Batman Forever Comic Book Influences

[BatmAngelus]

Great job, Silver!

I apologize for finding these late since the feature has been in edit mode for awhile, but I finally dug up the Official Batman Forever movie magazine from 1995.  It's in rough condition, but still readable. 

Here's a few quotes that will, I'm sure, blow the minds of people who think Schumacher was just aping the the 60s series and nothing else.  Say what you will about his execution in adapting Batman, but Schumacher's films draw just as much from the comics as Burton's and Nolan's did.

The first quote is a vague confirmation from Chris O'Donnell himself that the Robin in the movie has elements of Jason Todd and Tim Drake.

The writers encouraged me to do some research, so I went back and read all the comics (best homework assignment I ever had!).  I discovered that Robin had a much richer and more complicated history than I had thought.  Batman has actually had three partners. [...] Obviously, there could be only one Robin in the movie, but which one?  After much deliberation, Joel [Schumacher] and the writers had narrowed it down to the original, Dick Grayson, but they incorporated elements of the other two to make him more contemporary.

- Chris O'Donnell, "Introduction," Batman Forever Official Movie Magazine (p. 2)
This could fit in on Page 4, right before Silver goes into Jason Todd's origin and feud with Two-Face.

I'm not sure if any of the comics in the article were specifically written by Dennis O'Neil, but he was the DC Editor during the Knightfall era (and when the film came out) and actually visited the set.  I thought this was a cool quote about his reaction to the Gotham City sets.

It was as I'd been imagining it since I wrote my first Batman story nearly 27 years ago.  I felt as though I were strolling through the inside of my own skull.

- Dennis O'Neil, "Believer on the Backlot," Batman Forever Official Movie Magazine (p. 6)
I'll leave it up to Silver and Paul to include it or not (and where).

Also interesting is this quote from O'Neil:

I love movies and this was a Batman movie- judging from the script, which I'd read several months earlier, maybe the best Batman movie.

The best confirmation on the comic book influences is an article about production designer Barbara Ling.

As the one person most responsible for designing the look of Batman Forever, you can bet production designer Barbara Ling read DC Comics' seminal graphic novel The Dark Knight Returns not once, but many times.  "The main thing was to pore through the comics before anything happened," Ling says.  "That's where Batman comes from, and that's where the look should come from.  The comics lay the foundation."  It's clear that Batman comics have provided a big inspiration for Batman Forever.  Indeed, Lynn Varley's beautiful color washes from The Dark Knight Returns were no small inspiration for Ling and director Joel Schumacher's decision to make this Batman film more color-saturated than the previous two."

- "Inside Batman's World," Batman Forever Official Movie Magazine (p.56)
You read that right.  The inspiration for the neon look of Schumacher's Gotham came from...The Dark Knight Returns.  Cue fanboy rage!

The Ling quote could be paired with the first mention of The Dark Knight Returns on Page 2, perhaps after the Two-Face analysis and right before the first Dark Knight Returns citation with the goons calling him "Face."

The next one may require an additional write-up, since it pertains to the movie's redesigned Batmobile:

Ling had the gargantuan task of supervising the look of almost every aspect of the film and making sure it fit with the director's vision.  For example, in designing the new Batmobile, Ling got downright historical.  "The big thing was going back to the very first Batman comics.  It was only done in the first couple of issues, but the Batmobile had a single fin on top."  The issue she's referring to is Batman #5, which featured the first appearance of the Batmobile, published way back in 1941.  "The funky single fin on top was a great image that was lost later on," Ling says.

- "Inside Batman's World," Batman Forever Official Movie Magazine (p. 56)
I believe this is a panel showing the comic book Batmobile that was used as reference: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ju0fDMneXA/TAnyopgzaCI/AAAAAAAAApk/xvvvJig7Z3s/s1600/Batman+5-1+-4+recut.JPG
Silver may have a scan of a better example, though.

[Bobthegoon89]

Great job, Silver!

I apologize for finding these late since the feature has been in edit mode for awhile, but I finally dug up the Official Batman Forever movie magazine from 1995.  It's in rough condition, but still readable. 

Here's a few quotes that will, I'm sure, blow the minds of people who think Schumacher was just aping the the 60s series and nothing else.  Say what you will about his execution in adapting Batman, but Schumacher's films draw just as much from the comics as Burton's and Nolan's did.

The first quote is a vague confirmation from Chris O'Donnell himself that the Robin in the movie has elements of Jason Todd and Tim Drake.

