Batman-Online.com

Hey guys, it's been a few years since I've frequented these forums. It may even be as long ago as 5 years ago when we were all celebrating the 25th Anniversary.  The hype for the anniversary has me very excited and I felt it was time to think about a new home video release. Ever since Warner Bros released Superman the Movie on 4K Ultra HD, we've been clamoring for them to announce a similar type release for Batman 89, come this spring. I felt they did a good job of a brand new transfer of Superman, a great new Dolby Atmos mix all with it featuring nice new packaging while skimping on giving us any new special features.

If they do a special release, what would you like to see them include?

-DV

The special feature is basically a defunct concept these days.

As it happens, I don't think that's necessarily bad. For one thing, what more can be said that hasn't been said already (repeatedly)?

But for two things... honestly, the older I get, the less I want to know about these things. It's enough for me to have the movie. I suppose a director's commentary might be kind of nice (although, again, we already have that with B89) but if it's not that, I couldn't care less about bonus stuff.

For my own part, this surround sound stuff is starting to get pretty ridiculous. 5.1 was one thing. And it made sense too. But then there was 5.1 EX. Then 6.1. Then 7.1. Now Atmos. It's absurd. How freaking many channels do these people need for cars blowing up?

tl;dr- Get off my lawn.

That's definitely fair Colors. Atmos is amazing in Dolby Cinema and in larger format theaters but not everyone needs that many channels on their home theater setup. Personally, I'll be happy if they give us some new packaging and a nice slipcover with brand new artwork in the vein of how Mondo handles films they're celebrating.

Some new, updated interviews would be great as would the inclusion of vintage Making of a Hero documentary that has been sorely missing from all previous home video releases. 

Welcome back, DarkVengeance!

My wish list for the 40th anniversary release is the same as it was for the 35th. More than anything, I'd like to see some deleted scenes and B-roll footage. In particular I'd love to see the deleted fight scene between Batman and Bob, since that was one of the few fights in the movie that was performed by Keaton himself as opposed to one of his stunt doubles.


It would also be nice to have some up-to-date contributions from Keaton. It's been years since I watched the special features on the old DVD release, but I remember all of his interview clips were taken from the late eighties and early nineties. I'd be keen to hear what he has to say about the film now. His experience working on other superhero-related projects like RoboCop, Birdman and the Spider-Man series might have altered his perspective since those earlier interviews were conducted. And the fact he's just made another film with Burton might've sparked some nostalgia for their previous collaborations.

The only other thing I'd like to see would be a post-Nolan retrospective examining the legacy of the 1989 film. This could highlight ways in which the movie influenced the comics, the animated series and the later films. We've already covered a lot of that stuff on these message boards, but a DVD feature on the subject would nevertheless be appreciated.

If it's going to be anything like the 25th Anniversary where it reportedly played down the film's legacy, including pricks like David Goyer dismissing the film, WB might as well not release anything. WB is a disgrace of a movie studio.

I would like to see the deleted scenes and a new interview with Michael Keaton. Those were the only things I felt were missing from earlier releases. I love the documentary that exists already.

However, I doubt we'll get anything new. We'll probably get a new 4K transfer with only the movie on that disc and the already-existing disc for standard Blu Ray. They'll throw in a Digital Copy and will probably recycle the cover art we've been getting.

Keaton did do a new interview for the 25th Anniversary "Diamond Luxe" Blu-ray, but as stated above that new documentary "Batman: The Birth of the Modern Blockbuster" was not very kind to the film in terms of its legacy. They basically made it about how it shaped the modern blockbuster but acted like the film wasn't of higher quality. It was a pretty disappointing release.

Quote from: DarkVengeance on Tue,  8 Jan  2019, 22:25
Keaton did do a new interview for the 25th Anniversary "Diamond Luxe" Blu-ray, but as stated above that new documentary "Batman: The Birth of the Modern Blockbuster" was not very kind to the film in terms of its legacy. They basically made it about how it shaped the modern blockbuster but acted like the film wasn't of higher quality. It was a pretty disappointing release.

That sounds pretty predictable, actually.

When WB released those special edition DVD's of the 1989-1997 franchise back in 2005, Batman Begins had only just come out in theaters. Its immediate impact and long term legacy were unclear when those materials were assembled. And those special editions took a generally affectionate look back at all four films. Even B&R. The narrative point of view is that all four films were good faith depictions of Batman, love them or hate them.

The 2014 thing coming as it did on the heels of TDKRises, which grossed a billion... yeah, I can see where WB's company line was "Nolan good, everything else stupid".

It's condescending AF but I can see where it makes sense to some jerkface at WB.

Please give us a release with the ORIGINAL poster on the cover, and the original font for the title. This film has one of the greatest movie posters ever made and it's disheartening to see it get replaced by a photoshopped copy.

There are so many deleted scenes and alternative takes filmed that should be included in a new release.  Now is as good a time as any.
I'd also like to see the previous documentaries in HD as apposed to SD.

Quote from: DarkVengeance on Tue,  8 Jan  2019, 22:25
Keaton did do a new interview for the 25th Anniversary "Diamond Luxe" Blu-ray, but as stated above that new documentary "Batman: The Birth of the Modern Blockbuster" was not very kind to the film in terms of its legacy. They basically made it about how it shaped the modern blockbuster but acted like the film wasn't of higher quality. It was a pretty disappointing release.

I've heard about that. It sounded abysmal. When I finally chose to upgrade to upgrade it to Blu Ray, I chose the steelbook edition over the Diamond Luxe.

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Thu, 10 Jan  2019, 13:56
Please give us a release with the ORIGINAL poster on the cover, and the original font for the title. This film has one of the greatest movie posters ever made and it's disheartening to see it get replaced by a photoshopped copy.

I second this. Those "edgier" photoshopped covers are ugly as all get out. It just blows my mind how bad cover art is for classic films. 

It appears that the Burton and Schumacher films are coming to 4K this summer on June 13th, according to this German website. It's great to hear that all of the films will be available at once instead of like last year when only Superman: The Movie was released on the format, whose transfer I have mixed feelings about. None the less, I'm looking forward to the details on this release and hope that some Fantom Event screenings are in the near future.

https://www.4kfilme.de/warner-batman-filme-gremlins-4k-blu-ray/

Warner must have known this was too good to pass up, thus we have an official announcement:
https://www.batman-online.com/news/2019/1/17/batman-anthology-films-to-get-4k-release-this-june?fbclid=IwAR3uNtt3_R_oxYIBoXXke_l0LC6vEA7J7xEmihKNtd42PPRhbju5lcGxUCU

The original Batman series was due for the treatment. I had the DVD anthology for years, and held off on upgrading to BluRay. But it looks like I'll soon have an excuse. I'm not too crazy about special features, since 4K alone is incentive to upgrade. Though the special edition DVDs would be a good starting point. I'm also a sucker for deleted scenes.

Though let's talk about that cover
(https://www.batman-online.com/news/1547731860_batman-4k-blu-ray.jpeg)
First misstep was the large orange title that doesn't match with anything. Next we have the DC logo taking up more than a quarter of the title space and competing for attention with the actual title. I see the trend with companies and franchises is to make a template for their back catalog so there's more continuity, but that usually comes with a cost. Like removing the background and turning the art into a ghastly Photoshop collage. You can see the others here:
https://store.hmv.com/dc/dc-films
Now notice that at least the newer films have their original font design, whereas the older movies in the Batman and Superman series' weren't so lucky. Next, the title covers up the bat symbol on Batman's chest, which is a striking detail to omit. Batman's ears being cut off is just a sloppy design choice.

It's worth noting that this is basically a re-arranged version of the 2016 Walmart re-release
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Batman-Blu-ray/178040/
And while that caught some flack, this was somehow worse in every way. There's no dimension, there's some tacky filter over the characters, and they bumped the saturation up to where Michael Keaton's eyes look unrealistic. That's my little art critic rant. The people who opposed the special edition DVD artworks didn't know what they were in for.

These older films have stunning poster art, and as we know, quality poster art is itself a lost art. But what do we routinely receive instead? Hatchet jobs that have ZERO historical relevance to the film in question.

I can remember when VHS covers would routinely just use the theatrical poster art and no one would think twice about it. DVD covers usually didn't look horrid, but still begged the question why they even tried to remake something that worked. Yet something about the BluRay generation just brings out the worst of the trend. I guess the motivation behind it is that using an older artwork would come across as dated when trying to sell it to a new generation (in theory). But IMHO, I'd prefer artwork that reflects the film's age rather than trying to conform to a style that misrepresents the film. Plus you'll see special edition steelbooks and limited releases that tout exclusive art as a selling point. And it's sad that having cool art is an additional feature as opposed to something that's expected.

Potentially unpopular opinion here, but none of the posters for Batman Returns on were that terrific, but I'd still prefer them to any digital collage. The original Batman on the other hand is so iconic that it shouldn't be messed with.

There was a time when the "art" for a film was the theatrical one-sheet. Beyond being an advertisement for the film, it was generally meant to be regarded as a piece of art itself.

If theatrical exhibition is the only way to absorb cinema, old style theatrical one-sheets are (or can be) very clever and creative ways to sell a movie while also commenting on it somewhat. Need an example? Not for nothing did Superman: The Movie's one-sheet say "You will believe a man can fly" while going to pains to NOT show a man flying. If you want to see that, you'd better buy a ticket for the movie.

Another example is the famous Goonies poster, featuring the children dangling from a stalactite. This concept literally illustrates the adventure, excitement and danger of the movie. It's a good visual expression of what The Goonies is as a film. But for those inclined to bend spoons a bit, the poster shows Brand hanging off the stalactite and the other children forming a chain hanging onto him.

Brand is the closest thing to an a grown up the Goonies have access to for most of the film. He's under orders from his mother to keep Mikey out of trouble. He's also responsible for the safety of Mikey's friends and his own friends. They're all somewhat depending on him to make smart choices. If Brand screws up one iota, everybody is dead. And he's well aware of his responsibility. The poster exemplifies the pressure Brand is under until the climax of the film. It "sells" the film at the same time that it comments on it.

I should say here that Drew Struzan had a thriving career as a poster illustrator. There's a reason for that.

Let's move into the future a bit. From a marketing standpoint, I don't think Blu-Ray covers are meant to be art commenting on a film. In many cases, they're meant to remind would-be customers a movie they have hopefully already seen. At the risk of getting too Get off my lawn, there's less artistry in that. Which is by design. Blu-Ray covers (and I assume the same holds true for latter day DVD covers) are meant to grab attention swift and quick. There's no intention for the cover to comment on the movie in most cases. It's really not necessary. And in some ways, it's undesirable.

Arguably, then, streaming is Blu-Ray covers taken to the ultimate extreme. In most cases, they're little more than thumbnails consisting of publicity photos or perhaps cheesy Photoshop collages. They're meant to be visual cues to would-be viewers as they navigate Netflix, iTunes, Amazon or wherever they choose to watch this stuff. There's literally no room for these glorified thumbnails to say much else besides "Here's a character or two, watch the movie!"

Good? Bad? Hard to say but I must admit that I do miss the old style theatrical one sheets.

Please don't let that be the cover art. Guess I've lost the right to complain about the Blu-Ray cover. The cover for Superman: The Movie on 4K piqued my interests for what Batman's cover could be, this is the worst case scenario. Even worse, it still carries over that terrible font from the Blu-Ray.

I'm hearing rumblings that Best Buy will be doing steelbooks of these releases so those upset about the artwork, there's still hope. I don't know where that artwork came from but I've also heard it may not be the final cover. It's weird WB would do this considering they gave a pretty great new cover for last years 40th Anniversary 4K UHD of Superman.

