I was never really a huge fan of this series, mainly because I was really young when I watched it (used to have an episode on VHS). Though it was groundbreaking to say the least, I thought to revisit it sometime.
Now, to give some backstory, I don't understand copyright laws, though I know that they were sketchy at best back in the day. Sadly, this has allowed countless films to fall into public domain. I've seen this commonly spell the downfall of classics with the flood of inferior releases that can now legally flood the market. Usually, this discourages the original company from releasing it themselves due, seeing it as no longer financially viable. But DC has risen above. By chance, I found a DVD containing the complete series that didn't look like sh*t. The official seal of DC was never a more welcome sight. Turns out they do have their own official release, and it should be the ONLY option for fans due to it coming from the original 35 mm master. $5 was a steal (they had it at Five Below, though it originally went at $26).
I'm going to go through the series and post back with how well it stood the test of time. There was even an attempt at bonus features, so clearly DC took great care with this release.
I loved these Superman cartoons when I was little.
Alright, the quality of the show itself and the DVD transfer are on par. The original aspect ratio is preserved, the colors are vibrant, and the animation is clear. The sound is also great.
It's strange to see how much this show not only influenced all superhero shows to come, but animation in general. Honestly, this was made at the perfect time. We get an interesting look at early Superman brought to life, and the animation still dazzles. Both the Golden Age of comics and animation is represented here. At this time in animation, the influence of the Fleischers was probably second only to Disney himself. The animation is gorgeous to look at, such detail and finesse is unheard of in animation today. The voice acting is good, and even amusing at times. The orchestral score is what binds it all together.
The plots are pretty simple and similar, which is fine considering the runtime, as well as the fact that they were theatrical shorts and not intended to be viewed as a linear story back-to-back. Lois Lane is a pretty interesting character. Wouldn't say she's a complete damsel in distress; sometimes she gets out there and helps Superman. She has no fear of danger, but sometimes she lacks common sense in the name of journalism. And other times, she just has the worst luck ever when the bad guys end up kidnapping her.
Haven't fully explored the bonus features, but the presentation of the features could be greatly improved by a main menu. Oh well.
EDIT: It does have a main menu, my DVD player must just be goofy
I've been watching these shorts over the weekend for the first time in twenty-odd years. Superman may have evolved since the 1940s, but this was my first exposure to Superman growing up, and I have always loved it. A detail I love about the series is the majority of the shorts is set in film noir. I've read somewhere Bruce Timm said the Fleischer shorts was a major influence in creating BTAS, and you can definitely see it.
The stories are be straightforward and formulaic, but I love how the series embraces Superman's badass approach. It doesn't matter who he fights - whether it's robots, monsters, gansgters, thieves, Japanese soldiers or Nazis; Superman doesn't hold back any punches. Literally. He will put you down if you get in his way. A great example in the episode Eleventh Hour, where he sabotages all of the Imperial Japanese Army's ships and weapons without breaking a sweat, and beating up all the soldiers while stopping their assassination attempts on Lois. It may be WWII propaganda, but if you want to turn off your brain and watch Superman kick ass, this is for you.
The Mad Scientist is one of the greatest Superman anything there's ever been.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 13:24
The Mad Scientist is one of the greatest Superman anything there's ever been.
I saw The Mad Scientist as a youngster. It's a short piece but it says a lot about Superman. He works at a newspaper, has a love interest, has a secret life, is incredibly strong and never gives up against overwhelming obstacles. The music and the visuals were both great. So what's the lesson here? To nail the bare essentials. Do the simple things well and you will have a good product. Not many films do that anymore, and it shows.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 24 Sep 2018, 01:27
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 13:24
The Mad Scientist is one of the greatest Superman anything there's ever been.
I saw The Mad Scientist as a youngster. It's a short piece but it says a lot about Superman. He works at a newspaper, has a love interest, has a secret life, is incredibly strong and never gives up against overwhelming obstacles. The music and the visuals were both great. So what's the lesson here? To nail the bare essentials. Do the simple things well and you will have a good product. Not many films do that anymore, and it shows.
I agree. It does nail quite a few crucial elements of Superman. I find it telling that Lois not only knows how to fly a plane but apparently has one of her own. But nitpicky stuff aside, The Mad Scientist is quintessential Golden Age Superman.
