Warner Media has entered the streaming market by introducing HBO Max, which is scheduled to debut in the US this May. Furthermore, they have announced that the streaming platform will have a new film label called Warner Max, and from what I gather, it's supposed to be producing streaming-only films equivalent to Netflix-only productions. What caught some Snyder cut fans' attention is the following paragraph from the media release:
Quote
Warner Bros and New Line Cinema will continue to create mid-budget fare for traditional theatrical distribution, while Warner Max will create a new pipeline for filmmakers looking to make a particular type of film or connect with a specific audience that would be best reached in the streaming environment.
https://www.ibc.org/create-and-produce/warner-bros-and-hbo-max-launch-feature-production-lab/5437.article
Of course, it doesn't mean the cut would get released under the Warner Max label. But if we were to read into the idea that anything shown on HBO Max will cater to a "specific audience" then I see no reason why the 214 minute long film should be withheld from the public any longer.
With that said, I don't expect Warner Butchers will walk the talk. Besides, after having to think about it further, I reckon the Snyder cut debuting on HBO Max in the U.S. would still be a backwards decision because the streaming service will not debut in the overseas market until next year. That would mean millions of fans around the world would be missing out. Why undermine momentum and potential profit by excluding the global fanbase who've been wanting to see this cut for years?
I say just f***ing distribute the film on home video, and be done with it. But given what a pathetic, corrupt excuse of a corporation have been recently they can't even bring themselves to do that. They'd rather stay silent instead of addressing JL fans who've contacted them via letters, social media to plead them to get the damn film out.
Disgusting company.
On a lot less agitated note, I found this nice fan event on Vero, where fans are submitting their posters and fan art for JL. This is endorsed by Snyder himself, who promises to award film props and memorabilia to give away to the lucky fan with the poster that "captures the spirit of the film". It's a cool initiative, and definitely builds up demand for the film.
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/CKP-3wjwrqqft5r9SwPK55KL
https://vero.co/zsjlfanposters
I've seen some fans reading into these cryptic posts on a JL advertisement on the official HBO Max Instagram page.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQyk5ONXsAAidL_?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQzCoegVAAEmp8Y?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQzCoeiU8AAtQGo?format=jpg&name=medium)
I wouldn't think much of it though. If they haven't announced "ZACK SNYDER'S JUSTICE LEAGUE" as distinctively as possible, then it goes to show they'll be showing that Whedon cut. Which will be a slap in the face to everybody who campaigned for the real film to come out. But since we're dealing with anything involved with Warner Butchers, it's hardly a surprise.
Meanwhile, now that the event for the Snyder cut fan posters has closed, here are some of my favourites.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQX7bSuUwAAxMJ6?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQXGMyIXYAAJ1SO?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQSOvCDXkAA2vyY?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQSBlnUWkAAvtve?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQNSUHWWoAIp945?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQM4eXxXUAIYrdb?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EP-a7ENWkAAF-e2?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EP913bgXkAAQvgX?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPtSJ15W4AA3m5R?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPtSJ13W4AEE9Vg?format=jpg&name=medium)
Great efforts by the fans. (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)
That fan art competition has drawn to close, and Snyder took the time during his birthday to announce this art work as the winner. It was designed by a fan who goes by the name MightyPegasus on Twitter.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESD0JWSW4AIvN2Z?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Quote from: Zack Snyder
Thank you all again for all the amazing submissions and also the Birthday wishes it is all much appreciated...As for the poster winner well for me this is it can't wait to hang it on the wall in my office
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/xJ-L4mhvGFCkqGHL2K395nCW
Well deserved, I liked how he incorporated all the characters from the first four DCEU films accompanied by Darkseid's figure.
A day before announcing the winner of the fan art competition, Snyder revealed what the prize would be. And it's getting people speculating heavily.
(https://i.imgur.com/XUyVLdY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lTrEPbs.jpg)
Quote from: Zack Snyder
So this is the Prize...it's the Slate we used everyday on the set of JL and on the back something more
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/BkS-fWRqrcz1BzW2nWGkcKzZ
For more speculation, read here: https://www.newsweek.com/zack-snyders-justice-league-reveal-hints-new-scenes-superman-batman-martian-manhunter-1489913
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 2 Mar 2020, 12:16
That fan art competition has drawn to close, and Snyder took the time during his birthday to announce this art work as the winner. It was designed by a fan who goes by the name MightyPegasus on Twitter.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESD0JWSW4AIvN2Z?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Quote from: Zack Snyder
Thank you all again for all the amazing submissions and also the Birthday wishes it is all much appreciated...As for the poster winner well for me this is it can't wait to hang it on the wall in my office
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/xJ-L4mhvGFCkqGHL2K395nCW
Well deserved, I liked how he incorporated all the characters from the first four DCEU films accompanied by Darkseid's figure.
A day before announcing the winner of the fan art competition, Snyder revealed what the prize would be. And it's getting people speculating heavily.
(https://i.imgur.com/XUyVLdY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lTrEPbs.jpg)
Quote from: Zack Snyder
So this is the Prize...it's the Slate we used everyday on the set of JL and on the back something more
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/BkS-fWRqrcz1BzW2nWGkcKzZ
For more speculation, read here: https://www.newsweek.com/zack-snyders-justice-league-reveal-hints-new-scenes-superman-batman-martian-manhunter-1489913
Considering the coronavirus craziness we're all living under right now, I can't imagine that the Snyder cut is coming any time soon.
Prove me wrong, WB. Please!
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 17 Mar 2020, 19:33
Considering the coronavirus craziness we're all living under right now, I can't imagine that the Snyder cut is coming any time soon.
Prove me wrong, WB. Please!
Well according to TDK, you shouldn't bother to have any hope. "AnYoNe wHo ThInKs SnYdEr CuT wIlL cOmE sOoN is DeLuSiOnAl, wB iS gOiNg ToWaRdS aNoThEr DiReCtIoN". Right, let's just be good little mindless consumers and accept anything Warner Butchers put out, while dragging directors through the mud by hacking up their work. How pitiful, even more so in dismissing the cast and crew supporting for the film's release. Some fan.
Anyway, putting that little outburst aside, I saw this screenshot of the official AT&T Twitter account posting a winking Rihanna GIF at a couple of fans demanding the release of the film a few weeks ago. The tweet itself has since been deleted.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ES0LQ74UcAAgJFw?format=jpg&name=large)
Either this is mocking, or it's teasing the support for the film for its inevitable release. If it's the latter then it shows AT&T is starting to stand by its DCEU content, by advertising BvS as "a classic of all classics" in its latest AT&T TV commercial. Positive advertising of BvS wouldn't have happened a year or so ago.
https://twitter.com/boomborks/status/1241307313488539648
In case anyone else doesn't remember, AT&T is the parent company of Warner.
None of this will matter if the film doesn't come out though, Coronavirus or not. Considering that lots of films such as The Way Back and Bloodshot are heading to digital VOD prematurely because of the current pandemic, I reckon it would make perfect sense to release the real JL right now.
But of course, it appears those in charge of Warner and above are completely braindead. If not, morally bankrupt.
Fans logged on Twitter to flood the official HBO Max Twitter page demanding the film to be screened on the new streaming service.
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2494857/zack-snyders-fans-flood-hbo-maxs-release-date-tweet-with-calls-for-the-snyder-cut
According to a user called Alessandro, who co-organised the hashtag to trend that day, the #ReleaseTheSnyderCut hashtag trended with over 50,000 tweets. Last week, a new hashtag #ZackSnydersJusticeLeague reached over 60,000 on Twitter.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWNsbgDWkAEXmOn?format=jpg&name=medium)
https://twitter.com/raveryn/status/1252964623663403008
Meanwhile, HBO Max aren't shying away from promoting JL characters.
Such as this social media post:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWOBIiFUMAA9rlW?format=jpg&name=small)
https://twitter.com/hbomax/status/1252990550090944512
And apparently they have this large billboard advertisement, featuring DCEU's Batman and Superman.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWP6P4wWoAIJTHs?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Of course, none of this means Snyder's JL will be shown on HBO Max. In fact, I don't believe it will, simply because HBO Max won't be available internationally till next year, as I already mentioned. If the powers that be want to capitalise on consumer demand, I highly doubt they'd want to stream the film to another competitor like Netflix.
Nonetheless, Snyder himself has given hope that the film will see the light of day, as he liked a couple of these posts on Vero.
(https://i.imgur.com/mdZTIS6.png)
https://vero.co/omerkamal/BRt-dsJXhqg6hGzPkGXSJrkr
(https://i.imgur.com/ZXYmP5T.png)
https://vero.co/willrowlands/DP-QCp2bb4nmXMDZrHt9BQp6
While we're on the subject of streaming, Warner's parent company AT&T appears to prioritise HBO Max more than ever thanks to this Godforsaken pandemic. But then again, even without the Coronavirus, streaming seemed to have posed a threat to the cinema market for some time, so maybe this is the nature of business taking course.
https://deadline.com/2020/04/warnermedia-rethinking-theatrical-model-john-stankey-not-expecting-snap-back-recovery-by-exhibitors-1202914751/
Something we should be aware of is that the Snyder cut definitely exists but it most likely isn't finished yet. It stands to reason that a lot of post-production still needs to be done. And it's completely reasonable that Snyder might want some reshoots.
All of that is to say that there could be a pretty hefty price tag with completing the film. And obviously, time is of the essence. Technically, the cast has probably already aged out. There will already be shaky continuity with the existing footage. But the time, logistics and money involved in this are major factors.
Thus, if anybody thinks this is a simple matter of streaming the Snyder cut, disappointment will be their only companion. The film still needs a lot of work, I would guess.
I do believe there is some work needed to polish the film as a 100% completed product, but I'm not so sure if there is a lot to do.
A year or so ago, Snyder was adamant that the cut was done, but it was up to Warner to release it.
https://youtu.be/9ZguNcj2_lI
Since then, and as you already know, he has shared lots of screenshots of his film on Vero, indicating that the film is more complete than people think. Except for the Martian Manhunter reveal at the end of a scene with Lois and Martha.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGHmYbxW4AY3ANm.jpg:large)
Unsurprisingly, he says there is some work he'd like to do to get it completed to his liking.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRN5dfv1FpopTFLCMCV0pqRMr6-qvRs6OJoOuPqxm8BqTyVaIkh&usqp=CAU)
There's a lot of unsubstantiated gossip of Snyder had finished his compromised cut and now he wants to edit it to resemble his original vision of JL Part 1. We can take that with a grain of salt, but any additional filming would seem further impossible now that Hollywood has gone into lockdown like everywhere else, thanks to the pandemic.
Besides, unless the new WarnerMax production company is looking to revive Snyder's original five part story arc as exclusive content for HBO Max, I don't think filming the Martian Manhunter sequence is worth it.
Back on topic: it appears the official HBO Max PR Twitter page liked a couple of tweets reporting the movement's demand for the cut.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWUY8srU4AANTSB?format=jpg&name=large)
https://mobile.twitter.com/nexuspong/status/1253435520610267138
I had a look at the likes section on HBO Max PR's Twitter page, and yes, the screenshot is legitimate. Time will tell if they were trolling, or teasing the film's eventual release.
If we're lead to believe this guy, Netflix offered to buy the streaming rights for the Snyder cut...and Warner Butchers said no.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmG7oUHx7VU
I can see the logic for this story. Snyder appears to have a business relationship with Netflix. Not only will his new film Army of the Dead be shown on the streaming service, I heard he is working on an anime series with Jay Oliva. I could imagine Netflix wanting to capitalise on the hype. I can also imagine Warner Butchers rejecting the offer, knowing the people running the studio are assholes. On the other hand, if HBO Max PR's Twitter likes a couple of articles bombarding its new streaming service to release the film, you wonder if there is some plan in motion.
With all that being said, I'm going to take what the guy says with a grain of salt. He can say he has sources, but so can anyone else. It doesn't make it true without proof.
In the meantime, Kevin Smith spoke to ComicBook.com's Instagram account for an interview, and he wishes that not only would Snyder's film get released, he'd like to see his planned story arc continue in some fashion. I'm not a fan of Smith, and he clearly doesn't have all of his facts straight. But at least he's showing some support.
https://twitter.com/RTSnyderCut/status/1256391950619598848
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 17 Mar 2020, 19:33
Considering the coronavirus craziness we're all living under right now, I can't imagine that the Snyder cut is coming any time soon.
Prove me wrong, WB. Please!
I'm revisiting this again. If we're lead to believe this blog, Snyder's cut is supposedly delayed by the pandemic.
https://theculturednerd.org/2020/03/exclusive-zack-snyders-justice-league-is-coming-but-covid-19-has-delayed-it/
This is the same blog that claimed Netflix made a bid to stream the film in the previous post I shared, as well as the same blog that highlighting Geoff Johns's mismanagement which Snyder liked on Vero.
It could be bullsh*t. I'm not a big fan of unnamed sources.
But now there's another speculation that Snyder had screened his cut to DC executives back in February.
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2496356/zack-snyder-reportedly-screened-his-snyder-cut-of-justice-league-what-does-that-mean
Nonetheless, let's hope we see it sooner rather than later.
Interesting.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYPygvFXsAQCu2y?format=jpg&name=medium)
https://vero.co/gersonbarrera/nTs-RC8BNkKdqBBtXQJDXhTv
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 23 Apr 2020, 17:46
Something we should be aware of is that the Snyder cut definitely exists but it most likely isn't finished yet. It stands to reason that a lot of post-production still needs to be done. And it's completely reasonable that Snyder might want some reshoots.
All of that is to say that there could be a pretty hefty price tag with completing the film. And obviously, time is of the essence. Technically, the cast has probably already aged out. There will already be shaky continuity with the existing footage. But the time, logistics and money involved in this are major factors.
Thus, if anybody thinks this is a simple matter of streaming the Snyder cut, disappointment will be their only companion. The film still needs a lot of work, I would guess.
If the studio is biting, and if anything is going to be released (a documentary, a rough cut, or whatever Snyder has) I think it has to be RIGHT NOW in the midst of a once in a lifetime event, which is the shutdown of the entire world. I mean, how often does something like that happen? Otherwise the moment will have gone, and 'the powers that be' will move on and keep their forward focus, which they otherwise would've had. Countries are starting to open up and resume to some sense of normality. There's a demand for new content as there is a very short supply of it. Filming for 2021 movies has been put on hold. If anything happens, and hopefully it does, it would be a perfect storm of desperation and luck. But I'd take it.
Remember when all the wannabe expert talking heads on YouTube beclowned themselves saying the cut doesn't exist?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYvD3fXslnI
I don't know if these guys are reliable, but they claim:
Warner Bros did not want to ever release the film.
Something changed this week.
It could be people higher up than DC and Warner Bros who forced it - AT&T who owns the studio.
Chaos can bring opportunity. A global pandemic that results in a huge demand for stay at home streaming was probably one of the very few scenarios in which I could see this possibility raised, and even then it would be a borderline call. Otherwise I think SnyderLeague would be locked up forever. If it doesn't get announced soon I really feel the window is closed.
I'm not setting myself up for disappointment - I wouldn't be surprised if there's a twist in all this. Let's see what happens.
https://fandomwire.com/zack-snyders-snyder-cut-is-now-happening/
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 19 May 2020, 03:34
I don't know if these guys are reliable, but they claim:
Warner Bros did not want to ever release the film.
Something changed this week.
It could be people higher up than DC and Warner Bros who forced it - AT&T who owns the studio.
Chaos can bring opportunity. A global pandemic that results in a huge demand for stay at home streaming was probably one of the very few scenarios in which I could see this possibility raised, and even then it would be a borderline call. Otherwise I think SnyderLeague would be locked up forever. If it doesn't get announced soon I really feel the window is closed.
I'm not setting myself up for disappointment - I wouldn't be surprised if there's a twist in all this. Let's see what happens.
https://fandomwire.com/zack-snyders-snyder-cut-is-now-happening/
I don't know what else it could be except streaming. Theatrical release seems implausible right now and Blu-Ray seems even less likely.
I think you're right. I think the pandemic angle is the only explanation that makes sense based on what we know. All the studios are losing money hand over fist right now. AT&T could want to release the movie on the grounds that it's got a built-in audience with pent up demand. It's probably the closest thing to a safe bet they have right now. Releasing the Snyder cut may be the only thing they have that will generate any money right now.
I'll believe the Snyder cut is happening once an official announcement comes. But this seems like way too much smoke for there to be no fire.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 19 May 2020, 03:51
I think you're right. I think the pandemic angle is the only explanation that makes sense based on what we know. All the studios are losing money hand over fist right now. AT&T could want to release the movie on the grounds that it's got a built-in audience with pent up demand. It's probably the closest thing to a safe bet they have right now. Releasing the Snyder cut may be the only thing they have that will generate any money right now.
It makes the most sense. The world has
stopped, meaning there isn't forward momentum with Pattinson's project or any live action project at the moment. We're all watching old content now, making it a moot point. But as said, things are starting to open up gradually, so if it's going to happen it would have to be soon. Before all the other wheels start moving towards the future again.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 19 May 2020, 03:51
I'll believe the Snyder cut is happening once an official announcement comes. But this seems like way too much smoke for there to be no fire.
If we're lead to believe the online chatter on Twitter, lots of people involved in the industry - including the dickhead bloggers who trashed the DCEU for the last couple of years - are speculating a deal to get the film out there is nearly done.
Like you, I'll see it to believe it. Because if this ordeal continues any further, and Warner won't address the situation at all...oh Jesus, they're really trying to hurt their brand.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 19 May 2020, 03:59It makes the most sense. The world has stopped, meaning there isn't forward momentum with Pattinson's project or any live action project at the moment. We're all watching old content now, making it a moot point. But as said, things are starting to open up gradually, so if it's going to happen it would have to be soon. Before all the other wheels start moving towards the future again.
They do have some leeway. Coming back online necessarily has to be a gradual process. Esp with movie theaters.
Based on exactly nothing, I am betting that movie theaters will blow the dust off the box office by showing old catalog titles. It's just too risky to release new high budget blockbusters right now when nobody knows wtf the market even looks like right now. Whereas screening old stuff like existing MCU films or Harry Potter films or stuff like that is a lot safer. Showing proven hits with measurable fanbases might be the safest way to get things going again. Personally, I'd love to see the LOTR trilogy in theaters again.
I think it might be a full year before we start seeing exclusively new content being released to theaters. So there's room for AT&T/WB/DCE/whotfever to operate right now with little or no meaningful competition. But after May 2021, prospects like the Snyder cut become risky again. If they start the process right now, they can probably get the Snyder cut into some kind of shape where releasing it to streaming is a viable plan.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 19 May 2020, 04:25Because if this ordeal continues any further, and Warner won't address the situation at all...oh Jesus, they're really trying to hurt their brand.
That's the razor's edge with releasing the Snyder cut, I think. Because we fans are willing to accept a brokered peace if the Snyder cut is released in a form that's close enough to Snyder's vision to pass muster.
BUT. I think (again, this is based on nothing) that if the Snyder cut is released and is as big of a hackjob as Superman II: The Donner Cut, this really will be war. Because there will only be one Snyder cut. Nobody is getting a second bite at that apple. The Snyder cut can't be done on the cheap. Somebody will have to spend the money necessary to do the job right. If it has Arrowverse-caliber CGI, there will be no forgiveness and no peace.
Somebody involved with this process had better count the cost. Somebody had better be ready to kick everything that even resembles an ass with completing the movie. Because fans will suffer fools badly when it comes to the Snyder cut. Nothing less than amazing will be acceptable at this point.
We're in no mood to compromise. We did that once already; never again.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 19 May 2020, 04:43
But after May 2021, prospects like the Snyder cut become risky again. If they start the process right now, they can probably get the Snyder cut into some kind of shape where releasing it to streaming is a viable plan.
That definition of the 'soon' window is logical.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 19 May 2020, 04:43
That's the razor's edge with releasing the Snyder cut, I think. Because we fans are willing to accept a brokered peace if the Snyder cut is released in a form that's close enough to Snyder's vision to pass muster.
BUT. I think (again, this is based on nothing) that if the Snyder cut is released and is as big of a hackjob as Superman II: The Donner Cut, this really will be war. Because there will only be one Snyder cut. Nobody is getting a second bite at that apple. The Snyder cut can't be done on the cheap. Somebody will have to spend the money necessary to do the job right. If it has Arrowverse-caliber CGI, there will be no forgiveness and no peace.
Somebody involved with this process had better count the cost. Somebody had better be ready to kick everything that even resembles an ass with completing the movie. Because fans will suffer fools badly when it comes to the Snyder cut. Nothing less than amazing will be acceptable at this point.
We're in no mood to compromise. We did that once already; never again.
If a deal is about to be made, I hope Snyder gets to have the final say on the final product and he's happy with it, before putting it out there. As I mentioned many times before, Snyder has said he'd like to polish the film to satisfy his liking, even though he has insisted the film is otherwise done.
But thanks to this catastrophic pandemic, I'm not really sure if we have a choice in avoiding a compromise.
As it's already mentioned in this thread, Hollywood, like every other industry in the world, is in lockdown. Any hopes that Snyder had to do additional filming is not going happen thanks to COVID-19. If it means, say, Harry Lennix will have to miss out as Martian Manhunter, I really hate to say it, but so be it. At this stage, we don't know when COVID-19 will end and things will return to some form of normality. I'd hate to think this pandemic will last a couple of more years (doubtful, but let's say so for argument's sake) and the film is still getting delayed, because it's still not safe to fully restore to what was originally envisioned.
Only Snyder and the higher-ups know what the situation is, let's hope they make the right call.
Furthermore re: COVID-19, I've been reading a lot speculation how film and TV in Hollywood won't be the same again, like a lot of industries out there. The stuff I've read ranges how ancillary jobs such as Assistant Directors will be obsolete, to actors will have to follow crazy guidelines to finish their own makeup and costume fitting. It's insane. Whether that's true or not, expect a lot of people who put in hard work behind the scenes to be impacted horribly because of this bastard virus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETXlPYo57x0
MOS watch party with Snyder is happening on Wednesday, May 20. It's been moved ahead, sooner than originally planned. Snyder cut announcement made during the watch party?
^Damn it, I posted the Vero link on the BvS sub-forum but you already beat me to it.
At the end of the BvS commentary, he jokingly said they should make a sequel to the movie before the livestream got cut off. This whole thing really does sound like it's planned.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 19 May 2020, 12:48Snyder cut announcement made during the watch party?
This has been spotted in LA:
(https://i.ibb.co/RyG1XZz/9-D7-E65-BB-44-E8-4411-B5-B9-6-E858-C0-D9085.jpg)
Good find, TDK!
More and more articles are making the rounds but they're mostly just perpetuating existing rumors.
What I find interesting tho is how none of this is getting denied. Snyder could sign on to Vero right now and put the kibosh on this entire thing. If I was in his shoes and the fans were expecting a huge announcement during my MOS watch party when I knew nothing like that was coming, I would make it my business to emphasize on social media that no such announcement is forthcoming.
That's not happening tho. As far as I know, it's been total radio silence from Snyder. As might be expected if he is sitting on The Big News.
I could be wrong but this is starting to look pretty legit, fam.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 19 May 2020, 22:55
I could be wrong but this is starting to look pretty legit, fam.
I have a good vibe, but still keeping a lid on things for karma purposes. But indeed, streaming is the way to go. As the intent of this article says, SnyderLeague would put HBO Max in an unparalleled position:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/travisbean/2020/05/19/zack-snyders-justice-league-would-elevate-hbo-max-to-an-unparalleled-position/#6898f1005086
They also make a good point about a three hour type runtime being a non issue for home viewing. I don't know if they'd later release it on Blu-ray, but I'm 100% positive someone would make a copy of the stream anyway. If this actually happens, I think the studio has been strongarmed. Affleck is done but this would give him a sense of closure I didn't think would arrive (or at least wiping 50 years off the wait time), turning a perceived flop into a masterpiece. And truly on equal par with Keaton. Thanks, corona!
Snyder uploaded a video of Momoa declaring his support yet again.
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/z-6kMkBSf7fFQcBK8dnsSFxC
It's very coordinated. If there isn't any good news coming tomorrow then the backlash against Warner is going to be severe.
Snyder just shared this at the end of his MOS Watch Party on Vero:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYettISXkAIJNAO?format=jpg&name=large)
Finally...it's happening. Too bad we have to wait for another year though.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 19 May 2020, 23:05
Thanks, corona!
Don't be a f***ing idiot. Thank the fans who made this happen. I know I will.
I reassert that there is a risk here that if the production quality isn't A-level then we're back to square zero. In fact, we're probably even further back than that because there won't be any do-overs this time.
Snyder runs a tight ship. And he's kind of famous for wringing every last bit of value from every penny of production budget he's given. So maybe my concerns here are all for naught.
I'm just saying I want the best possible presentation for the film. And maybe I'm concerned about nothing.
Either way, good job to the fans who championed this. I was an early skeptic about the specifics of the existence of a Snyder cut and I still don't know how much work needs to be done to finish it. I supported releasing the Snyder cut but I was hardly a loud voice demanding it. The credit goes to the fans who were loudly demanding it.
Congratulations to the fans for getting the ball across the line. And congratulations to Zack Snyder for never giving up on his vision.
PS- The very fact that he supports the release of his cut and wants to finish the job himself, I think, reinforces my black helicopter conspiracy theory that he didn't leave the production voluntarily. But I guess we'll never know for sure.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 20 May 2020, 18:37
PS- The very fact that he supports the release of his cut and wants to finish the job himself, I think, reinforces my black helicopter conspiracy theory that he didn't leave the production voluntarily. But I guess we'll never know for sure.
Good article here that gives some insight:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/justice-league-snyder-cut-plans-revealed-it-will-be-an-new-thing-1295102
I'm confident he was pushed out. Snyder isn't going to trash the studio in such an announcement where he gets what he wants, but reading between the lines you can see that corona has played a part in supercharging the project. I wouldn't be surprised if after Snyder did the studio pitch in February nothing much happened at that stage. They heard him out, and he outlined what would be required to complete his vision.
They say executives were pumped, but it seems the commitment only came after corona struck, with March and April being key. Snyder had to bite his tongue after the course correction, so I imagine WB are having to do some of that now. HBO executives being involved would have to play a part in that.
As Deborah Snyder says, right now is the right time as visual effects houses are running out of work. SnyderLeague has work to be done, but it's manageable. Agreeing 20 odd million for added filming or funding an entire film? They have something to build off here at least. Snyder had leverage. I maintain that money would've been harder to get before now.
In any case it's happening and via streaming, meaning we'll end up with the real whole thing. Even more than we received with BvS's UE. Which is awesome. I would prefer a full length movie without cliffhangers, but wouldn't mind an episodic format either if that's what Snyder goes with. The production quality of the extra filming quality should fit in with the other material fine, I think. I'm not concerned about that, especially as it's vital for the project.
Lest I be accused of carpetbagging, this was more or less my position since 2018:
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 15 Jul 2018, 00:01
Oliva is probably in a better position to speak intelligently about a Snyder cut.
But, based on what has been made public, I would imagine calling this thing the "Snyder cut" gives it a level of credibility it may not deserve. My understanding is that Snyder's version needed some reshoots and a complete score by Junkie XL. Probably completed visual effects as well.
Put simply, the movie isn't finished. And it's probably not possible anymore to finish it to Snyder's satisfaction.
I would love to be wrong about all of this, believe me. But I'm thinking that Whedon's hackjob mess is the best we can hope for.
Zack, if you're reading this, I am BEGGING YOU to prove me wrong because I don't want Whedon to have the last word on this film.
Further news eventually clarified things from the standpoint that all scenes needed were filmed. So more work was always needed but it just needed funding. So yes, there was always a real
Snyder cut. But I honestly believed it would never happen. If not for COVID, it may never have happened.
Something else that's come to light relates to rumors of just how much reshooting Whedon did. Apparently it was quite a lot. Of the Whedon cut, people are suggesting that at most 30% of the movie is Snyder's. It could be as low as 15% by some reckonings.
The SC basically amounts to a different movie. If they do the job right then the fans are in for one hell of a treat!
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 20 May 2020, 19:53
So yes, there was always a real Snyder cut. But I honestly believed it would never happen. If not for COVID, it may never have happened.
Indeed.
I have no doubt whatsoever Snyder spoke to WB at times over the years about his cut. It's just a matter if the studio was genuinely receptive during those times as the article suggests. In my honest and humble opinion, I think they would've been respectful, but distanced. Revisionist history plays a part in my view to justify the release now, which all agree is unprecedented.
That small detail of WB getting in touch with Snyder (truth stretch) does a LOT for all parties as it still maintains the historical integrity of their prior meetings. I know business and it's very nuanced stuff, and I'm okay with that dance being played out like that publicly. If that's what it takes - and it is, then so be it.
SnyderLeague will indeed be a brand new film. I think one of the best things from what I've heard over the years is how it demonstrates the true meaning behind YOU CAN'T SAVE THE WORLD ALONE. Showing why a team is now needed. It's not just Superman showing up at the end and making everyone redundant. Everyone has their strengths and become better people as a result of the partnership.
And really, after this announcement there's no reason why it shouldn't come to Blu-ray eventually.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 20 May 2020, 19:33
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 20 May 2020, 18:37
PS- The very fact that he supports the release of his cut and wants to finish the job himself, I think, reinforces my black helicopter conspiracy theory that he didn't leave the production voluntarily. But I guess we'll never know for sure.
Good article here that gives some insight:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/justice-league-snyder-cut-plans-revealed-it-will-be-an-new-thing-1295102
I'm confident he was pushed out. Snyder isn't going to trash the studio in such an announcement where he gets what he wants, but reading between the lines you can see that corona has played a part in supercharging the project. I wouldn't be surprised if after Snyder did the studio pitch in February nothing much happened at that stage. They heard him out, and he outlined what would be required to complete his vision.
They say executives were pumped, but it seems the commitment only came after corona struck, with March and April being key. Snyder had to bite his tongue after the course correction, so I imagine WB are having to do some of that now. HBO executives being involved would have to play a part in that.
As Deborah Snyder says, right now is the right time as visual effects houses are running out of work. SnyderLeague has work to be done, but it's manageable. Agreeing 20 odd million for added filming or funding an entire film? They have something to build off here at least. Snyder had leverage. I maintain that money would've been harder to get before now.
In any case it's happening and via streaming, meaning we'll end up with the real whole thing. Even more than we received with BvS's UE. Which is awesome. I would prefer a full length movie without cliffhangers, but wouldn't mind an episodic format either if that's what Snyder goes with. The production quality of the extra filming quality should fit in with the other material fine, I think. I'm not concerned about that, especially as it's vital for the project.
"In January 2017, he had what he considered his optimal version of Justice League, almost four hours long, although he knew it was something the studio would not release."
Now that's interesting. Because it's common for directors to put all the footage together in an assembly that was never intended by anybody to be even a rough draft of a cut. They just put the stuff all together to figure out what they even have.
Is that what the four hour cut was? The article outright says that four hours was Snyder's optimal cut and I just find that... odd.
But supposing he did originally want a four hour cut... well, there are lots of ways to go about doing that. Releasing a four hour cut, releasing the film in separate two-hour halves, releasing the film with act breaks, etc. I don't mind watching a four-hour JLSC. And the streaming format certainly permits huge runtimes like that.
But it's also quite possible that the four-hour thing was an assembly rather than a rough draft.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 20 May 2020, 20:02
But supposing he did originally want a four hour cut... well, there are lots of ways to go about doing that. Releasing a four hour cut, releasing the film in separate two-hour halves, releasing the film with act breaks, etc. I don't mind watching a four-hour JLSC. And the streaming format certainly permits huge runtimes like that.
But it's also quite possible that the four-hour thing was an assembly rather than a rough draft.
Two seperate halves would be the only way to get four hours released in theatres. It's a risky thing to do, especially in terms of having to edit large components down for mainstream audiences, but I think it's just the way Snyder does things. He's done extended cuts before, and like Watchmen or BvS: UE, they find life on home video as deeper cuts. That's probably always at the back of his mind. Go for 2.5 hours or thereabouts and save the rest for later. I've written copy for publication and knew it was too long, but imagination and enthusiasm dictates keep expanding anyway.
HO-LY sh*t!
I'm so happy right now! I wasn't even a big "ReleaseTheSnyderCut" guy, because I never thought it would really happen, but hot damn, what great news. Looks like I will definitely get HBO Max when it releases.
So badass. So happy. So excited!
Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 20 May 2020, 22:24
HO-LY sh*t!
I'm so happy right now! I wasn't even a big "ReleaseTheSnyderCut" guy, because I never thought it would really happen, but hot damn, what great news. Looks like I will definitely get HBO Max when it releases.
So badass. So happy. So excited!
Seems to be mostly audio and CGI work that's needed, which is even better in terms of maintaining the integrity of what Snyder already has in the can. Actors have aged since then, where I'm coming from. But not that much if actors are still needed to fill in parts. Mix that in with the four hour ballpark runtime and this is absolutely not a Superman II situation that's trying to make the best of what was available.
I have a BvS Batfleck poster, Batfleck statue, a die cast BvS Batmobile from Jada Toys and a Batfleck sublimated shirt. The HBO release is huge in terms of Affleck and Cavill's legacies. Those items feel like they have even more meaning now.
It's going to be two great films like Keaton, with ample scene time, rather than one and another which featured him but not his true soul.
lol, I'm more excited about this than the new Batman movie.
And I just saw this. lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYvD3fXslnI&feature=emb_title
Why Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE Is Bad News For Everyone (Except Zack Snyder)
https://videomultiverse.com/zack-snyders-justice-league-is-bad-news
The denial, revisionism and lies in this article are innumerable.
The fans won. Simple as that. For a long time now, Hollywood has been forcing what audiences "need" rather than what audiences actually want. Justice League shows that sometimes, fans can get their way. That's scary AF to some people.
This is the key part for me:
QuoteWill this Justice League be good? Judging by his prior body of work, doubtful.
I remember people saying the Ultimate Edition of BvS wouldn't improve the movie, when it was always going to. Some
still say the movie isn't any better. Which doesn't make sense because existing plot points are made clearer. We'll probably hear similar commentary around the quality of SnyderLeague. To that author, I retort that the anti-Snyder crowd is as much of a cult as he claims his fans to be.
Also:
Snyder's version isn't new. The Whedon version was new.
Snyder is allowed to post anything he wants, as he shot the film to begin with.
The public are free to protest or say whatever they want, so I don't see the problem there.
Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 20 May 2020, 22:41
lol, I'm more excited about this than the new Batman movie.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4xYVpFtY/s-l400.jpg)
This announcement was a long time coming. It's nothing short of outstanding to see that Snyder's Justice League prevailed.
"You Can't Save The World Alone"
Boy, the fans have really embodied that philosophy.
Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 20 May 2020, 23:01
And I just saw this. lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYvD3fXslnI&feature=emb_title
Haha, colors already beat you to that video earlier in the thread. But yes, Film Gob is great at compiling videos of know-it-all bloggers making fools of themselves.
Here is another couple of good videos he made in the last few days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS74PQ6NKf0
https://youtu.be/QzLMivOnM2g
A press release was published on WarnerMedia's site yesterday, shortly after the news broke.
Quote
After global passionate fan calls to action and the #ReleaseTheSnyderCut movement, HBO Max and Warner Bros. Pictures announced today that it will exclusively world premiere Zack Snyder's director's cut of the Warner Bros. Pictures/DC feature film Justice League in 2021. Snyder surprised fans with the news this morning during a live online commentary of his film Man of Steel with Henry Cavill.
#ReleaseTheSnyderCut first became a passionate rallying social media cry among fans in 2017 and has not let up. From countless press articles and hundreds of thousands of social media mentions, it became a powerful global movement among cinephiles and comic book fans.
"I want to thank HBO Max and Warner Brothers for this brave gesture of supporting artists and allowing their true visions to be realized. Also a special thank you to all of those involved in the SnyderCut movement for making this a reality," said Snyder.
"Since I got here 14 months ago, the chant to #ReleaseTheSnyderCut has been a daily drumbeat in our offices and inboxes. Well, the fans have asked, and we are thrilled to finally deliver. At the end of the day, it really is all about them and we are beyond excited to be able to release Zack's ultimate vision for this film in 2021. This could never have happened if it weren't for the hard work and combined efforts of the teams at HBO Max and Warner Bros. Pictures," said Robert Greenblatt, Chairman, Warner Media Entertainment and Direct-To-Consumer.
"When Zack and Debbie shared the extraordinary vision of where Zack wanted to take Justice League, my team and our counterparts at Warner Bros. took it as a mission to solve the many issues that stood in the way," said Kevin Reilly, Chief Content Officer at HBO Max, President, TNT, TBS and truTV. "Thanks to the partnership at Warner Bros. and the relentless pursuit of the entire WarnerMax team we are able to deliver this incredibly exciting moment for Zack, the fans and HBO Max."
"Thanks to the efforts of a lot people, we're excited to bring fans this highly anticipated version of Justice League," said Toby Emmerich, Chairman, Warner Bros. Pictures Group. "This feels like the right time to share Zack's story, and HBO Max is the perfect platform for it. We're glad the creative planets aligned, allowing us to #ReleaseTheSnyderCut."
Source: https://pressroom.warnermediagroup.com/us/media-release/hbo-max-releasethesnydercut?language_content_entity=en
Of course, Toby Emmerich will never publicly apologise for lying about the reshoots. No matter, as long as WB doesn't interfere with finishing the story that Snyder had planned, we should all be should be happy.
Meanwhile, new WarnerMedia CEO Jason Kilar paid tribute to the fanbase on Twitter:
Quote from: Jason Kilar
I (and the @WarnerMedia team) have been so impressed - and moved - by the passion exhibited by the #releasethesyndercut fan base. Stories matter, storytellers matter. Am thrilled for @ZackSnyder and the team that will be bringing this story to all of us as fans. What a great day.
https://twitter.com/jasonkilar/status/1263169213557911562
Stories matter, storytellers matter. I'm not a marketing expert, but that seems like a great line to build trust between creative talent and customer relations. If WarnerMedia keeps it up, I guess I can stop berating them. Hopefully this means they live up to their words as a "filmmaker driven studio", instead of trying to emulate the current MCU trend.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 21 May 2020, 02:20
"You Can't Save The World Alone"
Boy, the fans have really embodied that philosophy.
100%.
If anybody from the movement is reading this,
THANK YOU. (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Deborah Snyder expressed her gratitude to the fans, following the news.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYhzOXuXYAAA2gQ?format=jpg&name=large)
As I said before, it kinda sucks we have to wait for another year, but A) there's still work that needs to be done to satisfy the intended vision then so be it, and B) in hindsight, it's for the best business-wise. HBO Max is opening in America next week, but international distribution won't be ready till next year. Once it's open, I'll subscribe immediately.
Meanwhile, Joe Manganiello hinted there was more to his Deathstroke cameo than what we saw in Josstice League.
(https://i.imgur.com/OxUmKWb.jpg)
I've got a rough idea what it might mean, but I'm curious to read other guesses first.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYeyKovU4AAJ3Bo?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYex9HGUMAA5DPj?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYeyYWwVAAAtbeJ?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages6.fanpop.com%2Fimage%2Fphotos%2F43300000%2FZack-Snyder-s-Justice-League-Poster-Ray-Fisher-as-Cyborg-justice-league-movie-43366091-1080-1350.jpg&hash=e0a39ddda2ca26b15c7d3b23e164be77ee4a31e9)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages6.fanpop.com%2Fimage%2Fphotos%2F43300000%2FZack-Snyder-s-Justice-League-Poster-Jason-Momoa-as-Aquaman-justice-league-movie-43366088-1080-1350.jpg&hash=8989c6ec1e3e4e7b13cc9a27b8fa1cc6182f1483)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages6.fanpop.com%2Fimage%2Fphotos%2F43300000%2FZack-Snyder-s-Justice-League-Poster-Ezra-Miller-as-The-Flash-justice-league-movie-43366089-1080-1350.jpg&hash=61db490b7abb62dfde4465a8e63d92c01d5ea108)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYelaoqVAAAC9aQ?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYe2rCZVAAEf09p?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 21 May 2020, 12:16
Meanwhile, Joe Manganiello hinted there was more to his Deathstroke cameo than what we saw in Josstice League.
(https://i.imgur.com/OxUmKWb.jpg)
I've got a rough idea what it might mean, but I'm curious to read other guesses first.
He was going to be the villain in the solo film, so I imagine it's something related to that. Whether or not Batfleck actually appears in the flesh is another matter. Deathstroke receiving a contract from Lex is my guess at this point. Lex put hits out on people several times in BvS, and he has added beef with Batman for being placed inside Arkham. And of course helping revive Superman.
Something I'm curious to know is if Snyder addressed Clark's secret identity at all. I'm thinking he would have, but I haven't seen anything concrete around it. I did read a rumor that Lois introduces Perry White to "Clark Kent a.k.a Superman", which would be a brief explanation as to Snyder's intent. I think it could be possible, especially as an bookend to Man of Steel's ending.
Laurence didn't appear at all during the original JL shoot from what I gather, but the scene could be set up in a way that he wasn't needed, or he did appear but only for a very brief cameo. We'll know next year.
Obviously, one of the big questions everybody has is just how complete Snyder's cut was before he exited the film. Putting aside the misinformation that's been intentionally spread around, it's clear that a ton of stuff was completed for the SC. But how much? And what specifically?
Well, picture lock for one thing. Originally, I assumed that Snyder didn't have a locked picture but Screen Rant did some detective work. And they discovered that the only way Snyder could've made certain public statements and social media posts is if he was working with a locked picture.
https://screenrant.com/justice-league-zack-snyder-cut-finished-vfx-editing
This is not post-hoc wishful thinking either. The article is dated 2018, long before yesterday's announcement. The writer makes a very compelling argument behind why Snyder was making so much progress when all parties involved acknowledged that cuts would have to be made. It's definitely worth a read. It gets slightly technical but it isn't too bad.
Junkie XL has a complete soundtrack all ready to go (good riddance John Williams and hello Zimmer of Steel theme) so I think that gives a good hint about the status of Snyder's film. He is on the record saying: "The full score is still there. It's a really great score, and it's just there. It never goes away. We'll see what happens in the future, you know?"
Hopefully there's an official release of the score on iTunes at some point. As for the movie, from a business point of view, you'd imagine HBO will want to keep it on there for a decent length of time as a subscription hook. Which is absolutely understandable. Much like The Mandalorian on Disney Plus. But once enough time has has passed, it moves to Blu-ray.
Thinking aloud generally now - Affleck trained his ass off for Justice League and had that same BvS hunger. You can see that in the Snyder/Whedon comparison shots. Then imagine being called back later and hearing 'we need you to re-film everything again with new scenes'. It would be like writing a long essay and having that work deleted, and I know how that feels. Knowing all you did was for nought, and in Ben's case, knowing worldwide audiences would only be seeing the new content you've yet to film. Thus you wear tags such as 'he looked disinterested and overweight'.
Before the HBO announcement I was convinced Cavill would never play Superman again. But this changes everything. I think there's a chance, and I've seen articles here and there somewhat recently alluding to that, with the Supergirl idea maybe being shelved.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 21 May 2020, 21:35
Junkie XL has a complete soundtrack all ready to go (good riddance John Williams and hello Zimmer of Steel theme) so I think that gives a good hint about the status of Snyder's film. He is on the record saying: "The full score is still there. It's a really great score, and it's just there. It never goes away. We'll see what happens in the future, you know?"
Hopefully there's an official release of the score on iTunes at some point. As for the movie, from a business point of view, you'd imagine HBO will want to keep it on there for a decent length of time as a subscription hook. Which is absolutely understandable. Much like The Mandalorian on Disney Plus. But once enough time has has passed, it moves to Blu-ray.
Thinking aloud generally now - Affleck trained his ass off for Justice League and had that same BvS hunger. You can see that in the Snyder/Whedon comparison shots. Then imagine being called back later and hearing 'we need you to re-film everything again with new scenes'. It would be like writing a long essay and having that work deleted, and I know how that feels. Knowing all you did was for nought, and in Ben's case, knowing worldwide audiences would only be seeing the new content you've yet to film. Thus you wear tags such as 'he looked disinterested and overweight'.
Before the HBO announcement I was convinced Cavill would never play Superman again. But this changes everything. I think there's a chance, and I've seen articles here and there somewhat recently alluding to that, with the Supergirl idea maybe being shelved.
Mmm...
I mean, who can say how things will be a year from now? But at the same time, I wonder that the SC won't be the start of some type of DCEU renaissance. For starters, nobody knows when the next Marvel film is coming. It could be a year away, or even longer. For seconders... Endgame. I maintain that movie could be the last stop for a lot of fans. "It was a great ride but it's over now". That type of thing. Sure, the movies will continue and sure, people will keep seeing them. But the MCU has peaked, I'm thinking.
There's an opening now for Snyder. Or at least, there could be.
Does that mean getting the band back together? I honestly don't know how that would even be possible at this point. Or if it's even desirable. But the SC will probably show audiences a depth and sophistication they're not readily accustomed to from the MCU when the MCU may still be out of commission.
Something else is
the critics. Guys, get ready. You thought things were bad before? The critics are mostly access-journalism shills who enjoy crapping on fans, calling everything and everybody "toxic" and all that jazz. And the fans just won. Snyder, their old enemy, is the beneficiary.
The knives will be out for the SC. Don't be shocked if it scores 23% on Rotten Tomatoes from the critics. They'll be out for blood this time, I think. I hope I'm wrong. But I look at how gas-lit even some "fans" are ("AT&T is giving in to cyber-bullying!") and I can only imagine how savage the critics will be when the SC comes along.
Level up, boys and girls. Cuz I think it'll get pretty ugly before this thing is over.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 21 May 2020, 23:04
Does that mean getting the band back together?
They've signed up a whole new Batman cast for a new series, but even then I wouldn't necessarily rule anything out now. Would Affleck come back, even if just for cameos? He is on the record about health fears and such, but he's also very loyal to Snyder. IF Affleck came back, would the studio be willing to have two Batman actors on the big screen concurrently? They were willing to do JOKER, so it's feasible. At the very least, Ben gets the Snyder cut out there. I think the door is open a lot more with Cavill. His films could be more standalone in nature. The Snyder cut helps wake up the Superman brand, and I'm starting to feel the fire of that fandom again.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 21 May 2020, 23:04
But the SC will probably show audiences a depth and sophistication they're not readily accustomed to from the MCU when the MCU may still be out of commission.
Abso-funkin-lutely. The level of detail is insane, as the BvS influences videos on Youtube demonstrate.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 21 May 2020, 23:04
Something else is the critics. Guys, get ready. You thought things were bad before? The critics are mostly access-journalism shills who enjoy crapping on fans, calling everything and everybody "toxic" and all that jazz. And the fans just won. Snyder, their old enemy, is the beneficiary.
The knives will be out for the SC. Don't be shocked if it scores 23% on Rotten Tomatoes from the critics. They'll be out for blood this time, I think. I hope I'm wrong. But I look at how gas-lit even some "fans" are ("AT&T is giving in to cyber-bullying!") and I can only imagine how savage the critics will be when the SC comes along.
I'm positive that will happen. I've always maintained most of the criticism directed at Snyder is because of a personal grudge.
Here is the promotional trailer containing highlights from the last half hour of that MOS Watch Party.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Dvxu6C3mI
Some of the JL actors have recorded their reaction to the good news.
Here is Ben Affleck saying thanks to the fans for their support for Snyder's JL; footage was originally taken from Kevin Smith's show.
https://youtu.be/3GrxCD0pSAs
Here is Jason Momoa expressing his excitement following the news.
https://youtu.be/ikqMbtRkY44
Finally, here is Ray Fisher paying an emotional tribute to the fans for their support, particularly to those who donated money to charity to raise suicide awareness.
https://youtu.be/BW90t4pF7YU
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 21 May 2020, 23:04
Something else is the critics. Guys, get ready. You thought things were bad before? The critics are mostly access-journalism shills who enjoy crapping on fans, calling everything and everybody "toxic" and all that jazz. And the fans just won. Snyder, their old enemy, is the beneficiary.
The knives will be out for the SC. Don't be shocked if it scores 23% on Rotten Tomatoes from the critics. They'll be out for blood this time, I think. I hope I'm wrong. But I look at how gas-lit even some "fans" are ("AT&T is giving in to cyber-bullying!") and I can only imagine how savage the critics will be when the SC comes along.
Level up, boys and girls. Cuz I think it'll get pretty ugly before this thing is over.
The bloggers already started sharpening their knives. Following the announcement, the scumbags at Rotten Tomatoes tweeted their ranking of Snyder's films by highlighting the meaningless "rotten" scores. One of the films they highlighted was Josstice League. Laughable. And of course those access media shills at Collider and CBR spun their little narrative that Snyder cut fans "bullied" the studio into caving into their demands.
But even more laughable was somebody who had the nerve to suggest that Snyder's fulfilling his vision of Justice League is disrespectful of Whedon's work. I'm not kidding, I read somebody saying this. I can't even be bothered to deconstruct out the total idiocy of such a statement.
I'll tell you what's bullying conduct: critics and detractors such as the deadbeat editor-in-chief at RT declaring everyone who worked on BvS should be punched in the face. Subhuman trash who made vile "jokes" at Snyder's expense over his daughter's tragic suicide. Comic book writers who celebrated when Snyder left (or likely removed) because of the terrible circumstances. Bloggers who took every opportunity to slander the fans as "white male dudebros (wtf does that mean?), alt-right incels" or any baseless slander they could think of. And of course, there's the baseless accusations of MOS and BvS as well as Snyder himself as full of objectivist propaganda.
These pathetic wastes of human flesh project their own failures for one thing, and make no mistake about it: they enjoyed the idea of manipulating the studio and controlling the narrative with their hyperbole. And yes, make no mistake, they're PISSED OFF that the fans took that control away from them.
As long as WarnerMedia and AT&T maintain their new approach, these pieces of trash can stay mad. At the end of the day, product demand - and dare I say, compassion - wins.
In the meantime, the movement showed their gratitude with a banner in the sky.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYkMArEWsAE5JKx?format=jpg&name=900x900)
I'm a bit fed up with getting smeared as some alt right klan guy or whatever. All I ever wanted was to watch a movie. I never wanted to hurt anybody or end someone's career or anything.
I felt let down by Whedon's work on the film. That doesn't make me a criminal; I'm just a jerk with an opinion and an iPhone. That's it! The critics, shills and all the rest possess truly dark and ugly souls for slandering normies and civilian fans for the temerity of expressing an opinion.
I shall put this delicately. But one reason that crowdfunded comics do so well is because a lot of those creators understand that when comic pros mock, harass and humiliate fans, those fans vote with their wallets. So the crowdfunders create a sort of breezy, light, party atmosphere where everything is fun and welcoming. Surprise surprise, those comics sell a mint.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 22 May 2020, 13:49
I'm a bit fed up with getting smeared as some alt right klan guy or whatever. All I ever wanted was to watch a movie. I never wanted to hurt anybody or end someone's career or anything.
Unfortunately, it's the majority of geek fandom these days. I was called a raving sexist multiple times for not liking Captain Marvel, I've been called a racist multiple times now for many different things, and of course, when it comes to Snyder, I've been called a sexist "Snyder Bro", and I'm not even a huge Snyder advocate. He's not even close to being my favorite director, but just
liking his movies will get you labeled some crazy stuff.
I don't know what happened, but it's been crazy since around 2013. It invaded standup and videogames heavily, too. You just have to laugh at the woke weirdos, and do you r best not to fall on landmines or set off woke-nukes. But it seems to be inevitable, lol.
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 22 May 2020, 21:53
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 22 May 2020, 13:49
I'm a bit fed up with getting smeared as some alt right klan guy or whatever. All I ever wanted was to watch a movie. I never wanted to hurt anybody or end someone's career or anything.
Unfortunately, it's the majority of geek fandom these days. I was called a raving sexist multiple times for not liking Captain Marvel, I've been called a racist multiple times now for many different things, and of course, when it comes to Snyder, I've been called a sexist "Snyder Bro", and I'm not even a huge Snyder advocate. He's not even close to being my favorite director, but just liking his movies will get you labeled some crazy stuff.
I don't know what happened, but it's been crazy since around 2013. It invaded standup and videogames heavily, too. You just have to laugh at the woke weirdos, and do you r best not to fall on landmines or set off woke-nukes. But it seems to be inevitable, lol.
It can be very depressing because it's so prevalent in society. Most people don't even know it but they don't even have their own opinions. They just accept whatever they're told on 'the news' and don't look any deeper. Even after they've been mislead they still don't pivot their thinking, and continue trusting those sources. News is the narrative and nothing but the narrative.
If you tell the zombies what is really going on YOU get looked at like the crazy person. The problem is this simple: the political persuasion of the overwhelming majority of actors, writers and singers is left wing. And the positions of those people are validated as 'the social norm' by the news media, who are also overwhelmingly left wing. Even one conservative news outlet isn't acceptable to them.
I honestly don't have that much issue with someone's personal politics, even if I thoroughly disagree with their ideas. It's when those ideas seep into their mainstream work, making derogatory statements about the world and my place in it. These same people complain about propaganda, but they are the biggest pushers of it. We are simply responding to what they're putting out. I didn't get the memo where we all have to agree. And because we need to, apparently, but don't, the war erupts.
I could add more reasons why this has happened to the world, but will refrain from doing so.
From the Snyder cut, everyone will greatly benefit. Cavill the most, as JL will give him a true trilogy. JL was something I had filed away and forgotten about, but now it's the centre of the DC universe again. The CGI mouth saga was just pure embarrassment and shame.
So much to look forward to in all aspects of the film. The warehouse actually being a warehouse, and not pretending it's the batcave. Bruce talking about the knightmare. Attaching the cannon to the Batmobile - bringing Keaton's mechanic work from BR to mind. Seeing the battle damaged armor suit. Batfleck wanting to die to atone for his prior conduct. And so it goes on. I'm also hoping there's more from the Knightcrawler, which I've also felt to be a cool vehicle, and completely wasted in Josstice League.
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 22 May 2020, 21:53
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 22 May 2020, 13:49
I'm a bit fed up with getting smeared as some alt right klan guy or whatever. All I ever wanted was to watch a movie. I never wanted to hurt anybody or end someone's career or anything.
Unfortunately, it's the majority of geek fandom these days. I was called a raving sexist multiple times for not liking Captain Marvel, I've been called a racist multiple times now for many different things, and of course, when it comes to Snyder, I've been called a sexist "Snyder Bro", and I'm not even a huge Snyder advocate. He's not even close to being my favorite director, but just liking his movies will get you labeled some crazy stuff.
I don't know what happened, but it's been crazy since around 2013. It invaded standup and videogames heavily, too. You just have to laugh at the woke weirdos, and do you r best not to fall on landmines or set off woke-nukes. But it seems to be inevitable, lol.
These woke wankers not only slander fans, they even use hyperbole as a dirty tactic to control what movies THEY think people should see. As you said, you got called sexist for not liking Captain Marvel, and I've seen people getting accused of being toxic males for liking - get this - Alita: Battle Angel.
Another example is Joaquin Phoenix's Joker. I know I said I wasn't interested in that movie, but even I could see their speculations how "it could inspire incel violence" was just their way of deterring people from watching it. It's pure bullsh*t. These critics ought to put their money where their mouth is and start all boycotting films featuring psychopathic characters, if they're so worried about how they could inspire "the wrong message".
All the rhetoric they use is just a form of censorship. Thankfully, WarnerMedia and A&T appeared to have learned their lesson and started listening to the fanbase. Not the wrong people that helped derailed JL and the wider DCEU in the first place.
I've found this great video that describes the idiocy of certain blogs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ7VWhkDXxk
And here is this article that deconstructs the twisted logic behind certain sites using every baseless negative term to condemn Snyder cut fans. As this analysis wisely puts it, these blogs are only showing their contempt for the cast and crew who supported the release of the film.
https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/05/22/screenrant-collider-and-vulture-attack-fans-and-actors-after-zack-snyder-and-henry-cavill-announce-snyder-cut-for-hbo-max/
But have no fear, everyone. As long as you see the film and make it a success, BE HAPPY! We will continue to show these deadbeat gatekeepers they don't matter.