Now that you've brought up Superman, I think there's still hope. We went from this...
(https://images.store.hmv.com/app_/responsive/HMVStore/media/product/640093/01-640093.jpg?w=500)
To this
(https://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/products/6303/6303625_sa.jpg;maxHeight=640;maxWidth=550)

That's a cover worthy of the Man of Steel.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 18 Jan  2019, 03:31
Let's move into the future a bit. From a marketing standpoint, I don't think Blu-Ray covers are meant to be art commenting on a film. In many cases, they're meant to remind would-be customers a movie they have hopefully already seen. At the risk of getting too Get off my lawn, there's less artistry in that. Which is by design. Blu-Ray covers (and I assume the same holds true for latter day DVD covers) are meant to grab attention swift and quick. There's no intention for the cover to comment on the movie in most cases. It's really not necessary. And in some ways, it's undesirable.

Arguably, then, streaming is Blu-Ray covers taken to the ultimate extreme. In most cases, they're little more than thumbnails consisting of publicity photos or perhaps cheesy Photoshop collages. They're meant to be visual cues to would-be viewers as they navigate Netflix, iTunes, Amazon or wherever they choose to watch this stuff. There's literally no room for these glorified thumbnails to say much else besides "Here's a character or two, watch the movie!"

That seems to answer why BluRay covers have degenerated beyond the initial DVD era. Most DVD art would still try to somewhat explain and sell a movie through the cover, while BluRay boils it down to a few characters... which is conspicuously like a streaming platform tactic. It's dumbed down marketing, but apparently it works.

Quote from: Slash Man on Thu, 17 Jan  2019, 16:12
Though let's talk about that cover
(https://www.batman-online.com/news/1547731860_batman-4k-blu-ray.jpeg)

I may be wrong, but it looks like that image of Batman was based on a Hot Toys action figure rather than an actual photograph of Michael Keaton.

(https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/3/34651/3076006-7894.jpg)

Looks like a composite of old photos from this moment in the alley. So far the only official cover to be based on Hot Toys was "Return of the Caped Crusaders" which was pretty embarrassing. The Batman vs Two-Face followup had a cool original illustration though. These are old streaming/itunes things like said above, whoever made it just turned the 2005 typeface orange. The superman 4k cover used a vintage style logo.

(https://discographyprinceestate.global.ssl.fastly.net/storage/album/11/regular_hero_image-23275d8d3e9fdca21886e522f6dba884.png)

I'm just really hoping that on top of this artwork being temporary, WB does put some effort into new extras. It sounds like this IS getting a new Dolby Atmos mix so I feel the positives outweigh the negatives when it comes to technical aspects.

Quote from: Slash Man on Thu, 17 Jan  2019, 16:12
(https://www.batman-online.com/news/1547731860_batman-4k-blu-ray.jpeg)

I noticed the Joker on the cover is a retouched illustration of Kenner's action figure wrapping for the movie. Talk about laziness.

(https://gofigureactionfigures.com/media/skyescapejoker.jpg)

Speaking of action figures, I had that toy but I never knew you could dip in water to change the face's colour.

^I just realised that sketch of Joker is actually based on this photo, from the scene where he shot Carl Grissom to death.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/41/60/d2/4160d2d9b4c1045b7f7beb26fefb931a.png)

If you're going to show the characters on the front cover of a home video release, just use the real photographs.

Man, I hope they don't use that cover.

Quote from: Slash Man on Fri, 18 Jan  2019, 03:12
DVD covers usually didn't look horrid, but still begged the question why they even tried to remake something that worked. Yet something about the BluRay generation just brings out the worst of the trend.

I feel like DVD is when film art plummeted. For example, the photoshopped Star Wars covers ignoring the brilliant theatrical posters while trying to recreate the feel of those better images with a sloppy cast assembly culled from production stills. All of which to simulate uniformity, which had already been present in Struzan's work for the series.

Although, I seem to recall a few instances when even the VHS switched out great art for an awful cover. For example, Last Action Hero had an adventurous one sheet, with Schwarzenegger flying out of the big screen, holding on to a helicopter. The VHS was just a boring still of Arnold holding a gun. This is also when they started to drop all of the great James Bond posters for poorly photoshopped stills of the various Bonds photoshopped in front of pivotal scenes and environments.

Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Sun, 20 Jan  2019, 20:08
Man, I hope they don't use that cover.

Quote from: Slash Man on Fri, 18 Jan  2019, 03:12
DVD covers usually didn't look horrid, but still begged the question why they even tried to remake something that worked. Yet something about the BluRay generation just brings out the worst of the trend.

I feel like DVD is when film art plummeted. For example, the photoshopped Star Wars covers ignoring the brilliant theatrical posters while trying to recreate the feel of those better images with a sloppy cast assembly culled from production stills. All of which to simulate uniformity, which had already been present in Struzan's work for the series.

Although, I seem to recall a few instances when even the VHS switched out great art for an awful cover. For example, Last Action Hero had an adventurous one sheet, with Schwarzenegger flying out of the big screen, holding on to a helicopter. The VHS was just a boring still of Arnold holding a gun. This is also when they started to drop all of the great James Bond posters for poorly photoshopped stills of the various Bonds photoshopped in front of pivotal scenes and environments.

With respect, I understand your point but I don't think I agree.

Putting aside whether anybody loves the movie, comparing the Episode 1 DVD cover to the same's theatrical poster pretty well explains the intent behind changing the cover for DVD made a lot of sense.

The theatrical poster was intended to maintain the tradition of the original trilogy's one sheets while also suggesting the threat posed by Darth Maul (Is he the titular Phantom Menace?, a passerby might wonder) behind a collage which positions Anakin in the center. As visual summations go, leave it Drew Struzan to hit the nail exactly on the head. Love or hate the movie like I say, but I can't knock the poster too much. That one sheet is next door neighbors with Almost Flawless.

That is (or was) the main job for a theatrical one sheet.

But DVD covers (and, I suppose, Blu-Ray covers) have a different task. They have to stand out on a shelf of merchandise. Ideally, the major elements of the movie should be visually represented on a DVD cover prominently enough to be visible to a would-be customer standing several feet away. Now, I could knock the DVD somewhat for minimizing Queen Amidala on the cover (she has a major role in the movie), over-emphasizing Obi-Wan (his role is smaller than the Queen) and omitting Darth Maul entirely. But they only have so much space to work with so maybe Maul's absence isn't such a big deal.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3793.0;attach=477;image)

And yet, the DVD cover uses a lot of the same basic elements as the one sheet: same portraits for Queen Amidala, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. Plus, the Star Wars logo is big and prominent, eye-catching to passing shoppers. So it's not a total loss. A rather competent DVD cover, all things considered.

Speaking of the the theatrical one sheet as a DVD cover though...

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3793.0;attach=479;image)

Forgive the crudeness of that custom cover but it was the best I could find that wasn't massive resolution.

All the details I mentioned above would be much harder to see had the one sheet been used for the DVD. It would've been a visual banquet for anybody who knew nothing about Episode 1 and picked the DVD off the shelf. What are the odds of nobody having ever seen it though, right? But anyway, a close examination of the one sheet as a DVD cover would've uncovered so many small details.

But that's the thing, they're small details, virtually invisible from more than a few feet away. No good for DVD covers.

In the final analysis, did video kill the theatrical one sheet (in addition to the radio star)?

True. It's probably fairer for me to say that there are times when home video art is efficient and time when it's pretty terrible. The prequel covers weren't so bad. The original films DVDs were the culprits I was thinking of and upon reflection, it all comes down to the quality of work, not the intention. Recently, Universal re-issued the first three Jurassic Park films with cover art that reflected the look Jurassic World's marketing. It's all about uniformity in the brand, but the execution was odd. Especially on the first film, which featured a weird choice in how Grant and the T-Rex are posed.

With what you're saying, I've always found the artwork that best pops from shelf are the simplistic ones. Recently, there's been a trend of re-issuing films with just a single character's face and the title. The better examples include the Star Wars steelbooks and a number of Disney/Pixar films. This is why the poster for Batman (and likewise, Ghostbusters and Jurassic Park) worked so well. It was simple, used effective iconography that stood out amongst other images and immediately caught the onlooker's attention while also perfectly encapsulating what the film was about.

Either way, I'm splitting hairs. I want the artwork, new or old, to be good. But the presentation and preservation of the film itself is what matters most. I'm excited these films are coming to 4K.

Quite true. But sometimes you'd get oddities with the DVD covers. The 2006 re-release of the original trilogy (which included the unaltered movies in crappy quality) is a good example. The covers intentionally emulated theatrical one sheets. The effect was... interesting.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3793.0;attach=481;image)

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3793.0;attach=483;image)

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3793.0;attach=485;image)

It's up to you how attractive those covers are. There's no accounting for taste. But I at least appreciated the fact that someone at Lucasfilm was thinking far enough ahead to tie the one sheet replication thing with the unaltered trilogy re-release. Gives the DVD's a sort of interesting internal consistency. The menus were animated recreations of original theatrical one sheets, which was another nice touch.

One thing I liked about the 2006 release was that the posters they emulated appeared on the back. Something similar was done with the steelbook Blu-Ray editions and the result was pretty slick.

Speaking of those Star Wars steelbooks, I wouldn't mind seeing something similar with the Burton/Schumacher films using the villains.

Interesting to bring Star Wars up, because despite the trend of inferior home release covers those ones still obeyed basic design principles and were visually interesting. Yes, something I neglected to consider was the size and ratio difference you deal with when converting to DVD/BluRay cover. The criticized Force Awakens poster art was actually used for the home release, and the issues with how clustered it is become compounded when you shrink down the art further. The whole 2006 DVDs replicating the poster art with a digital collage seems purely like an attempt at "modernizing" it.

With the rest of the films excluded, the classic bat symbol art of the original is just perfect for all mediums. I completely forgot that the VHS cover didn't even have any words on the cover. That was a bold move.

Quote from: Slash Man on Thu, 24 Jan  2019, 06:27
I completely forgot that the VHS cover didn't even have any words on the cover. That was a bold move.

That was the great thing about that marketing. It didn't need words.

Personally, my favorite posters for the series are all four logo posters. The snowy bat symbol, The Riddler's question mark using it as the dot, Robin's symbol overlaying Batman's, they were incredible.

I agree. Although the next "logo" posters were only used as teaser posters for the next films, it was a wise move for the DVDs to bring back the motif and create a sense of consistency.

Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Fri, 25 Jan  2019, 14:41

Quote from: Slash Man on Thu, 24 Jan  2019, 06:27
I completely forgot that the VHS cover didn't even have any words on the cover. That was a bold move.

That was the great thing about that marketing. It didn't need words.

Personally, my favorite posters for the series are all four logo posters. The snowy bat symbol, The Riddler's question mark using it as the dot, Robin's symbol overlaying Batman's, they were incredible.

Returns has some underrated posters. The teaser's awesome, and I've always loved the Bat-Symbol entrenched in snow.

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sat, 26 Jan  2019, 09:11
Returns has some underrated posters. The teaser's awesome, and I've always loved the Bat-Symbol entrenched in snow.

It compliments B89's poster beautifully. They even included a version of it in the trailers and as a kid in 1992, I went into the theater fully expecting to see it as the main title sequence, much like 89's.

At the same time, I'm happy it wasn't.

I've always interpreted the teaser posters for BR, BF and B&R to be an acknowledgement of how powerful the B89 poster was. So powerful, in fact, that the concept was never fully abandoned for the subsequent sequels.

That's one hell of a piece of graphic design if it endures across four different movies spread out over an eight year period.

Of the bunch, I think the BR teaser is probably my favorite variation on the original. The B89 reigns supreme but the BR teaser is the best of the follow-ups.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 26 Jan  2019, 17:57
I've always interpreted the teaser posters for BR, BF and B&R to be an acknowledgement of how powerful the B89 poster was. So powerful, in fact, that the concept was never fully abandoned for the subsequent sequels.

That's one hell of a piece of graphic design if it endures across four different movies spread out over an eight year period.

Of the bunch, I think the BR teaser is probably my favorite variation on the original. The B89 reigns supreme but the BR teaser is the best of the follow-ups.

It extended beyond the original four films. If I remember correctly the teasers for the Nolan films were just the logo, along with Batman v Superman.

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sat, 26 Jan  2019, 20:03
It extended beyond the original four films. If I remember correctly the teasers for the Nolan films were just the logo, along with Batman v Superman.