I really have a affinity for this series growing up as a kid. Like alot of other people, I first viewed some episodes on cheap VHS tapes that my cousins had, with only a few selected episodes. "The Mad Scientist", which is nothing short of outstanding, being the most common. I think I was either in 4th or 5th grade when I finally got a VHS of my own from a local dollar store. Superman was a must have, Popeye and Mighty Mouse were the other's I remember picking up as well. Reason I remember, is because I watched the hell out of them. ;)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvhscollector.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fvhscovers%2Fsuperman.jpg&hash=3e3a1b011a33ce1d9b56dea9bacf9bed8fef3672)
Then I think it was only a few years later, that my Mom decided to surprise me over the summer with a VHS 3 volume box set of the Max Fleischer Superman toons that contained every episode. A very nice surprise to say the least, and I distinctly remember the quality being better (maybe only slightly more than marginally better) than any other VHS version I ever laid eyes on. But the appeal for me, more than anything, was being able to finally watch the entire series. Which was definitely a novelty during this time period.
(https://i.unisquare.com/img/500/1/1/8/48b44eb1b45fafc2ae39b065u.jpg)
To this day, I am not sure where she got the set from? It wasn't anything I recall seeing at any Wal-Mart, K-Mart, or Target that was local to us, and I would like to think I kept a sharp eye, especially back then, on such things. I have a vague recollection of her saying she ordered the set, so it might have been something from a book club that, in addition, offered VHS tapes as well. But that's just a guess. I took the time to do a transfer from these VHS tapes to DVD when I got a DVD recorder/burner around 2004. Then Warners released an official complete series, and that was a "must buy" as well.
But yeah, "Mad Scientist" is the classic. "Mechanical Monsters" is alot of fun. I really liked when I finally saw, "The Arctic Giant", and "Terror on the Midway" due to my love for giant monsters. "Volcano" has some great visuals. "Japoteurs" captures that place in time during WW2, similar to the 1943 Batman serial, that I find both fascinating to watch, and dig. I even liked the imposter Superman story line in "Showdown". The list goes on and on ..... :)
Double post
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 27 Sep 2018, 05:52
I really have a affinity for this series growing up as a kid. Like alot of other people, I first viewed some episodes on cheap VHS tapes that my cousins had, with only a few selected episodes. "The Mad Scientist", which is nothing short of outstanding, being the most common. I think I was either in 4th or 5th grade when I finally got a VHS of my own from a local dollar store. Superman was a must have, Popeye and Mighty Mouse were the other's I remember picking up as well. Reason I remember, is because I watched the hell out of them. ;)
I still have the VHS copy for most of the episodes after all these years, but I lost the sleeve a long time ago. Back when I was younger, I used to watch that and Looney Tunes, with a little bit of Popeye and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. 8)
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 27 Sep 2018, 05:52
I even liked the imposter Superman story line in "Showdown". The list goes on and on ..... :)
Showdown was good. (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/batmanonlinecom_default/images/post/thumbup.gif)
My favourite little one liner in that series came from that episode, where Clark sees the Superman imposter and says "My double is in for some trouble". Including the ending, where Lois tells Clark he'd make a fine Superman after he told her (or rather, lied to her) he was dreaming about being him, and Clark quips "Well, I can dream, can't I?"...before he wears the tuxedo hat he squashed and it suddenly pops back into shape. A classy little wink to the audience. ;)
One important factor that this thread hasn't talked about is rotoscoping.
Max Fleischer is recognised as the inventor of the technique - which traces and sketches over live action imagery to create animation. Till now, I was under the impression his innovative technique was introduced in his Superman shorts. I was wrong - according to this video, rotoscoping was introduced way back in 1919. :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfXAlqx0H1g
Nevertheless, rotoscope was used in the Superman shorts; a man called Karol Krauser modeled after the leading character. He was a star wrestler in the 1950s.
(https://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/fleischer-cartoons/KarolKrauser1.jpg)
Source: https://www.supermanhomepage.com/movies/movies.php?topic=dyk-karolkrauser
The new Superman and Lois TV show paid homage to Fleischer's Superman.
https://youtu.be/GGm1jyZpk7E
I see the Boy Scout/Donner purists praising this scene as "everything Superman should be", and how the costume shows the trunks can still work in film and TV. I don't think many of them have seen the Fleischer shorts, because Superman in those cartoons was too busy brawling with criminals, monsters, cultists and WWII Axis soldiers. He had no time to smile and make cheesy comments.
I would love to see a 1940s-esque Superman film in the style of Fleischer. Too bad the costume was wasted on Tyler Hoechlin.
Superman in that era was a two-fisted, square-jawed man of few words. He was a no-nonsense New Dealer Democrat who wouldn't think twice about busting as many heads as necessary to get the job done. And maybe a few extra, just to keep everyone else in line?
As you say, people seem to have a weird romanticized view of what Superman was actually like in the late Thirties and early Forties but that view has not much to do with reality. And even when you get into the late Forties, a lot of Superman stories were just downright weird.
