DC fans and their petitions...

[riddler]

RT is working with a flawed model in that many reviewers eschew a numerical-based system for rating films. And even those who don't still use numerical systems that may not be reconcilable with one another.

In the case of BVS, something was rotten in Denmark as many reviews they listed as negative were either positive or else middle of the road but were categorized as negative for some arbitrary, unknown criteria. That affected the popular view of the movie. And it looks like someone was prepared for the same thing with Suicide Squad.

The other thing is RT is wide open to manipulation. TDK had something like a 96% rating three or four week after its release. THE FREAKING GODFATHER didn't have a score that high. It's just insane!

The thing I don't like about RT is it's too black and white. They basically grade films on a pass/fail basis and as you said it is subjective on what is a pass and what is a fail. For all it's faults the IMDB is more accurate. We all know there's spam accounts that stuff ratings but it's at least rated by moviegoers and not professional critics with agendas.

[Catwoman]

RT is working with a flawed model in that many reviewers eschew a numerical-based system for rating films. And even those who don't still use numerical systems that may not be reconcilable with one another.

In the case of BVS, something was rotten in Denmark as many reviews they listed as negative were either positive or else middle of the road but were categorized as negative for some arbitrary, unknown criteria. That affected the popular view of the movie. And it looks like someone was prepared for the same thing with Suicide Squad.

The other thing is RT is wide open to manipulation. TDK had something like a 96% rating three or four week after its release. THE FREAKING GODFATHER didn't have a score that high. It's just insane!

The thing I don't like about RT is it's too black and white. They basically grade films on a pass/fail basis and as you said it is subjective on what is a pass and what is a fail. For all it's faults the IMDB is more accurate. We all know there's spam accounts that stuff ratings but it's at least rated by moviegoers and not professional critics with agendas.

Thats exactly what I was going to say, the black and white thing.

[Silver Nemesis]

I honestly don't get the hostility some people have towards Rotten Tomatoes. The RT editors don't write the reviews, they just maintain the aggregator. Hating RT is like hating a newspaper for reporting bad news.

RT is working with a flawed model in that many reviewers eschew a numerical-based system for rating films. And even those who don't still use numerical systems that may not be reconcilable with one another.

In the case of BVS, something was rotten in Denmark as many reviews they listed as negative were either positive or else middle of the road but were categorized as negative for some arbitrary, unknown criteria. That affected the popular view of the movie. And it looks like someone was prepared for the same thing with Suicide Squad.

Critics decide for themselves whether it's 'Fresh' or 'Rotten' when they submit a review. In the case of older reviews when the critic may no longer be alive, the RT editors evaluate the tone of the article and attribute a 'Fresh'/'Rotten' status accordingly. Numerical factors, such as ratings out of 5 or 10, are usually irrelevant. One critic may rate a film 3/5 for its technical merits but still not recommend it, while another might score it 2/4 but still categorise it as 'Fresh'. It's best to think of the 'Fresh'/'Rotten' binary as analogous to Siskel and Ebert's thumbs up/thumbs down system; a method for advising casual cinemagoers whether or not it's worth spending their hard-earned cash seeing this movie. The figure that really counts is the average critic rating, which in Suicide Squad's case is presently 4.7/10 - the lowest of any DCEU film to date.

For an aggregator site that determines overall score on a more mathematical basis, there's always Metacritic. Their Metascores are calculated based on critic ratings rather than the thumbs up/thumbs down system used by the RT Tomatometer. Suicide's Squad's Metascore is currently 41 - which is also the lowest of any DCEU film to date.

The other thing is RT is wide open to manipulation. TDK had something like a 96% rating three or four week after its release. THE FREAKING GODFATHER didn't have a score that high. It's just insane!

The Godfather has an RT score of 99% with an average critic rating of 9.2/10.

The Dark Knight has an RT score of 94% with an average critic rating of 8.6/10.

Unless RT staff have subtracted some negative reviews since 2008, The Godfather's score would always have been higher than The Dark Knight's.