TDK had that poster where Joker's face was spray painted onto a brick wall and the bat symbol was his lips. TDKR had the city crumbling and the negative space in the middle formed the logo. I swear there was a teaser poster for BB with just the bat symbol, but it may have just been a logo reveal and not an actual one sheet.

Also, I just realized I made an error regarding BF's teaser poster. The bat symbol was the dot when the question appears in the sky during the actual film, but on the poster, it appears on the inside of the question mark. 

Quote from: GoNerdYourself on Sun, 27 Jan  2019, 02:26

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sat, 26 Jan  2019, 20:03
It extended beyond the original four films. If I remember correctly the teasers for the Nolan films were just the logo, along with Batman v Superman.

TDK had that poster where Joker's face was spray painted onto a brick wall and the bat symbol was his lips. TDKR had the city crumbling and the negative space in the middle formed the logo. I swear there was a teaser poster for BB with just the bat symbol, but it may have just been a logo reveal and not an actual one sheet.

Also, I just realized I made an error regarding BF's teaser poster. The bat symbol was the dot when the question appears in the sky during the actual film, but on the poster, it appears on the inside of the question mark.

I thought there was a teaser poster for The Dark Knight that had the cracked logo, but I can't seem to find it.

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Mon, 28 Jan  2019, 03:07
I thought there was a teaser poster for The Dark Knight that had the cracked logo, but I can't seem to find it.

I am not saying you're wrong, but I can't find it. I know it was used for the teaser trailer and there might've been a promotional image featuring a still from that.

The only posters I remember for TDK are Joker writing "Why So Serious?" in blood, the aforementioned graffiti poster, the Fight Club-esque images of Batman at the windows of his apartment building and the Project Mayhem-like fiery bat symbol burning on the side of a building, Joker in the streets, the individual character posters, and the Bat Pod poster.

http://www.jakpost.travel/imgfiles/full/110/1107493/dark-knight-rises-wallpaper.jpg

https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-5/dark-knight-rises-cracked-glass-logo-transparent.png

These were wallpapers and other digital promo materials rather than official teaser posters. But here they are anyway...

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sat, 26 Jan  2019, 20:03
It extended beyond the original four films. If I remember correctly the teasers for the Nolan films were just the logo, along with Batman v Superman.

You're completely right, the Dark Knight Trilogy really capitalized on this - especially with the release of complete boxsets.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1721/0555/products/136743_large.jpg?v=1518731118)
Yeah, I think we can trace that simplicity back to B89.

I'm sick to death of bat-logos used over and over again for this movie's cover. Time to open the archives of photoshoots and do some restoration. Every movie in the batman series has its own identity, why not reflect that on the covers.

So how long before street date did Warner wait for a press release announcement for Donner's superman 4k? Did they release it in the fall because of the theatrical release date or for stocking stuffer reasons? When they did 30th anniversary Beetlejuice showings they ignored that it was originally released in spring, capitalizing on spooktober, increasing the likelihood of attendance.

Quote from: Furstmobile on Tue,  5 Feb  2019, 14:55
I'm sick to death of bat-logos used over and over again for this movie's cover. Time to open the archives of photoshoots and do some restoration. Every movie in the batman series has its own identity, why not reflect that on the covers.

The original theatrical posters were intended to sell each individual movie. But generally, there isn't a consistent theme or design to tie the movie posters together.

These newer covers preserve the continuity the movies are intended to have with one another while hitting upon familiar (and popular!) iconography. It's an intelligent design choice, I'd say.

Plus, the original Burtonverse having variations on the B89 poster as their covers while the Nolan trilogy uses the BB emblem in different contexts distinguishes one movie series from the other. The respective bat-symbols look different from each other because the movies those symbols represent are separate from each other. Again, a wise design decision.

According to information over at blu-ray.com, the release date for the 4K Ultra HD of Batman 1989 will be on 6/4/19. I'm shocked that WB has yet to provide an official announcement.

It would've been lovely if they set June 23, 2019 as the release date for the thirtieth anniversary Blu-Ray. You know, for old time's sake.

I understand why that's impossible though.

It's official!

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1352.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq660%2FJwsherwood83%2F820462BB-A5BC-4B7A-939C-26957BE2C1CF_zpsn4qv6h1i.jpg&hash=40ab10639d422633fd6919f4434d73b9c5f07daf) (http://s1352.photobucket.com/user/Jwsherwood83/media/820462BB-A5BC-4B7A-939C-26957BE2C1CF_zpsn4qv6h1i.jpg.html)

God it's far worse than we could've imagined. They took what they already had and somehow made it worse. This is why I hate simultaneous/box set releases, total sacrifice of identity for constancy's sake. The white skyline at the bottom of their packaging has nothing to do with the cities in any of the movies. The streaming versions at least bothered to get the Burton cities right.

Quote from: Furstmobile on Tue,  2 Apr  2019, 22:13
God it's far worse than we could've imagined. They took what they already had and somehow made it worse. This is why I hate simultaneous/box set releases, total sacrifice of identity for constancy's sake. The white skyline at the bottom of their packaging has nothing to do with the cities in any of the movies. The streaming versions at least bothered to get the Burton cities right.

I'm tired of people trying to do their take on the cover. Just put the poster on there! The DVD set from 2005 is the only set that got that right.

This is the trend right now, sadly.

Still, I don't understand why everybody is so mad about it. The actual Blu-Ray is what matters. If the cover bothers you, that's easy to fix. You can probably find (or create) a custom Blu-Ray cover lickey-split, don't have a fit.

This is good news, y'all.

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Thu,  4 Apr  2019, 00:31

Quote from: Furstmobile on Tue,  2 Apr  2019, 22:13
God it's far worse than we could've imagined. They took what they already had and somehow made it worse. This is why I hate simultaneous/box set releases, total sacrifice of identity for constancy's sake. The white skyline at the bottom of their packaging has nothing to do with the cities in any of the movies. The streaming versions at least bothered to get the Burton cities right.

I'm tired of people trying to do their take on the cover. Just put the poster on there! The DVD set from 2005 is the only set that got that right.

I'm more curious to see what the film looks like in 4K, considering its age. If the picture quality will be much different to the Blu-ray.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu,  4 Apr  2019, 12:52

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Thu,  4 Apr  2019, 00:31

Quote from: Furstmobile on Tue,  2 Apr  2019, 22:13
God it's far worse than we could've imagined. They took what they already had and somehow made it worse. This is why I hate simultaneous/box set releases, total sacrifice of identity for constancy's sake. The white skyline at the bottom of their packaging has nothing to do with the cities in any of the movies. The streaming versions at least bothered to get the Burton cities right.

I'm tired of people trying to do their take on the cover. Just put the poster on there! The DVD set from 2005 is the only set that got that right.

I'm more curious to see what the film looks like in 4K, considering its age. If the picture quality will be much different to the Blu-ray.

I guarantee it will be a BIG difference. The previous Blu and DVD were from a dated master. I'm hearing that they may be using the original master used from the Laserdisc (which most fans say is the most accurate depiction of 89 that's available for home video format). Hopefully they fix the contrast and brightness issues that 89 and BR had.

Time will tell, but I'm excited!

I was under the impression that new masters were struck for that huge 2005 release.

Frankly, I hope they don't use those first-run DVD masters. The colors were goofed up and small object detail in those late 90's-era DVD masters was shoddy... even by late 90's standards. And then, of course, several of the movies were misframed.

All in all, those are probably not masters WB should want to go back to and certainly not for a 4k release.

The masters for those 2005-era DVD's were great though. Not sure that they're 4k-friendly. But they look amazing even now and WB spent a pretty penny remastering B89 and BR with brand new Dolby and DTS 5.1 surround tracks.

I've never understood the knocks people have against the 2005 DVD collection. That was a superior, very high quality product by any sane standard.

Some smart design choices, and some not-so-smart. I think the use of a color scheme is a step in the right direction. And the buildings were interesting at first, but it's very clear when they aren't from the film. The fact that they used the same cityscape unifies all the designs in a not-so-good way.

Rear cover. No new features by the looks of it. Also not sure if the feaures are still in 480i.
(https://www.batman-online.com/images/thumbs/1554462680.jpg)
Click on thumbnail (https://www.batman-online.com/gallery/5671/4k-set-rear-cover-batman)

Quote from: DarkVengeance on Thu,  4 Apr  2019, 22:10

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu,  4 Apr  2019, 12:52

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Thu,  4 Apr  2019, 00:31

Quote from: Furstmobile on Tue,  2 Apr  2019, 22:13
God it's far worse than we could've imagined. They took what they already had and somehow made it worse. This is why I hate simultaneous/box set releases, total sacrifice of identity for constancy's sake. The white skyline at the bottom of their packaging has nothing to do with the cities in any of the movies. The streaming versions at least bothered to get the Burton cities right.

I'm tired of people trying to do their take on the cover. Just put the poster on there! The DVD set from 2005 is the only set that got that right.

I'm more curious to see what the film looks like in 4K, considering its age. If the picture quality will be much different to the Blu-ray.

I guarantee it will be a BIG difference. The previous Blu and DVD were from a dated master. I'm hearing that they may be using the original master used from the Laserdisc (which most fans say is the most accurate depiction of 89 that's available for home video format). Hopefully they fix the contrast and brightness issues that 89 and BR had.

Time will tell, but I'm excited!

I hope so. Last year's Superman the movie 4K release was a big disappointment for me. The picture offered little to no improvement. Un large part to Unsworth's fuzzy purposeful sloft cinematic style.

Fathom Events finally got back to me on Facebook in regards to the upcoming theatrical presentations of the first four Batman films.


(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1352.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq660%2FJwsherwood83%2F6C951055-71EB-4DAB-B5B8-F17E2E6F85A5_zpsu1wziglv.jpg&hash=bdc21125161a3a7c94a70428570f53de257d0baf) (http://s1352.photobucket.com/user/Jwsherwood83/media/6C951055-71EB-4DAB-B5B8-F17E2E6F85A5_zpsu1wziglv.jpg.html)

Very exciting. I got tix for Batman, Batman Forever, and Batman & Robin.

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Wed, 10 Apr  2019, 09:18
Very exciting. I got tix for Batman, Batman Forever, and Batman & Robin.

Looks like you're missing one. :D

Wouldn't mind seeing Batman Returns in the theater, since I've seen Batman 1989 as apart of some retro screenings about 4 times since 2015. However, the 4 hour drive and probably having to get scheduled off work is most likely going to put some brakes on any such plans.

Just saw the fathom event it is darker and more bluer. There is a new sound mix with alot of new modern sound effects and added sound effects. Guns now sound modern. The score was remixed and sound like lalaland but sounded good.

(https://i.postimg.cc/gx401kBV/20190504-160753.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gx401kBV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yD7dfSn6/20190504-160756.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yD7dfSn6)

I went to my local Fathom event to see it too. There was some new music in Vicki's apartment when Bruce was having trouble telling her that he's Batman. It wasn't "The Truth", just something that I had NEVER heard before.

Quote from: GBglide on Sun,  5 May  2019, 00:21
I went to my local Fathom event to see it too. There was some new music in Vicki's apartment when Bruce was having trouble telling her that he's Batman. It wasn't "The Truth", just something that I had NEVER heard before.

Despite there being various problems with the new sound mix, there wasn't any new music in that scene.

I think the music is more pronounced so the music que is heard better, cause I noticed it as well

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun,  5 May  2019, 00:42
I think the music is more pronounced so the music que is heard better, cause I noticed it as well

If you're referring to the Beautiful Dreamer, it's always been there. It's part of that particular recording.

Quote from: Kamdan on Sun,  5 May  2019, 00:53

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun,  5 May  2019, 00:42
I think the music is more pronounced so the music que is heard better, cause I noticed it as well

If you're referring to the Beautiful Dreamer, it's always been there. It's part of that particular recording.

Correct, I feel like this mix tho, that the music it turned up a bit more. I checked the clip on youtube and it's definitely lower in the bluray mix

It wasn't "Beautiful Dreamer", I swear there was something new in there.