Basically, in that video Hoechlin's Superman is paying homage to a version of the character that's technically never existed anywhere but in people's imaginations. It's just odd to me.
Poking around Twitter, suddenly everybody's a Superman expert. Ordinarily, I have no interest in measuring dicks over who knows more about Superman. But, as you say, since most of those yahoos decry Cavill's Superman, I'd love to know what their bona fides are that I should care what they have to say about Superman.
Here's everything you need to know Hoechlin as Superman:
(https://img.fireden.net/co/image/1569/96/1569962500746.jpg)
Looks to me like Welling is at least six inches taller and much broader in the shoulders. Maybe we should call the other guy Specklin instead of Hoechlin?
Bottom line, I don't plan to watch this show. Snyder aside, I don't trust modern Hollywood with Superman.
I recently found a youtube channel where there was a 'restoration' of the Max Fleischer cartoons of the 1940s. Adding in videos explaining the process, and the differences between the many editions that have been released thanks to the series being public domain.
I haven't fully explored this project, but felt it's worth leaving a link for in this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLydQRjWSfL5fPF9VsYJtotWgKILTx9fZB
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 25 Feb 2021, 04:45
Superman in that era was a two-fisted, square-jawed man of few words. He was a no-nonsense New Dealer Democrat who wouldn't think twice about busting as many heads as necessary to get the job done. And maybe a few extra, just to keep everyone else in line?
As you say, people seem to have a weird romanticized view of what Superman was actually like in the late Thirties and early Forties but that view has not much to do with reality. And even when you get into the late Forties, a lot of Superman stories were just downright weird.
Basically, in that video Hoechlin's Superman is paying homage to a version of the character that's technically never existed anywhere but in people's imaginations. It's just odd to me.
A person who is much wiser than me reckons this is an example of the Mandela Effect, a bizarre social phenomenon where too many people misremember events that only happened in their minds, but not in reality. I'd say the misinformation surrounding Superman's history by gatekeepers within the industry exacerbates the problem. And let's face it, willful blindness is another culprit. It's one thing to have a preference for how a character should be portrayed. It's another to ignore the character's history just to cling onto your narrow-minded point of view. Dishonest "fans" like that have done far more damage to the brand than people who genuinely don't know any better.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 25 Feb 2021, 04:45
Looks to me like Welling is at least six inches taller and much broader in the shoulders. Maybe we should call the other guy Specklin instead of Hoechlin?
As much as I don't like to body shame anyone, even your most hated Superman actor of all time - Brandon Routh - looks more imposing than Tyler Hoechlin. Let that sink in.
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/a2cc3f5892e44f26f957d9b1946b988a/b20f75cd4ec12a39-b5/s540x810/f45a5ae6a370e7ad19df97a7452abb0852caf59f.gifv)
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 25 Feb 2021, 04:45
Bottom line, I don't plan to watch this show.
Same here. I can't sit through Hoechlin playing a happy-go-lucky caricature any more than I saw in his debut appearance on Supergirl and the two Arrowverse crossovers. The same goes for Elizabeth Tulloch's quippy Lois Lane. People who say those portrayals are great are probably the same crowd who thinks the MCU Spider-Man is the best.
As for trusting Hollywood to adapt Superman again other than Snyder, it will definitely take someone with balls to go against the status quo to do something creative. But in this climate, it seems rather unlikely. Even though I mentioned that I would love to see a period-piece Superman movie in the style of Max Fleischer, I can't help but suspect it will be heavily sanitised for the PC crowd. As a matter of fact, I'm rather surprised that gatekeepers haven't turned against Fleischer's legacy, for the way Superman's adversaries are depicted. They love to demonise Snyder with slanderous accusations of "rape fetish" and "Randian this and that", but they don't seem to find the character designs of Japanese villains or tribesmen as "problematic", as they like to say.
BTW, I personally don't have a problem with the animation because I know it was a product of its time, I'm only talking about how these know-it-alls could've perceived these cartoons to suit their agenda.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 25 Feb 2021, 06:24
I recently found a youtube channel where there was a 'restoration' of the Max Fleischer cartoons of the 1940s. Adding in videos explaining the process, and the differences between the many editions that have been released thanks to the series being public domain.
I haven't fully explored this project, but felt it's worth leaving a link for in this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLydQRjWSfL5fPF9VsYJtotWgKILTx9fZB
Thanks for the link. I knew the later editions had restored the colour to make it stand out more and vibrant, but didn't know about the other minor details.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 25 Feb 2021, 02:45
The new Superman and Lois TV show paid homage to Fleischer's Superman.
https://youtu.be/GGm1jyZpk7E
I see the Boy Scout/Donner purists praising this scene as "everything Superman should be", and how the costume shows the trunks can still work in film and TV. I don't think many of them have seen the Fleischer shorts, because Superman in those cartoons was too busy brawling with criminals, monsters, cultists and WWII Axis soldiers. He had no time to smile and make cheesy comments.