The only time I recall RT staff intentionally attempting to sway audience perception of a film was when Senior Editor Gray Drake told fans to ignore the Man of Steel reviews and go see the movie back in 2013. Could the fact RT is owned by Flixster – of which Warner Bros owns a 30% share – have influenced her opinion? And could that also explain why so many DC movies are rated 'Fresh' on RT?

Batman: The Movie (1966) – RT 80% 'Fresh'
Superman: The Movie (1978) – RT 93% 'Certified Fresh'
Superman II (1980) – RT 89% 'Certified Fresh'
Swamp Thing (1982) – RT 64% 'Fresh'
Batman (1989) – RT 72% 'Fresh'
Batman Returns (1992) – RT 80% 'Certified Fresh'
Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (1993) – RT 82% 'Fresh'
The Batman Superman Movie: World's Finest (1997) – RT 83% 'Fresh'
Batman & Mr Freeze: Subzero (1998) – RT 90% 'Fresh'
Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker (2000) – RT 88% 'Fresh'
Batman Begins (2005) – RT 84% 'Certified Fresh'
Superman Returns (2006) – RT 76% 'Certified Fresh'
Superman II: The Donner Cut (2006) – RT 90% 'Fresh'
V for Vendetta (2006) – RT 73% 'Certified Fresh'
Batman: Gotham Knight (2008) – RT 83% 'Fresh'
The Dark Knight (2008) – RT 94% 'Certified Fresh'
Watchmen (2009) – RT 65% 'Fresh'
Wonder Woman (2009) – RT 88% 'Fresh'
Batman: Under the Red Hood (2010) – RT 100% 'Fresh'
Batman: Year One (2011) – RT 88% 'Fresh'
The Dark Knight Rises (2012) – RT 87% 'Certified Fresh'
Superman vs. the Elite (2012) – RT 80% 'Fresh'
Batman: The Dark Knight Returns Part 1 (2012) – RT 100% 'Fresh'
Superman Unbound (2013) – RT 100% 'Fresh'
Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox (2013) – RT 100%
Son of Batman (2014) – RT 70% 'Fresh'
Batman vs. Robin (2015) – RT 100% 'Fresh'

Or could it simply be the case that those were objectively good films and DC's more recent efforts have not been? If RT editors had intentionally inflated the score for The Dark Knight, why did they not also do this for Man of Steel, Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad?

The thing I don't like about RT is it's too black and white. They basically grade films on a pass/fail basis and as you said it is subjective on what is a pass and what is a fail.

RT also offers average critic ratings, but most people who visit the site don't bother to look at them.

For all it's faults the IMDB is more accurate. We all know there's spam accounts that stuff ratings but it's at least rated by moviegoers and not professional critics with agendas.

Moviegoers have agendas too. Which is why they spam the IMDb with 1s and 10s from their sock accounts before even seeing the latest comic book film. The IMDb rating system is broken and may very well be the least accurate method of evaluating a film's quality.

[The Laughing Fish]

The other thing is RT is wide open to manipulation. TDK had something like a 96% rating three or four week after its release.THE FREAKING GODFATHER[/b] didn't have a score that high. It's just insane!

The fact that overrated pile of rubbish is rated that highly is sad enough. On a separate point, I find hypocritical that BvS is being derided as a "bleak, miserable film" when that criticism can easily be applied to TDK, even more so. But going back on topic...

I've always hated RottenTomatoes, but that particular petition comes off as a little whiny and self-serving.

With RottenTomatoes, I think that putting the emphasis on critics doesn't always work, since not all critics are equally trustworthy (IMO). It seems like IMDb scores hit a little closer to the point most of the time.

Websites need to stop reporting on stupid petitions created by hopeless fans.

Yeah, same with sites that record individual tweets as accurate feedback in the midst of obvious trolling.

Agreed. Whoever created this petition is only making a bad reflection on all DC fans. If I wanted to make a call to action, I'd encourage all film fans to ignore the critics and judge something for yourself.