Quote from: GBglide on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:08
It wasn't "Beautiful Dreamer", I swear there was something new in there.

Was it the music you hear in the first 30 seconds here?

https://youtu.be/Fi5k0FSRyzo

Quote from: Kamdan on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:18

Quote from: GBglide on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:08
It wasn't "Beautiful Dreamer", I swear there was something new in there.

Was it the music you hear in the first 30 seconds here?

https://youtu.be/Fi5k0FSRyzo

I think it's the part at 13 seconds..its alot more prevalent in the new mix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mxGGCT1HJA

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:20

Quote from: Kamdan on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:18

Quote from: GBglide on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:08
It wasn't "Beautiful Dreamer", I swear there was something new in there.

Was it the music you hear in the first 30 seconds here?

https://youtu.be/Fi5k0FSRyzo

I think it's the part at 13 seconds..its alot more prevalent in the new mix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mxGGCT1HJA

Yeah, that's always been in there. Music definitely benefited with the remix.

Quote from: Kamdan on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:18

Quote from: GBglide on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:08
It wasn't "Beautiful Dreamer", I swear there was something new in there.

Was it the music you hear in the first 30 seconds here?

https://youtu.be/Fi5k0FSRyzo

I think it was the part at 1:35 - 1:50.  I've never heard that part used before.
https://youtu.be/Fi5k0FSRyzo?t=95

Quote from: GBglide on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:29

Quote from: Kamdan on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:18

Quote from: GBglide on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:08
It wasn't "Beautiful Dreamer", I swear there was something new in there.

Was it the music you hear in the first 30 seconds here?

https://youtu.be/Fi5k0FSRyzo

I think it was the part at 1:35 - 1:50.  I've never heard that part used before.
https://youtu.be/Fi5k0FSRyzo?t=95

That part is heard pretty clearly in the original mix when Bruce steps out and The Joker sees him and goes "Well, Miss Vale... another rooster in the henhouse."

Just got out the screening and it was awesome! This movie has never looked this good. The cinematography not being so bright helped hide some of the special effects a bit better. When the Batmobile is driving itself you can't see a hand on the steering wheel for example. I liked the new soundtrack. I've always had a problem with how weak the guns and punches have sounded but these new effects fixed all that. Now if you're a purist you probably won't like the new mix. The only sound effects I was iffy on were the ones for the Batwing. I've always liked how quiet the Batwing was. It makes complete sense from a tactical standpoint. However, with the new sound effects it almost seems like you could hear the Batwing coming from miles away. Other than that I'm very happy with the transfer. I also liked how vibrant the Joker looked.

Quote from: Kamdan on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:32

Quote from: GBglide on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:29

Quote from: Kamdan on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:18

Quote from: GBglide on Sun,  5 May  2019, 01:08
It wasn't "Beautiful Dreamer", I swear there was something new in there.

Was it the music you hear in the first 30 seconds here?

https://youtu.be/Fi5k0FSRyzo

I think it was the part at 1:35 - 1:50.  I've never heard that part used before.
https://youtu.be/Fi5k0FSRyzo?t=95

That part is heard pretty clearly in the original mix when Bruce steps out and The Joker sees him and goes "Well, Miss Vale... another rooster in the henhouse."

You're right, it is. But really thought I could hear it earlier. The regular Blu-Ray just has silence when Bruce is trying to explain...

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat,  4 May  2019, 23:40
Just saw the fathom event it is darker and more bluer. There is a new sound mix with alot of new modern sound effects and added sound effects. Guns now sound modern. The score was remixed and sound like lalaland but sounded good.

(https://i.postimg.cc/gx401kBV/20190504-160753.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gx401kBV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yD7dfSn6/20190504-160756.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yD7dfSn6)

When you say a NEW SOUND MIX are you saying they've re-recorded new content for the film, and simply not enhanced what was already there, eg. making it sound clearer? Surely that's all they've done. Because if not, this is a huge change in the history of B89. We'd be getting into George Lucas territory.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun,  5 May  2019, 02:41

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat,  4 May  2019, 23:40
Just saw the fathom event it is darker and more bluer. There is a new sound mix with alot of new modern sound effects and added sound effects. Guns now sound modern. The sheilds on the Batmobile have an added metallic sound, spark sound effects are added in alot of places and the grappling hook has added metalic sounds and well as the Balloon Ropes when they get attached to the Batman wing (to name a few) The score was remixed and sound like lalaland but sounded good.

(https://i.postimg.cc/gx401kBV/20190504-160753.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gx401kBV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yD7dfSn6/20190504-160756.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yD7dfSn6)

When you say a NEW SOUND MIX are you saying they’ve re-recorded new content for the film, and simply not enhanced what was already there, eg. making it sound clearer? Surely that’s all they’ve done. Because if not, this is a huge change in the history of B89. We’d be getting into George Lucas territory.

All the gun sounds are new, there are very few of the old sounds that can be heard. Batman has alot of cape swooshes and extra sounds to stuff that didnt have sounds before, like the photo taking "click" sound and TV buzz.

This scene has a bit more oomph too it, espeshally the second hit to the head..if someone esle posts more clips (especially with gun shots) i'll post them here
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxDpmnGlrXH/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Original:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzcESaZle-c

Well, if that's the case, I can't say I'm on board with the decision. I think remastering should be about improving the quality of what is ALREADY THERE, not introducing original elements that have no prior history with the product in question.

Whether adding new effects is right or wrong is up for debate. However, there were a few scenes in here that were improved due to the new soundtrack. Both Axis chemicals sequences (Police Raid/Batmobile explosion) felt more intense.

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sun,  5 May  2019, 17:53
Whether adding new effects is right or wrong is up for debate. However, there were a few scenes in here that were improved due to the new soundtrack. Both Axis chemicals sequences (Police Raid/Batmobile explosion) felt more intense.

It's been perfectly intense to me for the last 30 years. It's really annoying how now suddenly everyone has a problem with those gunfire sound effects, complete with the ricocheting noises, all of which have been completely purged from the new sound mix. I've heard people say that it sounds too much like a cartoon. To me, it sounds like a movie and that fits the world of Batman '89 that heightened reality.

Putting in noises that are more fitting for Nolan's realistic version gives it less of a distinctive identity. You wouldn't put Dirty Harry's Magnum sound effect in The Dark Knight or hear a power loader from Aliens for Nolan's Batmobile. It was annoying how over the years Warners has tried to make Photoshopped images to make this film look more like the Nolan films. Now they've crossed a major line trying to make it sound like one.

One of the after-mentioned additions was hearing the new sounds of the Batwing. This is not a functional flying machine in real life. It's a complete fantasy that is believable in this world. For this new sound mix, they got to add new noises that take away the stealth nature the original gave it. When it crashes and burns, they had to add the sound of the engine going out, sounding as though someone had shut off a vacuum cleaner. It's just there to sell the idea that this is real. That was never a complaint from those who loved this movie for the last three decades.

Although this new sound mix is just to add a bit extra for those with the new Dolby Atmos system and we'll be able to view the film with the original sound mix when the new Blu-ray comes out, it just makes me upset that now whenever I go see this film at the theater, it's gonna be this one with the new sound. I counted this last screening as my 11th time seeing it in a theater and each time was a thrilling and euphoric experience, always reassuring me why this is my all-time favorite film. Someday the new mix might grow on me, as I had to when it came to what was done for Superman: The Movie, but 30 years of a attachment is hard to let go.

My sister accidentally recorded a part of the film, the video was black, so I synced it with youtube clips. It's just to give an idea what the new sound effects are for those who don't have screenings. I wish more clips were put onto instagram, like the new shield sounds

https://youtu.be/MEZszUKl4vg

also as a bonus, sampling of the Laserdisc audio :D https://youtu.be/rkmGhBQAyyM

Good work on the clips! The City Hall massacre scene reminds me that there was a bit of audio in the scene that was either extremely quiet or not even there at all in the original mix. It occurs after Knox asks Vinnie "Did you do a little time as children?" and as Vicki is prepping her camera. The new mix has more dialogue from either Vinnie or the lawyer.

Quote from: Kamdan on Sun,  5 May  2019, 21:16

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sun,  5 May  2019, 17:53
Whether adding new effects is right or wrong is up for debate. However, there were a few scenes in here that were improved due to the new soundtrack. Both Axis chemicals sequences (Police Raid/Batmobile explosion) felt more intense.

It's been perfectly intense to me for the last 30 years. It's really annoying how now suddenly everyone has a problem with those gunfire sound effects, complete with the ricocheting noises, all of which have been completely purged from the new sound mix. I've heard people say that it sounds too much like a cartoon. To me, it sounds like a movie and that fits the world of Batman '89 that heightened reality.

Putting in noises that are more fitting for Nolan's realistic version gives it less of a distinctive identity. You wouldn't put Dirty Harry's Magnum sound effect in The Dark Knight or hear a power loader from Aliens for Nolan's Batmobile. It was annoying how over the years Warners has tried to make Photoshopped images to make this film look more like the Nolan films. Now they've crossed a major line trying to make it sound like one.

One of the after-mentioned additions was hearing the new sounds of the Batwing. This is not a functional flying machine in real life. It's a complete fantasy that is believable in this world. For this new sound mix, they got to add new noises that take away the stealth nature the original gave it. When it crashes and burns, they had to add the sound of the engine going out, sounding as though someone had shut off a vacuum cleaner. It's just there to sell the idea that this is real. That was never a complaint from those who loved this movie for the last three decades.

Although this new sound mix is just to add a bit extra for those with the new Dolby Atmos system and we'll be able to view the film with the original sound mix when the new Blu-ray comes out, it just makes me upset that now whenever I go see this film at the theater, it's gonna be this one with the new sound. I counted this last screening as my 11th time seeing it in a theater and each time was a thrilling and euphoric experience, always reassuring me why this is my all-time favorite film. Someday the new mix might grow on me, as I had to when it came to what was done for Superman: The Movie, but 30 years of a attachment is hard to let go.

I'm seeing people say that using that soundtrack was a stylistic choice. However, if that's the case then why would Batman Returns opt to use more realistic sound effects even though it also takes place in a heightened reality?

Quote from: Kamdan on Sun,  5 May  2019, 21:16

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sun,  5 May  2019, 17:53
Whether adding new effects is right or wrong is up for debate. However, there were a few scenes in here that were improved due to the new soundtrack. Both Axis chemicals sequences (Police Raid/Batmobile explosion) felt more intense.

It's been perfectly intense to me for the last 30 years. It's really annoying how now suddenly everyone has a problem with those gunfire sound effects, complete with the ricocheting noises, all of which have been completely purged from the new sound mix. I've heard people say that it sounds too much like a cartoon. To me, it sounds like a movie and that fits the world of Batman '89 that heightened reality.

Putting in noises that are more fitting for Nolan's realistic version gives it less of a distinctive identity. You wouldn't put Dirty Harry's Magnum sound effect in The Dark Knight or hear a power loader from Aliens for Nolan's Batmobile. It was annoying how over the years Warners has tried to make Photoshopped images to make this film look more like the Nolan films. Now they've crossed a major line trying to make it sound like one.

One of the after-mentioned additions was hearing the new sounds of the Batwing. This is not a functional flying machine in real life. It's a complete fantasy that is believable in this world. For this new sound mix, they got to add new noises that take away the stealth nature the original gave it. When it crashes and burns, they had to add the sound of the engine going out, sounding as though someone had shut off a vacuum cleaner. It's just there to sell the idea that this is real. That was never a complaint from those who loved this movie for the last three decades.

Although this new sound mix is just to add a bit extra for those with the new Dolby Atmos system and we'll be able to view the film with the original sound mix when the new Blu-ray comes out, it just makes me upset that now whenever I go see this film at the theater, it's gonna be this one with the new sound. I counted this last screening as my 11th time seeing it in a theater and each time was a thrilling and euphoric experience, always reassuring me why this is my all-time favorite film. Someday the new mix might grow on me, as I had to when it came to what was done for Superman: The Movie, but 30 years of a attachment is hard to let go.

