is very disappointing. As for the characterization: it's funny that some fans complain that Jim Carrey was trying to be Jack Nicholson's Joker. I'd make the claim that this Riddler was trying too hard to be Heath Ledger's Joker.
Going back to my disdain for reboots, I always dread having to be reintroduced to the same core cast over and over again. Gordon was fine, Catwoman was fine, but for some reason I was just apathetic about this Alfred. We've already seen some fantastic portrayals of the character, and Andy Serkis' just hasn't come close.
The film was also hindered by its length and scope. Everything was wrapping up in a satisfying conclusion before the Riddler destroys the city. In general, this would have worked fine as two films. The ending was very drawn out, and it didn't help that we got the Marvel sequel teaser ending with the Joker. I miss when films were just allowed to have satisfying and conclusive endings; cliffhangers have definitely worn out their welcome in the superhero film genre.
Those were just some of my thoughts. Much better film than I anticipated, but not sure if I can put it up there with the greats.
Quote from: Slash Man on Sun, 6 Nov 2022, 22:16
Getting the bad out of the way, I think this is one of the worst looking Batsuits that's too techy and changes the facial structure of the cowl too much.
I think the Keaton and Affleck suits are the best, but I still don't mind this one. I like the various influences it has, such as Arkham Knight, Gotham By Gaslight and the original chest logo. It does have the Nolan era feel but it's still 100% unique to Pattinson.
Quote from: Slash Man on Sun, 6 Nov 2022, 22:16
Those were just some of my thoughts. Much better film than I anticipated, but not sure if I can put it up there with the greats.
That's a fair assessment. The Batman isn't mind-blowing nor bad. They handled the reboot aspect tastefully in the sense the movie just begins and jumps straight into an already established world. The Riddler mostly worked for me, especially when you consider the modern material they base him on. I liked The Penguin, and the mobster/businessman angle was the right way to go. I liked Serkis, but he definitely needs more to do next time. Indeed, the overall product feels more like groundwork, because it is. We have at least two or three TV shows in the pipeline along with one sequel. The expansion is going to be greater than most incarnations of Batman, so let's hope they have worthwhile ideas in mind.
I hated the movie, it mostly felt like a lot was what I had already seen before and either worse or as bad.
Pattinson Batman felt too much like just Bale Batman again with some elements from Keaton added in, very cheap.
I had been looking forward to Farrell as Penguin and Dano as Riddler and they were so disappointing. In particular the Riddler felt like just doing the Joker and Bane again combined.
John Turturro as Falcone and Jeffrey Wright as Gordon were pretty much the only good parts.
Quote from: Andrew on Mon, 2 Jan 2023, 18:51
I hated the movie, it mostly felt like a lot was what I had already seen before and either worse or as bad.
Pattinson Batman felt too much like just Bale Batman again with some elements from Keaton added in, very cheap.
I had been looking forward to Farrell as Penguin and Dano as Riddler and they were so disappointing. In particular the Riddler felt like just doing the Joker and Bane again combined.
John Turturro as Falcone and Jeffrey Wright as Gordon were pretty much the only good parts.
I enjoyed the production design and cinematography immensely. This is a bit different look for Gotham City and it plays for me.
Also, the Zodiac meets Se7en tone of the film was another winner. I'm accepting the fact that this is probably the closest we'll ever get to David Fincher directing a Batman film. I appreciate this aspect of the movie.
Another successful element of the film is the score by Michael Giacchino. The main hero theme easily lends itself to different phrasings, speeds, pitches, instrumentation, etc. The dynamic quality of the hero theme elevates this movie considerably in my estimation.
I dig the Batsuit too. You can see where Bruce will gradually improve the design and make modifications that will improve his effectiveness.
Still, there are so many Batman films in the background for me. Even if you put aside the awesome animated stuff out there, Burton, Schumacher, Nolan, they all have something captivating about their work that keeps me coming back. Their shadows loom large as well. At this point, I don't think a Batman film can exist that will top the work Burton, Schumacher and Nolan in my book. Or at least, I don't think it's likely to ever happen.
So, all I want from a new Batman film is for it to be enjoyable on its own merits. There's no need for a director to completely reinvent the wheel as far as I'm concerned.
I watched The Batman again on Blu-ray last month and I still enjoyed it. I think the movie could use some editing to tighten it up, as well as some humour to offset the numbing sombreness. But it's a good film.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 2 Jan 2023, 19:27Still, there are so many Batman films in the background for me. Even if you put aside the awesome animated stuff out there, Burton, Schumacher, Nolan, they all have something captivating about their work that keeps me coming back. Their shadows loom large as well. At this point, I don't think a Batman film can exist that will top the work Burton, Schumacher and Nolan in my book. Or at least, I don't think it's likely to ever happen.
We've had so many good Batman films that it's getting harder for them to make an impact. Which is why now would be the perfect time for Batman Beyond. That would take things in a fresh new direction and be unlike any previous live action Batman movie.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 4 Jan 2023, 16:29
We've had so many good Batman films that it's getting harder for them to make an impact. Which is why now would be the perfect time for Batman Beyond. That would take things in a fresh new direction and be unlike any previous live action Batman movie.