Looking back at my earlier posts in this thread, you can tell that AT&T and HBO Max were hinting the announcement.
AT&T alone is maintaining fan engagement with their replies on Twitter.
Here are two images of multiple screenshots I collected. Hint: if the site has scaled them and you can't see them, copy and paste them in Paint for a better look.
(https://i.imgur.com/Ch3lNLY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2IQoSXX.jpg)
A massive turnaround for the better.
So I'm not well versed in everything about the Snyder Cut, but I remember hearing rumors about Green Lantern. Was that true, or do we know?
Quote from: Travesty on Sat, 23 May 2020, 23:16
So I'm not well versed in everything about the Snyder Cut, but I remember hearing rumors about Green Lantern. Was that true, or do we know?
It hasn't been clarified quite yet, but an actor called Sam Benjamin has hinted he was cast as GL.
https://thefanboyseo.com/2019/11/29/we-almost-had-a-green-lantern-in-zack-snyders-justice-league/
https://youtu.be/qGUUMIGuxGU
Quote from: Travesty on Sat, 23 May 2020, 23:16
So I'm not well versed in everything about the Snyder Cut, but I remember hearing rumors about Green Lantern. Was that true, or do we know?
There was talk of Bruce being visited by Kilowog and Tomar-Re in a credits scene, but I'm unsure about the status of that.
Snyder confirmed a while ago the ending at Wayne Manor was shot by him. From a pure thematic sense I think it's a great idea as it represents Bruce's soul being healed - a vacant place being filled with a new family after being neglected for so long. I think that alone gives Batfleck a sense of closure (though AT&T's Twitter is being particularly playful on future possibilities).
The military influence which was key part of MoS and BvS returning is something I'm keen on seeing. There's meant to be a subplot involving them, plus the military apparently firing upon Superman as he's resurrected. There's also storyboard of Superman recreating his first flight from MoS which hopefully gets sliced in. Clark and Lois at the farm is also greatly needed for character development.
Circling back to critics, there's no doubt whatsoever what their game is. These two images below speak for themselves:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EY0k2VMXgAEuuu0?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYx7veHX0AcCbKA?format=jpg&name=small)
Midnight's Edge broadly assumes the editorial viewpoint of "We're not fans of Snyder's DCEU". But they always try to be fair to everyone and they still support releasing ZSJL for a variety of reasons. Their intel is usually pretty reliable too.
In this video, they get into some of the drama and nonsense with Snyder's work that even I never heard before. Worth watching at 1.25 or 1.5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXfRXF0dXG8
I gave the video and look, and he makes good points. All the reasons why WB would never release the film all still exist, and there were absolutely rational reasons for people to think that way. Going back in time opens up a can of worms for them in a number of areas.
IF the studio got in touch with Snyder I'm convinced it was under the strong direction of AT&T. I still can't imagine WB initiating this. If AT&T are waiting to see how the film is received on HBO Max, and it's a roaring success, things will really start to get interesting. For example, if Cavil gets another solo film, do they keep him in the black suit? Snyder said Superman wore the black suit throughout JL, and this includes the shirt rip at the end. The suit would've remained for the next couple of films before the red and blue returned.
It was clever from Snyder's POV to share this information, as people know when something is a deviation and when it's not. Which would put AT&T in an interesting situation if they did embrace expanding this particular universe and staying in the good books with fans.
Harry Lennix wrote this on Twitter:
Quote
Re: Justice League and the Snyder cut... Things don't Just happen--things happen Just.
https://mobile.twitter.com/HarryJLennix/status/1263905707037876224
I was initially skeptical about the possibility of restoring Lennix in ZSJL, but now I'm suddenly feeling comfortable. If Snyder has the budget and freedom to do it, then he should go for it.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 27 May 2020, 04:23
I gave the video and look, and he makes good points. All the reasons why WB would never release the film all still exist, and there were absolutely rational reasons for people to think that way. Going back in time opens up a can of worms for them in a number of areas.
IF the studio got in touch with Snyder I'm convinced it was under the strong direction of AT&T. I still can't imagine WB initiating this. If AT&T are waiting to see how the film is received on HBO Max, and it's a roaring success, things will really start to get interesting. For example, if Cavil gets another solo film, do they keep him in the black suit? Snyder said Superman wore the black suit throughout JL, and this includes the shirt rip at the end. The suit would've remained for the next couple of films before the red and blue returned.
It was clever from Snyder's POV to share this information, as people know when something is a deviation and when it's not. Which would put AT&T in an interesting situation if they did embrace expanding this particular universe and staying in the good books with fans.
If ZSJL takes off, I think it's reasonable to assume that at least one person (probably from AT&T) will suggest resurrecting "the Snyderverse" or whatever we're calling it. And if that happens, I believe that a power struggle will ensue. Anybody who knows anything about Hollywood is aware of the Judas Factor. Snyder has been bitten by that repeatedly while making his films, obviously. If somebody has a good thing going, it shouldn't come as a surprise to find out that somebody else stabs them in the back.
We're seeing an interesting cultural clash right now. AT&T is a corporation. They're from the world of high level business. That's the world that they understand. Whereas Hollywood is something akin to a religious cult where merit and talent take a backseat to other things. Ego, for example. Hollywood is not motivated by money. Never has been. But right now, AT&T The High Level Conglomerate looks like they're flexing on Warner Bros. The Religious Cult Member. Nobody's qualified to speculate on what happens next.
But whatever it is, it could transform Hollywood.
I think WB would be feeling uncomfortable, but they have no choice but to go along with it. From what I see, all the enthusiastic tweeting is coming from AT&T. WB have acknowledged it, of course, but nothing much more than that.
WB is seemingly holding on to the 'we wanted a two hour film and thus content needed to be cut and altered to accomodate that request' excuse. Saying three or more hours is too long for theatrical release was the perfect excuse to cut out large chunks of it. The studio got cold feet, plain and simple, and wanted to close as many hanging plot threads as possible, and soften as many perceived red flags as possible. The intention was to move away from Snyder's vision. It's the elephant in the room and WB knows that we know. You don't fork out millions in reshoots to change context if it's a simple runtime issue.
I have no doubt whatsoever that Snyder's JL was of the same high quality as BvS, but its biggest crime is being mature thematically, musically and visually. Among other things, the Russia finale sky was changed from blue to red, and the Superman resurrection changed from night to day. Another huge piece of evidence of WB's intent is signing up Elfman and scrapping the brilliant Junkie XL. It all lines up with an intent to make something more 'mainstream' and less intense.
The release film never felt like the true continuation of MoS or BvS because it wasn't.
I recall during the early days of filming it was being stressed how the tone was more hopeful. As the release date neared, with a large amount of content in the can, I have little doubt WB thought the tone still wasn't light enough. Superman wore the red and blue during filming, but it's apparent Snyder held out hope it would be changed to black in post production, which is apparently easy to do. He can do that now, thankfully. Superman was apparently meant to be tempted in the finale, and the League were all killed, before the Flash intervened. From three dimensional characterizations, credible threat levels and obstacle to overcome, to simplistic and safe. The fact the Parademons were changed to smell fear seems like projection on WB's part.
I'm sure the Reeves film will continue. I think it's somewhat possible Cavill gets a contract extension. Affleck has said he's not coming back, and I believe he means it right now. Michael Jordan truly meant to stay retired from basketball after taking up baseball, too. It depends on how hard HBO wants to flex. If they want Affleck back, and make a powerful approach to him, who really knows how he reacts to that. Like Jordan, I assume Affleck has a degree of pride that can be tapped in to. The theme of proving a point or finishing something. If he ever came back, I imagine it would be HBO Max exclusives rather than the big screen.
But right now, it's all about how ZSJL goes on HBO Max. If it does, a lot of options are in play. And I don't see what WB could really do about it if they disagreed. IMO they'd have to do what I think they're doing now.
Zack Snyder says thanks to the fans for their support in making his vision of JL possible.
https://www.twitter.com/ComicBookDebate/status/1265692418235645959
Vero - the social network where Snyder has been famous for interacting with fans and sharing images from his cut of the movie - has paid tribute to the fandom.
https://youtu.be/D-DH4Ov0vjc
Cavill may be coming back. What the hell is going on out there?!
https://variety.com/2020/film/news/henry-cavill-superman-movie-dc-comics-batman-justice-league-cameo-1234618227
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 28 May 2020, 02:52
Cavill may be coming back. What the hell is going on out there?!
https://variety.com/2020/film/news/henry-cavill-superman-movie-dc-comics-batman-justice-league-cameo-1234618227
Something beautiful.
I posted this only last month:
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 30 Apr 2020, 07:51
I don't find enjoyment in saying this but I think the future of the character is DOA unless something drastic happens.
Something
drastic needed to happen and it has happened, much sooner than I ever thought possible. If true, add this news in with the Snyder cut and Superman is going to be saved. He finally has a future again, rather than being frozen and unsure of what to do. The fans love Cavill and after all the pain and uncertainty they'll rally in support like never before. With three films in the can already, Cavill can really build an era here and leave the ghost of Reeve behind.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZCPTpqXQAAj-lT?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 27 May 2020, 22:24
Zack Snyder says thanks to the fans for their support in making his vision of JL possible.
https://www.twitter.com/ComicBookDebate/status/1265692418235645959
Somebody else brought to my attention that the Martian Manhunter logo is seen in the background. I guess this means J'onn J'onzz is confirmed.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZCmVNfWkAIIK0M?format=jpg&name=large)
As for Cavill possibly returning to play Superman on a more permanent basis...I'll wait and see. I've heard rumours those fools at WB want to make him appear in cameos for other films, without any plans for a Superman movie. That would be very stupid if true. But we'll see how we go in ZSJL.
I have only one request though...if Cavill were to play Superman again post-ZSJL, please don't turn him into another Reeve clone.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 28 May 2020, 11:00
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 27 May 2020, 22:24
Zack Snyder says thanks to the fans for their support in making his vision of JL possible.
https://www.twitter.com/ComicBookDebate/status/1265692418235645959
Somebody else brought to my attention that the Martian Manhunter logo is seen in the background. I guess this means J'onn J'onzz is confirmed.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZCmVNfWkAIIK0M?format=jpg&name=large)
As for Cavill possibly returning to play Superman on a more permanent basis...I'll wait and see. I've heard rumours those fools at WB want to make him appear in cameos for other films, without any plans for a Superman movie. That would be very stupid if true. But we'll see how we go in ZSJL.
I have only one request though...if Cavill were to play Superman again post-ZSJL, please don't turn him into another Reeve clone.
A gradual reintroduction might not be a bad thing. I'll keep an open mind about cameos.
Still, Cavill ain't getting any younger. If they want him to come back, they need to make it happen soon. And for right now, ZSJL will probably determine Cavill's fate. We're in a strange
hurry up and wait mode right now.
The 'cameo only' speculation does put a dampener on things. Ideally they'd splice Cavill somewhere into their current slate while preparing a solo film. I think I'd go for an appearance in Shazam 2, as there's already a hook for that to happen with the headless cameo. I like the emotional complexity of Snyder's Superman, however it wouldn't hurt to see him in a different context - mentoring a young kid about what it means to be a hero. The balance for me would be making sure his Superman didn't become generic. Placing him in peril or losing trust in one another at some point would help. If Superman's screen-time was somewhat substantial it would be enough to get me excited, and treat it as legitimate in his canon - as it stands I barely count Batfleck's appearance in Suicide Squad.
Can't say I'm a fan of simply peppering in Cavill's Superman with the upcoming slate of DC films. He's SUPERMAN. Not Nick Fury. The character, as well as Henry himself, deserve better than mere glorified cameos. If it's a extended guest star role, where it comes across as almost like a team up (especially if he's throwing down), then one runs the very real risk of whoever's movie being, not surprisingly, overshadowed by Superman. Imagine that.
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 29 May 2020, 23:19
Can't say I'm a fan of simply peppering in Cavill's Superman with the upcoming slate of DC films. He's SUPERMAN. Not Nick Fury. The character, as well as Henry himself, deserve better than mere glorified cameos. If it's a extended guest star role, where it comes across as almost like a team up (especially if he's throwing down), then one runs the very real risk of whoever's movie being, not surprisingly, overshadowed by Superman. Imagine that.
Every day you wake up celebrate the fact the Snyder cut is happening. Because in any other timeline it wouldn't be. The longer this plays out my original suspicions of WB ageing Cavill out of the role become stronger. It explains why they have no firm plans right now, because they had no intention of using him. Remember, apparently the original plans were to make a Supergirl film. Word around the campfire had been those plans were recently scrapped. My guess is AT&T told WB they want Cavill now, and they need to make it happen. Hence the small steps for cameos in films already in the pipeline.
Speaking about the Snyder cut budget, Warner Media Entertainment's Robert Greenblatt recently said "I wish it was just $30 million." Studios aren't keen on spending money if they don't have to, but read that quote to yourself and give it serious thought: does that sound like an enthusiastic man? It doesn't to me. How much money do you think that man would be willing to hand out for the Snyder cut? I'd say none, or very little. With a bigger budget than $30 million, AT&T can give us the whole hog Justice League, Martian Manhunter and all. We can say 'WB should have released the film three years ago and we wouldn't be in this situation'. And that's
absolutely true. However, seems to me WB never envisioned themselves being in the position.
From what I know about the Snyder cut, I think it still could've been released even if WB wanted to cut the cord afterwards. Sure, plot points are established and it was never meant to be the end. But the story always goes on in the comics because there's always something. Darkseid was going to be teased, but he remains on the other side of the boom tube. We just know he's there and they'll fight at some point in the future. And so on. The Wayne Manor round table scene gives things a sense of closure
in that moment. The film ends with the members going their seperate ways, but they will meet again. But right then, there's peace and work to be done at Wayne Manor in the downtime.
I must concur with TDK. If it doesn't come from ATT, it's suspect. We already have strong reason to believe that WB, DCE, WBM, etc, are all getting publicly overruled with the ZSJL announcement. Public statements like "I wish it was only $30 million" at this time are probably designed to do damage to the announcement.
I emphasize, ATT ain't Hollywood, fam. They know the politics of what they're doing and unlike Hollywood types, ATT don't give a good GD about some movie exec's ego. ZSJL is happening anyway. If ATT is run the way I think it is, at the very least Greenblatt is getting taken to the woodshed. He was lobbing artillery at ZSJL and I just can't imagine that ATT will let that slide.
I reiterate that ATT could be the greatest thing to ever happen to WB.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 1 Jun 2020, 01:28
Every day you wake up celebrate the fact the Snyder cut is happening. Because in any other timeline it wouldn't be. The longer this plays out my original suspicions of WB ageing Cavill out of the role become stronger. It explains why they have no firm plans right now, because they had no intention of using him. Remember, apparently the original plans were to make a Supergirl film. Word around the campfire had been those plans were recently scrapped. My guess is AT&T told WB they want Cavill now, and they need to make it happen. Hence the small steps for cameos in films already in the pipeline.
WB ever having firm plans, now, or ever. Is a catch 22 in of itself really. This is a company that seeks audience and more importantly, in their minds, critical acclaim for their work. Otherwise, history has proven that the panic button is always in wait, and WB certainly has no qualms about pressing it repeatedly in haste. Resulting in some truly bizarre decision making as a direct consequence.
Actually, with the news we keep getting down the pipeline since the announcement, it's coming across more and more like the scenario behind the scenes is that AT&T orders on what they want, and WB (because they really dont have much of a choice) begrudgingly are following the directions with no real warmth towards fans, or keenness in the decisions AT&T have, evidently, approved of. Which, in effect, does nothing to instill confidence in WB
creatively when it comes to the DCEU, and Henry's possible 'cameo' participation in said films.
We'll see what happens, but WB sincerely needs to start acting like more of, at the very least, a willing partner in this. If that means the ol chopping block getting set out, and some additional heads rolling? Great. The last thing we need going forward is a circumstance where the house continues to be clearly divided.
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 29 May 2020, 23:19
Can't say I'm a fan of simply peppering in Cavill's Superman with the upcoming slate of DC films. He's SUPERMAN. Not Nick Fury. The character, as well as Henry himself, deserve better than mere glorified cameos. If it's a extended guest star role, where it comes across as almost like a team up (especially if he's throwing down), then one runs the very real risk of whoever's movie being, not surprisingly, overshadowed by Superman. Imagine that.
As I said before, I don't like the idea of Cavill reprising his Superman role in cameos. But it just occurred to me why it might need to happen: Cavill could be tied up with doing The Witcher for Netflix. I've read somewhere production for the second season got halted because of the coronavirus, and Netflix had reportedly greenlit a third season.
The chances of a new Cavill Superman film are definitely greater than it was a few months ago. But it still might not be coming any time soon, unless Warner and Netflix can work together to give Cavill's schedule some breathing space.
The Cultured Nerd and their so called sources say this:
QuoteSources close to TCN have confirmed that HBO wants Ben Affleck, Jared Leto, and Joe Manganiello for an original Batman project. This follows reports last week that AT&T and WarnerMedia want Affleck to return as the Caped Crusader. Affleck is also in talks to return to the director's chair and to adapt his original script, with Zack Snyder producing.
The return of Affleck's Batman will either be a miniseries or a DC film on HBO Max, as Warner Bros. is committed to Matt Reeves' The Batman trilogy in theaters. Affleck's project will likely follow the intended storyline teased by the post-credit scene of Justice League or Zack Snyder's Justice League.
https://theculturednerd.org/2020/06/exclusive-hbo-wants-affleck-leto-and-manganiello-for-an-original-batman-project/
It's right to be sceptical, as I am. However I think the
concept of the story has merit. HBO Max needs original content. HBO Max may not just become the home of ZSJL, but eventually the home of DC film projects that died with Josstice League. This universe could be their flagship product.
Either way, it's imperative ZSJL is a roaring success.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 4 Jun 2020, 13:32
The Cultured Nerd and their so called sources say this:
QuoteSources close to TCN have confirmed that HBO wants Ben Affleck, Jared Leto, and Joe Manganiello for an original Batman project. This follows reports last week that AT&T and WarnerMedia want Affleck to return as the Caped Crusader. Affleck is also in talks to return to the director's chair and to adapt his original script, with Zack Snyder producing.
The return of Affleck's Batman will either be a miniseries or a DC film on HBO Max, as Warner Bros. is committed to Matt Reeves' The Batman trilogy in theaters. Affleck's project will likely follow the intended storyline teased by the post-credit scene of Justice League or Zack Snyder's Justice League.
https://theculturednerd.org/2020/06/exclusive-hbo-wants-affleck-leto-and-manganiello-for-an-original-batman-project/
It's right to be sceptical, as I am. However I think the concept of the story has merit. HBO Max needs original content. HBO Max may not just become the home of ZSJL, but eventually the home of DC film projects that died with Josstice League. This universe could be their flagship product.
Either way, it's imperative ZSJL is a roaring success.
I'm also deeply skeptical. This is precisely what I want to happen... which is why I'm so suspicious.
Another reason to be suspicious is the scale we're talking about. It'd be one thing if ZSJL came out right now and was a phenomenal runaway success. That would merit the ambition of the projects being talked about in that "report". But it sounds like too much too soon. I'm not buying that.
The most I'll consider is that Affleck is being wooed to come back in some capacity or another. A solo film? Cameos like the rumors about Cavill? Something else completely? But that's about the most I'm willing to contemplate right now. Everything else just seems a little too good (for me) to be true.
As always, take this with as many grains of salt as you wish. I recommend at least a tiny bit of skepticism for right now, to avoid getting your hopes up if nothing else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBZsgQc8S84
But I've been saying for weeks now that AT&T is a COMPANY. They're not part of the Hollywood cult. They may not have set out to be reformers but that's more or less the position they have. All they care about is merit, money and good business. So that report adds up a lot.
I reassert that AT&T entering Hollywood (esp right now) is probably the greatest existential threat that the other studios have ever faced. If AT&T makes content that's popular because it's what people want rather than, ahem, the reasons other content gets made, they're poised to the rule the roost in ways nobody has ever seen before.
If Marvel Studios isn't afraid yet, it's because they're not doing the calculus for all this.
A solo film is what the fans want. If AT&T have any power you'd think they'd make it happen. Based on nothing but a vibe and vague rumblings, I think at the very least the topic would have been raised. I'm telling myself even if nothing happens at least Cavill has the Snyder cut. But let's be honest, we want more and it's human nature to feel disappointment if nothing else comes afterwards.
Which leads me to ask you this colors: what plot would you choose for a hypothetical continuation?
I think Brainiac would be the best option. Zod and Doomsday are top tier villains, but I'd place Brainiac above them. Go with the biggest name villain you can in what would essentially be a free hit. Snyder focused on Zod's coup attempt, but there's no reason why Brainiac couldn't have shrunk Kandor moments before Krypton's destruction. And of course downloaded all the planet's data.
Cavill has expressed interest in For Tomorrow, and I think elements of that could be used. The church elements are very MoS in tone. Superman's loving reunion with Lois feels appropriate, and a new Fortress of Solitude location could be a good idea. Amy Adams' age is not a problem for me, but you'd hope they'd have the original cast all back together and don't leave things too long.
I sure hope this window of opportunity is taken with Superman. Cameos and a solo film would do wonders in creating excitement and momentum. Add in a videogame (which doesn't seem to be in development, unfortunately...but Rocksteady have lied before), and things would really shift for the better.
I assume the wait and see approach will persist until 2021. Treating ZSJL as a brand new Superman film, which it is, is the best way to retain sanity during that wait.
I don't really cotton to For Tomorrow. I suppose it can be riffed upon in a sequel to MOS but I don't especially care to see the full story adapted.
It's hard to guess what a sequel should be or do. Threats from Krypton seem to have been mined well enough for the time being. A specific plot escapes me right now. But Jor-El said again and again in MOS that Superman is meant to be the bridge between two worlds. He is to lead mankind into a better tomorrow. I'd like to see some steps taken in that direction in the sequel.
You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders.
I'd like to see a story which shows that process take a step or two forward.
So AT&T are rumored to be pushing for a MOS sequel?
Yeah, no sh*t they are.
You got one of the most marketable characters in history, an actor who's showed continued interest to return, and a fan base that's clamoring for it. Of course a sequel is being suggested. And rightly so.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 6 Jun 2020, 15:33
I don't really cotton to For Tomorrow. I suppose it can be riffed upon in a sequel to MOS but I don't especially care to see the full story adapted.
Agree. Amazing art, but nothing spectacular as a story.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 6 Jun 2020, 15:33
It's hard to guess what a sequel should be or do. Threats from Krypton seem to have been mined well enough for the time being.
I don't think that should be a problem. BvS's creation of Doomsday is similar in spirit to a character like Bizarro. At the core, Lex and the mainstream media were the villains. Brainiac arriving in a friendly manner, as opposed to Zod in MoS, could be a nice contrast to keep things fresh. Something like S:TAS, basically.
First teaser trailer is out. Its not much, but I'm glad we're finally getting to see Darkseid in motion.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/heat-vision/zack-snyder-unveils-first-teaser-his-justice-league-cut-1299193
To save everybody a completely unnecessary click:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPjF9sJcj4A
Good tease. Apart from a trailer, I'm also hoping we get:
1. The release date
2. The release format
I'm hoping for a movie rather than a miniseries, to fit in more cleanly with MoS and BvS.
But it's not something that's bothering me that much at all. The excitement of getting this movie at all outweighs anything.
With ZSJL, The Batman and surely the new Batman game announced at Fandome, we have a 2021 smorgasbord lined up. Contract rumblings about Cavill have been heard recently - as usual expect nothing, but such an event would be a good place to make an announcement.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 18 Jun 2020, 22:30
Good tease. Apart from a trailer, I'm also hoping we get:
1. The release date
2. The release format
I'm hoping for a movie rather than a miniseries, to fit in more cleanly with MoS and BvS.
But it's not something that's bothering me that much at all. The excitement of getting this movie at all outweighs anything.
With ZSJL, The Batman and surely the new Batman game announced at Fandome, we have a 2021 smorgasbord lined up. Contract rumblings about Cavill have been heard recently - as usual expect nothing, but such an event would be a good place to make an announcement.
I'm starting to wonder that there's some sort of civil war going on right now between AT&T and WB. A sort of one-sided civil war. There have been strategic leaks about The Batman (coincidentally right as production is about to resume), there's gossip about PC recasting for Superman (Michael B. Jordan or John Boyega, of course) and other things.
This is the passive-aggressive stuff one might do if one is trying to "subtly" undermine a rival. Except AT&T ain't no rival, they're the parent company and they probably don't go in for silly Hollywood nonsense like this.
It's like WB hasn't fully accepted the fact that they're somewhat servants of AT&T's will.
To your point tho, yeah, I would prefer a feature film format for ZSJL too. And for the same reasons, I might add. But that's probably the opposite of AT&T's business strategy. And whatever, more power to them for even having a business strategy in this topsy-turvy media environment. It's just a relief to be getting anything at all, frankly. We Snyderverse fans are not greedy.
I always thought Molasar's final form in Michael Mann's The Keep (1983) offered a good template for what a live action Darkseid should look like.
(https://diaboliquemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/keep4-620x269.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWMN5IZUAAAY_82.jpg:large)
(https://bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/The-Keep-e1551376554764.jpg)
I like to imagine this ^ is the eighties Darkseid that Reeve and Keaton might have faced off against.
Me as well.
On that note, that ties in with a concern I have about ZSJL. Very often, creators who don't understand what Darkseid is all about will show him duking it out with others. From the looks of things, ZSJL is headed in that direction.
And that's where I have to get off the bus. If you want to show Superman (or whoever) beating the snot out of an intergalactic despot, use Mongul. That's pretty much his entire reason for being anyway. He's a thug with ambitions far beyond his actual abilities.
But Darkseid ain't no brawler. He deals in blackmail, conspiracies, secrets, schemes, infiltration, agents of agents of agents, etc. He wouldn't sully himself with combat in 99% of cases. He has people on the "payroll" for that. Female Furies, parademons and other lackies. They can fight it out with the commoners while His Lordship Darkseid stays above the fray, away from those heroic peasants and beggars.
Darkseid's got 99 problems but one of them isn't beating somebody else up. If he must take direct action himself, well, that's what the Omega Effect is supposed to be about.
Darkseid is scary af. The mere presence of his astral projection was enough to bring the entire freaking Legion Of Super-Heroes to their knees that one time. He's the physical embodiment of darkness and evil. Simply being around him is terrifying and enough to give most people PTSD or something. He doesn't need to kick people around to dominate them.
But it looks like ZSJL will turn Darkseid into something like a brawler. And maybe that's inevitable if you're making a film. I wouldn't know. I'm just saying that there's a purity to Darkseid as a character that the vast majority of creators don't know a damn thing about and nearly always miss because they want to show Superman fighting it out with somebody.
Oddly enough, Smallville pretty well nailed it considering TV's limitations. Smallville's Darkseid was a fearsome presence kind of like Sauron in a way. He doesn't need to wreck shop on anybody for you to understand he means business.
I hope (but am not sure) that Snyder takes the character in that direction.
I can't say I disagree.
I view Darkseid as the DC universe's answer to the Dark Lord archetype common in fantasy fiction. The Dark Lord is meant to be the satanic 'big bad' who sits on his throne commanding the powers of darkness and sending his underlings to perform his evil bidding. Morgoth and Sauron would take to the battlefield once every few centuries, to establish their dominance and demonstrate the godlike strength and power at their disposal, but most of the time they lurked in their fortresses and sent their armies to do their dirty work. They
could stomp their enemies in one-on-one combat if they wanted to, as demonstrated when Morgoth slew Fingolfin, or when Sauron almost killed Isildur, but most of the time they chose not to. They were so powerful they didn't need to dirty their hands.
The same applies to the Dark Lords in Star Wars. One of the things that made the Sith so intimidating in the Original Trilogy was that they didn't resort to physical brutality to kill most of their victims. Vader only ever drew his lightsaber for Kenobi or Luke. Most of the time he simply killed his victims by Force choking them. During the Battle of Hoth, he calmly strolled through the Rebel base with his hands at his sides, as though he didn't care if the enemy soldiers shot at him. If they made that sequence today they'd show Vader deflecting laser bolts with his lightsaber, but the fact he didn't do that in 1980 was more intimidating. It meant he wasn't scared of traditional weapons, that ordinary soldiers posed no threat to him. Palpatine, the ultimate Dark Lord of the Sith, never even used a lightsaber in the OT. I always imagined he
could if he wanted to, but was so powerful he didn't have to.
Darkseid should be treated in a similar manner to these other characters. His power is so immense he can literally wipe someone from existence simply by looking at them. So I agree that he shouldn't be depicted as a brawler who regularly engages in punch ups. That said, I'd be ok with him being physically defeated in combat... eventually. The problem is, once you've shown him get physically overthrown, there's nowhere else to go with the character. He's no longer the apex predator he was before he was beaten. For this reason I'd be totally on board with them never showing him fight in the DCEU, or at least only showing him fight once at the very end of his story arc. The cinematic Skeletor in Masters of the Universe (1987) was heavily influenced by Darkseid, and I like how his use of power was depicted. He spends most of the film sitting on his thrown, annihilating people with his magic, and only finally engages in psychical combat during his showdown with He-Man at the end of the movie.
Nowadays every CBM has to end with a formulaic CG battle scene that drags on for forty minutes. But there were quite a few older CBMs in which the final confrontation was verbal or cerebral. This might be preceded by a battle scene, or a fight between the hero and one of the villain's henchmen, but the final showdown between the protagonist and their nemesis was not necessarily conducted with brute force. There's no fight at the end of Superman: The Movie or Superman III. The third act of Flash Gordon includes a spectacular battle scene, but the final confrontation between Flash and Ming is verbal. Batman Returns features a very brief fight between Batman and Penguin, but the remainder of the finale takes the form of dialogue. Other than Robin's skirmish with Two-Face, there's no major fight scene at the end of Batman Forever. The final confrontation with Two-Face at the end of The Dark Knight is also mostly verbal. Now don't get me wrong – I love a good fight scene, particularly when it's executed with practical effects and stunt work. But sometimes it's more interesting to see the central conflict resolved in a non-violent manner. And that's especially true if you have a central threat whose capabilities transcend brute force.
Perhaps this is the approach they should take with Darkseid. Have the heroes defeat his underlings in physical combat, but keep the final showdown with Uxas cerebral. I know they won't do this, since every DCEU film ends with a prolonged fight scene. Which is what most viewers want to see, I guess. But it would be a pleasant surprise if the writers came up with something more creative. I'm thinking of something like The Exorcist III (one of the most underrated horror films ever, btw) where the villain remains seated for the duration of the finale. And yet he wields unfathomable power and is somehow all the more terrifying for his lack of animation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikvIb3yM_4I
Imagine a showdown with Darkseid that played out like this. It could be Batman or Superman that's immobilised before his power and has to call on their intelligence to defeat him. A three or four minute long sequence like that would be far more intense and emotionally engaging than a thirty minute punch up. At least I think it would.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 20 Jun 2020, 21:59
Morgoth and Sauron would take to the battlefield once every few centuries, to establish their dominance and demonstrate the godlike strength and power at their disposal, but most of the time they lurked in their fortresses and sent their armies to do their dirty work. They could stomp their enemies in one-on-one combat if they wanted to, as demonstrated when Morgoth slew Fingolfin, or when Sauron almost killed Isildur, but most of the time they chose not to. They were so powerful they didn't need to dirty their hands.
At least in terms of ZSJL this seems to the the template. Snyder said the Darkseid we see in the teaser is a baby version, and when we see him many years later through the boomtube he's the fully formed beast. Darkseid could think I've stomped ants before, so I may as well stretch my legs and do it again. If we actually ever get to see that happen, of course.
At the time of writing, that teaser trailer has gained nearly 2 million views on YouTube and even trended in the top 30 videos. That's quite impressive for a trailer that was released only a couple of days ago.
It's that sort of hype that justifies HBO Max's confidence in ZSJL, as you can see when one of its key executives was asked about the announcement.
Quote
The Hollywood Reporter: You made a big splash with the announcement that you'd be releasing Zack Snyder's director's cut of Justice League. Should other filmmakers expect — or will they demand — the same treatment?
Sarah Aubrey [HBO Max's Head of Content]: I don't worry about it opening up a Pandora's box. It's not going to be one size fits all. [As for the Snyder cut,] I think it's already a success given the press we've had around it.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hbo-maxs-content-head-delaying-friends-reunion-taking-netflix-pandemic-1296765
Nonetheless, let's not rest on our laurels. It's still important for the fans from all over the world to make sure they subscribe to the relevant streaming service come release date. HBO Max will begin a roll out in most international markets, but I heard it won't be available in places like Canada and Australia, because other streaming services already have the contract to show all HBO/WB related content. The fans in those countries will need to make sure they know which service is screening ZSJL and subscribe.
Now that Snyder is given more money to finish the effects and additional photography, I wonder if he's going to change back to the original Steppenwolf design?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVgPzseWoAcrxeV.jpg)
So, has anybody else heard of the stupid rumour of Ryan Reynolds making a cameo appearance as GL? Albeit playing another version of Hal Jordan that's unconnected to the 2011 film.
I don't believe it, but I can see why some people would get excited by the idea. Reynolds starring in a third Deadpool seems unlikely under the PG-13 Marvel/Disney brand, and I've seen others daydreaming how him playing GL could be done justice this time (no pun intended).
It's still unlikely, in my opinion. I heard Reynolds said he had a bad time filming GL, and he likes to take the piss out of himself for playing the character in Deadpool.
Nevertheless, the idea of Reynolds AND Keaton returning to the DC Universe does have strong appeal. Keaton more so, of course.
I can't say I'm so attached to Ryan Reynolds as Hal that I need to see him in ZSJL.
I also can't say that I hated Ryan Reynolds as Hal so much that he would be a deal-breaker in ZSJL.
The only reason I don't suggest Avery Brooks transition from the voiceover world to live action as John Stewart is because the guy may look young but he's 71. Otoh, an actor pushing 70 is clearly not necessarily an obstacle these days. So there's that.
Idk...
I don't think Reynolds has any place in Zack's DCEU. Hopefully this isn't true.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 4 Jun 2020, 15:40
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 4 Jun 2020, 13:32
The Cultured Nerd and their so called sources say this:
QuoteSources close to TCN have confirmed that HBO wants Ben Affleck, Jared Leto, and Joe Manganiello for an original Batman project. This follows reports last week that AT&T and WarnerMedia want Affleck to return as the Caped Crusader. Affleck is also in talks to return to the director's chair and to adapt his original script, with Zack Snyder producing.
The return of Affleck's Batman will either be a miniseries or a DC film on HBO Max, as Warner Bros. is committed to Matt Reeves' The Batman trilogy in theaters. Affleck's project will likely follow the intended storyline teased by the post-credit scene of Justice League or Zack Snyder's Justice League.
https://theculturednerd.org/2020/06/exclusive-hbo-wants-affleck-leto-and-manganiello-for-an-original-batman-project/
It's right to be sceptical, as I am. However I think the concept of the story has merit. HBO Max needs original content. HBO Max may not just become the home of ZSJL, but eventually the home of DC film projects that died with Josstice League. This universe could be their flagship product.
Either way, it's imperative ZSJL is a roaring success.
I'm also deeply skeptical. This is precisely what I want to happen... which is why I'm so suspicious.
Another reason to be suspicious is the scale we're talking about. It'd be one thing if ZSJL came out right now and was a phenomenal runaway success. That would merit the ambition of the projects being talked about in that "report". But it sounds like too much too soon. I'm not buying that.
The most I'll consider is that Affleck is being wooed to come back in some capacity or another. A solo film? Cameos like the rumors about Cavill? Something else completely? But that's about the most I'm willing to contemplate right now. Everything else just seems a little too good (for me) to be true.
I take every rumour with a grain of salt and prefer not to get my hopes up on anything. But for the sake of having a conversation, Zack Snyder liked the article on Vero.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EblUz4VUYAAC6Bs?format=jpg&name=large)
Now these Cultured Nerd guys are going on YouTube to say that Affleck has signed a new deal to continue his Batman on HBO Max and an announcement is imminent.
Do I believe it? No, I don't. As you say, if something sounds too good to be true, it most likely is. And Snyder liking a post doesn't necessarily mean something will happen.
Still, IF Affleck were to return in some capacity then it definitely would be fantastic news. And IF Keaton does return then it would show the DC Multiverse would be embraced on film, and we'd all be living in heaven.
Which is exactly why it sounds too good to be true.
If Keaton and Affleck were playing Batman at the same time, it makes sense to have a timeline separation route. Meaning Batfleck is replaced in the DCEU canon, and his stories would exist immediately after ZSJL for HBO Max. Josstice League would be canon for the ongoing live action universe with Keaton.
Right now I'm not buying anything other than bare details, because this current frenzy allows anything to be thrown against the wall for a headline. Do I think Keaton has been approached? Yes. Do I think Affleck will be wooed by AT&T at some point? Yes. But any further than that I'll see what happens.
I'm sending all my positive energy towards a favorable outcome.
Ray Fisher wrote this tweet to throw shade at Joss Whedon.
https://www.twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1277636497940852737
Thankfully, aside from the real Justice League coming out, it appears Josstice League did more damage to Whedon's career as a big time director than it has for Snyder. For all the vitriol Snyder gets, time has shown he has a devoted fan base and he has two films coming out next year - Army of the Dead and ZSJL. The latter being the result of dedicated fan demand making it possible.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 22:19
Ray Fisher wrote this tweet to throw shade at Joss Whedon.
https://www.twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1277636497940852737
Thankfully, aside from the real Justice League coming out, it appears Josstice League did more damage to Whedon's career as a big time director than it has for Snyder. For all the vitriol Snyder gets, time has shown he has a devoted fan base and he has two films coming out next year - Army of the Dead and ZSJL. The latter being the result of dedicated fan demand making it possible.
Okay, so the gloves are off now.
(https://i.imgur.com/6qV0l8U.jpg)
Oh boy.....
I'm with Ray, 100%, even if the allegations were bogus, and they're probably not, because Joss is scum and doesn't deserve to work again. If people are being cancelled he can join the list. The standard that's been adhered to by Joss is to believe ALL accusers. For example, look at how he slimed Brett Kavanaugh. Especially with Ray being a black man, they should take Ray at his word.
P.S: Love how Ray deliberately misspelled the slug's surname.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 2 Jul 2020, 02:08
I'm with Ray, 100%, even if the allegations were bogus, and they're probably not, because Joss is scum and doesn't deserve to work again. If people are being cancelled he can join the list. The standard that's been adhered to by Joss is to believe ALL accusers. For example, look at how he slimed Brett Kavanaugh. Especially with Ray being a black man, they should take Ray at his word.
P.S: Love how Ray deliberately misspelled the slug's surname.
I guess I got something different from the tweet. I hadn't heard that stuff about Whedon being a major league a-hole on JL. But it seems reasonable.
No, what interested me is that Fisher went to guns against Johns (which is serious but ultimately who cares?) and Berg (which
IS a big deal).
This lends tons of credence to the rumors about Johns and Berg submarining Snyder on BVS then on JL. I suspected that stuff to be true before but now I totally believe it. Fisher is throwing down the gauntlet in a big way here and it'll be interesting if other cast and crew throw in their two pennies. Cat's out of the bag now so why not?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 2 Jul 2020, 02:22
This lends tons of credence to the rumors about Johns and Berg submarining Snyder on BVS then on JL. I suspected that stuff to be true before but now I totally believe it. Fisher is throwing down the gauntlet in a big way here and it'll be interesting if other cast and crew throw in their two pennies. Cat's out of the bag now so why not?
That too. Ray obviously feels comfortable in making this statement, full knowing it would become big news. The time for him biting his tongue is well and truly over. I'm hoping it means what it
could mean. I'm still healthily doubting Affleck's
imminent return, but this article makes sound arguments: https://cosmicbook.news/ben-affleck-batman-contract-hbo-max
Quote"Geoff Johns has been blamed as the reason why Ben Affleck left the Batman role, as Johns is said to have caused interference with Affleck's decisions involving the script."
"All the people that caused the issues, to begin with, are gone. Zack is back. He's making his movie. They pretty much gave him a blank check to finish Zack Snyder's Justice League... So giving that level of trust back to Zack Snyder was a huge moment for Ben, and having the idea that Zack is back on control of his project, and the idea that he can then move forward with the project that Zack wanted to make, the Batman movie he wanted to make and have Zack in his corner, that was enough to sell him of the return."
Keaton and Affleck, the two best Batmen ever, appearing at the same time with new content, and another trilogy to the side of that? If that ended up happening, Josstice League would end up being seen as necessary evil. A clown show that ending as a blissful dream, giving us more Batman content than ever thought possible. A bigger trigger than B&R ever was.
If Affleck came back, the Deathstroke movie would be the project, even if it was a one-off. As a general observation, Affleck does look really fit and healthy currently.
But to ground ourselves in reality once more, at least ZSJL is a guaranteed lock.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 2 Jul 2020, 07:10
But to ground ourselves in reality once more, at least ZSJL is a guaranteed lock.
This. I want to emphasize that I don't really need anything besides this. If ZSJL is all we end up getting then I'm still happy. The other things get bandied about with Keaton, Affleck, etc, are all welcome but they're unnecessary to me.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 1 Jul 2020, 17:37
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 22:19
Ray Fisher wrote this tweet to throw shade at Joss Whedon.
https://www.twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1277636497940852737
Thankfully, aside from the real Justice League coming out, it appears Josstice League did more damage to Whedon's career as a big time director than it has for Snyder. For all the vitriol Snyder gets, time has shown he has a devoted fan base and he has two films coming out next year - Army of the Dead and ZSJL. The latter being the result of dedicated fan demand making it possible.
Okay, so the gloves are off now.
(https://i.imgur.com/6qV0l8U.jpg)
I was dying to talk about this all day, but I couldn't because of work.
There has been a lot of talk about this issue ever since Fisher publicly condemned Whedon. I could spend the whole night writing about, but instead, I'll share this video by Snyder cut supporter Chris-Wong Swenson, who talks about this in great detail for the first ten minutes before talking about more tweets by David Ayer about Suicide Squad.
https://youtu.be/Hn9QfJF_p_s
Jon Berg...so it was HIM who Snyder was referring to back in 2017:
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 31 Mar 2017, 11:07
Well, you're going to love this TDK. Snyder gave this little cheeky reply to somebody complaining about the rumoured running time on Twitter.
Quote from: jon berg
@ZackSnyder Disappointed the JL movie is only 170 minutes... also curious as movie isn't finished yet, but IMDB knows exact running time?
Quote from: Zack Snyder
@thejonberg Forgot to tell you that I screened the first cut of JL for IMDB. Thought that was standard WB procedure. No?
https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/847656233381146625
https://www.batman-online.com/forum/index.php?topic=3540.40
You would think this idiot was a bottom feeding clickbait writer. And to think he suggested Fisher is just bitter because he was forced to say "Booyah" on set. What a f***ing asshole.
I don't know if Whedon terrorising Gal Gadot is true or not, but I do know that if there is a silver lining to this debacle, it's that Josstice League may have done more damage to his career than it could ever do to Zack Snyder's.
In addition to Clay Enos, some of stunt actors i.e. Richard Cetrone (Batfleck's stunt double, goes by stunt_batman on Instagram), Caitlin Burles (Wonder Gal's stunt double) and Karen Bryson (who plays Victor Stone's mother in ZSJL) came out to support Fisher's initial comments on Instagram.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ebuu0h8XQAUv_2V?format=jpg&name=medium)
As for Johns, yeah, you'd be hard-pressed to defend this guy, as more people speak out against him. Going by what Fisher is saying, the reshoot experience and culture at WB back then was extremely toxic to the point that it may have jeopardised Ben Affleck's mental health even further. Who knows, it may hurt other people along the way.
Which makes me suspect this video about Affleck getting forced out might have had some truth after all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EB_IoWNgNs&ab_channel=FilmGob
Man, if that's the case, then what happened behind the scenes of JL once Whedon took over sounds even worse than we all thought.
As bad as Whedon is, the sad thing is Johns is still involved in DC productions, albeit WW84 is presumably his last cinematic outing. Again, it makes me question Patty Jenkins's integrity.
In the meantime, I seriously hope those corrupt bastards at Hollywood don't blacklist Fisher from getting parts. He shouldn't suffer any backlash, but you never know with these people. Flash producer Barbara Muschietti indicated he would be appearing alongside Ezra Miller. Let's hope that ZSJL's release will not only lay past agony to rest, but allows Fisher to continue acting - including playing Cyborg - for years to come.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 2 Jul 2020, 13:47
I don't know if Whedon terrorising Gal Gadot is true or not, but I do know that if there is a silver lining to this debacle, it's that Josstice League may have done more damage to his career than it could ever do to Zack Snyder's.
If more and more people come out and back up Fisher's claims about Whedon during the filming of Josstice League, I'm sure we'll eventually get a fairly clear picture of what was going on BTS. If the allegations are indeed true (to which wouldn't be really all that surprising. I mean, this is a guy who openly poked fun at teenage cancer survivors), then I guarantee you the notion of Joss Whedon publicly throwing his weight around as a director, and having no qualms in obscenely bullying actors didn't just magically start on the set of JL.
QuoteAs for Johns, yeah, you'd be hard-pressed to defend this guy, as more people speak out against him. Going by what Fisher is saying, the reshoot experience and culture at WB back then was extremely toxic to the point that it may have jeopardised Ben Affleck's mental health even further. Who knows, it may hurt other people along the way.
As bad as Whedon is, the sad thing is Johns is still involved in DC productions, albeit WW84 is presumably his last cinematic outing. Again, it makes me question Patty Jenkins's integrity.
Geoff Johns strikes me as one of those guys who landed a sweet gig with Warners, and thought his own personal spin on the DCEU would make him a real bona fide "player" in Hollywood. Just like his compadre, Kevin Feige. Obviously, that didn't happen and now he's reduced to being on the outside looking in, but I really don't see Johns being nearly as flamboyant on set, and/or direct in his public indecency as Joss.
Just because both Whedon and Johns may have been drunk on power, does not automatically mean they operated the same way. It's possible that their methodologies were completely opposite from one another. Whedon could have very well been literally no one's favorite on the set, while Johns could have endured himself as more personable, all the while quietly using his power with Warners to his advantage. Sometimes, people only judge other's by how that individual
personally treated them. It can be quite complex. Just like people.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 4 Jul 2020, 02:20Geoff Johns strikes me as one of those guys who landed a sweet gig with Warners, and thought his own personal spin on the DCEU would make him a real bona fide "player" in Hollywood. Just like his compadre, Kevin Feige. Obviously, that didn't happen and now he's reduced to being on the outside looking in, but I really don't see Johns being nearly as flamboyant on set, and/or direct in his public indecency as Joss.
Just because both Whedon and Johns may have been drunk on power, does not automatically mean they operated the same way. It's possible that their methodologies were completely opposite from one another. Whedon could have very well been literally no one's favorite on the set, while Johns could have endured himself as more personable, all the while quietly using his power with Warners to his advantage. Sometimes, people only judge other's by how that individual personally treated them. It can be quite complex. Just like people.
Good post. And I agree with you.
Now, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. But the sense I get is that Johns got where he did because his employment with Donner gave him a completely artificial film pedigree. But in fact, he doesn't really understand film at all.
I base this on the fact that he has tried a few times to adapt his own GL stuff into film of some kind.
Now don't get me wrong, I think the Geoff Johns run on GL is in the top 10 greatest runs of any comic book ever. The entire GL property is infinitely better now than it ever would've been without Johns SAVING that character/franchise. Those are some awesome comics.
But they would make awful movies. They just would.
The number of buy-ins required to adapt the entire Johns run would probably require 12 or 13 multi-hundred million dollar feature films. Those stories would have to be told very gradually to acclimate audiences to some of the kookier elements of the GL mythos, especially the Johns stuff.
You can't just have the entire emotional spectrum of different Corps showing up in one movie and expect audiences to understand wtf you're even talking about. It would have to be done SUPER gradually.
And I don't think Johns understands that.
He is a good storyteller but I don't think he understands just how limited feature film actually is. Stories can only be so big even with feature film. There are limits. A lot of limits, in fact.
When Johns sees directors like Snyder not necessarily fully developing something like Doomsday, he probably doesn't understand why the Doomsday character/concept isn't fuilly fleshed out and explained. Snyder understands why Doomsday received such an abrupt introduction but I don't think Johns is capable of understanding why.
I'm not making conclusions about Johns on a personal level in this post. Although you probably already know what I think of him personally. Strictly on a creative level, I don't think he belongs in feature film because I don't think he understands how feature film works.
And it looks like somebody from WB finally figured that out too. Hence, his termination.
As a big Joss Whedon fan(Buffy's still one of the greatest tv shows of all time). I'll wait till more details come out before I pass judgement on him.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 4 Jul 2020, 03:10
I'm not making conclusions about Johns on a personal level in this post. Although you probably already know what I think of him personally. Strictly on a creative level, I don't think he belongs in feature film because I don't think he understands how feature film works.
And it looks like somebody from WB finally figured that out too. Hence, his termination.
Hold your horses. Johns AND Berg are not out of WB yet.
Quote
EXCLUSIVE: Warner Bros and Stampede Ventures have set up Frosty the Snowman, a live-action film that will see Aquaman star Jason Momoa voicing the iconic snowman.
Jon Berg and Greg Silverman of Stampede produce with Geoff Johns of Madghost, Roy Lee, and Momoa. Berg and Silverman were Warner Bros senior execs who helped architect the DC franchise launch of Aquaman with James Wan at the helm.
David Berenbaum, who worked with Berg on Elf, is writing the script based on the venerable character that Momoa will embody as a CGI Frosty in the hybrid CG/live-action film.
"From his role as a fearsome count in a land of ice and fire to the oceanic success we all had with Aquaman, it felt only right to realize Jason this time out of snow," Berg said.
Said Silverman: "We know Jason's as a true human being filled with love, compassion and a deep connection to ohana — all of which is the living spirit of Xmas and Frosty."
https://deadline.com/2020/07/jason-momoa-frosty-the-snowman-live-action-warner-bros-stampede-1202975009/
There are rumours that Johns is involved in the Green Lantern Corps show on HBO Max as well. It goes to show despite his poor track record, he has networking ties to keep working for WB.
I hope Momoa gets out of Frosty the Snowman. Together with Fisher, he has been the biggest cast member who vocally supported the Snyder cut, and it would be a shame if he dealt with those two snakes again. The timing of this announcement is quite suspicious too, since it happened on the same day as Fisher accused Johns and Berg of enabling Whedon's bad behaviour.
Speaking of which, Kevin Smith said he spoke to a crew member who worked on JL and was told that Whedon trash-talked Snyder's film during the reshoots. Other claims included verbally abusing cast and crew members. If that's true then it goes to show how much of a scumbag Whedon is. Here below is the footage of Smith talking about what he was told, while breaking down Fisher's recent tweet.
https://youtu.be/I3zLNbam1v0?t=6171
I've got it timestamped at the 1:42 minute mark, but you can go further back see Smith entire break down Fisher's tweet in detail on the 1:33 mark, if you wish.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 4 Jul 2020, 02:20
Just because both Whedon and Johns may have been drunk on power, does not automatically mean they operated the same way. It's possible that their methodologies were completely opposite from one another. Whedon could have very well been literally no one's favorite on the set, while Johns could have endured himself as more personable, all the while quietly using his power with Warners to his advantage. Sometimes, people only judge other's by how that individual personally treated them. It can be quite complex. Just like people.
I understand that. But if it's true that Whedon vocally trashed Snyder's work during the reshoots, and Johns knew about it but did nothing, then it's still a bad reflection on his part.
Going back to Jon Berg's idiotic implication that Fisher has a grudge because he was forced to say "Booyah", the closest thing that I can see that claim fit is when Fisher tweeted this last month:
Quote from: Ray Fisher
I don't praise Chris Terrio and @ZackSnyder for simply putting me in Justice League.
I praise them for EMPOWERING me (a black man with no film credits to his name) with a seat at the creative table and input on the framing of the Stones before there was even a script! #BORGLIFE
Source: https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1269390792499630080
But even if Fisher was annoyed about having to say that line, it's still tone-deaf of Berg to imply that he held a grudge for the whole reshoot experience because of only that.
You have to admire Rayborg's dedication to Snyder. This sort of loyalty doesn't appear to be quite common in Hollywood.
(https://i.redd.it/6cv1sjoq91341.jpg)
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 4 Jul 2020, 06:07Speaking of which, Kevin Smith said he spoke to a crew member who worked on JL and was told that Whedon trash-talked Snyder's film during the reshoots. Other claims included verbally abusing cast and crew members. If that's true then it goes to show how much of a scumbag Whedon is. Here below is the footage of Smith talking about what he was told, while breaking down Fisher's recent tweet.
https://youtu.be/I3zLNbam1v0?t=6171
I've got it timestamped at the 1:42 minute mark, but you can go further back see Smith entire break down Fisher's tweet in detail on the 1:33 mark, if you wish.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 4 Jul 2020, 02:20
Just because both Whedon and Johns may have been drunk on power, does not automatically mean they operated the same way. It's possible that their methodologies were completely opposite from one another. Whedon could have very well been literally no one's favorite on the set, while Johns could have endured himself as more personable, all the while quietly using his power with Warners to his advantage. Sometimes, people only judge other's by how that individual personally treated them. It can be quite complex. Just like people.
I understand that. But if it's true that Whedon vocally trashed Snyder's work during the reshoots, and Johns knew about it but did nothing, then it's still a bad reflection on his part.
Going back to Jon Berg's idiotic implication that Fisher has a grudge because he was forced to say "Booyah", the closest thing that I can see that claim fit is when Fisher tweeted this last month:
Quote from: Ray Fisher
I don't praise Chris Terrio and @ZackSnyder for simply putting me in Justice League.
I praise them for EMPOWERING me (a black man with no film credits to his name) with a seat at the creative table and input on the framing of the Stones before there was even a script! #BORGLIFE
Source: https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1269390792499630080
But even if Fisher was annoyed about having to say that line, it's still tone-deaf of Berg to imply that he held a grudge for the whole reshoot experience because of only that.
You have to admire Rayborg's dedication to Snyder. This sort of loyalty doesn't appear to be quite common in Hollywood.
(https://i.redd.it/6cv1sjoq91341.jpg)
I hope this business about Whedon trash-talking Snyder onset during the reshoots isn't true. But (A) Fisher's tweets imply that it is and (B) your Smith/Garman video outright says that it is. It's poor taste because, officially, Snyder left to deal with a family tragedy. It's just a tacky thing to do.
The other thing is... well, let's not mince words. We've all seen BVS. There's literally nothing in Whedon's entire career that can hold a candle to any random five minutes of BVS in terms of style, coolness or anything else. Snyder is in a class all by himself in terms of style. People can love or hate his work but there's no denying that what he makes is pure cool.
Whedon is a writing guy. Everything people say about Whedon ultimately goes back to writing. Whether it's dialogue, vernacular stuff (The Big Bad), character dynamics, stronk wamen or whatever, it all comes down to writing. Snyder's creative partner in BVS and JL was Chris Terrio so the writing stuff is definitely covered in those movies.
My point is that Whedon doesn't have any business criticzing Snyder for basically anything. There's just no way to argue with Snyder's work. To paraphrase Tony Stark, everything
special about Whedon's comic book films came out of someone else's imagination rather than Whedon's own imagination. The end results are mostly commensurate with that. He made one great Avengers film and one mediocre Avengers film.
Meanwhile, Snyder has made two amazing DCEU films.
So if Whedon can't respect the fact that Snyder was going through a difficult time, shouldn't he at least
respect his betters?
It is interesting tho that Snyder is getting vindicated left, right and center these days. It's enough to make you believe that "justice" isn't just a word in a movie's title.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 4 Jul 2020, 06:59
I hope this business about Whedon trash-talking Snyder onset during the reshoots isn't true. But (A) Fisher's tweets imply that it is and (B) your Smith/Garman video outright says that it is. It's poor taste because, officially, Snyder left to deal with a family tragedy. It's just a tacky thing to do.
Going by Fisher's latest tweet, it appears everything that Smith said is true:
Quote from: Ray Fisher
God Bless @ThatKevinSmith
https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1279889657006821380
In addition to calling Whedon out, Fisher expressed his support for Whedon's ex-wife Kai Cole, who accused him of committing adultery and emotional abuse, as well as Charisma Carpenter, who allegedly got fired from the Cordelia role on Buffy because she was pregnant.