This is a downright disgrace and a bastardization of all that B89 stands for. The original intent of the filmmakers has been violated, and even if this was the original intent (it isn't)- THIS IS NOT HOW THE FILM WAS ORIGINALLY RELEASED.

Sloppy cover art is one thing, changing the film itself is another. I could not possibly enjoy this 4K experience fully knowing the sound has been tampered with. B89 was a moment in time. People in 2019 have no right to interfere in history this way. Their personal preferences are irrelevant and shouldn't even come in second place to WHAT HAS BEEN for 30 years.

Imagine the sheer arrogance of this 4K team to think they are improving the film. They've finally corrected all these mistakes - Burton got it wrong and they got it right. No sir, you WILL NOT find me accepting this as the new, improved and definitive release of B89. Why tolerate something that is intolerant of the film's spirit?

I encourage everyone to turn their back on this release.

Don't get used to the changes, shun them and enjoy B89 as it was meant to be enjoyed.

QuoteI'm seeing people say that using that soundtrack was a stylistic choice. However, if that's the case then why would Batman Returns opt to use more realistic sound effects even though it also takes place in a heightened reality?

Warners knew this was going to be their highest grossing film of the year and wanted to be given special treatment with Dolby Digital, which was new at the time. Burton went with it as it would further distinguish it from the first film.

QuoteThis is a downright disgrace and a bastardization of all that B89 stands for. The original intent of the filmmakers has been violated, and even if this was the original intent (it isn't)- THIS IS NOT HOW THE FILM WAS ORIGINALLY RELEASED.

Sloppy cover art is one thing, changing the film itself is another. I could not possibly enjoy this 4K experience fully knowing the sound has been tampered with. B89 was a moment in time. People in 2019 have no right to interfere in history this way. Their personal preferences are irrelevant and shouldn't even come in second place to WHAT HAS BEEN for 30 years.

Imagine the sheer arrogance of this 4K team to think they are improving the film. They've finally corrected all these mistakes - Burton got it wrong and they got it right. No sir, you WILL NOT find me accepting this as the new, improved and definitive release of B89. Why tolerate something that is intolerant of the film's spirit?

I encourage everyone to turn their back on this release.

Don't get used to the changes, shun them and enjoy B89 as it was meant to be enjoyed.

The new video transfer is still worth checking out. It restores the initial dark look of the film prints that had to be lightened up for all of the subsequent video releases. There will be an option to switch to the original audio track when the 4K disc comes out next month. They will also be on the Blu-ray disc that comes it for those who don't have a 4K player yet. The real shame of it all is that whenever it plays in a theater again, it will be the new sound mix.

On the new 4K Superman: The Movie, the dominate track on the 4K disc is the 5.1 original 1978 sound that was previously only available in 2.0 on the DVD and Blu-ray and you had to select the Dolby Atmos from the audio menu to hear its new mix. Batman '89 might be set up the same way.

The look of the film is subjective. There has always been variance in home releases - nevermind the limitations of those formats or the source they were transfered from.

The sound of the film is a different thing, and the changes are apparent and noticeable. Not a fan of the changes at all.

I find this updating of these sound effects to be a waste of time. Can't movies be a product of their time anymore?

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon,  6 May  2019, 09:52
This is a downright disgrace and a bastardization of all that B89 stands for. The original intent of the filmmakers has been violated, and even if this was the original intent (it isn't)- THIS IS NOT HOW THE FILM WAS ORIGINALLY RELEASED.

Sloppy cover art is one thing, changing the film itself is another. I could not possibly enjoy this 4K experience fully knowing the sound has been tampered with. B89 was a moment in time. People in 2019 have no right to interfere in history this way. Their personal preferences are irrelevant and shouldn't even come in second place to WHAT HAS BEEN for 30 years.

Imagine the sheer arrogance of this 4K team to think they are improving the film. They've finally corrected all these mistakes - Burton got it wrong and they got it right. No sir, you WILL NOT find me accepting this as the new, improved and definitive release of B89. Why tolerate something that is intolerant of the film's spirit?

I encourage everyone to turn their back on this release.

Don't get used to the changes, shun them and enjoy B89 as it was meant to be enjoyed.

::)

This only reaffirms my contempt for Warner Butchers and why I have no desire to support any movie they release any more. After all, this is the same studio that allowed guests to badmouth B89's legacy on its very own 25th Anniversary Blu-Ray release. This is the same studio that meddled with BvS's theatrical release and butchered what Justice League was supposed to be. Let's not kid ourselves, had people not put Nolan on such a pedestal, they would've meddled with his movies too.

So, tell me, what do you expect from such a pathetic excuse for a movie studio?

Quote from: Paul (ral) on Mon,  6 May  2019, 12:24
The look of the film is subjective. There has always been variance in home releases - nevermind the limitations of those formats or the source they were transfered from.

The sound of the film is a different thing, and the changes are apparent and noticeable. Not a fan of the changes at all.

Exactly.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon,  6 May  2019, 09:52

Quote from: Kamdan on Sun,  5 May  2019, 21:16

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sun,  5 May  2019, 17:53
Whether adding new effects is right or wrong is up for debate. However, there were a few scenes in here that were improved due to the new soundtrack. Both Axis chemicals sequences (Police Raid/Batmobile explosion) felt more intense.

It's been perfectly intense to me for the last 30 years. It's really annoying how now suddenly everyone has a problem with those gunfire sound effects, complete with the ricocheting noises, all of which have been completely purged from the new sound mix. I've heard people say that it sounds too much like a cartoon. To me, it sounds like a movie and that fits the world of Batman '89 that heightened reality.

Putting in noises that are more fitting for Nolan's realistic version gives it less of a distinctive identity. You wouldn't put Dirty Harry's Magnum sound effect in The Dark Knight or hear a power loader from Aliens for Nolan's Batmobile. It was annoying how over the years Warners has tried to make Photoshopped images to make this film look more like the Nolan films. Now they've crossed a major line trying to make it sound like one.

One of the after-mentioned additions was hearing the new sounds of the Batwing. This is not a functional flying machine in real life. It's a complete fantasy that is believable in this world. For this new sound mix, they got to add new noises that take away the stealth nature the original gave it. When it crashes and burns, they had to add the sound of the engine going out, sounding as though someone had shut off a vacuum cleaner. It's just there to sell the idea that this is real. That was never a complaint from those who loved this movie for the last three decades.

Although this new sound mix is just to add a bit extra for those with the new Dolby Atmos system and we'll be able to view the film with the original sound mix when the new Blu-ray comes out, it just makes me upset that now whenever I go see this film at the theater, it's gonna be this one with the new sound. I counted this last screening as my 11th time seeing it in a theater and each time was a thrilling and euphoric experience, always reassuring me why this is my all-time favorite film. Someday the new mix might grow on me, as I had to when it came to what was done for Superman: The Movie, but 30 years of a attachment is hard to let go.

This is a downright disgrace and a bastardization of all that B89 stands for. The original intent of the filmmakers has been violated, and even if this was the original intent (it isn't)- THIS IS NOT HOW THE FILM WAS ORIGINALLY RELEASED.

Sloppy cover art is one thing, changing the film itself is another. I could not possibly enjoy this 4K experience fully knowing the sound has been tampered with. B89 was a moment in time. People in 2019 have no right to interfere in history this way. Their personal preferences are irrelevant and shouldn't even come in second place to WHAT HAS BEEN for 30 years.

Imagine the sheer arrogance of this 4K team to think they are improving the film. They've finally corrected all these mistakes - Burton got it wrong and they got it right. No sir, you WILL NOT find me accepting this as the new, improved and definitive release of B89. Why tolerate something that is intolerant of the film's spirit?

I encourage everyone to turn their back on this release.

Don't get used to the changes, shun them and enjoy B89 as it was meant to be enjoyed.

Everybody calm down. From what I've been reading the original soundtrack will also be included. Unlike Star Wars the original is not being erased from existence.

QuoteEverybody calm down. From what I've been reading the original soundtrack will also be included. Unlike Star Wars the original is not being erased from existence.

Or the first Terminator where the original mono track is nowhere to be heard on the latest Blu-ray release.

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Mon,  6 May  2019, 15:09
Everybody calm down. From what I've been reading the original soundtrack will also be included. Unlike Star Wars the original is not being erased from existence.

The audio integrity of B89 has been desecrated, therefore I will get louder, not quieter. As Kamdan has stated, 4K89 will be the version used in cinemas from now on. Therefore these changes are not contained to your living room.

4K89 has essentially become the new canon version, with the original soundtrack now being an OPTION. There should not be an option in the first place - there should only be WHAT IS.

People who view 4K89 on a regular basis and soften their criticisms will come to see the original as the aberration. Those who have only ever known 4K89 will just assume that's how the film has always been. That's the unnecessary and unwanted can of worms that has been opened here.

Those behind 4K89 seem to have done the picture quality justice, but by re-recording sounds, they have gone beyond their jurisdiction, becoming drunk with the concept of providing a 'clearer, superior experience'.

I understand the outrage. I even largely support it. By all means, be as vocal as you can be.

But films change over time. I'm not saying that's a positive thing. I'm simply saying that it's true.

Go back and watch the theatrical DVD's of Lord Of The Rings. Then watched the extended DVD's. You'll notice some pretty substantial differences between each cut; color design, the soundmix and even the timing of certain cuts are slightly different. On the DVD's.

But we live in an HD world now. And when LOTR was mastered for HD, the theatrical editions were sourced from the extended editions. Somebody basically hacked up the extended editions to get the "theatrical" versions generally aligned with what they had been originally. Except the small differences with color timing, the soundtrack and other elements remain in the "theatrical" cuts even though they didn't exist originally.

People have mentioned Superman: The Movie. The original theatrical edition has never truly been released on home video since VHS or maybe Laserdisk. That's it.

And we all know about the train wreck next to a dumpster fire in the middle of a s**t show that Star Wars has been for decades now. There's a strong argument that the theatrical versions of those films have NEVER been released on home video. And I subscribe to that argument, incidentally. All most of us have ever seen are facsimiles of the theatrical versions (if even that).

Frankly, this rewriting of cinematic history really needs to stop.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu,  9 May  2019, 02:21
People have mentioned Superman: The Movie. The original theatrical edition has never truly been released on home video since VHS or maybe Laserdisk. That's it.

The recent 4K Blu-ray of Superman: The Movie is the theatrical cut and included for the first time is the original 1978 sound mix in 5.1. The DVD and Blu-ray only had the theatrical audio in 2.0. I believe it is the default audio as well due to the Atmos system not being widely available for most consumers.

Perhaps Batman '89's upcoming release will have a similar set up where the new audio must be selected to be heard. It's just a shame that Superman didn't get a new Blu-ray with the new transfer and was only repackaged with the old theatrical cut Blu-ray. The 4K release of the Batman films should include new Blu-rays with the new transfers, which is another sign of how better care is given to Batman than Superman with Warners, who didn't bother to make 4K versions of the Superman sequels.

Quote from: Kamdan on Thu,  9 May  2019, 05:21

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu,  9 May  2019, 02:21
People have mentioned Superman: The Movie. The original theatrical edition has never truly been released on home video since VHS or maybe Laserdisk. That's it.

The recent 4K Blu-ray of Superman: The Movie is the theatrical cut and included for the first time is the original 1978 sound mix in 5.1. The DVD and Blu-ray only had the theatrical audio in 2.0. I believe it is the default audio as well due to the Atmos system not being widely available for most consumers.

Not so. It's the extended version which has been recut to align with the timing of the theatrical version. But it's not truly the theatrical version. Because the theatrical version occasionally had shots of Superman wearing a sort of aqua body suit (to create contrast against the blue screen). It's a good facsimile of the theatrical version, I agree. But it's not truly the theatrical version.

QuoteNot so. It's the extended version which has been recut to align with the timing of the theatrical version. But it's not truly the theatrical version. Because the theatrical version occasionally had shots of Superman wearing a sort of aqua body suit (to create contrast against the blue screen). It's a good facsimile of the theatrical version, I agree. But it's not truly the theatrical version.