The writers encouraged me to do some research, so I went back and read all the comics (best homework assignment I ever had!).  I discovered that Robin had a much richer and more complicated history than I had thought.  Batman has actually had three partners. [...] Obviously, there could be only one Robin in the movie, but which one?  After much deliberation, Joel [Schumacher] and the writers had narrowed it down to the original, Dick Grayson, but they incorporated elements of the other two to make him more contemporary.

- Chris O'Donnell, "Introduction," Batman Forever Official Movie Magazine (p. 2)
This could fit in on Page 4, right before Silver goes into Jason Todd's origin and feud with Two-Face.

I'm not sure if any of the comics in the article were specifically written by Dennis O'Neil, but he was the DC Editor during the Knightfall era (and when the film came out) and actually visited the set.  I thought this was a cool quote about his reaction to the Gotham City sets.

It was as I'd been imagining it since I wrote my first Batman story nearly 27 years ago.  I felt as though I were strolling through the inside of my own skull.

- Dennis O'Neil, "Believer on the Backlot," Batman Forever Official Movie Magazine (p. 6)
I'll leave it up to Silver and Paul to include it or not (and where).

Also interesting is this quote from O'Neil:

I love movies and this was a Batman movie- judging from the script, which I'd read several months earlier, maybe the best Batman movie.

The best confirmation on the comic book influences is an article about production designer Barbara Ling.

As the one person most responsible for designing the look of Batman Forever, you can bet production designer Barbara Ling read DC Comics' seminal graphic novel The Dark Knight Returns not once, but many times.  "The main thing was to pore through the comics before anything happened," Ling says.  "That's where Batman comes from, and that's where the look should come from.  The comics lay the foundation."  It's clear that Batman comics have provided a big inspiration for Batman Forever.  Indeed, Lynn Varley's beautiful color washes from The Dark Knight Returns were no small inspiration for Ling and director Joel Schumacher's decision to make this Batman film more color-saturated than the previous two."

- "Inside Batman's World," Batman Forever Official Movie Magazine (p.56)
You read that right.  The inspiration for the neon look of Schumacher's Gotham came from...The Dark Knight Returns.  Cue fanboy rage!

The Ling quote could be paired with the first mention of The Dark Knight Returns on Page 2, perhaps after the Two-Face analysis and right before the first Dark Knight Returns citation with the goons calling him "Face."

The next one may require an additional write-up, since it pertains to the movie's redesigned Batmobile:

Ling had the gargantuan task of supervising the look of almost every aspect of the film and making sure it fit with the director's vision.  For example, in designing the new Batmobile, Ling got downright historical.  "The big thing was going back to the very first Batman comics.  It was only done in the first couple of issues, but the Batmobile had a single fin on top."  The issue she's referring to is Batman #5, which featured the first appearance of the Batmobile, published way back in 1941.  "The funky single fin on top was a great image that was lost later on," Ling says.

- "Inside Batman's World," Batman Forever Official Movie Magazine (p. 56)
I believe this is a panel showing the comic book Batmobile that was used as reference: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ju0fDMneXA/TAnyopgzaCI/AAAAAAAAApk/xvvvJig7Z3s/s1600/Batman+5-1+-4+recut.JPG
Silver may have a scan of a better example, though.

I actually remember buying this magazine when I was about 7 when the third film came out. I still have it and have read many times. In fact I read before seeing the movie. Most of these quotes are ingrained in my memory and this is possibly why I am more forgiving than most about the film. Yes Denny O' Neil said that! lol I guess he's changed his mind since then because he descirbed Batman Begins as the best of the Batman's by a wide margin. I beg to differ myself. But it clearly shows that what we think is fantastic and (then) current may end up being turned on it's head someday (are you reading Nolan fans???).

Barbara Ling must have used Dark Knight Returns. There is clearly a two toned Two-Face hideout in Miller's story which clearly inspired her set design.

As for those Neon signs that everyone hates I have clearly seen Neon signage used in Batman the animated series too. In several episodes. I actually think that series was Schumacher's greatest inspiration on his films. I agree that the Neon does get a little extreme. As a kid I loved the new Batmobile's glorious blue light lit engine. Now of course it's why is Batman driving around in a lit up "bulls eye" target for his foes? Then I realised hang on...it's a Batmobile!!! How on earth can you not miss seeing it whether lit up or not? Michael Keaton's and Christian Bale's models are clearly noticed. This vehicle is not specifically designed to be inconspicuous as you think folks lol

[Azrael]

Not much to say, as always a fascinating read and great to finally see it in the main site.

[Silver Nemesis]

Wow, that's probably the best collection of quotes on this subject I've ever seen! It actually makes me appreciate the movie a lot more. It's especially gratifying to get confirmation of our theory about the amalgamated Robins from Chris O'Donnell.