Putting all that drama aside for a moment, last week Snyder awarded this excellent piece of artwork as the winner of a fan art competition hosted by the RTSC movement.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQwXAKIW4AEDJzu?format=jpg&name=900x900)
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/Z5v5-LB26TKbcCrfq1ZpnSzW
This artwork is based on the mosaic that was printed on these t-shirts that went on sale last year, with proceeds going to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.
(https://www.dcworld.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Screenshot-2019-06-21-at-20.57.06.png)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dwlns8JUwAAAcgs.jpg)
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 6 Jul 2020, 10:17
In addition to calling Whedon out, Fisher expressed his support for Whedon's ex-wife Kai Cole, who accused him of committing adultery and emotional abuse, as well as Charisma Carpenter, who allegedly got fired from the Cordelia role on Buffy because she was pregnant.
Whedon's image as a "male feminist" has been punctured. The damage was serious enough that when his issues first started leaking out to the public a while back, one of the leading Buffy/Whedonverse websites that has ever existed took down their shingle. A huge proportion of Buffy fandom was partially a cult of personality surrounding Whedon's "rah rah women" image. That was his branding back then and he's never getting that back.
Still, this goes a long way toward explaining why Sarah Michelle Gellar has gone so far out of her way to distance herself from Buffy. That was her big break and she hasn't looked back for the better part of twenty years. Makes you wonder what she's sitting on that hasn't come out yet.
Everything We Know About ZSJL. It's basically a round up of known info. Another way of looking at it is you can sum the whole thing up with "Not much". Either way, it's good to have it all in one place, I guess.
https://variety.com/2020/film/news/snyder-cut-justice-league-hbo-max-zack-snyder-everything-we-know-1234704010
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlwKMNpVnOs
It's going to be a long movie, which is music to my ears. If this is it for the Snyderverse, I can't imagine a better sendoff considering the circumstances. The movie we'll see will be an even purer version of what Snyder was going to release before the circus started.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 20 Jul 2020, 15:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlwKMNpVnOs
I may have misunderstood, but I get the sense that Snyder's "trilogy" (MOS, BvS Ultimate Edition and ZSJL) takes place in an alternate timeline, and the theatrical releases (MOS, BvS theatrical cut and Josstice League) belong in the main DCEU timeline. Not ideal, but under the circumstances, beggars can't be choosers.
Decent interview, but I'm not the biggest Grace Randolph fan, even if she is Snyder-friendly. I prefer to think her evil Superman comment wasn't meant to be taken literally.
If ZSJL is going to be longer than the 214-minute cut that Snyder himself had been hinting at within the last few years, I have to wonder if that cut was compromised by Johns rewrites. And maybe he'll be doing some additional work i.e. ADR to fix all that?
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 20 Jul 2020, 15:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlwKMNpVnOs
Her ****ing voice...
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 25 Jul 2020, 02:32
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 20 Jul 2020, 15:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlwKMNpVnOs
I may have misunderstood, but I get the sense that Snyder's "trilogy" (MOS, BvS Ultimate Edition and ZSJL) takes place in an alternate timeline, and the theatrical releases (MOS, BvS theatrical cut and Josstice League) belong in the main DCEU timeline. Not ideal, but under the circumstances, beggars can't be choosers.
Decent interview, but I'm not the biggest Grace Randolph fan, even if she is Snyder-friendly. I prefer to think her evil Superman comment wasn't meant to be taken literally.
If ZSJL is going to be longer than the 214-minute cut that Snyder himself had been hinting at within the last few years, I have to wonder if that cut was compromised by Johns rewrites. And maybe he'll be doing some additional work i.e. ADR to fix all that?
This just popped up https://www.superherohype.com/movies/484177-zack-snyder-vows-his-justice-league-cut-wont-use-any-of-joss-whedons-footage
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 25 Jul 2020, 02:32
I may have misunderstood, but I get the sense that Snyder's "trilogy" (MOS, BvS Ultimate Edition and ZSJL) takes place in an alternate timeline, and the theatrical releases (MOS, BvS theatrical cut and Josstice League) belong in the main DCEU timeline. Not ideal, but under the circumstances, beggars can't be choosers.
To be clear, I may have misspoke by saying "timeline". I should've said "universe", if we're lead to believe that DC on film will embracing the multiverse concept going forward.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun, 26 Jul 2020, 00:55
This just popped up https://www.superherohype.com/movies/484177-zack-snyder-vows-his-justice-league-cut-wont-use-any-of-joss-whedons-footage
Without giving SHH any clicks because I hate the site, Snyder went on record saying "I'll destroy the movie before I use a single frame that I didn't photograph. That is a f***ing hard fact. I'd literally blow the f***ing thing up". And he has every right to. (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)
What's even more exciting is he confirmed that he'll be going back to the original Steppenwolf design from BvS!
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 20 Jul 2020, 15:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlwKMNpVnOs
I'm coming back to this. Snyder has said a few times now that he hasn't seen the Whedon cut. I can believe that up to a certain point. But I find it a bit hard to swallow right now. Out of morbid curiosity perhaps crossed with a righteous vindication, I'd be shocked if he hasn't watched the other version.
Richard Donner claims to have never seen the Lester cut of Superman II. But he sure seems to know an awful lot about it, creative decisions that were made which were different from his own, etc.
I have to wonder in cases like this if directors claim to have never seen the alternate version of their films to avoid answering questions and perhaps saying something they'll regret later.
In Donner's case, I don't buy it, full stop. But even with Snyder, I see quite a few reasons to not accept what he says at face value when it comes to having never watched Whedon's hacked up mess.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 26 Jul 2020, 22:26
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 20 Jul 2020, 15:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlwKMNpVnOs
I'm coming back to this. Snyder has said a few times now that he hasn't seen the Whedon cut. I can believe that up to a certain point. But I find it a bit hard to swallow right now. Out of morbid curiosity perhaps crossed with a righteous vindication, I'd be shocked if he hasn't watched the other version.
Richard Donner claims to have never seen the Lester cut of Superman II. But he sure seems to know an awful lot about it, creative decisions that were made which were different from his own, etc.
I have to wonder in cases like this if directors claim to have never seen the alternate version of their films to avoid answering questions and perhaps saying something they'll regret later.
In Donner's case, I don't buy it, full stop. But even with Snyder, I see quite a few reasons to not accept what he says at face value when it comes to having never watched Whedon's hacked up mess.
I do believe it. These people possibly have friends that still work on these productions well after the director has left. Also, in the case of Snyder there are tweets of fans filling him in on what some of the differences were.
I remember Bryan Singer talking about X-Men 3. He said that a friend of his had prepared him for which characters were going to be killed off before he even saw the film.
My thoughts on recent developments:
1. The black suit looks good, especially when the grading and SFX are all tidied up and complete. I like the tone of the cape especially, as it goes well with the shield. Goes to show how jittery the studio were that the black suit, a staple of Superman's resurrection in the comics, was considered too much of a risk following BvS.
2. If I were a gambling man I'd wager Whedon won't do a damn thing against Ray, and Ray knows it. Even if the claims were bogus. Of course Snyder wouldn't use a single frame from Whedon's reshoots, but I sense an added malice in his comment that would please Ray. Snyder's comment about the studio releasing the Superman/Alfred footage without his permission also was a shot across their bow.
3. I get a strong feeling the movie will be presented in serialized format. Maybe an episode a week or something like that, to keep subscribers hooked for longer. I'd just hope the cliffhanger nature of an episode's conclusion will be presented as always intended, rather than music swelling to a crescendo type thing for each chapter's conclusion.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 00:48
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 26 Jul 2020, 22:26
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 20 Jul 2020, 15:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlwKMNpVnOs
I'm coming back to this. Snyder has said a few times now that he hasn't seen the Whedon cut. I can believe that up to a certain point. But I find it a bit hard to swallow right now. Out of morbid curiosity perhaps crossed with a righteous vindication, I'd be shocked if he hasn't watched the other version.
Richard Donner claims to have never seen the Lester cut of Superman II. But he sure seems to know an awful lot about it, creative decisions that were made which were different from his own, etc.
I have to wonder in cases like this if directors claim to have never seen the alternate version of their films to avoid answering questions and perhaps saying something they'll regret later.
In Donner's case, I don't buy it, full stop. But even with Snyder, I see quite a few reasons to not accept what he says at face value when it comes to having never watched Whedon's hacked up mess.
I do believe it. These people possibly have friends that still work on these productions well after the director has left. Also, in the case of Snyder there are tweets of fans filling him in on what some of the differences were.
As it was already discussed a couple of pages ago, Kevin Smith confirmed he spoke to someone who worked on ZSJL AND the reshoots, and claimed Whedon was badmouthing Snyder's work during that whole time. There's no doubt in my mind that Snyder would've heard about that. Put that together with fans cluing on him about the theatrical cut, which you already said, I believe Snyder has enough info without even seeing Josstice League.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 11:18As it was already discussed a couple of pages ago, Kevin Smith confirmed he spoke to someone who worked on ZSJL AND the reshoots, and claimed Whedon was badmouthing Snyder's work during that whole time. There's no doubt in my mind that Snyder would've heard about that. Put that together with fans cluing on him about the theatrical cut, which you already said, I believe Snyder has enough info without even seeing Josstice League.
The trash talk thing is probably the biggest thing for me. Yeah, Whedon's cut sucks. No doubts there. But if you ask me, the most unprofessional thing somebody can do is come in as a replacement and talk trash about their predecessor. It is literally never acceptable to do that. Never.
Compare all this to how Schumacher handled his business. Now, we don't really know what might've happened behind closed doors. Who's to say what Schumacher might've said or done regarding Burton?
But at least in public, Schumacher's stock answer was to say that he admired Burton's work, he sought and received Burton's blessing to make BF, he didn't know about and wouldn't comment on Burton's departure from the franchise and then he would shift gears and extoll his vision for BF. That's pretty professional behavior. I have no way of knowing if he actually got Burton's blessing for BF or not. I tend to believe that he did but I guess you never know. Still, the last thing Schumacher wanted to do was fuel a Burton vs. Schumacher thing in the media or among the fans. That tells me he probably acted about as gentlemanly as you'd expect behind closed doors. I'm willing to give him the benefit of every possible doubt.
Meanwhile, Whedon trash-talking Snyder and running him down like that is what
amateurs do when they think they're winning points. But what they're really doing is pissing people off. It's just a colossal jerk move and, as above, it's not cool to act that way. If you want to come in as a replacement and impress everybody, don't even mention your predecessor and do your absolute best to prove that you deserve to be where you are.
Because, like right now, sometimes what goes around comes around. And what's coming around for Whedon looks pretty unpleasant.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 12:48
Whedon trash-talking Snyder and running him down like that is what amateurs do when they think they're winning points. But what they're really doing is pissing people off. It's just a colossal jerk move and, as above, it's not cool to act that way. If you want to come in as a replacement and impress everybody, don't even mention your predecessor and do your absolute best to prove that you deserve to be where you are.
Because, like right now, sometimes what goes around comes around. And what's coming around for Whedon looks pretty unpleasant.
To add further context in the subject of Whedon's tarnished reputation, Jeff Pruitt is an ex-stunt coordinator who worked on the first four seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and had this to say:
Quote
We had a great relationship, Joss and I, but he changed as the show took off. He went from the humble writer who used to turn to me for ways to shoot fight scenes into a real egomaniac who believed his own hype. Then again, maybe he was always that way and I was simply too naive to see it as he never showed that side to me before.
There is also the accusation of Whedon trying to pressure another Sarah Michelle Gellar's stunt double to dump Pruitt, who she was dating at the time. That's despicable.
Source: https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/12/egomaniac-joss-whedon-faces-claims-buffy-stunt-double-12942160/?ito=cbshare
The more I hear about Whedon, the more dislike him as a person. I see a behavioural pattern: he uses people when he feels he needs to achieve something, and when he does accomplish it, he pretty much dumps on their dignity. Like Buffy, the success of the Avengers must've gotten to his head.
If Whedon was this unprofessional on the set of Buffy then I can only imagine the misconduct on the set of JL. Put that together with a dysfunctional studio in WB, and you get a recipe for disaster.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 28 Jul 2020, 12:49There is also the accusation of Whedon trying to pressure another Sarah Michelle Gellar's stunt double to dump Pruitt, who she was dating at the time. That's despicable.
Source: https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/12/egomaniac-joss-whedon-faces-claims-buffy-stunt-double-12942160/?ito=cbshare
The more I hear about Whedon, the more dislike him as a person. I see a behavioural pattern: he uses people when he feels he needs to achieve something, and when he does accomplish it, he pretty much dumps on their dignity. Like Buffy, the success of the Avengers must've gotten to his head.
If Whedon was this unprofessional on the set of Buffy then I can only imagine the misconduct on the set of JL. Put that together with a dysfunctional studio in WB, and you get a recipe for disaster.
One thing that I've been a bit confused by over the years is Sarah Michelle Gellar. From the day Buffy ended going right on through to right now, she's gone out of her way to make it clear that she's done with Buffy forever.
Why? That was her big break. And to this day, it's probably her most famous role. Why does she want nothing to do with it?
It might be that she thinks she's outgrown the character. But in light of all these reports about Whedon, I'm starting to think the answer could be that she just doesn't want to have anything to do with Whedon again. If so, makes me wonder what her story is.
This might sound petty, but if they use the word 'omega' in this film it'd be nice if they could pronounce it correctly. The mispronunciation of omega is a pet peeve of mine and practically everyone gets it wrong nowadays, including most of the previous Darkseid voice actors. Speakers in both the UK and US generally pronounce it as either 'oh-MAY-ga' or 'oh-MEE-ga', both of which are wrong. It should be pronounced oʊmɪɡə/oh-mig-uh or oʊmɛɡə/oh-meg-ah. The Greek vowel epsilon has a long and short form. The short form is ɛ, as in '
egg', and this is the form used in omega: oʊˈmɛɡə.
You might argue 'Well omega is an Apocalyptian word and therefore isn't necessarily pronounced the same as the Greek letter.' But if that's the case, then why do they use the Greek symbol Ω?
It won't be the end of the world if they get it wrong, but like I say it's a pet peeve of mine. Actors used to pronounce it correctly in older films and TV shows. For example, they always said it right in classic Doctor Who, as illustrated in the following clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ-zt-o2mIM
But these days they almost always say it wrong, as illustrated in the following clip from Superman/Batman: Apocalypse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE5RXhPwlKc
I have a theory that the pronunciation became conflated with that of 'Amiga' sometime in the eighties. At any rate, if the word is spoken in this film or any other future JL movies I hope they get it right. Someone as smart as Bruce Wayne should know a little about ancient Greek.
It will look different to MoS and BvS, but the 1.43 aspect ratio is one of the best things about ZSJL because of the message it sends. Zack is giving us absolutely everything with no cropping. Leave nothing on the table.
Reading between the lines of a Grace Randolph tweet, it seems like the film could be released in other formats in the future. That makes sense to me. The studio gets more money, and the fans get what they want. Why not capitalize on something you're already comfortable to release?
Cutting WhedonLeague down to two hours made Superman suffer the most. The central figure given bare bones development was not only frustrating, but it sapped the film of its heart and soul.
As such, the healing of Superman after his resurrection is interesting me most at the moment. Quite a lot of psychologically based content it seems on Kent Farm. That's where the majority of the content would presumably need to be given the general structure of the story, so hopefully Snyder set aside a healthy screentime.
The Steppenwolf battle is also undoubtedly going to be better if the Zod and Doomsday battles are anything to go by.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 28 Jul 2020, 22:42
This might sound petty, but if they use the word 'omega' in this film it'd be nice if they could pronounce it correctly. The mispronunciation of omega is a pet peeve of mine and practically everyone gets it wrong nowadays, including most of the previous Darkseid voice actors. Speakers in both the UK and US generally pronounce it as either 'oh-MAY-ga' or 'oh-MEE-ga', both of which are wrong. It should be pronounced oʊmɪɡə/oh-mig-uh or oʊmɛɡə/oh-meg-ah. The Greek vowel epsilon has a long and short form. The short form is ɛ, as in 'egg', and this is the form used in omega: oʊˈmɛɡə.
You might argue 'Well omega is an Apocalyptian word and therefore isn't necessarily pronounced the same as the Greek letter.' But if that's the case, then why do they use the Greek symbol Ω?
It won't be the end of the world if they get it wrong, but like I say it's a pet peeve of mine. Actors used to pronounce it correctly in older films and TV shows. For example, they always said it right in classic Doctor Who, as illustrated in the following clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ-zt-o2mIM
But these days they almost always say it wrong, as illustrated in the following clip from Superman/Batman: Apocalypse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE5RXhPwlKc
I have a theory that the pronunciation became conflated with that of 'Amiga' sometime in the eighties. At any rate, if the word is spoken in this film or any other future JL movies I hope they get it right. Someone as smart as Bruce Wayne should know a little about ancient Greek.
Yeah, I really don't understand what they're all about. Always seemed pretty simple. Oh-mega. Not meega or mayga or whatever. Always seemed dumb when people changed the pronunciation.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 30 Jul 2020, 10:40It will look different to MoS and BvS, but the 1.43 aspect ratio is one of the best things about ZSJL because of the message it sends. Zack is giving us absolutely everything with no cropping. Leave nothing on the table.
That's the aspect ratio? 1.43? Never heard of that one before. And I'm not sure I'm into that either. We'll see tho.
1:43 is IMAX ratio.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 30 Jul 2020, 22:23
1:43 is IMAX ratio.
Okay. Weird. Thought IMAX was 1.66. Oh well, learn something new every day.
Yeah, I think it will look fine. Knowing we're getting the whole picture is what sells it to me. And it will look consistent throughout the film, rather than ratio shifts ala TDK.
I'm seeing word that an Affleck show isn't happening. I'm inclined to believe that, but DC Fandome will put a lot of things to the test. I have that date circled on my calendar with a big red marker.
(https://i.imgur.com/P8Uq9eX.jpg)
https://www.reddit.com/r/DC_Cinematic/comments/gyuz2y/photos_the_snyder_cut_will_have_black_bars_on_the
Seems there's some conflicting information going around.
For the record, I couldn't care less about the aspect ratio. Whatever Snyder wants is fine by me. We'll find out the actual aspect ratio soon enough anyway.
Fan talk from elsewhere, but it adds to our speculation here:
"The Black Suit clip is 1.43:1 aspect ratio.
I am also a bit confused as to Zack's intentions. He spoke about needing to rework a lot of VSFX shots since they were likely rendered in 1.85:1, which was going to be the theatrical exhibition and there was one shot in his Black Suit clip that was definitely cropped (the Medium shot of Superman saying "I'm assuming you're Alfred") because it was likely unfinished and taken from the 1.85:1 master.
Maybe what he'll do is finish up all the FX on a 1.33:1 master, release the HBOMax version as a 1.66:1 and then release the blu-ray/digital download in its original format or 1.43:1."
It sounds complicated - I rest easy knowing Snyder has this under control.
Everything related to the technical and visual side of things, Snyder is second to none. As it has been pointed out by others in youtube comments in some of the videos shared above, even the camera he uses for a video chat looks cinematic.
Rewatched Snyder's Watchmen - no matter what anyone else's opinion of the film, it remains one of my favourite comic book movies (even if it's for slightly personal reasons) and I like to think the tone of his Justice League will be close to that.
Love this artwork from Mariano Navarro & Hernán Cabrera with the black suit and original Steppenwolf design. It's my current iPad wallpaper. I like their depiction of heat vision as something that stings like a minor irritation - this Steppenwolf looks like a complete beast who could hold his own against the entire League.
(https://i.redd.it/o4dul4xx1ce51.jpg)
I love this fan art.
(https://i.imgur.com/fC3txZP.jpg)
I heard some rumours that if ZSJL is a huge success, the Snyderverse could explore other "avenues" such as animation. That wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe making an animated short about the Martian Manhunter's tragic backstory as the only living Martian left in the universe before coming to Earth? Maybe he inherited the name Swanwick from the scientist who brought him to Earth, and takes the name as a token of gratitude? Or how about an animated Batfleck feature, as a prequel of sorts to BvS. With the Coronavirus situation stopping every film department at a standstill, I'm open minded to any possible animated projects that explores these DCEU characters.
Goodbye Geoffenwolf, hello Snyderwolf.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ee71npZU8AAwBFr?format=jpg)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/justice-league-zack-snyder-cut-steppenwolf-design-image/amp/
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 8 Aug 2020, 23:29
Goodbye Geoffenwolf, hello Snyderwolf.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ee71npZU8AAwBFr?format=jpg)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/justice-league-zack-snyder-cut-steppenwolf-design-image/amp/
Where did this come from?
As it says in the article, it was taken from Snyder's Vero account.
Meanwhile, Darkseid can't hold back from his excitement.
Quote from: Ray Porter
A 30 second video and a low res still. Already better than the entirety of that "other" version. F**k the trolls. This is gonna be epic.
https://www.twitter.com/Ray__Porter/status/1292186017210875904
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 9 Aug 2020, 01:53
As it says in the article, it was taken from Snyder's Vero account.
Meanwhile, Darkseid can't hold back from his excitement.
Quote from: Ray Porter
A 30 second video and a low res still. Already better than the entirety of that "other" version. F**k the trolls. This is gonna be epic.
https://www.twitter.com/Ray__Porter/status/1292186017210875904
Ah, I see
Ray Fisher has accused Geoff Johns of gross misconduct.
Quote from: Ray Fisher
During the LA reshoots for Justice League, Geoff Johns summoned me to his office to belittle and admonish my (and my agent's) attempts to take grievances up the proper chain of command.
He then made a thinly veiled threat to my career.
This behavior cannot continue.
A>E
https://mobile.twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1293652833615708172
Man, if this is true then Johns really is a scumbag. And yet, he still works in the entertainment industry despite Josstice League's failure. This goes to show he has strong networking ties, because any other producer in his position would've been chased out of town.
But then again, Hollywood is such a screwed up industry. Hopefully, Fisher isn't the one who gets affected by this.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 12 Aug 2020, 22:36
Ray Fisher has accused Geoff Johns of gross misconduct.
Quote from: Ray Fisher
During the LA reshoots for Justice League, Geoff Johns summoned me to his office to belittle and admonish my (and my agent's) attempts to take grievances up the proper chain of command.
He then made a thinly veiled threat to my career.
This behavior cannot continue.
A>E
https://mobile.twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1293652833615708172
Man, if this is true then Johns really is a scumbag. And yet, he still works in the entertainment industry despite Josstice League's failure. This goes to show he has strong networking ties, because any other producer in his position would've been chased out of town.
But then again, Hollywood is such a screwed up industry. Hopefully, Fisher isn't the one who gets affected by this.
Johns began his career in Hollywood as a minion for Richard Donner. Hollywood (as short hand for the American film industry) is a weird place inasmuch as it was constructed to avoid the usual governing forces of any business/industry: supply & demand, business ethics, profit motive, generally professional business conduct, etc.
I could get slap-happy working through the myriad ways Hollywood intentionally operates differently from literally every single other industry in the entire world. But that's not really the point.
The point is that Hollywood
IS different from everything else, that was done completely on purpose and Geoff Johns cut his teeth in the workforce in that weird, sick system. His career is the sum of all those weird characteristics you find nowhere else besides Hollywood.
All of this is a long way of saying (A) I tend to trust Ray Fisher basically no matter what and (B) I find his story about Johns especially convincing considering how well it fits with everything else we know about Hollywood. Of all people, is it really so hard to believe that Johns would dress Fisher down
FOR TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING? I'm not making any claims of fact here. I'm only saying that I find Fisher's story to be pretty much totally believable.
When you hear about the horror stories that go on in Hollywood i.e. the sexual abuse towards people and inflicted by the likes of Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey and Bryan Singer (and I wouldn't be surprised if Whedon will also be exposed one day), perhaps the whole reshoots debacle and disrespect towards the Snyder family shouldn't be so surprising. Furthermore, Fisher's accusations are an ugly reminder that having strong ethics is asking too much from that industry. No wonder why he's tweeting "Accountability > Entertainment".
Meanwhile, I see a lot of Geoff Johns supporters online dismissing these accusations. Some of them say if he were truly as bad as people like Ray Fisher claims, he would've had a bad reputation in the comic book industry. Here's my problem with this rebuttal: comics and film are two different industries, with the former seems far more amoral, and Fisher isn't the only one with an axe to grind with Johns. We've had Clay Enos approving a fan made 300 meme painting Johns as a traitor, Diane Nelson throwing some shade and denying he was ever her friend (she may be a snake as well, but nonetheless she has no love for the man either), Ayer blaming Johns for his rewrites breaking continuity in Suicide Squad, and Snyder liking articles reporting Johns' gross mismanagement of the whole DCEU franchise. Johns apologists will dismiss these because "there's no proof" and how the people showing their distaste for Johns were "responsible" for the DCEU's failure.
We can go back and forth to argue about all of that, but the most glaring issue throughout all of this is Johns, thus far, has
not responded to any of these allegations. He didn't even give a formal statement to deny any wrongdoing when Fisher had accused him and Jon Berg of enabling Whedon's abusive behaviour. To me, his silence says a lot. Maybe he wlll give a statement and deny any wrongdoing if he gets questioned about this, and maybe he'll do the same thing as that jackass Berg did by deflecting the issue and make a pathetic attempt to suggest Fisher as spme sort of a prima donna. But by then, it'll be too late.
Back on ZSJL, we should expect a brand new trailer at DC FanDome next week.
Quote from: Zack Snyder
Working with Stefan down at CO3 getting ready for DC FanDome.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfJSoksU0AIEC6K?format=jpg)
https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1293228535687942144
Here is the little teaser to the trailer that will debut at DC FanDome this weekend.
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/g-3FJMR4W9LvHZPNGdgbLVdS
Nice to hear Junkie XL's score, a welcome change from Danny Elfman's forgettable effort.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 20 Aug 2020, 13:12
Here is the little teaser to the trailer that will debut at DC FanDome this weekend.
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/g-3FJMR4W9LvHZPNGdgbLVdS
Nice to hear Junkie XL's score, a welcome change from Danny Elfman's forgettable effort.
A teaser for a trailer, ugh. I understand the marketing effort tho.
Full disclosure: I only saw Whedon's JL that one time. But off-hand, I don't remember any of that teaser stuff from Whedon's cut. So I'm guessing that Snyder (or somebody) wants to emphasize new (to viewers) footage in the marketing instead of showing us the small amount of Snyder footage that ended up in JL again. I like that approach, personally.
I would further conjecture that we're getting a release date in addition to whatever trailer Snyder shows for Fandome. So all in all, it looks like things are heading in the right direction.
Vaniety Fair says Affleck is back for the Flash movie.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 20 Aug 2020, 20:07
Vaniety Fair says Affleck is back for the Flash movie.
link?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 20 Aug 2020, 22:18
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 20 Aug 2020, 20:07
Vaniety Fair says Affleck is back for the Flash movie.
link?
Feast your eyes, colored one.
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/08/ben-affleck-returns-batman-the-flash-multiverse-keaton
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 20 Aug 2020, 20:07
Vaniety Fair says Affleck is back for the Flash movie.
And as you know, Keaton is confirmed too. What a day!
Whether Flash will serve as a swansong for Affleck or not remains to be seen, but right now, we should simply enjoy the moment that two Batman favourites are returning for the same project.
I guess The Cultured Nerd was right all along, sort of.
Meanwhile, Ray Fisher has given us an update over his case against Johns, Whedon and Berg.
Quote from: Ray Fisher
After 5 weeks of interviews with various cast/crew, @WarnerMedia has officially launched an independent third-party investigation to get to the heart of the toxic and abusive work environment created during Justice League reshoots.
This is a MASSIVE step forward!
(1/2)
I believe this investigation will show that Geoff Johns, Joss Whedon, Jon Berg (and others) grossly abused their power during the uncertainty of AT&T's merger with Time Warner.
Thank you @WarnerMedia and @ATT for making strides to ensure a safer workplace for all!🙏🏽
A>E
(2/2)
https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1296501935458201601
Keaton's my favorite Batman, but I'm cautious. I could easily see this taking a dump on his character in the same way that the new Star Wars films did to the OT characters.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Thu, 20 Aug 2020, 22:29
Keaton's my favorite Batman, but I'm cautious. I could easily see this taking a dump on his character in the same way that the new Star Wars films did to the OT characters.
It's understandable to have that fear. But I'd like to think that if Keaton would definitely return if he knew his Batman would be respected. I'm confident that it will all work out fine.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 20 Aug 2020, 22:20
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 20 Aug 2020, 22:18
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 20 Aug 2020, 20:07
Vaniety Fair says Affleck is back for the Flash movie.
link?
Feast your eyes, colored one.
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/08/ben-affleck-returns-batman-the-flash-multiverse-keaton
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 20 Aug 2020, 20:07
Vaniety Fair says Affleck is back for the Flash movie.
And as you know, Keaton is confirmed too. What a day!
Whether Flash will serve as a swansong for Affleck or not remains to be seen, but right now, we should simply enjoy the moment that two Batman favourites are returning for the same project.
I guess The Cultured Nerd was right all along, sort of.
Meanwhile, Ray Fisher has given us an update over his case against Johns, Whedon and Berg.
Quote from: Ray Fisher
After 5 weeks of interviews with various cast/crew, @WarnerMedia has officially launched an independent third-party investigation to get to the heart of the toxic and abusive work environment created during Justice League reshoots.
This is a MASSIVE step forward!
(1/2)
I believe this investigation will show that Geoff Johns, Joss Whedon, Jon Berg (and others) grossly abused their power during the uncertainty of AT&T's merger with Time Warner.
Thank you @WarnerMedia and @ATT for making strides to ensure a safer workplace for all!🙏🏽
A>E
(2/2)
https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1296501935458201601
While I have no doubt that Whedon did something or other and that Johns had every possible motive to cover it all up, I'd like some specifics instead of the vague accusations Fisher has been slinging.
QuoteWhile I have no doubt that Whedon did something or other and that Johns had every possible motive to cover it all up, I'd like some specifics instead of the vague accusations Fisher has been slinging.
I still believe in innocent until proven guilty. I'd like to see some proof before believing an accusation. Hopefully this investigation will uncover such evidence one way or the other.
The accusations are so vague, I don't know what's even going on. To me, it just sounds like they were terrible to work with, but that happens all the time in work situations. If something legitimate is uncovered, then I can see the point, but as of now, I just don't care, because there's not enough to go on.
But from what little we do know, Whedon sounds like a terrible person to work with, and Geoff Johns basically destroyed the DCEU, and is also terrible to work with. I'm glad they're both out, and we're moving forward with this new era of the DCEU in all regards. I'm excited with what we're seeing(for the most part).
Absolutely incredible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri4tQ9xRyoc&feature=emb_title
Edit: Video been taken down. Luckily I downloaded it in great quality. But you gotta see this folks!
What was in the video?
Upload it to bitchut and send a link
This trailer makes the theatrical cut look like unfinished previz.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 19:39
This trailer makes the theatrical cut look like unfinished previz.
It's a breath of fresh air. A
completely different film with the same breathtaking Snyder flair we've come to expect. I daresay this cinematography
looks even better than MOS and BvS. The music choice for the trailer was also chill inducing perfection. Snyder always meets the moment in terms of atmosphere and expectation.
It's coming out in 4 parts, an hour a piece. 4hrs long! Snyder also said it'll come out on Blu Ray.
Quote from: Travesty on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 21:50
It's coming out in 4 parts, and hour a piece. 4hrs long! Snydeer also said it'll come out on Blu Ray.
He specifically mentioned Blu-ray? I must've missed that bit.
He said he's working with distribution to come out physically.
Quote from: Travesty on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 21:53
He said he's working with distribution to come out physically.
Brilliant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6512XKKNkU
I'm 100% buying this physically. Hope it comes out on 4k, which I imagine it will.
edit: Hmmmm, went back and listened. He said distribution for overseas, because they don't have HBO Max. Maybe he means a streaming platform? I'm not sure? Maybe it wont be physical? Not sure.
Looks like the haters are out complaining about the trailer already, lol.
I thought it looked great.
Uxas/Darkseid and DeSaad look top notch.
(https://i.imgur.com/q4OceqE.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/1ZGMKNN.jpg)
Snyder wasn't kidding when he said the Knightmare world would be appear in his cut.
(https://i.imgur.com/1vf529B.gif)
To think we were deprived all of this back in 2017. Sigh. Better late than never, I suppose.
Quote from: Travesty on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 22:06
Looks like the haters are out complaining about the trailer already, lol.
I thought it looked great.
One of those haters was that hack from Forbes, Scott Mendolson, who reviewed the trailer when it leaked. How unprofessional.
Much to his dismay, Snyder replied and told him off. ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/0CqrR0S.jpg)
Just to give some further insight into Mendolson's awful character, he tweeted a retarded joke that Affleck changed his mind about never playing Batman again because his other films Live By Night and The Way Back had bombed in the box office. Last time I checked, Live By Night came out around the same time BvS, and The Way Back's theatrical run got interrupted because of the Coronavirus pandemic. Mendolson, like all the deranged haters, is just a disingenuous little bitch.
But that's enough of that. Four hours of this sounds glorious. Next year can't come soon enough.
Quote from: Travesty on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 21:58
I'm 100% buying this physically. Hope it comes out on 4k, which I imagine it will.
edit: Hmmmm, went back and listened. He said distribution for overseas, because they don't have HBO Max. Maybe he means a streaming platform? I'm not sure? Maybe it wont be physical? Not sure.
Okay. Didn't think I heard anything about a Blu-ray release.
Lots of new shots to talk about. Batman blocking the Parademon shots with a raised arm is a good one that stuck out. In general every frame looks very mythic, grand and carefully considered. Nobody does this type of movie quite like Snyder.
Quote from: Travesty on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 14:08
Whedon sounds like a terrible person to work with
I don't know about that since until now no one who has worked with Joss has come out against him. I feel like if Joss was a terrible person then we would have heard about it long before now.
As for what happened with Justice League I blame Warner Bros more then Joss. WB has a history of overreacting to negative movie reviews. Remember they overreacted to the backlash to Batman Returns which got us Batman Forever which lead to Batman and Robin.
It's clear here that they overreacted to the negative reviews that some movie critics give Batman vs Superman.
Quote from: Travesty on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 22:06
Looks like the haters are out complaining about the trailer already, lol.
I thought it looked great.
LMAO
Never underestimate the predictability of those suffering from Zack Snyder DECU Derangement Syndrome.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 23 Aug 2020, 00:50
Quote from: Travesty on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 22:06
Looks like the haters are out complaining about the trailer already, lol.
I thought it looked great.
LMAO
Never underestimate the predictability of those suffering from Zack Snyder DECU Derangement Syndrome.
They were going to hate it regardless. That's their chosen stance and it won't be wavered from. Which is insanity. I don't know how someone looks at that trailer, which is comic book mythology brought to life as an artform, and say it's garbage. It's deeper than that too - I truly believe they hate other people enjoying Snyder's work. It annoys them so much like a wound. I'm all for stomping fools, but will ensure I enjoy what I love. That's the biggest middle finger to give them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NPDw_NN1xo
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 23 Aug 2020, 02:46
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NPDw_NN1xo
If you look at Affleck's book shelf in the background and turn the quality up to 720 pixels or above, you can see he has two copies of The Killing Joke.
Quote from: Vampfox on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 23:50
Quote from: Travesty on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 14:08
Whedon sounds like a terrible person to work with
I don't know about that since until now no one who has worked with Joss has come out against him. I feel like if Joss was a terrible person then we would have heard about it long before now.
I don't think it's that simple. Harvey Weinstein was a prominent Hollywood producer for decades, and it wasn't until the last several years he was exposed to being this deviant that everyone in the world now knows him to be.
Quote from: Vampfox on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 23:50
As for what happened with Justice League I blame Warner Bros more then Joss. WB has a history of overreacting to negative movie reviews. Remember they overreacted to the backlash to Batman Returns which got us Batman Forever which lead to Batman and Robin.
It's clear here that they overreacted to the negative reviews that some movie critics give Batman vs Superman.
As much as I don't have any love for Whedon and his reshoots were shoddy as hell, you're right that Warner are still responsible for this whole ordeal. That doesn't excuse Whedon by any means, but they created this mess to begin with and I'll go far to say they enabled these allegations of abuse on the set. I'd say their decision making concerning was much worse than anything they did in the Burton-Schumacher era.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 21 Aug 2020, 18:38
While I have no doubt that Whedon did something or other and that Johns had every possible motive to cover it all up, I'd like some specifics instead of the vague accusations Fisher has been slinging.
There is this curious video by YouTuber Chris Wong-Swenson about a week and a half ago talking about what Fisher's earlier comment could mean. Whether this analysis is legit or not is another sotry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-IrOyhXAmA&t=824s
Regarding the ZSJL trailer, we can go through the many differences we see from that alone compared to Josstice League. What I liked the most is Snyder is polishing the effects, such as the Wonder Woman "Shall we?" scene we saw back in the first trailer in 2017.
(https://i.imgur.com/DFqnfwR.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BQNXfr7v/Zack-JL-Trailer-Shot1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/WbshKNnK/Zack-Blacksuit-Superman-Trailer-Shot.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y2Rpv16n/Zack-Steppenwolf-Confrontation.jpg)
;D
(https://i.imgur.com/DFqnfwR.jpg)
Slight variations between Snyder 2017 Cyborg and Snyder 2020 Cyborg. Left leg, left ribcage, chest, all have some pretty notable differences. Very interesting.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 23 Aug 2020, 03:03
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y2Rpv16n/Zack-Steppenwolf-Confrontation.jpg)
;D
Ha ha.
Meanwhile....
(https://i.imgur.com/F0V5Tua.jpg)
Leonardo Cohen's Hallelujah is a curious choice of song for the trailer. One might interprete it as a celebration of the film's anticipated release. As a fun bit of trivia, the same song was used during that sex scene between Nite Owl and Silk Spectre in Snyder's Watchmen. ;D
The official Snyder Cut Twitter account was set up a couple of days ago. The current profile picture has the JL logo, but curiously, without the initials.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1296954137020686337/YT0Alf0U_400x400.jpg)
https://twitter.com/snydercut
Meanwhile, I found this snippet from an interview with Christina Wren, who played Major Farris in MOS and BvS. She talked about how she felt seeing Josstice League back in 2017, and expressed her delight once finding out the real cut is coming.
"Sometimes I feel like Hollywood has all these algorithms, and you don't make art by algorithms".
f***ing A.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0zz6mSFGk4
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 23 Aug 2020, 03:03
(https://i.postimg.cc/WbshKNnK/Zack-Blacksuit-Superman-Trailer-Shot.jpg)
If anyone had concerns about how color correction would look, they should automatically be washed away. The black suit is a thing of beauty, and it's what he should be wearing in this particular storyline.
Keeping the suit on for a long time makes sense to me. It makes it more than just a choice, but about science. The black drinks in the rays, and the longer he wears it, the stronger he becomes. The golden sunlight as the League overlook the landscape is a big argument for that.
The footage of Clark hugging Lois and Martha in the cornfield is what Superman is all about. A good man who cares deeply for people, and they care deeply for him. This footage is coming from a director who apparently hates Superman. A director who started his film series with Superman, and made him the heart and soul of every subsequent film. It's a testament to Snyder that my Superman interest is nearly solely based around his version.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 25 Aug 2020, 07:14
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 23 Aug 2020, 03:03
(https://i.postimg.cc/WbshKNnK/Zack-Blacksuit-Superman-Trailer-Shot.jpg)
If anyone had concerns about how color correction would look, they should automatically be washed away. The black suit is a thing of beauty, and it's what he should be wearing in this particular storyline.
Keeping the suit on for a long time makes sense to me. It makes it more than just a choice, but about science. The black drinks in the rays, and the longer he wears it, the stronger he becomes. The golden sunlight as the League overlook the landscape is a big argument for that.
The footage of Clark hugging Lois and Martha in the cornfield is what Superman is all about. A good man who cares deeply for people, and they care deeply for him. This footage is coming from a director who apparently hates Superman. A director who started his film series with Superman, and made him the heart and soul of every subsequent film. It's a testament to Snyder that my Superman interest is nearly solely based around his version.
I grew up on Post-Crisis Superman and
Reign Of The Supermen is arguably the centerpiece of that version of the character's canon. And as you probably know, his black outfit is probably one of the most famous elements of the
actual Superman's return. I don't understand why the black outfit is so controversial to some people when it's such a memorable part of the storyline.
People made the exact same argument about the black suit back then too in terms of it absorbing more sunlight than anything else would. He came back from the dead virtually powerless so that was an important thing for him to correct.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 25 Aug 2020, 12:29
I grew up on Post-Crisis Superman and Reign Of The Supermen is arguably the centerpiece of that version of the character's canon. And as you probably know, his black outfit is probably one of the most famous elements of the actual Superman's return. I don't understand why the black outfit is so controversial to some people when it's such a memorable part of the storyline.
I believe it's this simple to the bed wetters: Superman is meant to hopeful, and black makes him look like an evil Batman knockoff. The Batman knockoff complaint can have merit at times, but it has also become an impediment to Superman's growth as a three dimensional character.
Any character is strengthened by experiencing conflict. Batman and Superman are separate characters, but it's dumb to say there's certain emotions or themes that are only exclusive to one and not the other.
Superman can and should get angry at times. He shouldn't be smiling 24/7, which is completely unnatural. He should physically fight opponents, which means yelling and inadvertently causing property damage. He should have doubts to deal with and overcome. Snyder's take is just about spot on for me in all those categories.
It's easy to be hopeful in a hopeful world. It's harder to be hopeful in this modern world. That's the whole premise of Snyder's Superman, and it seems to go over people's heads.
Because he has superpowers, Superman doesn't have any need for gadgets, and that's part of his appeal. However the black suit, or any other alternative suit, expands his world and IMO makes things more interesting. What comic fan doesn't like seeing a range of different costumes?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 25 Aug 2020, 12:29
I grew up on Post-Crisis Superman and Reign Of The Supermen is arguably the centerpiece of that version of the character's canon. And as you probably know, his black outfit is probably one of the most famous elements of the actual Superman's return. I don't understand why the black outfit is so controversial to some people when it's such a memorable part of the storyline.
People made the exact same argument about the black suit back then too in terms of it absorbing more sunlight than anything else would. He came back from the dead virtually powerless so that was an important thing for him to correct.
I get the impression a lot of these supposed Superman purists are not fans of the Post-Crisis era, which Snyder's take has a lot of common. I've seen some of these people talk about Superman should appeal to a mass family friendly demographic, and perhaps, the black suit is representative of a comic book saga that is anything but.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 13:38
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 25 Aug 2020, 12:29
I grew up on Post-Crisis Superman and Reign Of The Supermen is arguably the centerpiece of that version of the character's canon. And as you probably know, his black outfit is probably one of the most famous elements of the actual Superman's return. I don't understand why the black outfit is so controversial to some people when it's such a memorable part of the storyline.
People made the exact same argument about the black suit back then too in terms of it absorbing more sunlight than anything else would. He came back from the dead virtually powerless so that was an important thing for him to correct.
I get the impression a lot of these supposed Superman purists are not fans of the Post-Crisis era, which Snyder's take has a lot of common. I've seen some of these people talk about Superman should appeal to a mass family friendly demographic, and perhaps, the black suit is representative of a comic book saga that is anything but.
I get the impression that these days, all it takes to be a "huge Superman fan" is having seen STM twice.
And to say the least, the Post-Crisis canon exists in a world apart from STM.
I'm to the point now where I almost want to quiz people who say they're big Superman fans. Yeah? Okay, big shot.
What are your top five favorite Superman comic book stories? For arbitrary criteria, stories including Batman appearances don't count.
Who are your top 10 favorite Superman artists? Do you enjoy the Bronze Age more than Post-Crisis?
Whether yes or no, show your gd work and explain your answer.
Is Superboy a necessary component of the character's history? If no, explain.
As a matter of absolute canon, Lex Luthor has to be a corporate titan: True or False?
Superman's one true love is Lois Lane. Agree or disagree? Why?
If someone can't speak to me at length about those things without referencing the movies/shows, Batman or some other off-topic bull$#!+, I don't respect their cred as a "Superman fan".
For you Batman fans, think of it as someone claiming to be a gigantic Batman fan but literally all they know is the Nolan trilogy. There's nothing wrong with the Nolan trilogy but there's also a helluva lot more to Batman than just those three films, right? That's basically where I am with Superman and a lot of the hipsters who call themselves fans.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 13:38
I get the impression a lot of these supposed Superman purists are not fans of the Post-Crisis era, which Snyder's take has a lot of common.
Just when I thought I read my comment carefully and believed it was free from grammar errors, I somehow failed to say "a lot IN common". Sigh, writing that comment straight after a long day at work was such a bad idea.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 16:11
I get the impression that these days, all it takes to be a "huge Superman fan" is having seen STM twice.
And to say the least, the Post-Crisis canon exists in a world apart from STM.
I'm to the point now where I almost want to quiz people who say they're big Superman fans.
Yeah, I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt that most people have a preferred take on Superman that isn't Reeve-centric.
From what I've seen of these people on social media, they often use comic panels of Superman performing heroics to demonstrate "how Superman should be" but take things out of context. The most popular panel I see anti-Snyder activists use is the scene where Superman hugs a suicidal girl in All-Star Superman. It doesn't matter what the story is about, it could be Superman is on his last days trying to make the best out of a doomed situation, these people come across as seeing the character doing the "right thing", as they say, but only if it makes them feel good. They seem to care little about the story itself; more often than not, I've noticed a lot of these people are concerned that Superman "should always be viewed as the best of us, instead of being dragged to our level".
Well sorry, that is a load of nonsense. If fictional characters can't face any challenges at all, they're no longer interesting. If they can't be allowed to face a crisis and prove their heroics by overcoming them, then there's nothing inspirational about them. I do think Snyder's Superman has room for improvement, but if you can't see the inherent beauty of him putting his own life on the line to protect humanity from the likes of Doomsday in spite of all the doubt and slander thrown at him, then I don't know what to say. Because that character moment screams "SUPERMAN" to me.
I wouldn't think anyone would need to be a comic book expert to understand that.
Meanwhile, I found these rumours that a new Supeman sequel AND the chance for Snyder to complete his five part story arc is being discussed.
https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/08/24/rumor-justice-league-and-man-of-steel-sequels-in-the-works-with-zack-snyder-attached/
If there is a real possibility that the original plans for the DCEU could revived and completed, there's only way to make it possible. And that is to make ZSJL a smash hit.
The fans can't afford to be complacent now.
I'm not even a huge Superman aficionado, but I feel like I know way more about him than the majority of people I see on the internet. Most people just bring up STM over and over and over again. It's exhausting how one note they are.
I read Superman when I was younger, and never really stuck with it. I haven't read any of the "newer" stuff from New 52 and Rebirth. But, I've also heard it wasn't even worth my time.
But I dunno, Superman fans are the hardest fanbase to please. I wouldn't want to touch a Superman project with a 10ft pole if I had the chance.
Quote from: Travesty on Sat, 29 Aug 2020, 19:00
I'm not even a huge Superman aficionado, but I feel like I know way more about him than the majority of people I see on the internet. Most people just bring up STM over and over and over again. It's exhausting how one note they are.
I like Superman. I have a fair share of graphic novels and would consider myself informed enough to make a balanced opinion on aspects of the franchise. That opinion brings me to say Snyder/Earth One is my preferred portrayal (especially for now) rather than Reeve. Does all that make me a
HUGE SUPERMAN FAN? I'm not going to pretend I am. Colors is the real deal in that regard. The proclaimed 'huge fans' who aren't willing to embrace other things are the problem, which in a way gives you and me an advantage. We're casual fans but detached enough to see what's going on.
Ray Fisher revealed he was persuaded to not implicate Geoff Johns in any wrongdoing, but he refused.
Quote from: Geoff Johns
So you can better understand how deep this goes:
After speaking out about Justice League, I received a phone call from the President of DC Films wherein he attempted to throw Joss Whedon and Jon Berg under the bus in hopes that I would relent on Geoff Johns.
I will not.
A>E
Source: https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1301949796081696769
Without actually naming anyone, the President of DC Films who Fisher is referring to is Walter Hamada.
So what does Hamada do? Well, it appears he and the cowardly studio is now using the f***ing media to do a hit piece on Fisher.
Quote
Breaking: The fight between Warner Bros and #JusticeLeague actor @ray8fisher takes a more intense turn as the studio defends DC film chief Walter Hamada and says that Fisher isn't even cooperating with its investigation.
https://twitter.com/Borys_Kit/status/1302088874286481409
Right, this is the same f***ing studio that lied to the whole world over the reshoots and disrespected Snyder during a time of anguish. Who more than likely endorsed hit pieces on outlets like Wall Street Journal for dismissing the Snyder cut's existence. Not to mention it was only a few months ago they hastily prepared a press statement that Jason Momoa would star in a new production with Berg and Johns right after Fisher publically called those two producers out.
After WB's disgraceful track record recently, I'm lead to believe Fisher is being a troublemaker? An actor who has so much to lose despite being put on the backburner ever since Josstice League? I highly doubt.
The sooner AT&T cleans house at WB, the better. Walter Hamada, Toby Emmerich, Geoff Johns, Jon Berg and any other vulture who is associated with them need to GTFO.
Fisher has called out on WB's bullsh*t. The latest tweet he sent includes a screenshot of an email he sent to his legal team over a discussion he had with an investigator working on behalf of Warner Bros Pictures. I love how the email includes a timestamp too.
https://deadline.com/2020/09/justice-league-ray-fisher-fires-back-at-warner-bros-1234571413/
I've seen videos of Fisher saying he'd be willing to be taken to court if he had slandered the accusers in any way. I don't know about anyone else, but I appreciate his bravery and integrity for standing up to these lying, corrupt pricks.
Fisher uploaded a video on Instagram and talked about his meeting with Walter Hamada, and he mentioned that Johns called him in 2018 to gloat how he cast someone else to play Cyborg in another DC production. Which happens to be Doom Patrol.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CEzfKhdpZDh/
Keep in mind that this accusation would've taken place months after Josstice League came out. Shocking.
One picture upload from Jason Momoa says it all. You have to admire his and Fisher's loyalty.
https://deadline.com/2020/09/aquaman-jason-momoa-backs-ray-fisher-justice-league-warner-bros-fight-1234572697/
That puts WB into an awkward position, doesn't it?
To be fair to everyone, Fisher has been long on accusations but short on specifics. What was said/done? By whom? When? What should have been done that wasn't done? Who was negligent? How/In what way?
Fisher seems to share this annoying tendency a lot of people seem to have of saying just enough to harm someone else's reputation but not quite enough to cross the line in terms of being held legally responsible for his speech.
Until he finally nuts up, even I will only take his accusations seriously up to a point.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 10 Sep 2020, 18:06
To be fair to everyone, Fisher has been long on accusations but short on specifics. What was said/done? By whom? When? What should have been done that wasn't done? Who was negligent? How/In what way?
Fisher seems to share this annoying tendency a lot of people seem to have of saying just enough to harm someone else's reputation but not quite enough to cross the line in terms of being held legally responsible for his speech.
Until he finally nuts up, even I will only take his accusations seriously up to a point.
I've been thinking the same. I'm siding with Ray because I dislike Whedon that much - and as I said on July 1, EVEN IF THE ALLEGATIONS WERE BOGUS. Joss deserves this treatment, and it's awkward for him and the woke studio to battle a black man. We must believe ALL victims no matter what, right?
Taking that hat off for a moment: there could be more, but looking at the current allegations in legal terms...so far there doesn't seem to be much there. Johns calling Ray to gloat someone else had been cast as Cyborg is a dick move, but is it anything more than that? What's the crime? And unless he recorded the conversation it's hearsay.
Hopefully more details emerge that properly explain how the relationship between actor and studio soured. Otherwise it's just going to get awkward, with Ray always talking about vetting investigators and withholding key information 'for a later date'. Is he a Jussie Smollett or a Bubba Wallace? I don't know. I'd hope not. But hopefully Whedon is sweating in any case. Let's see where this goes.
First Momoa, and now Kiersey Clemons aka Iris West, has posted her support for Fisher.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhqyN8QX0AE5ZpK?format=jpg&name=small)
https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1304550999349231618
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 10 Sep 2020, 18:06
To be fair to everyone, Fisher has been long on accusations but short on specifics. What was said/done? By whom? When? What should have been done that wasn't done? Who was negligent? How/In what way?
Fisher seems to share this annoying tendency a lot of people seem to have of saying just enough to harm someone else's reputation but not quite enough to cross the line in terms of being held legally responsible for his speech.
Until he finally nuts up, even I will only take his accusations seriously up to a point.
At this point, I'm inclined to trust the actor who is likely putting his own career on the line than the corporation that has established themselves as deceitful and untrustworthy.
Remember, shortly after Fisher publicly condemned Whedon, Berg and Johns a few months ago, WB delivered this press release that Jason Momoa would star in Frosty the Snowman produced by those two producers - not to mention that Berg deflected any of Fisher's accusations by trying to paint him as a prima donna. The fact that Johns and Berg are still at the company, despite costing the studio A LOT of revenue when their reshooting of JL backfired and created this whole Snyder cut saga to begin with is incomprehensible. Any other studio would've fired their asses for creating this PR sh*tstorm and bungling their lucrative IP.
I understand it's frustrating that we don't know what the specifics of his complaints are, but hopefully this situation gets resolved soon. As long as Fisher isn't undermining his own case, I honestly don't mind if he shares vague details. Let's hope this causes WB to be shaken up and get those corrupt dickheads out of there. Let's face it, if were up to WB, ZSJL would remain locked up in a vault to this day. In this case, I'm glad AT&T bought the place.
Junkie XL theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqia3oeBnVw
As a Joss fan I stand with Joss. Plus Fisher isn't really saying much about what kind of abuse he suffered.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 17:50
Junkie XL theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqia3oeBnVw
Thanks for posting this. Sounds great and obviously fits in perfectly to Snyder's world. Really hoping it gets an iTunes release because the fans are definitely going to buy anything related to this project. Elfman's JL score being good or bad is beside the point - IT SHOULDN'T BE THERE.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 10 Sep 2020, 22:50I've been thinking the same. I'm siding with Ray because I dislike Whedon that much - and as I said on July 1, EVEN IF THE ALLEGATIONS WERE BOGUS. Joss deserves this treatment, and it's awkward for him and the woke studio to battle a black man. We must believe ALL victims no matter what, right?
Quite so. And as you probably remember, there are plenty of other stories about Whedon making the rounds. Some of them are credible enough that an online Whedon fan community shut its doors forever because the guy is obviously such a hypocrite.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 10 Sep 2020, 22:50Taking that hat off for a moment: there could be more, but looking at the current allegations in legal terms...so far there doesn't seem to be much there. Johns calling Ray to gloat someone else had been cast as Cyborg is a dick move, but is it anything more than that? What's the crime? And unless he recorded the conversation it's hearsay.
Hopefully more details emerge that properly explain how the relationship between actor and studio soured. Otherwise it's just going to get awkward, with Ray always talking about vetting investigators and withholding key information 'for a later date'. Is he a Jussie Smollett or a Bubba Wallace? I don't know. I'd hope not. But hopefully Whedon is sweating in any case. Let's see where this goes.
This whole time, I keep thinking of Hannibal Burris. Time was, Burris was literally the only guy in the room shouting Bill Cosby's sins from the rooftops. But eventually, his accusations caught a little bit of traction and Cosby eventually got what was coming to him.
I'm not saying Fisher is sitting on a time bomb that powerful. But if he's sitting on anything at all, the best thing he can do is say his piece, either privately or publicly and let The System handle things from there.
But vague accusations like this are little b!tch moves that only losers do. Speaking of which...
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 05:20At this point, I'm inclined to trust the actor who is likely putting his own career on the line than the corporation that has established themselves as deceitful and untrustworthy.
What risk? Fisher hasn't exactly been busy since Josstice League flopped. He has nothing to lose by going down with the ship. If he makes WB bleed, he might be able to scare up work for himself elsewhere.