I think if they just put Batman in a more fantastical environment, it would really change things up. I love The Batman, it may be my favorite live action Batman, but it does feel a bit derivative of the "grounded" takes. I still prefer Batman in a fantastical setting, and I think he works bets there. I want to see him go up against a Clayface, Freeze, Ivy, Croc, etc. I still think the DCAU is my preferable take all around, and I think it would be really cool to have a more "period piece" movie similar to BTAS. Plus, I think the technology is there to properly do it.
Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 4 Jan 2023, 18:00I think if they just put Batman in a more fantastical environment, it would really change things up. I love The Batman, it may be my favorite live action Batman, but it does feel a bit derivative of the "grounded" takes. I still prefer Batman in a fantastical setting, and I think he works bets there. I want to see him go up against a Clayface, Freeze, Ivy, Croc, etc. I still think the DCAU is my preferable take all around, and I think it would be really cool to have a more "period piece" movie similar to BTAS. Plus, I think the technology is there to properly do it.
Your mouth to God's ear. Back when the digital backlot style was more trendy, I thought a Batman film along those lines would be different enough to automatically set itself apart from the pack. Not so sure if that's a viable option anymore tho.
So many great villains have never been seen on film. Clayface, Man-Bat, Hugo Strange and the Monster Men, The (Mad) Monk, so many choices and so much "new" territory. Wide audiences haven't seen the majority of what Batman mythos can offer.
The cinematography of The Batman is incredible. If it's not the best looking Batman film it's definitely near the top. If the same creative team is on board they're already half way there, ala Joker II. Reeves knows now what people liked and what needs to be tinkered with. I think in the end we'll have two TV shows that occur in between the three movies (The Penguin and something else like the Arkham show). That's a solid run for this universe. After that, I'm guessing the DCU Batman will continue the character's cinematic representation and stand alone. That's probably the best bet for a more fantastical BTAS style interpretation.
Didn't know which topic to post in about seeing the movie so I figured I'd just do this one.
Finally saw it here recently, a couple years late but successfuly avoided any spoilers somehow (part of my absence from here). Really enjoyed it. The Batmobile chase sequence was my favorite but overall I really loved the movie. Robert was a great year two Batman, excited to see his Batman and Bruce Wayne both evolve. Michelle's Catwoman is still my queen, I doubt that will ever change, but I really liked Zoe. The whole cast was pretty great. I wish there had been more moments of Bruce and Alfred but I'm sure that will come.
It's a good movie and an even better launchpad for what comes next. What I like most about Pattinson is his silence and general aura which is most comparable to Keaton. His first scene with Gordon at the crime scene is a good example of that. Really looking forward to seeing how he evolves particularly as Bruce, and there's a good chance we'll see him in The Penguin later this year.
Right now for the sequel I'd like to see a villain like Hugo Strange and even go with a straight adaption of Prey. The series has been described as an epic crime saga so I think like Nolan, that rules out fantastical threats. I'm hoping to hear casting news soon for whatever characters get chosen in any case. Even if the sequel gets delayed for whatever reason we've eaten well as fans. We're been fortunate to have had directors like Burton, Schumacher, Nolan and Reeves give different interpretations of the world in solo films.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK2gVp3tKMs
I've only seen the movie once and that was on opening day in its theatrical run.
But this popped up in my YouTube recommends so I watched it. And I guess I'd forgotten how brutal this Batman is. Some of the injuries he inflicted in this fight scene will be lifelong.
What stood out to me this whole time was the emphasis on Batman as a detective. Which is great. But this Batman is also a major league ass-kicker. And that's something you could argue is somewhat missing from previous incarnations of the character. Yeah, Affleck messed a lot of people up.
But it's still pretty arguable if Pattinson is more deadly than Affleck.
Maybe it's time I finally give The Batman a rewatch...
I rewatched it again for the first time in about a year, and I still love this movie.
I still think it's my favorite live action Batman. Joker is probably my favorite live action CBM, and this is my favorite Batman.
Well, it looks like the sequel is delayed to October 20-friggin-26.
(https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.ebd3cae5ace385bcb347060290ec8f3c?rik=u%2frVftxNaabsHg&riu=http%3a%2f%2f25.media.tumblr.com%2f636ba4ac44991ba312044427eaa702f3%2ftumblr_mjiir1SjKO1rv7e8so1_500.gif&ehk=Os3ibFnmZRvPolABKEdC%2fycA%2bZQyvgiOO%2fJMtP5noP0%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0)
That sucks. I've read a lack of available stages for filming and the script not being ready due to strikes are being cited for the delay. At least we have The Penguin this year. But I have to admit this still hurts the momentum of this universe to a degree. And it makes you wonder when Gunn wants the Brave and the Bold movie released.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU9aic4H8hs
Probably should've mentioned this sooner. But Cinema Wins did a video about this movie back in December. Very enjoyable.