Bat-Keaton to be referenced in upcoming Arrowverse crossover

[The Dark Knight]

I think Keats' Bruce Wayne was social enough. In both films he starred in, we see Bruce at parties. He's clearly recognized by one of Joker's mime goons during the shootout, so he's a known figure (despite Vicki's initial obliviousness). Evidently, Keats' Bruce is also, if not friendly, atleast acquainted with Gotham political figures (Mayor & probably the District Attorney) as stated in BR. He's just not as flamboyant as he's sometimes depicted in the comics, or say the Nolan films where Bale's Bruce is often seen in public (sometimes swimming) with no less than two girls. With Selina, I can see her perhaps returning to Gotham that following Christmas, and becoming something of a socialite. Over the course of BR, we already got the indication that she's moved well beyond her life as a secretary.

But it's just a nice easter egg to the Burtonverse, that's not much more canon than any other fan fiction post-Batman Returns. So whatever. I do appreciate the thought/inclusion.

I don't necessarily think the mime goon recognized Bruce as being Bruce Wayne, but rather interacted with him because he was standing alone on the street, making himself vulnerable to such a show. Bruce had the fundraiser in B89 but nobody approached him. Bruce was "not interested" in attending Max's ball because that's his first instinct. He only changes his mind because Selina could turn up. And a snide comment from Max aside, he didn't speak to anyone else other than his initial target of Selina. He is predatory in the sense he prefers isolated encounters, such as Vicki at the Wayne Manor dinner table or Selina in front of the fireplace. I agree that Keaton's Bruce is still a known figure to a degree, but he nonetheless managed to maintain a mysterious distance from the public. Bruce and Selina marrying is something that would suit Bale, but not Keaton.

[The Laughing Fish]

The Arrowverse has been treading a lot of nostalgia within the past few years, with 90s Flash making a return, the heavy-handed nods to Reeve's Superman, and now this little nod to Burton's Batman. Call me cynical, but I think this has to do with the producers - particularly somebody who is influential as Geoff Johns - having a huge hard-on for the past, and not so much for the present. I loved the idea of Shipp playing Barry Allen again, but when I still see Hoechlin's Superman remaining a Reeve parody, it makes me roll my eyes.

Which leads me to suspect the people in charge of DC Entertainment, from a creative standpoint, are very nostalgic by nature. Other examples include Superman's classic costume making a return to the comics which departed from the DC Rebirth design, as well as John Williams and Danny Elfman's Superman and Batman themes making musical cameos in the butchered JL theatrical release. I wouldn't have cared so much, if Johns didn't play a part in sabotaging JL, with his "hope and optimism" agenda. Whether Johns was a fan of Burton's work on Batman or not, I wouldn't be surprised if he ordered the Elfman theme to make an appearance, because it's no secret he was never supportive of Snyder's vision. Replacing Junkie XL with Elfman is a telling example. I wouldn't be surprised if he never liked Nolan either.

Getting back on topic, I've noticed DC content haven't been celebrating Nolan's crap as much as they used to, let alone DCEU which had been left to drag through the mud. The focus seems to be affection for the Burton era. Could it be because of B89's 30th anniversary? Maybe. Time will tell if this Arrowverse Easter egg is just taking advantage of a trend, or it's a genuine affection for a bygone era. Like the rose-tinted glasses people have for the Reeve era.

One more thing I want to say: I'm not saying Geoff Johns is a producer on Crisis. I don't know. But what I do know is his reverence towards the past - particularly Reeve's Superman - evokes how the company and fans can't really move forward.

[The Joker]

I don't necessarily think the mime goon recognized Bruce as being Bruce Wayne, but rather interacted with him because he was standing alone on the street, making himself vulnerable to such a show. Bruce had the fundraiser in B89 but nobody approached him. Bruce was "not interested" in attending Max's ball because that's his first instinct. He only changes his mind because Selina could turn up. And a snide comment from Max aside, he didn't speak to anyone else other than his initial target of Selina. He is predatory in the sense he prefers isolated encounters, such as Vicki at the Wayne Manor dinner table or Selina in front of the fireplace. I agree that Keaton's Bruce is still a known figure to a degree, but he nonetheless managed to maintain a mysterious distance from the public. Bruce and Selina marrying is something that would suit Bale, but not Keaton.