I'm not saying that's definitely his move. But I am saying that I see no real risk in what he's doing right now.
Momoa? Yeah, he's taking a risk. Because he
does have something to lose. Which is literally the only reason I'm still willing to give Fisher come consideration. But Fisher really needs to get specific either on Twitter or with the investigators he's apparently ducking if he wants to be taken seriously.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 19:39
Momoa? Yeah, he's taking a risk. Because he does have something to lose. Which is literally the only reason I'm still willing to give Fisher come consideration. But Fisher really needs to get specific either on Twitter or with the investigators he's apparently ducking if he wants to be taken seriously.
Then this should ease your doubts over Fisher, because Momoa has SLAMMED WB right now on Instagram.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh6MesGWkAEjQqN?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 14 Sep 2020, 22:52
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 19:39
Momoa? Yeah, he's taking a risk. Because he does have something to lose. Which is literally the only reason I'm still willing to give Fisher come consideration. But Fisher really needs to get specific either on Twitter or with the investigators he's apparently ducking if he wants to be taken seriously.
Then this should ease your doubts over Fisher, because Momoa has SLAMMED WB right now on Instagram.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh6MesGWkAEjQqN?format=jpg&name=large)
What "sh*tty stuff" happened? To whom? By whom? All due respect to Momoa but he's being no more specific than Fisher. I'm not saying either of them are wrong or lying or anything. But it's time to make specific accusations against specific people about specific wrongdoing already. WB is doing damage control, for sure. And the thing is, they have a leg to stand on for some people because they're defending against vague accusations. If Fisher and Momoa want real "accountability", they need to say in no uncertain terms what happened, who did it and who allowed it to go on.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 15 Sep 2020, 14:54
WB is doing damage control, for sure. And the thing is, they have a leg to stand on for some people because they're defending against vague accusations.
I don't see how WB have a leg to stand on at all. No matter how vague the accusations are, the fact of the matter is that Momoa has called bullsh*t on that Frosty press release and said it was a tactic to divert attention away from Fisher's complaints. That alone is an extremely bad look. Where the hell is the accountability in that?
From what I understand, WB Pictures are operating their own investigation to cover up for themselves, but they're are saying to the media that the matter is dealt with by the parent company WarnerMedia. It's very shady stuff. Whether or not legality is preventing the cast from coming forward to provide specific details in public, there is definitely a sense of frustration over the matter not being investigated properly.
The sooner WB gets cleaned up, the better. It's a mess.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 15 Sep 2020, 14:54
What "sh*tty stuff" happened? To whom? By whom? All due respect to Momoa but he's being no more specific than Fisher. I'm not saying either of them are wrong or lying or anything. But it's time to make specific accusations against specific people about specific wrongdoing already. WB is doing damage control, for sure. And the thing is, they have a leg to stand on for some people because they're defending against vague accusations. If Fisher and Momoa want real "accountability", they need to say in no uncertain terms what happened, who did it and who allowed it to go on.
It's all very thin so far. The distraction talk is mindreading, meaning he can't prove that and it wouldn't hold up in court. Did it stop him stop tweeting? No it didn't. IMO the deciding factor for all this is their definition of 'serious stuff'.
Ray and Momoa would greatly help their cause if they gave specific details. Otherwise I'm just seeing a prolonged slow burn campaign. I dislike Whedon as much as anybody but I actually don't think I'd be worried about that too much if I were him. People lose interest after a while and see nothing is coming from it.
Lead with the real dirt now. I'm hoping they provide that in due course.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 15 Sep 2020, 14:54
What "sh*tty stuff" happened? To whom? By whom? All due respect to Momoa but he's being no more specific than Fisher. I'm not saying either of them are wrong or lying or anything. But it's time to make specific accusations against specific people about specific wrongdoing already.
The situation is starting to remind me of Franz Kafka's novel The Trial, in which the main protagonist is informed he's being tried by a mysterious court that's independent of the state judiciary, but they won't tell him what specific crime he's being charged with. Consequently he's forced to mount a legal defence without even knowing what it is he's meant to have done wrong. I'm not saying Fisher's a liar or that the folks at WB are innocent (I'll wait for the full facts before rendering judgement), only that the trial-by-Twitter approach is very Kafkaesque.
Fisher claims Affleck's return for The Flash was meant to be announced at DC FanDome, but it was pushed forward a few days earlier as a PR tactic.
https://www.twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1305924305029672960
That would make sense. I never understood why the Affleck news wasn't saved for the event. Still, that's not quite as bad as lying about Momoa starring in a production without his permission.
Hopefully the investigation gets under control so the actors can be free from any legality and say what exactly happened. I hope it means getting some corrupt people fired from WB too.
In the meantime, I've found this neat little video of Junkie XL's score with footage from ZS5L trailer. Although it seems the official title may be Justice League: Director's Cut.
https://youtu.be/-6lamJDRnFQ
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 16 Sep 2020, 13:08
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 15 Sep 2020, 14:54
What "sh*tty stuff" happened? To whom? By whom? All due respect to Momoa but he's being no more specific than Fisher. I'm not saying either of them are wrong or lying or anything. But it's time to make specific accusations against specific people about specific wrongdoing already.
The situation is starting to remind me of Franz Kafka's novel The Trial, in which the main protagonist is informed he's being tried by a mysterious court that's independent of the state judiciary, but they won't tell him what specific crime he's being charged with. Consequently he's forced to mount a legal defence without even knowing what it is he's meant to have done wrong. I'm not saying Fisher's a liar or that the folks at WB are innocent (I'll wait for the full facts before rendering judgement), only that the trial-by-Twitter approach is very Kafkaesque.
Last year really opened my eyes to how ridiculous that approach really is. There was a documentary released called "Leaving Neverland" that I found to be very compelling. A lot of people on Twitter supported the two subjects of the documentary, and the two men were put on talk shows to to discuss the trauma of child sexual abuse. Oprah even gathered a whole crowd of CSA victims to do a q&a with the the two men from the film. Shortly after that it came to light that multiple aspects of the accusers stories didn't add up or were flat out lies. Even after this Oprah refused to apologize, and there are people who still believe both of these men's stories. For me it was a wake up call. Innocent until PROVEN guilty is there for a reason. That's what separates us from people doing witch hunts. I'm not believing or disbelieving Ray Fisher's story until evidence comes out.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 16 Sep 2020, 13:08
The situation is starting to remind me of Franz Kafka's novel The Trial, in which the main protagonist is informed he's being tried by a mysterious court that's independent of the state judiciary, but they won't tell him what specific crime he's being charged with. Consequently he's forced to mount a legal defence without even knowing what it is he's meant to have done wrong. I'm not saying Fisher's a liar or that the folks at WB are innocent (I'll wait for the full facts before rendering judgement), only that the trial-by-Twitter approach is very Kafkaesque.
Yep. I say push it out now or get off the toilet. I read elsewhere he claims the Batfleck announcement was done to cover up his tweets. To which I say "prove it", and even if proven (it can't be because nobody is a mind reader), I say "and?" If WB can come out with a Cavill announcement to apparently cover up Fisher's newer posts I'd sure appreciate it right now. If we go by this logic, is Ray 'guilty' of trying to smother the hype for Zack's movie? If
serious crimes exist, please get the facts out there Ray. The longer this drags on my skepticism increases.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Wed, 16 Sep 2020, 22:19
Innocent until PROVEN guilty is there for a reason. That's what separates us from people doing witch hunts. I'm not believing or disbelieving Ray Fisher's story until evidence comes out.
I dislike Whedon a lot but deep down I know this is a very important thing to remember. I just wish the likes of Whedon remembered it, too.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 17 Sep 2020, 01:04
Yep. I say push it out now or get off the toilet. I read elsewhere he claims the Batfleck announcement was done to cover up his tweets. To which I say "prove it", and even if proven (it can't be because nobody is a mind reader), I say "and?" If WB can come out with a Cavill announcement to apparently cover up Fisher's newer posts I'd sure appreciate it right now. If we go by this logic, is Ray 'guilty' of trying to smother the hype for Zack's movie? If serious crimes exist, please get the facts out there Ray. The longer this drags on my skepticism increases.
You say this despite the fact the whole Snyder cut saga started because WB lied to everyone about the reshoots, as well as Momoa debunking their latest lie. I guess Momoa should be treated with skepticism too, going by your logic?
If anything, nobody should be giving WB the benefit of the doubt anymore. Besides, from what I understand, the actors are encouraged to be vague as possible because of legal complications involved in the investigation. It definitely should never have come to this, but that goes to show what an awful basketcase WB has been in the last few years. Don't blame the actors, blame the rotten studio that caused this debacle in the first place.
I can't stress how many times that place needs to be cleaned up.
WarnerMedia is investigating all facets of its workplace culture following recent controversies with Ellen DeGeneres and other productions. Let's hope this includes what happened behind the scenes on JL.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/warnermedia-leaders-concerned-and-disappointed-with-internal-culture-reports-memos-say
Meanwhile, The Cultured Nerd has claimed a scoop: Henry Cavill has allegedly signed a new deal to continue playing Superman.
https://theculturednerd.org/2020/09/exclusive-henry-cavill-signs-new-superman-film-deal/
I would normally take this with a grain of salt, but Cavill's agent posted this artwork by BossLogic on her Instagram story.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiOEGjKUYAEzwTJ?format=jpg&name=large)
And apparently, Jim Lee liked the post too.
https://twitter.com/WhiteWolf_14/status/1307017302391640065
Is it a coincidence, since Cavill was rumoured to return for future cameos in DC films? Is it possible that TCN's scoop is true? We'll have to wait and find out.
By the way, if anyone suspects that this news is used as a distraction from Ray Fisher's accusations, TCN have made it very clear on what their stance is on the subject:
Quote
But as a sobering reminder, let's not let the #Superman news distract from the importance of what @ray8fisher is doing now. Accountability should always take priority over entertainment and thankfully @WarnerMedia is finally taking this seriously. #borglife #IstandwithRayFisher
https://twitter.com/TheCulturedNerd/status/1307034972289748994
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 19 Sep 2020, 02:10
WarnerMedia is investigating all facets of its workplace culture following recent controversies with Ellen DeGeneres and other productions. Let's hope this includes what happened behind the scenes on JL.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/warnermedia-leaders-concerned-and-disappointed-with-internal-culture-reports-memos-say
Meanwhile, The Cultured Nerd has claimed a scoop: Henry Cavill has allegedly signed a new deal to continue playing Superman.
https://theculturednerd.org/2020/09/exclusive-henry-cavill-signs-new-superman-film-deal/
I would normally take this with a grain of salt, but Cavill's agent posted this artwork by BossLogic on her Instagram story.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiOEGjKUYAEzwTJ?format=jpg&name=large)
And apparently, Jim Lee liked the post too.
https://twitter.com/WhiteWolf_14/status/1307017302391640065
Is it a coincidence, since Cavill was rumoured to return for future cameos in DC films? Is it possible that TCN's scoop is true? We'll have to wait and find out.
By the way, if anyone suspects that this news is used as a distraction from Ray Fisher's accusations, TCN have made it very clear on what their stance is on the subject:
Quote
But as a sobering reminder, let's not let the #Superman news distract from the importance of what @ray8fisher is doing now. Accountability should always take priority over entertainment and thankfully @WarnerMedia is finally taking this seriously. #borglife #IstandwithRayFisher
https://twitter.com/TheCulturedNerd/status/1307034972289748994
If he has a new deal for playing Superman, it's a bit silly to think that he'll only be doing cameos. So perhaps we should expect to see actual Superman films.
I want Snyder back for any DCEU material. I'm not picky. But specifically, I would love to see him come back to Superman.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 19 Sep 2020, 02:15
If he has a new deal for playing Superman, it's a bit silly to think that he'll be doing a lot more than just cameos. So perhaps we should expect to see actual Superman films.
I want Snyder back for any DCEU material. I'm not picky. But specifically, I would love to see him come back to Superman.
I'd love for this to be true. I see Jim Lee liked a post, so that's worth mentioning.
IMO the original Snyder plan is over, and if new movies are made they'll be self contained. The cameo stuff could be legit, perhaps with two appearances building up to one solo film? Ideally they'd all be solo films but let's see if this is a real prospect first. I'd take that, absolutely. Better than the best Superman being aged out of the role. Adams, Fishburne and the team back together again would melt minds.
I've read somewhere that Dwayne Johnson has been vocal about wanting a Black Adam vs Cavill Superman fight to happen somewhere, and if that's the case, that helps out Henry a lot in negotiating with AT&T/Warners.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 19 Sep 2020, 02:15
I want Snyder back for any DCEU material. I'm not picky. But specifically, I would love to see him come back to Superman.
This. This. THIS!
You wanna talk about the epitome of cinematic gratification? Especially in light of the feckless Warners circus Snyder DCEU supporters have had to endure over the years.
"AT&T officially announces MOS 2 directed by Zack Snyder and starring Henry Cavill."
That may just very well make the years of BS all worth it. *sigh*
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 19 Sep 2020, 05:47This. This. THIS!
You wanna talk about the epitome of cinematic gratification? Especially in light of the feckless Warners circus Snyder DCEU supporters have had to endure over the years.
"AT&T officially announces MOS 2 directed by Zack Snyder and starring Henry Cavill."
That may just very well make the years of BS all worth it. *sigh*
Mostly, I want to see what he can do when he's not trying to simultaneously make an entertaining film while also putting down an internal coup against him.
There's the issue of vindication. I get that. And I even want that. But this really is a creative thing for me rather than a vengeful thing.
(But yeah, stick it to 'em, F those people)
After all the recent Batman movie announcements, I was thinking how amazing it would be if WB made a similar commitment to Superman. Imagine if they announced that over the next three years we were getting:
• Man of Steel II starring Henry Cavill, with the likelihood of at least one more sequel
• A standalone live action Red Son film under the DC Black label
• A Lois & Clark reunion miniseries, starring Cain and Hatcher, co-written and produced by Cain
• Superman IV: The Furie Cut (aka The Quest for Dignity)
• A new Superman animated series done in the style of The Brave & the Bold, focusing on the wackier Silver Age comics
I reckon this would make a nice apology for the way the character has been sidelined in recent years.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 20 Sep 2020, 16:12
After all the recent Batman movie announcements, I was thinking how amazing it would be if WB made a similar commitment to Superman. Imagine if they announced that over the next three years we were getting:
• Man of Steel II starring Henry Cavill, with the likelihood of at least one more sequel
• A standalone live action Red Son film under the DC Black label
• A Lois & Clark reunion miniseries, starring Cain and Hatcher, co-written and produced by Cain
• Superman IV: The Furie Cut (aka The Quest for Dignity)
• A new Superman animated series done in the style of The Brave & the Bold, focusing on the wackier Silver Age comics
I reckon this would make a nice apology for the way the character has been sidelined in recent years.
There might be complications with Superman IV. I'm not sure how much deleted footage has survived. There's rough footage stuff out there but the original negatives for the deleted scenes seem lost. The rough cut stuff seems to be as good as it gets. But the original Furie rough cut that was previewed to audiences might still be buried in some vault somewhere.
My signature wishlist item isn't even a Superman film. It would be more like
Young Superboy directed by Brad Bird starring an eleven or twelve year old as Superboy as he grows into adulthood, has occasional adventures with the Legion, makes enemies with Lex, loses his foster parents, etc. Basically, a valentine to everything Superboy contributed to the Pre-Crisis
MYTH of Superman. I would want it to be in the same basic vocabulary as The New Adventures Of Superboy series from the 1980s.
It'll never happen (and maybe it shouldn't because I think I'm the only one who wants it) but it's been on the wishlist for a long time now.
I think MOS II is highly likely at this point. Obviously, everything is riding on ZSJL. But aside from that, I can't imagine MOS II not happening. Bonus points if Snyder returns to direct it, which would be my preference. Not a requirement. But definitely a preference. I might prefer that Deborah Joy-Levine produce it but Cain is a solid choice.
I maintain that a four or five episode coda for L&C would be a big draw for HBO Max. That show still has a loyal fanbase consisting of people who aren't specifically Superman fans or comic book readers. It was a
chick flick TV show with a fairly strong following among adult women. They might not be a highly sought-after demographic but they still represent a demographic that Superman usually doesn't reach. They're an audience who should be courted (to a degree) since HBO Max needs all the subscribers it can get. The FOLCs would subscribe to HBO Max for a Lois & Clark revival.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 20 Sep 2020, 16:48
I maintain that a four or five episode coda for L&C would be a big draw for HBO Max. That show still has a loyal fanbase consisting of people who aren't specifically Superman fans or comic book readers. It was a chick flick TV show with a fairly strong following among adult women. They might not be a highly sought-after demographic but they still represent a demographic that Superman usually doesn't reach. They're an audience who should be courted (to a degree) since HBO Max needs all the subscribers it can get. The FOLCs would subscribe to HBO Max for a Lois & Clark revival.
I'd be surprised if Dean Cain will ever star in another mainstream production in the near future. I've read some comments on Reddit speculating that Hollywood has blacklisted him because of his political views. That might explain why he wasn't involved in CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths.
Over the weekend, a new picture of Batfleck from ZSJL was released.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiTAJEyXcAMY44d?format=jpg)
https://twitter.com/snydercut/status/1307381063237472256
Now THAT is Batman. (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 22 Sep 2020, 09:54I'd be surprised if Dean Cain will ever star in another mainstream production in the near future. I've read some comments on Reddit speculating that Hollywood has blacklisted him because of his political views. That might explain why he wasn't involved in CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths.
That could be true.
But with AT&T running things now... well, I don't think they care about Hollywood politics and stupid junior high lunchroom cooties stuff. I think they only want to make money. If they perceive a chance to turn some bux from hiring Cain for something, I think they would do it and F the entertainment world's asinine political ramifications over it.
I found this very good video analysing - and ridiculing - the misinformation surrounding bloggers' reactions towards the news of the cast getting to shoot additional photography some time this month.
https://youtu.be/qkDW6BoARjg
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 1 Oct 2020, 00:31
I found this very good video analysing - and ridiculing - the misinformation surrounding bloggers' reactions towards the news of the cast getting to shoot additional photography some time this month.
https://youtu.be/qkDW6BoARjg
The video raises a good point. The cost of completing the film was originally estimated to be something like $10-$30 million. The assumption a lot of us made is that HBO Max was seeking (relatively) cheap content that they could complete and slap out there for a fast buck.
Based on that, my analysis was that this was nothing more than a business proposition for HBO Max and nobody should expect too much from the Snyderverse... unless ZSJL did
REALLY well.
But the $70+ million price tag does go a long way toward supporting the people who claimed that HBO was all in on Snyder's vision. The idea of not just finishing the compromised version of the film but restoring the original vision Snyder had is a ballsy step and I agree that it doesn't make sense to do that unless more is at least hoped for by all parties involved. Good on him for addressing that so thoroughly.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 1 Oct 2020, 00:31
I found this very good video analysing - and ridiculing - the misinformation surrounding bloggers' reactions towards the news of the cast getting to shoot additional photography some time this month.
https://youtu.be/qkDW6BoARjg
They're assuming that we'll get the original vision for Justice League along with Justice League 2&3. I'm going to wait on official word on that before I believe it.
Does anybody know what the original crazy idea was that Snyder and Terrio has to cut out?
My questions:
Is this extra content needed to bring it up to four hours?
If so, what is the current runtime without the new content?
Cavill isn't involved in the new content, which leads to me believe it's taking place earlier in the film before Big Blue is resurrected.
I've seen speculation that perhaps it's stuff like Batman finding a Parademon nest, eg, stuff that was in concept but not filmed or properly realized. If HBO Max is all in with the Snyderverse, and I absolutely hope they are, fingers crossed Snyder's Easter egg teases to other films are included.
There was talk of Bruce being visited by a Green Lantern at the glasshouse. That could be the stuff they're doing.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 1 Oct 2020, 11:33
My questions:
Is this extra content needed to bring it up to four hours?
If so, what is the current runtime without the new content?
Cavill isn't involved in the new content, which leads to me believe it's taking place earlier in the film before Big Blue is resurrected.
I've seen speculation that perhaps it's stuff like Batman finding a Parademon nest, eg, stuff that was in concept but not filmed or properly realized. If HBO Max is all in with the Snyderverse, and I absolutely hope they are, fingers crossed Snyder's Easter egg teases to other films are included.
There was talk of Bruce being visited by a Green Lantern at the glasshouse. That could be the stuff they're doing.
As far as I know it's currently 214 minutes.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 1 Oct 2020, 11:33
My questions:
Is this extra content needed to bring it up to four hours?
If so, what is the current runtime without the new content?
Cavill isn't involved in the new content, which leads to me believe it's taking place earlier in the film before Big Blue is resurrected.
I've seen speculation that perhaps it's stuff like Batman finding a Parademon nest, eg, stuff that was in concept but not filmed or properly realized. If HBO Max is all in with the Snyderverse, and I absolutely hope they are, fingers crossed Snyder's Easter egg teases to other films are included.
There was talk of Bruce being visited by a Green Lantern at the glasshouse. That could be the stuff they're doing.
I've wondered if some of the additional filming might be extending existing scenes. Screenwriting for features requires a lot of discipline and efficiency. There's often not enough time to really indulge a given idea before moving on to the next scene. I'm curious if some scenes might get extended to pad out an episodic release format.
If the assembly cut was five hours, I think it's reasonable to suggest there's at least 3.5 hours of releasable material in there. Perhaps the additional filming is intended to allow five or six "episodes"?
Some movies have scenes that scream to be extended (but they can't be). In Jaws, there's a bit where Hooper and Brodie go cruising on a boat in search of the shark (or anything, really). Every single time I watch that scene, I always want it to be extended 15 or 20 minutes. The dialogue, the lights, the music, the atmosphere, it's just an amazing moment in the film for me. I want to more fully indulge that particular moment. My hope is that Snyder might extend really cool scenes in that same type of way. Something that was already good on its own merits but brief, like the Hooper/Brodie thing in Jaws.
No idea if I'm making sense here since I got practically no sleep last night.
I'm never going to say no to more content filmed by the great man, Zack Snyder. But in some respects I'd prefer Justice League to be wholly the film that exists in the can from 2017. It seems extra filmed content is this movie's destiny, be it with the disgrace that is WhedonLeague, or now ZSJL. All I ask is that the content filmed in 2020 feels natural and blends in with the existing footage from three or so years ago. The actors have aged slightly but I'm sure it will be fine.
Intriguing comments from Henry Cavill:
Quote
I'm just really excited to see his vision realized. He got to be the train. I think it's only fair that that train gets to reach its station which he was aiming for, and I think it's important that that vision is realized. Whether you agree with it or not, it doesn't matter. It's a storyteller's, it's a filmmaker's right to have that vision realized. I'm excited to see it. I'm excited to see what that vision was and how it looks.
[Zack's] got the advantage of hindsight now. It's going to be even better. I just want to see a good movie or a series of movies.
https://theculturednerd.org/2020/10/henry-cavill-on-the-snyder-cut-and-the-realization-of-a-storytellers-vision/
Should anyone read into his comment about "a series of movies"?
I think the "series of movies" means the 4 part installments with how it'll be released on HBO Max....but who knows?
While Joe Manganiello was evasive to give an answer over whether or not he'll join the additional photography for ZSJL, he revealed (perhaps unsurprisingly) that the Deathstroke scene was altered once Affleck's Batman film was canceled. In other words, the project was already scrapped during the reshoots.
Forgive me for using the video below with its interrupted commentary, but I didn't want to source the clickbait outlets that would spin this story.
https://youtu.be/XRUwo45vzs4?t=3533
Judging by the internal sabotage that was going on, I strongly doubt the producers envisioned any future with JL without a complete reboot. Knowing what we know now, I'm hard-pressed to believe it was a deliberate effort to write off the franchise.
Now that the director's vision is getting restored, it's curious to know that the Deathstroke scene will also be restored as it was intended. I wonder why they'd do that if there are no real plans to continue the Snyderverse after the Snyder cut? Hmmm.
This is brilliant!
https://youtu.be/HvdPRIp9GJk
It's makes me want to play Justice League: Task Force on a SNES emulator.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 16 Oct 2020, 23:09
This is brilliant!
https://youtu.be/HvdPRIp9GJk
It's makes me want to play Justice League: Task Force on a SNES emulator.
Yeah, I have to agree with this... A tear was shed by the kid who used to play these carts (they also used some Batman Forever, The Adventures of Batman & Robin and Death and Return of Superman in there). But JL:TF... just isn't very good, either on SNES or MD.
JL: Task Force isn't very good, I agree. The game is even worse on the Sega Mega Drive/Genesis. The only good thing about that port is Darkseid's digitised voice at the start of the game.
THR has released an exclusive: not only is additional photography underway, Jared Leto is returning as the Joker too! :o
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/jared-leto-to-play-joker-in-zack-snyders-justice-league-exclusive
Surely this must increase the chances of David Ayer's Suicide Squad coming out, right?
Ayer welcomes back Leto's Joker.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ek42gbuXYAQ6tCG?format=jpg&name=large)
Hopefully Snyder actually uses him. Still not a fan of his look. Just ugly.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 22 Oct 2020, 18:33
Hopefully Snyder actually uses him. Still not a fan of his look. Just ugly.
Unless there's a flashback of Batfleck punching Joker's teeth out, I think this content will be exclusively for the Knightmare. Which can provide Snyder the perfect opportunity to provide Leto with a different aesthetic, just as he did with Knightmare Batfleck. Evidence suggests Joker's presence in the Knightmare would be organic and not something out of the blue.
(https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/A-Joker-Card-in-Zack-Snyders-Justice-League-compared-with-the-card-taped-to-Knightmare-Batmans-rifle.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=370&dpr=1.5)
Given the overall visual aesthetic of Ayer's Suicide Squad, I was willing to roll with Leto's modern 'gangster' appearance. As he honestly doesn't look out of place compared to the other character's appearances in that film. However, with Leto getting a second opportunity at the Joker, and given the controversy on even just his overall look by itself, I would find it kinda humorous if Leto's reemergence as the Joker in Snyder's JL includes an overhaul in his appearance.
Of course context is king in how/where Leto makes his return in Snyder's JL, but if say his presence is added to the epilogue Legion of Doom scene, you could kinda make a joke about the whole 'gangster' look, with Leto's Joker making a offhand comment that he was going thru a 'gangster' phase (with the tats and teeth grillz), and is now in a different frame of mind (and thus, appearance). Which, would kinda evoke that whole 'Super Sanity' deal Grant Morrison introduced in explaining why the Joker's personality has shifted throughout his history (pre-Three Jokers explanation there).
Snyder being the gentleman that he is, wouldn't implement such a change if he thought it would piss Ayer off I'm sure. But it's not out of the realm of possibility that Ayer wouldn't give his blessing for such a change. Actually, it would honestly be in keeping with Leto's Joker personality too I believe. As what little we saw of him in the two cuts of Ayer's Suicide Squad that have been released, it seemed pretty evident that Leto's Joker more or less feeds more off of his immediate emotions, while exhibiting a distinct disinhibition. Rather than displaying any sort of measure of meticulous control.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 22 Oct 2020, 22:41Given the overall visual aesthetic of Ayer's Suicide Squad, I was willing to roll with Leto's modern 'gangster' appearance. As he honestly doesn't look out of place compared to the other character's appearances in that film. However, with Leto getting a second opportunity at the Joker, and given the controversy on even just his overall look by itself, I would find it kinda humorous if Leto's reemergence as the Joker in Snyder's JL includes an overhaul in his appearance.
I was repulsed by his aesthetic initially, but now I'm indifferent. The Ayer cut really needs to be released, and especially now his DCEU foothold is being strengthened with additional material in ZSJL. A one-off oddity can become something greater.
Leto does not deserve this poor man's Joker reputation because he was sabotaged by a ruthless editing bay. Love or hate the intent behind this version, let's see it all. Let him fly free and judge his performance properly. He'll probably never be a fan favorite akin to Nicholson, Ledger or Phoenix I'm confident his reputation would markedly improve.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 22 Oct 2020, 22:41Of course context is king in how/where Leto makes his return in Snyder's JL, but if say his presence is added to the epilogue Legion of Doom scene, you could kinda make a joke about the whole 'gangster' look, with Leto's Joker making a offhand comment that he was going thru a 'gangster' phase (with the tats and teeth grillz), and is now in a different frame of mind (and thus, appearance). Which, would kinda evoke that whole 'Super Sanity' deal Grant Morrison introduced in explaining why the Joker's personality has shifted throughout his history (pre-Three Jokers explanation there).
If it's Knightmare stuff, does Snyder show Joker working with Batman in an unholy alliance (which I do believe happened and it would be insanely awesome to see), or does he continue the Knightmare forward by having Joker react to Batman's death at the hands of Superman? That alone would be fascinating to see. Is he happy or depressed? I'd be inclined to say the latter, because he didn't do the deed himself. I'd be okay with either scenario.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 22 Oct 2020, 22:41
Given the overall visual aesthetic of Ayer's Suicide Squad, I was willing to roll with Leto's modern 'gangster' appearance. As he honestly doesn't look out of place compared to the other character's appearances in that film. However, with Leto getting a second opportunity at the Joker, and given the controversy on even just his overall look by itself, I would find it kinda humorous if Leto's reemergence as the Joker in Snyder's JL includes an overhaul in his appearance.
Of course context is king in how/where Leto makes his return in Snyder's JL, but if say his presence is added to the epilogue Legion of Doom scene, you could kinda make a joke about the whole 'gangster' look, with Leto's Joker making a offhand comment that he was going thru a 'gangster' phase (with the tats and teeth grillz), and is now in a different frame of mind (and thus, appearance). Which, would kinda evoke that whole 'Super Sanity' deal Grant Morrison introduced in explaining why the Joker's personality has shifted throughout his history (pre-Three Jokers explanation there).
Snyder being the gentleman that he is, wouldn't implement such a change if he thought it would piss Ayer off I'm sure. But it's not out of the realm of possibility that Ayer wouldn't give his blessing for such a change. Actually, it would honestly be in keeping with Leto's Joker personality too I believe. As what little we saw of him in the two cuts of Ayer's Suicide Squad that have been released, it seemed pretty evident that Leto's Joker more or less feeds more off of his immediate emotions, while exhibiting a distinct disinhibition. Rather than displaying any sort of measure of meticulous control.
As far as I know, the Legion of Doom epilogue was a Johns/Whedon rewrite, and not what Snyder had ever intended.
While we're on the subject about Leto's Joker, The Cultured Nerd has yet again shared new rumours of this supposed Batfleck show, which includes exploring Robin's murder backstory and how it led to Batman going berserk and maiming Joker in a fit of rage, which resulted in those tattoos and grills. This video was uploaded less than a week before the Leto reveal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgPXT46Y8Tw
A day before Joker's return was leaked to THR, TCN ran an "exclusive" that Affleck has supposedly now signed a new deal for HBO Max. Much like how they claimed Cavill had already signed a new deal to continue playing Superman.
https://theculturednerd.org/2020/10/exclusive-ben-affleck-signs-on-for-hbo-max-and-more-films-as-batman/
I won't believe in anything until we get official quotes from Cavill and Affleck confirming whether or not their new contracts are true. The only thing that's keeping me hopeful is there is no logical reason to restore the Snyder cut to its original concept and bringing back all these characters unless there is going to be a continuation of some form.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 24 Oct 2020, 05:10The only thing that's keeping me hopeful is there is no logical reason to restore the Snyder cut to its original concept and bringing back all these characters unless there is going to be a continuation of some form.
Of course there is. AT&T wants to every last nickel of profit they can scrape together, the #ReleaseTheSnyderCut crowd have been vocal since the day after Josstice League came out and AT&T recognize an opportunity. The imperative here runs even deeper since the entertainment divisions are basically crippled right now during the lockdown.
Not trying to rain on anybody's parade; just saying alternative explanations do exist.
That said, if ZSJL is the big success that AT&T obviously want it to be then there's absolutely no reason to not continue the Snyderverse. I imagine that the rumors about getting actors signed to contracts are probably true. If the actors sign new contracts now then complicated negotiations later on can be avoided. If the movie comes out and tanks, the contracts will all be worthless pieces of paper. But if it's a big hit, the actors are already locked in and you won't have to deal with complex deal-making. It's a wise move and that's why I have no doubt that at least Cavill has signed something new.
If Affleck is coming back for more shooting (as seems to be the case), it seems like a good bet that he's got some type of new contract going too.
Everything I'm saying here could be totally wrong. I'm just saying that I see a
TON of business sense in getting the cast to sign contracts now rather than later.
If ZSJL sets up the Deathstroke conflict against Batfleck in a big way then there's a very good reason to suspect there will be a continuation. Manganiello is more than happy to reprise the role. Affleck is too. He's coming back for Flashpoint, which I keep having to remind myself about. For so long I mentally accepted his time in the franchise was up.
Honestly, Keaton will probably always be at the top for me, due to being good and having strong nostalgic pull. But I think Affleck is better overall. Leto didn't decline the invitation for ZSJL reshoots. So when you look at the stone cold facts, key Batfleck players that would be needed for a HBO Max solo film are still on board. If they're saying yes to ZSJL, why would they then say no to other Batfleck projects?
If they can arrange additional ZSJL scenes, a brand new film isn't much of a stretch.
I've read articles which claim another Superman film is possible with JJ Abrams, and the reaction to ZSJL will factor in to his decision to use Cavill or not. Who knows if this is true. All I know is if we support ZSJL like crazy, many possibilities are on the table. In any case, ZSJL will be a treat for DC fans.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 24 Oct 2020, 05:10
As far as I know, the Legion of Doom epilogue was a Johns/Whedon rewrite, and not what Snyder had ever intended.
So was the casting of Joe Manganiello as Deathstroke a Snyder deal, or was Joey M only brought in following the JOSStice League takeover?
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 30 Oct 2020, 05:04
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 24 Oct 2020, 05:10
As far as I know, the Legion of Doom epilogue was a Johns/Whedon rewrite, and not what Snyder had ever intended.
So was the casting of Joe Manganiello as Deathstroke a Snyder deal, or was Joey M only brought in following the JOSStice League takeover?
Manganiello was a Snyder/Affleck deal. Deathstroke was supposed to set up for Affleck's solo Batman film, until it was cancelled during the reshoots and the whole Deathstroke scene was reshot for that LOD improvisation.
Ray Fisher has accused Joss Whedon, Geoff Johns, Jon Berg and WB president Toby Emmerich of racism during the reshoots.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sherazfarooqi/2020/10/29/interview-ray-fisher-talks-toxic-justice-league-set-warnermedia-investigation-and-erasing-characters-of-color/?sh=5a4717d92518
I used to think the removal of Iris West, Ryan Choi, Victor Stone's mother and radically changing Silas Stone's arc were simply collateral damage in sabotaging Snyder's DCEU. But if Fisher's right and there was a racist component behind that agenda then that's truly despicable.
The most dubious thing about this article is the part where a spokesperson representing Whedon dismisses Fisher's allegations. He or she could've outright denied that Whedon was responsible for any abusive misconduct, but instead, they only focus and insist the coloring of one's skin was because of the process of converting from film to digital? Really? That's it? To me, they're tacitly admitting there was definitely abuse going on.
This follows up something else that bothered me about THR's reporting of Leto's return a week ago:
Quote
Sources close to Berg and Johns have confirmed the duo's intention to remove their names from the Snyder Cut since they did not work on this version and are no longer studio executives. The sources also say the move pays respect to Snyder's creative vision and the additional photography shoot.
It is unclear when Berg's and Johns' segue began. One source said the move began months ago and is unconnected to comments made by Fisher, who played Cyborg in the movie and who has for months accused the two of enabling abuse and misconduct by Whedon on the set of the 2017 reshoots. After vocal and public outbursts on social media even as late as September, Fisher has been less incendiary and posting less frequently of late.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/jared-leto-to-play-joker-in-zack-snyders-justice-league-exclusive
Clearly, this section was a hit piece against Fisher in an attempt to depict Johns and Berg as considerate people. Which is outrageous, because anybody who had followed the Snyder cut saga to a degree knows that Johns and Berg were saboteurs and liars. The rubbish over the fake Frosty the Snowman press release that Momoa called out is the latest piece of misconduct. If they wanted to spin such news then wouldn't it make more sense to do it when the Snyder cut was announced back in May?
My point is there was NO need to mention anything about Berg, Johns or Fisher at all. It had nothing to do with the Leto news.
It stinks. There's no doubt in my mind that the instigators behind Josstice League are going through outlets like THR to paint Fisher as a troublemaker. If Fisher were lying about everything he said then these people should sue him for slander. Instead, they're rather silent and hiding behind hit pieces and representatives trying to spin the narrative. It's pathetic.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 30 Oct 2020, 11:58
It stinks. There's no doubt in my mind that the instigators behind Josstice League are going through outlets like THR to paint Fisher as a troublemaker. If Fisher were lying about everything he said then these people should sue him for slander. Instead, they're rather silent and hiding behind hit pieces and representatives trying to spin the narrative. It's pathetic.
That Forbes article has been edited. Among the changes, the journalist who interviewed Fisher is suddenly a "former" contributor.
Talk about shooting the messenger. Emmerich, Whedon and co have reached a new low.
Grace Randolph has interviewed Zack Snyder for a second time, getting more insight into the additional photography, including Ben Affleck putting the suit back on and what to expect from Leto's Joker appearance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsY_bdXTmJ8
The DC FanDome trailer was pulled down recently because of apparent copyright issues over the Leonard Cohen song.
Have no fear though, it's taken care of. HBO Max has uploaded an updated version of the trailer on its YouTube channel, including a couple of new shots never seen before.
https://youtu.be/XIOU_k4mwDw
Snyder hosted a live stream commentary on Vero this morning, doing a breakdown of the trailer. My favourite moments was when he discussed his take on the physics surrounding the Speed Force and the Flash.
https://youtu.be/hSDGbownsCs
Oh, there's new updates I didn't know about. I'll have to look into that later today when I have time.
Getting more and more excited for this.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 19 Nov 2020, 13:39
Oh, there's new updates I didn't know about. I'll have to look into that later today when I have time.
Getting more and more excited for this.
This is the main event for 2021. Hand down.
Roughly four minutes of extra footage is pleasing to me, because the integrity of what was already filmed will be preserved and the new content is simply icing on the cake.
The brief clip of the Snydermobile in the new trailer was exciting. I think it's technically the best live action Batmobile even if only for the suspension it has. It's like a dirt buggy and can perform jumps that most others simply couldn't. It has style but it's not prissy. You can drive it through buildings without having to worry about scratching the paint, ala the Burtonmobile. Being low to the ground is also a big strategic plus, and the fact it can be modified with cannons and guns. Snyder and the team nailed the design - a nice blend of traditional and militaristic.
Good riddance to Joss Whedon.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nme.com/news/film/joss-whedon-leaves-hbo-series-the-nevers-following-investigation-ray-fisher-claims-2826959%3famp
Anyway, some detractors are bitching about how Steppenwolf appears here, but he looks much better than the poorly-rendered design from Josstice League.
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/72-zmHWfGvKK3pSGBjTdKctZ
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 3 Dec 2020, 02:57Anyway, some detractors are bitching about how Steppenwolf appears here, but he looks much better than the poorly-rendered design from Josstice League.
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/72-zmHWfGvKK3pSGBjTdKctZ
I don't have a horse in the race. I'm not crazy about either design, tbh. Hell, I'm not crazy about Steppenwolf full stop.
Snyder's design looks just plain evil while Whedon's design makes him seem more like the Articulate Tyrant Villain. Neither design impresses or depresses me.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 00:48
Hand down.
Damn, I only mentioned one hand, when I should've mentioned two. And at the time of posting I also forgot about The Matrix 4 now being moved to December. So I revise this: ZSJL and M4 are the main events next year. Hand
s down.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 3 Dec 2020, 04:39
I don't have a horse in the race. I'm not crazy about either design, tbh. Hell, I'm not crazy about Steppenwolf full stop.
I like the concept that he's formidable but a step down from Darkseid, who the League have to build up to.
ZSJL will likely be R rated, and it may get a cinema release simultaneously with HBO Max. This is how I'll be seeing it the first time if the option is available, 100%.
Batfleck will drop an F bomb, which doesn't seem out of left field to me when you consider his past.
BvS:
"That son of a bitch brought the war to us."
"Oh, sh*t."
WhedonLeague:
"Son of a bitch."
Snyder absolutely sees the farce going on right now with these gold comments:
"I feel like there's a lot of people panicking during COVID. I hope that, in the end, that's what this was — some sort of knee-jerk to COVID and not some sort of greater move to disrupt the theatrical experience."
My feelings are the same but not just in regards to the cinema experience. Zack was always one to share his opinion and be himself, so well done to him for going there.
https://ew.com/movies/zack-snyders-justice-league-theaters-r-rated/
Grace made the following comments:
(https://i.redd.it/0vkclr6jur561.png)
If this eventuates, March is very close indeed. Much closer than I expected. I'd be happy about the four hour movie option, but that was guaranteed anyway even if the four part serial was the initial release format.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 17 Dec 2020, 16:59
Grace made the following comments:
(https://i.redd.it/0vkclr6jur561.png)
If this eventuates, March is very close indeed. Much closer than I expected. I'd be happy about the four hour movie option, but that was guaranteed anyway even if the four part serial was the initial release format.
Is it crazy to assume that WB dumping their 2021 slate onto HBO Max is influencing the release of ZSJL? I would have to think that piecing the movie out in four hour chunks was the original plan. But when the WB 2021 thing happened, maybe somebody decided that a four hour ZSJL was the way to go after all?
We're talking about twelve or thirteen movies here, not counting JL. It's already a bit of a crowded field on HBO Max in 2021 as it is. So maybe the thinking goes that one WB release would inadvertently compete with some other WB movie if things aren't handled just right.
Either way, very interesting.
On Reddit someone surmised it's a payment issue, as the actors may need to be paid more for appearing in four 'episodes' rather than just one long movie. Could be some merit to that.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 17 Dec 2020, 22:31
On Reddit someone surmised it's a payment issue, as the actors may need to be paid more for appearing in four 'episodes' rather than just one long movie. Could be some merit to that.
Oh yeah, the infamous Salkind clause.
Gal Gadot revealed she was interviewed in the investigation over the misconduct allegations on JL.
Quote
I know that they've done a very thorough investigation, even just by how much time I spent with them.
I wasn't there with the guys when they shot with Joss Whedon — I had my own experience with [him], which wasn't the best one, but I took care of it there and when it happened. I took it to the higher-ups and they took care of it. But I'm happy for Ray to go up and say his truth.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2020-12-17/gal-gadot-wonder-woman-1984
https://variety.com/2020/film/news/gal-gadot-warner-media-justice-league-1234865424/
I heard that Whedon had another project scrapped after standing down from his HBO Max show, and Fisher landed a new role for an upcoming drama mini-series. Sounds like Karma is slowly at work.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 17 Dec 2020, 23:35
Gal Gadot revealed she was interviewed in the investigation over the misconduct allegations on JL.
Quote
I know that they've done a very thorough investigation, even just by how much time I spent with them.
I wasn't there with the guys when they shot with Joss Whedon — I had my own experience with [him], which wasn't the best one, but I took care of it there and when it happened. I took it to the higher-ups and they took care of it. But I'm happy for Ray to go up and say his truth.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2020-12-17/gal-gadot-wonder-woman-1984
https://variety.com/2020/film/news/gal-gadot-warner-media-justice-league-1234865424/
I heard that Whedon had another project scrapped after standing down from his HBO Max show, and Fisher landed a new role for an upcoming drama mini-series. Sounds like Karma is slowly at work.
Happy to hear this hasn't affected Ray's career.
During the New Year festivities, Zack Snyder shared two new images of Wonder Woman from his cut on social media. The second image shows her facing off Steppenwolf.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqlYnsGUwAAzsHY?format=jpg&name=small)
https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1344703559720267776
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eql0j4tVkAAbLqt?format=jpg&name=small)
https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1344734167423090688
Gal Gadot is looking elegant as always.
Meanwhile, DCEU fans have been tweeting the hashtag #RestoreTheSnyderVerse into the New Year, which appeared to have reached over 210k tweets.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eqp6cI6W4AIFm8d?format=jpg&name=medium)
This was covered in the media, along with talk about Ray Fisher's condemnation of key DC Films figure Walter Hamada for his part in interfering with the investigation over behind the scenes of Josstice League.
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2560817/zack-snyder-fans-fight-to-restore-his-universe-but-is-ray-fishers-cyborg-movie-off-the-table
As I said before, if there is a chance for the original DCEU to resume, the fans must support the hell out of ZSJL. Whether it's HBO Max in available countries or other streaming services showing it, or even purchasing a digital copy on Google Play which was added as a "coming soon" feature the other day, there's no room for complacency now.
I forgot to mention both Ray Fisher and Ray Porter tweeted the #RestoreTheSnyderVerse hashtags too.
https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1344758816425070594
https://twitter.com/Ray__Porter/status/1344696707276099592
From what I've heard, we will be getting one more trailer soon.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 2 Jan 2021, 02:22
From what I've heard, we will be getting one more trailer soon.
Do we rly need one tho? Whatever, if we get it, we get it. Fine. But I'm good rn.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 2 Jan 2021, 03:04
Do we rly need one tho? Whatever, if we get it, we get it. Fine. But I'm good rn.
It is annoying how that the Hallelujah trailer is just patting itself on the back saying that it's good enough that it's Snyders own cut of the movie. Gives me absolutely no sense of how things will play out differently from the theatrical cut.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 2 Jan 2021, 03:04
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 2 Jan 2021, 02:22
From what I've heard, we will be getting one more trailer soon.
Do we rly need one tho? Whatever, if we get it, we get it. Fine. But I'm good rn.
I hear you, but I heard that the marketing for ZSJL is about to kick-off. The latest Hallelujah trailer was more of a love letter for all the fans who petitioned hard for this cut for years, and since it's the first "original feature" for HBO Max, more footage will be advertised constantly in the lead-up to its release.
In the meantime, Jared Leto has some rather interesting things to say.
Quote
I may or may not be in [it]. I've heard the rumors, too, but we'll have to let Zack confirm or deny that one. I may or may not have shot something with Zack, but I love him. He is just a maverick and an incredible filmmaker. We get along great, have great chemistry, and I look forward to working with him again in the future. We have lots up our sleeves, Zack and I.
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/jared-leto-morbius-jekyll-and-hyde-tease
Quote from: Kamdan on Sat, 2 Jan 2021, 03:24
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 2 Jan 2021, 03:04
Do we rly need one tho? Whatever, if we get it, we get it. Fine. But I'm good rn.
It is annoying how that the Hallelujah trailer is just patting itself on the back saying that it's good enough that it's Snyders own cut of the movie. Gives me absolutely no sense of how things will play out differently from the theatrical cut.
What? That trailer showed many scenes that were never shown in Josstice League, e.g. exploring the Knightmare world and glimpses of Cyborg's arc. If that isn't enough of an indicator to show how different the Snyder cut is compared to the Whedon cut then I don't know what to tell you.
QuoteWhat? That trailer showed many scenes that were never shown in Josstice League, e.g. exploring the Knightmare world and glimpses of Cyborg's arc. If that isn't enough of an indicator to show how different the Snyder cut is compared to the Whedon cut then I don't know what to tell you.
Right, but that's all superficially. Just feels like an extended version of the theatrical. The song choice taken from Watchmen doesn't convey what we're going to see other than Snyder just gloating that his cut is being finished, which is all we get from him through his Twitter.
QuoteWhat? That trailer showed many scenes that were never shown in Josstice League, e.g. exploring the Knightmare world and glimpses of Cyborg's arc. If that isn't enough of an indicator to show how different the Snyder cut is compared to the Whedon cut then I don't know what to tell you.
Right, but that's all superficial. Just feels like an extended version of the theatrical. The song choice taken from Watchmen doesn't convey what we're going to see other than Snyder just gloating that his cut is being finished, which is all we get from him through his Twitter.
Quote from: Kamdan on Sat, 2 Jan 2021, 04:19
Right, but that's all superficial. Just feels like an extended version of the theatrical.
I wouldn't call the appearance of Darkseid, Silas Stone's fate, the restoration of Steppenwolf's original design and so on, as "superficial". Those examples alone show there is a significant difference to what Whedon showed us, so I don't understand how you could say it feels like an extensive version of the theatrical cut. To me, that's like saying the Donner cut feels like the extended version of Lester's Superman II. They may follow the same plot, more or less, but the structure and how it happens is rather different.
The point of the trailer was to showcase footage that was never seen before to the wider public, as well as a celebration for the fans who have been following the development of the Snyder cut for years. Many fans recognise some of these scenes because Snyder uploaded the stills on his Vero account over the last few years. Does it seem niche? Sure. But even so, the trailer certainly gives you more than an idea that we'll be seeing a very different film from what we saw in 2017.
Quote from: Kamdan on Sat, 2 Jan 2021, 04:19
The song choice taken from Watchmen doesn't convey what we're going to see other than Snyder just gloating that his cut is being finished, which is all we get from him through his Twitter.
Actually, the choice of song is much more personal than you think.
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2553149/why-zack-snyder-uses-hallelujah-again-in-the-new-snyder-cut-trailer
But even if there was no emotional context behind it, I wouldn't blame Snyder for gloating that he is getting to finish his cut. Under the circumstances, he'd have every right, and yet, he's barely even doing that. Besides, if your movie was hacked after you left the production, and you get the chance to finish what you wanted to do thanks to fan demand, how would you promote your work?
QuoteBesides, if your movie was hacked after you left the production, and you get the chance to finish what you wanted to do thanks to fan demand, how would you promote your work?
I'd let the movie speak for itself once it's released. Snyder's been posting black and white images of his cut but barely touches upon the content of them and this trailer does the same thing. To an audience that's not following this whole Release The Snyder Cut business, they probably don't quite know the details as to why this is even a thing. For them, a Director's Cut is just a longer version of what they've already seen. I hope this is something where we'll notice a significant change in tone without all of that Joss Whedon nonsense. This hopefully has no trace of that. The Donner Cut of Superman II still had Lester's touch on it.
There's been too much banking on selling this sorely on this being Snyder's vision realized and that's it. Why is this worth watching? Give us more of a taste at how different this will feel with actual dialogue and scenes instead of setting it to an overused and overrated song that was used in Watchmen already.
Quote from: Kamdan on Sun, 3 Jan 2021, 11:38I'd let the movie speak for itself once it's released. Snyder's been posting black and white images of his cut but barely touches upon the content of them and this trailer does the same thing. To an audience that's not following this whole Release The Snyder Cut business, they probably don't quite know the details as to why this is even a thing. For them, a Director's Cut is just a longer version of what they've already seen. I hope this is something where we'll notice a significant change in tone without all of that Joss Whedon nonsense. This hopefully has no trace of that. The Donner Cut of Superman II still had Lester's touch on it.
There's been too much banking on selling this sorely on this being Snyder's vision realized and that's it. Why is this worth watching? Give us more of a taste at how different this will feel with actual dialogue and scenes instead of setting it to an overused and overrated song that was used in Watchmen already.
There's only so much that can fit in a trailer. The most effective way of selling ZSJL is basically shining a light on how pathetic the Whedon cut is. But Hollywood politics is Hollywood politics so don't expect anybody (least of all the marketing department) to basically say "The other version of the movie sucks, here's the real deal!"
As things stand, I think every frame of the Hallelujah trailer contains "original" footage. Stuff that wasn't seen in Whedon's hackjob film.
For better or worse, the marketing is pretending as tho the Whedon cut doesn't exist. So, you are correct in saying there's no specific mention of "the original vision restored" or something. Still, this is the most successful Internet pressure campaign in history so perhaps the thinking goes that the movie can do its own talking.
Quote from: Kamdan on Sun, 3 Jan 2021, 11:38
To an audience that's not following this whole Release The Snyder Cut business, they probably don't quite know the details as to why this is even a thing. For them, a Director's Cut is just a longer version of what they've already seen.
I see where you're coming from, and I've found this point to be true. When one knows how much was deleted and altered, there's no question about just how different the two products are. It's night and day. Does the general public have that level of understanding, though? I say they don't. They really think the part of your post I quoted.
To which I would simply tell them WhedonLeague is 2 hours long, and SnyderLeague is 4 hours long. That really does communicate a lot, if plot point discussions the hardcore fans know about go way over their head. Would the general public be able to remember what is different and what isn't anyway?
Even if it simply was a matter of extending what already existed I'd wager the film would automatically be better in terms of development. I apply this logic to the greatest trilogy of all time, The Lord of the Rings. But SnyderLeague really is a whole other beast.
I think I'm more honestly interested in a documentary that details this whole business, but that's not gonna happen for another couple of decades where everyone can give their honest word on the matters at hand instead of the "we're trying to sell something" method.
Snyder said 80 per cent of ZSJL is unseen footage. That's insane.
In a positive development, McFarlane Toys will be producing figures based on the movie:
https://cosmicbook.news/snyder-cut-justice-league-action-figures-mcfarlane-toys
This suggests ZSJL isn't just a movie release and other gear could hopefully be in the pipeline, such as a complete soundtrack.
No idea if this legit. It's being posted in hope more than anything. A possible home video release this year?
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=335804
Sure hope we get some news about the release schedule soon. I'd love to see this in theatres first up if possible.
Harry Lennix on Twitter:
Quote
Finally putting the rumors to rest. #SnyderCut #MartianManhunter #JusticeLeague
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ero1VMLU0AInQlL?format=jpg&name=medium)
https://www.twitter.com/HarryJLennix/status/1349449680107626497
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 13 Jan 2021, 22:35
Harry Lennix on Twitter:
Quote
Finally putting the rumors to rest. #SnyderCut #MartianManhunter #JusticeLeague
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ero1VMLU0AInQlL?format=jpg&name=medium)
https://www.twitter.com/HarryJLennix/status/1349449680107626497
Ages ago, David Goyer did a Q&A where, among other things, he made fun of people for even knowing who Martian Manhunter is.
I've wondered a few times if Snyder inserting Martian Manhunter into JL wasn't throwing a bit of shade Goyer's way.
Now we know that Swanwick is Martian Manhunter, it adds a whole new perspective to Zod's speech once he arrived on Earth in MOS.
"He would have made efforts to blend in. He will look like you. But he is not one of you."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNiBgaiTeq8
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 14 Jan 2021, 02:02
Ages ago, David Goyer did a Q&A where, among other things, he made fun of people for even knowing who Martian Manhunter is.
I've wondered a few times if Snyder inserting Martian Manhunter into JL wasn't throwing a bit of shade Goyer's way.
Love or hate Snyder, you can't deny he embraces comic book iconography without apology. I remember he once called a radio station to argue that Aquaman is a badass after the host mocked the character.
If you ask some Arrowverse fanboys, they reckon Snyder ripped off Supergirl, because it had Martian Manhunter disguised as a government agency official taking Hank Henshaw's name. But I reckon it's very likely Geoff Johns knew Snyder was going to reveal Swanwick as Martian Manhunter in JL, and probably got the Supergirl showrunners to beat him to the punch.
Don't forget, Snyder was hired to direct JL in 2014, and J'Onn J'Onzz debuted in the Arrowverse in late 2015. When Johns became DC Films chief following BvS, Swanwick/MM became one out of many plotlines removed in favour of Josstice League. Cyborg and Deathstroke were other characters who got short-changed and then new versions of those characters would appear in Doom Patrol and Titans, which Johns serves as executive producer. You can see a pattern here.
Meanwhile, Snyder has confirmed that ZSJL will debut as a full-length feature film. The mini-series format has been disbanded, and the film's running time is four hours long.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Er8N0IKWMAMYZfq?format=jpg&name=small)
The official Twitter page has finally confirmed the film is definitely called "Zack Snyder's Justice League", ending doubts about whether or not Snyder would get the title he wanted.
https://twitter.com/snydercut
We're still waiting for an official release date, but Ray Fisher said on Instagram that he suspects it's only a month and a half away. We'll see. There have been some concerns that WB moving Godzilla vs Kong to a March 26th release date is an attempt to compete with ZSJL.