It's funny that they source the neon Gotham in the The Dark Knight Returns. TDKR has one of the most drab and monochrome depictions of Gotham ever. I can't imagine how they translated that into what we see in the movie. Maybe Schumacher's copy was printed with the wrong colours or something.

It would add a lot of weight to the feature if some of these quotes could be added. Now I just wish we could find similar quotes for Batman Returns.

[Bobthegoon89]

Wow, that's probably the best collection of quotes on this subject I've ever seen! It actually makes me appreciate the movie a lot more. It's especially gratifying to get confirmation of our theory about the amalgamated Robins from Chris O'Donnell.

It's funny that they source the neon Gotham in the The Dark Knight Returns. TDKR has one of the most drab and monochrome depictions of Gotham ever. I can't imagine how they translated that into what we see in the movie. Maybe Schumacher's copy was printed with the wrong colours or something.

It would add a lot of weight to the feature if some of these quotes could be added. Now I just wish we could find similar quotes for Batman Returns.

I always found Chris O' Donnell's intro interesting in that they had to apparently choose which Robin to use out of the three. Thank god they rightfully went for Dick Grayson. Schumacher was not misguided there. I've never liked all those different Robin's and Bob Kane highlights his own disgust for Jason Todd in his biography. My issue is they all look the same! Plus Tim Drake being at Dick Grayson's parents murder scene? I mean c'mon that's hokey comic book storytelling at it's finest. I never bought that nonsense. I really wish they would turn Grayson back into the original and official Robin as I get fed up of him being fully trapped as Nightwing. Him being a mirror of Bruce Wayne is what makes him more essential to me.

[BatmAngelus]

The feature should be updated with the magazine quotes above.

Also, I feel as if Batman's midnight visit to Chase's apartment is reminiscent of his visit to Silver St. Cloud in The Laughing Fish.  Both women are near naked when Batman arrives and mention/reference his other identity as Bruce Wayne to send him away.  The novelization even goes as far as revealing that Chase has figured out that Bruce and Batman are the same man already- something that Silver is well known for figuring out in the comics.

Any thoughts?

[thecolorsblend]

It's funny that they source the neon Gotham in the The Dark Knight Returns. TDKR has one of the most drab and monochrome depictions of Gotham ever. I can't imagine how they translated that into what we see in the movie. Maybe Schumacher's copy was printed with the wrong colours or something.

Unless I've goofed something up, there should be an attachment included. This is about the most I could find in TDKR that might've been used as some sort of influence.

I think the most likely explanation is that the production team knew to mention the title to placate fans.

[Paul (ral)]

The feature should be updated with the magazine quotes above.

Also, I feel as if Batman's midnight visit to Chase's apartment is reminiscent of his visit to Silver St. Cloud in The Laughing Fish.  Both women are near naked when Batman arrives and mention/reference his other identity as Bruce Wayne to send him away.  The novelization even goes as far as revealing that Chase has figured out that Bruce and Batman are the same man already- something that Silver is well known for figuring out in the comics.

Any thoughts?

I'll get them on tomorrow.

[BatmAngelus]

Thanks, Paul.

A couple other observations, smaller than the ones in the current article:

- For the first time, Bruce Wayne is shown to be friends with Commissioner Gordon, harking back to their first appearances in Detective Comics #27.  Yes, Bruce invited Gordon to his party in B89, but considering that Vicki Vale was also invited without even knowing the man, this hardly counts as evidence that they were friends then.

Here, Gordon calls on Bruce personally for both Stickley's suicide and for helping out with Dick Grayson and is clearly on a first name basis with him, calling him "Bruce" instead of "Mr. Wayne."

- One notable addition to the Batcave in Forever is the large Bat symbol hanging on the wall in the background, behind the Batmobile. 
http://www.mdcu-comics.fr/upload/dossiers/01/70_batcave/dossiers_illustre_1272101430.jpg

This could take cues from the 1943 Batman serial, where a large bat silhouette was in the background when the serial introduced Batman brooding in "The Bat's Cave" for the first time. 
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090608123658/batman/images/4/4c/Bats_Cave.png

This bat-on-the-wall was later adopted into the 1940s comic strips.  For example, it can be seen in "Batman's Underground Study" in the overall map of the Batcave.
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/culture_test/Batcave-Circa-1943.jpg

[thecolorsblend]

Not sure if anyone else ever mentioned it but there is a bit of a similarity between the Chase/Batman scene at her place and the beginning of Detective Comics #475/The Laughing Fish, where Batman pays a visit to Silver St. Cloud.