I would love to see a 1940s-esque Superman film in the style of Fleischer. Too bad the costume was wasted on Tyler Hoechlin.
What does saying the shorts still work have to do with how the Fleischer version acted, in the shorts?
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 25 Feb 2021, 06:24
I recently found a youtube channel where there was a 'restoration' of the Max Fleischer cartoons of the 1940s. Adding in videos explaining the process, and the differences between the many editions that have been released thanks to the series being public domain.
I haven't fully explored this project, but felt it's worth leaving a link for in this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLydQRjWSfL5fPF9VsYJtotWgKILTx9fZB
Thankfully DC was still is putting out their definitive version of the cartoon from the original negatives; it's flawed in some ways, but most public domain works lack a definitive source in the midst of a sea of low quality transfers.
The thing about public domain works is that most will simply languish once the original studio loses the rights, since I guess the studio sees too much competition to make it worth their while to maintain and release these works; the early Universal Monster movies come to mind where these films can be easily accessible, but look like trash. There is no way Universal would put the same care and attention into those that they put into the overhauled restorations of Dracula and Frankenstein.
I think Superman may have escaped this fate simply due to the ongoing success of the brand. You can say the DVD restoration isn't perfect, but you can't deny this is the best these have looked since the original filmstock. But is there enough interest for an HD scan of the film to be profitable? That's questionable (if they already did scan it, HBO Max is probably the best platform).
The minor changes to the Superman cartoon are comparable to the 4K scan of the original Batman movies where they switched out the original soundtrack. Might be a dealbreaker for some. I wouldn't go as far as to compare it to the Star Wars films, which had a lot more changes to them.
Various people working in animation and comics still owe their imagination to Fleisher's Superman to this day.
Quote"Even back in my first jobs in animation, we studied those," said Kevin Altieri, a writer/producer of Batman: The Animated Series, which established the template for DC animation back in the 1990s. "When I came to Warner Bros. and I saw the demo that Bruce [Timm] had done incorpoating all those tricks and techniques, I said, �?wait, we're doing Fleischer Supermans!' and they said, yep, that's the mandate from above."
"The first time I saw a Max Fleischer Superman cartoon, well, to say it changed my life is both accurate and an understatement," said John Semper, who produced the award-winning Spider-Man: The Animated Series in the mid-1990s, among other things in his 40 year career. "It was the personification of everything I wanted to see in an animated cartoon, everything that I wanted to someday make in animated cartoon form. It was just brilliant and stunning. It's a rare instance of something being done that just is perfect right at the moment."
"These Superman cartoons had the smooth-flowing, higher-quality look and feel of the great Disney cartoons," said comics and animation historian Arlen Schumer, who produced a webinar on the series. "I later learned that was the result of the Fleischers' combination of painstakingly hand-painted cel animation and rotoscoping (animating over live action film). So you could feel Superman straining to exercise his super-strength, struggling against bigger opponents; you could feel his physical effort as he literally leapt tall buildings in a single bound. And he flew like we imagined he flew in our dreams, both gracefully and dynamically. He was grounded in our recognizable reality. He was relatable."
"As someone who's worked decades on superhero cartoons, discovering the Fleischer Superman animations in my youth had a profound effect on me," said Shannon Eric Denton, a writer/producer who has worked on animated series featuring DC and Marvel characters. "Even though I started in comics, I quickly transitioned to animation where I think I've been chasing that high Max and his Fleischer Studios gave me all those many years ago."
"These things were just rare gems," said Semper. "I couldn't even believe that they existed. So imagine my little kid mind sitting in front of a TV screen, black and white. And suddenly one of these magnificent Max Flesher Superman cartoons comes on, and it was just like something from another planet. It was hard to even understand how they got made."
"They influenced everyone. Disney, Miyazaki, everything that's come out of Warner Bros. and DC since the 1990s," said Altieri.
https://web.archive.org/web/20230523004220/https://www.forbes.com/sites/robsalkowitz/2023/05/18/these-superman-cartoons-changed-animation-now-they-look-better-than-ever/?sh=76df10fa435e
I found this on social media: Fifty Who Made DC Great - the official book that celebrated DC's 50th anniversary back in 1985 - acknowledging Fleischer Studios' contributions to making Superman a pop culture icon.
(https://i.imgur.com/6K1Qwej.jpg)