Here is a great ad for those who are complaining about the four hour running time. ;)
https://youtu.be/5xM1n_T5ekg
In the meantime, a fan charity organiser who is connected to Snyder claims the format changed from its original mini-series concept because Toby Emmerich and Walter Hamada are trying to mitigate ZSJL's potential success to avoid any possibilities of doing a sequel. A weekly series was believed to have a better shot at achieving that.
https://youtu.be/VMOD6T25vUU?t=722
Keep in mind that even if ZSJL does well, don't expect any development for a potential follow-up will happen right away. Snyder has a deal with Netflix and he is expected to work on spin-offs for Army of the Dead, his other film that's coming out this year, as well as producing a Norse mythology anime series with Jay Oliva. To be honest, I would not be surprised if Snyder wants nothing to do with WB anymore after this. I wouldn't blame him either because they've treated him like sh*t
Nonetheless, if the original mini-series plan was abandoned because Emmerich doesn't want the the film to succeed then that's quite typical of him. This is the same man who lied about how Josstice League would stay true to Snyder's vision, and I've no doubt he would've kept ZSJL locked in a vault if AT&T didn't force his hand. Now it's coming out, his pride must be hurting. What a rotten individual. I've never heard of a studio executive wanting to sabotage the success of his own product because of his twisted sense of pride.
The only hope for the Snyderverse continues in some form is the fans drive the viewing numbers home and AT&T continues to take notice.
In the meantime, here are some brand new T-shirts of Darkseid available on DC Shop in North America.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsI-B8ZXUAAoZXD?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsIKnalXIAIPgeq?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsIKoetW8AYIrG-?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 14 Jan 2021, 02:02
Ages ago, David Goyer did a Q&A where, among other things, he made fun of people for even knowing who Martian Manhunter is.
I've wondered a few times if Snyder inserting Martian Manhunter into JL wasn't throwing a bit of shade Goyer's way.
The Swanwick/Martian Manhunter detail always stuck with me because of the context changing nature of the revelation, and how it expands the scope of the universe. I daresay it's a perfect usage of a cameo, and I'm glad they managed to include it in the final cut. It wouldn't be ZSJL otherwise.
I like that ZSJL is an older
unseen film because it's a perfectly preserved time capsule. It makes me nostalgic about that period of time, reflecting upon where I was then, and where I am now. By default, any film takes on a life all of its own years after it has been released, and that's when I enjoy something the most. The actors have long moved on with their lives, but the performances still exist. There's a level of detachment that I find appealing, much like obsessing over the Burton and Schumacher films. Really can't wait now.
I saw the official AT&T Twitter account engaging with Snyder cut fans a few days ago. You gotta love them throwing shade at Josstice League.
https://twitter.com/ATT/status/1352014272365260809
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2561870/the-real-story-behind-why-zack-snyder-left-justice-league-in-2017
The Real Story Behind Why Zack Snyder Left Justice League In 2017
Once you get away from the writer plugging his RTSC/ZSJL book (twice), you get down to Snyder's quote.
"I just was kind of done with it. I was in this place of [knowing] my family needs me more than this bullsh*t, and I just need to honor them and do the best I can to heal that world. I had no energy to fight [the studio], and fight for [the movie]. Literally, zero energy for that. I really think that's the main thing. I think there's a different world where I stayed and kind of tried. And I'm sure I could have . . . because every movie is a fight, right? I was used to that. But I just did not have the [energy]. There was no fight in me. I had been beaten by what was going on in my life and I just didn't want to, I didn't care to . . . that was kind of where I was."
The utter defeat and apathy rly is a new element in this whole discussion. I mean, I can understand that after a tragedy like that, total apathy is sort of implied. But still, this is the first time I'm aware of Snyder directly mentioning it.
Collider editor-in-chief Steven Weintraub posted this highly inappropriate and disgusting reaction to that story on Twitter, before deleting it.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsmmNNLXEAEmqOW?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsmmNNNXcAE3nEs?format=jpg&name=large)
But instead of apologising for his behaviour, he talks down to the fans:
Quote
my least favorite people on Twitter are the Snyder bros who think they know everything about the making of #JusticeLeague.
Let me be clear: I am looking forward to seeing the new 4 hour cut of 'Justice League'. I'm sure it will be a better movie. ½
https://www.twitter.com/colliderfrosty/status/1353791931159994368
What a coward and a liar. His website had been running fake news about the Snyder cut's existence for years, and his colleagues have been making some repulsive insults about Snyder e.g. some douchebag once called him a "self-hating Jew" (even though the man doesn't appear to have any Jewish ancestry).
Meanwhile, the "sNyDeR bRoS" that Weintraub denigrates are people all over the world and many of them have raised money for suicide awareness and other charities. While he and his worthless blogger buddies do nothing but spread misinformation, slander and openly mock tragedies. They can all go to hell. But look at the bright side, now we know more than ever that site has no credibility.
By the way, here is a video of Weintraub making an ass of himself while interviewing Todd McFarlane a few years ago.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6e2fsw
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 25 Jan 2021, 20:59
The utter defeat and apathy rly is a new element in this whole discussion. I mean, I can understand that after a tragedy like that, total apathy is sort of implied. But still, this is the first time I'm aware of Snyder directly mentioning it.
I'd like to know when the concept of reshoots was first raised.
Imagine being hired to do a job, being passionate and giving it your all. Then your employer gets cold feet and wants to dramatically alter your vision. They're the boss, so that's going to happen with or without you. You can't fight those powerful forces, so it's all about submission at that point. Imagine the humiliating feeling of having to remain and reshoot large chunks of footage that removes what you were excited about. And the employer still wanting to have a 'Zack Snyder film' slapped on the credits.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 25 Jan 2021, 23:48
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 25 Jan 2021, 20:59
The utter defeat and apathy rly is a new element in this whole discussion. I mean, I can understand that after a tragedy like that, total apathy is sort of implied. But still, this is the first time I'm aware of Snyder directly mentioning it.
I'd like to know when the concept of reshoots was first raised.
Imagine being hired to do a job, being passionate and giving it your all. Then your employer gets cold feet and wants to dramatically alter your vision. They're the boss, so that's going to happen with or without you. You can't fight those powerful forces, so it's all about submission at that point. Imagine the humiliating feeling of having to remain and reshoot large chunks of footage that removes what you were excited about. And the employer still wanting to have a 'Zack Snyder film' slapped on the credits.
It's weird that twenty years ago, Snyder would've had a slam dunk case for taking his name off the movie and crediting it to either Alan Smithee or Joss Whedon. But Alan Smithee has apparently been abolished and Joss Whedon wasn't used because the world is retarded. So something that has almost nothing at all to do with the movie he wanted to make bears his name. To this day, I don't understand why the credits don't say Joss Whedon apart from the lie that WB was still trying to pull off at the time.
Under the circumstances, it's kind of amazing that he ever wanted to come back and finish the film properly.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 26 Jan 2021, 00:23
To this day, I don't understand why the credits don't say Joss Whedon apart from the lie that WB was still trying to pull off at the time.
It's a huge failure by the Directors' Guild, and it goes to show they have no credibility if a studio could do this.
As for WB, the negligence and downright sabotaging of their own IP is incomprehensible. If they wanted to change from Snyder's direction then they should've parted ways from the very beginning, before JL could go into further production. Instead, they let their insidious political agendas blow up right in their faces with a PR disaster that still lingers to this day. To describe them getting cold feet is a gross understatement.
Anyway, here is this new Steppenwolf T-shirt.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Esmy50cXYAASXjb?format=jpg&name=medium)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CKeuPIYM8q_/
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 26 Jan 2021, 00:23
So something that has almost nothing at all to do with the movie he wanted to make bears his name. To this day, I don't understand why the credits don't say Joss Whedon apart from the lie that WB was still trying to pull off at the time.
Under the circumstances, it's kind of amazing that he ever wanted to come back and finish the film properly.
When the studio got cold feet I'm wondering if they originally wanted Snyder directing the reshoots to outright say 'Zack was the man who shot this content', even though he didn't agree with the intent behind it. That would make it easier for them, from their POV, to sell the idea this truly was a Zack Snyder film. But they ended up doing it anyway.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 25 Jan 2021, 23:48I'd like to know when the concept of reshoots was first raised.
My understanding is that WB mandated reshoots. And yet, work on the SC continued. Why? Because the work being done was for an eventual director's cut. Snyder is famous for director's cuts.
So what Snyder put on the backburner was reshoots for the
theatrical version. Snyder continued working on the director's cut because that's what he
could work on and, before leaving the production, I imagine that he was supposed to reconvene with WB bigshots and they'd all figure out which parts needed reshoots and so forth for the theatrical version.
It makes sense too because I don't know how else Snyder can honestly say his cut was something like 90% finished while at the same time reshoots were expected. The only thing that makes sense is if we're talking about two different cuts of the movie. The director's cut was nearing completion while the theatrical cut might've been closer to like 50% (just to toss out a number).
Anyway.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 26 Jan 2021, 04:48
So what Snyder put on the backburner was reshoots for the theatrical version. Snyder continued working on the director's cut because that's what he could work on and, before leaving the production, I imagine that he was supposed to reconvene with WB bigshots and they'd all figure out which parts needed reshoots and so forth for the theatrical version.
Genius on his part. Having so much content shot back in the day, rather than having to film a lot more to complete the product years later, is by far the best case scenario.
Hoard as much popcorn as you can, because it seems like March 25 is going to be the big day according to Grace. Godzilla v Kong has been pushed back a week. She's saying to expect a new trailer and posters fairly soon. I would be perfectly fine if we didn't get a trailer, as we're now so close to the end. But I take it, obviously. I'm strangely more excited to see what the posters are like. I'm hoping for a quality one-sheet style we can use to replace anything that came out with the Theatrical cut, even if I liked some of those designs. It's time to leave all that in the past.
I'm hoping the coming days and weeks reveal more merchandising. I'd like to see something with black suit Superman, as it's truly unique to this film. More shirts would be welcome. As a collector of the movie vehicles I'd like to see good quality Knightcrawler and Flying Fox releases. Time will tell.
We have a release date.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Es5xPUYU0AI776-?format=jpg&name=large)
I'm so stoked. It's coming out soooo soon.
Can't wait.
That teaser poster was the first out of three, with the caption "Fallen" tweeted on both Snyder and the film's Twitter accounts.
Here is "Risen".
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Es50sR6UUAEjIaD?format=jpg&name=large)
And here is "United" (Snyder's tweet says "Reborn" instead).
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Es53RdWUcAIOFF5?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 29 Jan 2021, 13:54
I'm so stoked. It's coming out soooo soon.
Can't wait.
It's hard to think of anything else.
I notice the UK and Australia are missing in terms of their plans. These places have huge fans, and I'd hate the prospect of them waiting months more for something others have already seen. If it doesn't have a worldwide release day many will pirate the film, which brings the final box office total into question. And that's counterproductive to our mission. I get that other countries have different deals going on, but it's something that needs to be fixed. It's the elephant in the room right now.
The soundtrack is getting an official release, which is fantastic. It's the number one piece of film merchandise I'd be wanting if it didn't exist. Lots and lots of music to anticipate with a four hour runtime.
With the posters I prefer the roll of film with Snyder's name as it directly references the situation. From a mainstream point of view I could see the smashed JL logo being the front cover of a home video release, and the flag being the back.
Bring on the 18th!
I saw that Dan Jurgens likes the "Risen" poster.
Glad he saw fit to say he was flattered by the poster. As Dan certainly has his place in DC/Superman iconography.
But yeah, March can't get here quick enough!
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 29 Jan 2021, 23:55
I saw that Dan Jurgens likes the "Risen" poster.
Glad he saw fit to say he was flattered by the poster. As Dan certainly has his place in DC/Superman iconography.
But yeah, March can't get here quick enough!
The way I interpret the posters: the original dream was smashed, and then mourned. But the film was there the whole time in the rubble.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 30 Jan 2021, 00:15
The way I interpret the posters: the original dream was smashed, and then mourned. But the film was there the whole time in the rubble.
That's an astute interpretation that works for me.
Admittedly, I've been having a few chuckles at the recent, "How it started - How it's going" memes pertaining to the Snyder Cut. More specifically, at the expense of the numerous headlines of articles over the years proclaiming, "It doesn't exist, nor will ever, EVER see the light of day", vs the right sided juxtaposition image of the March 18th release date.
The jokes write themselves.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 30 Jan 2021, 01:11
Admittedly, I've been having a few chuckles at the recent, "How it started - How it's going" memes pertaining to the Snyder Cut. More specifically, at the expense of the numerous headlines of articles over the years proclaiming, "It doesn't exist, nor will ever, EVER see the light of day", vs the right sided juxtaposition image of the March 18th release date.
The jokes write themselves.
Indeed they do. The movie now being 100% done and getting released ends any debate.
This photo has been shared of the opening scene with Bruce finding Arthur.
(https://i.redd.it/u8mumeq80je61.jpg)
At four hours this movie automatically qualifies as an epic, but the Snyder visuals are going to amplify that mood.
I live in America. Usually, I like watching movies on my computer. It's a preference thing.
I use Google Chrome and a while back, I installed a browser plugin called VeePN. It's a VPN that allows you to connect your browser to systems in other countries, giving the appearance of actually being in those countries even if you're not. For example, rn I can connect to IP addresses originating from London and Moscow. Comes in handy sometimes.
Also, there are two different locations right in the good ol' US of A.
Separately (tho tangentially related), you can log in to HBO Max through a web browser (such as Chrome).
People in places where distribution of ZSJL might be an issue can do whatever they want with this information.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 27 Jan 2021, 00:52Hoard as much popcorn as you can
Way ahead of you, bro. I gravitate toward Reddenbacher's Naturals Simply Salted. I add light amounts of liquid butter topping (less is more with that stuff) and then shake some butter powder over top of the popcorn in layers. My pantry is all stocked up with popcorn and ready to go for ZSJL.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 27 Jan 2021, 00:52because it seems like March 25 is going to be the big day according to Grace
Turns out, she was off by a week. I rationalize it that (A) she was close (right down to predicting a Thursday release) and (B) odds are the plan was March 25 at least at one point.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 27 Jan 2021, 00:52Godzilla v Kong has been pushed back a week
I think this was the crux of it. Move JL up a week, move GVK back a week.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 27 Jan 2021, 00:52I'm hoping for a quality one-sheet style we can use to replace anything that came out with the Theatrical cut, even if I liked some of those designs. It's time to leave all that in the past.
I'll just say it, the official one-sheet for Whedon's JL is crap. I thought so back then and I believe it now. It looks cheap somehow. Like somebody banged it out in Photoshop in about fifteen or twenty minutes and there's your one-sheet, hoss. Sorry, no, it's awful.
Snyder's posters lean in to the Knightmare stuff and even if I don't think that's super pertinent to the movie itself (based on what we know so far) (which rly isn't much when you think about it), it's still more visually interesting than the generic group mugshot of the Whedon one-sheet.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 27 Jan 2021, 00:52I'm hoping the coming days and weeks reveal more merchandising. I'd like to see something with black suit Superman, as it's truly unique to this film. More shirts would be welcome. As a collector of the movie vehicles I'd like to see good quality Knightcrawler and Flying Fox releases. Time will tell.
I'm anticipating Junkie XL's score. The MOS and BVS scores are certified classics in my book, as you know. As Junkie is Zimmer's kinda sorta protégé, I'm very interested to hear what's coming. Frankly, I'm nearly as excited about the Junkie score as I am the film itself, if you can believe that.
If this is where the Snyderverse ends, well, I imagine I'll be quite satisfied.
Appreciate you dropping some knowledge with the VeePN post, Colors. I'll have to look into that.
Also, has there been anymore news/updates on a possible physical media release of the ZSJL lately? I seem to remember reading somewhere that there was a plan to have the blu/4K release to coincide (or relatively soon after) with the HBO Max release date, but haven't heard anything more about it as of late ...
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 31 Jan 2021, 22:21
Snyder's posters lean in to the Knightmare stuff and even if I don't think that's super pertinent to the movie itself (based on what we know so far) (which rly isn't much when you think about it), it's still more visually interesting than the generic group mugshot of the Whedon one-sheet.
Apparently there's another poster coming, that will feature the League. I wouldn't be surprised if that comes out with the new trailer.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 31 Jan 2021, 22:21I'm anticipating Junkie XL's score. The MOS and BVS scores are certified classics in my book, as you know. As Junkie is Zimmer's kinda sorta protégé, I'm very interested to hear what's coming. Frankly, I'm nearly as excited about the Junkie score as I am the film itself, if you can believe that.
It's a similar story for me. The Zimmer sound works for these types of films, and I came around to it a while back. Elfman has his place, but it's not here. Apparently Batman may have a new type of theme - can't wait to hear what it's like.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 31 Jan 2021, 23:41
Also, has there been anymore news/updates on a possible physical media release of the ZSJL lately? I seem to remember reading somewhere that there was a plan to have the blu/4K release to coincide (or relatively soon after) with the HBO Max release date, but haven't heard anything more about it as of late ...
Nothing has been announced. They better get their international release schedule announced before March 18 otherwise people will get restless. Nobody is advocating for piracy but if no other options are available, the masses will no doubt look into other options. Even if a release schedule is announced and they have to wait weeks or months after March 18, I'm sure those alternative options will be explored. India, UK, Australia, etc are huge markets. Would be insane to keep them in the dark for too long.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 31 Jan 2021, 23:41
Appreciate you dropping some knowledge with the VeePN post, Colors. I'll have to look into that.
I concur, though any VPN you sign up for should permit you to subscribe to HBO Max. I saw a fan on Twitter who offered another option to subscribe to HBO Max:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FmYBoAw0BFuQ84bKWAcGtRZjl_Nsid0P8gAd6K4ETO0/edit#heading=h.i3vu43742z1
I never knew the Opera browser has an in-built VPN.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 31 Jan 2021, 23:41
Also, has there been anymore news/updates on a possible physical media release of the ZSJL lately? I seem to remember reading somewhere that there was a plan to have the blu/4K release to coincide (or relatively soon after) with the HBO Max release date, but haven't heard anything more about it as of late ...
I heard of that too, but I reckon it's a rumour. I don't really expect a home video release till maybe later in the year. Although, I did see ZSJL was listed on Google Play Movies a month ago, but it had been taken down, presumably because of distribution issues that still need to be cleared up.
The official HBO Max PR Twitter account has been assuring fans that they'll quickly hurry up on distributing internationally, but I reckon the issue is WarnerMedia put themselves at a disadvantage by not planning ahead when they decided to enter the streaming market.
This article details some of the regions who are able to see ZSJL in time.
https://www.criticalhit.net/entertainment/zack-snyders-justice-league-official-hbo-max-release-date-and-international-rollout-plans-revealed/
Meanwhile, visual effects producer Tamara Watts Kent went on Instagram post this tribute to Snyder and the journey to complete the cut.
Quote
What this image means to me. In 2019 Zack invited me to his screening room to see his cut of Justice League. It was in black and white and it did exist. It was over 3 hours long, full of previsualization and work in progress effects along with finished visual effects. At times Zack had to clarify what I was looking at. Yet the story kept my attention the entire time. We then had follow up meetings and scrubbed the reels talking about his vision for the film and the visual effects work that would need to be done to see his complete vision on screen. DJ & I put together a budget & schedule for VFX and Zack pitched it.
Nothing like this has ever been done before. We figured it would never happen. Then COVID hit. Zack had a film that was already shot. Post can be done safely at home and the VFX companies needed the work. On April 30th we were surprised and thrilled to hear the film was a go.
It has been the most challenging project I have ever been on. We had 6 months to do 4 hours of effects work. Every shot had to be researched to see if it was a previous Zack final to finish the full frame, or a work in progress shot from the past that could be unarchived and finished, or a brand new shot. The facilities spent over a month pulling shots & assets from their archives while WB pulled assets from theirs.
ZSJL has also been the most fun & rewarding project I have been on. Zack, Debbie & Wes are the best people to work with. They have always treated their crews like family. They are respectful, inspiring, fun & trusting. Zack knows what he wants and is the first to admit if it is not working.
DJ and I were blessed to bring most of our VFX team along. We could not have hit this schedule & delivered Zack's complete vision without them. They kept the show moving forward and dug up archived material we thought would be impossible to find. This team delivered over 2,500 shots in 7 months! This is unheard of.
I am sad to see this project end, but am so grateful to have the opportunity to be a part of it. I did this for Zack, the Snyder family and DJ, and for the fans that fought for it and deserve to see Zack's vision.
#releasethesyndercut
#zacksnyder
https://www.instagram.com/p/CKpstpujjlC/
Snyder is working the teases lamf and it's stoking some serious interest in ZSJL. He tweeted:
---
Amazing character you created. Honored to have our worlds collide.
@DavidAyerMovies @JaredLeto
https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1356644230253301760
---
Very interesting.
To me it looks like Letoker is balding and with long hair. His Knightmare persona.
For Snyderverse and Batfleck era purity we need that Ayer cut released.
(https://i.imgur.com/72tOIhY.png)
This seemed pertinent to today, re: Bezos. And maybe it's because of Eisenberg's casting but people seem to associate this iteration of Lex with the Zuck rather than the (imo more apt) Bezos.
New image from Zack featuring Knightmare Batman.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtV-D4kUcAYG3fl?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 2 Feb 2021, 17:05
Snyder is working the teases lamf and it's stoking some serious interest in ZSJL. He tweeted:
---
Amazing character you created. Honored to have our worlds collide.
@DavidAyerMovies @JaredLeto
https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1356644230253301760
---
Very interesting.
The new Joker and Batman picture teases came from the recent additional photography.
In addition to the Joker card appearing in the last trailer, it was also strapped on Knightmare Batman's AK-47 in BvS.
(https://i.imgur.com/twnRLN9.jpg)
I love this fan's tweet in response to the new Batman image:
Quote
This is Ben Affleck in the additional photography for ZSJL. It must've been an intense,emotional experience for him.
Ben took off the cowl because he needed to put his health above all else. The fact that he got better and is in a place to come back must be a huge thing for him.
https://twitter.com/UberKryptonian/status/1357206563224768512
Meanwhile, excerpts from the Release the Snyder Cut book has hit Google Books, and it includes quotes from Snyder himself, as he looked back at the movement's social media activities and how his cut became the most talked about film on social media.
Quote from: Zack Snyder
Their websites, their Twitter, their everything ...they were paralyzed. They were literally paralyzed," he said. "They could make no release. They could talk about nothing. I was talking to an unnamed executive who said that [HBO Max] would tweet something about Sesame Street, and people would be like, 'f*** Elmo! Release the Snyder Cut! That was the world they lived in. And they were like, 'Jesus Christ, what are we supposed to do? We can't function!' That's pretty rad.
It was during, I think, [2019's] Comic-Con where there was an article written that said, 'The biggest Warner Bros. and DC presence at Comic-Con this year is for a movie they'd never released.' Which I was like, 'Holy sh*t, that's amazing.
We did all these analytics. And when we went in to talk to Warner Bros. about possibly releasing the movie, I said to them in the boardroom, 'You realize, I don't know if you're aware of it, but the biggest, the most volume for any social media campaign for any movie Warner Bros has ever done is for a movie that you guys never released. The most tweets, the most social media noise in the history of Warner Bros. is for a film that you guys don't have out.'
And at that stage in time, had no intention of releasing. In what world is that okay? In what world does the business model support this point of view? It just seems insane. And you know, apparently that didn't fall on deaf ears.
But it's just a hard thing to argue with...They would say things like, 'Well, it's just a vocal minority. It's just a small amount of people. I'm like, 'Okay, fair enough. If that's what you want to say. But if that's true, and it's not that big of a deal, how come you guys, a giant media corporation, cannot generate the same number of social media impressions as this vocal, grassroots minority that aren't that big of a deal?
How come you wish, in your best-case scenario, you could volumize one of your products in the same way that this handful of people, so you say, can do it? And if it is (just) a handful of people, you should have them working for you because they are unbelievable at their jobs. At their hobby, actually! Because none of them are getting paid for it.
https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/Release_the_Snyder_Cut/RV4MEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Their+websites,+their+Twitter,+their+everything+...they+were+paralyzed.&pg=PA8&printsec=frontcover
Typical studio hacks trying to cover their own asses by dismissing the demand as a "vocal minority", rather than owning up to their own f***-ups back in 2017. The arrogance is astounding. If you look at the Twitter activity promoting ZSJL thus far, WB Pictures are the only ones who haven't shown their support. Whereas WarnerMedia, AT&T, TNT Drama, the official accounts of DC Comics, and HBO Max obviously, have been engaging in fan interaction. That mess of a studio needs a clean up and get over their precious little egos.
Snyder was quoted again when asked about the "toxicity" within the fandom.
Quote
I just think that's sour grapes. There's really no other way to say it. We know the people who were the architects of that narrative, and it's pretty obvious what their agenda is. Those are people that I've been held back from confronting, by wiser people in the room. Because I'd love to get at some of these characters. Some direct conversation would be nice. Just to say, one, you don't know sh*t about what you're talking about. And we can break down everything they've ever [said]. I can make a list. There's a few of these guys where I could just get a list of everything they've ever said, that they thought was right, and [I could tell them] every single thing they've said is wrong.
And so, in what world do you have any credibility anywhere, to any- one? I would love the opportunity to just say to the world, and to fandom in general, who these fakers are and what should be done to them, or with them. It's just a bunch of BS. In regards to that toxic fandom, or it's 'a win for toxic fandom,' again, in what world does this 'toxic fandom' raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for suicide prevention? How is that toxic fandom? They've probably achieved more than any other fan base, [and done more] good than any other group. So I don't understand.
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2562262/zack-snyder-calls-out-the-fakers-who-hated-on-his-justice-league
Of course, I've noticed most of the people who accuse the fandom of "toxicity" are guilty of making rather inflammatory and slanderous remarks about Snyder and the fans on social media. They can project their own personality deficiencies elsewhere. Preferably, where the sun doesn't shine. That includes all of the blogs and articles that accuse the movement of "sexism" and "misogyny". This is simply an indirect way of saying the fandom consists of disgruntled men, which is rubbish. If you research the demographics of this fandom, they're a diverse group of people from around the world. And that includes female fans, such as the women who host Justice Con and Fiona Zheng, the die-hard fan who was probably the first to declare the cut existed, never mind she dedicated her time and money building the RTSC website to archive every news related to the cut and the whole DCEU. So anyone who says the RTSC fandom is a hotbed for misogyny is a lying jackass.
By the way, Sean O'Connell, the author of the RTSC book and writer of that CinemaBlend article, might be a bit of a "faker" himself. It turns out that he had been badmouthing MOS and BvS on Twitter over the years and as recently as late December 2018, when he made an inappropriate GIF of somebody tying their neck up with a noose in response to people praising MOS. Which is pretty tasteless given Snyder's tragic backstory. It wasn't until 2019 he apparently came around to both films. Genuine change of heart, or a cynical cash grab decision?
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 5 Feb 2021, 12:50Of course, I've noticed most of the people who accuse the fandom of "toxicity" are guilty of making rather inflammatory and slanderous remarks about Snyder and the fans on social media. They can project their own personality deficiencies elsewhere. Preferably, where the sun doesn't shine. That includes all of the blogs and articles that accuse the movement of "sexism" and "misogyny". This is simply an indirect way of saying the fandom consists of disgruntled men, which is rubbish. If you research the demographics of this fandom, they're a diverse group of people from around the world. And that includes female fans, such as the women who host Justice Con and Fiona Zheng, the die-hard fan who was probably the first to declare the cut existed, never mind she dedicated her time and money building the RTSC website to archive every news related to the cut and the whole DCEU. So anyone who says the RTSC fandom is a hotbed for misogyny is a lying jackass.
One of the loudest voices in the #RTSC world is my friend Rebecca Johnson. Between miscellaneous podcasts and her YouTube, she's probably recorded 100 hours worth of pro-Snyder content (whether it's MOS, BVS, JL, whatever). Something tells me she's not misogynistic.
Honestly, the whole "sexist" or "misogynist" bit is rly just dismissive smear language. These days, it's up there with "racist" in terms of totally meaningless words that are intended only for character assassination to distract from whatever the target is saying.
Before 2020, my sense of Snyder was always that he was the perennial Mr. Nice Guy who routinely got kicked around by the loudmouths on Twitter for no reason. Lately (and in that article esp), he's been showing what a scrapper he is and the fact that he's never gone off on those people (aside from that passive-aggressive tactical nuke he dropped on Scott Mendelson) is mostly because it would inevitably result in negative publicity for the movie.
I don't begrudge whoever is keeping Snyder semi-muzzled. They have a brand they have to build and protect. It makes sense. Completely logical. And besides, maybe the biggest F You that Snyder can give those people is completing the movie. After all the naysaying, this is what it's come to. ZSJL is about a month away from release. When you rly think about it, that's the only statement that matters.
Still, I absolutely understand where Snyder is coming from in wanting to give it back to them a little bit. I wish he would but I get why he can't.
There has always been an us against them mindset with Snyder fans given the critical opposition his films face from aggressive and closed minded loons who just don't get it. This stuff causes fans to rally around Zack, and nearly all of his cast and crew can't speak any higher of him. The cut has amplified all of these pre-existing traits. It's clear as day to me that Zack has become an even bigger legend through this saga, becoming something akin to a leader rather than just a director.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 5 Feb 2021, 13:54
One of the loudest voices in the #RTSC world is my friend Rebecca Johnson. Between miscellaneous podcasts and her YouTube, she's probably recorded 100 hours worth of pro-Snyder content (whether it's MOS, BVS, JL, whatever). Something tells me she's not misogynistic.
Yes, I remember sharing Rebecca's YouTube videos over her praise for BvS. She was the first fan I've noticed who praised Lois as the MVP of BvS Ultimate Edition for exposing Lex's smearing of Superman. A welcome change from the usual petty Internet discourse over the character's lack of sass and shallow bullsh*t.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 5 Feb 2021, 13:54
Honestly, the whole "sexist" or "misogynist" bit is rly just dismissive smear language. These days, it's up there with "racist" in terms of totally meaningless words that are intended only for character assassination to distract from whatever the target is saying.
I agree, but it's still infuriating. I realise some people are invested in the idea of painting someone a villain and black sheep in pop culture, but you'd have to be real piece of sh*t to make such slanderous comments. It doesn't help that clickbait has become so prevalent in Internet culture that these people take advantage to promote their agenda, and some platforms give them extra incentives to monetise from it. YouTube and Patreon being the worst offenders.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 5 Feb 2021, 13:54
Still, I absolutely understand where Snyder is coming from in wanting to give it back to them a little bit. I wish he would but I get why he can't.
Agreed 100%. In fact, as soon as Snyder told Mendelson off when the Hallelujah trailer was leaked during DC FanDome, you had these Twitter checkmark twats mocking his comments about ZSJL being a movie for grown-ups. Two problems with their taunting here: 1) It's quite rich because a lot of them praised R-rated movies like Deadpool and Logan, and 2) if superhero movies are for kids then why are they watching them?
Whether Snyder is restraining himself or somebody else is persuading him, you're right, it is the most logical thing to do. The last thing he needs is to give these people any ammunition to twist his words, which is what they have been doing for the last eight years. Completing and releasing the cut definitely hurts their egos, and try as they might, they'll trash it out of spite. To hell with them, I say.
Now that I mentioned R-rated superhero movies, it is confirmed that will be the rating for ZSJL, making it the first DCEU film since BvS Ultimate Edition. The film's official Twitter account summed it up rather nicely:
Quote
Rated R for Reborn. #SnyderCut
https://twitter.com/snydercut/status/1357079480116805632?s=20
A reup of the famous black suit scene from ZSJL. Shorter than other versions floating around at there. But the Zimmer theme can be heard pretty clearly. Anyway, here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPmpHR9jZ5k
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtzHqQqU0AQjdGM?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtzHqQqVkAAYKTV?format=jpg&name=large)
https://twitter.com/tntdrama/status/1359180719440859138
I haven't followed every single bit of this. But this knew Leto Joker stuff takes place in the Knightmare era, right?
So Charisma Carpenter has named some specifics about Whedon's behavior on the sets of Buffy and Angel. General bullying and intimidation, body shaming, anti-religious (anti-Catholic?) harassment, etc.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Et4MX8BUcAAS5qB?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Et4MYRQUUAEdCnT?format=jpg&name=large)
Basically, in two tweets, she's been far more specific than Ray Fisher.
Honestly? I tend to believe her. (A) It's not like she has anything to gain here and (B) rumors about how badly she was treated on those shows have floated around for YEARS. Never with the degree of specificity that she's provided here. It was always more like "Whedon was a major league a-hole to Carpenter". One can surmise that others experienced similar treatment.
Frankly, I've always thought Sarah Michelle Gellar's silence was deafening. Buffy was her big break and she got a lot of work from that. A career, let's face it. So in theory, she owes Whedon. He trusted her despite her youth and relative lack of experience at the time. The fact that all was quiet on the western front with Gellar told me everything I needed to know about Whedon.
Yes, the MCU cast's silence says a lot too but nowhere near as much as SMG, imo.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 10 Feb 2021, 13:06
I haven't followed every single bit of this. But this knew Leto Joker stuff takes place in the Knightmare era, right?
Yes.
Charisma Carpenter's story about Whedon is horrendous. And now, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Michele Trachtenberg and Amber Benson have come out to show their support.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CLH9ce-ByTV/
https://www.twitter.com/amber_benson/status/1359555694098190337
Whedon is even worse than many people thought. I've come to realise there was merit in the outrage over Black Widow in AOU after all.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 10 Feb 2021, 12:35
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtzHqQqU0AQjdGM?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtzHqQqVkAAYKTV?format=jpg&name=large)
Intriguing photos, although a bit Ledgery too.
No doubt, this is a make 'make it or break it' moment for Leto's Joker. Either it's going to fall flat, or it's going to cause people to
really question just what the hell happened to his (evidently severely edited) performance/scenes in Suicide Squad? Which, as a consequence, would probably result in even more of a vocal call for Ayer's cut of SS. Just to see
more of Leto as the Joker. Even if the divided opinion of his overall aesthetic appearance in SS remains firmly intact.
A trailer preview has been placed on Zack's Twitter.
This moment stuck out to me. Wow!
(https://i.postimg.cc/KYwmF1KV/get-FANDOM-Zack-Snyder-THIS-IS-SO-HOT-HENRYCAVILLSUPERMAN-Zack-Snyders-Justice-League-Superma.gif)
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 12 Feb 2021, 06:56
A trailer preview has been placed on Zack's Twitter.
This moment stuck out to me. Wow!
(https://i.postimg.cc/KYwmF1KV/get-FANDOM-Zack-Snyder-THIS-IS-SO-HOT-HENRYCAVILLSUPERMAN-Zack-Snyders-Justice-League-Superma.gif)
It's sticking out to a lot of people. I think the only black suit thing we've seen is the meeting with Alfred. This is new. And looks cool.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 12 Feb 2021, 12:52
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 12 Feb 2021, 06:56
A trailer preview has been placed on Zack's Twitter.
This moment stuck out to me. Wow!
(https://i.postimg.cc/KYwmF1KV/get-FANDOM-Zack-Snyder-THIS-IS-SO-HOT-HENRYCAVILLSUPERMAN-Zack-Snyders-Justice-League-Superma.gif)
It's sticking out to a lot of people. I think the only black suit thing we've seen is the meeting with Alfred. This is new. And looks cool.
There are a couple of other moments with him in the suit from the first trailer.
Damn, that's a badass clip. I don't think I wanna watch anything or hear anything until the movie comes out. I want to experience it as fresh as possible when it releases.
I'm so excited for this movie. Man, I can't wait!
Some reactions have been completely predictable:
(https://i.imgur.com/3TIAJvP.jpg)
Um, yeah. Good luck with that.
(https://i.imgur.com/AOjsPxp.jpg)
Why isn't he smiling? Where is the color? I mean, those are indispensable qualities of Superman, right?
(https://i.imgur.com/WgKaDOi.jpg)
Snyder confirmed that's Granny Goodness on the right.
(https://preview.redd.it/t3d0br2oz2h61.gif?format=mp4&s=c3fc363e9bd479dc8b1baae2b657d72bce057dff)
This is great too. Would be hilarious is Batfleck said "f*** it" and then manned the huge gun from the concept art. I actually think that could happen.
The anti-Snyder Superman crowd are bizarre because they seemingly don't want a real person, but a caricature. Real people go through various emotions just as Cavill's Superman does. Real people are happy, sad, thoughtful, angry and everything else. Nobody is ever just happy. When Superman is in battle he's not allowed to get into the action and grit his teeth? That makes him an evil wraith?
Some Superman fans just can't see what they have is great, and that they should be demanding more of it. Zack Snyder has done more than anyone in the modern times to push the character forward despite being bashed for somehow disrespecting him.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 13 Feb 2021, 04:17
(https://i.imgur.com/WgKaDOi.jpg)
Snyder confirmed that's Granny Goodness on the right.
(https://preview.redd.it/t3d0br2oz2h61.gif?format=mp4&s=c3fc363e9bd479dc8b1baae2b657d72bce057dff)
This is great too. Would be hilarious is Batfleck said "f*** it" and then manned the huge gun from the concept art. I actually think that could happen.
The anti-Snyder Superman crowd are bizarre because they seemingly don't want a real person, but a caricature. Real people go through various emotions just as Cavill's Superman does. Real people are happy, sad, thoughtful, angry and everything else. Nobody is ever just happy. When Superman is in battle he's not allowed to get into the action and grit his teeth? That makes him an evil wraith?
Some Superman fans just can't see what they have is great, and that they should be demanding more of it. Zack Snyder has done more than anyone in the modern times to push the character forward despite being bashed for somehow disrespecting him.
My view is there are a variety of ways to depict Superman. Fewer, I'd say, than Batman. But still, you have a remarkable amount of flexibility with Superman.
There's the lighthearted Christopher Reeve/Richard Donner approach, where Superman seems to understand his own legend but is still comfortable enough in his own skin to not be affected by it. That gives him a certain lightness of being. He can smile when he saves somebody because he knows he's done the right thing. And for him, that's as far as it needs to go.
There's also the Grant Morrison school, where he seems to exist almost on another level entirely than mankind. Oddly enough, that doesn't sever his ability to relate to mankind. On the contrary, his vast (even by Pre-Crisis standards) powers have allowed him a greater level of intimacy with the human race. He's not affected by the burden he carries because of his preternatural compassion and warmth.
Then you get into the Smallville seasons 01-10/Snyder department, where the character carries the weight of the world on his shoulders and is occasionally affected by it. He doesn't exist in a vacuum. His actions have consequences and he knows it. As much as he's driven to do the right thing, he's always keenly aware of the possibility of making mistakes. His entire existence is dedicated to an incredibly delicate balancing act of right action and awareness of his potential for error. Welling's take on the character is obviously different from Cavill's (which is as it should be) but both incarnations of the character exist in a world where the possibility of a good faith screwup is always present.
For my own part, I don't think Superman being fallible and being aware of his fallibility necessarily detracts from the character. Handled properly, you can develop a very rich and textured character.
I specify Smallville seasons 01-10 because the season 11 comic book showed Clark fully adjusted to his new identity. He has achieved a sort of zen-like detachment kinda sorta similar to Reeve in STM. It's an interesting approach to SUPERMAN but it's not one that I think works all that well for Smallville. Then again, the season 11 comic book was so (relatively) brief that there's an argument that this characterization of Smallville's Superman might've grown on me had the comic book continued into subsequent seasons. We'll never know.
For me it comes down to this: what Superman portrayal best suits the modern times?
For me, the answer is Earth One and Zack Snyder. The character will continue to be held back if the studio keeps listening to a fanbase that freaks out when Superman looks focused while fighting world ending threats. It's absurd to type it, but that's where we are. It's like getting picked apart for sweating while chopping wood in the sun. It's natural - it's what happens.
I essentially know how ZSJL will play out. But the biggest question for me is what Zack does with Clark Kent. He had a funeral at the end of BvS. It's a huge plot point, and for this to be a Superman trilogy I think it needs to be addressed in some way. I haven't heard anything concrete about it. Clark being found in rubble ala the Death of Superman arc? Or Clark going public and becoming Superman full time?
Snyder has expressed some frustration about the lack of international distribution planned for ZSJL, but he does his best to give a diplomatic answer by saying the studio didn't anticipate the film is in high demand.
https://youtu.be/ORPUdEqoKBw
Of course, anyone who has a faint idea about the whole Snyder cut journey knows very well that WB are doing their best they can to sabotage its success. They knew damn well how many fans around the world had been campaigning for it over the last few years, and they would've continued to ignore it if it weren't for their higher-ups at AT&T. Sure, there are countries like the UK who have existing deals with Sky to distribute content, but to not act quickly on distribution sounds very deliberate.
Let's hope ZSJL becomes widely available on time on Google Play for every other who doesn't have a streaming service showing the film.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 13 Feb 2021, 22:32
Snyder has expressed some frustration about the lack of international distribution planned for ZSJL, but he does his best to give a diplomatic answer by saying the studio didn't anticipate the film is in high demand.
https://youtu.be/ORPUdEqoKBw
Of course, anyone who has a faint idea about the whole Snyder cut journey knows very well that WB are doing their best they can to sabotage its success. They knew damn well how many fans around the world had been campaigning for it over the last few years, and they would've continued to ignore it if it weren't for their higher-ups at AT&T. Sure, there are countries like the UK who have existing deals with Sky to distribute content, but to not act quickly on distribution sounds very deliberate.
Let's hope ZSJL becomes widely available on time on Google Play for every other who doesn't have a streaming service showing the film.
That reminds me of something I posted earlier in this thread.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 31 Jan 2021, 02:11
I live in America. Usually, I like watching movies on my computer. It's a preference thing.
I use Google Chrome and a while back, I installed a browser plugin called VeePN. It's a VPN that allows you to connect your browser to systems in other countries, giving the appearance of actually being in those countries even if you're not. For example, rn I can connect to IP addresses originating from London and Moscow. Comes in handy sometimes.
Also, there are two different locations right in the good ol' US of A.
Separately (tho tangentially related), you can log in to HBO Max through a web browser (such as Chrome).
People in places where distribution of ZSJL might be an issue can do whatever they want with this information.
You non-Americans can do whatever you want with that information.
Uh, we're getting the war Batmobile from TDK Returns.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuH2FzNU0AICyFJ?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 13 Feb 2021, 22:44
Uh, we're getting the war Batmobile from TDK Returns.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuH2FzNU0AICyFJ?format=jpg&name=large)
That crashing sound you just heard was my interest in this movie suddenly breaking through the ceiling.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 13 Feb 2021, 22:32
Snyder has expressed some frustration about the lack of international distribution planned for ZSJL, but he does his best to give a diplomatic answer by saying the studio didn't anticipate the film is in high demand.
https://youtu.be/ORPUdEqoKBw
Of course, anyone who has a faint idea about the whole Snyder cut journey knows very well that WB are doing their best they can to sabotage its success. They knew damn well how many fans around the world had been campaigning for it over the last few years, and they would've continued to ignore it if it weren't for their higher-ups at AT&T. Sure, there are countries like the UK who have existing deals with Sky to distribute content, but to not act quickly on distribution sounds very deliberate.
Let's hope ZSJL becomes widely available on time on Google Play for every other who doesn't have a streaming service showing the film.
I'm sorry to hear that. I wanted this thing to open big to show support for it. Of course this means that a large market will just stream it. I'm not going to say that it's WB conspiring against him because I'm not involved with WB in any way. I thought he gave a great answer about how there just wasn't enough time to fully plan worldwide distribution.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sat, 13 Feb 2021, 23:42
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 13 Feb 2021, 22:32
Snyder has expressed some frustration about the lack of international distribution planned for ZSJL, but he does his best to give a diplomatic answer by saying the studio didn't anticipate the film is in high demand.
https://youtu.be/ORPUdEqoKBw
Of course, anyone who has a faint idea about the whole Snyder cut journey knows very well that WB are doing their best they can to sabotage its success. They knew damn well how many fans around the world had been campaigning for it over the last few years, and they would've continued to ignore it if it weren't for their higher-ups at AT&T. Sure, there are countries like the UK who have existing deals with Sky to distribute content, but to not act quickly on distribution sounds very deliberate.
Let's hope ZSJL becomes widely available on time on Google Play for every other who doesn't have a streaming service showing the film.
I'm sorry to hear that. I wanted this thing to open big to show support for it. Of course this means that a large market will just stream it. I'm not going to say that it's WB conspiring against him because I'm not involved with WB in any way. I thought he gave a great answer about how there just wasn't enough time to fully plan worldwide distribution.
All his comments about worldwide distribution seemed to be about the movie. But rly, unless I'm misunderstanding something, it seems like more of an issue of worldwide distribution for HBO Max. Because in theory, WB could make ZSJL available on Prime Video, Netflix, iTunes, et. al. in foreign territories and go on with life. Hell, they could probably work deals like that out tomorrow if they wanted to.
But we all know that HBO Max is the real driver behind the decision to complete ZSJL so distributing the movie on other platforms defeats the entire purpose of what they're trying to achieve.
People have criticized HBO Max for a botched rollout. I always thought stuff like that was a bit above my paygrade. But there does seem to be some mojo the idea that HBO Max could've been rolled out more smoothly with major kinks like international distribution ironed out either in advance or soon after its North American debut that a worldwide release of ZSJL would be a non-issue.
In this case, I think we would do well to attribute these problems to incompetence rather than malice.
The new trailer comes out during Valentines Day. I won't elaborate but man, the day is suicide fuel. I'll take the trailer and then hope I can quickly move ahead from there. I'm not going to fly out over Gotham Harbor with a nuclear bomb or anything, but pieces of entertainment like ZSJL help keep me going. The international release schedule really is out of Zack's control, and he has to answer carefully. He did a pretty good job at it, too. There's history between him and the studio, but he's still working with them nonetheless. It's a tightrope. I think the studio has genuine reason for some of the complications, with other deals being made with HBO Max providers that don't lapse for another year. I think a cinema release would be one of the few ways around things if Google Play doesn't come to the party.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 13 Feb 2021, 22:35
That reminds me of something I posted earlier in this thread.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 31 Jan 2021, 02:11
I live in America. Usually, I like watching movies on my computer. It's a preference thing.
I use Google Chrome and a while back, I installed a browser plugin called VeePN. It's a VPN that allows you to connect your browser to systems in other countries, giving the appearance of actually being in those countries even if you're not. For example, rn I can connect to IP addresses originating from London and Moscow. Comes in handy sometimes.
Also, there are two different locations right in the good ol' US of A.
Separately (tho tangentially related), you can log in to HBO Max through a web browser (such as Chrome).
People in places where distribution of ZSJL might be an issue can do whatever they want with this information.
You non-Americans can do whatever you want with that information.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif) I appreciate you sharing that info again. I remember sharing another alternative I found a couple of pages ago, but the Google Drive link has been removed.
It's still disappointing that international fans would have to find a workaround to watch ZSJL on time if other streaming services in various territories aren't available. It does make it harderfor wider audiences from seeing it so soon too. There are some territories like Canada, France and Asia that will watch the film on time, while India is working hard to sort out a deal, but Latin America will have to wait till they get HBO Max in June.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 14 Feb 2021, 00:07
All his comments about worldwide distribution seemed to be about the movie. But rly, unless I'm misunderstanding something, it seems like more of an issue of worldwide distribution for HBO Max. Because in theory, WB could make ZSJL available on Prime Video, Netflix, iTunes, et. al. in foreign territories and go on with life. Hell, they could probably work deals like that out tomorrow if they wanted to.
But we all know that HBO Max is the real driver behind the decision to complete ZSJL so distributing the movie on other platforms defeats the entire purpose of what they're trying to achieve.
People have criticized HBO Max for a botched rollout. I always thought stuff like that was a bit above my paygrade. But there does seem to be some mojo the idea that HBO Max could've been rolled out more smoothly with major kinks like international distribution ironed out either in advance or soon after its North American debut that a worldwide release of ZSJL would be a non-issue.
In this case, I think we would do well to attribute these problems to incompetence rather than malice.
Don't underestimate WB Pictures. Now yes, as I mentioned before, other broadcasters and streaming services have exclusive rights to WB/HBO content in some countries, and no doubt WarnerMedia's lack of planning ahead has made the situation difficult. But WB Pictures are conniving bastards. If their past history has shown us anything, a fan who is closely acquainted with Snyder claims WB Pictures and its dickhead chairman Toby Emmerich is still making things difficult behind the scenes.
https://youtu.be/wJdHRwSLb_Q?t=1216
You might think Emmerich shouldn't be too much of a problem if AT&T and WarnerMedia are calling the shots, and that might be true. But he has been given control to HBO Max content following a recent restructure at the corporate level, and he has consolidated some power. If ZSJL does well, he can be put into his place and be forced to greenlight more potential projects. I just don't like the fact it sounds like he's still trying to bury the project, and his history of lying about the Whedon reshoots lingers on in the memory. Don't forget that Godzilla vs Kong, which was originally going to debut a couple of months from now, got moved forward to a week after ZSJL comes out. How convenient.
With Emmerich's attitude and leaving fans hanging over wanting ZSJL, is it really surprising that him and his buddy Walter Hamada got the NY Times to describe ZSJL a "storytelling cul-de-sac - a street that leads nowhere"?
https://web.archive.org/web/20210102113130/https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/27/business/media/dc-superheroes-movies.html
Well, according to Kevin Smith, he reckons the way ZSJL concludes is anything but leading to nowhere. Sigh. If there are
any potential plans for the Snyderverse to continue in some capacity, let's hope they get protected by HBO Max and WB Pictures stay the hell away until the deadbeats are kicked out.
To be fair to all parties involved, AT&T has waded into the movie business, an industry about which they knew little.
Now, I've championed AT&T many times around here for being outside the Hollywood cult and supremely unconcerned with such-and-such tradition or so-and-so's ego. But you take the good with the bad. Yes, AT&T is not controlled by conventional Hollywood politics. But what also means is they probably weren't fully prepared for the amount of bureaucratic resistance they might be facing.
Yes, they can remove the problematic elements. But that process takes time. And AT&T is fighting wars on multiple fronts. The reality is they've got other things on their collective plate besides ZSJL and HBO Max.
My point is that we need to give AT&T some time on this. As I've said before, AT&T is in business. They made their bones far outside the Hollyweird cult and it'll take them time to their ducks in a row. But if AT&T's history teaches us anything, it's that they're survivors and they will overcome. No matter how long it takes, no matter how much it costs, no matter how high the bodies have to get piled, AT&T will regulate on WB/DCE/whoever tf.
AT&T was willing to burn WB's bridges with Christopher Nolan to light their way. Ask yourself: if AT&T was willing to do that, what, are the troublesome characters you mention somehow magically protected? Not likely. If AT&T is willing to alienate Nolan (and they obviously were) then you'd better believe the saboteurs in their midst are on borrowed time.
My advice? Be patient, bro. In the world that AT&T knows, understands and has succeeded in, Emmerich, Hamada and everyone else's metaphorical graves have already been dug. And unfortunately for the soon-to-be metaphorical casualties, the world AT&T knows is the only world that matters anymore.
Keep the faith.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM-Bja2Gy04
Dude
Wow!
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 14 Feb 2021, 16:21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM-Bja2Gy04
I am so ready for this movie now.
I don't think it's an exaggeration to say this looks like one of the best comic book movies of all time, DC related or otherwise. The visuals are out of this world and the runtime is literally bigger than Ben Hur.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 14 Feb 2021, 16:21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM-Bja2Gy04
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3rgXBARQON1OCltZ1C/giphy.gif)
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 14 Feb 2021, 08:48
My advice? Be patient, bro. In the world that AT&T knows, understands and has succeeded in, Emmerich, Hamada and everyone else's metaphorical graves have already been dug. And unfortunately for the soon-to-be metaphorical casualties, the world AT&T knows is the only world that matters anymore.
Keep the faith.
Your words have been very comforting, colors. Thanks for the reply, I do appreciate it. (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)
At the time of writing, the trailer is trending between the top two places on YouTube, with over 7.5 million views and counting. I heard WB Pictures released another trailer for Godzilla vs Kong to distract attention from ZSJL, but it backfired. Good, many more people outside of the Snyder cut community are calling out WB's lack of support and worldwide distribution of the film. The closest I've seen of any promotion on the @warnerbros and @wbpictures accounts were retweets of the trailer from the HBO Max and official @snydercut accounts.
The trailer looks very good, and should more than confirm by now this is a completely different film from Josstice League, if the previous trailer wasn't enough to satisfy some people's tastes. Kal-El's black suit is fast becoming my favourite live-action Superman costume, Cyborg shows lots of promise and Batman seems to get involved in more action than most around here might've thought. I can't understand how anyone could complain about Darkseid looks. Just because he doesn't have bright blue and grey colours doesn't mean he looks nothing like the comics. And the more I see of Steppenwolf's original design in action, the more I'm impressed with how intimidating he looks. I'm very glad Snyder got the opportunity to restore it, it's something I only thought die-hard fans would've dreamed of.
I heard a lot of positive feedback over Leto's Knightmare Joker appearance, and places like Reddit are going crazy over his line "We live in a society". For those don't know, that line is an already established meme made popular a few years ago, and is often misattributed to the Joker.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/gamer-joker-gamers-rise-up-we-live-in-a-society
And now Snyder has made it canon for his Superman/JL saga.
Quote from: The Joker on Mon, 15 Feb 2021, 01:06
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3rgXBARQON1OCltZ1C/giphy.gif)
Wait until you hear this official Junkie XL track 'The Crew at Warpower'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUY0_TZ0jdU&feature=emb_title
Deborah Snyder was interviewed on the LightCast YouTube channel a couple of days ago. She mentioned how timestamp markers will be incorporated on HBO Max for those who aren't able to watch ZSJL for four hours straight, and spoke about the experience working on the additional photography - including Ben Affleck's enthusiastic return to the cowl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6DUWkevNKA
Great news:
Quote from: Zack Snyder
Zack Snyder's Justice League will be available worldwide in all markets on the same day as in the U.S. on March 18 via on-demand, digital download, linear, or streaming. #SnyderCut #SnydercutWorldwide (1/2)
Platform availability will depend on each territory (with the exception of China, France, and Japan, where the release dates are TBD). Additional details for specific markets will be shared soon. (2/2)
https://www.twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1362778284895858692
I've read elsewhere that Australia and New Zealand will stream ZSJL on March 18th via Binge and Neon. Nice. I expect the official site will update its list of territories very soon.
https://zacksnydersjusticeleague.dcuniverseinfinite.com/
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 19 Feb 2021, 23:01
Great news:
Quote from: Zack Snyder
Zack Snyder's Justice League will be available worldwide in all markets on the same day as in the U.S. on March 18 via on-demand, digital download, linear, or streaming. #SnyderCut #SnydercutWorldwide (1/2)
Platform availability will depend on each territory (with the exception of China, France, and Japan, where the release dates are TBD). Additional details for specific markets will be shared soon. (2/2)
https://www.twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1362778284895858692
I've read elsewhere that Australia and New Zealand will stream ZSJL on March 18th via Binge and Neon. Nice. I expect the official site will update its list of territories very soon.
https://zacksnydersjusticeleague.dcuniverseinfinite.com/
I have to wonder if someone from AT&T thinks this is the tail wagging the dog.
Glad this is sorted for everyone and it's a universal release day instead of being staggered in different countries. No reason whatsoever for anyone to pirate the movie now. No one wanted to do that, but if you're left with no choice other options are going to be considered.
I have a very, very good feeling about this. I believe it's going to be a monster success financially, and WB are going to look insane by maintaining they're not interested in continuing the Snyderverse.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 20 Feb 2021, 00:34
Glad this is sorted for everyone and it's a universal release day instead of being staggered in different countries. No reason whatsoever for anyone to pirate the movie now. No one wanted to do that, but if you're left with no choice other options are going to be considered.
I have a very, very good feeling about this. I believe it's going to be a monster success financially, and WB are going to look insane by maintaining they're not interested in continuing the Snyderverse.
I think a relevant question in all this is whether Snyder wants to come back. Finishing off a 90% completed movie is one thing. Coming back for new movies is something else. Maybe he's just been coy about it because conversations are already going on. But I, for one, question how much he wants to come back for more. Because even if he wins over a majority of fans with ZSJL, the knives will always be out as far as the critics are concerned.
Releasing ZSJL is sort of a power move. But making more movies after could be an unnecessary risk.
