What are some things that these three live-action interpretations have in common?
- They all had Alfred lend a helping hand i.e. finding Jack Napier's criminal record in B89, changing the kamikaze penguins' frequency in BR, working together with Bruce in figuring out Riddler's true identity by solving the riddles in BF, testing the cowl in BB, and passing on information to Bruce in TDK and TDKR.
- All three versions were tempted to retire by the love of their lives - Selina Kyle, Chase Meridian, and Rachel Dawes.
- A villain played a part in Bruce's destiny to become Batman (Joker for Burton/Schumacher and Ra's al Ghul for Nolan).
- All three interpretations wore black Batsuits equipped with body armor. Except Schumacher was the only director who didn't copy the gold utility belt.
- Burton and Nolan had Batman disappear into thin air whenever someone turned their attention away for a second.
- Schumacher and Nolan had Bruce falling underground as a child and witnessing bats.
- All of their Batmobiles were sabotaged at one stage.
- All of them have killed at least once.
Thoughts? :-\
Another couple of things:
- All three interpretations say "I'm Batman" when they first appear on screen at some stage i.e B89,
B&R and BB. - Batman could glide in the air with his cape (Burton and Nolan).
- Wayne Manor was ambushed by the villains at one stage (Schumacher and Nolan).
Great stuff. There are also similarities between BR and TDKR.
Every film the bat signal itself has significance
Batman; shown at the end given to gordon
Batman Returns; shown twice in the film; once just before the first time we see Bruce Wayne, once right after the last time we see Bruce Wayne
Batman Forever; turned into a giant question mark by the riddler
Batman and Robin: a Robin signal created
Batman Begins; the subject of the last scene of the film
the dark knight; destroyed at the end setting up the next film of the framed Batman
the dark knight rises; Batman recreating the bat logo on the bridge signifying his return
Every film at least one character finds out Bruce Wayne is batman
Quote from: Edd Grayson on Sat, 15 Nov 2014, 09:08
Great stuff. There are also similarities between BR and TDKR.
Thanks Edd. :) You're right about the similarities between those two movies too, i.e. Penguin and Bane hiding in the sewers, snow time in Gotham, and Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle dancing at a ballroom.
Another thing the three interpretations had in common was that they relied a lot on their grapple guns. But then again, that has become a common thing in the franchise since 1989.
A couple of more things to add:
- Each interpretation had Batman cause villains to fall to their deaths, i.e.the Joker and the big henchman in B89, and both Two-Faces in BF and TDK.
- Each interpretation had Batman navigating his own aircraft. Burton and Nolan had Batman use his plane to latch onto hazardous objects (Joker's Smilex balloons and nuclear bomb) and flew them away from the city to safety.
- Schumacher and Nolan had Batman using sonar vision at one stage.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 12 Nov 2014, 09:25
- All three versions were tempted to retire by the love of their lives - Selina Kyle, Chase Meridian, and Rachel Dawes.
I disagree with that. Keaton was never tempted to retire, he flat out states "This is how it is". And Kilmer didn't retire because of Chase Meridian, I forget the actual reason why but it's there somewhere in the deleted scenes.
Quote from: OutRiddled on Fri, 3 Mar 2017, 21:39
I disagree with that. Keaton was never tempted to retire, he flat out states "This is how it is".
He says that in Batman 89, but in Batman Returns he wanted to retire and settle down with Selina. He unmasks himself right in front of Max Shreck, having previously announced his intent to send Shreck to prison. There was no going back after that. Batman's secret identity was compromised, and Shreck would have told everyone in prison it was Bruce Wayne beneath the cowl. But by that point Bruce didn't care. He just wanted to be with Selina. Forsaking his duel identity was his way of demonstrating his commitment to her and setting an example he hoped she'd follow.
Similarly Kilmer's Batman also wanted to quit and settle down with Chase. He tells Dick as much during the scene where he says "So from this day on, Batman is no more [...] Chase is coming to dinner. I'm going to tell her everything." Until then, Bruce had been driven by guilt stemming from repressed memories of his father's journal. But he'd failed to achieve catharsis through his crusade as Batman and had instead become locked in a cycle of violence; each night replacing the face of his parents' killer with a never-ending gallery of substitutes. He believed he could free himself from that cycle, from his repressed memories and the guilt attached to them, through Chase's help. It was only after he confronted those memories that he became liberated from his guilt and the compulsion to fight crime. And from then on out he chose to continue being batman as a matter of his own volition. But at one point, he definitely intended to discard the cowl and settle down with Chase.
