Favourite Schumacher Batsuit?

[Silver Nemesis]

In recent days I've been reevaluating B&R - focusing on what I like rather than what I dislike. I think Riddler still has the top spot in the Schumacher villain department. But I really like Ivy, and think the dynamic between her, Freeze and Bane is stronger than Riddler and Two-Face.

Joel Schumacher often said that he thought Thurman should have gotten more credit for her performance. I get that her interpretation of the character is not to everyone's tastes, but in terms of what the filmmakers were aiming for – a campy, vampish supervillain oozing sex appeal and humour – Thurman knocked it out of the park. She's not phoning it in. She's giving the role her all and attacking it with zest. Again, I get that this isn't to everyone's tastes, but let's face it – the whole concept of Ivy is a pretty whacky idea to begin with. She's very much a product of the Silver Age sixties comics, and her cinematic portrayal is consistent with the tone of that era.

As we've already discussed in other threads, Thurman's Ivy is faithful to the source material. Her origin story, personality, objectives, psychology, sexuality, modus operandi and physical appearance are all accurate to the comics.

Certain scenes in the movie are adapted directly from her early comic stories.

She also has the most vibrant and exotic villain lair to feature in the Burton-Schumacher series. It's like a villain hideout from the sixties TV show, only on a bigger budget and with fewer Dutch camera angles.

Schumacher was trying to evoke classic Hollywood leading ladies with his depiction of Ivy, just as Burton was with his portrayal of Catwoman in Batman Returns. Some have speculated that Pfeiffer based her Catwoman voice on Joan Crawford's, and Burton cited Jacques Tourneur's Cat People (1942) and Douglas Heyes' Kitten with a Whip (1964) as direct influences on her character. Similarly Thurman was channelling Mae West in her performance as Ivy, and her gorilla dance was a tribute to Marlene Dietrich's 'Hot Voodoo' number in Josef von Sternberg's Blonde Venus (1932).

If the viewer can stop punishing the movie for not being like the Burton or Nolan films, accept it for what it is – a camp homage to the Silver Age comics and sixties TV show – and fully enter into the spirit that Schumacher intended, then Thurman's performance is actually pretty funny.

I just wish they hadn't made her up to look like a drag queen during the showdown at the Turkish bath house...

I also think Arnold gave a rather undervalued performance. The Freeze puns are always the focus, but I like the suit and makeup. Mixed in with his muscular build, he looks intimidating. The Freeze gun effects were well done, and it's cool he had a custom vehicle of his own. The Heart of Ice elements give things a degree of poignancy.  In any case, nobody can say he wasn't memorable.

He was definitely memorable. His bulky armoured look is probably not what some fans expected at the time, but it reflects the Kelley Jones version of Mr. Freeze from the mid-nineties.

Incidentally, Freeze cracks a weather forecast pun in that issue (Batman Vol 1 #525) like the one he makes in the movie. In the comic he rolls a frozen severed head towards Batman and says:

"Forecast... head-sized hail."

In the movie he says:

"Tonight's forecast... a freeze is coming!"

Evidently Arnold's Freeze didn't have the monopoly on bad ice puns.

[The Dark Knight]

Joel Schumacher often said that he thought Thurman should have gotten more credit for her performance. I get that her interpretation of the character is not to everyone's tastes, but in terms of what the filmmakers were aiming for – a campy, vampish supervillain oozing sex appeal and humour – Thurman knocked it out of the park. She's not phoning it in. She's giving the role her all and attacking it with zest.

Joel was right. It's incredible to think one of the best manipulators in the Batman films comes from B&R. Thurman's Ivy is believable as a woman of desire who gets her way, with the love dust supercharging those feelings. Ivy works well as a villain because of the effect she has on the heroes.

Big themes of addiction, self control, trust and working relationships come to mind. And a big one: letting go of what you thought was real, which is very difficult to do. The character is way more interesting than given credit for, and is more than just a pretty face, whether we're talking about Thurman or the comics.