To be clear, I'd love for him to come back and tell the entire story he wanted to tell. I just see obstacles there. And this is before we even start talking about movie theaters.
While we wait for the movie, I think it's well worth revisiting the RTSC movement and what exactly "exists" and "completed" mean in reference to this movie. The semantics have been flying all over the place and so one intrepid blogger has put together the most comprehensive collection of quotes and sources I've ever seen for the Snyder Cut.
https://snyderverseanalysis.blogspot.com/2021/01/criticisms-of-releasethesnydercut-final.html
One interesting fact that's undeniable at this point is the movie that's coming in March 2021 is technically not the movie fans campaigned for. The cut of the movie Snyder was working on was the (relatively) shorter "all compromise" cut. Whereas the movie coming next month seemingly contains no compromises at all.
This fact doesn't seem to have been widely heralded among fans (at least that I've seen). So in reality, fans are getting so much more than they initially campaigned for. I rly appreciate that fact.
Nice, we'll be able to buy it. If it comes to 4K, I'll pick up a disc, but at least you can buy it digitally.
Grace Randolph claims some Hollywood executives think the demand for ZSJL is a coordinated effort by Russian bots. These people really are tone-deaf and out of touch with what people want, aren't they? They really need to get over their stupid egos, it will help them do good business in the long run.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 20 Feb 2021, 01:24
I think a relevant question in all this is whether Snyder wants to come back. Finishing off a 90% completed movie is one thing. Coming back for new movies is something else. Maybe he's just been coy about it because conversations are already going on. But I, for one, question how much he wants to come back for more. Because even if he wins over a majority of fans with ZSJL, the knives will always be out as far as the critics are concerned.
Releasing ZSJL is sort of a power move. But making more movies after could be an unnecessary risk.
To be clear, I'd love for him to come back and tell the entire story he wanted to tell. I just see obstacles there. And this is before we even start talking about movie theaters.
IIRC, I may have seen Snyder liking a couple of fans writing the hashtag #RestoreTheSnyderVerse on Vero. Make of that what you will.
But putting that aside, I do think there is some truth to what you're saying. Snyder and Netflix have a good relationship at the moment and that streaming service is throwing their support behind him by building a franchise around Army of the Dead, to the point that he will produce a prequel and anime spin-offs. That's not even taking into account of Snyder producing a Norse mythology anime series with Jay Oliva too.
If ZSJL is a success and AT&T/WarnerMedia wants to continue the Snyderverse, they would probably have to negotiate with Snyder. But would Snyder want to go back and risk getting burned by treacherous people in WB Pictures if they are still there and working against their parent company's interests? Could he risk his relationship with Netflix, who have shown him enormous goodwill thus far? Only he would know the answers.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 21 Feb 2021, 01:08
While we wait for the movie, I think it's well worth revisiting the RTSC movement and what exactly "exists" and "completed" mean in reference to this movie. The semantics have been flying all over the place and so one intrepid blogger has put together the most comprehensive collection of quotes and sources I've ever seen for the Snyder Cut.
https://snyderverseanalysis.blogspot.com/2021/01/criticisms-of-releasethesnydercut-final.html
One interesting fact that's undeniable at this point is the movie that's coming in March 2021 is technically not the movie fans campaigned for. The cut of the movie Snyder was working on was the (relatively) shorter "all compromise" cut. Whereas the movie coming next month seemingly contains no compromises at all.
This fact doesn't seem to have been widely heralded among fans (at least that I've seen). So in reality, fans are getting so much more than they initially campaigned for. I rly appreciate that fact.
That blog does a great job at tearing apart all the preconceptions about the status of the cut. Which incredibly, still exists to this day. I read several ignorant comments on social media claiming WB Pictures had been secretly remaking JL all along. Right, in a year full of lockdowns and restrictions, and with a budget of only $70 million that was reported for additional photography!
Deluded idiots.
To Zack and Deborah Snyder's credit, they campaigned hard to get the funding they needed to complete the film, whereas WB Pictures were eager to put the unfinished cut out there. Good on the couple for accomplishing their objective. I was very skeptical over the possibility to complete certain effects, i.e. adding Martian Manhunter, but I'm so glad to know I was wrong.
Speaking of Martian Manhunter, DC Comics is displaying new variant covers promoting ZSJL for the upcoming issue of Justice League. These were drawn by Jim Lee and Lee Bermejo.
(https://www.dccomics.com/sites/default/files/styles/blog_gallery_2015_700x600/public/JUSTICELEAGUE_Cv59_JL_CMYK_var_60307320f28967.25597635.jpg)
(https://www.dccomics.com/sites/default/files/styles/blog_gallery_2015_700x600/public/JUSTICELEAGUE_Cv59_LB_CMYK_var_60307349037233.52354029.jpg)
(https://www.dccomics.com/sites/default/files/styles/blog_gallery_2015_700x600/public/JUSTICELEAGUE_Cv59_LS_CMYK_var_603073755ce5c2.98621176.jpg)
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2021/02/19/variant-covers-for-justice-league-59-inspired-by-zack-snyders-justice-league
Now that I've mentioned comics, Snyder revealed a week ago that he pitched a mini-series on the death of Robin within the DCEU continuity, but DC Comics declined.
https://youtu.be/3oKPL8zTaaQ?t=159
According to that grifter and Geoff Johns buddy Ethan Van Sciver, this is based on the fallout behind the scenes of JL:
Quote
The reason why DC doesn't want to do anything with the Snyder cut is that whatever happened during the transition from Snyder to Whedon caused such conflict with the cast and the execs that they don't want to do business together.
https://twitter.com/EthanVanSciver/status/1362498454543601667
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 21 Feb 2021, 07:54Now that I've mentioned comics, Snyder revealed a week ago that he pitched a mini-series on the death of Robin within the DCEU continuity, but DC Comics declined.
https://youtu.be/3oKPL8zTaaQ?t=159
According to that grifter and Geoff Johns buddy Ethan Van Sciver, this is based on the fallout behind the scenes of JL:
Quote
The reason why DC doesn't want to do anything with the Snyder cut is that whatever happened during the transition from Snyder to Whedon caused such conflict with the cast and the execs that they don't want to do business together.
https://twitter.com/EthanVanSciver/status/1362498454543601667
I rather enjoy EVS's recently released Cyberfrog comics. He's delivered quality products and reaped millions doing so. I don't agree with all his opinions but I'd hesitate to call him a grifter. Yeah, he's friends (somewhat) with Geoff Johns. But frankly, I have no major gripe against Johns the comic book writer. It's when you start getting into Geoff Johns the screenwriter, TV producer, movie producer, etc., that I have problems with his work.
As to the other, DC Comics has laid off the great majority of their staff at this point. Comics are being "edited" and "approved for publication" by twenty-something women who were basically interns just one year ago. AT&T has hollowed DC out like a Thanksgiving Day turkey. Right now, the name of the game at DC is survival. And releasing a Zack Snyder comic book could be a serious hot potato. Corporate politics is a very real thing and part of me can't blame DC too much for wanting to stay out of the blast zone, esp when they're already hanging on by their fingernails.
Word 'round the watercooler is that Steve Geppi and Robert Kirkman are vying against each other to license the entire DC universe under their own competing banners. Right now, some bean-counters at AT&T and Time-Warner Media are probably weighing their options.
With all that stuff happening in the background (drama between parent companies and competing buyout offers), if I'm a DC employee, I'm not doing
ANYTHING to rock the boat right now.
Quote from: Travesty on Sun, 21 Feb 2021, 02:19
Nice, we'll be able to buy it. If it comes to 4K, I'll pick up a disc, but at least you can buy it digitally.
If any more trailers are released I'm not watching them. I'm going to ride this out. Not long to go now, and as soon as the movie is available I'm pressing play and demanding
absolute silence. The only noise that will be allowed is my munching of popcorn.
I've been supervising popcorn deliveries the past week.
(https://pa1.narvii.com/6738/687a055149702febc85aeff0985adfc87e9a520d_hq.gif)
I should have it up to the ceiling by March 18.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 21 Feb 2021, 08:53
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 21 Feb 2021, 07:54Now that I've mentioned comics, Snyder revealed a week ago that he pitched a mini-series on the death of Robin within the DCEU continuity, but DC Comics declined.
https://youtu.be/3oKPL8zTaaQ?t=159
According to that grifter and Geoff Johns buddy Ethan Van Sciver, this is based on the fallout behind the scenes of JL:
Quote
The reason why DC doesn't want to do anything with the Snyder cut is that whatever happened during the transition from Snyder to Whedon caused such conflict with the cast and the execs that they don't want to do business together.
https://twitter.com/EthanVanSciver/status/1362498454543601667
I rather enjoy EVS's recently released Cyberfrog comics. He's delivered quality products and reaped millions doing so. I don't agree with all his opinions but I'd hesitate to call him a grifter. Yeah, he's friends (somewhat) with Geoff Johns. But frankly, I have no major gripe against Johns the comic book writer. It's when you start getting into Geoff Johns the screenwriter, TV producer, movie producer, etc., that I have problems with his work.
My distaste for EVS has nothing to do with his art, which is exceptional. I simply don't care for him as a person, or for his YouTube content. Outrage clickbait horsesh*t. I agree with you about Johns as a comic boom writer, but as of now, I'm no hurry to read his material any time soon.
Meanwhile, Snyder sat down with Vanity Fair to talk about JL, coping with the death of his daughter Autumn, the struggles behind the scenes and the journey thus far. Other than the swipe at "toxic fans" and quotes from a Snyder hater, the article is worthwhile.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210222161550/https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/02/the-true-story-of-justice-league-snyder-cut
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 22 Feb 2021, 20:55Meanwhile, Snyder sat down with Vanity Fair to talk about JL, coping with the death of his daughter Autumn, the struggles behind the scenes and the journey thus far. Other than the swipe at "toxic fans" and quotes from a Snyder hater, the article is worthwhile.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210222161550/https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/02/the-true-story-of-justice-league-snyder-cut
The "noxious fan" bit rly gets old. People bantz each other online. That's what the Internet has always been.
When it comes to actually malicious, nobody seems to ever have a screen shot or any other proof. It's like it's a self-propagating lie that nobody ever bothers to fact-check. Vanity Fair is a member in good standing of the mainstream media. And dammit, there's a narrative to reinforce here. And they'll reinforce by any means necessary. But by now, I would hope that any free-thinking individual will demand proof of all these alleged abusive fans and their supposed bad behavior. Put up or shut up, journalists. Something isn't true just because a wide variety of mainstream fake news hacks keep repeating it.
The VF article rly is making a pretty big splash. Even a lot of haters seem to have gotten something out of it.
I'm glad they nixed that Bruce and Lois relationship subplot. That's too much like Pearl Harbor.
Quote from: Kamdan on Wed, 24 Feb 2021, 12:39
I'm glad they nixed that Bruce and Lois relationship subplot. That's too much like Pearl Harbor.
I don't think it would've been a relationship. Snyder said something like "Bruce develops feelings for Lois" but I haven't seen anything to make me think his feelings were mutual.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 23 Feb 2021, 03:21
The "noxious fan" bit rly gets old. People bantz each other online. That's what the Internet has always been.
When it comes to actually malicious, nobody seems to ever have a screen shot or any other proof. It's like it's a self-propagating lie that nobody ever bothers to fact-check. Vanity Fair is a member in good standing of the mainstream media. And dammit, there's a narrative to reinforce here. And they'll reinforce by any means necessary. But by now, I would hope that any free-thinking individual will demand proof of all these alleged abusive fans and their supposed bad behavior. Put up or shut up, journalists. Something isn't true just because a wide variety of mainstream fake news hacks keep repeating it.
Tell me about it. As a matter of fact, there is proof of bloggers engaging in the sort of behaviour they condemn so much, such as Kayleigh Donaldson. She ought to take a good hard look at herself before she calls out anybody else for toxic behaviour as she did in that article:
https://twitter.com/Kayne_Martin/status/1363888827769774082
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 23 Feb 2021, 18:29
The VF article rly is making a pretty big splash. Even a lot of haters seem to have gotten something out of it.
Definitely. There is so much to take from it, from Deborah Snyder AND Christopher Nolan shielding Zack from watching Josstice League to save his state of mind, to Snyder himself calling out the studio's agenda in trying to release the unfinished cut and the emotions of going through such a turmoil behind the scenes.
Gotta love these photos from the additional photography.
(https://web.archive.org/web/20210222161550/https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/602c065887fe511dd1a37ef1/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/VF1321_Snyder_EMBED-03b.jpg)
(https://web.archive.org/web/20210222161550/https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/602c0659b9f9b86e12a660af/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/VF1321_Snyder_EMBED-04.jpg)
(https://web.archive.org/web/20210222161550/https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/602c065916eafd7504c103aa/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/VF1321_Snyder_EMBED-05a.jpg)
(https://web.archive.org/web/20210222161550/https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/602c065916eafd7504c103ab/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/VF1321_Snyder_EMBED-05b.jpg)
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 24 Feb 2021, 13:50
Gotta love these photos from the additional photography.
(https://web.archive.org/web/20210222161550/https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/602c065887fe511dd1a37ef1/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/VF1321_Snyder_EMBED-03b.jpg)
That Passion of the Clown picture is absolutely
priceless.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 25 Feb 2021, 06:59
That Passion of the Clown picture is absolutely priceless.
I can see how religious people would find this photo blasphemous, but I reckon it's perfectly outrageous for the Joker. Besides, it's not the first time such blasphemous imagery happened in Batman-related media, as you can see in the last page of
Batman: Damned #1.
(https://insidepulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Batman-Damned-1-cliffhanger-blasphemy.jpg)
I found a couple of new pictures. Here is another black and white photo of Knightmare Batman:
(https://i.imgur.com/yD0jhsH.jpg)
And while WB Pictures appears to try its best to sabotage ZSJL by announcing a brand new Superman project produced by JJ Abrams, Snyder uploaded this great new artwork of Superman and various Easter eggs throughout his journey in the DCEU thus far. This artwork is apparently going to appear on IGN Fan Fest.
(https://i.imgur.com/54rt5RY.jpg)
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/3fj-RqXXpq8gqphhbkGgZvpR
From what I can tell, the Easter eggs are:
- Superman's arms appearing in a similar pose to the statue in BvS.
- The stab wound to the chest by Doomsday.
- The Black Zero ship from MOS.
- The school bus that Clark rescued when he was a teen in MOS.
- The Kryptonite spear from BvS.
- The red-glowing Mother Box behind Superman from ZSJL.
- The statue of the Daily Planet globe, that Clark walked past by during the end of MOS
- Krypton and what appears to be baby Kal-El's escape pod appearing at the top of the picture, from MOS.
- The Codex key from MOS.
Not to mention the entire artwork resembles exactly as the holographic graphics that Jor-El showed to Clark about Krypton's history in MOS.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 27 Feb 2021, 00:20
Krypton and what appears to be baby Kal-El's escape pod appearing at the top of the picture, from MOS.
Come to think of it, I may be wrong, that planet might be Earth and the other object couldbe the Codex, before it was converted into the key by Jor-El.
Zack Snyder was interviewed by IGN today. In this lengthy interview, he revealed there will be a black and white version of the film dubbed "Justice is Grey", and released this wonderful teaser of all six Justice League members as this 3D artwork, which includes the Superman art I showed yesterday. Harry Lennix made a surprise apperance asking a cheeky question about Martian Manhunter and General Swanwick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAG-EbIN4Sc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qBQvwXLoQk
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 25 Feb 2021, 06:59
That Passion of the Clown picture is absolutely priceless.
I'm curious to see what that's all about.
Two new posters have dropped.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvfYQsNVEAIqk9z?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvfadHqVgAA1LwT?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
The one on the right with Batfleck staring at the camera is the best of the ZSJL posters that have been released, in my opinion. The other three are good (especially the tattered JL flag) but it's hard beating the actual characters. And this design is different enough from what we've seen before.
Quote
Zack Snyder to Receive Honor From Hollywood Critics Association (Exclusive)
The Hollywood Critics Association is set to give Zack Snyder its first-ever Valiant Award at the virtual 4th Annual HCA Film Awards ceremony on Friday.
"As a fan of Synder's ever since Dawn of the Dead, I couldn't be happier that we will be acknowledging his visionary filmmaking and resilience to overcome any obstacles," HCA chair Scott Menzel said in a statement on Wednesday.
Snyder, one of the biggest filmmakers in the superhero movie genre and the director of Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice and his upcoming cut of Justice League, is being honored for how he and his wife, Deborah Snyder, who is a producer on Justice League, responded to the death of their daughter, Autumn Snyder, by suicide in March 2017 at age 20.
"As someone whose own life was impacted due to suicide, I was extremely moved by how Zack and his wife and business partner Deborah turned their incommensurable pain into altruistic action, spearheading an effort that has helped countless individuals and families," HCA chair Ashley Menzel added in her own statement.
In December of 2020, Snyder and his fanbase helped raise over $500,000 dollars for the American Foundation of Suicide Prevention. To raise additional funds for the AFSP during the HCA Film Awards, the Hollywood critics association plans to purchase a host of Snyder's merchandise on the Ink to the People fundraising platform to give away on their social media channels during the ceremony.
Snyder is set to release his own cut of Justice League on March 18 on HBO Max. And the epic zombie action-thriller Army of the Dead, which he co-wrote with Shay Hatten and directed for Netflix, is set to launch on May 21.
Snyder is also producing the German language prequel of Army of the Dead for Netflix, as well as an animated series of the same name.
The 4th annual HCA Film Awards will stream virtually on March 5 on the official HCA Facebook page and YouTube Channel.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/news/zack-snyder-to-receive-honor-from-hollywood-critics-association-exclusive
As nice as a sentiment it may seem to honour the man for his perseverance during the last three years, it's going to look ugly when the critics with Snyder Derangement Syndrome use any hyperbolic excuse to tear ZSJL apart in a few weeks. But at least the chairman of the HCA can show his admiration and gratitude for the man and what he had achieved over the past year.
Batman-centric teaser was released today. Contains voiceovers of Harry Lennix's Martian Manhunter and Ray Porter's Darkseid.
https://youtu.be/f2qLW6rKp4o
Now it's Superman's turn for a character teaser.
https://youtu.be/NS1P5UxFkbk
Aquaman character teaser. You can hear Willem Dafoe as Vulko in one of the voiceovers.
https://youtu.be/P1HvbaBIpP8
Quote from: Kamdan on Wed, 24 Feb 2021, 12:39
I'm glad they nixed that Bruce and Lois relationship subplot. That's too much like Pearl Harbor.
I'm sure I read somewhere Snyder said it would've been changed so that the child was Clark's and not Bruce's. The conception would've occurred on Kent Farm while Clark was recuperating in ZSJL. Having Clark raising Bruce's kid would've been a deal breaker for me, but I have nothing against brainstorming ideas to eventually reach an outcome. That's creativity 101. Apart from that detail, which was changed, Zack's outline was a true epic.
I'm usually against Batman dying for real, but Snyder's plan for Batfleck was like poetry. Superman's death provided humanity, however the resurrection proves he's not of this world. He will outlive them all, which is a blessing and a curse. Batman can't match that lifespan because he really is just a man, and dying and staying dead proves it. But the legend endures.
Batfleck's arc seems to be a journey of acceptance.
BvS: Weary and willing to die to stop Superman.
ZSJL: Feeling guilty and willing to die to atone for sins, but is forgiven.
Future arc: Sacrifices himself for Lois, avoiding Superman's rampage.
When he does lay down his life it's for the right reasons, and something is achieved. He dies a hero, not an angry or depressed man.
Having Affleck's solo film after ZSJL would've rounded things out nicely. I hold out hope Zack gets to adapt his original plan in animation, comics or whatever else in the future, but I feel it's going to be a tough fight. HBO Max need to put their foot down if ZSJL is as big as I expect.
The Flash character teaser.
https://youtu.be/ji-wggoVXDg
Wonder Woman character teaser. Unsurprisingly, this is released on International Women's Day.
https://youtu.be/BY2799T9LKI
Warner Butchers have sunk to a new low...HBO Max viewers have reported the latest Tom & Jerry movie somehow got replaced with ZSJL, therefore leaking the Snyder cut by an hour. Some people on social media say it's two hours.
https://www.twitter.com/LightCastPod/status/1369067430912421892
If there is ever a time to fire those wankers Emmerich and Hamada, it's now.
Disgraceful.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 9 Mar 2021, 01:50
Warner Butchers have sunk to a new low...HBO Max viewers have reported the latest Tom & Jerry movie somehow got replaced with ZSJL, therefore leaking the Snyder cut by an hour. Some people on social media say it's two hours.
https://www.twitter.com/LightCastPod/status/1369067430912421892
If there is ever a time to fire those wankers Emmerich and Hamada, it's now.
Disgraceful.
I could actually see this being a legit accident. If it was the full movie, maybe I'd say different. But it looks like it was incomplete even with the longest reports.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 8 Mar 2021, 21:11
Wonder Woman character teaser. Unsurprisingly, this is released on International Women's Day.
https://youtu.be/BY2799T9LKI
Speaking of International Women's Day, Henry posted a picture of him with his mother.
Fittingly, he's in Superman gear.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ev_Wr3iUUAM4u4h.jpg)
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 9 Mar 2021, 05:22
I could actually see this being a legit accident. If it was the full movie, maybe I'd say different. But it looks like it was incomplete even with the longest reports.
Let's not be naive, this is Warner we're talking about here. You'd be hard-pressed to hear about any other streaming service doing this.
Word of advice, be very careful how you surf the Web, because trolls are leaking some scenes online.
Quote from: The Joker on Tue, 9 Mar 2021, 06:21
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 8 Mar 2021, 21:11
Wonder Woman character teaser. Unsurprisingly, this is released on International Women's Day.
https://youtu.be/BY2799T9LKI
Speaking of International Women's Day, Henry posted a picture of him with his mother.
Fittingly, he's in Superman gear.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ev_Wr3iUUAM4u4h.jpg)
It's nice of Cavill paying a tribute to his own mother, but the only thing I can think of while looking at that photo is how much of a cheeky little f***er he must've been as a kid!
Cyborg character teaser.
https://youtu.be/coCA3snj83c
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 9 Mar 2021, 05:22
I could actually see this being a legit accident. If it was the full movie, maybe I'd say different. But it looks like it was incomplete even with the longest reports.
It's either incompetence or malicious sour grapes and shouldn't happen in any case.
WB already said ZSJL is a dead end and it hasn't even been officially released yet. They wanted Zack to release an unedited rough cut of the film instead of polishing it. That informs my knowledge enough to say WB are going along with the rollout but they don't have their heart in it.
Expect ZSJL 'complaints' to be the same old stuff reheated over and over without context.
This comment from ScreenRant:
QuoteDuring the action of Justice League's latest trailer, when Batman is shown swinging onto the tower against parademons, a giant gun/turret is briefly visible in the background. Thanks to concept art and confirmation from Zack Snyder on the social network Vero, viewers have known for a while now that Batman will use this anti-aircraft sized cannon to shoot down a bunch of parademons. It's an impressive piece of lethal hardware that Ben Affleck's antihero will be wielding according to the trailer, but there's no question Zack Snyder's decision to double down on arming Batman to the nines will spark more mixed reaction across the character's sizeable fandom.
Killing a Parademon is the equivalent of squashing a bug or swatting a fly. Batman is the better fighter and can grind out a victory, but backup like the Knightcrawler is required to really compete and save time. How else can a mortal man fend off things double his strength, taking out dozens at once when surrounded? If a section of the fandom takes issue with this they're a lost cause.
Darkseid and Steppenwolf share their own character teaser.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxYnoGqea_w
I've been reading lots of gatekeepers tweeting how Snyder "doesn't get" Darkseid because they don't like the character design, so it's amusing to me that Jack Kirby's grandson Jeremy gave his seal of approval.
Quote from: Zack Snyder
Quote from: Jeremy Kirby
Thank you @ZackSnyder
Honored to represent. #Darkseid #DeSaad
https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1369725090980528129
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 4 Mar 2021, 11:02
Zack Snyder to Receive Honor From Hollywood Critics Association (Exclusive)
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/news/zack-snyder-to-receive-honor-from-hollywood-critics-association-exclusive
Here is the video of Snyder accepting the Valiant Award, paying tribute to the fans who have donated to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MLkSYu8dwA
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 8 Mar 2021, 00:49I hold out hope Zack gets to adapt his original plan in animation, comics or whatever else in the future, but I feel it's going to be a tough fight. HBO Max need to put their foot down if ZSJL is as big as I expect.
Grace Randolph has access to Snyder, so her scoops there have been accurate. She has now tweeted multiple sources are saying "JL2 and 3 might now be possible" and "some suits want Snyder to direct Wonder Woman 3". Hell to the yes with the full Justice League arc being completed. I wouldn't say no to Zack helming WW3, but the original story arc would be my priority. Who knows? The answer remains the same: support ZSJL like crazy and make the idea of ignoring this hot product insanity. One week to go, fam.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 11 Mar 2021, 23:02
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 8 Mar 2021, 00:49I hold out hope Zack gets to adapt his original plan in animation, comics or whatever else in the future, but I feel it's going to be a tough fight. HBO Max need to put their foot down if ZSJL is as big as I expect.
Grace Randolph has access to Snyder, so her scoops there have been accurate. She has now tweeted multiple sources are saying "JL2 and 3 might now be possible" and "some suits want Snyder to direct Wonder Woman 3". Hell to the yes with the full Justice League arc being completed. I wouldn't say no to Zack helming WW3, but the original story arc would be my priority. Who knows? The answer remains the same: support ZSJL like crazy and make the idea of ignoring this hot product insanity. One week to go, fam.
Mmm, still not sure how that would work without a theatrical release.
My assumption is that mega budget blockbusters are unlikely until gigantic opening weekends are possible once more. We'll see tho, CGI costs are a lot lower now than they were just a few years ago. But maybe I'm wrong and there's a way to do big budget stuff that I'm overlooking.
I'm trying to wrap my head around where it would fit in terms of continuity and platform. HBO Max seems the logical destination rather than cinemas. If HBO Max makes a ton of cash it provides confidence more films would have the same response.
The DCEU is continuing with Michael Keaton and tying up the original Snyderverse plan.
Affleck is appearing in Flashpoint, but under what circumstances? To be killed off?
Does a Snyderverse continuation work within that Batfleck Flashpoint appearance or ignore it, and just continue after ZSJL?
I'd rather the Flashpoint appearance end with Batfleck being consigned to his own universe, allowing Flashpoint to remain canon, while continuing the original JL2/JL3 timeline separately. The mess would be if League members such as Momoa, Gadot, Miller, etc keep appearing in live action films with Keaton.
Joe Manganiello revealed his role as Deathstroke had been cut from several projects during the sabotage of the DCEU. Other than Affleck's Batman project getting scrapped in early 2017, a solo Deathstroke film was tossed aside, as well as his appearance in a Suicide Squad sequel; which he was supposed to face off against Will Smith's Deadshot.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/heat-vision/how-joe-manganiellos-deathstroke-ideas-seeped-into-zack-snyders-justice-league
Manganiello also participated in another interview with Ray Fisher, who spoke about the difficult transition between Snyder leaving and Whedon's involvement.
Fisher even alleged that Whedon carried his burden and frustration over people's criticism of Age of Ultron, and claims that was why he recycled the joke of Flash falling on top of Wonder Woman, as Bruce Banner did to Natasha Romanoff. Even got to a point when Whedon called Wonder Woman "Natasha".
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/03/ray-fisher-justice-league-joe-manganiello-batman-deathstroke-cyborg
Final trailer is here.
https://youtu.be/ZrdQSAX2kyw
can't be any more excited!
Just a few more days. That trailer is a good reminder of just how much new stuff we're in for.
Not watching the trailer. My popcorn is ready for the big day, and it will last four hours. Going to be lots to talk about.
I don't know what the hell is going, but so far, ZSJL is surprisingly getting very positive reviews. The early fan feedback is unsurprisingly ecstatic, but even the majority of the critics seem to be very enthusiastic about it. Whether or not the sentiment will stay the same over the weekend remains to be seen.
As we're on the verge of the film's release day, Snyder sat down for an interview with The New York Times to speak about the cut's development. He spoke about his struggles behind the scenes back in 2017, how he thought DC needed to differentiate itself from Marvel's action-comedy formula by focusing on the mythology of the characters, and looks back at his unapologetic approach to film-making.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210316180401/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/14/movies/zack-snyders-rough-and-tumble-ride-with-justice-league.html
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 11:48but even the majority of the critics seem to be very enthusiastic about it.
Be that as it may, for sure I'm not reading anybody's review until
after I see the movie myself. But even after watching it, I'm in no position to guarantee I'll read reviews.
As you might remember, I don't trust most film critics any further than I can throw them. If they're largely responding positively to ZSJL, good for them, I guess. But the time to do the right thing was five years ago and it's too late now for tradebacks.
Still, I've got plenty of popcorn, nachos and other snacks to get me through ZSJL's four'ish hour runtime. I have never depended upon consensus from others and there's no reason to start now that victory is in sight.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 12:21
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 11:48but even the majority of the critics seem to be very enthusiastic about it.
Be that as it may, for sure I'm not reading anybody's review until after I see the movie myself. But even after watching it, I'm in no position to guarantee I'll read reviews.
As you might remember, I don't trust most film critics any further than I can throw them. If they're largely responding positively to ZSJL, good for them, I guess. But the time to do the right thing was five years ago and it's too late now for tradebacks.
Still, I've got plenty of popcorn, nachos and other snacks to get me through ZSJL's four'ish hour runtime. I have never depended upon consensus from others and there's no reason to start now that victory is in sight.
I agree with you 100%. I'm only expressing my confusion over the positive critical consensus at this point in time, after years of critics deriding Snyder's work.
Tomorrow, I'll be able to stream this baby. Unless the streaming service I'm using sucks or the demand for the film causes it to crash, I shall occupy my evening without distraction.
Meanwhile, The Simpsons gave a nod to the Snyder cut.
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/kwSm-n2thr9xWjFMPq1tXnWj
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/JTN-KwQLQhT6BpLprVzSL3Z3
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 12:21
As you might remember, I don't trust most film critics any further than I can throw them. If they're largely responding positively to ZSJL, good for them, I guess. But the time to do the right thing was five years ago and it's too late now for tradebacks.
Very true.
There are so many people who are going to see ZSJL but don't have their heart in it. They're either not fans of the genre and look down upon it. Or they're Snyder haters, or simply prefer the Marvel route and want everybody to know it. That's the baggage sections of people are bringing to the table. To them, ZSJL is just another movie. But it's far from that for us. The ambivalent viewers haven't been sitting around waiting for the latest trailer or update. They're watching because ZSJL has become an international event, but there's simply no way for them to understand the importance of the moment for true fans.
A certain Batman website gave their thoughts on the movie and I'd honestly rather they didn't even get the opportunity to see the movie. A four hour spectacle involving Batman that was possibly under lock and key forever being dismissed as a side note is pure personal grudge. These Snyder haters don't get any respect from me whatsoever. Zack's following has been solidified among the true believers - if the general public truly put aside their baggage maybe I can see them in a more favorable light. But that's asking too much from certain people.
But enough of that. We stand on the threshold of greatness. Zack, I'm ready.
Hell with it, I'm watching ZSJL tonight.
If you don't know where to find it, idk what to tell you.
The first ten minutes of ZSJL is already far superior to the entirety of Josstice League. Those of you who choose to wait for tomorrow are in for a major league treat, believe me.
Edit 01- Forty minutes in and I still haven't seen one frame of footage from the Whedon cut.
Edit 02- Over an hour in and I must say, the pacing on ZSJL is rly something else. Smooth as glass. Absolutely incredible.
Edit 03- Putting it on pause until tomorrow. Loving it so far.
I watched ZSJL tonight.
Without a doubt, this is the true sequel to BvS. It removes Whedon's pointless quips and restores genuine dramatic weight to the characters, particularly Cyborg and The Flash. Steppenwolf was a menacing threat, instead of that dumbed-down version we got in theaters.
Thanks and congrats to all the fans, Zack Snyder and the cast and crew who succeeded in getting the real Justice League film as intended to see the light of day. Shame on Toby Emmerich, Geoff Johns, Joss Whedon and Jon Berg for locking this up in a vault and serving us a fugazi instead.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 18 Mar 2021, 00:33
The first ten minutes of ZSJL is already far superior to the entirety of Josstice League. Those of you who choose to wait for tomorrow are in for a major league treat, believe me.
I've just finished watching the movie. My initial thoughts are that the slow motion sequences are art. They alone make ZSJL a very different type of comic book movie and one we haven't seen before. When you add in the four hour runtime, we really are dealing with a whole other beast rather than vanilla mainstream.
The League converge nicely, feel developed, and with their personal demons feel like real people rather than just comic characters. The humor was just about perfect, managing to elicit a smile but not descending into cringe. It's a definitely more hopeful movie because Batman is hopeful.
This has got to be one of the best looking comic films you have ever seen. The soundtrack is excellent, and let's not speak about Elfman's version ever again. Steppenwolf is a much improved villain and one I care about a lot more. The search for the Motherboxes carries more weight, and by the time the members meet Gordon on the rooftop you're ready for the fight to begin. Everything feels earned.
Cyborg is definitely the main character here and Ray did a great job. I'm glad it's out there for people to see now. Batman didn't feature as much as I would've liked but he was handled with respect and had great moments to shine. That goes for all of the characters. Everything is improved across the board. It's a smorgasbord of a movie and another viewing will be in order soon.
The movie didn't meet my expectations. It exceeded them.
Finally finished the movie. Absolutely adored it. Weird how Superman is absent for most of the movie, and yet his presence is felt in every scene.
I said the first ten minutes of ZSJL are far superior to the entirety of Josstice League. I stand by that. But ZSJL as a complete package is simply on an entirely different plane from Whedon's thing.
Whedon attempted to make a goofy popcorn movie. Snyder made a true epic. The two simply do not deserve to be compared to one another.
Obviously, I want more. But, barring an official announcement to the contrary, I am proceeding on the assumption that we have seen the last of the Snyderverse. And if that's the case, what a note to go out on!
There is a lot to unpack with this movie. But until later (say Monday?), I think it would only be fair to avoid spoilers for now so that others can cruise around here freely.
My two cents.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 18 Mar 2021, 23:52
There is a lot to unpack with this movie. But until later (say Monday?), I think it would only be fair to avoid spoilers for now so that others can cruise around here freely.
I'm speaking in general terms for the time being, as well.
I noticed a couple missing scenes that Snyder may have filmed, but think it was a tonal decision and to provide a point of difference to the theatrical cut. I'm cool with that, as the scenes are found in the trailers anyway, and look at all we gained. More thoughts:
All the stuff I hated about Whedon's cut is gone.
Snyder celebrates the DC universe in a way other directors have not.
The tone is consistent.
More connective tissue with BvS, making it feel like a true sequel.
Genuine sincerity among the team, especially with Aquaman expressing concern.
The Flash comes across better here, jokey but more relatable and focused.
Wonder Woman gets a very strong showing. This is how she's meant to be.
Alfred is minimally used but highly effective. Entertaining scenarios and dialogue.
I enjoyed Cyborg and his father a lot more than expected.
Not sure if I prefer this or BvS yet. I'm leaning on the side of BvS given I really appreciated that intensity. But this is a very strong sequel and one I'm glad we now have.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 19 Mar 2021, 00:39
Not sure if I prefer this or BvS yet. I'm leaning on the side of BvS given I really appreciated that intensity. But this is a very strong sequel and one I'm glad we now have.
I enjoy BVS's focus and unrelenting
gotterdammerung. It's the Super Friends as interpreted by Wagner. It's almost operatic at points.
I love ZSJL. And who knows, I might change my mind in the future. But if I had to call it right now, I'd say BVS will always be #1 on my list because it's a direct sequel to MOS and it leads directly ZSJL. It's the centerpiece of the movie series and it's just amazing.
I'm a LOTR fan. I finished my re-read about a week ago and focused on the extended edition movies before that. ZSJL is the closest a comic book movie has come to being true mythology. Exotic lands with rich history, full of various different cultures and customs. I enjoy that type of thing.
Superman isn't in the film that much, but we need to consider he was established with the previous two films. Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg didn't have that, and thus get a lion's share of the screen time. When Superman does arrive it's what I was hoping for.
The new Knightmare does feel a little tacked on and will throw people off initially. But it's a good scene, especially with what Batman has to say. The way Snyder transitions from the Knightmare clears up any confusion and once again calls back to BvS. Even if ZSJL is the end of the road, the way the camera pulled away left me feeling at peace.
I dunno, man...I dunno?
I watched it again, and it's even better the second time around.
I liked the sequencing before, but seeing it all again with a calmer mind demonstrated to me the flow is just about spot on for a film this size. For example, Bruce boards a plane, and it's logical that a flight takes time. So we don't see him for a bit. But we later check in onboard the cabin, then more narratives are progressed. But in that little cabin scene know what Bruce will be doing when he lands. But only after his target is given a lengthy introductory sequence.
With so many characters it's unavoidable having a bunch of balls hanging in the air at any one time, but these balls aren't left hanging for too long. If you keep watching the questions one has are answered fairly soon. Not all big films can execute that juggle as skilfully.
The ultimate edition of BvS was an improvement over the Theatrical, but this is a whole other level.
Let's talk turkey about the future.
At this point, I think it's fair to say ZSJL has pushed the door wide open. The movie sets up Flashpoint and Affleck's cancelled solo Batman film pretty much perfectly. And the desire to see a follow up to ZSJL is very real.
I wasn't sure it would be this way. But considering the incredible buzz ZSJL has generated, The Powers That Be would have to be pretty stupid to not be having conversations about how best to continue this thing now.
And that opens up a lot of challenges, if you ask me. How do you make a mega budget blockbuster in today's market? Theaters are still down for the count and it doesn't look like that will change any time soon. Maybe the problem is that I don't fully understand the streaming distribution model. But I just don't see how $200+ million movie can turn a profit rn. Streaming and Blu-Ray can only take you so far.
There's also the fact that Zack Snyder Doesn't Want to Make Another Comic Book Movie- https://screenrant.com/zack-snyder-comic-book-movie-future-plans-response
But aside from that stuff, fans and audiences have largely embraced ZSJL. Go back and read my old posts. I thought for certain that critics were already sharpening their axes for ZSJL months ago. But 75% on Rotten Tomatoes is over twice what BVS got and nearly twice what Josstice League got. So, it looks like I was wrong there.
There's reason to believe that genuine conversations are taking place rn regarding continuing what ZSJL set up. I'm up for it. But I see a lot of challenges too.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 19 Mar 2021, 15:19
There's also the fact that Zack Snyder Doesn't Want to Make Another Comic Book Movie- https://screenrant.com/zack-snyder-comic-book-movie-future-plans-response
Zack deliberately didn't get paid to maintain leverage. He's thought things through. It would be extremely fitting if the studio, or HBO Max, I'll take either one, got on their hands and knees to beg Zack to come back and restore the Snyderverse. Saying he doesn't want to make another CBM is 'the dread game' in action.
Zack Snyder uploaded a video to thanks the fans for their support and tuning in to watch ZSJL, via the official Snyder cut Twitter page.
https://www.twitter.com/snydercut/status/1373080726485282818
Take the following info with a grain of salt, but on the day before the film was released, Mikey Sutton of Geekosity claims there are plans for a JL sequel, and WB may want it in theatres.
https://geekositymag.com/wb-considering-zack-snyders-justice-league-2-for-theatrical-release/
Any plans for a sequels, according to what I read from insiders online, would depend on how HBO Max's subscriber count goes thanks to interest in ZSJL, how many views it gets and how it sells digitally and on home video. And if Snyder is right when he said the US, and Asian and European countries had their HBO platforms crashing because they couldn't cope with the demand, then that could be another factor to consider.
I'm skeptical WB would want to have any sequels in theatres because of the constant bad press they've gotten ever since opting with Josstice League in 2017. But let's wait and see.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 20 Mar 2021, 02:18
Zack Snyder uploaded a video to thanks the fans for their support and tuning in to watch ZSJL, via the official Snyder cut Twitter page.
https://www.twitter.com/snydercut/status/1373080726485282818
Take the following info with a grain of salt, but on the day before the film was released, Mikey Sutton of Geekosity claims there are plans for a JL sequel, and WB may want it in theatres.
https://geekositymag.com/wb-considering-zack-snyders-justice-league-2-for-theatrical-release/
Any plans for a sequels, according to what I read from insiders online, would depend on how HBO Max's subscriber count goes thanks to interest in ZSJL, how many views it gets and how it sells digitally and on home video. And if Snyder is right when he said the US, and Asian and European countries had their HBO platforms crashing because they couldn't cope with the demand, then that could be another factor to consider.
I'm skeptical WB would want to have any sequels in theatres because of the constant bad press they've gotten ever since opting with Josstice League in 2017. But let's wait and see.
TDK suggested that Snyder was being coy when I posted a bit about how he doesn't want to make comic movies anymore.
I said my piece, he said his, that's that. Or so I thought.
But now, it seems like Snyder is entertaining the idea of ZSJL2.
https://comicbook.com/dc/news/zack-snyder-wants-justice-league-2-sequel
So, hats off to TDK, I guess. Seems like he might've called it. There's a long road between that article and ZSJL2's premiere, obviously. But clearly, one step has been taken by Snyder himself.
Zack knows the enthusiasm levels for his universe are high. Do you think a leader with that much clout is going to disappoint his followers if there's a serious offer of a continuation? Not a chance.
It's just about getting that offer.
If this is an ideological battle, Zack is being vindicated as we speak. ZSJL was deemed unwatchable, but right now it's being praised left and right. If this is a financial battle, Zack is being vindicated there as well. WB did Zack dirty. As I said, it would be extremely satisfying if he, the outcast, had them crawl back to him. It would be one of the most remarkable long games in entertainment history.
ZSJL is out of the bottle now. The world has seen it, and the drums are only going to get louder about what happens next. And if nothing happens, they're going to want a worthwhile explanation why. That may prove to be more difficult to answer than the studio expected.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 20 Mar 2021, 06:57
Zack knows the enthusiasm levels for his universe are high. Do you think a leader with that much clout is going to disappoint his followers if there's a serious offer of a continuation? Not a chance.
It's just about getting that offer.
If this is an ideological battle, Zack is being vindictive as we speak. ZSJL was deemed unwatchable, but right now it's being praised left and right. If this is a financial battle, Zack is being vindicated there as well. WB did Zack dirty. As I said, it would be extremely satisfying if he, the outcast, had them crawl back to him. It would be one of the most remarkable long games in entertainment history.
ZSJL is out of the bottle now. The world has seen it, and the drums are only going to get louder about what happens next. And if nothing happens, they're going to want a worthwhile explanation why. That may prove to be more difficult to answer than the studio expected.
As you say, the bell's already been rung. They've heard it.
AT&T seems to be getting the ROI they expected from ZSJL. The buzz about ZSJL is off the charts. If The Powers That Were from WB still had jobs rn, they'd all get fired Monday morning. But that's already been done and now there's nothing left. Looking to the future, I can't imagine that serious businessmen like the kind you'd expect to see at AT&T aren't questioning how best to maximize what they've built here. You don't get to AT&T's level if you throw opportunities away like they're nothing. With ZSJL, they've had a taste and now they want more. Be sure of that.
This much I can say tho. If I'm a big shot at AT&T, I have less of a reason now than ever before to want to listen to what WB has to say. As I've said, AT&T is in
the business of business. They've never been part of the Hollywood Kool-Aid factory and they have no desire to join in. They only thing they give two F's about is making a profit. And they seem to be making a profit rn.
I find it strange that AT&T is simultaneously the worst thing that's ever happened to DC Comics but the best thing that's ever happened to WB. I suppose it's like anything else in life. You take the good with the bad.
No matter how you want to look at it, Hollywood will never be the same again if AT&T's "Business first" approach succeeds.
Side Note: This is not a political thing. But it is a non-controversial fact that Snyder has libertarian sympathies out the wazoo. I daresay the success of ZSJL may not have been possible under a different filmmaker. Basically by definition, libertarians are capitalists. Snyder has a creative interest in ZSJL. But he also has an ideological commitment to the financial aspects of the movie. The success of blowing the dust off ZSJL may not be a fungible commodity. ZSJL is the perfect storm of a parent company financially committed to business and a director ideologically committed to both free artistic expression and to profit in likely equal measures. As you know, Snyders don't exactly grow on trees in that town.
For those reasons, I'm beginning to rethink the wisdom of updating other butchered movies. Success is not guaranteed. Perhaps it is better to build new creative enterprises from here on in rather than try to salvage old ones. Yes, even the Ayers cut of Suicide Squad. As it stands, 2021 is already a crowded slate for HBO Max, such that a restored cut of Suicide Squad might get drowned out over and against, say, The Matrix 4.
Do you believe it's time to move forward? Or should fans keep asking for Suicide Squad, Batman Forever, etc?
I'm making my way through stuff I've had bookmarked since forever but never got around to reading until now. There's this gem:
https://news.avclub.com/patty-jenkins-slams-joss-whedons-justice-league-i-don-1845847710
To hell with the story, it's a moot point these days. Rather, focus your attention on the comments. Man, those commenters have got to be living in a world of $#!+ right now. My favorite:
"Marvel planned everything out in advance to establish the MCU as a shared world"
That's just plain not true. The Avengers thing never came about until halfway through principal photography on Iron Man. There's a reason Favreau complained that he had basically complete freedom on the first Iron Man and then the expectation of shooting an Avengers infomercial for the second one. The degree to which Phase One-era Marvel Studios planned everything out and their burn-rate on directors rivals Lucasfilm for sheer incompetence. They adjusted nimbly, they got it under control, but things were pretty scattershot for a few years there.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 20 Mar 2021, 07:35
Do you believe it's time to move forward? Or should fans keep asking for Suicide Squad, Batman Forever, etc?
To me it's about timing. I'd like the Ayer cut as much as anybody, and in time I think that can happen. A restored Ayer cut is important for Snyderverse purity. But we need to get our priorities right and at the right time. What is the ultimate dream? To restore the Snyderverse as an active brand. If the original continuity is going to live again the time to push for that is
right now.
If that can't happen I say we then return our full gaze to demanding other director's cuts. Originally the idea was to give Zack and Affleck a sense of closure by making ZSJL available. But things can escalate, and let's hope they do.
In a perfect world I'd have Affleck doing a miniseries while JL2 and 3 are in development. Gossip sites claimed Affleck has signed up for such a production and it would be announced later in the year. Their credibility is on the line. Let's see how that pans out, because I'm feeling confident the international release of the Snyder cut will pique studio interest - even if they loathe Zack and his style.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 20 Mar 2021, 07:55
"Marvel planned everything out in advance to establish the MCU as a shared world"
WW, MOS, BvS, SS and ZSJL represent a tight continuity and Zack publicly shared what future JL instalments would entail. Anybody who claims the DCEU as it originated didn't have a clear plan don't know what they're talking. They just didn't like it.
Is a Schumacher cut of Forever even possible? Like are all the scenes from that original cut still around after 20 years?
Seeing as this is kinda the official thread, I'll post this here:
I'm watching Justice League and will post my thoughts here in this post as I have them.
I'm a quarter or so through Part 2 and so far I am shocked how little is changed. It feels like an assembly cut that just adds suppliment material. The stuff that works best is the tonal consistency and the connective tissue. Mr. Wolf being reinstated as an agent of Darkseid is an obvious improvement, but these are small things and aren't leaving me impressed yet. It feels like a more coherent version of a not very good movie that is shockingly more familiar than I thought it would be,. Still bad. Just slower about it.
Edit 1: Mr. Wolf is far and away the best thing going for this version. Strong connective tissue. The Barry Allen intro exemplifies one of the chief problems with Snyder. Not being able to handle multiple bits of business at once. A lovely series of images it is and it would be a wonderful first moment in a Flash solo picture, but in a giant ensemble we need to accomplish many things at once and expedite. This sequence does nothing but say "here is the Flash." That is why stuff like this gets cut.
Edit 2: Half done and lots of things going on. Some of it quite strong, but there is so many different separate threads and everything is so decentralized that nothing takes hold. Wolf is still strong and frankly feels like the main character because he feels central. Still shocked at how much of this is literally the same, so much so that I'd say Whedon had much less of an impact on this movie than previously believed.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Sat, 20 Mar 2021, 21:21
Still shocked at how much of this is literally the same, so much so that I'd say Whedon had much less of an impact on this movie than previously believed.
Excuse me, but I don't know you could think Whedon didn't make much of an impact. He changed the beginning of the film, neutered Steppenwolf and removed all traces of Darkseid and Desaad, removed Aquaman's meeting with Vulko that explored his resentment towards his own heritage, and removed Cyborg's character arc in favour of a pointless Russian family subplot. Not to mention the addition of pointless reshoots of unfunny jokes and butchered introductory scenes Superman and Batman scenes he wrote.
If you're halfway through the film and think Whedon didn't make much of an impact...I don't know what else to say.
The main plot itself was always going to be the same. It was a matter of
how it was told that was going to be different. Similar to how Superman II was when comparing Lester and Donner. Same plot, different movie.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sat, 20 Mar 2021, 20:46
Is a Schumacher cut of Forever even possible? Like are all the scenes from that original cut still around after 20 years?
In terms of arranging the original sequencing that wouldn't be a problem. I think BF is the most underrated Batman movie, and fully restored it's elevated further.
I signed up specially to Now TV just to watch this. By a strange coincidence, I happened to re-watch David Lynch's Lost Highway (1997) last night, which makes prominent use of 'Song to the Siren' by This Mortal Coil - the same song that plays during the JL scene where Barry saves Iris from the car crash. It was going through my head anyway, and then it suddenly popped up in the movie. Weird.
Anyway, now I've got that irrelevant and uninteresting comment out of the way, here's my review.
For many of us comic fans, the goal behind the shared cinematic DC universe was not only to allow the classic heroes to interact with one another on screen (that novelty wore off some time ago), but also to adapt the broader interplanetary mythology of the DC universe into a cinematic production. We've seen that mythology translated into animation and live action TV, and WB tried giving it the movie treatment in the 2011 Green Lantern movie. But I feel like this is the first live action film to fully capture it on screen with an appropriately epic scale. This is, in essence, the storytelling destination that all the earlier DCEU movies were building up to. It might well be my favourite DCEU movie to date, as well as Snyder's most accomplished film as a director.
I can see why others are comparing its world building and mythical scope with Tolkien's work. You've got the ancient Dark Lord who was defeated by an alliance of different races during an earlier age, and the powerful relics he left behind that are now being sought by his wraith-like acolytes. There's also a creepy Lovecraftian vibe to the villains in this version of the film that was totally absent from the Whedon cut. I noticed some Arthurian allusions too. The most obvious is the round table Bruce describes when he and Alfred are discussing the renovation of stately Wayne Manor, but there's also the line "The future has taken root in the present" – spoken when Superman is resurrected – which is taken from John Boorman's Excalibur (1981). The movie feels epic and mythical to a degree no previous DC film has achieved.
Snyder's Justice League legitimises some of the more elliptical plot points in Batman v Superman, and I wonder if some of the critics who trashed BvS might look more favourably on it if they were to re-watch the Ultimate Edition after seeing JL. I think some of them would. This film's certainly getting a more positive critical reception than BvS did. Perhaps more reviewers are starting to realise that not every superhero team-up movie has to follow The Avengers formula. One problem I had with the 2017 version of JL is that it came across as DC's attempt at making an Avengers film, which I suspect is what Whedon and the studio intended. By contrast, Snyder's JL doesn't feel like it's trying to imitate anything. It's its own movie with its own identity, and all the better for it.
One of the film's biggest strengths is its deliberate pacing and structure. I can see why the runtime would be off-putting to some, and that's fair enough. But I liked how scenes where allowed to play out, and how character-centric moments were given time to breathe; to let the viewer soak in the atmosphere. The film doesn't breathlessly jump from one location to another the way some of the recent Star Wars films did. Instead it takes it's time focussing on each plot point before moving on to the next. This allows for actual scenes, and not just rapid fire montages. When I heard the film was four hours long, I was concerned that the extra footage would be mostly CG action. In reality though, most of the deleted scenes are quiet character-driven moments that flesh out the protagonists and make us care more about what's at stake. The fact so many of these scenes were removed from the theatrical cut makes me realise just how badly edited the Whedon version was to begin with.
Here Victor Stone and his father are treated like proper characters and Aquaman is portrayed with far more dignity. Steppenwolf also benefits enormously from the restoration of his deleted scenes. He actually has a personal motive this time, which I don't remember him having in the Whedon cut. Maybe he did have one there too, but if so it was less clearly stated. In general, the chemistry between the actors in Snyder's cut is more natural and less forced than in the theatrical release. In Whedon's cut I felt like Cyborg and Aquaman were just tagging along for much of the movie, and Whedon's signature banter felt misplaced. In this version, however, each of the six protagonists is given their own story arc that fits neatly within the broader overarching narrative. The plot makes good use of each hero and feels cohesive in the way it interweaves their storylines. It was also nice to see Marc McClure's scenes restored, since he was edited out of the theatrical version entirely. Affleck also looked a lot healthier and in better shape here than in Whedon's version. You can tell his heart was in it more. And we finally got to see Darkseid in a live action movie! How cool is that?
The episodic chapter headings are a nice touch that help structure what might very easily have been a much messier film (see the theatrical cut for proof of that). Andrei Tarkovsky did the same thing with Andrei Rublev (1966), and I find it makes the film easier to revisit if you're not in the mood to watch the entire thing in one sitting. For my initial viewing, I watched Justice League in two sittings spread across one afternoon. But I think the next time I watch it I'll probably do so over two nights, watching three chapters at a time. I expect the chapter breaks were inserted for that very reason, similar to the intermission you might get in a theatrical release. It's a smart editing choice.
On the negative side, I still don't like Miller's take on the Flash. His fast-talking distractible characterisation is far more indebted to Peter Parker than to the serious and analytically-minded Barry Allen of the comics. He could maybe pass for the Bart Allen Impulse, but he's no Barry. The back story's there, and so are the powers, but his personality is too far removed from the source material for my tastes. The movie's CG effects are acceptable for the most part and a definite improvement over the theatrical cut, but I did notice one or two shots that were unconvincing. For example, those early shots of Lex talking with Steppenwolf in the water didn't look quite right. Much as I enjoyed seeing (SPOILER) Martian Hunter, (end SPOILER) his scenes felt tacked on to me. You could remove them entirely and they wouldn't affect the central plot one bit. The same is true of the final Knightmare sequence. In both cases, I expect these were elements Snyder would have preferred to keep for the next film, but used here because he feared he mightn't get a shot at a sequel. This is understandable. I think the scene between Lex and Deathstroke is the most organic place for the movie to end, but I'm glad we finally got to see a proper scene between (SPOILER) Affleck's Batman and Leto's Joker. It was well acted and I thought Leto's performance helped wash away the bad taste left by Suicide Squad. It's also the first time I've heard Batman tell the Joker he's going to kill him since the 1989 movie. (end SPOILER)
Overall I enjoyed it. It's superior to the Whedon cut in literally every way. Better direction, writing, acting, editing, music, action and cinematography. The plot is more layered, the characters are better developed and the pacing is better suited to the scope of the narrative. I thought it was a good film, and like I said before – it might be my favourite DCEU movie so far.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 21 Mar 2021, 00:13
I can see why others are comparing its world building and mythical scope with Tolkien's work.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 21 Mar 2021, 00:13
One of the film's biggest strengths is its deliberate pacing and structure.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 21 Mar 2021, 00:13
Here Victor Stone and his father are treated like proper characters and Aquaman is portrayed with far more dignity. Steppenwolf also benefits enormously from the restoration of his deleted scenes.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 21 Mar 2021, 00:13
In this version, however, each of the six protagonists is given their own story arc that fits neatly within the broader overarching narrative. The plot makes good use of each hero and feels cohesive in the way it interweaves their storylines.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 21 Mar 2021, 00:13
Much as I enjoyed seeing (SPOILER) Martian Hunter, (end SPOILER) his scenes felt tacked on to me. You could remove them entirely and they wouldn't affect the central plot one bit. The same is true of the final Knightmare sequence.