Correctly retiming the color of the suit is a decent improvement, unlike changing the sound effects. That's one of the advantages of remastering. It was decent how the Star Wars films redone blue screen work to get rid of matte boxes and lines that was a distraction in the original, as were Superman's turquoise suit. I was hoping they would at least recolor The Joker's suit at the end so that it was its proper purple instead of magenta.

Most remastering of older films alter the colors in some ways to appear more naturalistic, so unless you get the actual film print, you're not always seeing the film as it was originally presented.

Quote from: Kamdan on Sun, 12 May  2019, 21:38

QuoteNot so. It's the extended version which has been recut to align with the timing of the theatrical version. But it's not truly the theatrical version. Because the theatrical version occasionally had shots of Superman wearing a sort of aqua body suit (to create contrast against the blue screen). It's a good facsimile of the theatrical version, I agree. But it's not truly the theatrical version.

Correctly retiming the color of the suit is a decent improvement, unlike changing the sound effects. That's one of the advantages of remastering. It was decent how the Star Wars films redone blue screen work to get rid of matte boxes and lines that was a distraction in the original, as were Superman's turquoise suit. I was hoping they would at least recolor The Joker's suit at the end so that it was its proper purple instead of magenta.

Most remastering of older films alter the colors in some ways to appear more naturalistic, so unless you get the actual film print, you're not always seeing the film as it was originally presented.

The blue body suit did not come about from remastering. It came from intentional changes made over two decades later.

The theatrical cut of STM occasionally featured an aqua body suit. The theatrical versions of the Star Wars trilogy occasionally featured matte boxes/lines.

I want the theatrical editions of all those movies. The soundtrack is only the tip of the iceberg.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 13 May  2019, 19:56
The blue body suit did not come about from remastering. It came from intentional changes made over two decades later.

The theatrical cut of STM occasionally featured an aqua body suit. The theatrical versions of the Star Wars trilogy occasionally featured matte boxes/lines.

I want the theatrical editions of all those movies. The soundtrack is only the tip of the iceberg.

Asking for your idea of "theatrical editions" of films opens it up to display defects the filmmakers never wanted you to notice. You can't pause the movie while it's playing at a screening to notice changes in color or a problem with an effect. Today's high definition transfers aren't forgiving on old processes of achieving special effects. Even make-up on the actors is now more noticeable than ever.

Just back from a 4K screening. You know what...I didn't hate the sound changes - but a review is in order.

Quote from: Paul (ral) on Fri, 17 May  2019, 23:02
Just back from a 4K screening. You know what...I didn't hate the sound changes - but a review is in order.

I liked the majority of the changes as well.

Quote from: Kamdan on Tue, 14 May  2019, 05:17
Asking for your idea of "theatrical editions" of films opens it up to display defects the filmmakers never wanted you to notice. You can't pause the movie while it's playing at a screening to notice changes in color or a problem with an effect. Today's high definition transfers aren't forgiving on old processes of achieving special effects. Even make-up on the actors is now more noticeable than ever.

It's a touchy subject because there's even minor changes made between theatrical releases and home releases, minor tweaks not even meant to be consciously picked up. Then again, most film changes are meant to keep the viewer in the movie as opposed to taking them out. Star Wars offers an exception with the special editions; it was meant to draw viewers to new CGI enhancements for the sake of the anniversary, but then these versions became the norm.

Nevertheless, something that stuck with me when watching restoration artists touching up old Universal films is that the goal was to make it look like opening day. That should be the top priority of presenting any film in home video; without exception, the version of the film presented in theaters is the version that struck a chord with audiences, garnered the acclaim, and is remembered historically.

Reviewers with early screeners report that the original 5.1 mix is available on the 4K disc and the Blu-ray disc included is the new transfer with the new audio mix and the original.

Here's a clip featuring the new transfer and sound mix.

https://youtu.be/v_jVUTLDUzU

Quote from: Kamdan on Sat, 25 May  2019, 23:16
Here's a clip featuring the new transfer and sound mix.

https://youtu.be/v_jVUTLDUzU

The picture quality is great. Crisp and clear.

But I still don't see the point in those new changes to the sound effects. The whooshing sound effect when the Batmobile moves, for example, seems excessive. The original audio mix might seem outdated for some people, but I don't see why it would make or break the movie. I repeat, movies are a product of their time.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 26 May  2019, 04:07
But I still don't see the point in those new changes to the sound effects. The whooshing sound effect when the Batmobile moves, for example, seems excessive. The original audio mix might seem outdated for some people, but I don't see why it would make or break the movie. I repeat, movies are a product of their time.

It's changes like these that annoy me the most. They did the same thing with Superman: The Movie to make him sound like a missile EVERY TIME he flew.

A few comparison screencap comparisons:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=16448900&postcount=933

I'm now hearing that the original audio mix is NOT an option on either disc. This is truly aggravating if true.

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/61444326_2497616350295446_3959257478025183232_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=87d6f97525ea6a8154def5f9db750c7c&oe=5D59F92E)

Saw this art shared by the official Batman page on Facebook, and I really liked it. A lot of design elements done right, and a more masterful use of digital editing. I'd totally accept this as an artwork for a home release.

Meanwhile, the steelbook covers don't look bad. It would just be greatly improved by the actual cityscapes.

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Mon,  6 May  2019, 15:09
Everybody calm down. From what I've been reading the original soundtrack will also be included. Unlike Star Wars the original is not being erased from existence.

Are you sure about that?

Quote from: Kamdan on Mon, 27 May  2019, 12:52
I'm now hearing that the original audio mix is NOT an option on either disc. This is truly aggravating if true.

No matter how good 4K89 may look, it's always going to be the Blu-ray version for me.

Quote from: Kamdan on Mon, 27 May  2019, 03:24
A few comparison screencap comparisons:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=16448900&postcount=933

I'm not a fan of how the shots of the Joker parade and Gordon with the Batsignal is turning out. They're too bright for my tastes.

Quote from: Kamdan on Mon, 27 May  2019, 12:52
I'm now hearing that the original audio mix is NOT an option on either disc. This is truly aggravating if true.

It wouldn't surprise me. This is Warner Butchers we're talking about.

Meanwhile, just to change the subject for a moment, I found this picture of Batman making a different pose with the Joker on the Batcomputer's TV panels. Has anybody else seen this before, or is it rare? This is the first time I've ever seen this particular picture.

(https://i.imgur.com/vIVPZKd.png)

This was based on these pictures I thought only existed. I do remember another picture of Batman with his arms folded while standing in front of the same background, but I can't find it online anywhere.

(https://l450v.alamy.com/450v/bpde7t/jack-nicholson-michael-keaton-batman-1989-bpde7t.jpg)

(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BPD9FF/michael-keaton-jack-nicholson-batman-1989-BPD9FF.jpg)

I've watched the film on iTunes and can confirm that it's the remastered picture and original audio. I don't know why they're making this option so hard to accomplish for the discs. They pulled a similar stunt when Superman: The Movie's theatrical cut first came to DVD. The original theatrical audio track was a downgrade of the remixed track. They had to send out replacements. Hope something like this is implemented for this release.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 29 May  2019, 11:45

Quote from: Kamdan on Mon, 27 May  2019, 03:24
A few comparison screencap comparisons:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=16448900&postcount=933

I'm not a fan of how the shots of the Joker parade and Gordon with the Batsignal is turning out. They're too bright for my tastes.

Quote from: Kamdan on Mon, 27 May  2019, 12:52
I'm now hearing that the original audio mix is NOT an option on either disc. This is truly aggravating if true.

It wouldn't surprise me. This is Warner Butchers we're talking about.

Meanwhile, just to change the subject for a moment, I found this picture of Batman making a different pose with the Joker on the Batcomputer's TV panels. Has anybody else seen this before, or is it rare? This is the first time I've ever seen this particular picture.

(https://i.imgur.com/vIVPZKd.png)

This was based on these pictures I thought only existed. I do remember another picture of Batman with his arms folded while standing in front of the same background, but I can't find it online anywhere.

(https://l450v.alamy.com/450v/bpde7t/jack-nicholson-michael-keaton-batman-1989-bpde7t.jpg)

(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BPD9FF/michael-keaton-jack-nicholson-batman-1989-BPD9FF.jpg)

(https://batman-online.com/images/13844598033541.jpg)

Cheers, BatmanFurst. (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/batmanonlinecom_default/images/post/thumbup.gif)

I remember looking at that picture in a copy of Time Magazine when I was a kid. Except it was in colour.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 29 May  2019, 22:52
Cheers, BatmanFurst. (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/batmanonlinecom_default/images/post/thumbup.gif)

I remember looking at that picture in a copy of Time Magazine when I was a kid. Except it was in colour.

No problem, funny enough I just made a shirt with that pic on it.

In my opinion changing the original sound effects to make it sound more modernized is a serious disservice to the original intent of the film.  Although the time period of Burton's Batman films are timeless.  The movies themselves purposely payed homage to old Film Noir gangster films of the 30's/40's.  This also includes the sound effects by perfectly emulating that old classic film style.

To further illustrate my point please watch the original Axis Chemicals Scene in Black&White.


https://youtu.be/61MCMU8lFWU

Quote from: Kamdan on Wed, 29 May  2019, 18:49
I've watched the film on iTunes and can confirm that it's the remastered picture and original audio. I don't know why they're making this option so hard to accomplish for the discs. They pulled a similar stunt when Superman: The Movie's theatrical cut first came to DVD. The original theatrical audio track was a downgrade of the remixed track. They had to send out replacements. Hope something like this is implemented for this release.

Yes, I've just checked my old itunes copy, which was recently updated to the new 4K master. The old sound effects are present.
I would like the option of watching the film with the new effects though. I wonder why these mandatory decisions are being made for us?

Quote from: Max Eckhardt on Tue,  4 Jun  2019, 23:17
Yes, I've just checked my old itunes copy, which was recently updated to the new 4K master. The old sound effects are present.
I would like the option of watching the film with the new effects though. I wonder why these mandatory decisions are being made for us?

It annoying how they can't even keep consistent with their changes. They shouldn't have messed with the sound to begin with. The other three films were treated very well with their updated remixes that simply enhanced what was always there. For Batman '89, someone must have heard someone who wasn't born yet when the film came out that hearing Dirty Harry's Magnum over and over again along with those old fashion ricocheting bullet noises dated the film and doing this remix was a way to appease them. They're always into making that crowd happy, but forget about the ones who grew up on this film and changing many significant and memorable sounds throws everything off.

I'm not going to buy these new transfers until they give us the original mix. September will see the release of a 4K boxed set and hopefully by then they will correct the issue. The same thing happened for Superman: The Movie and I hope it'll happen here. Then again, the Blu-ray releases of The Terminator never got the original mono track as an option.

Quote from: Kamdan on Wed,  5 Jun  2019, 19:41
It annoying how they can't even keep consistent with their changes. They shouldn't have messed with the sound to begin with. The other three films were treated very well with their updated remixes that simply enhanced what was always there. For Batman '89, someone must have heard someone who wasn't born yet when the film came out that hearing Dirty Harry's Magnum over and over again along with those old fashion ricocheting bullet noises dated the film and doing this remix was a way to appease them. They're always into making that crowd happy, but forget about the ones who grew up on this film and changing many significant and memorable sounds throws everything off.

That's quite typical of Warner hacks, really. Radically changing movies to desperately appease young, impressionable crowds that will only reject them anyway.

Off-topic: Dirty Harry...now THAT was a great film. A non-apologetic action movie where the disillusioned protagonist sticks it to bureaucracy for letting a killer off the hook to pursue his own brand of justice. Sadly, that movie could never be made in today's pitiful climate.

(https://i.imgur.com/RCYqwLQ.gif)

We can make a difference! I'm reaching out and attempting to let Warner Bros. Entertainment know that we as fans, deserve to celebrate the 30th Anniversary of Tim Burton's Batman the way it was intended.