I just wish they hadn't made her up to look like a drag queen during the showdown at the Turkish bath house...

That was unfortunate. However the other two costumes were good, with the Flower Ball attire being the best. I think the lime green, skin tight look works well as 'everyday clothes' for someone labelled as a supervillain. Her appearance after officially becoming Ivy is excellent as well.

   

He was definitely memorable. His bulky armoured look is probably not what some fans expected at the time, but it reflects the Kelley Jones version of Mr. Freeze from the mid-nineties.

At the core, Victor was a good man who was consumed with the pursuit of diamonds. I see Ivy as the true villain of the film - she causes the most conflict and screws over Freeze at the end. EisenLex is the overall king of scheming for my money, but Thurman's Ivy isn't to be laughed at:

•   Killed Woodrue, took Bane as her loyal slave and burned the lab down
•   Arrived in Gotham, 10 security guards in hospital, killed one and took his limo
•   Wore a wig to disguise herself and used an alter-ego
•   Stole diamond necklace
•   Seduced the gathering and perhaps convinced Gotham she was a harmless beauty
•   Made her own lair by kicking the original squatters out by force
•   Freed Victor from Arkham, killed two guards
•   Turned Batman and Robin against one another
•   Disabled Nora's life support
•   Tells Freeze Batman killed her
•   Encourages Freeze to punish Gotham, which he then does
•   Stole Gordon's keys and sabotaged the bat signal to lure Robin and kill him
•   Pulls a blade on Batgirl during their fight, and happy to use it

[Silver Nemesis]

That was unfortunate. However the other two costumes were good, with the Flower Ball attire being the best. I think the lime green, skin tight look works well as 'everyday clothes' for someone labelled as a supervillain. Her appearance after officially becoming Ivy is excellent as well.

Agreed. Her classic costume is her best and most iconic look.

To a lesser extent I like the costume she wears when she busts Freeze out of Arkham. That's the outfit she should have worn during her showdown with Batgirl.

At the core, Victor was a good man who was consumed with the pursuit of diamonds. I see Ivy as the true villain of the film - she causes the most conflict and screws over Freeze at the end. EisenLex is the overall king of scheming for my money, but Thurman's Ivy isn't to be laughed at:

•   Killed Woodrue, took Bane as her loyal slave and burned the lab down
•   Arrived in Gotham, 10 security guards in hospital, killed one and took his limo
•   Wore a wig to disguise herself and used an alter-ego
•   Stole diamond necklace
•   Seduced the gathering and perhaps convinced Gotham she was a harmless beauty
•   Made her own lair by kicking the original squatters out by force
•   Freed Victor from Arkham, killed two guards
•   Turned Batman and Robin against one another
•   Disabled Nora's life support
•   Tells Freeze Batman killed her
•   Encourages Freeze to punish Gotham, which he then does
•   Stole Gordon's keys and sabotaged the bat signal to lure Robin and kill him
•   Pulls a blade on Batgirl during their fight, and happy to use it

I don't tend to think of Ivy as being one of the deadlier Batman movie villains, but when you lay out her crimes like that she actually killed more people on screen than Pfeiffer's Catwoman, DeVito's Penguin or Carrey's Riddler. Batman ultimately defeated Freeze by reasoning with him, but there could be no reasoning with someone as demented as Ivy.

[The Dark Knight]

I don't tend to think of Ivy as being one of the deadlier Batman movie villains, but when you lay out her crimes like that she actually killed more people on screen than Pfeiffer's Catwoman, DeVito's Penguin or Carrey's Riddler. Batman ultimately defeated Freeze by reasoning with him, but there could be no reasoning with someone as demented as Ivy.

It makes perfect sense. The best way to gain followers is to charm them. To make them trust you. To make them feel like you have their best interests at heart – which Ivy managed to do with Freeze. It's all about being confident and friendly, hiding in plain sight and having a dark personality that no one but your victim ultimately sees. Ivy ticks a lot of boxes.