I agree with all this. We're on the same page with all the key areas.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 21 Mar 2021, 00:13
Overall I enjoyed it. It's superior to the Whedon cut in literally every way. Better direction, writing, acting, editing, music, action and cinematography. The plot is more layered, the characters are better developed and the pacing is better suited to the scope of the narrative. I thought it was a good film, and like I said before – it might be my favourite DCEU movie so far.
I was shocked as to how much was changed. It was more than just supplementary material. Whedon should be hiding under the biggest rock imaginable because the difference between the two cuts is severe. This is a professional, polished production and it's the Whedon version, with terrible mouth CGI, which feels like an assembly rush job. A great movie was made bad. But it's now great again. Glad you enjoyed the movie.
Snyder has revealed he filmed the new epilogue scenes against WB's wishes but was forced to make one particular compromise. Spoilers below.
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2564640/zack-snyder-says-the-studio-had-rules-about-what-he-couldnt-put-in-his-snyder-cut-of-justice-league
So much for the multiverse. What's the point of having it if you're still going to prevent other directors from doing their own take on certain characters? It's this sort of sh*t I'm now having doubts about The Flash.
Meanwhile, a black and white version of ZSJL subtitled "Justice is Gray" will be playing soon on HBO Max.
https://twitter.com/snydercut/status/1373424594787446786
Time for final thoughts.
Were Joss Whedon not problematic, I'd say that he might deserve an apology. I would also suggest that the terms Whedon Cut and Snyder Cut create a narrative unconcerned with the truth. Rather what we have is a theatrical cut versus a massive extended cut. The theatrical cut is best described as a rescue attempt, albeit a failed one. It is the worse version, it jettisons the stronger connective tissues because it was decided that Justice League would no longer be a trilogy, making Steppenwolf less effective, and he is far and away the best part of the extended cut because he provides one of few centralizing agents to what is several movies worth. And that is the big kicker. What we have is the same so-so kinda bad movie that is more coherent (Batman V Superman Ultimate Edition anyone?) but with a myriad of other movies going on that pose as character introductions that make it impossible to contend with.
The Cyborg movie is very strong but it has to contend with a zillion other things going on including a movie we've seen already that was hyped as a 'restoration of a vision.' It turns out a handful of scenes added as pothole covers to an already gutted movie does not a Whedon Cut make.
I have no doubt I'm the minority opinion. That's cool. I mean no harm, but that's my view. Thank you and goodnight.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 21 Mar 2021, 01:26
Snyder has revealed he filmed the new epilogue scenes against WB's wishes but was forced to make one particular compromise. Spoilers below.
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2564640/zack-snyder-says-the-studio-had-rules-about-what-he-couldnt-put-in-his-snyder-cut-of-justice-league
This business of ZSJL as an interesting experiment and Josstice League as the canonical version of the story doesn't sit right with me. I suspect most fans are coming from the same place. Somehow, against all odds, even the critics seem to pretty much be on the same page.
In fact, it looks to me like the only people who want the Whedon cut to be canon all work for WB.
And yet, WB doesn't have the final say on this. AT&T ultimately does. If ZSJL truly is the success that it appears to be then maintain the Whedon cut as canon makes literally no sense whatsoever. And AT&T didn't become AT&f**kingT by making decisions that don't make sense.
I'm not saying that automatically leads to ZSJL2. But I
AM saying that ZSJL is very likely to replace Josstice League as canon. That decision costs AT&T literally nothing at this point. But it satisfies a whole bunch of people. Free good will isn't easy to come by in that industry.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Sun, 21 Mar 2021, 01:27I have no doubt I'm the minority opinion. That's cool. I mean no harm, but that's my view. Thank you and goodnight.
Frankly, I have no doubt that you're in the minority opinion either.
Thing is tho, I don't need everyone to repeat my opinions back to me. Disagreement is what makes online discussion fun.
I would like to say that you're not totally wrong when you say that ZSJL tells essentially the same story as the Whedon cut. Batman and Diana assemble the Justice League, they resurrect Superman and they all have a big showdown with Steppenwolf in the end. But the journey is at least as important as the destination. For me, it's simply not arguable that Snyder tells the story and pays it off in ways that are infinitely more satisfying according to my tastes and sensibilities.
If you don't enjoy Snyder's version of the movie, there's probably nothing I can say to change your mind. But I got basically everything I wanted from his movies and I'm quite happy about that.
I'll keep this short and sweet.
As a fan of both Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, Zack Snyder's Justice League was very much worth the wait and then some. I honestly can't say how I would rank the Snyder DCEU trilogy, but the overall cohesion, that was sorely lacking with the 2017 release, is very much appreciated and will no doubt assist in the enjoyment of subsequent viewings. Or in one of those days where you sit down, kick back, and watch all three films back to back to back.
A blessing in many ways. Not just for the movement, or the film, but for the man (Zack Snyder) himself.
P.S. I want the sequels. Now.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 20 Mar 2021, 23:52
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sat, 20 Mar 2021, 20:46
Is a Schumacher cut of Forever even possible? Like are all the scenes from that original cut still around after 20 years?
In terms of arranging the original sequencing that wouldn't be a problem. I think BF is the most underrated Batman movie, and fully restored it's elevated further.
There's more footage that still hasn't been released. Off the top of my head there was a deleted scene where Bruce and Alfred buy The Box and open it in the Bat Cave. There's are some other scenes with Edward Nygma on Claw Island. Idk if that stuff is even around anymore.
Regarding the footage used in the Whedon version, I would cite the Kuleshov effect as an example of how editing has altered its emotional context for the Snyder cut. For those not familiar with the Kuleshov effect, it's a concept relating to montage theory outlined by Russian filmmaker Lev Kuleshov. Kuleshov presented a close-up shot of a man's face and edited it together with a shot of a bowl of soup, a child in a coffin and a woman reclining on a chair. Audiences perceived subtle changes in the man's face when he looked at each of these things. When he looked at the bowl, his expression conveyed hunger; when he looked at the child, his expression conveyed grief; when he looked at the woman, his expression conveyed desire. But in all three instances, the reaction shot was exactly the same. It was the editing that changed the context and made audiences think they were seeing a different emotion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um-ybncJ4eo
Here's the master of suspense giving his own explanation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96xx383lpiI
My favourite example of the Kuleshov effect is in Blade Runner. Specifically the shot of Deckard nodding as he looks at the origami unicorn.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W4NwLMp3/Blade-Runner.gif)
What's he reacting to here? Well in the original theatrical cut, the unicorn is Gaff's way of signalling to Deckard that he has visited his apartment but chosen not to kill Rachel. Gaff is basically giving them a head start and letting them go. Deckard's nod conveys gratitude and hope. However, in the later cuts of the film the meaning of this scene is completely changed by the addition of a single shot earlier in the movie: a shot of a unicorn that appears during Deckard's dream.
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/a87095d732378ff34999583a712070cb/tumblr_nj9kccd3JX1qah86mo3_r1_640.png)
Now the origami unicorn represents something different. It's Gaff signalling to Deckard that his dreams are artificial, thereby revealing that Deckard himself is a Replicant. The emotional context is much darker and Deckard is now nodding with resignation and despair as he realises the truth about himself. The footage of Deckard's reaction is the same in all versions of the film, but the addition of that one extra shot earlier in the movie completely recontextualises it.
With Snyder's Justice League, there's no such massive alteration to the plot. The basic story is the same, as we always knew it would be. But the tone and emotional context of many scenes is altered to a significant degree. One example would be Cyborg's emotional state during the final act. In Whedon's cut Cyborg is fighting to stop the bad guy because he wants to save the world. Ok. That's fine, but it isn't terribly compelling on an emotional level. In Snyder's cut, Victor has just watched his father die. He's carrying around all that raw grief, as well as the guilt he feels for failing to square things with his dad before it was too late. This adds a whole new layer of pathos to his struggle. He's still fighting to save the world, but now he's also fighting to serve the cause for which his father sacrificed himself. The footage of him fighting Parademons might be the same as in the Whedon cut, but the context surrounding it is enhanced. As a viewer, that makes me care more about his actions.
Imagine the cathedral showdown from Batman '89, only the film's been edited to remove Bruce's relationship with Vicki or any references to the Joker killing Batman's parents. Now Batman's merely pursuing the Joker because he wants to stop the bad guy, not because he's trying to avenge his parents or save the woman he loves. Would the viewer still care as much about the final battle? A better example of how editing can recontextualise existing footage can be found in the fan edits of Batman Forever. The flashbacks don't mean much in the theatrical cut, but restore the close-up shot of the final entry in Thomas Wayne's journal and suddenly it all makes sense. Now you've got this extra layer of repressed guilt that Bruce has been struggling with throughout the film. It adds some much needed depth to his character arc. The new footage in JL has a similar effect. It gives us extra information about the characters and fleshes out their back stories, but it also changes the existing footage by modifying its context.
Another example would be the scene where Cyborg's automatic defences activate in Superman's presence. I always thought this felt very contrived in the theatrical cut, but in Snyder's version it connects with an earlier conversation in which it's stated that the Mother Boxes are wary of Superman and only became active after they sensed that he was dead. Since Cyborg's technology is derived from the Mother Boxes, this explains why his automatic defences would initially misidentify Clark as a threat. Cyborg's defence system reacts when it realises it's being scanned by a Kryptonian; the same Kryptonian the Mother Boxes were laying dormant to avoid. I don't recollect this connection between Superman and the Mother Boxes being explained in Whedon's cut. Perhaps it was and I just forgot. But if it wasn't, then this is another example of how the additional footage has improved material that was present in both versions of the film. In the Snyder cut we are given a reason for why Cyborg's automatic defence system reacts violently to Superman. I don't remember this explanation being present in the Whedon cut. And it's a pretty big omission, considering that entire set piece predicates on Cyborg's defences initiating the battle.
There clearly is a wealth of new footage in the Snyder cut (4 hrs vs. 2 hrs), but even the old footage is not exactly the same. Not really. Editing changes it. And that's to say nothing of the alterations to the cinematography and art direction. I'm looking forward to seeing some more in-depth analyses of the differences between the two cuts in the future. I expect we'll be getting some interesting video essays on the subject.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 21 Mar 2021, 19:18
I'm looking forward to seeing some more in-depth analyses of the differences between the two cuts in the future. I expect we'll be getting some interesting video essays on the subject.
I'm there with you. There are some text pieces illustrating some of the more obvious differences between the two versions but analysis of the kind you describe is in short supply so far.
Then again, it's still early days.
Most surprising to me is how Rebecca Johnson hasn't posted her thoughts about ZSJL so far. But, hey, early days.
Here YouTube channel is https://www.youtube.com/user/duckmilkprod/videos so there's one resource to keep an eye on right there. You're hard-pressed to find a bigger Snyder fan than her. Combine that with her background in media production and she's a pretty good choice for video essays and whatnot.
How the hell do people who have been waiting for the Snyder cut like crazy not watch it all at once? I cannot fathom stopping halfway and resuming later. I'd go insane knowing it's all there and I'm saying no to it, even briefly. Four hours is nothing. I would have happily sat there for another four. And no doubt some of these people have no issue binge watching Netflix all day.
Anyway - I'll jot down other things I noticed and liked at some point. I think we've all seen the movie by now. So when it's time to open up to spoilers, I'll be ready.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 22 Mar 2021, 01:12
How the hell do people who have been waiting for the Snyder cut like crazy not watch it all at once? I cannot fathom stopping halfway and resuming later. I'd go insane knowing it's all there and I'm saying no to it, even briefly. Four hours is nothing. I would have happily sat there for another four. And no doubt some of these people have no issue binge watching Netflix all day.
Anyway - I'll jot down other things I noticed and liked at some point. I think we've all seen the movie by now. So when it's time to open up to spoilers, I'll be ready.
In my case, it was a matter of practical necessity. I started watching Wednesday night, resumed Thursday, got interrupted by certain responsibilities and then finished the last ten minutes a bit later on Thursday. So, I basically knocked it all out in a bit less than 24 hours.
I've seen a tweet where the writer presents themselves as coming from a place of superior intelligence, but they lack that completely as context is removed. This tweet says Batman fans are dying on three strange hills, that it's not wrong for him to swear, use guns or kill.
The Knightmare timeline is literal anything goes hell on Earth. Enemies and friends put aside their differences to fight a common foe, but tension is going to remain and result in harsh talking. Superheroes have been killed, few remain, and low level grit in the form of Deathstroke, Joker and Batman will mostly win the day. In that context, if you're not using guns, you're inviting death.
Batman didn't kill anybody in ZSJL. We know why he did in BvS. It's stressed to the ninth degree that he has changed. He's operating from faith and that's even reflected in the music.
But apart from that context: imagine presenting these three subjects as no go zones when two of them are so common in franchise media. Keaton used guns and killed. Bale used guns and people died from their use. It's just not okay when Snyder does it. To act as if these things are 'outliers' is the real lie.
#RestoreTheSynderverse is trending on Twitter. Again.
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23restorethesynderverse&src=trend_click&vertical=trends
This is gossip. Treat it that way. But this report alleges that ZSJL is grand slam.
https://geekositymag.com/hbo-max-and-netflix-offering-zack-snyder-exclusivity-deals
Now, the thinking goes that movie studios are generally reluctant to share viewership stats, even if they're amazing. For that reason, the assumption everyone seems to be making is that we'll never see the official numbers for ZSJL.
Thing is tho, I don't know if that applies here. As I've said, AT&T isn't rly part of Hollywood. And corporations flex all the time. It's part of building an image of success. McDonald's has their victory lap on all their signs. "Over 1 Billion Served!" It's good branding.
So, don't discount the possibility that ZSJL numbers might find their way to the public somehow if those numbers are awesome.
Well, what a way to piss off the fans and general audiences who loved ZSJL, WarnerMedia CEO Ann Sarnoff has said Snyder's "trilogy" is complete. In addition to saying there will be no Ayer cut of Suicide Squad, she is indirectly calling Ray Fisher a liar while backing up Walter Hamada.
https://variety.com/2021/film/news/zack-snyder-justice-league-suicide-squad-ray-fisher-warnermedia-1234935580/
Pathetic. Hopefully AT&T steps in and fixes this mess.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 22 Mar 2021, 19:33
Well, what a way to piss off the fans and general audiences who loved ZSJL, WarnerMedia CEO Ann Sarnoff has said Snyder's "trilogy" is complete. In addition to saying there will be no Ayer cut of Suicide Squad, she is indirectly calling Ray Fisher a liar while backing up Walter Hamada.
https://variety.com/2021/film/news/zack-snyder-justice-league-suicide-squad-ray-fisher-warnermedia-1234935580/
Pathetic. Hopefully AT&T steps in and fixes this mess.
HBO Max is a WarnerMedia brand, of which Sarnoff is the CEO. So, in theory, her word is final. Or it would be. But as a matter of practicality, the chain of command ultimately ends in one place: John Stankey, the (unfortunately named) CEO of AT&T.
Idk this to be true. But I'm thinking that Stankey might not want to waltz into an AT&T board meeting and tell the members that he stood down on making a sequel to the only hit HBO Max has ever had because he wanted to protect his subordinate's ego. After spending 85 g*dd*mn billion dollars to buy Time Warner and no significant ROI so far, that might be the opposite of what the AT&T board wants to hear at the moment.
Ain't no such thing as a sure thing. I'm just saying that Sarnoff can blab about whatever she wants in a softball Variety interview... but the REAL decision is likely to be made above her level.
Normally, I can post bs like this and we'll never know if I'm right. But in this case, Sarnoff went and painted herself into a corner. She's saying "no" in that Variety interview. So, if some kind of continuation of the Snyderverse happens anyway, we'll know someone pulled rank on her. So, I'll be proven very very right or else very very wrong.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 22 Mar 2021, 21:35
HBO Max is a WarnerMedia brand, of which Sarnoff is the CEO. So, in theory, her word is final. Or it would be. But as a matter of practicality, the chain of command ultimately ends in one place: John Stankey, the (unfortunately named) CEO of AT&T.
All this means naught if AT&T don't act. Grace Randolph has now tweeted "let's see what HBO Max decides" and "we should know if that's happening in the next month or so." That's why I said focus on a Snyderverse continuation right now. I want the Ayer cut, but that's a true dead end that can be revisited at any time.
From The Cultured Nerd's Instagram account.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExHUPdEXMAY1kQX?format=jpg&name=large)
Sarnoff's boss is Jason Kilar, who has been very supportive of ZSJL. Maybe let's wait and see what happens next.
Not sure if this is reliable info, but it appears ZSJL narrowly outperformed the debut episode of The Falcon and The Winter Soldier in terms of views, and the new MCU show was Disney+'s biggest debut to date.
https://heroichollywood.com/justice-league-falcon-winter-soldier-views/
Once again, don't take the following info for granted, but Mikey Sutton of Geekosity claims he's very confident any plans for the Snyderverse to continue will be on HBO Max, despite Variety's hit piece.
https://geekositymag.com/zack-snyders-snyderverse-will-live-on-in-hbo-max/
I have a browser folder that I use as a dumping ground for interesting stuff. I just bookmark it, come back to it later, read/watch it and delete it.
Ages ago, I bookmarked https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/04/att-dismantles-time-warner-to-battle-netflix-the-inside-story.html and finally came back to it today. There's some pretty telling commentary going on there. I've maintained that AT&T generally (and the CEO John Stankey) will ultimately make the final call on the Snyderverse's future. Specifically, whether or not it even has a future.
Basically, nothing in this article leads me to believe that AT&T sees an immediate reason to stand down on the Snyderverse. In light of ZSJL's success, there are compelling business reasons to bring Snyder back for more.
It's a bit of a dry read (as might be expected from CNBC). But when you drill down to the bottom of it, what you find is facts that cast a different light on all this drama than what Ann Sarnoff is likely to mention in some fluffy Variety interview.
In terms of HBO Max, people have suggested continuing the Snyderverse there as if that's some type of comedown. On the contrary, reading between the lines in that article suggests that more Snyderverse on HBO Max is probably the ideal scenario, at least if Stankey has his way.
Bottom line, there are good reasons to think AT&T would want to bring Snyder back.
I feel that before Snyder came back there'd have to be some miniseries of some kind to tie up ZSJL's loose ends. If there's just one of these, Batfleck is the obvious contender given the scene on board the yacht. It would be the right time to do it, because after ZSJL3 he really would be done with the role forever. Aquaman's solo movie could be considered true canon if making these productions is like drawing blood from a stone.
I hesitantly post this link because I'm sceptical of their sources.
https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/ben-affleck-reportedly-batman-movies-flash/
Do AT&T have the guts to pull the trigger?
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 23 Mar 2021, 22:34
I feel that before Snyder came back there'd have to be some miniseries of some kind to tie up ZSJL's loose ends. If there's just one of these, Batfleck is the obvious contender given the scene on board the yacht. It would be the right time to do it, because after ZSJL3 he really would be done with the role forever. Aquaman's solo movie could be considered true canon if making these productions is like drawing blood from a stone.
I hesitantly post this link because I'm sceptical of their sources.
https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/ben-affleck-reportedly-batman-movies-flash/
Do AT&T have the guts to pull the trigger?
You're skeptical of their sources? I think it makes more sense to be skeptical of WGTC point blank.
Still... even a broken clock is right twice per day, yes? We can say what we want about WGTC (and their sources) but I think there's logic behind the idea of Affleck sticking around.
Even before ZSJL, his Batman was the subject of a pretty serious reappraisal. People were starting to give him another look anyway. I think ZSJL is only throwing fuel on that fire.
Now, back in 2018, it made sense for Affleck to call it a day. But I don't think it makes sense anymore. It's franchise money, he's in great shape and the demand for him to reprise the role is building. There's some logic in sticking around after all.
As for AT&T, I have little doubt they would love to be attached to a star of Affleck's caliber. It's zero-risk for them, plus he has an existing fan following.
Maybe I'm wrong. But I think Batman is Affleck's to lose. Because everyone else wouldn't think twice about having him back.
I'm skeptical of anything said about anything. I go by gut feel, and it's been more right than wrong in my lifetime.
Even if the Snyderverse didn't continue I'd settle for one Batfleck miniseries which featured Grayson's death, Wayne Manor being burned and a modern day plotline involving Deathstroke coming after both Bruce Wayne and Batman. BvS is the centre of everything with this incarnation. Expanding upon what we've already seen would be a free hit. Easter eggs become something much more as the world is then fully fleshed out.
I think a lot also hinges on what script is provided for Affleck in Flashpoint. If WB kills him off, it makes any HBO Max continuations more difficult to explain. The big screen is their domain, and it could be their last attempt at closing this loop.
'Zack Snyder's Justice League': Darkseid Gets Demolished by Yoked David Thewlis in Seconds and That Kind of Ruins the Movie
https://collider.com/zack-snyders-justice-league-darkseid-ares-scene-problems
Anybody who goes to a hack website like Collider hoping for insightful commentary deserves whatever they get. Not exactly known for subtlety, the Collider article doesn't bury the lead in terms of what the headline promises.
And yet, this is probably the one aspect of Whedon's movie that I think works better than Snyder's Blasphemy, I know. But hear me out.
In Josstice League, Steppenwolf dukes it out with the united warriors of Earth and pretty much gets the tar beaten out of him. It makes sense for him to come back to Earth thousands of years later when mankind is more scattered, divided and weak than they were before. He has a better chance of success the second time around. It adds up.
But in ZSJL, obviously it's Darkseid doing the fighting. And right there, I've got problems with it. Darkseid is a "god" in the DC universe sense of the word. It should be beneath his dignity to sully his hands in battle against the peasants and commoners. Darkseid is a tyrant and overlord. He brainwashes, coerces, forms conspiracies, blackmails, etc. But he RARELY dukes it out with somebody. Like, maybe once every few hundred centuries, he might trade shots with somebody because he has to. Otherwise, he's got elite warriors whose entire reason for being is fighting his battles for him. If you want to prove to me that you don't understand what Darkseid is all about, you put him in a physical fight with someone. That tells me everything I need to know.
Now, I don't apply that to Snyder. He had reasons for sending Darkseid to Earth thousands of years ago just to get his ass kicked. I get that. But there's no way to avoid making Darkseid look weak than by having him get beat around like that. The fact that another "god" is who messed his day up isn't much of a salve on that problem.
That hack's Millennial-chic hyperbole aside, he's still touching on a fair point there. Snyder rly should've used some other character in place of Darkseid for the initial invasion. There are plenty to choose from. Kalibak, Steppenwolf, Kanto, etc. But sending Darkseid himself, eh, I think that was just a bad idea.
I like the idea Darkseid originally sent Steppenwolf to conquer Earth with instructions to leave something witchy. But he fails, and that's largely why he falls out of favor. He's shamed by defeat and exiled for centuries. But when the Mother Boxes sing out, he's offered one last chance at redemption. And of course he fails again.
But honestly, it doesn't bother me that much or reduce the overall experience. It seems to be about making personal stakes for the villain, and deliberately giving a sense of vulnerability in contrast to the heroes. Darkseid's shoulder is struck with an axe. Superman's shoulder is struck with an axe. We have two different outcomes from those blows, suggesting the heroes have not just a chance but an advantage. But through pure anger and desperation the next time would be different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h6VobYuio4
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 25 Mar 2021, 18:42
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h6VobYuio4
thecolorsblend- "I'll never watch Shapiro."
Silver Nemesis- "Lol"
Wouldn't have expected thoughtful commentary from him, much less a seal of approval on ZSJL. But here we are. Interesting to know that the whole "MCU is too comedic" thing isn't just something we're saying here.
I kinda get the argument that Darkseid being defeated, and not just stated, but actually seen being defeated takes away from his overall presentation as a damn near indomitable New God. However, on the flip side, I've seen it stated and written, to where it's being made a point of, that this battle featured Uxas, and not the fully formed, ready for prime time Darkseid, that we all know. In that, I believe Snyder created an out and thus lessens the blow of Darkseid being defeated. Like if it took all of THAT to defeat a younger, and not quite fully realized Uxas. Just wait till the prime Darkseid returns. You're going to have some problems.
Under that scenario, I can see Darkseid's return to earth to be even more foreboding in the grand scheme of things. Plus, not gonna lie, as a Wonder Woman guy, I kinda like the symbolism of Old God Ares delivering the final blow to Uxas, and the last Old God in Snyder's DCEU, Wonder Woman, delivering the final blow to Steppenwolf. Thus making him a clear example to Darkseid himself.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 25 Mar 2021, 20:00
Wouldn't have expected thoughtful commentary from him, much less a seal of approval on ZSJL. But here we are. Interesting to know that the whole "MCU is too comedic" thing isn't just something we're saying here.
He's actually a pretty big DC fan, and likes Snyder's stuff in the DCEU.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 25 Mar 2021, 20:54
Plus, not gonna lie, as a Wonder Woman guy, I kinda like the symbolism of Old God Ares delivering the final blow to Uxas, and the last Old God in Snyder's DCEU, Wonder Woman, delivering the final blow to Steppenwolf. Thus making him a clear example to Darkseid himself.
I still haven't seen WW84, but ZSJL was nonetheless a palette cleanser.
Junkie kept the Zimmer WW theme, which I'm thankful for, but he did overdo the wailing.
I quite like Junkie's new Batman theme, but the BvS version is better. I accept the basis for him doing so, and a new theme is much preferable to rehashing a theme that belongs to another universe.
But I will never accept the exact same BvS theme couldn't have been retained, but lightened up. Elliot Goldenthal managed to use his Schumacher theme in a variety of different moods. There's no reason why Junkie couldn't have done the same.
Junkie used part of Flight, but Zimmer's rendition packs more punch in comparison. A good enough score but MoS/BvS are better.
Not addressing Clark's return to civilian life was a gaping hole in the plot, given he was reported as dead and had an open casket funeral. I'm surprised that wasn't addressed, unless this was to be addressed in follow up films. Snyder said the return of Superman is as important as his death, and if you do something you need to have a resolution in mind. I'd like someone to ask him about Clark.
Opinion: Zack Snyder's superhero universe is unsettling — but says a lot about our reality
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/03/24/zack-snyder-superhero-movies-mcu
Look, I don't like the Washington (Com)post any more than the next guy. But a fair point is a fair point.
The writer basically makes the argument that Snyder's DC films are far grittier and more realistic than the MCU. Which is a weird observation because it's (A) observably true and (B) the complete opposite of both Marvel and DC's long-established brands as comic book publishers.
Notwithstanding, it is true that day-to-day life in the MCU isn't much different after Endgame as it was before the first Iron Man. Things are just chugging along more or less normally. This is in spite of an alien invasion, the revelation that aliens and mythic gods exist irl and half of the world's population going missing for five years.
Meanwhile, day-to-day life in the DCEU basically ground to a halt upon one alien's existence being revealed to the world. As a microcosm arguably of all mankind, that one revelation basically destroyed Bruce Wayne's life and drove him off the deep end for about a year and a half. Big things don't just get swept under the rug in the Snyderverse.
For that reason alone, the Snyderverse must be brought back.
I find Snyder's sensibilities, blatantly, gravitate towards comic book storytelling that isn't comparable to a comedic, family friendly, formulaic, and sanitized product. Now would Snyder enjoy a random comic that told a light hearted story? Probably so. Sure. However, storytelling that takes more a more adult approach to the material, like that of Alan Moore and Frank Miller, is very much appears to be what Snyder, likely, was influenced by the most, as a man, and as a filmmaker. It's painfully obvious that his films, based on material that originated in the medium, exemplify this influence to a great degree. We already know the relevance Snyder has for Frank Miller with 300 and The Dark Knight Returns. Ditto with Alan Moore with Watchmen, and speaking of Moore, I personally took MOS' Metropolis fight between Superman and Zod to be possibly influenced by Moore's Miracleman. Just what would happen if two super powered beings did battle within a heavily populated area? People would die, and the numbers would be in the thousands. This wasn't a probable scenario that Moore shied away from, and likewise, neither did Snyder with MOS. Sure, Snyder could have absolutely chosen to go for more of a Avengers1 route, with everything being, basically, hunky-dory following a bona fide alien invasion, but, once again, that's definitely not where Snyder's sensibilities lie, nor would it be storytelling that would greatly interest Snyder as a director and storyteller either.
This view, I completely understand. After being bombarded with a more sanitized, and formulaic Disney style of storytelling for over ten years now, a break, every now and then, is always a welcome sight. Heck, I would prefer a break much more frequently, but it is what it is. Especially considering Warners, and one definitely should not expect too much from them.
Snyder has provided us with great breaks from that style of storytelling. I agree, and hope we see more. This whole thing has been fascinating. Just utterly fascinating.
I've watched ZSJL again in one sitting, and there's no doubt in my mind this is a modern classic.
DC are unbeatable when they embrace the darker elements of their universe, which Joker, BvS and now ZSJL demonstrate. Any franchise would kill to have those types of movies in their catalogue, and I'm hoping The Batman can tap into that same energy. There's deeper cultural significance in these approaches.
And another thing: I appreciate the establishing shot of the Wayne Aerospace building with the Gotham skyline in the background. It removes all doubt those sequences are taking place in a seperate location and not the batcave, as the theatrical cut made us believe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ92EsOmJHU
Midnight's Edge is commenting on this whole AT&T vs. WB/WarnerMedia drama. It's no secret that WB is opposed to anything Snyder. But people are starting to notice.
(https://preview.redd.it/8id6krrtodp61.gif?format=mp4&s=e4b49e726ce3afa6ec916c8a6f9c2b2c64b2aeef)
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 27 Mar 2021, 00:07
(https://preview.redd.it/8id6krrtodp61.gif?format=mp4&s=e4b49e726ce3afa6ec916c8a6f9c2b2c64b2aeef)
Wow, that means something coming from him.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 25 Mar 2021, 20:54
I've seen it stated and written, to where it's being made a point of, that this battle featured Uxas, and not the fully formed, ready for prime time Darkseid, that we all know. In that, I believe Snyder created an out and thus lessens the blow of Darkseid being defeated. Like if it took all of THAT to defeat a younger, and not quite fully realized Uxas. Just wait till the prime Darkseid returns. You're going to have some problems.
Under that scenario, I can see Darkseid's return to earth to be even more foreboding in the grand scheme of things. Plus, not gonna lie, as a Wonder Woman guy, I kinda like the symbolism of Old God Ares delivering the final blow to Uxas, and the last Old God in Snyder's DCEU, Wonder Woman, delivering the final blow to Steppenwolf. Thus making him a clear example to Darkseid himself.
Exactly right. Snyder implied a few years ago on Vero that Uxas didn't become the all powerful Darkseid yet. If he were, he would've used his Omega Beams to turn every warrior to ash and bones, as he did to Vulko in Atlantis during Cyborg's vision of Darkseid's future attack. When Darkseid tries to conquer Earth again, he will be far deadlier than the first time around. Evidently, he succeeded in doing so.
Yesterday, the #RestoreTheSnyderVerse hashtag reached 1.5 million tweets on Twitter, beating Avengers Endgame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgeoFpyxOeg
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 23 Mar 2021, 11:11
Not sure if this is reliable info, but it appears ZSJL narrowly outperformed the debut episode of The Falcon and The Winter Soldier in terms of views, and the new MCU show was Disney+'s biggest debut to date.
https://heroichollywood.com/justice-league-falcon-winter-soldier-views/
I've heard this info is somewhat correct, although there is some conflicting feedback if it's only for the first few days or the first five minutes, which sounds stupid. ZSJL was a couple of million views shorter of WW84, but we have to keep in mind that WW84 opened on Christmas Day, so it doesn't sound too bad. I've heard the film is a top seller on Google Play in countries like France and India, and it was the most-watched film in the history of the Canadian streaming service, Crave. So it seems the film is a resounding success, we just need to get the full results of how well it did.
The hype and desire for the rest of Zack Snyder's story arc and his universe has grown beyond what anyone here might've expected. The question is, will the trouble that seems to be happening behind-the-scenes at WarnerMedia get in the way of restoring the Snyderverse? If not, will we see a consumer backlash?
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 27 Mar 2021, 02:14
I've heard this info is somewhat correct, although there is some conflicting feedback if it's only for the first few days or the first five minutes, which sounds stupid. ZSJL was a couple of million views shorter of WW84, but we have to keep in mind that WW84 opened on Christmas Day, so it doesn't sound too bad. I've heard the film is a top seller on Google Play in countries like France and India, and it was the most-watched film in the history of the Canadian streaming service, Crave. So it seems the film is a resounding success, we just need to get the full results of how well it did.
The hype and desire for the rest of Zack Snyder's story arc and his universe has grown beyond what anyone here might've expected. The question is, will the trouble that seems to be happening behind-the-scenes at WarnerMedia get in the way of restoring the Snyderverse? If not, will we see a consumer backlash?
This new age of tracking view counts and what not from streaming services is interesting. If the name of the game is to get interest/view counts from potential subscribers/paid subscribers for _____ streaming service, then WW84 and ZSJL did their job. The clear difference between the two is that one enjoyed a much more positive reception than the other. So it's easy to imagine ZSJL overtaking WW84 shortly following the opening day release. I'm also interested in just what kind of
increase in subscriber count did HBO Max experience when the release of ZSJL was imminent.
I don't know what you can say about Warner Bros. It's kinda amazing how they consistently continue to publicly show their contempt, and undermining, towards both Snyder and the fans. You have the resounding financial and critical MCU like success you've always craved with the Snyder cut, and they're like, "Nah, we're good." Hell, they couldn't even wait a week before making a point in publicly rebuking all the mass interest gained by stating that, in their view, ZSJL is final and leads to no where.
Absolutely amazing.
Yeah, AT&T ... it's past time to get the Warners division in order. The embarrassing ineptness coming from that subsidiary has long passed it's due date. Don't even get me started on that human sack of **** that's writing Jar Jar's Superman, after what I read about his public comments of deceased 9/11 police and firefighters.
Again, pretty damn amazing.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 27 Mar 2021, 03:20
I don't know what you can say about Warner Bros. It's kinda amazing how they consistently continue to publicly show their contempt, and undermining, towards both Snyder and the fans. You have the resounding financial and critical MCU like success you've always craved with the Snyder cut, and they're like, "Nah, we're good." Hell, they couldn't even wait a week before making a point in publicly rebuking all the mass interest gained by stating that, in their view, ZSJL is final and leads to no where.
Absolutely amazing.
Warner Butchers are truly pathetic. They've been trying to downplay the hype and attention over ZSJL with casting announcements for other DC films all week. If you ask me, there's no doubt in my mind they may have pushed forward that Suicide Squad reboot trailer in a desperate attempt to take away attention from the phenomenal #ReleaseTheSnyderVerse Twitter trend.
As for them publicly dismissing ZSJL as a "trilogy" by Ann Sarnoff in that Variety article last week, let me tell you something. Nearly two years ago, I decided to take part in a letter-writing campaign as advertised on the Snyder cut community's social media accounts (think of it similar to Reeve Superman fans petitioning for the Donner cut back in the day) to congratulate Sarnoff when she was appointed as the new CEO at WB, now shifted to WarnerMedia Studios due to a corporate restructure. In addition to kindly wishing her well in her new role, many fans - myself included - politely requested the release of the Snyder cut.
Nearly two years later, and she talks about alleged fan toxicity within the Snyder cut community and how fans allegedly "threatened" these executives. What an ungrateful piece of work, not to mention her pathetic attempts to defend the likes of Toby Emmerich and Walter Hamada from Ray Fisher's complaints.
To add further insult to injury, she states she "believes in Emmerich and Hamada's vision for the DC Universe". This goes to show a couple of things:
1) WB priding itself as a "director-driven studio" is a load of bullsh*t, as if we didn't get the idea already after what happened to Ayer and Snyder;
2) The multiverse they promoted at last year's DC FanDome is a lie.
What's the point of having a multiverse if you won't let Snyder introduce the John Stewart Green Lantern, let alone not allow him to continue his franchise on HBO Max? Emmerich was one of the key instigators for screwing up JL back in 2017 and lied about the circumstances surrounding those reshoots, and Hamada is his lackey. What the hell do any of these suits know about filmmaking, other than sabotage?
It really tells me a lot about Sarnoff as a person for defending those people.
Quote
Yeah, AT&T ... it's past time to get the Warners division in order. The embarrassing ineptness coming from that subsidiary has long passed it's due date. Don't even get me started on that human sack of **** that's writing Jar Jar's Superman, after what I read about his public comments of deceased 9/11 police and firefighters.
QFT. The sooner AT&T can clean house and get rid of these despicable egomaniacs and abusers, the better. I feel vindicated for badmouthing that studio over the years, particularly throughout 2019. What would make it worse than Snyderverse not continuing is Keaton not coming back, which judging by his recent interview, sounds likely. To think I thought last year things were looking upwards for DC on film. At the moment, it's looking like a beautiful lie.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 27 Mar 2021, 02:14
The hype and desire for the rest of Zack Snyder's story arc and his universe has grown beyond what anyone here might've expected.
Yes. When this whole thing started, all I rly wanted was for the majority of #RTSC stans to actually watch the movie. Considering the acid bath BVS was subjected to, it never crossed my mind that we'd see the outpouring of good will that we're witnessing now.
I again emphasize that WB/WM would have to be run by utter morons to not want to capitalize on the amazingly positive buzz ZSJL has generated. But I remind myself that it's not about the money for most of them. However...
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 27 Mar 2021, 02:14The question is, will the trouble that seems to be happening behind-the-scenes at WarnerMedia get in the way of restoring the Snyderverse? If not, will we see a consumer backlash?
... it sure as hell
is about the money for AT&T. They've already broken a lot of unwritten rules in Hollywood and stepped on a lot of influential people's toes to complete ZSJL... and they've been richly rewarded for doing it. Why would they change directions now when giving fans what they want has paid such dividends so far? We're beyond the core ZSJL audience now. Even normies are getting into it. In what bizarro world does it make sense for AT&T to not want more?
There are some complicating factors going on here tho. One is the possible difficulty in getting the band back together. It stands to reason that Gadot and Momoa are safely under contract. No worries there, I'd imagine. Probably Miller too.
But that still leaves fan favorites like Cavill, Affleck and, now, Fisher. Fisher may be the most complicated of all. A giant proportion of ZSJL's success comes back to him. Would the movie have been as well received as it is if a different actor had been cast in Fisher's place? Maybe. But maybe not. He's burned a lot of bridges with WB/WM. But I can't imagine Snyder wanting to move forward with anyone else. Maybe he would. But I have trouble picturing it.
As for the other two, Affleck has been in demand for over twenty years now and Cavill's career has a new lease on life thanks to The Witcher. Getting both of them back isn't impossible. But that doesn't mean it'll be easy either.
I say all of that to say AT&T is still calling the shots here. WB/WM personnel can say what they want but it's not rly their decision, ultimately. But getting everyone back is a big challenge even for AT&T. Marvel not that the talk we're hearing about the Snyderverse's future rn comes mostly from people with a vested interest in seeing it dead, buried and forgotten. If efforts are being made to resurrect the Snyderverse on HBO Max (and I have to believe that they are), I wouldn't be surprised if AT&T executives are personally involved in the efforts to make this happen.
Remember, fam, it ain't time to panic until Kilar or Stankey start referring to the Snyderverse in the past-tense.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 21 Mar 2021, 01:48
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 21 Mar 2021, 01:26
Snyder has revealed he filmed the new epilogue scenes against WB's wishes but was forced to make one particular compromise. Spoilers below.
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2564640/zack-snyder-says-the-studio-had-rules-about-what-he-couldnt-put-in-his-snyder-cut-of-justice-league
This business of ZSJL as an interesting experiment and Josstice League as the canonical version of the story doesn't sit right with me. I suspect most fans are coming from the same place. Somehow, against all odds, even the critics seem to pretty much be on the same page.
In fact, it looks to me like the only people who want the Whedon cut to be canon all work for WB.
And yet, WB doesn't have the final say on this. AT&T ultimately does. If ZSJL truly is the success that it appears to be then maintain the Whedon cut as canon makes literally no sense whatsoever. And AT&T didn't become AT&f**kingT by making decisions that don't make sense.
I'm not saying that automatically leads to ZSJL2. But I AM saying that ZSJL is very likely to replace Josstice League as canon. That decision costs AT&T literally nothing at this point. But it satisfies a whole bunch of people. Free good will isn't easy to come by in that industry.
AT&T will have to do a better job at calling the shots, because Snyder had revealed he considered quitting on ZSJL when the asshole studio banned him from using Green Lantern.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiewire.com/2021/03/zack-snyder-quit-snyder-cut-green-lantern-1234625613/amp/
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 21 Mar 2021, 01:48
But I AM saying that ZSJL is very likely to replace Josstice League as canon.
I doubt that. I think WB control the big screen agenda, regardless of what the company power structure may be. From WB's point of view, Flashpoint is about clearing the deck. As I've said a couple of times, a lot hinges on what script is provided for Affleck in Flashpoint.
I'm inclined to believe the studio will close the loop with a sense of finality. That's one Batman gone for them. It would then be a question if AT&T have the guts to do a separate Snyder timeline on HBO Max, ignoring what happened on the big screen. If they do, it's likely we'll have to ignore Affleck's Flashpoint appearance to maintain Snyderverse purity.
If he appears, Keaton probably wears the suit for the one movie. With subsequent appearances as Bruce Wayne, explaining why Keaton would commit to the franchise long term. That gives the DCEU a Batman, albeit in limited form, allowing Pattinson to have the full blown limelight with the costume, cars, etc.
To both of you I say maybe I'm wrong.
But rn, nobody can afford to abandon a hit movie with clear room for sequels and obvious demand for sequels. I repeat that at this moment, we're only hearing quotes and soundbytes from people who won't make the final decision.
If the word is still that ZSJL2 is still a no-go by the time May 1st rolls around, fine. I'm willing to admit my error. But somehow, I just can't convince myself that AT&T is willing to leave HBO Max's entire reason for being on the table. Weirder things have happened, sure. But I'll be astounded if that's what happens here. And I'll lose a lot of respect for AT&T's (heretofore amazing) collective business acumen.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 03:53
And I'll lose a lot of respect for AT&T's (heretofore amazing) collective business acumen.
Indeed. If you have power, use it. If anything happens I see it being small screen only. Which I'd accept with open arms,
especially a Batfleck miniseries. I don't think WB's big screen plans are going to be impacted in any serious way.
Has anybody watched the Justice is Gray edition yet? ZSJL looks so immaculate in black and white. Any CGI imperfections that may stick out is very unnoticeable in this version. That's how well it blends.
It's nice to watch all the scenes that Snyder shared on Vero over the last couple of years come to life, using the exact same black and white colours as we saw in photos. A great little gift for those who followed the Snyder cut saga very closely.
During the week, Joe Manganiello tweeted this photo of Knightmare Deathstroke, along with the hashtags #RestoreTheSnyderVerse and #Deathstroke.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExxslznVEAMkVUD?format=jpg&name=900x900)
https://twitter.com/JoeManganiello/status/1377094986102018051
This makes him the fourth ZSJL actor to show support for the franchise, along with Ray Fisher, Ray Porter and C. Amanda Maud (the actress who played the struggling working-class mother who Cyborg helped).
You can tell Manganiello really wants to get a proper chance to play Deathstroke badly. A few months ago, a new Twitter account was created to petition for the character to get his own HBO Max show, much to his approval.
(https://i.imgur.com/HIdYnpe.jpg)
Meanwhile, other companies that supported the hashtag were Subway - which had tweeted #ReleaseTheSnyderCut several times back in late 2019 - and Weta Workshop, who are making of ZSJL characters.
https://twitter.com/SUBWAY/status/1377317344079454214
https://twitter.com/WetaWorkshop/status/1377349987747692550
With such demand, how can any studio say no?
Finally, Harry Lennix revealed that Martian Manhunter and John Stewart were originally in the epilogue before Snyder was forced to compromise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLOVWYWrPbg
Snyder has shared a deleted alternate moment from the Knightmare Epilogue scene, with Joker saying "We live in a society where honour is a distant memory".
https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1378007017202229249?s=20
I read somewhere that Leto ad-libbed that line, but I wish it was kept in the final cut. This might mean that Joker killed both Robin and Harley Quinn. Brutal.
Concept artist Jojo Aguilar has shared this artwork of the John Stewart Green Lantern, along with other images of Granny Goodness, Martian Manhunter and Joker.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex72x1WVIAMOW4g?format=jpg)
https://twitter.com/jojoaguilar33/status/1377813105728614400
I want to know who played GL. Snyder confirmed he shot the footage in his own driveway, together with the MM scene we saw in the final cut.
^It looks we may have discovered who played John Stewart. A Twitter user guessed the actor was Wayne T. Carr, judging by his likeness in the concept art, and sharing an undated picture with Ray Fisher.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex8BB6KXAAAzynU?format=jpg&name=small)
https://twitter.com/uberkryptonian/status/1377820987941658624
It seems this is true, as the actor signed up on Twitter yesterday, and tweeted the hashtag #RestoreTheSnyderVerse together with the money shot of the League charging towards Steppenwolf's base.
https://twitter.com/WayneTCarr/status/1379290079877681154
Judging by Rayseid's endorsement, this is all but confirms Carr really was John Stewart before Warner Butchers forced Zack to remove his part from ZSJL.
Quote from: Ray Porter
Respect to this good man.
https://twitter.com/Ray__Porter/status/1379326815827681281
We really need to see that deleted scene now.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 24 Mar 2021, 00:46
Even if the Snyderverse didn't continue I'd settle for one Batfleck miniseries which featured Grayson's death, Wayne Manor being burned and a modern day plotline involving Deathstroke coming after both Bruce Wayne and Batman.
When one absorbs the spirit of ZSJL they see just how much of an emotional freight train Affleck's script is. In ZSJL, Batfleck is operating purely from faith and he's optimistic after forming the League. The angst of BvS seems like a thing of the past. But it isn't: things get a lot more darker. Which begs the question of how Batman reacts to that. I suspect he tapped into the darkness but managed to restrain himself against all odds, unlike his response to Superman. That would have been fascinating to see, and would've been a lesson to never let your guard down. When you start to feel safe, it's time to worry.
Interesting insights into how ZSJL performed in the first weekend.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ey2agpmW8AIyVG2?format=jpg&name=small)
https://www.whipmedia.com/press_items/justice-league-has-higher-audience-demand-than-wonder-woman-1984-3-days-post-release/
How convenient HBO Max posted this "trilogy" trailer on the day when the new trailer for Snyder's latest film Army of the Dead debuted.
https://youtu.be/4deUh6rNC7g
Last time I checked, trilogies don't end in cliffhangers.
I'm so sick of how corrupt and petty the entire structure at Warner is. ZSJL will be the last WB related content I'll ever support.
From one sabotage to another with the Josstice League reshoots, the DC FanDome trailer taken down due to an inexplicable copyright error, leaking trailers, leaking the film in place of Tom & Jerry a week before it came out. Enough is enough. Any DCEU who wants the rest of the arc but is still planning to support WB's other movies have no right to complain. Studios that don't respect fans or even actors and directors don't deserve your money.
If AT&T wonders why their content suddenly underperforms, they can only blame themselves for not getting rid of toxic elements within their subsidiary.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 13 Apr 2021, 11:29
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 24 Mar 2021, 00:46
Even if the Snyderverse didn't continue I'd settle for one Batfleck miniseries which featured Grayson's death, Wayne Manor being burned and a modern day plotline involving Deathstroke coming after both Bruce Wayne and Batman.
When one absorbs the spirit of ZSJL they see just how much of an emotional freight train Affleck's script is. In ZSJL, Batfleck is operating purely from faith and he's optimistic after forming the League. The angst of BvS seems like a thing of the past. But it isn't: things get a lot more darker. Which begs the question of how Batman reacts to that. I suspect he tapped into the darkness but managed to restrain himself against all odds, unlike his response to Superman. That would have been fascinating to see, and would've been a lesson to never let your guard down. When you start to feel safe, it's time to worry.
Further to this I've since read Joker War.
There are notable similarities to Affleck's script and the overall Snyderverse.
1. Joker's plan is to make Gotham hate Batman and ruin Bruce Wayne's reputation
2. Alfred is dead and serves as a spiritual mentor (Deathstroke would kill Batfleck allies)
3. Harley wants Batman to kill the Joker (ZSJL epilogue)
4. Calls in the Bat Family for help (Batgirl would assist in Affleck's script)
Joker War is perhaps not a classic modern classic but the makings of a strong story are there. I'm convinced these plot points would make a focused and high stakes movie. It's now very clear the original Justice League trajectory is dead because they're calling MoS/BvS/ZSJL a trilogy even though it's common knowledge the story continues
because Zack outlined the plot beats. I'll always appreciate HBO Max for getting the Snyder cut out there. But if the Deathstroke movie isn't made after such high demand they really were a toothless tiger in the aftermath.
I'm not sure how reliable this info is, but someone who works in data analytics claimed to have his team gather the figures of various streaming figures worldwide, minus Google Play.
Quote
I borrowed my team for a few hours this morning to track the streaming no.s of
@snydercut
Using different data metrics, different analytical platforms & tools combined with our system - this is what we found.
Biggest difference is the HBO Max USA numbers.
#RestoreTheSnyderVerse
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ey8PgM8WYAYvUlh?format=jpg&name=large)
Biggest difference is the HBO Max USA numbers. #RestoreTheSnyderVerse
These are ONLY for the opening weekend - 18 to 22 March.
Total streams/views from 18 March until today, are 2/3 multiple of these numbers for each region.
Which means:
HBO Max - 10m
Crave - 3.3m
UK - 3.3m
Asia - 7.8m
Aus/NZ - 2.55m
South America- 3/4m
Europe - 6.7m
Africa - 675k
https://www.twitter.com/Dantani/status/1382340663820349442
It's crazy that WW84 gets a sequel greenlit, despite by all accounts most people said the film was mediocre and a step below from the first WW film, yet ZSJL gets ignored despite positive feedback and calls for a continuation.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 15 Apr 2021, 02:49It's crazy that WW84 gets a sequel greenlit, despite by all accounts most people said the film was mediocre and a step below from the first WW film, yet ZSJL gets ignored despite positive feedback and calls for a continuation.
Because Hollywood (at least up to now) has not been an industry built on good business sense, merit and profit.
Money is not irrelevant in Hollywood. But it's probably not even in the top five of most important things. If all they cared about was money and capitalizing on opportunities, maybe WW84 would get a sequel or maybe it wouldn't but ZSJL definitely would.
But it's not about money, mostly.
ZSJL would get a sequel in a normal situation. But nothing about this has been normal. Seems to me they won't do anything with the Snyderverse because they don't want the evil Superman/Batman sacrifice story playing out on screen. They freaked, felt pressure and moved on long ago. I'm not expecting anything to happen with HBO Max content either and that's the healthy way to be.
I've re-watched the Snyder cut and I watched the theatrical version for the firs time since 2017. I'm not intending to troll, I want to make that clear. I don't wish to anger anyone. I have to honest. While neither impresses me or are good movies, I think that all in all, I misjudged the theatrical version. I can now understand better what it was trying to do. The characters are better realized and I think the narrative structure is actually stronger. I can't believe I'm about to say this:
I think the theatrical cut is better.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 22 Apr 2021, 17:17
I've re-watched the Snyder cut and I watched the theatrical version for the firs time since 2017. I'm not intending to troll, I want to make that clear. I don't wish to anger anyone. I have to honest. While neither impresses me or are good movies, I think that all in all, I misjudged the theatrical version. I can now understand better what it was trying to do. The characters are better realized and I think the narrative structure is actually stronger. I can't believe I'm about to say this
I think the theatrical cut is better.
Right, if you think characters making stupid dumb Marvelesque (and sexist) one-liners and stripping away the meat of the story among Cyborg, Silas, Steppenwolf, Lois, even Flash and Aquaman qualifies as "better characterisation and stronger story structure", sure, by all means go ahead and think that. You'd be wrong, of course, but it's your opinion. FFS, Josstice League's treatment of the Mother Boxes doesn't even make any sense compared to the details that Snyder cut takes care of.
Anyway, ZSJL has been acknowledged as one of the best performing titles on HBO Max.
https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/hbo-max-q1-2021-subscribers-att-earnings-1234957719/amp/
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 22 Apr 2021, 17:17
I've re-watched the Snyder cut and I watched the theatrical version for the firs time since 2017. I'm not intending to troll, I want to make that clear. I don't wish to anger anyone. I have to honest. While neither impresses me or are good movies, I think that all in all, I misjudged the theatrical version. I can now understand better what it was trying to do. The characters are better realized and I think the narrative structure is actually stronger. I can't believe I'm about to say this:
I think the theatrical cut is better.
Why does Cyborg's defenses automatically target the resurrected Superman? The theatrical cut doesn't explain that. ZSJL does tho.
Why didn't the Mother Boxes send out their location when Silas Stone activated one of them to save Victor? To my recollection, the theatrical cut doesn't explain that. ZSJL does tho.
How does the theatrical cut sum up Lois? "Thirsty". How does ZSJL sum up Lois? Someone the world needs.
It's fine to have preferences. If the theatrical version is your jam, more power to you. But I simply see too many structural and technical flaws with it to ever bother watching it again.
The one meek defense I might offer for that version is the design of Steppenwolf isn't THAT bad. I can see where some people might think Snyder's Steppenwolf design is a little over the top. That doesn't justify the theatrical cut in my book. I'm just saying I could see the argument.
Let's not be too hard on GK.
If he sincerely believes Whedon's cut is better he's allowed to think so for the remainder of his life. As a sign of my compassion I declare he won't be hung in the morning. He will be shot.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 24 Apr 2021, 03:47
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 22 Apr 2021, 17:17
I've re-watched the Snyder cut and I watched the theatrical version for the firs time since 2017. I'm not intending to troll, I want to make that clear. I don't wish to anger anyone. I have to honest. While neither impresses me or are good movies, I think that all in all, I misjudged the theatrical version. I can now understand better what it was trying to do. The characters are better realized and I think the narrative structure is actually stronger. I can't believe I'm about to say this:
I think the theatrical cut is better.
Why does Cyborg's defenses automatically target the resurrected Superman? The theatrical cut doesn't explain that. ZSJL does tho.
Why didn't the Mother Boxes send out their location when Silas Stone activated one of them to save Victor? To my recollection, the theatrical cut doesn't explain that. ZSJL does tho.
How does the theatrical cut sum up Lois? "Thirsty". How does ZSJL sum up Lois? Someone the world needs.
It's fine to have preferences. If the theatrical version is your jam, more power to you. But I simply see too many structural and technical flaws with it to ever bother watching it again.
The one meek defense I might offer for that version is the design of Steppenwolf isn't THAT bad. I can see where some people might think Snyder's Steppenwolf design is a little over the top. That doesn't justify the theatrical cut in my book. I'm just saying I could see the argument.
Lois is summed up as someone the world needs in the theatrical cut as well, it just does it without needing copious amounts of exposition to do it, which is basically my argument for the whole comparison between the two films. She speaks to Clark more naturally and in character as a love interest and despite her love for him sends him to help the League. It is funny you mention that because I'd argue that her scenes are among the strongest in the release cut, especially her push for him to get involved. in Snyder's, Superman shows up because 'might as well.' Talk about structural problems. Superman deciding to save the day after placidly shrugging, not to mention that Lois just happens to be at the monument.
I think what it comes down to is that having the theatrical cut fresh in my mind enables me to better highlight the problems I have with Snyder overall. Exposition is not characterization. Lore is not characterization. Easter egg hunts are not characterization. World building is not characterization.
His scenes don't build off one another because we only accomplish bits and pieces at a time, so scenes do not progress, they feel like detours. All of his movies in the DCEU feel like assembly cuts that have yet to find the story. They feel like a collection of scenes. The theatrical version takes on stripping the fat and trying to characterize while handling more than one piece of business at a time. Having eons of time does inherently make something deeper or more significant. Film making of this sort is about time management. The work done is ham-fisted and streamlined, but it does a better job at getting over characters while moving the story along. That was the goal.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 26 Apr 2021, 22:02Lois is summed up as someone the world needs in the theatrical cut as well, it just does it without needing copious amounts of exposition to do it, which is basically my argument for the whole comparison between the two films. She speaks to Clark more naturally and in character as a love interest and despite her love for him sends him to help the League. It is funny you mention that because I'd argue that her scenes are among the strongest in the release cut, especially her push for him to get involved. in Snyder's, Superman shows up because 'might as well.' Talk about structural problems. Superman deciding to save the day after placidly shrugging, not to mention that Lois just happens to be at the monument.