If you purchased the new 4K Ultra HD blu-ray of the movie you can help start a movement by emailing whv@wb.com and requesting a replacement disc including the original audio track with the classic sound effects. A handful of us have already reached out and contacted them and our power will be in numbers. We appreciate all of the support we can get. We should at least have it as an option on top of the new Atmos mix. Let's celebrate this classic film the way it was intended.

https://www.batman-online.com/features/2019/6/9/batman-89-on-4k-deserves-better

Quote from: Paul (ral) on Mon, 10 Jun  2019, 00:53
https://www.batman-online.com/features/2019/6/9/batman-89-on-4k-deserves-better

Can we do the same for #ReleaseTheSnyderCut?

But the original 89 mix actually exists....

Quote from: Paul (ral) on Mon, 10 Jun  2019, 01:39
But the original 89 mix actually exists....

Then you haven't paid any attention to what has been going on about new revelations about the JL movie, particularly when Zack Snyder himself said the cut for his movie is done.

Looks like Warners caught on to the iTunes version of Batman '89 having the original audio and changed it to the new remixed version.

I've also started a petition...

http://chng.it/6Pm2GycTxC

Paul thanks again for giving me contributor credit on the article. Let's all sign this petition, and email WB and let them know we won't take this decision laying down.

Quote from: Kamdan on Mon, 10 Jun  2019, 02:24
Looks like Warners caught on to the iTunes version of Batman '89 having the original audio and changed it to the new remixed version.

Mine is still playing with the original audio.

Quote from: Max Eckhardt on Tue, 11 Jun  2019, 07:27
Mine is still playing with the original audio.

Did you download your copy of it? I just streamed mine and it first started to play with no English track at all and eventually ended up with the remixes audio.

Quote from: Kamdan on Tue, 11 Jun  2019, 08:29

Quote from: Max Eckhardt on Tue, 11 Jun  2019, 07:27
Mine is still playing with the original audio.

Did you download your copy of it? I just streamed mine and it first started to play with no English track at all and eventually ended up with the remixes audio.

I just streamed it on my apple tv.

To those that were supporting our cause and petition, I wanted to give you an update:

I just received a phone call from a very nice woman named Sherrie from Warner Bros in regards to my emails for a replacement disc to attempt to obtain the new Batman 89 4K disc with the original audio mix (with the original sound effects) included.

She said and I quote "sometimes emails can be crass so I decided to call you". She went on to explain that from what she's been told from the higher ups (which isn't much apparently), is that this is currently the product they are offering. She said "from what I'm being told, this is the product that is being released, so I don't have anything to send you as a replacement" and that she appreciated my passion as a fan.

I explained in detail why the original audio is so important to us as fans and why we should at least have it as an option. I advised that including it in the upcoming boxset would be an acceptable option in which she replied "I'll pass that along". I'm very happy that she took the time to call me and at least respond but it sounds like the new sound mix is what we're stuck with. At least we tried.

This is a tough subject here, and I don't want to sound spoiled after Warner went through the trouble of bringing us a new 4K transfer, adding a bunch of other restoration efforts, and promoted the heck out of it, with theatrical showings to boot.

The sound mix is a big deal, but for me, the color timing is way more noticeable. Sound is subjective, but the side-by-side picture comparisons really show how they heavily altered the original, natural coloring of the film. It can get a little distracting when everything is too blue shifted. It's a shame considering how good the actual picture quality is.

Meanwhile on the sound, I think it was well done, but the absence of the original is the big issue. Star Wars has always been the example for changing films on re-releases, and I think there would be no argument so long as the original was available as an alternative. I suppose this didn't come out of nowhere because Danny Elfman saw the lacking sound design as an error that needed fixing, but at what point do you draw the line?

You'll get NO complaints if you simply work on trying to recreate that 1989 theater experience for home audiences (we're SO close), but adding changes is seen as having the potential to rope in new audiences. Like I said, this can be done without making compromises.

Quote from: Slash Man on Tue,  9 Jul  2019, 07:11
This is a tough subject here, and I don't want to sound spoiled after Warner went through the trouble of bringing us a new 4K transfer, adding a bunch of other restoration efforts, and promoted the heck out of it, with theatrical showings to boot.

I think Warner is a garbage company that deserves to face criticism for putting out defective products and having a track record for deception, so don't be afraid to criticise them when they screw up.

Just going back to your previous post about that social media poster...

Quote from: Slash Man on Wed, 29 May  2019, 04:55
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/61444326_2497616350295446_3959257478025183232_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=87d6f97525ea6a8154def5f9db750c7c&oe=5D59F92E)

I know you said you like it, and I admit, I do like the glowing effect around the Bat emblem. But the picture of Batman the designer used is crap. They took a screenshot of him ready to attach the Speargun onto his utility belt from the alley scene, as Furstmobile already pointed out on page 3 of this thread, but they retouched it really badly in Photoshop. Look at how his cape appears wrapped and folded over his right shoulder and how it's draped down the right side of his body at the same time. Really amateurish stuff. And this is the mockup they used for the Blu-Ray cover too. It looks so unprofessional.

There were plenty of promotional photos of Keaton's Batman from 1989 they could've used. Instead, they decided to take a screenshot of him and chop his body around to make an already awkward pose even worse. Thankfully, the other social media posters I saw for BR, BF and B&R that used the same glowing template looked much better.

Well I can't unsee that one now. I thought that art was the lesser of the two evils, but I don't know anymore. I can think of multiple ways they could have done that edit better.

Looking for some positive changes, was the scene where Joker shoots Bob changed? That one stood out in the original because the sound effect was delayed by what seemed like a full second.

Hey all, I know this thread isn't very active but I wanted to say this:

It's October '19. I just watched the 4K Digital version on iTunes and Vudu....it seems like the original sound mix is back. I watched Batman '89 4k digital on iTunes this summer and it was the new mix. Can someone double check and get back to me on this?

I bought it on itunes on the Movies Anywhere app and it has been the 1080p version of the new transfer with the old sound mix ever since then. I don't have an Apple TV or I would buy it again in 4K so I could have it with the original sound mix.

I don't have a 4k tv yet, so I haven't bought the new versions. I still have my blu rays.  ;D

The 4K transfer itself is stunning, however I along with Ral and many others have been very vocal in regards to the sound mix. I've spoken to WB on the phone twice now and it sounds like they've made up their mind about including the old sound mix on disc.

With the original sound mix appearing on digital versions of Batman '89, I hope that this is how the movie will be presented if I see it in that theater again. This whole business with the new sound mixes has been a mess. I know for sure that Returns and Forever had the original sound mixes with remastered picture at the theater, but the discs have new sound mixes as well.

All of the first four Batman movies are unavailable for booking for the remainder of the year so we won't know that until next year at the earliest.

Quote from: DarkVengeance on Tue, 15 Oct  2019, 17:21
All of the first four Batman movies are unavailable for booking for the remainder of the year so we won't know that until next year at the earliest.

Hey why is that? I was wondering why no theatres around me were doing screenings of the 89 Batman.

That's because they debuted the new 4K transfers during the special Fathom Events back in May. It was an exclusive to Fathom so WB blocked any other screenings for the entire year.

Quote from: DarkVengeance on Mon, 28 Oct  2019, 23:21
That's because they debuted the new 4K transfers during the special Fathom Events back in May. It was an exclusive to Fathom so WB blocked any other screenings for the entire year.

In this age of attempting to maximize every last penny of potential revenue, repertory titles being screened in big cinemas is increasingly becoming a bit of a boutique. Considering that Business Is War seems to be Disney's battle cry lately, it shouldn't come as a great surprise to discover that they're closing the books in Fox's repertory titles and stuffing them into the famous (or infamous) Disney vault.

It's only logical to think that the other studios will have to find some sort of way to protect themselves. If Disney is poised to dominate 50+% of the box office marketplace (and, post-Fox-mergey, they are), WB may very well think they have no choice but to conserve their repertory titles for their streaming service.

It's strange that living in an age with so many options paradoxically results in our having fewer options.

I'm trying to consolidate some of my collection, and I've got a question about the Blu-Ray and 4K Ultra HD Blu-Ray combo; is the normal Blu-Ray the same as the previous releases? To specify; is it the original color grading and sound effects? I've been meaning to replace my Special Edition DVD boxset with this release, but I would like having access to the previous master.

The bluray from my set is the remastered 4k footage with the 4k color grading and redone sound fx

Bought this son of a son on iTunes. It's basically the same as this big fancy pants remaster.

Amazingly good quality. Definitely worth buying. In fact, so good is it that I saw details that were apparently always invisible before. For openers, the B89 cowl has covered nostrils. There are little openings for Keaton to breath out of but basically the part of the nose is covered. I've watched this movie for the best part of thirty years without ever noticing that before. But I noticed it now. The nose-cover is visible in zillions of shots so there's no sense in pointing to just one scene.

So yeah, that's really all I had to say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLpdi8YrhOc

Some YouTuber with more free time than sense took it upon himself to "fix" various "problems" with B89.

I object to it largely because he sounds like there's some type of fan consensus as to B89's various technical booboos. But the way I see it, B89 is a product of its time. Personally, I never needed B89 to look like it was made in 2021. I'm happy for it to look the same way it looked in 1989. I don't need all these idiotic "fixes" to the movie. I disapprove of revisionism in general and I definitely disapprove when it comes to little flaws that I get a bizarre joy out of.

I guess this guy decided to "fix" issues with B89, just like Warners did with switching out sound effects in order to make the film seem more modern?

Once again, not necessary.

I quite like the fixes. They aren't distracting like the modern sfx.

Does a 30 year old movie need to be 'fixed'? That's the question.

Nick Dubman would have wanted the purple splodge fixed back in the day.

I'm of the view if it wasn't fixed back in the day it should remain unfixed.

In a fight scene from The Man With The Golden Gun, an actor falls into a mirror, which accidentally shows the camera crew filming the scene. When the Bond movies were being remastered for DVD the team decided to leave it in there. I have total respect for their decision, and wish more came to that conclusion.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 27 Mar  2021, 01:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLpdi8YrhOc

I thought the changes were well done. They're not essential by any means, but it's an interesting fan project that must have required a fair amount of technical skill to pull off. I am surprised that they overlooked some of the more obvious gaffes though. For example, Batman's wobbly animated shadow when he watches the mugging at the start of the movie...


...or the bullet hole that appears in his chest emblem before he gets shot during the alley fight scene.


Again, neither of these is essential. But if you're going to fix technical gaffes, I would have thought these would be high on the list.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 27 Mar  2021, 01:27I disapprove of revisionism in general

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 27 Mar  2021, 01:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLpdi8YrhOc

Some YouTuber with more free time than sense took it upon himself to "fix" various "problems" with B89.

I object to it largely because he sounds like there's some type of fan consensus as to B89's various technical booboos. But the way I see it, B89 is a product of its time. Personally, I never needed B89 to look like it was made in 2021. I'm happy for it to look the same way it looked in 1989. I don't need all these idiotic "fixes" to the movie. I disapprove of revisionism in general and I definitely disapprove when it comes to little flaws that I get a bizarre joy out of.

It's a fascinating video. I agree that those are completely unnecessary, and I would be angered if they actually did release that. But for a fan project, it shows a lot of passion and some seamless effects work.

I was a little put off by the entitlement on display there; he's angered that we got a brand new 4K scan for this new release... and Warner didn't tinker with it? Sets a terrible precedent that studios have to waste money on frivolous digital fixes to see a modern release, of which audiences may not notice, or may actively oppose. Studios should strive to have old films look as they did on release day. Nothing more, nothing less.

The new 4K transfer took the time to radically change the original sound mix and even took the time to remove a light reflected in the window during the parade scene. If they're taking the time to change those details, you might as well go with other cosmetic changes like removing that purple mark on Joker's neck or color correcting Joker's costume for the ending.

I appreciate the efforts of fans taking the time and effort to fix minor details like this. He also fixed the missing eye makeup from the unmasking scene in Batman Returns. I wasn't a fan of how he made the final scene with the batsignal looking completely different from the original, especially how they don't quite match up.

QuoteStudios should strive to have old films look as they did on release day. Nothing more, nothing less.