We agree that Keats' Bruce Wayne is one of the more publicly reserved out of the live action Bruce Wayne's, but apparently where we diverge is to the extent of how much he's withdrawn from social circles. In '89, I kinda got the sense that Bruce would be good with any and all social parties pertaining to fundraisers/charities he would consider good causes. We don't really get just how many he's thrown/attended in his life, but probably more than just a handful. In '92, it's conveyed he's also politically connected, and has likely attended meetings with Gotham's rich and powerful for some time due to how his demeanor was rather comfortable and relaxed when he decided to oppose Max in their one-on-one meeting. I don't believe that Keats' Bruce Wayne sought the spotlight, or liked to make a scene out of himself like Bale's Bruce, we agree, but I also don't believe he was anywhere near as a tortured recluse as Bale's Bruce eventually became following 'The Dark Knight' either. Attending social parties just for the fun of it, wasn't his style, and I'm sure one being thrown by Max was automatically off-putting, but if there was an ulterior motive that made going/attending/throwing such events worth it, I don't see being opposed to them either. In terms of Bruce and Selina, I saw a dramatic softening of his exterior to the point where he literally threw caution to the wind in trying to reach her. We'll never know how any future interactions, post-BR, would have been handled by Burton and co., but I can't imagine that he would have stopped trying knowing she was alive, or in CW's scenario, Selina returning to Gotham at some point as a socialite that was justifiably far removed from how she was introduced in BR. I'll even go one step further and say such a pursuit may or may not have taken some initial prompting from Michael Gough's Alfred. Which, with Gough's Alfred, is very easy to imagine.

I'm not saying Geoff Johns is a producer on Crisis. I don't know. But what I do know is his reverence towards the past - particularly Reeve's Superman - evokes how the company and fans can't really move forward.

I think you're right on the money with this. Johns' infatuation with the Donner/Reeve Superman is undoubtedly apparent. I remember following Infinite Crisis in 2005, the Byrne MOS, Loeb All Seasons, Waid Birthright stuff took a backseat to something much more akin to Donner's Superman. Even to the extent that Donner himself was invited to co-write a story line with Johns in the Superman books not all that long after. Then there was Johns' telling of Superman's backstory with Secret Origin, which brought in some more Pre-Crisis elements, but it was clear as day that Reeve's Superman was being evoked in the story.

[johnnygobbs]

It's now been reported that Robert Wuhl may be making an appearance as Alexander Knox in the Arrowverse crossover: https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/10/13/batman-89-robert-wuhl-alexander-knox-crisis-on-infinite-earths/

[The Joker]

I have to say, this crossover is just continuing to get more interesting.

[thecolorsblend]

I do kind of enjoy the socialite angle for Selina. In one sense, I always assumed that she was on a suicide run. She was taking Max out one way or the other and I don't think she ever planned on surviving. At least not originally.

But you could argue that since she was Max's secretary assistant, it's no stretch at all to think she has all his dox. Maybe she could have rewritten his will so that she inherits everything in the event of his "untimely" demise. Chip doesn't have two IQ points to rub together so he wouldn't be a problem. Although if he was, what the hey, why not knock him off too? Max, wherever he is, just might appreciate the coldheartedness of her actions.

Selina disappears for a few years, maybe sorts out her demons and returns to Gotham maybe ready to pick up where she and Bruce left off.

He's not exactly the picture of normalcy himself though, now is he? I could imagine that it just might take him 27 years to get to a point where he could marry her and really mean it.

All in all, this isn't a major stretch, boys and girls.

[The Joker]

When you take a step back, and realize that we're now discussing, under the CW lens, that Burton's Batman is apart of a live action crossover multiverse now. A MULTIVERSE.