I think what it comes down to is that having the theatrical cut fresh in my mind enables me to better highlight the problems I have with Snyder overall. Exposition is not characterization. Lore is not characterization. Easter egg hunts are not characterization. World building is not characterization.
His scenes don't build off one another because we only accomplish bits and pieces at a time, so scenes do not progress, they feel like detours. All of his movies in the DCEU feel like assembly cuts that have yet to find the story. They feel like a collection of scenes. The theatrical version takes on stripping the fat and trying to characterize while handling more than one piece of business at a time. Having eons of time does inherently make something deeper or more significant. Film making of this sort is about time management. The work done is ham-fisted and streamlined, but it does a better job at getting over characters while moving the story along. That was the goal.
Fair enough. We obviously disagree here. Still, I maintain that's a positive thing. It bugs the you know what out of me when people castigate me for having a different opinion. So, treating you that way would be hypocritical. I'm glad that at least one person out there sees value in the theatrical cut. Or at least more value than I see in it.
Even so, I honestly can't imagine ever watching the theatrical cut again. For me, ZSJL is just too big for anything to ever compete with. I'm happy you get something out of Whedon's version. But in my household, it's ZSJL or bust.
Lois Lane in ZSJL was done much better than how she had appeared in Josstice League. Her coming out of her constant grief thanks to Martha Kent's encouragement (albeit Martian Manhunter in disguise) after the two bonded over Clark is a lot more impactful and emotional than simply revealing she was somehow in on the plan to resurrect Superman in Whedon's version. Furthermore, it also shows MM made a vital contribution to the League in the very little amount of time we saw him on screen.
Plus, I don't find Lois Lane to be natural in Josstice League when she is the brunt of thirsty jokes and saying how Clark smelled good when the two returned to Smallville. In ZSJL, the time she spends to help Clark recognise the Kent farm that's now going into foreclosure makes the moment a very sentimental one, whereas in Josstice League Clark didn't even spend any time inside the house yet.
It has been noted by fans online the shot of the butterfly that Clark was touching has connotations to another butterfly trapped between chains in MOS, and other people have pointed out the butterfly represents the religious symbolism of resurrection itself.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210327175556/https://www.cbr.com/zack-snyder-justice-league-superman-butterfly-man-steel/
Instead, that was all replaced with CGI smiles and lazy attempts at light-hearted dialogue. ::)
I find it ludicruous to criticise the plot structure in ZSJL when Josstice League clearly didn't even care about important details. Once again, take a look at the Mother Boxes. In ZSJL, it was established that Steppenwolf and the Parademons could track down one location after another of where the Mother Boxes were last held because each device left behind a scent. That's why you had Parademons breaking into the STAR Labs facility and the Stones' residence. As well as Steppenwolf using mind-reading apparatus to interrogate the Atlantean guard to find out the whereabouts of the second Mother Box in Atlantis.
To the best of my recollection, the Mother Box emitting scents wasn't made clear in the Josstice League, if ever such a reference was made at all. But even if it did, questions remain unanswered in the Batman prologue scene. What was a random Parademon doing on the rooftop fighting Batman? Did it find the scent of a Mother Box nearby? We don't know. What sense does it make for the Parademon to commit suicide? It doesn't really, except it was a lazy way to make Batman recognise this mark left behind resembling the Mother Boxes in Lex's notes. Again, random writing that doesn't hold up under scrutiny.
Speaking of Batman, I don't see how anyone could say his characerisation was better in Josstice League. As I said before, the prologue doesn't make much sense, but what's even worse is Bill Tench from Manhunter suddenly goes from thief to concerned citizen, and Batman inexplicably lets him go. Knowing the issues about Whedon as we do now, I bet the nonsensical way the prologue ended was Whedon's way to punish Affleck for opposing the changes from Snyder's vision, as Whedon threatened to do to Gal Gadot behind the scenes.
Whedon's rewrites were pointless and only served as a detriment to Batman's character instead of improving it. How could Bruce not recognise Arthur Curry was Aquaman when he already saw him in Lex's metahuman video in BvS? In ZSJL, his attack on Steppenwolf's base was a clear strategic assault, but in Josstice League, he complains the other League members coming to his rescue as "not part of his plan". No excuse for this, other than maybe to fit in Alfred's line "this is the team". That's it with Whedon, quips became more important than actually meaningful dialogue. Are you seriously tell me Batman's entire defiant "Us United" line is not in the spirit of the character compared to asking Aquaman if he stalks to fish, or something is definitely bleeding? Come on.
I could go on forever, but the differences between the Mother Boxes and Batman alone in both versions of JL should give anyone a good idea the reshoots butchered the final product, instead of improving it .I don't care if someone doesn't like ZSJL. Hell, they can dismiss the use of exposition and world building all they want, even if they ignore such set-ups were intended for future sequels and solo character films such as Aquaman back in 2016. But this whole idea of Josstice League having better characterisation and story structure is complete and utter nonsense.
One more thing: Josstice League cut out two things.
1) Lois wearing Clark's engagement ring, which we finally heard Clark saying "I take that as a yes" in ZSJL.
2) Lois appears to be pregnant with Clark's son.
(https://img2.looper.com/img/gallery/the-lois-lane-scene-that-has-snyder-cut-fans-buzzing/lois-lane-could-potentially-be-pregnant-1616086061.jpg)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5q_M9dapTNY/maxresdefault.jpg)
So, the bassinet that Lois was holding in the original film was replaced by a box in Josstice League.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 27 Apr 2021, 12:40(https://img2.looper.com/img/gallery/the-lois-lane-scene-that-has-snyder-cut-fans-buzzing/lois-lane-could-potentially-be-pregnant-1616086061.jpg)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5q_M9dapTNY/maxresdefault.jpg)
I must tell you, the pregnancy thing intrigues me. That subplot does shine a different light on the bathtub scene from BVS, where, obviously, it's implied that they had sex. And originally, I thought that was all there was to it. Probably like most people, I assume.
But water is a symbol of fertility since I don't even know when. So, you've got the bathwater splashing around as Lois and Clark do the you know what in BVS, which could certainly be considered foreshadowing of the pregnancy, the home test, the bassinet, the whole program from ZSJL.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 26 Apr 2021, 23:47
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 26 Apr 2021, 22:02Lois is summed up as someone the world needs in the theatrical cut as well, it just does it without needing copious amounts of exposition to do it, which is basically my argument for the whole comparison between the two films. She speaks to Clark more naturally and in character as a love interest and despite her love for him sends him to help the League. It is funny you mention that because I'd argue that her scenes are among the strongest in the release cut, especially her push for him to get involved. in Snyder's, Superman shows up because 'might as well.' Talk about structural problems. Superman deciding to save the day after placidly shrugging, not to mention that Lois just happens to be at the monument.
I think what it comes down to is that having the theatrical cut fresh in my mind enables me to better highlight the problems I have with Snyder overall. Exposition is not characterization. Lore is not characterization. Easter egg hunts are not characterization. World building is not characterization.
His scenes don't build off one another because we only accomplish bits and pieces at a time, so scenes do not progress, they feel like detours. All of his movies in the DCEU feel like assembly cuts that have yet to find the story. They feel like a collection of scenes. The theatrical version takes on stripping the fat and trying to characterize while handling more than one piece of business at a time. Having eons of time does inherently make something deeper or more significant. Film making of this sort is about time management. The work done is ham-fisted and streamlined, but it does a better job at getting over characters while moving the story along. That was the goal.
Fair enough. We obviously disagree here. Still, I maintain that's a positive thing. It bugs the you know what out of me when people castigate me for having a different opinion. So, treating you that way would be hypocritical. I'm glad that at least one person out there sees value in the theatrical cut. Or at least more value than I see in it.
I appreciate you mentioning that. Being able to discuss mutual interests without it resorting to personal character judgement or insults is always a good thing. Speaking as someone who, as a younger person, let this stuff carry me away, I greatly appreciate it. It is a lovely thing. This aint Facebook, thank God.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 27 Apr 2021, 17:16
I appreciate you mentioning that. Being able to discuss mutual interests without it resorting to personal character judgement or insults is always a good thing. Speaking as someone who, as a younger person, let this stuff carry me away, I greatly appreciate it. It is a lovely thing. This aint Facebook, thank God.
It's all cool. I'm sure you know I was being playful before. I appreciate out of the box thinking and if someone genuinely believes something and expresses why, I respect and welcome that. I prefer the Snyder cut in all areas, but can still see what the Theatrical had in mind with the sequence of big blue lifting the house and racing Flash at the end. I won't forgive the CGI mouth, but Superman probably did need extra moments like that to round things out a bit more given the scarcity that exists. He didn't get the opportunity to properly interact with the League.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 28 Apr 2021, 01:43I won't forgive the CGI mouth
Nor I. And I feel a little bad for the effects technicians who did those shots. Because it's obviously possible to do a better job. But they were under the gun and had to finalize shots rapidly. Obviously, the quality will suffer. It sucks for them that their reputation probably took a hit on that when I assume they could've done a better job with just a month or two extra to do their work.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 27 Apr 2021, 14:47
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 27 Apr 2021, 12:40(https://img2.looper.com/img/gallery/the-lois-lane-scene-that-has-snyder-cut-fans-buzzing/lois-lane-could-potentially-be-pregnant-1616086061.jpg)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5q_M9dapTNY/maxresdefault.jpg)
I must tell you, the pregnancy thing intrigues me. That subplot does shine a different light on the bathtub scene from BVS, where, obviously, it's implied that they had sex. And originally, I thought that was all there was to it. Probably like most people, I assume.
But water is a symbol of fertility since I don't even know when. So, you've got the bathwater splashing around as Lois and Clark do the you know what in BVS, which could certainly be considered foreshadowing of the pregnancy, the home test, the bassinet, the whole program from ZSJL.
I never knew water represented that sort of symbolism. It definitely adds a whole new perspective on the bathtub scene in BvS, doesn't it?
IIRC, most Superman comics make it impossible for him to procreate with another human being. But in this movie continuity, it definitely appears he has no such disadvantages. It also makes Darkseid's that much of a cold-blooded monster to murder Lois while she's still pregnant and uses the Anti-Life Equation to brainwash a devastated Superman. And the fact that Cyborg's vision shows Lois' murder had happened at the Batcave makes Superman's hatred of Batman in the Knightmare world much more clearer.
"She was my world, and you took her from me".
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 28 Apr 2021, 03:14
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 28 Apr 2021, 01:43I won't forgive the CGI mouth
Nor I. And I feel a little bad for the effects technicians who did those shots. Because it's obviously possible to do a better job. But they were under the gun and had to finalize shots rapidly. Obviously, the quality will suffer. It sucks for them that their reputation probably took a hit on that when I assume they could've done a better job with just a month or two extra to do their work.
The effects technicians were given a clown situation and they had to work within those guidelines.
The small details add up:
The Knightcrawler leg stomping the Parademon when Batman saves Wonder Woman, which is absent in the Theatrical.
Batman kicking the Parademon off the walkway and watching it fall to its death.
The gauntlets absorbing energy, which is completely absent in the Theatrical.
The wreck of the Batmobile taking out a squad of Parademons.
Parademons swarming Batman's ejector seat immediately after he rappels away from it.
Batman's wealth:
Showing Arthur the cash
"What are your superpowers again?" - "I'm rich"
"You have a satellite?" - "I have six"
"I bought the bank"
Batman's will:
"He said he climbed over the mountain. Impossible."
"I don't care how many demons he's fought in how many hells. He's never fought us. Not us united."
I also dig how once Batman arrives at the scout ship he tells Cyborg to set off the alarms, which he does. Batman may be a man without any powers but his street smarts are respected. He's directing the whole thing in there, telling the team to keep going no matter what. As a fan I liked seeing that.
Fans on social media are buzzing over ZSJL gaining 340 million views and counting on a Chinese streaming service in only a little over a week since the film debuted legally in the country. Word is going around is that it surpassed Endgame too, though I can't verify if that's true. Nevertheless, here is the link to the site where you can translate to English to see the views.
https://www.miguvideo.com/mgs/website/prd/detail.html?cid=709642929
I'm not an expert on streaming numbers, let alone the viewing habits in China and how films are measured in success there. But I suspect one of the reasons for the film's big streaming figures in that country has to do with Kai Zheng, a well-known actor from the country who played Ryan Choi. Now, can you imagine the enormous box office potential the DCEU would've had in China if they had stayed the course with Snyder's plan and have Choi star in an Atom film, as he suggested to WB four or five years ago? Too bad WB let their shortsightedness and pathetic little egos get in the way of their own success.
Meanwhile, ZSJL tops the UK's Official Film Chart on digital downloads, for a third consecutive week in a row.
https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/zack-snyder-s-justice-league-flies-into-third-week-atop-the-official-film-chart__33119/
Something tells me ZSJL has been a lot more successful than WB cares to admit.
Finally, something irked me about the differences between Superman's arrival to battle Steppenwolf between ZSJL and Josstice L.
In ZSJL, Superman arrives just in time to block Steppenwolf's axe from hitting Cyborg and then proceeds to fight; buying Cyborg more time to stop the Unity.
In Josstice L, Superman arrives AFTER Steppenwolf took a chunk of Cyborg's shoulder with his axe and ripped his leg off.
Yeah, I know which one impresses me the most.
Was the Whedon scene a result of hazing Ray Fisher? After hearing about the hostile atmosphere going on behind the scenes of the reshoots, it wouldn't surprise me. But even if you put that aside, it's yet another reason why I think any argument that Josstice L had the better characterisation of the two versions of JL is a complete and utter joke.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/036/862/impressed.jpg)
I have no idea what this means. Or if it's true.
AT&T Board Meets as Discovery Merger Discussions Accelerate; Shock Reverberates Around WarnerMedia
https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/att-discovery-jeff-zucker-david-zaslav-warnermedia-1234974237
"There's no way this deal doesn't make AT&T look like fools," said a WarnerMedia veteran.
Tempted to agree with that, actually. But since this is AT&T we're talking about, I want to believe there's an angle here that isn't apparent yet.
EDIT- As a preliminary, I don't understand why this is happening. I also don't see how this could possibly be a good thing for restoring the Snyderverse. Not looking good, fam.
The merger is confirmed.
https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/david-zaslav-warnermedia-discovery-merger-1234974393/amp/
The news that Toby Emmerich could be on the way out from a fortnight ago might start to look even more sense, but let's see where it goes. So far, Snyder approved this unflattering comment about Emmerich on Vero.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1jpNhEVoAga6_D?format=jpg&name=large)
As for whether or not this good news for the prospects of the Snyderverse continuing, ZSJL was listed as a valuable piece of content already on display in this screenshot. Make of that what you will.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1l1c8xWQAcDXra?format=jpg&name=large)
This is the first time that WarnerMedia has recognised ZSJL as a "hit MAX original".
https://pressroom.warnermedia.com/us/media-release/hbo-max-announces-ad-supported-tier-pricing-previews-new-original-series-and-content
Too bad they didn't embrace the film's success openly as soon as it came out.
Jesus.
At&T ultimately spent damn near the same amount of time debating Congress to get approval to buy Warnermedia as they did owning them outright.
So if I'm reading this correctly, Discovery will take over WB and AT&T will virtually have nothing to do with it? Essentially being "spun-off" into a new company that AT&T won't even control despite owning a majority stake on the company.
I've been thinking about the Knightmare timeline, specifically Superman's descent into dictator. Do I prefer this route, or Kingdom Come's depiction of a man who slinks away into mourning and retirement?
After consideration I have chose the dictator option. What is the point other heroes and villains fearing that possibility if it's never a serious likelihood of ever happening? When it does their concerns are rewarded. Superman is a hero, but the dictator timeline makes him a dormant time bomb, waiting to go off if he's put under emotional stress. I think that's more interesting. But I think it's better if that stress is significant.
Beloved darling Superman '78 shows he loses emotional control when confronted by loss, namely the death of Lois. He reverses time in a rage. How would even the Reeve incarnation behave if that trick didn't work and Lois remained dead? Cavill losing Lois, being exposed to the anti life equation and then flipping out, is still in line with the character.
However Injustice handles thing better, I think: Superman killing Lois after being tricked by the Joker, and then a nuclear bomb destroying Metropolis. The mental snap being the result of something truly serious and not just one life close to him. It makes the dictator timeline seem less petty. The gloves come off because it seems nothing matters anymore as he's not the only one who suffered. He deems the old ways of fighting crime didn't work and changes need to be made.
Would I want Superman being a dictator all the time? No. As the Snyderverse put things, it's a Knightmare. It's the end of the line. It's the place where all hope dies. The goal is to avoid that timeline from ever happening. But under the right circumstances it could.
Well, it looks like ZSJL is killing it on average so far this year.
https://flixpatrol.com/top10/hbo/world/2021/
Meanwhile, Snyder was interviewed by YouTuber Tyrone Magnus a few days ago and said nobody from Warners or HBO Max contacted him since ZSJL was released.
https://youtu.be/eI4pakW4864
Pretty sh*tty, but typical of Warners. Let's see if the Discovery merger will result in any significant change.
#RestoreTheSnyderverse is trending on Twitter again rn.
Also, I tumbled onto this article (https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2021/05/31/warnermedia-discovery-should-make-zack-snyders-justice-league-part-2/amp) which makes a lot of the same points the rest of you have made about the creative and financial merits of actually restoring the Snyderverse. It's worth a read, I think.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 14 Jun 2021, 17:55
#RestoreTheSnyderverse is trending on Twitter again rn.
I read that it reached as high as 241K. While it's not as big as the incredible 1.5 million mark back in March, it's still a pretty high trending figure by Twitter's standards. Warner are insane to try and ignore such a demand.
If none of that is tangible to some doubters, then how about this: ZSJL has been consistently on top of the UK's Official Film Chart in home video sales for weeks.
https://www.mediaplaynews.com/warners-zack-snyders-justice-league-posts-fifth-week-atop-uk-home-entertainment-chart/
This caught Snyder's attention on social media, and he took the opportunity to thank the fans for their support. Meanwhile, Warner continues to keep quiet over how ZSJL performed on HBO Max. How petty.
So, the mad lad Snyder tweeted out a pic of Batman giving Catwoman oral pleasure and Twitter broke in half.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4Ix3sFVoAcjO13?format=jpg&name=small)
This is the funniest stuff I will see all day.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 18 Jun 2021, 12:36
So, the mad lad Snyder tweeted out a pic of Batman giving Catwoman oral pleasure and Twitter broke in half.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4Ix3sFVoAcjO13?format=jpg&name=small)
This is the funniest stuff I will see all day.
Ha, I saw that too. 8)
I don't care for that stupid Harley Quinn show, and using such a gag for cheap laughs is pretty dumb. But what's even dumber is the excuse for removing it. "Heroes don't do that". Really? Frankly, I'm more creeped out with Batman and Batgirl getting it on in The Killing Joke animated film despite Barbara being half her age and her being Jim's daughter. But whatever.
While on the subject of Catwoman, Snyder mentioned Carla Gugino might've been a good candidate to play her opposite with Affleck.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210301141212/https://comicbook.com/movies/news/zack-snyder-would-have-cast-carla-gugino-as-catwoman-opposite-af/
ZSJL is coming out on DVD and BRD on September 07.
There are objective ways of tracking those sales. Assuming WB rly has tried to bury ZSJL's success, they won't be able to bury sales figures.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 24 Jun 2021, 20:50
ZSJL is coming out on DVD and BRD on September 07.
There are objective ways of tracking those sales. Assuming WB rly has tried to bury ZSJL's success, they won't be able to bury sales figures.
Just as the home video release was announced today, Snyder's upload of Batman going down on Catwoman has been blocked by copyright strikes on both Twitter and Vero. I've read that pro-Snyder fan Twitter accounts who uploaded the same picture got suspended for copyright violations.
Coincidence? I don't think so.
It's unlikely that Warner Butchers can hide the sales figures, but that doesn't mean their f***ery will stop. Snyder has confirmed they won't release the alternate Joker dialogue on home video.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4p7tMEXMAE5GfJ?format=jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzGkCMkV31E
Nonetheless, ZSJL is still a massive success judging by the overseas viewing word of mouth and leading #1 on the UK home video chart. Suck it, Warners.
At the time of writing, 4K Ultra Blu-Ray and a special edition Blu-Ray "trilogy" box set is among the top five selling movies on Amazon for days, with the former leading at number one.
Discovery better be looking at all of these sales both on physical and digital releases.
I didn't realise the creator of Metal Gear Solid had his own issues with his last game with Konami, so no wonder he seems to appreciate ZSKL.
https://screenrant.com/zack-snyder-justice-league-hideo-kojima-praise/
Craig Mazin, who was the showrunner and writer for the HBO Chernobyl mini-series, revealed that Snyder approached him to do rewrites while he was involved in the production. Mazin expressed his appreciation for the cut as well.
Quote
I saw the Zack Snyder cut back when he was working on it. Because they were talking about maybe doing a week or reshoots or something like that. And so he invited two or three – I think there were three or four of us, writers, to watch the movie in the state it was in and then just have a conversation about some things that they might be able to do to tweak some things up over the course of a week of writing.
And I, you know me, I'm not like a huge superhero movie guy, but I really liked it. I liked it. I thought it was really good. I thought there were a couple things, like OK here's some suggestions and things. And then Zack left the project. And so that was it. Literally, I think he left like the next week. And I never saw the Joss Whedon version.
https://screenrant.com/zack-snyder-justice-league-reshoots-2017-craig-mazin/
I read this and think back to the time when that crook Emmerich promised how Whedon would stay true to what Snyder wanted, and can't help but still feel disgusted. Worse, the tampering behind the scenes still happened even when ZSJL was getting finished. Disgraceful.
Jared Leto shared this cool fan made poster on his Instagram stories a few days ago.
(https://i.imgur.com/hSgFAfX.jpg)
Now ZSJL is finally available to buy on physical home video in the US. Three months after most countries, if not all, had been sold in retail.
Is there a good reason for this strangely late distribution, or is it more f***ery from Warner Butchers? I can't help but suspect it's the latter.
Pathetic, petty Warner Butchers are at it. Just when you think they couldn't have sunken to a new low after posting that spiteful Josstice L 4K Ultra Blu Ray trailer five months ago.
Two weeks ago, the official Warner Bros. Entertainment YouTube channel uploaded a TV ad promoting the 4K Ultra Blu Ray release of ZSJL, but they kept the ad as "unlisted". This means the ad is hidden from the channel's video tab, and it doesn't appear in search results either.
https://youtu.be/elXO_nMCYYg
More people are beginning to notice how this wretched studio is trying to bury this movie despite the fact that it's making money. Such as this Twitter account:
Quote
So apparently @warnerbros unlisted any #SnyderCut related videos. They really don't realize the audience for those films are actually bigger than they think
It's frustrating that the Snyder cut had a bad marketing campaign. If it had a good campaign, I think the movie would have performed much better (not to say it didn't)
https://twitter.com/bigscreenleaks/status/1435763760057274372
Oh, WB definitely knows very well the audience for Snyder's movies are big. It's just that they're spiteful, worthless scumbags. There is word going around on Twitter saying places like Best Buy were given short supply of copies to sell:
Quote
I have to say: I wasn't shocked when I got an email from Best Buy last night saying my pre-ordered steelbook of ZSJL wasn't going to arrive today. Just as I wasn't surprised it took like three extra weeks to get a UHD of the remastered BVS.
WB just ... doesn't seem to care.
https://twitter.com/SonnyBunch/status/1435410360262144010
When you're starting to see skeptics such as this YouTuber - who doubted the Snyder cut even existed - now calling out the likes of Toby Emmerich for dragging the studio's name through the mud by trying to sabotage the film's success, you know it's a bad look.
https://twitter.com/snyder_all/status/1435599615961731072
Never in my life have I seen business people desperately trying to cut off their noses to spite their own faces. I'll say it again: Emmerich and all of those other saboteurs must be FIRED immediately.
I'm out when it comes to most physical media. I usually prefer buying movies on iTunes or Apple TV or whatever tf they want to call it this week. But ZSJL isn't up there to be purchased. To be fair to all parties concerned, the press releases have only specified a Blu-Ray release. But still, for basically every other movie, "Blu-Ray release date" is practically a euphemism for "Apple TV too". But clearly, that's not the case with ZSJL.
And it's funny too. Because back when Superman Returns came out and tanked back in 2006, Bryan Singer wasted no time in throwing the marketing department under the bus... even tho the marketing department is probably the only reason SR's paltry opening weekend was as relatively good as it was. The trailers, TV spots and other promotional stuff gave would-be viewers a fairly decent idea of what the movie would be. Which is just about the most you can ask for any marketing effort.
The real issue is that SR was just a crap movie and most people weren't interested in seeing it. It had nothing to do with bad marketing and everything to do with a bad movie.
And yet, ZSJL has tons of interest. It's a quality product. But it truly IS saddled with bad marketing. Or sabotage, if that works better for you. And yet, it's rising to the top anyway because people are interested in it.
I maintain that this rly does look like a black eye for AT&T. I, for one, expected better from them. And who knows? They may still surprise me. But a lot of damage has been done and a lot of good will has been lost. This won't be easy to come back from. And the Snyderverse is facing enough challenges as it is.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 9 Sep 2021, 12:24
I'm out when it comes to most physical media. I usually prefer buying movies on iTunes or Apple TV or whatever tf they want to call it this week. But ZSJL isn't up there to be purchased. To be fair to all parties concerned, the press releases have only specified a Blu-Ray release. But still, for basically every other movie, "Blu-Ray release date" is practically a euphemism for "Apple TV too". But clearly, that's not the case with ZSJL.
And it's funny too. Because back when Superman Returns came out and tanked back in 2006, Bryan Singer wasted no time in throwing the marketing department under the bus... even tho the marketing department is probably the only reason SR's paltry opening weekend was as relatively good as it was. The trailers, TV spots and other promotional stuff gave would-be viewers a fairly decent idea of what the movie would be. Which is just about the most you can ask for any marketing effort.
The real issue is that SR was just a crap movie and most people weren't interested in seeing it. It had nothing to do with bad marketing and everything to do with a bad movie.
And yet, ZSJL has tons of interest. It's a quality product. But it truly IS saddled with bad marketing. Or sabotage, if that works better for you. And yet, it's rising to the top anyway because people are interested in it.
Let's face it, hesitating to call this a sabotage is only playing down the severity of the situation and the entire history surrounding this movie adaptation of JL to come out. But yes, you're definitely right that this movie is rising very high. At the time of writing, the 4K Ultra HD, standard Blu Ray and "trilogy" sets are among the top selling Blu Rays on Amazon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VketJdaGNEM
Not to mention the film had been leading the UK's Official Film Chart in digital downloads for many consecutive weeks this year.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 9 Sep 2021, 12:24
I maintain that this rly does look like a black eye for AT&T. I, for one, expected better from them. And who knows? They may still surprise me. But a lot of damage has been done and a lot of good will has been lost. This won't be easy to come back from. And the Snyderverse is facing enough challenges as it is.
I've been thinking about this too, and it's a more than valid point.
I've heard of rumours that AT&T stepped in to stop The Flash movie from making any attempts to belittle or erase the Snyderverse timeline. Okay...so why doesn't the parent company step in and keep WB in check to produce and distribute its own product properly? The fact there's a new merger underway must mean there are some serious organisational issues we're not aware of. It doesn't help that HBO Max's international distribution is excluded from a lot of overseas markets which impacts its growth.
AT&T may make meaningful positive change. But timing is everything when it comes to cinema. Esp big budget cinema.
And sadly (or not), I think comic book cinema's most successful days are behind it. Yes, there's probably still oodles of money to be made. But even tho I don't hold Endgame in any particularly high regard, it was still a watershed moment for a lot of people. I think Endgame is rly looking like the moment when people finally got their fill of comic book movies.
Bringing the Snyderverse back in TODAY'S market is a gigantic set of logistical hurdles with, I think, lower chances for ROI. And that's if they AT&T/WME were to hit the ground running RIGHT NOW and have a new Snyder film ready in the next two years. Which is impossible, let's be realistic here.
The ship may not have fully sailed yet with comic book films. But it's getting there. It's definitely left the dock, if you ask me.
I found out Warner Butchers uploaded and hid the same ad TWICE.
"youtu.be/elXO_nMCYYg"
"youtu.be/Akp5FC-RiDQ&t"
I have never seen a company that is so anti-business in my whole life.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 12 Sep 2021, 02:48
AT&T may make meaningful positive change. But timing is everything when it comes to cinema. Esp big budget cinema.
And sadly (or not), I think comic book cinema's most successful days are behind it. Yes, there's probably still oodles of money to be made. But even tho I don't hold Endgame in any particularly high regard, it was still a watershed moment for a lot of people. I think Endgame is rly looking like the moment when people finally got their fill of comic book movies.
Maybe there's another reason why live action superhero content is slowly migrating to streaming services. If what you say is true then expect budgets to become progressively cheaper going forward.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 12 Sep 2021, 02:48
Bringing the Snyderverse back in TODAY'S market is a gigantic set of logistical hurdles with, I think, lower chances for ROI. And that's if they AT&T/WME were to hit the ground running RIGHT NOW and have a new Snyder film ready in the next two years. Which is impossible, let's be realistic here.
The ship may not have fully sailed yet with comic book films. But it's getting there. It's definitely left the dock, if you ask me.
If we're led to believe this rumour, Walter Hamada is desperate to greenlight another JL movie to save his job, but he is allegedly already losing his grip now the studio is in the middle of a merger. Including The Flash is rumoured to be following ZSJL as canon and disregarding Josstice L, and any JL would have to adhere to ZSJL.
https://youtu.be/nUfrNhuo5-o?t=237
Mikey Sutton has been saying the same thing, but I'll let time reveal if whether or not this is all true. Should there be ZSJL Part 2, the home video and digital sales will be crucial.
Quote
'Zack Snyder's Justice League' Dominates Disc Sales
Zack Snyder's Justice League easily took the top spot on both the NPD VideoScan First Alert chart, which tracks combined DVD and Blu-ray Disc unit sales, and the dedicated Blu-ray Disc sales chart the week ended Sept. 11.
The four-hour director's cut of the 2017 superhero team-up Justice League, distributed by Warner Bros. Home Entertainment, outsold the No. 2 title by a 5-to-1 margin.
Snyder's re-edited and extended version of the DC Comics adaptation, which he couldn't finish in 2017, serves as the sequel to his 2013 film Man of Steel and its 2016 follow-up Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, and was first released on the HBO Max streaming service in March.
Blu-ray Disc formats accounted for 75% of Zack Snyder's Justice League first-week unit sales, with 38% of its total tally coming specifically from 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray (meaning 37% was regular Blu-ray and 25% was DVD).
A trilogy collection of all three of Snyder's DC films was No. 14 on the Blu-ray Disc chart.
The previous week's top overall disc seller, Warner's The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It, dropped to No. 2 on the overall chart. The third "Conjuring" movie was down one spot on the Blu-ray Disc chart to No. 4.
Lionsgate's Hitman's Wife's Bodyguard was the No. 3 overall disc seller and the No. 2 Blu-ray.
https://www.mediaplaynews.com/zack-snyders-justice-league-dominates-disc-sales/
Despite Warner's intentional lack of marketing, ZSJL is doing very good business. Any other normal businesspeople in charge of the studio would've been very pleased with this news. Emmerich and co, on the other hand, would rather leave money on the table.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 14 Sep 2021, 09:39
I have never seen a company that is so anti-business in my whole life.
Yeah, you've been on top of this, and the amount of
distain, even in the face of actual PROFIT, that this company has displayed, is literally outrageous.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 17 Sep 2021, 16:29
Despite Warner's intentional lack of marketing, ZSJL is doing very good business. Any other normal businesspeople in charge of the studio would've been very pleased with this news. Emmerich and co, on the other hand, would rather leave money on the table.
Glad to see ZSJL sales being substantially great. Wonder what the sales
could've been with a actual legitimate push in marketing? Stay classy, Warner's.
Daily reminder, it ain't about money in Hollywood. Hands down without question, the #1 commodity in that town is EGO. Everything else is a distant second at best.
I'll give the more than less absentee parent in town, AT&T, credit for green lighting ZSJL, but it's profoundly evident that being a consistent "business" overseer never was in the cards. All the aforementioned shenanigans, and public statement slights from Warner's towards ZSJL made this abundantly clear. Which have been bizarrely allowed to happen to this very day. Amusingly enough.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 18 Sep 2021, 16:44
Daily reminder, it ain't about money in Hollywood. Hands down without question, the #1 commodity in that town is EGO. Everything else is a distant second at best.
Well thanks to ego, the current regime at Warner lost Nolan, who was announced to direct his next film for Universal a few days ago. Now I might not be a Nolan fan, but I can't ignore the fact that he has made Warner lots of money over the years. Losing him to another studio is yet another big black eye. That's not to say he doesn't have an ego either, but it's clear the whole HBO Max same day/same release controversy burned a lot of bridges with many people in the industry, especially him.
Right now, all Warner has too much ego, and not enough profit. "Director-driven studio", my ass.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 18 Sep 2021, 17:52
I'll give the more than less absentee parent in town, AT&T, credit for green lighting ZSJL, but it's profoundly evident that being a consistent "business" overseer never was in the cards. All the aforementioned shenanigans, and public statement slights from Warner's towards ZSJL made this abundantly clear. Which have been bizarrely allowed to happen to this very day. Amusingly enough.
Depending on who you ask, AT&T might've overestimated their abilities to work in the entertainment industry. HBO Max is tangled with all these complicated relationships with other existing platforms, and now the service will begin slashing its prices in half to curb an expected loss in subscribers. The lack of adequate worldwide distribution compared to Netflix, Amazon Prime and Disney Plus makes this even worse. I suppose Nolan wasn't speaking out of pure bitterness when he called HBO Max "the worst streaming service". On paper, it does have rich content on offer, but it's mismanaged horribly.
https://www.mediaplaynews.com/is-there-hope-for-warner-bros-after-three-miserable-years-under-att
https://deadline.com/2021/09/hbo-max-half-price-discount-amazon-channels-streaming-1234838612
It's a mess. But the least that AT&T could've done is keep Emmerich and co in line when it comes to all things ZSJL. The deliberate lack of marketing of ZSJL is only the latest act of sabotage in a long list of misconduct. I won't list all the issues again, it's all documented for everyone to read.
If we're led to believe some scoopers, the Discovery merger will kick out the dead weight at Warner, and it should give hopes for the Snyderverse to continue in some shape or form. But until I see concrete evidence this is really happening, it's best to take it as a rumour. First and foremost, Emmerich and co need to get the f*** out. Their egos are destroying this studio's reputation.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 19 Sep 2021, 03:05
Well thanks to ego, the current regime at Warner lost Nolan, who was announced to direct his next film for Universal a few days ago. Now I might not be a Nolan fan, but I can't ignore the fact that he has made Warner lots of money over the years. Losing him to another studio is yet another big black eye. That's not to say he doesn't have an ego either, but it's clear the whole HBO Max same day/same release controversy burned a lot of bridges with many people in the industry, especially him.
TDK (the 2008 movie; not the member here) still earns tons of money for WB each year. About a year or two ago, I read a stat saying that TDK has been bringing between $80-$100 million per year since 2013 or so. Apparently, it was higher before that, as might be expected.
That single statistic should've guaranteed Nolan a lifelong comfy relationship with WB. The fact that WB lost him SHOULD have cost somebody high up his job. But it apparently hasn't. Which, again, speaks to the ego thing. The right person's ego got massaged so who cares if WB lost one of the top five hottest directors in the entire world rn?
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 19 Sep 2021, 03:05Depending on who you ask, AT&T might've overestimated their abilities to work in the entertainment industry.
Clearly, I overestimated their ability to manage f**king media brand. So, I'm in no position to argue that.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 19 Sep 2021, 03:05HBO Max is tangled with all these complicated relationships with other existing platforms,
I'm prepared to give AT&T a pass on that. The fact is that subscribers are more forgiving than most people realize. A mediocre streaming service today can become a big player in just a year or two. HBO Max's shortcomings are not insurmountable. The "complicated relationships" are not chiseled in stone by God's fingernail. Those agreements will sunset, thereby simplifying matters.
I understand if hard decisions have to be made at this moment. But full-stop, now isn't the time to throw the baby out with the bathwater, you know what I mean?
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 19 Sep 2021, 03:05
HBO Max is tangled with all these complicated relationships with other existing platforms, and now the service will begin slashing its prices in half to curb an expected loss in subscribers.
Jesus ....
QuoteI suppose Nolan wasn't speaking out of pure bitterness when he called HBO Max "the worst streaming service". On paper, it does have rich content on offer, but it's mismanaged horribly.
https://www.mediaplaynews.com/is-there-hope-for-warner-bros-after-three-miserable-years-under-att
https://deadline.com/2021/09/hbo-max-half-price-discount-amazon-channels-streaming-1234838612
At least they are consistent in being spectacularly incompetent. I mean, it's pretty much a real life spoof of a company these days. Who's handling things? Ralph Henderson?
QuoteIt's a mess. But the least that AT&T could've done is keep Emmerich and co in line when it comes to all things ZSJL. The deliberate lack of marketing of ZSJL is only the latest act of sabotage in a long list of misconduct. I won't list all the issues again, it's all documented for everyone to read.
Truly. To be perfectly honest, I kinda expected Warner's to
at least attempt a half assed, absolutely half hearted cordiality towards the fan base (and even just general people who might actually have maybe just the slightest interest in checking out Snyder's vision for JL) following the order, and subsequent announcement that the Snyder Cut of JL was, at long last, going to be fully realized. If that couldn't be mustered, perhaps just some professionalism in terms of hype/advertising the film?
Welp. That was a no, and hell no.
QuoteIf we're led to believe some scoopers, the Discovery merger will kick out the dead weight at Warner, and it should give hopes for the Snyderverse to continue in some shape or form. But until I see concrete evidence this is really happening, it's best to take it as a rumour. First and foremost, Emmerich and co need to get the f*** out. Their egos are destroying this studio's reputation.
Yes, keeping expectations in check, and at a bare minimum is sound advice. The alternative only brings disappointment.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 19 Sep 2021, 11:19
Truly. To be perfectly honest, I kinda expected Warner's to at least attempt a half assed, absolutely half hearted cordiality towards the fan base (and even just general people who might actually have maybe just the slightest interest in checking out Snyder's vision for JL) following the order, and subsequent announcement that the Snyder Cut of JL was, at long last, going to be fully realized. If that couldn't be mustered, perhaps just some professionalism in terms of hype/advertising the film?
Welp. That was a no, and hell no.
Last year, there was a honeymoon period after ZSJL was announced that lasted about three or so months and every WB-affiliated social media account towed the line. That included WarnerMedia unleashing press releases to HBO Max and AT&T engaging with fans online. I understand social media interaction aren't indicative of what's happening behind the scenes, but there was excitement and high hopes in the DCEU (whatever the hell that even means anymore) for the first time in maybe five years. Look at the engagement here.
(https://i.imgur.com/Ch3lNLY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2IQoSXX.jpg)
Then WarnerMedia had a corporate restructure later in the year, and that's when things gradually started to go backwards. That douchebag Emmerich was given more control of HBO Max and two key people in charge of the service who were reportedly pro-Snyderverse were let go, as this guy analyses in the video below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM1T2r2WWUQ&t
From there, things started to unravel. AT&T let their guard down ever since and failed to keep Emmerich and his cronies in check and that's when we started seeing increased volume of unprofessionalism relating to the promotion of ZSJL. The sudden removal of the first Hallelujah trailer due to a supposed copyright issue was the first red flag. Even WarnerMedia CEO Jason Kilar engaged with Snyder cut fans on social media for most of the time leading up to the film's release, and then he suddenly ghosted people as soon as it came out. Now I'm hearing the 4K and Blu Ray releases don't include the digital QR code to stream the movie, which is supposed to be a common feature with Blu Ray media.
Warner Butchers can try and hide HBO Max's streaming numbers all they want, but they can't hide the home video sales. Sucks for them, even though they should be glad ZSJL is making some money for them, unlike a lot of their other movies this year.
But if we're led to believe some of the reports in the media, the likes of Kilar, Emmerich and Sarnoff's days appear to be numbered. Let's hope so, because one PR disaster and business failure after another is unsustainable. Egos be damned.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 20 Sep 2021, 15:29
Last year, there was a honeymoon period after ZSJL was announced that lasted about three or so months and every WB-affiliated social media account towed the line. That included WarnerMedia unleashing press releases to HBO Max and AT&T engaging with fans online. I understand social media interaction aren't indicative of what's happening behind the scenes, but there was excitement and high hopes in the DCEU (whatever the hell that even means anymore) for the first time in maybe five years. Look at the engagement here.
(https://i.imgur.com/Ch3lNLY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2IQoSXX.jpg)
Yes, I remember the social media accounts coming across as
at least supportive following the announcement. Unfortunately, I could never shake the rather
unsupportive, or hell I'll be nice here,
disinclined of any enthusiasm statement from Bob Greenblat where he publicly stated, "I wish it was just 30 million." Which, was only about a week following Snyder officially announcing that his vision would finally see fruition.
Now was this statement of resignation indicative of what the environment and overall opinion towards ZSJL was behind the scenes at Warner's? Which was in direct contrast of the official social media accounts? Or was this just Bob being a sour puss? Either way, that kind of mix signaling statement, pretty much right from the jump, put a suspicious dark cloud over the question of exactly what kind of support ZSJL was going to get from Warner's when the release would finally become imminent the following year. Of course, WB soon after (as we eventually witnessed), chose to dissatisfy with the roll out, and pretty much everything else pertaining to the ZSJL investment subsequent to it's release.
The pouting childishness is truly something to behold.
Yeah, I remember reading some executive lamenting about the additional budget going over $30 million, but I forgot it was Goldblatt who said that. If was he bitter about it then maybe he wasn't really an ally as some ZSJL supporters might have thought.
Today, someone on social media brought to other fans' attention that the WarnerMax trademark has been resubmitted - nearly a year since it folded after it only lasted for three or so months. At the time of writing, its application status is still pending.
https://uspto.report/TM/97019118
Reminder: the reason why WarnerMax got cancelled was because of the restructure that happened at WarnerMedia at the time. It was a streaming production branch that was intended to produce HBO Max projects and ZSJL was originally meant to be its first; its logo even appeared in the first Hallelujah trailer that got deleted.
Is this part of a surprise plan to resurrect it, or is there another explanation for this?
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 22 Sep 2021, 20:12
The pouting childishness is truly something to behold.
Get ready to be dismayed at the childish stupidity once more my friend, because Warner Butchers have now turned off ALL the comments in the unlisted YouTube ad.
At this point, you only have to LAUGH at these worthless degenerates who are running this studio into the ground. I know Star Wars fans have tons of issues with Disney, but this sh*t with Warner is much worse.
#RestoreTheSnyderVerse was trending on Twitter yet again today, as a reaction to HBO Max describing ZSJL a "global phenomenon", while the streaming service was promoting its launch in Europe. HBO Max Europe even highlighted BvS among their DC movie catalog.
https://www.twitter.com/kryptoncaged/status/1445329211045007361
From what I've seen, it's only the American branch that are ignoring ZSJL and anything else that's Snyderverse-related, whereas every other overseas branch affiliated with WB promote it. All the more reason why the wankers in charge of the home headquarters in Hollywood need to be fired ASAP.
I saw these ads advertised on HBO Max's overseas accounts. One of them is dubbed in Spanish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z9RuymHSi0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNe0Tze-1cM
Aside from snippet of the the Williams Superman theme playing in the beginning, you can definitely hear the BvS Batman theme in the clip.
Is there a power struggle going on at Warner? You have the Hollywood studio trying their hardest to ignore ZSJL and stay anti-Snyderverse, but the overseas branches have yet again shown they're pro-Snyderverse.
What a mess of a company.
#RestoreTheSnyderVerse is now trending over 303K at the time of writing.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latestly.com/socially/entertainment/hollywood/restorethesnyderverse-trends-on-twitter-ahead-of-dc-fandome-2021-2958280.html/amp
What a farce of a company Warner is.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 16 Oct 2021, 22:22
#RestoreTheSnyderVerse is now trending over 303K at the time of writing.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latestly.com/socially/entertainment/hollywood/restorethesnyderverse-trends-on-twitter-ahead-of-dc-fandome-2021-2958280.html/amp
What a farce of a company Warner is.
I read that it trended at 390K, ahead of nearly all of the DC-releated hashtags except for the main #DCFanDome hashtag.
Good effort.
I'm sure most of you have this on 4k already, but it's on early black friday sale on Amazon and Walmart for $10.
I picked it up
I'm very impressed to see ZSJL is selling phenomenally well since it has been out on Blu-Ray for months. At the time of writing, it's still sitting at number one of the Blu-Ray best sellers chart on Amazon.com, as you can see in the screenshot I attached to this post.
I don't pay much attention to the scooper ViewerAnon, but he is spot on right here.
Quote
Raise your glasses to Warner Bros, who this year finally had most of the world cheering the Snyder Cut and excited for a real future for the DCEU and... promptly did nothing with it. Simply the best studio there is.
https://twitter.com/ViewerAnon/status/1458490793778298880
Meanwhile, Clay Staub - who worked as second unit director of JL - tweeted these words of encouragement.
Quote from: Clay Staub
There's always part seven...
#RestoreTheSnyderVerse
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEAG883acAApK_4?format=jpg)
https://twitter.com/Clay_Staub/status/1459174366185353219
Quote
Blu-ray Sales: November 7-13: Zack Snyder's Justice League Knocks Off The Suicide Squad
For the week that ended on November 13th, Warner Bros. Home Entertainment's Zack Snyder's Justice League topped the Blu-ray chart once again, knocking off Warner's own The Suicide Squad, which had held the top spot for the past three weeks. The four-hour epic is a director's cut of the 2017 film Justice League, a film which was completed by an uncredited Joss Whedon when Snyder had to leave the production. Following mixed reviews and poor box office compared to its competitors, fans began petitioning Warner to "release the Snyder Cut" of the film. While it was initially considered to be a pipe dream, Warner announced in February 2020 that the "Snyder Cut" was indeed moving forward and set to debut in 2021 on their HBO Max streaming service, with some $70 million more being spent on visual effects and re-shoots that took place in October 2020. The film premiered on March 18, 2021 and while there's no box office to speak of so far, critical reaction has been more positive than the 2017 version. This week, Zack Snyder's Justice League had an HD share of 85% and 60% of units sold from the 4K UHD format.
Returning to to second place on the Blu-ray chart is the week's top disc seller, Universal Pictures Home Entertainment's F9: The Fast Saga AKA Fast and Furious 9. The ninth main film in the franchise was originally planned for a 2019 release, but was delayed several times, first by the release of a spin-off film, Fast & Furious Presents: Hobbs & Shaw and then by the coronavirus pandemic. to where the film did not get a release until May 2021 internationally and June 2021 domestically. In spite of mixed reviews, the film broke pandemic box office records and has pulled in $173 million domestically and an astounding $543 million internationally, with its $716 million worldwide total making it the second highest-grossing film of 2021, behind only China's Hi, Mom. This week, F9: The Fast Saga sold 92% as many Blu-ray units as Zack Snyder's Justice League, with an HD share of 48% and just 3% of units sold from the 4K UHD format.
Dropping to third place in its fourth week is Warner Bros. Home Entertainment's The Suicide Squad. A follow-up to the 2016 film Suicide Squad, Gunn's film aimed to incorporate some of the previous film's characters in an R-rated adventure with new recruits. While the result was greeted with a positive critical reception, The Suicide Squad opened in July and August to disappointing box office results, grossing just over $167 million worldwide against a budget of $185 million. This week, The Suicide Squad sold 51% as many Blu-ray units as Zack Snyder's Justice League, with an HD share of 50% and 11% of units sold from the 4K UHD format.
Elsewhere on the charts, the week's top new release was Universal Pictures Home Entertainment's Respect, which came in at No. 16 on the Blu-ray chart, with an HD share of 39%. No 4K UHD edition of the title was available.
Source: https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=29657
Not bad for a film that was once thought of as a "pipe dream that didn't exist". Of course, Emmerich and co would probably be seething at the news, since they don't like making money.
Digital agency Home Brew have published a case study report about their social media content rollout plan promoting ZSJL, which resulted in big numbers.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFg-NB0XMAIILXX?format=jpg)
https://homebrewagency.com/projects/case-study/zack-snyder-s-justice-league
In addition to the international branch at WarnerMedia hailing the film as a "global phenomenon" and how it continues to sell extremely well on digital downloads and home video, I think it's safe to say that ZSJL has been resounding success. Despite what the dickheads currently in charge of WB would have you believe.
Variety journalist Owen Gleiberman named ZSJL among his list of best movies of the year, coming in at number eight.
Quote
Twenty-two years into the 21st century, if you're a movie fan chances are you spend more time than you bargained for watching lavishly scaled comic-book franchise action films: those CGI spectacles that are good, bad, or indifferent, and seldom very much more. But Zack Snyder, restoring his four-hour cut of the DC origin story that got bowdlerized (and Whedon-ized) by Warner Bros., creates a superhero movie with a difference. It's a piece of ominous glittering Wagnerian comic-book pop, its superhero backstories unfolding with an imaginative fury, its battles spilling forth with a dark grandeur worthy of Tolkien (not the "LOTR" films, but the dream battles Tolkien wrote on the page), all rendered with an incendiary conviction that sweeps you up and won't let go.
https://variety.com/lists/2021-best-movies/zack-snyders-justice-league-3/
Not bad for a film that was long described as "a pipe dream" by the wretched studio. Now imagine where we would be if it came out back in 2017 as it was supposed to.
Unsurprisingly, ZSJL was acknowledged as the most talked about movie on Twitter for the whole year. It's also the first time Jason Kilar acknowledged it in months, the last time he posted anything about it was a countdown to a trailer back in February.
https://twitter.com/jasonkilar/status/1469017311566774277
Detractors will complain fans have spammed the hashtag, but how else are you supposed to express your desire and excitement for something you want to see?
Even if ZSJL wasn't the most talked about movie of the year, it's real achievement was not only it came out, but the fact it's selling on digital and home video outstandingly well. WarnerMedia international didn't call it a "global phenomenon" for nothing, after all.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 25 Jun 2021, 09:22
Snyder has confirmed they won't release the alternate Joker dialogue on home video.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4p7tMEXMAE5GfJ?format=jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzGkCMkV31E
I saw this video of Snyder implying that alternate Batman-Joker scene was originally what he intended, but Warner Butchers refused to let him add it to the final cut. >:(
https://youtu.be/qVaJfsbHVwE?t=273
The date of this interview must've been taken earlier this year, when ZSJL was coming out. The deleted scene was released in early April.
I always thought this scene with the Robin murder/Death in the Family callback was much superior than the final cut's version of Joker calling Batman's bluff.
YouTuber loudmouth Jeremy Jahns has named ZSJL the best movie of the year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJLsATRgcOE
I don't like Jahns, or any of these supposed YouTube critics. Personally I find his style particularly annoying, and apparently he's a real dickhead because he once wore blackface while reviewing another movie.
But I got to admit, him giving ZSJL this much high praise is a welcome surprise, even went further by admitting to wants the Snyderverse restored. Granted, maybe if he hadn't jumped on the anti-BvS bandwagon back in 2016 and contributed to the narrative, things might've been different. With that said, I heard he recently reviewed BvS Ultimate Edition and gave that high praise too.
If nothing else, ZSJL is a triumph in artistic integrity, despite the studio's efforts in trying to sabotage it. Too bad GL appears to be a sacrificial lamb though.
Sean Chandler is another YouTuber who has followed Jeremy Jahns in calling ZSJL his favourite film of 2021.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyrU6tzGVwU
More significantly, however, was THR assessing each studio's performance throughout 2021, and credited ZSJL as a highlight for WarnerMedia
(https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/43rep_stock-chart_EMBED-warnermedia.jpg)
Quote
March #TheSnyderCut version of Justice League is released on HBO Max: Fans rejoice, subs rise, execs exhale.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/hollywood-2021-highs-and-lower-lows-1235062740/
Too bad WarnerMedia allowed their egos get the better of them and ruined that goodwill since. But you gotta love how THR used Ray Fisher's Cyborg as a choice of picture to pinpoint the high mark on the graph.
ZSJL's success on streaming services wasn't only for HBO Max either.
https://youtu.be/l6KtNe9jMwc
Snyderverse fans spent money on setting up a billboard, right in front of Warners headquarters, I heard.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKm7ZxGWQAQlnZk?format=jpg)
Reminds me of the time when billboards were set up at SDCC 2019.
(https://comicyears.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/D_o60sCXkAAFzfg.jpeg)
On Valentine's Day, Zack wrote this on the anniversary of those ZSJL posters, saying: "I must ride with my knights to defend what was. And the dream of what could be. Happy 214".
https://vero.co/zacksnyder/QS1-NHdks78mxWdcm72prZsd
You can tell that even though he is getting ready to start filming his latest project Rebel Moon, he doesn't want to give up JL arc yet.
While reading this article explaining why ZSJL wasn't eligible for the Oscars Fan Favourite poll on social media, I noticed it mentioned the film was "the fourth most-streamed film of 2021".
https://variety.com/2022/awards/awards/zack-snyder-justice-league-oscars-fan-favorite-1235193141/
There's no source to prove this claim, nor does it specifically mention if it's one of the most streamed titles on HBO Max, in general or if it's in the US or worldwide. The closest data I could find was FlixPatrol, but it says ZSJL is the second most streamed film of 2021 across all HBO platforms worldwide. If anyone doubts the validity of FlixPatrol, I have seen the site referenced in many of the trade articles, so it appears to be legit.
https://flixpatrol.com/top10/hbo/world/2021/full/#hbo-1
Whatever the case may be, it shows the industry is perfectly aware of film's success. I'd say WarnerMedia Europe calling ZSJL a "global phenomenon" is more than just a publicity stunt; people had to be aware of its success despite what the current regime at the Hollywood studio may want you to believe.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/most-talked-about-movies-that-drove-online-buzz-2021-12?r=US&IR=T#here-are-the-top-10-movies-that-earned-the-most-online-engagement-this-year-1
Although this has nothing to do with actual streaming numbers, a data report identified the top ten films with the most audience engagement of 2021, and ZSJL is ranked number four.
(https://i.insider.com/61b7b1f3b8477a0018df8ccc?auto=webp&enable=upscale&fit=crop&format=jpeg&quality=85&width=832&height=624)
In terms of HBO Max, ZSJL is numero uno when it comes to audience engement.
(https://preview.redd.it/a4nia8b7qdl81.jpg?width=1346&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94dbb8aca873f16f8604933d0b219e90cbc5410c)
To quote Ray Fisher's words he said in a tweet a day or so ago, not bad for a film that "didn't exist".
Walter Hamada on ZSJL in 2021: "a cul-de-sac that leads to nowhere".
Zack Snyder on the current state of superhero fatigue:
QuoteOne answer is that the movie business has changed considerably in recent years, as have moviegoers' tastes. Disney's Marvel unit is experiencing an identity crisis amid declining box-office numbers. DC movies such as The Flash and Black Adam—direct descendants of Snyder's films, in both their aesthetic and their casting choices—have likewise flopped. Audiences seem burned out on the turbocharged adventures of comic-book crime fighters; the movies they left their homes to see this year told the stories of a Mattel doll and a nuclear physicist.
"I have the same fatigue," Snyder told me. Comic-book adaptations, he said, are "a cul-de-sac now," no longer interested in, or capable of, telling self-contained stories. "No one thinks they're going to a one-off superhero movie."
https://web.archive.org/web/20231226001629/https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2023/12/zack-snyder-director-movies-rebel-moon/676903/
To celebrate the third anniversary of ZSJL's release, Snyder released a new picture of Knightmare Joker on VERO.
(https://i.imgur.com/EI4DY84.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD1--GoDzkA
Snyder was on Rogan a few days ago. Haven't seen this posted anyplace else. But there it is.
There's some discussion about Snyderverse topics, tho less than you might expect. This is more of a wide-ranging discussion about Snyder's history, personality, etc.
I thought the discussion was enjoyable enough. But those hoping for a protracted discussion about the DCEU may come away disappointed.