Problem is that today we can watch yesterday's films in much better quality than we could when they first came out. When I saw a 35mm print of Joker, I kept thinking how much better it would have looked if I had seen it in IMAX or a Dolby Cinema. Higher quality makes details that were never meant to be noticed now magnified. The Reeve Superman movies didn't need as much work hiding the wires when they first came out compared to their later releases on DVD and Blu-ray. Just the fact that we can pause, fast forward and rewind the movie is something the filmmakers never wanted us to do.

I'll always prefer the original with all its flaws and all, but offering both is a good compromise so that consumers have a choice and there's no reason for backlash. To be clear, I'm more fundamentally opposed to these changes rather than something that actively disturbs my viewing experience. Though speaking of options, the original soundtrack was originally announced to be an option, but ultimately left out. Left a sour taste in a lot of fans' mouths.

We're not quite at the point where current technology has exceeded the maximum resolution of movies shot on film, though I think 4K Blu-ray is the end of the line. I know its an analog format and all, but there isn't much more detail to be squeezed out at 8K. Despite the level of detail being fine, I think some consumers just don't like that it looks old. The tinting and graininess just gives away that it's an older film, to the point where studios will attempt to scrub it of its grain content and adjust the color timing to match current Hollywood trends. This usually just makes the film look worse (and makes everything look like wax in the case of DNR). Thankfully, this wasn't really the case with Batman. It wasn't a super grainy film to begin with, but DNR would have wrecked the look of the film.

Quote from: Slash Man on Tue, 13 Jul  2021, 05:14
I'll always prefer the original with all its flaws and all, but offering both is a good compromise so that consumers have a choice and there's no reason for backlash. To be clear, I'm more fundamentally opposed to these changes rather than something that actively disturbs my viewing experience. Though speaking of options, the original soundtrack was originally announced to be an option, but ultimately left out. Left a sour taste in a lot of fans' mouths.

We're not quite at the point where current technology has exceeded the maximum resolution of movies shot on film, though I think 4K Blu-ray is the end of the line. I know its an analog format and all, but there isn't much more detail to be squeezed out at 8K. Despite the level of detail being fine, I think some consumers just don't like that it looks old. The tinting and graininess just gives away that it's an older film, to the point where studios will attempt to scrub it of its grain content and adjust the color timing to match current Hollywood trends. This usually just makes the film look worse (and makes everything look like wax in the case of DNR). Thankfully, this wasn't really the case with Batman. It wasn't a super grainy film to begin with, but DNR would have wrecked the look of the film.

What's weird to me is that the version on HBO MAX has the original soundtrack with the new transfer. If they changed their minds I'm hoping there's a future release with that original audio included.

QuoteWe're not quite at the point where current technology has exceeded the maximum resolution of movies shot on film, though I think 4K Blu-ray is the end of the line.

That's probably true with 70mm film, but we're definitely at the point where we've surpassed 35mm.

QuoteWhat's weird to me is that the version on HBO MAX has the original soundtrack with the new transfer. If they changed their minds I'm hoping there's a future release with that original audio included.

I'm interested in seeing how this plays out for future theatrical rereleases. I hope the original sound will be on it as well. 25 years ago when Hitchcock's Vertigo was released with a new sound mix, there was much criticism over it due to iy sounding like a movie from what was then the present rather than when it first came out. Eventually technology developed so that the original sound effects could be utilized to make a new sound mix. Superman: The Movie had a similar problem and that 4K release defaults to the original sound mix with an option for an Atmos mix that's a combination of the two mixes. That's what should have been applied to the Batman films as well.

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Tue, 13 Jul  2021, 08:44
What's weird to me is that the version on HBO MAX has the original soundtrack with the new transfer. If they changed their minds I'm hoping there's a future release with that original audio included.

That gives me hope for the future. I sold my DVDs expecting a complete overhaul, but the lack of the original soundtrack is definitely a minus. Oh well, at least I have the VHS tapes for nostalgia's sake, and I probably won't be getting rid of those.

There hasn't been many cases of re-releases with 4K Blu-Ray yet, but at least Batman's popularity makes it a strong contender. Two things that would absolutely get me to purchase a new release are the original soundtrack, and even new artwork. Granted the original theatrical art is perfection personified, but I would at least settle for something attractive to the eye.

Quote from: Kamdan on Tue, 13 Jul  2021, 14:12I'm interested in seeing how this plays out for future theatrical rereleases. I hope the original sound will be on it as well. 25 years ago when Hitchcock's Vertigo was released with a new sound mix, there was much criticism over it due to iy sounding like a movie from what was then the present rather than when it first came out. Eventually technology developed so that the original sound effects could be utilized to make a new sound mix. Superman: The Movie had a similar problem and that 4K release defaults to the original sound mix with an option for an Atmos mix that's a combination of the two mixes. That's what should have been applied to the Batman films as well.

One of the reasons the STM sound mix was so controversial is because it was a brand new mix. It incorporated a lot of new elements into the soundtrack, primarily sound effects (although a few people claim that different takes of the Williams score were used too). Michael Thau (or somebody) justified the decision to create a new STM sound mix from the standpoint that the original mix was supposedly never completed. There's some credence to that too.

Still, I much prefer when these movies include the original soundtrack and an optional remastered/new soundtrack. Jaws included the OG mono mix on one of the early 2000's DVD releases and I thought it sounded great. Ditto the first two Godfathers.

QuoteOne of the reasons the STM sound mix was so controversial is because it was a brand new mix. It incorporated a lot of new elements into the soundtrack, primarily sound effects (although a few people claim that different takes of the Williams score were used too). Michael Thau (or somebody) justified the decision to create a new STM sound mix from the standpoint that the original mix was supposedly never completed. There's some credence to that too.

Same can be said for Batman '89's sound mix. The rushed post-production has been blamed for the use of the stock sound effects. Elfman also expressed his exasperation over the final mix of his score, which I happen to prefer over the soundtrack mixes.

Thau can't be trusted on his word. He tried to dismiss a leaked early version of The Donner Cut that f Superman II on Warner Bros. reediting the film when Donner specifically states in his commentary that certain scenes were cut when it was first assembled for him. Donner may have not been fully aware (or approved) the sound changed for Superman: The Movie. There was an interview with him over that issue and he acted concerned over the idea of the movie having an element changed without his knowledge. It probably led to the inclusion of the original sound in subsequent releases. We're in the same boat here with Batman '89, as the release was not approved by Burton or anyone on the production.

Quote from: Slash Man on Wed, 14 Jul  2021, 04:32
That gives me hope for the future. I sold my DVDs expecting a complete overhaul, but the lack of the original soundtrack is definitely a minus. Oh well, at least I have the VHS tapes for nostalgia's sake, and I probably won't be getting rid of those.

I don't personally own a 4K player, and though I've been considering purchasing one, the current 4K release of Batman'89 is a hard pass for me due to the original soundtrack being absent. With streaming dominating, the straightforward thinking would be to cater to those who still collect physical media by giving us more options. Not less.

This is reminiscent, to me, of all the post-2001 releases of "The Terminator" on blu ray, where the original mono mix has been glaringly absent, and so far, has never been rectified. Which is absolutely atrocious since this has been the case for 20 years now. However, if the HBO Max Batman'89 release includes the original soundtrack, then that's at least a promising sign for the possibility of another physical release of Batman'89 giving us the luxury of options when it comes to the soundtrack.

I was not aware of the Vertigo problem from years gone by. I am aware that the current/latest release of Hitchcock's 1960 "Psycho" has issues pertaining to the mono. I'm currently one of those requesting a disc replacement, but so far, there's been absolutely no progress whatsoever. Evidently, I'm certainly not alone though some have had success.

Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 15 Jul  2021, 04:37

Quote from: Slash Man on Wed, 14 Jul  2021, 04:32
That gives me hope for the future. I sold my DVDs expecting a complete overhaul, but the lack of the original soundtrack is definitely a minus. Oh well, at least I have the VHS tapes for nostalgia's sake, and I probably won't be getting rid of those.

I don't personally own a 4K player, and though I've been considering purchasing one, the current 4K release of Batman'89 is a hard pass for me due to the original soundtrack being absent. With streaming dominating, the straightforward thinking would be to cater to those who still collect physical media by giving us more options. Not less.

This is reminiscent, to me, of all the post-2001 releases of "The Terminator" on blu ray, where the original mono mix has been glaringly absent, and so far, has never been rectified. Which is absolutely atrocious since this has been the case for 20 years now. However, if the HBO Max Batman'89 release includes the original soundtrack, then that's at least a promising sign for the possibility of another physical release of Batman'89 giving us the luxury of options when it comes to the soundtrack.

I was not aware of the Vertigo problem from years gone by. I am aware that the current/latest release of Hitchcock's 1960 "Psycho" has issues pertaining to the mono. I'm currently one of those requesting a disc replacement, but so far, there's been absolutely no progress whatsoever. Evidently, I'm certainly not alone though some have had success.

The Terminator remark intrigued me. I could've sworn I owned a Terminator DVD in mono sound. I used to rip my DVD's and save them on my hard drives for a variety of reasons. Mostly for watching them on my iPod. Obviously this was way back in the old days. Anyway, I still have an mp4 of The Terminator that has "mono" as part of the file name. Which reinforced my suspicious that I owned such a DVD at one time. It makes sense. The mono soundtrack would've been THE selling point for me buying that DVD. I might very well have skipped it over without the mono sound.

So, I decided to check out. And sure enough, the mono soundtrack is definitely elusive. But it seems that, unless we're all suffering from a strange case of the Mandela Effect, the mono soundtrack was released on DVD as per http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare/terminator.htm

Full disclosure: I remember owning a DVD of The Terminator with mono sound but I am drawing a complete blank on that specific DVD cover. So, I might still be mistaken about something here.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 15 Jul  2021, 17:01
The Terminator remark intrigued me. I could've sworn I owned a Terminator DVD in mono sound. I used to rip my DVD's and save them on my hard drives for a variety of reasons. Mostly for watching them on my iPod. Obviously this was way back in the old days. Anyway, I still have an mp4 of The Terminator that has "mono" as part of the file name. Which reinforced my suspicious that I owned such a DVD at one time. It makes sense. The mono soundtrack would've been THE selling point for me buying that DVD. I might very well have skipped it over without the mono sound.

So, I decided to check out. And sure enough, the mono soundtrack is definitely elusive. But it seems that, unless we're all suffering from a strange case of the Mandela Effect, the mono soundtrack was released on DVD as per http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare/terminator.htm

Full disclosure: I remember owning a DVD of The Terminator with mono sound but I am drawing a complete blank on that specific DVD cover. So, I might still be mistaken about something here.

Yes, Colors, you are correct in that the mono saw release on "The Terminator" DVD's. That's why I made mention of since Post-2001, this has no longer been the case. The 2001 MGM Special Edition DVD, that was a double sided DVD loaded with extras (with some of the extras having never been ported over in any subsequent releases since) introduced the new mix, along with the mono, was the final official release of "The Terminator" that had the mono. Every subsequent release only has the new mix that was introduced in 2001 for whatever reason. It's possible you have this SE DVD, released in 2001, or it's very possible that you have the 1997/1998 MGM DVD release (which I think only included the trailer as an extra, so rather bare bones) that also had the original mono.

Here's the fun part though, evidently the mono on the 1997/1998 DVD is actually more vibrant than the mono found on the 2001 MGM SE DVD. The presumption on this is that since the 2001 MGM SE DVD is packed with so many extras, the mono as a consequence, was somewhat subdued in comparison to the mono found on the 1997/1998 DVD. Because in comparison, the mono on the 1997/1998 bare bones release noticeably packs more of a punch in sound than the mono on the double sided SE release.

I was able to find a MP3 file of the mono after some digging around online, but I wouldn't be able to tell you from which the source originated from.

I can confirm that theatrical rereleases of Batman '89 will now utilize the new sound mix. Still don't understand why we're still hearing the old sound mix on the streaming versions. Very disappointing that this film has been radically altered for future screenings.

That stinks, it was the same way for the Fathom event before the 4ks came out. I wonder if the same will be said about Returns wich did use the original mix