I think the message Burton gave with the ending of Batman Returns is that Bruce doesn't get a conventional happy ending. Much like Batman Beyond. Keaton's Bruce finds a true kindred spirit and is willing to live happily ever after with her. But instead, he's rejected and injured. He also assumes his lover has committed suicide. That quickly turns a ray of light into a deep scar. Thus...Keatonverse Bruce has no other passion to embrace other than crimefighting.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 4 Mar 2017, 05:09
I think the message Burton gave with the ending of Batman Returns is that Bruce doesn't get a conventional happy ending. Much like Batman Beyond. Keaton's Bruce finds a true kindred spirit and is willing to live happily ever after with her. But instead, he's rejected and injured. He also assumes his lover has committed suicide. That quickly turns a ray of light into a deep scar. Thus...Keatonverse Bruce has no other passion to embrace other than crimefighting.
This. It's also similar to Bruce Wayne and Andrea Beaumont's relationship in Mask of the Phantasm.
Now that we're introduced to the DCEU Batman, let's make draw some parallels with the other live action interpretations.
- This Alfred continues the trend of helping Bruce out while on duty, but he is the first live action version to no longer serve as a butler; at least not in the events leading up to and during BvS.
- The DCEU Bruce witnessed bats after falling into a cave, but the difference is it's heavily implied that they've inspired him to adopt the symbol as a bat, instead of being afraid of them. Hence the Beautiful Lie monologue.
- DCEU Batman navigates his own aircraft yet again, and like Burton and Nolan, he has machine guns mounted on his Batwing. It should be noted that Schumacher's interpretation is the only exception in this area to date.
- The DCEU Batmobile continues the trend of live action Batmobiles being sabotaged at one stage, albeit rather minor. This time by Superman.
- Finally, Batman in this universe continues the trend of killing villains. And yet, wankers still treat it as if it's an anomaly in live action. Grrr.
Quote from: riddler on Sun, 16 Nov 2014, 00:48
Every film the bat signal itself has significance
Batman; shown at the end given to gordon
Batman Returns; shown twice in the film; once just before the first time we see Bruce Wayne, once right after the last time we see Bruce Wayne
Batman Forever; turned into a giant question mark by the riddler
Batman and Robin: a Robin signal created
Batman Begins; the subject of the last scene of the film
the dark knight; destroyed at the end setting up the next film of the framed Batman
the dark knight rises; Batman recreating the bat logo on the bridge signifying his return
Every film at least one character finds out Bruce Wayne is batman
BvS continued this by having Batman light up the signal to confront and fight Superman.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 3 Mar 2017, 23:31
Quote from: OutRiddled on Fri, 3 Mar 2017, 21:39
I disagree with that. Keaton was never tempted to retire, he flat out states "This is how it is".
He says that in Batman 89, but in Batman Returns he wanted to retire and settle down with Selina. He unmasks himself right in front of Max Shreck, having previously announced his intent to send Shreck to prison. There was no going back after that. Batman's secret identity was compromised, and Shreck would have told everyone in prison it was Bruce Wayne beneath the cowl. But by that point Bruce didn't care. He just wanted to be with Selina. Forsaking his duel identity was his way of demonstrating his commitment to her and setting an example he hoped she'd follow.
That's a good point, but I saw it as a romantic gesture not that he was giving up Batman. Yes, he did reveal himself to Shreck, but who would believe Shreck anyway?
QuoteSimilarly Kilmer's Batman also wanted to quit and settle down with Chase. He tells Dick as much during the scene where he says "So from this day on, Batman is no more [...] Chase is coming to dinner. I'm going to tell her everything." Until then, Bruce had been driven by guilt stemming from repressed memories of his father's journal. But he'd failed to achieve catharsis through his crusade as Batman and had instead become locked in a cycle of violence; each night replacing the face of his parents' killer with a never-ending gallery of substitutes. He believed he could free himself from that cycle, from his repressed memories and the guilt attached to them, through Chase's help. It was only after he confronted those memories that he became liberated from his guilt and the compulsion to fight crime. And from then on out he chose to continue being batman as a matter of his own volition. But at one point, he definitely intended to discard the cowl and settle down with Chase.
