Batman Forever Comic Book Influences

[thecolorsblend]

Yeah - Mark was on Kevin Smith's Fatman on Batman Smodcast - a great 2 part interview (and they mentioned Star Wars maybe twice for about 20secs in total!). I could listen to Mark talk for hours!

I had absolutely positively no idea what you were talking about here so... to the Google, old chum! Fvcks sake, man, Smith had Paul Dini, Hamill, Bruce Timm, the whole son of a buck. Listening to part 1 of the Hamill thing right now. Loving it!

[Paul (ral)]

Yeah, I have only just discovered them myself. Flippin awesome stuff.

[thecolorsblend]

I've listened to the Dini and Hamill episodes so far. I tend to prefer the Dini episode because I like the creative stuff more than the performance stuff. Cool episodes. Thanks for mentioning this as I might not otherwise have found out about them.

[greggbray]

Just here to echo awe of this thread.  I have warmed up to BF over the last year or more.  While not my favorite interpretation of the comics, some of these influences (direct or indirect) really have given it some additional credence. 

I love these threads!

[thecolorsblend]

Just here to echo awe of this thread.  I have warmed up to BF over the last year or more.  While not my favorite interpretation of the comics, some of these influences (direct or indirect) really have given it some additional credence.

I think what's retroactively improving it in my eyes is my disappointment with Nolan's films (not trying to start a pissing contest with anyone, just imparting my feelings) along with listening to the score. It's big, bold and loud in several obvious sections but it also has a surprising tenderness. It's not just bombastic noise. There are dynamics in play.

Look, I can't sit here and talk smack about how I'm some kind of big expert on movie scores. All I can tell you is how much the musical cues strike me. But there's a lot to appreciate about Goldenthal's work.

[greggbray]

In terms of retroactively improving, I may be in the other direction.  Bear with me for a moment.

As I had mentioned elsewhere, my favorite stories about Two-Face are how he *became* Two-Face.  Even post scarring, the material that recalls Harvey Dent pre-scarring are the strongest moments for the character (again, thinking No Man's Land and some of Rucka's writings). 

Other than that, he settles too quickly into becoming a villain with a gimmick.  Batman Forever?  He's more or less a gimmick villain.  Which, to be fair, he certainly was in the comics as well, though the recent comics in particular really invested in him and peel back the layers a bit.  Batman Forever sort of fetishizes the gimmick--right down to having two different looking 'molls.' 

I really enjoyed The Dark Knight, and having seen Two-Face created that are in line with my personal tastes for the character,  I no longer really have that nagging 'what could have been' feeling when watching Tommy Lee Jones play Cesar Romero  Harvey Dent. I can watch the film and have little concern about whether or not Two-Face is up my alley.

I also will echo your appreciation of the score.  There are a few bombastic blasts here and there that don't work for me, but other than that the score is certainly more than servicable.  I've listened to the score less than the Elfman scores, of course, but I think at least in BF Goldenthal does a nice job of matching his music to the material. 

[The Dark Knight]

Two-Face had an obsession with duality in his behaviour, but we don't see that with his moods. The goofy side doesn't have a place with the character in my opinion. It's either regret/remorse/thinking things through or no prisoners/act now. Light and dark. However - if the movie had the goofy side mixed in with another mood, it would've been a start. At the end of the day (week, month or year, take your pick) it is what it is. People who like this kind of thing, all the power to them.

[BatmAngelus]

Sorry to derail Batman Forever discussion, but the current topic does bring me to something I've been thinking about for awhile. 

Personally, I find Two-Face to be one of the most misused characters.  I never understood the obsession with "twos" as a result of the accident.  I know it's been there since the beginning, but as Gregg says, it reduces him to a gimmick villain.  Also, many versions make it seem as if his Harvey Dent personality was completely wiped out once the acid hit his face.

One thing that I think that TDK 's Two-Face at least nailed (and this was covered in more detail in Two-Face's monologue to Grace in BTAS Two-Face Part II) was that Dent's view of morality changed after the scarring incident and he believed that fate/chance was the only "great equalizer."  There's a line from the TV show Person of Interest in which Reese says "Maybe there aren't any good people.  Only good decisions." 

I think Harvey would believe this, too, and that his obsession wouldn't be with the number two, but with chance.  He wouldn't believe in a good and bad anymore and instead, he'd completely rely on chance and a flip of the coin to dictate his decisions. 

I see Two-Face as the ultimate wildcard, maybe moreso than Catwoman.  Sometimes he helps Batman, sometimes he fights Batman.  The tragedy is that he's sacrificed all power to the coin and Bruce/Batman always tries to bring him back to sanity and restore the sense of morality he had before the accident.

[Paul (ral)]

Now a feature...http://www.batman-online.com/features/2012/10/1/comic-influences-on-batman-forever-1995

But if you want to read it, you gotta help us get 2000 likes on Facebook and 1500 followers on twitter!

[Paul (ral)]

I didn't think we would meet our target anytime soon so the feature is now active