Kinda goes without saying that, sure, quite a bit can be feasible these days, no?

[Azrael]

Yes. Things are interesting. The time when one had to be almost "apologetic" for being a fan of Burton's Batman, is only but a memory.
I've never watched any of the CW shows except the first few episodes of Arrow Season One, but I'm also interested in this.

[The Laughing Fish]

I think you're right on the money with this. Johns' infatuation with the Donner/Reeve Superman is undoubtedly apparent. I remember following Infinite Crisis in 2005, the Byrne MOS, Loeb All Seasons, Waid Birthright stuff took a backseat to something much more akin to Donner's Superman. Even to the extent that Donner himself was invited to co-write a story line with Johns in the Superman books not all that long after. Then there was Johns' telling of Superman's backstory with Secret Origin, which brought in some more Pre-Crisis elements, but it was clear as day that Reeve's Superman was being evoked in the story.

I haven't read Secret Origin by Geoff Johns and Gary Frank, but I have read their work on Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes. Frank is another creative who is a devout Reeve fan - even publicly acknowledging he models his Superman after him - and the resemblance in the comics certainly shows. Even aping Reeve's Clark Kent clumsy modest reporter act. I don't mind paying the occasional homage, but it gets to a point where it becomes stale. Even their depiction of Thomas Wayne in Batman: Earth One Vol. 1 has a strong resemblance to Reeve. It gets too much. For better or worse, none of the Batman actors are really revered in such a manner where the character are heavily modeled after them in the comics. Then again, you can say we've had the opposite: the only actor who consistently resembled Bruce Wayne in the comics was Affleck, who looks like a Jim Aparo drawing come to life, and his Batman obviously looked like from Frank Miller's art. 

I've heard about the rumour of Robert Wuhl possibly making a cameo as Knox, but I'm rather cautious about how Burtonverse plays in Crisis of Infinite Earths, if at all. If it does play any significant part, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the whole world gets destroyed by the Anti-Monitor. Which would be a big FU to Burton fans, and a complete waste of time.

We'll see.

[The Joker]

I haven't read Secret Origin by Geoff Johns and Gary Frank, but I have read their work on Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes. Frank is another creative who is a devout Reeve fan - even publicly acknowledging he models his Superman after him - and the resemblance in the comics certainly shows. Even aping Reeve's Clark Kent clumsy modest reporter act. I don't mind paying the occasional homage, but it gets to a point where it becomes stale. Even their depiction of Thomas Wayne in Batman: Earth One Vol. 1 has a strong resemblance to Reeve. It gets too much. For better or worse, none of the Batman actors are really revered in such a manner where the character are heavily modeled after them in the comics. Then again, you can say we've had the opposite: the only actor who consistently resembled Bruce Wayne in the comics was Affleck, who looks like a Jim Aparo drawing come to life, and his Batman obviously looked like from Frank Miller's art. 

I've heard about the rumour of Robert Wuhl possibly making a cameo as Knox, but I'm rather cautious about how Burtonverse plays in Crisis of Infinite Earths, if at all. If it does play any significant part, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the whole world gets destroyed by the Anti-Monitor. Which would be a big FU to Burton fans, and a complete waste of time.

We'll see.

I would like to think CW is, at the very lest, aware that destroying Earth-89, and/or Earth-Smallville (whatever the number?) is likely to cause a backlash, but yeah, we'll see. With the last CW crossover, Earth-90 was destroyed (1990 Flash John Wesley Shipp), but I think that particular version/series is, honestly, alot less revered than Burton's Batman and the Smallville show. CW could very well take the Walking Dead/Preacher approach and deviate quite a bit from how the original COIE story played out. Might even get a Convergence type of ending where, later, it's revealed the multiverse survived Anti-Monitor's (or Monitor in CW's case) attack.

I read somewhere that the Spectre is actually going to appear in this. That's cool. Always liked the Spectre.