Chase wasn't the cause of him wanting to give up Batman, like you said, he wanted to be free of the guilt "The innocent aren't faceless anymore". Chase just helped bring him out of it.
I thought of another couple of new similarities to compare Batfleck with Burton, Schumacher and Nolan.
- Like Burton and Schumacher, Batfleck is still very much haunted by that night where his parents were brutally shot to death.
- Schumacher's Bat and Batfleck both had visions where they encountered a Man-Bat looking creature. However, the difference is the BF moment was a deleted scene and one where it helped Bruce to recover from his temporary amnesia, whereas Batfleck was suffering from a nightmare that showed the audience his deep-rooted psychological horrors.
- Both Batfleck and Nolan's version had been tricked by the villains at some stage: Lex manipulating Batman's prejudice and fear of Superman to force a fight to the death between the two, TDK Joker fooling Batman into saving Harvey Dent instead of Rachel, as well as tricking everyone by getting caught on purpose to escape with Lau, and Batman being foolishly set up by Catwoman in a trap where he is beaten by Bane.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 4 Mar 2017, 15:40
I thought of another couple of new similarities to compare Batfleck with Burton, Schumacher and Nolan.
- Schumacher's Bat and Batfleck both had visions where they encountered a Man-Bat looking creature. However, the difference is the BF moment was a deleted scene and one where it helped Bruce to recover from his temporary amnesia, whereas Batfleck was suffering from a nightmare that showed the audience his deep-rooted psychological horrors.
It's not just in a deleted scene, Man-Bat is in Batman Forever. Funny how we got two versions of Man-Bat but the character will probably never appear in a film.
Quote from: OutRiddled on Mon, 6 Mar 2017, 23:14
Funny how we got two versions of Man-Bat but the character will probably never appear in a film.
I'm totally up for characters like Man-Bat and Clayface appearing in a new Batman movie at some point. There's so much untapped potential there. They've already put their toes in the water by using Killer Croc in Suicide Squad. B:TAS regularly used these characters and with great success.
Bruce Wayne as we saw him at the beginning of B89 was permanently alienated from society. The idea of maintaining normal friendships or any kind of public persona was just beyond him. When his parents died, that was it. Lights out for Bruce. He was stunted from that day forward. He was even mystified by sex with Vicki. He understood what he was supposed to do, obviously, but he derived no real fulfillment from it. He could be a hero to Vicki in a simplistic way but he could not be a true partner to her. She got him out of his shell but she could not mend his wounds. Not in any lasting kind of way.
Bruce Wayne as we saw him at the beginning of TDKRises was permanently alienated from society. The idea of maintaining normal friendships or any kind of public persona was just beyond him. When Racel died, that was it. Lights out for Bruce AND Batman. He was stunted from that day forward. He was even mystified by sex with Miranda/Talia. He understood what he was supposed to do, obviously, but he derived no real fulfillment from it. His hero days are far behind him, unless there's an opportunity to get himself killed, that is. He wants to be a "hero" again in a simplistic sense so that he can go out in a blaze of glory. But, in the end, nobody can mend his wounds. Not in any lasting kind of way.
In both cases, Bruce was just going through the motions but he wasn't truly invested in his love interests. He couldn't be.
QuoteB89/TDK
Near the beginning there's a few scenes with people talking about "who/what is the Batman".
A scene where the Joker meets the ruling mob, sitting in a long table, and establishes his superiority by killing one of them in a theatrical manner.
The Joker doesn't care about money.
A face off between hero and villain in a long central Gotham street, the Joker on foot and Batman in a vehicle. Both end with Batman crashing.
The final confrontation takes place on a high building, the Joker ends up hanging from somewhere, searchlights illuminating his face.
QuoteBatman Returns/ Batman & Robin
Both male villains have a wintery theme and icy lairs.
Both female villains started as nerdy assistants to an abusive boss, haircut and glasses obscuring the attractiveness of the actress. They both discovered something they weren't supposed to see so their boss tried to kill them. They were "resurrected" by what would become their gimmick. They have dominatrix tendencies and talk like femme fatales from Old Hollywood.